Re: [backstage] Ping...
On Thu, 2011-06-02 at 16:59 +0100, Christopher Woods wrote: Is this list still alive? I'm still here. S'pose a lot of folks were becoming quiet over the Beeb closing most informal feedback mechanisms down. Buggered if I know why... Alex -- Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Ping...
On Thu, 2011-06-02 at 18:16 +0100, Ant Miller wrote: Oh hai, yes, we're still here. Backstage per se isn't though. Much activity at the moment getting a developer network set up and we hope that'll have a connection to this community soon. Fingers crossed, Cool - just to give you a headsup, there's a desire in the Maemo community to see about getting an iPlayer client developed for the Nokia N900... independently. Kinda based on CuteTube... if there are any plans for open API support to be added.. it would be good to hear.. -- Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Iplayer listen again data missing from Frontier, reciva etc
Hi folks. just thought you'd like to know that Frontier and Reciva owners are hacked off again as iplayer listen again metadata is now missing from frontier and rerciva databases... Bujt said progs are on iplayer... Affecting everything from Weds last week...
[backstage] Problems with Listen Again on Frontier Silicon radios
Hi folks, Just using belt and braces... But I had issues playing Pick of the pops and Sounds of the 70s on listen again on my Roberts wifi radio. already filed a problem this morning. programmes would stop 5 mins in. Running potp now, but it's only filled the immediate use buffer, rather than letting the packets come thick and fast - Roberts kit prefers 3 or 4 bars of overflow... this happened once before... Seemed to be a router choking iPlayer playout rather than sending the data out quickly. i run a Stream 83i. thanks alex.
[backstage] With some folks moving on to rd...
... I know that the friends list will still be here, but would there be a back door into rd people like this list? I hope there would be... Cos it's been fun, and productive. Oh... Also, is there any update about getting the n900 whitelisted for the mobile iplayer site? Just wondering...
Re: [backstage] iPlayer playback on Nokia N900s - Maemo project have come up with a new possible workaround
Hi Tim I got your hash, but not the message body... - Original message - -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/10/10 20:03, Alex Cockell wrote: Apparently the N900 is able to handle the Android feeds without hassle. ... or could we just have a non-flash based version? I know one of the iplayer scripts is in testing-devel repository... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMszegAAoJEFGyIhEBWd2JKFMH/1fXZl8+viHA3powe1QZk976 yBe7e/yHQV5RT5AziiyYf/9bQQ5Fego9j4Gypfi6SeMLjNZWMagiVOSY5f1Bk+iE ClHzenyOhLRlwPXnElRAh484rAysV5/jz7XeiSPc3ZoiOjoIaTkKHnKOz4dfbffK VPfQhU7c7B3go92mAC0i7l8oJlIrnjYwq5PPTu8pO4RFRMQMoqJ9IfQwaYAUljVc LQNh1AHf2WUlJfNqBVs+kYKhQoMO2PXqKDpPvdq5w9mgK3MVu/URD5hDAszD6aWr T9VtTN2t1JtbfHHQ42RYov9x3zEygrb0lAoVs+MG4aDj4hQlkbLmptKbvTNMREA= =VsD2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iPlayer playback on Nokia N900s - Maemo project have come up with a new possible workaround
Hi folks, Under the previous version of the iPlayer Flash client, the Nokia N900 was able to play out the streams quite happily if you selected low-bandwidth AND ran in the popout player, enabling you to kill the main window. Since the new one did away with that function, the Maemo community have been trying to wrok around the issue... They've nailed it... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62871 Apparently the N900 is able to handle the Android feeds without hassle. The steps followed were... (quoting from linked thread) Here are the instructions to get iPlayer working on the N900 again... Step 1: Install the application ‘Hide User Agent’ from the N900 Extras-Devel repositories. Step 2: Open the N900 SETTINGS and select under Connectivity the ‘Hide User Agent’. Step 3: Press the 'User Agent' Button, and input the following string without quotes Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-us; Nexus One Build/FRF91) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1 Select Ok and then press Set. Step 4: Restart the Browser and visit http://www.bbc.co.uk/mobile/iplayer Voala the Google Android Low quality flash site working on the N900. Remember if you want to go back to the N900 UserAgent to remove it from the settings menu. -Update 24/09/2010 23:43 - PLEASE NOTE: To Access the Ovi Store webpage you have to switch the user agent back to Maemo My N900 Blog: http://n900critic.blogspot.com/ Last edited by regnighc; 09-25-10 at 08:00 PM. (end quote) I was wondering - does anyone here have the ear of someone in FMT so we could get the 900 added as a legit playout client? Even if it's streaming only? Would put back functionality we used to have... Thoughts? Alex -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
I'm not personally looking for metadata, but it would be great if some of the open-source players were permitted back into the fold, meaning that VLC and the like could play BBC content... Especially for cpu architectures that Adobe don't support. Oh, and be able to distribute said player plugins in Linux distro repositories. And I want to be able to play content on my n900 again. - Original message - Not sure what you're looking for, but all the metadata that iPlayer pages uses to build a programme page is openly accessible http://beebhack.wikia.com/wiki/IPlayer_Metadata It can't not be otherwise the javascript on those pages wouldn't work. On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: it uses some of them, but iplayer it's self is created from them too -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of Mo McRoberts Sent: Wed 9/29/2010 2:52 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 14:23, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: yah the feeds aren't https/firewall protected so i'm guessing no one should mind or at least it'll be a lesson to them if they didn't want folks accessing them If memory serves either the EMP SWF itself or the supporting JS makes use of them, which would require their visibility. I could be wrong, though -- I can't for the life of me recall how I came to believe this to be the case, so I could just be making things up. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
