Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

September 30th? Oh no, not again. This all means I'll have had to retune my mother's TV and Freeview DVD recorder no fewer than four times within five weeks. She lives within the Carmel transmitter area, for which the dates were/are: August 26th (DSO1) September 9th (S4C moved to Mux B, Wales-wid

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

On a side bar, the estimable @nevali is doing lovely work on an IPTV interface, incluing a far nicer Freeview logo! http://emberapp.com/nevali/images/services-menu a On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Andrew Bowden wrote: >> Brian Butterworth wrote: >> > I thought we were talking about FreeVIEW H

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

> Brian Butterworth wrote: > > I thought we were talking about FreeVIEW HD. Freesat is named the > > same, Freesat+ is the PVR, Freesat HD is the HD service, > > Freesat+ HD is the PVR with HD > We were talking about Freeview, however if it follows the > same conventions as Freesat then Freevie

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

What tosh. 2009/9/18 Tom Morris > On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 18:19, Brian Butterworth > wrote: > > BUT > > The plus denotes a PVR > > and two letter > > denote HD > > There's no wonder 8% of the public think the TVL pays for ITV > > Well, we've got: > > * Internet > * Internet+ - lets you save fil

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

I totally agree about the Freeview logo. When I was a kid you could get Cooper Black[1] in Boots The Chemist dry transfer lettering (poor man's Letraset). Everytime I see it I just think of the "layouts" I did at school using a typewriter (before the school has a printer) and Cooper Black. I'

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 18:19, Brian Butterworth wrote: > BUT > The plus denotes a PVR > and two letter > denote HD > There's no wonder 8% of the public think the TVL pays for ITV Well, we've got: * Internet * Internet+ - lets you save files! * Internet HD - appears in high resolution * Internet

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 15:54, Brian Butterworth wrote: > Once again, Freeview+ is the PVR, Freeview HD is the HD service > > I know that, I was requoting Ant's minor slipup of using Freeview+ for FreeviewHD

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Ant, I totally agree about the Freeview logo. When I was a kid you could get Cooper Black[1] in Boots The Chemist dry transfer lettering (poor man's Letraset). Everytime I see it I just think of the "layouts" I did at school using a typewriter (before the school has a printer) and Cooper Black.

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

To be honest I saw a lot of confusing presentation of logos in the DVB-T2 presentation at IBC. It's a personal point but I happen to think the Freeview logo is an absolute dog of design, and all the + and HD tack ons are awful. Still waddo I know?! a On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Brian Butte

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

BUT The plus denotes a PVR and two letter denote HD There's no wonder 8% of the public think the TVL pays for ITV 2009/9/18 Gareth Davis > > Brian Butterworth wrote: > > I thought we were talking about FreeVIEW HD. Freesat is named the > same, Freesat+ is the PVR, Freesat HD is the HD servi

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Brian Butterworth wrote: > I thought we were talking about FreeVIEW HD. Freesat is named the same, Freesat+ is the PVR, Freesat HD is the HD service, Freesat+ HD is the PVR with HD We were talking about Freeview, however if it follows the same conventions as Freesat then Freeview+ can mean HD t

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

I thought we were talking about FreeVIEW HD. Freesat is named the same, Freesat+ is the PVR, Freesat HD is the HD service, Freesat+ HD is the PVR with HD... 2009/9/18 Gareth Davis > Brian Butterworth wrote: > > > Once again, Freeview+ is the PVR, Freeview HD is the HD service > > As an asid

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Brian Butterworth wrote: > Once again, Freeview+ is the PVR, Freeview HD is the HD service As an aside, the two types of Freesat receiver we have in the office are marked Freesat HD and Freesat+. But the Freesat+ box does HD as well as PVR. -- Gareth Davis | Production Systems Specialist

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Once again, Freeview+ is the PVR, Freeview HD is the HD service 2009/9/18 Scot McSweeney-Roberts > > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 01:01, Mr I Forrester wrote: > >> On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 22:04 +0100, Scot McSweeney-Roberts wrote: >> >> > >> > I think that there's going to be a lot of unhappy free

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 01:01, Mr I Forrester wrote: > On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 22:04 +0100, Scot McSweeney-Roberts wrote: > > > > > I think that there's going to be a lot of unhappy freeview HDTV owners > > wondering why the TV they have recently bought isn't picking up the > > new HD channels when

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

It's not really being "converted". The Freeview HD services are a cease and re-provide. After switch-over the multiplexes are known as BBCA, D3+4, BBCB, SDN, ARQA and ARQB or PSB1, PSB2, PSB3, COM4, COM5 and COM6 (plus the MEN mux in Manchester). 2009/9/18 Simon Thompson > Poor choice of word

