The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Oh Susan, please don't destroy my last illusion!!!
-Original Message-
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2013 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I'm a Germanic, neo-Duns-Scotian glutton.
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2013 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I really should study the implications of this. New religious movements,
religions founded in the eighteenth century or later, and their relationship to
post conventional morality.
Baha'i Faith, Cao Dai, Cheondogyo, Tenrikyo, Wicca, Sekai Kyuseikyo, Seicho-
No-Ie,
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan,
I think only Indonesia is such a Muslim state. All other Muslim states impose
Islamic law on all people there, regardless of their actual religious beliefs.
India is another state that has religious law that varies depending upon the
religion of the person.
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
To put it in Brian Patrick Mitchell terms, which he views as better than the
system were using. If I Amy go out on a limb and categorize you views as either
Paleo-libertarian or Paleo-conservative. You're definitely Paleo, but it's hard
to specify which.
In 2006,
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The articles show the relationship between religion and morality and ethics.
Why should non- Bahai's take Baha'i morality and ethics over all else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality_and_religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_religion
Sent from my iPad
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is
based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to
specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is
based on authority and
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I forgot to include specific religious ethics. Note, Scientology and Wicca are
good examples of the hypothesis. The Baha'i Faith and Religious Humanism
are good examples as well.
The Declaration Toward a Global Ethic[34] from the Parliament of the World’s
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Things
like adoption and marriage are private contracts and the government has no
reason to interfere is the standard Libertarian Right argument.
I would largely agree with that except that in the case of adoption
the 'contract' involves a party unable to speak up
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Because Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah has given us God's most recent
revelation.
On 04/18/2013 12:16 PM, Stephen Kent Gray wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The articles show the relationship between religion and morality and
ethics.
Why should non- Bahai's
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
You seem to study everything and commit to nothing. This can be a path
to insanity. I hope that is not your fate.
On 04/18/2013 11:37 AM, Stephen Kent Gray wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I really should study the implications of this. New religious
movements,
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan, how would consultation work in the overall world rather than just in the
Baha'i community? You seem to forget about all the non-Baha'i religious texts
out there. You also seem to think that any group of people with any types of
religious beliefs can get
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
What does that have to do with non-Bahai's and why should they believe in it
over any other religion, especially more recent religions?
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:58, Mike Moum mike.m...@gmail.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Because Baha'is
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Actually I only believe in Unitarian Universalism, Mahayana Nichiren Buddhism,
Religious Humanism, as my survey results if asked by a survey.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 13:04, Mike Moum mike.m...@gmail.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
You seem to
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
That really doesn't answer the question. Non-Baha'is won't just accept that
statement as factual because Baha'is believe it. A lot of Baha'is have magical
thinking that somehow non-Baha'is will naturally be drawn to it.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:58,
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
This become especially problematic when you look at Baha'i demographics. Only
slightly more gross enrollments than deaths happen each month. I say gross
because net is way lower. Official dis enrollments and dis enrollment which
doesn't happen on paper do to just
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
How would consultation work now for setting public policy?
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 17, 2013, at 12:28, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Would non-Bahais be bound by Baha'i laws or not?
Dear Stephen,
I don't think we can say
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
...And yet you so often bless us with your comments. Why are we so blessed?
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 11:12 am
Subject: Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I generously bless people. It's what I do. Also, I'm trained in logic and can
notify people when they're using fallacies. Also, I'm an ex non dis enrolled
Baha'i who left because of the logical inconsistencies.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 14:00, Gary
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Like just assuming since Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism,
Bahai Faith, Zoroastrianism, and Bayaniism are the only world religions
mentioned in the Baha'i Writings, they're the only world religions that exist.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
How come this topic is ignored in favor or Against nature?
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:53, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I forgot to include specific religious ethics. Note, Scientology and Wicca
are good
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hmmm...Logic is also not on our list of world religions. Have you ever been
diagnosed with OCD?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder
It's a treatable disorder.
GS
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Actually I'm the exact opposite, anal eliminative personality type via Freud.
Wikipedia calls in anal expulsive personality type.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosexual_development
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 14:41, Gary Selchert ebedeyn...@aol.com
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
How should people use consultation to arrive at public policy?
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 13:08, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan, how would consultation work in the overall world rather than just in
the
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
If logic and religion conflict, people should side with logic and rationality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_religion
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 14:41, Gary Selchert ebedeyn...@aol.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hmmm...Logic is also
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I think only Indonesia is such a Muslim state. All other Muslim states
impose Islamic law on all people there, regardless of their actual religious
beliefs. India is another state that has religious law that varies depending
upon the religion of the person. But for
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality
is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without
regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional
morality is based on authority and
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Here below is a Wikipedia excerpt.
