Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Wikipedia on Antinomianism outside Christianity. You seem to be only familiar with the Christian forms which are radical salvation by faith alone, but the other forms of Antinomianism are not this. Buddhism See also: Crazy wisdom Among Buddhists there are three main types of 'antinomianism' which may act as a gloss for 'left-handed attainment' (Sanskrit:Vamachara): naturalist/spontaneous antinomianism, ritualist/philosophical antinomianism, and empirical antinomianism.[citation needed]There may also be those who subscribe to all or some combination of these three types. Naturalist antinomians believe that enlightened beings may spontaneously break monastic codes of conduct while living out a natural state of enlightenened mind. Another view is that an enlightened mind responds to circumstances based on Buddhist morality, rather than the legalism of the monastic codes, and that the break is not therefore spontaneous. There are tales of Buddhists who perform acts that appear to be bizarre or immoral, sometimes referred to as 'crazy wisdom' (Tibetan: yeshe chölwa).[46] The movement of theNyönpa in Seventeenth Century Tibet has strong associations with antinomian behavior as well. Ritualist antinomians, such as some Tantric Buddhists, may practice which seemingly may appear to be breaking the codes of conduct in specific religious rituals designed to teach non-duality or other philosophical concept. (refer Panchamakara; Ganachakra). Empirical antinomians may break or disregard traditional ethical or moral rules that they believe are unconducive to the individual's contemplative life. They view such codification as having arisen in specific historical-cultural contexts and, as such, not always supportive of Buddhist training. Thus the individual and the community must test and verify which rules promote or hinderenlightenment.[47] [edit]Hinduism Main articles: Aghori, Tantra, and Vamachara [edit]Islam See also: Naskh (tafsir) In Islam, the law—which applies not only to religion, but also to areas such as politics, banking, and sexuality—is called sharīʿah (شريعة), and it is traditionally organized around four primary sources: the Qurʾān, which is Islam's central religious text; the sunnah, which refers to actions practised during the time of the prophet Muḥammad, and is often thought to include theḥadīth, or recorded words and deeds of Muḥammad; ijmāʿ, which is the consensus of the ʿulamāʾ, or class of Islamic scholars, on points of practice; qiyās, which—in Sunnī Islam—is a kind of analogical reasoning conducted by the ʿulamāʾ upon specific laws that have arisen through appeal to the first three sources; in Shīʿah Islam, ʿaql (reason) is used in place of qiyās Actions, behavior, or beliefs that are considered to violate any or all of these four sources—primarily in matters of religion—can be termed antinomian. Depending on the action, behavior, or belief in question, a number of different terms can be used to convey the sense of antinomian: shirk (association of another being with God); bidʿah (innovation); kufr (disbelief); ḥarām (forbidden); etc. As an example, the 10th-century Sufi mystic Mansur Al-Hallaj was executed for shirk for, among other things, his statement ana al-Ḥaqq(أنا الحق), meaning I am the Truth. As al-Ḥaqq (the Truth) is one of the 99 names of God in Islamic tradition, this would imply he was saying: I am God.[48] Expressions like these are known as Shathiyat. Another individual who has often been termed antinomian is Ibn al-ʿArabi, a 12th–13th century scholar and mystic whose doctrine of waḥdat al-wujūd (unity of being) has sometimes been interpreted as being pantheistic, and thus shirk.[49] Apart from individuals, entire groups of Muslims have also been called antinomian. One of these groups is the Ismāʿīlī Shīʿīs, who have always had strong millenarian tendencies arising partly from persecution directed at them by Sunnīs. Influenced to a certain extent byGnosticism,[50] the Ismāʿīlīs developed a number of beliefs and practices—such as their belief in the imāmah and an esoteric exegesisof the Qurʾān—that were different enough from Sunnī orthodoxy for them to be condemned as shirk and, hence, to be seen as antinomian.[51] Certain other groups that evolved out of Shīʿah belief, such as the Alawites[52] and the Bektashis,[53] have also been considered antinomian. The Bektashis, particularly, have many practices that are especially antinomian in the context of Islam, such as the consumption of alcohol, the non-wearing of the ḥijāb (veil) by women, and gathering in the cemevi in preference to the mosque.[54] Left-hand path Main article: Left-hand path and right-hand path In contemporary studies of esotericism, antinomianism is regarded as a central ingredient in Left-Hand Path spiritualities,[55] and understood as nonconformity through the concept of transgression.[56] This extends the modern usage of the
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It really long, but really good.
http://www.kusala.org/udharma/globalethic.html
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:53, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I forgot to include specific religious ethics. Note, Scientology and Wicca
are good examples of the hypothesis. The Baha'i Faith and Religious
Humanism are good examples as well.