And yet they happily leech off the GNU ecosystem... What changed? Their previous management didn't seem to mind... - Original message - Unlikely. The BBC have gone out of their way to be hostile to open source attempts at using iPlayer content, however you will find working examples and programs for playing iPlayer stuff on pretty much anything on that same wiki. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: I'm not personally looking for metadata, but it would be great if some of the open-source players were permitted back into the fold, meaning that VLC and the like could play BBC content... Especially for cpu architectures that Adobe don't support. Oh, and be able to distribute said player plugins in Linux distro repositories. And I want to be able to play content on my n900 again. - Original message - Not sure what you're looking for, but all the metadata that iPlayer pages uses to build a programme page is openly accessible http://beebhack.wikia.com/wiki/IPlayer_Metadata It can't not be otherwise the javascript on those pages wouldn't work. On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: it uses some of them, but iplayer it's self is created from them too -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of Mo McRoberts Sent: Wed 9/29/2010 2:52 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 14:23, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: yah the feeds aren't https/firewall protected so i'm guessing no one should mind or at least it'll be a lesson to them if they didn't want folks accessing them If memory serves either the EMP SWF itself or the supporting JS makes use of them, which would require their visibility. I could be wrong, though -- I can't for the life of me recall how I came to believe this to be the case, so I could just be making things up. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
And by doing so, they're only pissing off their best viewers - the early adopters. Shooting themselves in the foot when hobbyists only want to *help* - Original message - They've been going out of their way trying to stop unapproved apps grabbing content. They put a lot of effort into making sure content is unavailable to open source systems when simply leaving it as is would mean anyone could write on top of iPlayer. e.g. read the second PDF http://pjakma.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/bbc-response-to-my-iplayer-drm-foi-request/ Open Source gets a mention under meetings with Technology, Piracy and Enforcement ticked in the header of the minutes. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Replace BBC with iPlayer and I'd agree with some of those points, it's more a indifference and lack of care rather than being directly hostile though. And I'd say that will changes rather soon, due to various management changes. Ps since no one's publicly said I can't Here's some really good ref data feeds (ps like all these feeds PROXY-CACHE don't hit feeds directly or you'll kill them) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/service/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/category/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/masterbrand/service_type/tv/id s/service1/ids/sevice2/ eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/service/discoverable_only/1/fo rmat/json Very useful reference feed for ion, ps you guys aren't missing much from not having access to the wiki, it's mainly incomplete, inaccurate or out-of-date. Zap On 30/09/2010 13:15, Iain Wallace ikwall...@gmail.com wrote: Unlikely. The BBC have gone out of their way to be hostile to open source attempts at using iPlayer content, however you will find working examples and programs for playing iPlayer stuff on pretty much anything on that same wiki. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: I'm not personally looking for metadata, but it would be great if some of the open-source players were permitted back into the fold, meaning that VLC and the like could play BBC content... Especially for cpu architectures that Adobe don't support. Oh, and be able to distribute said player plugins in Linux distro repositories. And I want to be able to play content on my n900 again. - Original message - Not sure what you're looking for, but all the metadata that iPlayer pages uses to build a programme page is openly accessible http://beebhack.wikia.com/wiki/IPlayer_Metadata It can't not be otherwise the javascript on those pages wouldn't work. On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: it uses some of them, but iplayer it's self is created from them too -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of Mo McRoberts Sent: Wed 9/29/2010 2:52 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 14:23, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: yah the feeds aren't https/firewall protected so i'm guessing no one should mind or at least it'll be a lesson to them if they didn't want folks accessing them If memory serves either the EMP SWF itself or the supporting JS makes use of them, which would require their visibility. I could be wrong, though -- I can't for the life of me recall how I came to believe this to be the case, so I could just be making things up. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
Not quite the whole story. People intending to pirate material will have no qualms about faking out the iPlayer backend by pretending to be a legit client... While those which simply enable a wider reach onto architectures not directly developed for, and are trying to act in good faith... Are hampered. Again. Only person hurt is the honest viewer. Same as 2Entertain suddenly pushing back the DVD release of Rev. It's already on torrent and on Youtube... But I had it on preorder since episode 2. Feet being shot. Just my comments. - Original message - On 30 Sep 2010, at 17:42, Alex Cockell wrote: And by doing so, they're only pissing off their best viewers - the early adopters. Shooting themselves in the foot when hobbyists only want to *help* The alternative would be aggravating the people who they have license agreements with that let them put the content on the Internet in the first place… which goes somewhat beyond foot shooting. -- David Dorward
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