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Yup, my bad. In my defense, it's all a bit complex, and the slides I saw didn't make the distinction clear. Still and all, to get back to the original thread subject, I've seen no sign of a broadcast flag or even CPCM being shoe horned into either the DSO or HD roll out. a On Fri, Sep 18, 2009

Re: [backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

Simon, I might be wrong, but I'm sure that when you put in the parameters that are being used in the UK for DVB-T2 you get 30Mbps of post-error corrected data. It's quite possible that they have changed the parameters to provide 36Mbps, but my understanding was that 30Mbps is what you will get to

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Poor choice of words by me. Multiplex B is having the SD channels removed from it and is being converted to MPEG4 part 10 and DVB-T2 to allow HD channels to be transmitted. 2009/9/18 Brian Butterworth > Multiplex B aka PSB3 aka BBCB is not VACATED by the BBC, BBC FTV Ltd still > owns the multip

Re: [backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

Last time I checked the Blue book it didn't mention bitrates: http://www.dvb.org/technology/standards/a122r1.tm3980r7.DVB-T2.pdf And the last time I saw the chairman of the DVB-T2 technical module speaking he mentioned 36 Mbps: 2009/9/18 Brian Butterworth > Wikipedia is wrong (that's a supris

Re: [backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

On Fri, 2009-09-18 at 09:54 +0100, Frankie Roberto wrote: > ... > If only I could stream BBC iPlayer direct to my TV via my Apple TV > box, I wouldn't really ever need a Freeview HD box. I have created an iPlayer streaming proxy for Unix/Linux/OSX/Win32 to do just this. Not actually tried it with

Re: [backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

Wikipedia is wrong (that's a suprise). The carrying capacity is 30Mbps, according to the specification. 2009/9/18 Simon Thompson > 30 Mbps is a bit of a low estimate for T2. > > Wikipedia suggests at least 35. > > 2009/9/18 Brian Butterworth > > Briefly, DVB-T2 uses MPEG4 delivered in a 30Mbps

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Multiplex B aka PSB3 aka BBCB is not VACATED by the BBC, BBC FTV Ltd still owns the multiplex. It is being used for Freeview HD carrying three (soon four) public service HD channels. 2009/9/17 Simon Thompson > Ofcom is going to use Multiplex B (vacated by the BBC) to provide DVB-T2 HD > servic

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Please see http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051316 and http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051377 and (for dates) http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=11

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Freeview+ is the name of the Freeview PVR/DVR. Freeview HD will be called, Freeview HD. 2009/9/17 Ant Miller > Freeview and freeview+ (as the DVB-T2 carried HD mux is to be called) > will exist in parallel- the number of muxes will drop from 6 to 5, one > will go to DVB-t2, the other 4 will up

Re: [backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

30 Mbps is a bit of a low estimate for T2. Wikipedia suggests at least 35. 2009/9/18 Brian Butterworth > Briefly, DVB-T2 uses MPEG4 delivered in a 30Mbps (compare 18Mbps and 24Mps) > multiplex using 256QAM (compared with 16QAM and 64QAM) with LDPC/BCH error > correction (not FEC) and 32k carri

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

> Cynically, who wants to guess what proportion of "HD Ready" TV owners > a) think they're already watching HD content on Freeview Probably a similar amount to those who have boxes set to 4:3 centre cut out, which is then stretched to 16:9 by their TV :( - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discus

[backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

2009/9/17 Brendan Quinn > Alan wrote: > > I assume my topfield HD will be out of date with these proposed > > changes? > > Ant replied: > > You'll need to retune, but the services you currently get on Freeview > > should still be available. Think of Freeview + as an optional > > upgrade. > > To

[backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

Briefly, DVB-T2 uses MPEG4 delivered in a 30Mbps (compare 18Mbps and 24Mps) multiplex using 256QAM (compared with 16QAM and 64QAM) with LDPC/BCH error correction (not FEC) and 32k carriers (compare 2k and 8k). http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051377 Basically, this is not a software

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

On 18/09/2009, Mr I Forrester wrote: > On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 22:04 +0100, Scot McSweeney-Roberts wrote: > > > > > I think that there's going to be a lot of unhappy freeview HDTV owners > > wondering why the TV they have recently bought isn't picking up the > > new HD channels when they're laun

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 15:50 +0100, Christopher Woods wrote: > Moreover, you just *know* that within months of any broadcast flag > implementation, the more creative technological tinkerers will have > subverted the flag entirely using commonplace/free equipment and > software. Like region coding, b

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

I think that there's going to be a lot of unhappy freeview HDTV owners wondering why the TV they have recently bought isn't picking up the new HD channels when they're launched (especially as the TV was probably sold as "HD Ready"). Prime opportunity to flog another STB / CAM to correctly d