The Declaration Toward a Global Ethic[34] from the Parliament of the
World’s Religions[35][36] (1993) proclaimed the Golden Rule (We must treat
others as we wish others to treat us) as the common principle for many
religions.[37] The Initial Declaration was signed by 143 respected leaders
from all of the world's major faiths, including Baha'i Faith, Brahmanism,
Brahma Kumaris, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Indigenous, Interfaith,
Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Native American, Neo-Pagan, Sikhism, Taoism,
Theosophist, Unitarian Universalist and Zoroastrian.[37][38] In the folklore
of several cultures{31} the Golden Rule is depicted by the allegory of the
long spoons.
The Writings of the Bahá'í Faith while encouraging everyone to treat others
as they would treat themselves, go further by introducing the concept of
preferring others before oneself:
O SON OF MAN! Deny not My servant should he ask anything from thee, for his
face is My face; be then abashed before Me.
—Bahá'u'lláh[39]
Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[40][41]
And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour
that which thou choosest for thyself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[42][43]
Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee,
and say not that which thou doest not.
—Bahá'u'lláh[44][45][46]
Beware lest ye harm any soul, or make any heart to sorrow; lest ye wound any
man with your words, be he known to you or a stranger, be he friend or foe.
—`Abdu'l-Bahá[47]
Many different sources claim the Golden Rule as a humanist principle:[55][56]
Trying to live according to the Golden Rule means trying to empathise with
other people, including those who may be very different from us. Empathy is
at the root of kindness, compassion, understanding and respect – qualities
that we all appreciate being shown, whoever we are, whatever we think and
wherever we come from. And although it isn’t possible to know what it really
feels like to be a different person or live in different circumstances and
have different life experiences, it isn’t difficult for most of us to imagine
what would cause us suffering and to try to avoid causing suffering to
others. For this reason many people find the Golden Rule’s corollary – “do
not treat people in a way you would not wish to be treated yourself” – more
pragmatic.[55]
The above is from the website Think Humanism
Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. [is] (...) the
single greatest, simplest, and most important moral axiom humanity has ever
invented, one which reappears in the writings of almost every culture and
religion throughout history, the one we know as the Golden Rule. Moral
directives do not need to be complex or obscure to be worthwhile, and in
fact, it is precisely this rule's simplicity which makes it great. It is easy
to come up with, easy to understand, and easy to apply, and these three
things are the hallmarks of a strong and healthy moral system. The idea
behind it is readily graspable: before performing an action which might harm
another person, try to imagine yourself in their position, and consider
whether you would want to be the recipient of that action. If you would not
want to be in such a position, the other person probably would not either,
and so you should not do it. It is the basic and fundamental human trait of
empathy, the ability to vicariously experience how another is feeling, that
makes this possible, and it is the principle of empathy by which we should
live our lives.[57]
The above is from the website Ebon Musings
According to Greg M. Epstein, a Humanist chaplain at Harvard University,
'do unto others' ... is a concept that essentially no religion misses
entirely. But not a single one of these versions of the golden rule requires
a God.[58]
These eight words the Rede fulfill, 'an ye harm none do as ye will.
—The Wiccan Rede
Here ye these words and heed them well, the words of Dea, thy Mother Goddess,
I command thee thus, O children of the Earth, that that which ye deem
harmful unto thyself, the very same shall ye be forbidden from doing unto
another, for violence and hatred give rise to the same. My command is thus,
that ye shall return all violence and hatred with peacefulness and love, for
my Law is love unto all things. Only through love shall ye have peace; yea
and verily, only peace and love will cure the world, and subdue all evil.
—The Book of Ways,
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I think conventions can hinder moral and ethical development.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 14:19, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
How come this topic is ignored in favor or Against nature?
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:53, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I forgot to include specific religious ethics. Note, Scientology and Wicca
are good examples of the hypothesis. The Baha'i Faith and Religious
Humanism are good examples as well.
The Declaration Toward a Global Ethic[34] from the Parliament of the
World’s Religions[35][36] (1993) proclaimed the Golden Rule (We must treat
others as we wish others to treat us) as the common principle for many
religions.[37] The Initial Declaration was signed by 143 respected leaders
from all of the world's major faiths, including Baha'i Faith, Brahmanism,
Brahma Kumaris, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Indigenous, Interfaith,
Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Native American, Neo-Pagan, Sikhism, Taoism,
Theosophist, Unitarian Universalist and Zoroastrian.[37][38] In the folklore
of several cultures{31} the Golden Rule is depicted by the allegory of the
long spoons.
The Writings of the Bahá'í Faith while encouraging everyone to treat others
as they would treat themselves, go further by introducing the concept of
preferring others before oneself:
O SON OF MAN! Deny not My servant should he ask anything from thee, for his
face is My face; be then abashed before Me.
—Bahá'u'lláh[39]
Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[40][41]
And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour
that which thou choosest for thyself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[42][43]
Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee,
and say not that which thou doest not.