OK... but please answer me this. What is the process by which a streaming-only plugin for, say, VLC *could* be evaluated and approved.. even though it wasn't written in-house by the Beeb? This is the wall that the devs of Beebplayer and XBMC etc are bashing their heads against. They are trying to do everything in good faith, complying with Geo-IP, time restrictions etc (XBMC's plugin was streaming-only), and they respect the rights issue. If they didn't, they'd simply pretend to be an iPhone and grab the material... BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE DISHONEST! Adobe only offer ia32 Flash for Linux so far - it's still a big lump of spaghetti code.. and there's a big old security hole at the mo... you only have to look at the Internet blog to see the anger that's being caused. The devs are not asking for syndication... they want to write a *client*, that behaves better on specific kit... Also - why shouldn't someone running, say, Gentoo on a SPARC box be locked out? Another viewer, another customer for DVDs later... after compiling the BBC VLC plugin? Also - when it comes ot replacing kit.. I don't want to pay out a whole load - then suddenly find the machine bricked by an update... We HAVE contacted the Trust... Oh - and with the range of architectures being so wide - you have hobbyists out there, who also love the Beeb... On Thu, 2010-09-30 at 17:47 +0100, Anthony McKale wrote: Ok puts on bbc hat, lots of us like open source commit to open source etc etc iPlayer’s a bit of a special case where were often legally bound not to share the files for Rights reasons or even if we do have the rights we have geoip agreements not to share them abroad, then if we do finally have all the above then we have competition issues with competitors getting rather Annoyed when we share things there trying to sell, And at that point I’d advise everyone interested to contact the bbc trust would decides such things, Basically the way to get our video/audio on the web is flash at the moment, when html 5 matures and gets drm maybe we’ll use that or what ever the new kid on the block is, it won’t be my decision that’s for sure Have a look at the work done for radio aunty and such to see excellent ways of embedding flash into your page Ant On 30/09/2010 17:42, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: And by doing so, they're only pissing off their best viewers - the early adopters. Shooting themselves in the foot when hobbyists only want to *help* - Original message - They've been going out of their way trying to stop unapproved apps grabbing content. They put a lot of effort into making sure content is unavailable to open source systems when simply leaving it as is would mean anyone could write on top of iPlayer. e.g. read the second PDF http://pjakma.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/bbc-response-to-my-iplayer-drm-foi-request/ Open Source gets a mention under meetings with Technology, Piracy and Enforcement ticked in the header of the minutes. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Replace BBC with iPlayer and I'd agree with some of those points, it's more a indifference and lack of care rather than being directly hostile though. And I'd say that will changes rather soon, due to various management changes. Ps since no one's publicly said I can't Here's some really good ref data feeds (ps like all these feeds PROXY-CACHE don't hit feeds directly or you'll kill them) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/service/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/category/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/masterbrand/service_type/tv/id s/service1/ids/sevice2/ eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/service/discoverable_only/1/fo rmat/json Very useful reference feed for ion, ps you guys aren't missing much from not having access to the wiki, it's mainly incomplete, inaccurate or out-of-date. Zap On 30/09/2010 13:15, Iain Wallace ikwall...@gmail.com wrote: Unlikely. The BBC have gone out of their way to be hostile to open source attempts at using iPlayer content, however you will find working examples and programs for playing iPlayer stuff on pretty much
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
Syndication? I understand that to be content fed out from a different server architecture. This is a client to talk to BBC gear. Umm - since *when* have you seen an open-source app flooded with ads? Why has it got to be binary only? Why not release under something like the Apache licence, or BSD? That way - at least it can be recompiled onto different architectures. Or have a closed library distributed under something like the BSD licence (allow recompilation by distro suppliers, maybe, but not modification), this presents an LGPL'D API to the media player, presenting selection and transport controls. Basically a plugin. That way - if the local kit isn't quite man enough for the job, but CAN play out H264 and AAC+... It'll save a LOT of money etc in the end.. On Thu, 2010-09-30 at 19:50 +0100, Chris Warren wrote: If a streaming-only client was distributed in binary form (to ensure the software will always only be streaming-only) and keys were sufficiently protected, and NDAs and commercial agreements were signed you might get somewhere. Of course reach, value, etc. would have to be evaluated. However there's an additional point that people often forget is that the BBC has (as any other entity) the need to protect its name and brand. They can't allow one unauthorised client without allowing them all, e.g. if a device manufacturer was to launch a device with their own iPlayer client, (which may for example be plastered with adverts), the BBC would be in the awkward position of allowing some unauthorised clients, but not others. The syndication policy gives the BBC protection against this. Then of course there's the legal position that the BBC would be put in if it were to allow content to be shown on devices that it has not been licensed for. (BTW this doesn't reflect any official stance the BBC may have - just my personal thoughts on the matter.) On 30 Sep 2010, at 19:10, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: OK... but please answer me this. What is the process by which a streaming-only plugin for, say, VLC *could* be evaluated and approved.. even though it wasn't written in-house by the Beeb? This is the wall that the devs of Beebplayer and XBMC etc are bashing their heads against. They are trying to do everything in good faith, complying with Geo-IP, time restrictions etc (XBMC's plugin was streaming-only), and they respect the rights issue. If they didn't, they'd simply pretend to be an iPhone and grab the material... BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE DISHONEST! Adobe only offer ia32 Flash for Linux so far - it's still a big lump of spaghetti code.. and there's a big old security hole at the mo... you only have to look at the Internet blog to see the anger that's being caused. The devs are not asking for syndication... they want to write a *client*, that behaves better on specific kit... Also - why shouldn't someone running, say, Gentoo on a SPARC box be locked out? Another viewer, another customer for DVDs later... after compiling the BBC VLC plugin? Also - when it comes ot replacing kit.. I don't want to pay out a whole load - then suddenly find the