Note Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia,
Yemen, etc. are listed as completely illegal alcohol status rather than just
Saudi Arabia like you imply.
Also note Iran and Pakistan are listed as almost
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the conventional age of
Adam as referenced earlier in Against Nature. This age isn't about
materialistic and paternalistic people treating people as if they were sheep.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16,
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
To quote Don C,
According to Baha'u'llah, this is not merely a new Dispensation, but a new age,
the Age of Maturity. As such, what we are going thru' is the greatest change
to the functioning of human affairs since the mythic Time of Adam, when the
Culture Hero
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
So basically from all the info we live in the Age of the New Religious Movement!
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:27, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
To quote Don C,
According to Baha'u'llah, this is not merely a
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It also listed various countries with legal drinking ages and the side note
illegal for Muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreational_drug_use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:24, Stephen Kent Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Sounds like moral and ethical principles and not laws should be the center of
this Age. Sounds like an Age of Antinomianism, no rules other than the Golden
Rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:31, Stephen Kent
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Stephen:
Actually the stories I've read of Baha'i Administration in action
rivals North Korea, Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and other such places in
terms of totalitarianism.
Stephen, I come from a family of refugees from Eastern Europe some of whom
survived
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
According to some blogs I've read...
http://bahaisects.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/bahai-leadership-may-spy-on-you/
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:51, Ian Kluge iankl...@netbistro.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Stephen:
Actually the stories I've
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
That is evidence that the Baha'i Faith rivals North Korea, Nazi Germany, the
Soviet Union and China?!!!? You're kidding - right?
If the Faith rivalled those countries in even the remotest way, Nima would
have disappeared a long time ago - and none of his family,
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Antinomianism is an extreme form of salvation by faith alone.
As I understand it, Abdu'l-Baha accepted two ideas -
Faith without works is dead;
Deeds without faith is sterile.
Doesn't fit with any discussion of antinomianism I've read.
Don C
On Apr 18, 2013, at 2:39
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
But by the same token, the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf states that one's
past and *future* sins would be forgiven them if they counted forty waves
while saying, God is the Most Great in Akka. There is also the Baha'i
teaching of the progression of the soul after
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Why should non- Bahai's take Baha'i morality and ethics over all else.
They shouldn't unless they believe that Baha'u'llah is the
Manifestation of God for this age, in which case they are no longer
non-Baha'is.
__
You
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
IMO, this is a reference to the True Believer who comes to Akka as a pilgrim to
see Baha'u'llah.
Don C
On Apr 18, 2013, at 4:27 10PM, Matt Haase wrote:
But by the same token, the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf states that one's
past and future sins would be
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan, how would consultation work in the overall world rather than just in
the Baha'i community? You seem to forget about all the non-Baha'i religious
texts out there. You also seem to think that any group of people with any
types of religious beliefs can get
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Note Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia,
Yemen, etc. are listed as completely illegal alcohol status rather than just
Saudi Arabia like you imply.
I didn't say Saudi Arabia was the only country which completely banned
alcohol, I
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It also listed various countries with legal drinking ages and the side note
illegal for Muslims.
Which is precisely what I said in the first place.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Stephen,
Ian's parents were not just refugees from eastern Europe, they were
both holocaust survivors. For him your comparison of the Baha'i
administration to Nazi Germany is more than a little offensive. And I
dare the rest of it don't feel much better about it
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Sorry, I'm not letting Kohlberg or you define for me or my religion
the age in which we live.
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Stephen: Logical people will side with logic; religious people will side with
the religion of their choice. Emotional people often fly their passions in the
guise of religion or logic or both. Sometimes religions and logic and emotion
work together to express truth
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Gary,
Stephen has not really even had any interaction with a real Baha'i
community in person. He declared online but rather than become
involved in Baha'i community life he instead started interacting with
a lot of disaffected ex-Baha'is. That has sort of twisted his
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Dear Susan,
Sorry to correct you but only my mother, not my father who was 'Aryan'. But
he suffered in other ways.
Your point of course is well taken and I thank you for it.
Best,
Ian
- Original Message -
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
That's right. I forgot that your father was made to serve in the Nazi
military after his Jewish wife (your mother) was forcibly taken to a
concentration camp. In any case, the right-wing libertarians in the
US want to compare people like Obama to Hitler so I shouldn't
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Stephen,
You stated earlier: If logic and religion conflict, people should side
with logic and rationality.
I'd like you to comment on the various views on logic, and the
limitations thereof, as presented in the following articles. I would
particularly like to know
50 matches
Mail list logo