—Bahá'u'lláh[44][45][46]
Beware lest ye harm any soul, or make any heart to sorrow; lest ye wound any
man with your words, be he known to you or a stranger, be he friend or foe.
—`Abdu'l-Bahá[47]
Many different sources claim the Golden Rule as a humanist principle:[55][56]
Trying to live according to the Golden Rule means trying to empathise with
other people, including those who may be very different from us. Empathy is
at the root of kindness, compassion, understanding and respect – qualities
that we all appreciate being shown, whoever we are, whatever we think and
wherever we come from. And although it isn’t possible to know what it really
feels like to be a different person or live in different circumstances and
have different life experiences, it isn’t difficult for most of us to
imagine what would cause us suffering and to try to avoid causing suffering
to others. For this reason many people find the Golden Rule’s corollary –
“do not treat people in a way you would not wish to be treated yourself” –
more pragmatic.[55]
The above is from the website Think Humanism
Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. [is] (...)
the single greatest, simplest, and most important moral axiom humanity has
ever invented, one which reappears in the writings of almost every culture
and religion throughout history, the one we know as the Golden Rule. Moral
directives do not need to be complex or obscure to be worthwhile, and in
fact, it is precisely this rule's simplicity which makes it great. It is
easy to come up with, easy to understand, and easy to apply, and these three
things are the hallmarks of a strong and healthy moral system. The idea
behind it is readily graspable: before performing an action which might harm
another person, try to imagine yourself in their position, and consider
whether you would want to be the recipient of that action. If you would not
want to be in such a position, the other person probably would not either,
and so you should not do it. It is the basic and fundamental human trait of
empathy, the ability to vicariously experience how another is feeling, that
makes this possible, and it is the principle of empathy by which we should
live our lives.[57]
The above is from the website Ebon Musings
According to Greg M. Epstein, a Humanist chaplain at Harvard University,
'do unto others' ... is a concept that essentially no religion misses
entirely. But not a single one of these versions of the golden rule requires
a God.[58]
These eight words the Rede fulfill, 'an ye harm none do as ye will.
—The Wiccan Rede
Here ye these words and heed them well, the words of Dea, thy Mother
Goddess, I command thee thus, O children of the Earth, that that which ye
deem harmful unto thyself, the very same shall ye be forbidden from doing
unto another, for violence and hatred give rise to the same. My command is
thus, that ye shall return all violence and hatred with peacefulness and
love, for my Law
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I like the Golden Rule as the beginning, the middle, and the end of all ethics and of all morality. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:43, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Don C seem to think the Baha'i Faith is the prime example of a post conventional religion. You can look at them and see which new religious movements are even better examples of a post conventional religion. This is especially with regards to sexual morality and ethics as a subtropical as well. Bahai's tend to have a lot of conventional morality. Just look at the Aqdas and try and see wether or not that qualifies as a convention. To summarize, why is anything more than the platinum rule, golden rule, silver rule, and non aggression principle which are all the same thing enough? Especially when you apply these to sexuality (which was the last topic that spilled over in those topic)? Among major religious groups or world religions: Baha'i Faith, Cao Dai, Cheodogyo, Tenrikyo, Wicca, Sekai Kysuei Kyo, Seicho No Ie, Rastafarianism, Unitarian Universalism, Scientology, Eckankar, LaVeyanism, Raëlism, Neo-Druidism, etc. are all new religious movements. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_new_religious_movements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFO_religions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality_and_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups Sent from my iPad __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698412-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Reflect on the principles highlighted in the Declaration of a Global Ethic.
Briefly describe the extent to which you see each principle being practiced in
society.
The Declaration Toward a Global Ethic[34] from the Parliament of the
World’s Religions[35][36] (1993) proclaimed the Golden Rule (We must treat
others as we wish others to treat us) as the common principle for many
religions.[37] The Initial Declaration was signed by 143 respected leaders
from all of the world's major faiths, including Baha'i Faith, Brahmanism,
Brahma Kumaris, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Indigenous, Interfaith,
Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Native American, Neo-Pagan, Sikhism, Taoism,
Theosophist, Unitarian Universalist and Zoroastrian.[37][38] In the folklore
of several cultures{31} the Golden Rule is depicted by the allegory of the
long spoons.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:53, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I forgot to include specific religious ethics. Note, Scientology and Wicca
are good examples of the hypothesis. The Baha'i Faith and Religious
Humanism are good examples as well.
The Declaration Toward a Global Ethic[34] from the Parliament of the
World’s Religions[35][36] (1993) proclaimed the Golden Rule (We must treat
others as we wish others to treat us) as the common principle for many
religions.[37] The Initial Declaration was signed by 143 respected leaders
from all of the world's major faiths, including Baha'i Faith, Brahmanism,
Brahma Kumaris, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Indigenous, Interfaith,
Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Native American, Neo-Pagan, Sikhism, Taoism,
Theosophist, Unitarian Universalist and Zoroastrian.[37][38] In the folklore
of several cultures{31} the Golden Rule is depicted by the allegory of the
long spoons.