machine bricked by an update... We HAVE contacted the Trust... Oh - and with the range of architectures being so wide - you have hobbyists out there, who also love the Beeb... On Thu, 2010-09-30 at 17:47 +0100, Anthony McKale wrote: Ok puts on bbc hat, lots of us like open source commit to open source etc etc iPlayer’s a bit of a special case where were often legally bound not to share the files for Rights reasons or even if we do have the rights we have geoip agreements not to share them abroad, then if we do finally have all the above then we have competition issues with competitors getting rather Annoyed when we share things there trying to sell, And at that point I’d advise everyone interested to contact the bbc trust would decides such things, Basically the way to get our video/audio on the web is flash at the moment, when html 5 matures and gets drm maybe we’ll use that or what ever the new kid on the block is, it won’t be my decision that’s for sure Have a look at the work done for radio aunty and such to see excellent ways of embedding flash into your page Ant On 30/09/2010 17:42, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: And by doing so, they're only pissing off their best viewers - the early adopters. Shooting themselves in the foot when hobbyists only want to *help* - Original message - They've been going out of their way trying to stop unapproved apps grabbing content. They put a lot of effort into making sure content is unavailable to open source systems when simply leaving it as is would mean anyone could write on top of iPlayer. e.g. read
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
Quite. Would be so good if the Beeb were to put their weight behind a GStreamer plugin for their content.. or one that could talk to multiple media players... enabling, say, Mplayer, MythTV, totem, whatever-the-heck-the-user-interface-is to talk to, select, and play content. Fine - stipulate streaming... but not over specific link-layers! Or if it needs to cache all the content - fine.. write out a temporary encrypted file. How about using Octoshape as a model in how it hands off the data to the local playback client? Maybe even offer a CLI that can be scheduled using Cron.. so the material stays encrypted until handoff.. But maybe release the closed library under a source licence similar to, say, OpenMotif. This is under a licence that allows recompilation but not modification. LGPL shim... open clients then talk to it. This is not a hardware device you are talking about - it's to enable the iPlayer service to reach out - And what is this about *specific devices* being licensed? This only restricts you. Device *classes*, I understand... but being kingmakers for specific hardware? Sorry if I'm ranting... On Thu, 2010-09-30 at 21:31 +0200, Richard P Edwards wrote: Yes.. but this list was around before GeoIP, and before the Rights holders had a clue about the internet. Equally, the Trust now. I saw exactly the same things happening with music. Now, twenty years later, some of the music Rights holders have got the plot. What I would like to know is whether anyone inside the BBC is actually educating the similar owners of the content in order for them to see things as I/we do? If no one is, then the pace of technical development and in addition, earning more income in places, is slowed to a snails pace. Best wishes Richard On 30 Sep 2010, at 18:47, Anthony McKale wrote: Ok puts on bbc hat, lots of us like open source commit to open source etc etc iPlayer’s a bit of a special case where were often legally bound not to share the files for Rights reasons or even if we do have the rights we have geoip agreements not to share them abroad, then if we do finally have all the above then we have competition issues with competitors getting rather Annoyed when we share things there trying to sell, And at that point I’d advise everyone interested to contact the bbc trust would decides such things, Basically the way to get our video/audio on the web is flash at the moment, when html 5 matures and gets drm maybe we’ll use that or what ever the new kid on the block is, it won’t be my decision that’s for sure Have a look at the work done for radio aunty and such to see excellent ways of embedding flash into your page Ant On 30/09/2010 17:42, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: And by doing so, they're only pissing off their best viewers - the early adopters. Shooting themselves in the foot when hobbyists only want to *help* - Original message - They've been going out of their way trying to stop unapproved apps grabbing content. They put a lot of effort into making sure content is unavailable to open source systems when simply leaving it as is would mean anyone could write on top of iPlayer. e.g. read the second PDF http://pjakma.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/bbc-response-to-my-iplayer-drm-foi-request/ Open Source gets a mention under meetings with Technology, Piracy and Enforcement ticked in the header of the minutes. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Replace BBC with iPlayer and I'd agree with some of those points, it's more a indifference and lack of care rather than being directly hostile though. And I'd say that will changes rather soon, due to various management changes. Ps since no one's publicly said I can't Here's some really good ref data feeds (ps like all these feeds PROXY-CACHE don't hit feeds directly or you'll kill them) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/service/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/category/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/masterbrand/service_type/tv/id s/service1/ids/sevice2/ eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/service/discoverable_only/1/fo rmat/json Very useful reference feed for ion, ps you guys aren't missing much from not having access to the wiki, it's mainly incomplete, inaccurate or out-of-date. Zap On 30/09/2010 13:15, Iain Wallace ikwall...@gmail.com wrote: Unlikely. The BBC have gone out of their way to be hostile to open source attempts at using iPlayer content, however you will find working examples and programs for playing
RE: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