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 22:04 +0100, Scot McSweeney-Roberts wrote: > > I think that there's going to be a lot of unhappy freeview HDTV owners > wondering why the TV they have recently bought isn't picking up the > new HD channels when they're launched (especially as the TV was > probably sold as "H

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 17:29, Ant Miller wrote: > > Keeping audiences happy as DSO happens and Freeview+ rolls out is a > critical task, I think that there's going to be a lot of unhappy freeview HDTV owners wondering why the TV they have recently bought isn't picking up the new HD channels wh

Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

Alan wrote: > I assume my topfield HD will be out of date with these proposed > changes? Ant replied: > You'll need to retune, but the services you currently get on Freeview > should still be available. Think of Freeview + as an optional > upgrade. To which Alun wrote: > I meant in terms of t

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

I don't know the topfield box, but it's unlikely it can decode the new carrier mode. h.264 it might be able to handle, but it would be a surprise. So no, the HD will need a new box. Optional upgrade, not a free upgrade! Though the broadcast service will remain free to air. a On Thu, Sep 17, 2

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

I meant in terms of the HD element if they are changing the spec? If there is a decryption requirement I doubt the Topfield will have it? On 17 Sep 2009, at 17:52, "Ant Miller" wrote: You'll need to retune, but the services you currently get on Freeview should still be available. Think o

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

You'll need to retune, but the services you currently get on Freeview should still be available. Think of Freeview + as an optional upgrade. a On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Alun Rowe wrote: > I assume my topfield HD will be out of date with these proposed changes? > -- Ant Miller tel: 0

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Ant Miller wrote: > Freeview and freeview+ (as the DVB-T2 carried HD mux is to be > called) will exist in parallel- the number of muxes will drop > from 6 to 5, one will go to DVB-t2, the other 4 will up their > capacity with a little tweak and reshuffled channels from the > flipped mux will b

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Ofcom is going to use Multiplex B (vacated by the BBC) to provide DVB-T2 HD services. First region on air is Granada later this year. 2009/9/17 Alun Rowe > > Will we ever see HD freeview though? The bandwidth requirement would be > enormous. > > > On 17 Sep 2009, at 16:53, "Frankie Roberto"

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

I assume my topfield HD will be out of date with these proposed changes?

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Freeview and freeview+ (as the DVB-T2 carried HD mux is to be called) will exist in parallel- the number of muxes will drop from 6 to 5, one will go to DVB-t2, the other 4 will up their capacity with a little tweak and reshuffled channels from the flipped mux will be shared around them. The New mu

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Will we ever see HD freeview though? The bandwidth requirement would be enormous. On 17 Sep 2009, at 16:53, "Frankie Roberto" wrote: 2009/9/17 Christopher Woods Moreover, you just *know* that within months of any broadcast flag implementation, the more creative technological tinke

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

2009/9/17 Christopher Woods Moreover, you just *know* that within months of any broadcast flag > implementation, the more creative technological tinkerers will have > subverted the flag entirely using commonplace/free equipment and software. > Like region coding, broadcast flags really are an ex

RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Moreover, you just *know* that within months of any broadcast flag implementation, the more creative technological tinkerers will have subverted the flag entirely using commonplace/free equipment and software. Like region coding, broadcast flags really are an exercise in stupidity and corporate bac

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

2009/9/17 Frankie Roberto > > It's worth noting that this applies ONLY to HD DTV (Freeview), which barely > even exists yet. > > So don't throw away your Freeview boxes just yet. I can't see a switchover > from Freeview to Freeview HD happening any time soon... > This is some interesting specula

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

2009/9/16 Brian Butterworth > > BBC wants to put DRM on the TV Brits are forced to pay for > It's worth noting that this applies ONLY to HD DTV (Freeview), which barely even exists yet. So don't throw away your Freeview boxes just

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

Rupert Watson wrote: At a guess it is the parties that paid large sums of money to acquire or create the "content". Boingboing seemed to think it was a DRM consortium that had prompted the move. Sent from my dog Loving it, wish my dog could answer email for me! - Sent via the backstage.

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/09/15/bbc-wants-to-put-drm.html BBC wants to put DRM on the TV Brits are forced to pay for 2009/9/16 Rupert Watson > At a guess it is the parties that paid large sums of money to acquire or > create the "content". > Ah, those lovely people at PACT. > > Sent from

Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

At a guess it is the parties that paid large sums of money to acquire or create the "content". Sent from my dog On 16 Sep 2009, at 07:52, "Brian Butterworth" wrote: I was going to post about this when I saw the original document, but I'm ashamed to say I didn't get around to it, so here