Ok... Now the Big Question. Asked by Paul Jakma, Dink and LOADS of open source devs... How do FOSS developers get BBC Dev certificates? So that fully legit plugins etc get greenlighted? Also, could this process be made public? And who was the IDIOT who made the decision to lock out independent devs anyway? Sorry, had to rant. - Original message - cough cough for all scheduling info i would recommend /programmes a excellent source of data, and all other projects by the now defunct AM department http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/developers for iplayer there's not really as open focused (tries not to swear but coughs alot) it's uses bbc only system called ion, you can see all the urls it uses restfully using tamperdata, it's not meant to be used by non-bbc but it's a open feed so i'm sure (waits for iplayer folks to disagree) no one would mind if you used it anyone with a bbc dev certs can view them here https://confluence.dev.bbc.co.uk/display/dynamite/ION+feeds otherwise here is a list of urls i would suggest folks look at, and play with... of course as long if one of my iplayer colleagues doesn't stamp on me of course /iplayer/ion/atoz/ /iplayer/ion/tleo/ /iplayer/ion/atoznav/ /iplayer/ion/broadcastdetail /iplayer/ion/categorynav/ /iplayer/ion/categorysplash/ /iplayer/ion/container/ /iplayer/ion/editorial/promotiontimeline/ /iplayer/ion/episodedetail/ /iplayer/ion/episodescant/ /iplayer/widget/episodeplaylist/ /iplayer/ion/featured/ /iplayer/ion/featuredcontent/ /iplayer/ion/idtype /iplayer/ion/lastplayed/ /iplayer/ion/latest/ /iplayer/ion/latestsport/ /iplayer/ion/listview/ /iplayer/ion/masterbrandsplash/ /iplayer/ion/morelikethis/ /iplayer/ion/morelikethislive/ /iplayer/ion/mostpopular/ /iplayer/ion/multinownext/ /iplayer/ion/multischedule/ /iplayer/ion/nownext/ /iplayer/ion/ondemand/change /iplayer/ion/ping/ /iplayer/ion/user/recentlyplayed/ /iplayer/ion/user/mostplayed/ /iplayer/ion/refdata/ /iplayer/ion/schedule/ /iplayer/ion/search/ /iplayer/ion/servicedetail/ /iplayer/ion/serviceplaylist/ /iplayer/ion/showcase/ /iplayer/ion/startswith/ /iplayer/ion/topicality Also excellent bbc bloke http://whomwah.com/ http://whomwah.github.com/radioaunty/ Zap -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of Ant Miller Sent: Tue 9/28/2010 8:14 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] API into iPlayer content Not that I would ever dissuade someone from exercising their democratic rights, but an foi for a technical api is unlikely to get results. There is an effort underway to make the provision of such data more accessible, but don't hold your breath- this is a particularly difficult process given the mix of parties involved, the issue of partners, and the governance of services. We will share progress with this list when we can. An foi won't help us do that. And i doubt it'll help you. Then again, I've been wrong before. ant Sent from my HTC -Original Message- From: Andy stude.l...@googlemail.com Sent: 28 September 2010 18:32 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content On 28 September 2010 12:47, Ant Miller ant.mil...@gmail.com wrote: Can you give me a pointer to the blog post please? There have been some discussions around APIs, but I can't be sure which one you're thinking of, This blog post http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/11/bbc_iplayer_standard_products.html ( http://tinyurl.com/yhanpx8 ) makes reference to defining an API for accessing media resources by third parties. It is nearly a year old though. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: Anyone heard whether this api is to be made open? Also whether it might be straight H264 and aac? Just that I would like to be able to watch content on my 900 again... You can probably make a Freedom of Information request for the API, either via http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/new/32 or directly to the BBC via: f...@bbc.co.uk The BBC may refuse it but must specify a reason, except in specific circumstances. Is the bbc starting to see sense? We can hope, but I wouldn't recommend holding your breath. Andy -- $ fortune bug, n: A son of a glitch. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
- Original message - On 29 Sep 2010, at 12:23, Mo McRoberts wrote: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:18, Andrew Bowden andrew.bow...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Well BBC dev certs tend to give the holder huge amounts of access over our internal wikis, bug tracking systems and more! So don't take it personally! I think the question Alex is gunning for is: What is the process by which an independent developer gains authorised access for their software or hardware product (be it commercial, freeware, open source, free software, or whatever) to iPlayer feeds _and_ content? (the dev cert issue is a bit of a red herring, unless it's a prerequisite of the above, which would be silly, wouldn't it?) Dev certs are indeed a bit of a red herring - they're what you need to access the extranet-style wikis, repositories etc that the BBC uses to collaborate with external developers under NDA, but the whole system's been set up for something conceptually completely different to what Alex wants. I suspect the NDA bit would be troublesome for FOSS developers for starters. I suspect that there is currently no way for third parties to get access to iPlayer *content* without providing satisfactory guarantees that the content will only be used in certain specific ways. I also suspect that *by definition*, a FOSS application cannot provide those guarantees. Result: impasse, and repeated heated discussions on the Backstage list about whether enabling FOSS clients is better or worse for the average license-fee payer than keeping rights-holders happy, etc. I'm not really addressing the issue of independent developers of proprietary software here, obviously. Oh, and don't forget a lot of us screaming at Nick et al, with some of the blandishments he comes out with, over on the bbcinternet blog. The problem is we seem to have no-clue lawyers deciding on classes of kit which feeds into planned obsolescence etc... And thee latest comments over there are particularly pertinent when big-ticket purchases are planned in the middle of a recession. I need a new tv, but will it support iplayer out of the box? And nobody can answer that. All of this standing in the way of kit reuse and re-spec... And all because Dink managed to reuse an old Xbox to play out iplayer content initially for his kid... Then released the code... As I said over on the blogs, it was the indepedent developers of the time that moved radio tech on from big valve receivers... While using 2LO as a feed.
[backstage] API into iPlayer content
Hi all, There was comment on a recently highlghted blog entry which was talking about all the multiple onboard players that abount on different tv devices. Mention was made of a media API. Anyone heard whether this api is to be made open? Also whether it might be straight H264 and aac? Just that I would like to be able to watch content on my 900 again... Is the bbc starting to see sense?
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
Title was BBC iPlayer standard products on tv platforms. Mine is the 36th comment - Original message - Hi Alex, Can you give me a pointer to the blog post please? There have been some discussions around APIs, but I can't be sure which one you're thinking of, a On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.ukwrote: Hi all, There was comment on a recently highlghted blog entry which was talking about all the multiple onboard players that abount on different tv devices. Mention was made of a media API. Anyone heard whether this api is to be made open? Also whether it might be straight H264 and aac? Just that I would like to be able to watch content on my 900 again... Is the bbc starting to see sense? -- Ant Miller tel: 07709 265961 email: ant.mil...@gmail.com
RE: [backstage] 'Project Canvas' to be called 'YouView':
It's more the you will not attempt to reverse-engineer, decompile... Etc etc bit. When the guts are all FOSS - Original message - Yeah, and I *love* the way that the jv is kicking the foss community in the teeth over tc... The least they could do is give something back! Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they got to make the source code available? I've already been on the phone to them about possibly opening the stack so homebrew kit could receive and make use of the environment... The foss community could even help. This bit? All copyright, trade marks, design rights, patents and other intellectual property rights (registered and unregistered) in and on YouView.com and YouView Content belong to YouView and/or YouView’s licensors. Please respect copyright. If they intend for that to cover the entirety of FOSS contribs, that's particularly cold. Not a fan of what's being done there at all. What I dislike almost as much is this revelation in that previously linked article: The seven partners in the project have each committed to contribute £4.5 million per year over the next four years to fund the platform, much of which will be spent on marketing. It doesn't need marketing to death, it needs a rock solid, intelligently designed and truly innovative UI and 'experience' (getting floaty now) to make it stand out from the noise. This project needs to excel and I fear it won't if much of the funding from the various parties ends up being spent on bus adverts and stupid Flash banners. They need to put their money in, leave it to experts to come up with the innovations and then let it simmer instead of hawk it and each want a piece of the pie (to the inevitable detriment of the entire project). Also WeView was a poor choice of name don't ye think? From a syllabic approach (sorry, I'm a linguist), TV is just about universal. SeeSaw wasn't great but still has some cross-linguistic compatibility. We and View can be quite complex syllables to pronounce if you don't speak much English and it evokes existing brands too much (Wii, Freeview etc). WeV just sounds stupid if you use the abbreviated form. (Would it become 'watching the Welly'?) Everybody's just going to call it on demand anyway, if they don't stick with Canvas... I quite like Canvas, particularly the concepts it evokes (plus it's a good name to 'say')
Re: [backstage] 'Project Canvas' to be called 'YouView':
http://www.youview.com/terms-and-conditions/ Clauses 3.2.2, clause 5 (esp where the code is open source), clause 10. Basically it would appear that the jv are trying to close what was previously open. Also, I don't like the bit in the tech docs about updates failing silently. - Original message - On 20 Sep 2010, at 14:37, Alex Cockell wrote: It's more the you will not attempt to reverse-engineer, decompile... Etc etc bit. Link? S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] 'Project Canvas' to be called 'YouView':
Agreed. So do you think it'll just be a case of 'watch this space' re licences in the final spec? Annoys the hell out of me that the Beeb seem to have forgotten about the enthusiasts with this obsession with locking everything down. Just changing tack for a sec... An open maint list for iPlayer clients would be good... And a GPL API would help... Same for Youview... - Original message - On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 16:09, Andrew Bowden andrew.bow...@bbc.co.uk wrote: People have been saying that for years. My favourite are the terms that say you have to have a licence to link to their site. Amongst my pet hates are the sites which cheerfully note that you don't need a licence to link to them (because although well-meaning, it serves to legitimise the stance of the above). - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HDCP RIP
*hysterical laughter* - Original message - More on this story: http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20016756-245.html On 15 September 2010 08:30, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 01:38, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: On 14 September 2010 17:12, Ant Miller ant.mil...@gmail.com wrote: For all it's flaws I think there was a decent model at the heart of it. It did describe a model of media use that made sense, that described the reasonable expectations of use of the ordinary user, and the ... oh, no wait, I'm thinking of something else. At least the BBC didn't waste any time and money on HDCP being selectively enabled on Freeview HD devices. Oh wait, I'm thinking of something else too. You're forgetting Freesat. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] 'Project Canvas' to be called 'YouView':
Yeah, and I *love* the way that the jv is kicking the foss community in the teeth over tc... Who fucking WROTE gstreamer, the kernel and 95 percent of the code in the platform? The least they could do is give something back! Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they got to make the source code available? I've already been on the phone to them about possibly opening the stack so homebrew kit could receive and make use of the environment... The foss community could even help. - Original message - http://informitv.com/news/2010/09/16/youviewisconfirmed/ Personally, I think 'WeView' would have been a better follow-on from 'iPlayer' and 'YouTube'. But that might suggest open collaboration and public participation, so perhaps not. :-/ -- Frank Wales [fr...@limov.com] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HDCP RIP
Oh, you mean like the Macrovision ones? What is needed next is for the Beeb's management to get a clue re the difference between someone redistributing ontent on their own streaming servers And open source selfwritten playback clients. Pisses me off no end that I have to struggle with the website on my N900, and yet its little brother has an app... Why don't the management unsderstand that the foss community WANT TO HELP?! - Original message - On 15 September 2010 08:30, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 01:38, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: On 14 September 2010 17:12, Ant Miller ant.mil...@gmail.com wrote: For all it's flaws I think there was a decent model at the heart of it. It did describe a model of media use that made sense, that described the reasonable expectations of use of the ordinary user, and the ... oh, no wait, I'm thinking of something else. At least the BBC didn't waste any time and money on HDCP being selectively enabled on Freeview HD devices. Oh wait, I'm thinking of something else too. You're forgetting Freesat. I'm wondering how long it is before you can get a HDCP elimination dongle for less than a tenner. I'm guessing there's a factory in China onto it already. Don't you just love it when us anti-DRM people turn out to be right. Again. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
I agree with you entirely, Paul. Btw, did folks here see my recent posts to the gets even better and scaling blogs? http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/09/bbc_iplayer_gets_even_better.html - mine are near the bottom. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/07/scaling_the_bbc_iplayer_to_han.html - mine has been the last post on that one for a while. And who said that a more complex design was more fun anyway? Especially when it breaks usability... - Original message - On Tue, 14 Sep 2010, Andrew Bowden wrote: It should work. But not everything will work. The EPG probably won't, nor the Now and Next. You're unlikely to get traditional teletext. And if you're German, you won't get the menus in German. As a German would you buy a UK set top box? As a Brit would you buy a German set top box? The problem is more fundamental than this. The problem is that the free market likely will be throttled even *within the UK* by Canvas. We don't have sufficient plans/specs yet to say for sure, but given prior history wrt the BBCs' actions with iPlayer there is strong cause to worry that Canvas will be locked down and that all 3rd party applications will require some kind of approval by a centralised body before being allowed general access to the device. This inherently implies a stifling of the market. Whereas before, where the BBC broadcast a signal according to some public standard and where many device makers independently innovated and built devices to receive/display that signal, with Canvas there is a very clear risk that a very small number of organisations will have rubber-stamping power over which device and software makers do and do not get access. Despite the fact I respect the BBC and the people within it, and that I believe they are good people working in good faith for the public benefit, I can not believe that it is ever a good idea to centralise the process for access to a markets (other than for very limited regulatory reasons such as to enforce safety regs or provide arbitration services). Let device makers remain able to innovate independently. In practical terms, I want to remain able to buy cheap Chinese (or whatever) TV electronics - where those devices are built to support a number of global standards, and the vendors do not have the ability to co-ordinate crypto keys, etc.. with some UK specific body. NB: Reply-to is set to both my personal address and the list address. Not sure if all list software or MUAs handle that appropriately. Please check addresses on any reply. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: Hope is a good breakfast, but it is a bad supper. -- Francis Bacon - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HDCP RIP
Yeah, but in the meantime HWAAAH HWAAH HWAAH!!! *HYSTERICAL LAUGHTER* Alex - Original message - On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 15:31, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Seems like that very silly almost-content-protection system HDCP is no more... http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/hdcp-master-key-supposedly-released-unlocks-hdtv-copy-protect/ Fear not! I'm sure HDCP+ will be along soon to save us from ourselves. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
Anyone else notice the similarity between the OSC's position and that held by Clive Sinclair and Chris Curry back when rhe Beeb were backing the NewBrain? - Original message - http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-canvas-complaint-5-comes-from-open-source-software-fans/ The OSC is a small body, with 23 members from small development and consultancy firms, and it’s objection is largely philosophical - that Canvas isn’t “open” in the same way Unix and Linux lovers regard “open”. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Accordingly, Project Canvas should all the application programme interfaces (“API”s) and use and publish unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas ready” client solutions on any platform. Personally, I believe the BBC is breaking the Law, and have complained to the OFT (twice) and the BBC (twice) via their web form which has on both occasions lost my complaint. Bizarrely, the OFT does not consider my complaint important enough to pursue, when it has international and nation implications. To quote the OSC. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Project Canvas in its current form is going to lead to the BBC having unprecedented influence in the market for computer hardware and software. It would appear complaints from the public are to be dismissed by 'The Powers That Be'. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
I'd also say they've done the same with the iPlayer client. If they opened it up, it could be running on pretty mujch anything within months. - Original message - http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-canvas-complaint-5-comes-from-open-source-software-fans/ The OSC is a small body, with 23 members from small development and consultancy firms, and it’s objection is largely philosophical - that Canvas isn’t “open” in the same way Unix and Linux lovers regard “open”. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Accordingly, Project Canvas should all the application programme interfaces (“API”s) and use and publish unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas ready” client solutions on any platform. Personally, I believe the BBC is breaking the Law, and have complained to the OFT (twice) and the BBC (twice) via their web form which has on both occasions lost my complaint. Bizarrely, the OFT does not consider my complaint important enough to pursue, when it has international and nation implications. To quote the OSC. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Project Canvas in its current form is going to lead to the BBC having unprecedented influence in the market for computer hardware and software. It would appear complaints from the public are to be dismissed by 'The Powers That Be'. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas specs
On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 19:29 +0100, Mo McRoberts wrote: Nobody else has mentioned it here, so I might as well. In case you've not seen already, *some* of the Canvas specs have been released. They date back to May, so look like some of the ones which were circulated to DTG members back then which Robert Andrews from pc:UK failed to get disclosed, but might be out of date in some areas by now :) There's some vaguely interesting stuff in there, though. http://www.projectcanvas.info/index.cfm/technology/technical-documents/ M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ Thanks.. but why are they being so bloody anal about not being able to patch this into the aux connector on a sound system? Analogue ports being excluded? Bastards... -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas specs
but what about plugging the box into my hifi to get better sound? Don't they think of that aspect? Or is that more the Beeb I remember from a few years ago? - Original message - On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 21:54, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: Thanks.. but why are they being so bloody anal about not being able to patch this into the aux connector on a sound system? Analogue ports being excluded? Bastards... ’cos you might record the audio, and that would somehow be bad. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas specs
Oh bloody terrific! Not only did I lose playback capability off iplayer on my n900, due to the popout+low-bw workaround being taken away (check the iplayer *cough* better thread)... When they could easily recompile their n97 client for Maemo or offer a lite version... Or back out the change... Oh, also... Did you notice that bit in the canvas specs where they specifically said NOT to tell the user what was going on as an update applied? Great, something potentially bricks my pvr without telling me what is going on? What idiots are making the decisions nowadays? - Original message - On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 00:58, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: but what about plugging the box into my hifi to get better sound? Don't they think of that aspect? Or is that more the Beeb I remember from a few years ago? From what I know, and have been told from people in an assortment of capacities, what this boils down to is... this isn't just the BBC. (And I don't mean the ever-present rightsholders, either -- the other JV partners have just as much input into the specs [in theory] as the BBC does). M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Trust approves Project Canvas ...
Yeah, but would that include the Mythtv project and other open source projects? Would the Linux community be able to build their own gear? And have access to everything? For instance, will there be scope for, say, a Canvas pvr to save out to a NAS frame on the local network? I don't renmember having to find 5 grand to look at the PAL definition... - Original message - Mo McRoberts wrote: Without the Canvas UX, you're not permitted to access any Canvas content. 4.62. Further, the Trust understood that, since the core technical specification for Canvas would be published, it would be open to manufacturers and platform operators either to adopt the Canvas core technical specification and the UI or (if they preferred) to develop their own UI with the Canvas core technical specification. 4.72. One stakeholder asked for clarification as to whether fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory access would be available to all industry operators - that is including manufacturers, not just platform operators. The Trust confirms that its understanding of the open nature of the core technical specification is such that it shall be available to all industry operators including manufacturers. The Trust expects the fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory principle to apply to all those seeking to license the core technical specification. 4.74. Approval is made on the understanding that the Canvas joint venture will be governed by the following principles: * the Canvas core technical specification will be made available to third parties on a fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory basis; and http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/our_work/canvas/canvas_conclusions.pdf I am still reading the above document. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Trust approves Project Canvas ...
- Original message - Kieran Kunhya wrote: No, this is what I'd expect the BBC to do. It serves the public when market-based squabbles over alternative technological platforms don't happen, and everyone just gets on with innovating atop a good-enough platform, rather than frittering away consumers' time and money by playing platform argy-bargy. Of course, this makes other broadcaster's jobs easier, but that's a good thing; the harder it is for them to develop something, the more they'll want to control what they developed. Relieving them of that burden is to everyone's benefit, not just theirs. It's unlikely such a wide group of companies would ever reach a consensus otherwise without the BBC. Exactly. Markets aren't very good at arriving at a new platform from a standing start, largely due to company boards treating technological platforms as a strategic asset when they get the chance. Hence, HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray, VHS versus Betamax, or, for those old enough to remember, AC mains versus DC mains, or broad gauge versus standard gauge. As Joel Birnbaum (former HP Labs director) noted: standardizing the mains socket enables enormous innovations on either side of it, rather than constant arguing about what shape the pins should be. If the BBC can help take the debate about a platform's 'shape' off the table, it allows everyone to concentrate on building stuff on that platform, which can only be a service to the public. As long as the possibility of an open-source implementation remains. Which is quite concerning at present. One should be able to build a Canvas receiver from *public* specs ultimately. The scale of lockdown is quigte worrying at the mo. Also inprove some of the diagnostics...
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
Now, if the bbc would consider rolling out a library like this under the LGPL One of these for the epg, but release the source under a bsd-like licence to distro suppliers so they can compile to tgt architectures and release through Partner-type repos... Use that as a proof of concept for a Universal iPlayer Plugin for Totem, VLC, native players... Well, I can dream, can't I... - Original message - On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:30, Adam Bradley a...@doublegeek.com wrote: But the BBC would require as part of the download agreement that you had appropriate content management on the device, wouldn't they? I would be very surprised if that wasn't part of the T C's, but then it's not much different from how Last.fm's T C's state that you won't use their API to write software that downloads their radio streams. While there's nothing really stopping people from violating the TCs that they agreed to, there's also little to stop people from illicitly cracking the system anyway. If there's a legal way to get the tables then at least there's a way for people to play along with the system as opposed to having to go down the illicit route from the get go. Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management
The group of licence fee payers who have been affected by all this lockdown is larger than you realise, Nick. And they're also early adopters as well. For instance, my Nokia N900 may have Flash 9.4 on board, but i'm sure unadorned streams woukld play out better. I run Ubuntu on an Atom netbook. If the Beeb rolled out a plugin as well as their Flash client, as in one that fed into vlc, xbmc or whatever, it would be good press all around. Just feels like loads of kicks in the teeth. - Original message - The BBC had a choice a) do nothing and run the risk of content not be available to licence fee payers b) do something which does achieve the desired effect and has a very small negative impact on a very small group of people if indeed it has any negative effect at all From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Adam Bradley Sent: 15 June 2010 15:14 To: backstage Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: the BBC had a choice: a) do nothing b) do something which didn't achieve the desired effect, and caused additional negative effects it chose (b), because the rights-holders threw their toys out of the pram. now, either this is because the people who know that this is the case couldn't make themselves heard, or because stopping piracy wasn't the goal in the first place. which is it? This is an interesting question, because I can't see what the goal here is from the BBC. Did they genuinely believe the rights-holders' bluff? Adam
Re: [backstage] Re: get_iplayer 2.77 release (was Re: [backstage] get_iplayer dropped in response to BBC’s lack of support for open source)
Hi folks, Considering it's now being handled here - do we have anyone with any clout as to getting get_iplayer supported officially? Just thinking that there is precedent for a download/streaming engine separate to playback client - just look toward the EBU... :) Watching with interest... Alex -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iPlayer and Nokia N900
Hi folks, Any idea when or if the N900 could have a native iPlayer client? Just that Flash is VERY sluggish... Also - has there been any update on how alternative clients could be evaluated for whitelisting? Just that there is a massive open-source community out there... and I for one would love to be able to use high-def on Intel Atom-based kit running Ubuntu... to catch iPlayer stuff... XBMC would be good to finally get running - how about the Beeb review the source code... and work with Dink and all that... get it reinstated? -- Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iPlayer and open source
Hi folks, Re the genuine, honest users being hurt by all this DRM nonsense.. *waves hand* I would LOVE to be able to play iPlayer stuff in Totem (th ehigh-quality streams)- why on earth are the Beeb management making it so difficult for their customers? -- Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] TODAY: Digital Economy Bill Flashmob, 5pm [Manchester]
I'm hoping they'll do the right thing and kill the bill. Alex - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] TODAY: Digital Economy Bill Flashmob, 5pm [Manchester]
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 22:00 +0100, Fearghas McKay wrote: Nope - just voted to send it to the committee stage tomorrow. Umm - does that mean we've lost? That all we can look forward to is paying through the nose for absolutely everything? And the only route I have as a Linux user is to humbly ask any media supplier to make material available in a form I can do stuff with? -- Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