The Writings of the Bahá'í Faith while encouraging everyone to treat others
as they would treat themselves, go further by introducing the concept of
preferring others before oneself:
O SON OF MAN! Deny not My servant should he ask anything from thee, for his
face is My face; be then abashed before Me.
—Bahá'u'lláh[39]
Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[40][41]
And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour
that which thou choosest for thyself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[42][43]
Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee,
and say not that which thou doest not.
—Bahá'u'lláh[44][45][46]
Beware lest ye harm any soul, or make any heart to sorrow; lest ye wound any
man with your words, be he known to you or a stranger, be he friend or foe.
—`Abdu'l-Bahá[47]
Many different sources claim the Golden Rule as a humanist principle:[55][56]
Trying to live according to the Golden Rule means trying to empathise with
other people, including those who may be very different from us. Empathy is
at the root of kindness, compassion, understanding and respect – qualities
that we all appreciate being shown, whoever we are, whatever we think and
wherever we come from. And although it isn’t possible to know what it really
feels like to be a different person or live in different circumstances and
have different life experiences, it isn’t difficult for most of us to imagine
what would cause us suffering and to try to avoid causing suffering to
others. For this reason many people find the Golden Rule’s corollary – “do
not treat people in a way you would not wish to be treated yourself” – more
pragmatic.[55]
The above is from the website Think Humanism
Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. [is] (...) the
single greatest, simplest, and most important moral axiom humanity has ever
invented, one which reappears in the writings of almost every culture and
religion throughout history, the one we know as the Golden Rule. Moral
directives do not need to be complex or obscure to be worthwhile, and in
fact, it is precisely this rule's simplicity which makes it great. It is easy
to come up with, easy to understand, and easy to apply, and these three
things are the hallmarks of a strong and healthy moral system. The idea
behind it is readily graspable: before performing an action which might harm
another person, try to imagine yourself in their position, and consider
whether you would want to be the recipient of that action. If you would not
want to be in such a position, the other person probably would not either,
and so you should not do it. It is the basic and fundamental human trait of
empathy, the ability to vicariously experience how another is feeling, that
makes this possible, and it is the principle of empathy by which we should
live our lives.[57]
The above is from the website Ebon Musings
According to Greg M. Epstein, a Humanist chaplain at Harvard University,
'do unto others' ... is a concept
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I've studied Antinomianism is various religions. It's a good example of post conventional religious tendencies. Pashupata Shaivism is one example that comes to mind. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:39, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Sounds like moral and ethical principles and not laws should be the center of this Age. Sounds like an Age of Antinomianism, no rules other than the Golden Rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:31, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv So basically from all the info we live in the Age of the New Religious Movement! Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:27, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv To quote Don C, According to Baha'u'llah, this is not merely a new Dispensation, but a new age, the Age of Maturity. As such, what we are going thru' is the greatest change to the functioning of human affairs since the mythic Time of Adam, when the Culture Hero societies replaced the Mother Goddess societies. The Adamic Cycle can be seen as the equivalent of going thru' puberty. We are now embarking on our maturity and it is time for us to grow up and take responsibility for our own affairs instead of waiting for mommy and daddy (kings/gov'ts/administrators) to tell us what to do. Rather, the new purpose of administrators is to remind us, repeatedly and persistently if necessary, what the proper principles should guide us. Shoghi Effendi made reference to this idea many years ago when he told local Assemblies to quit making up rules to enforce on their members. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:26, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the conventional age of Adam as referenced earlier in Against Nature. This age isn't about materialistic and paternalistic people treating people as if they were sheep. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697911-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697913-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I wholeheartedly agree with Humanist praise for the Golden Rule. Authoritarian
dogmatic attachment to a conventional code of laws and rules will cause people
to lose sight of the Golden Rule.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:53, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I forgot to include specific religious ethics. Note, Scientology and Wicca
are good examples of the hypothesis. The Baha'i Faith and Religious
Humanism are good examples as well.
The Declaration Toward a Global Ethic[34] from the Parliament of the
World’s Religions[35][36] (1993) proclaimed the Golden Rule (We must treat
others as we wish others to treat us) as the common principle for many
religions.[37] The Initial Declaration was signed by 143 respected leaders
from all of the world's major faiths, including Baha'i Faith, Brahmanism,
Brahma Kumaris, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Indigenous, Interfaith,
Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Native American, Neo-Pagan, Sikhism, Taoism,
Theosophist, Unitarian Universalist and Zoroastrian.[37][38] In the folklore
of several cultures{31} the Golden Rule is depicted by the allegory of the
long spoons.
The Writings of the Bahá'í Faith while encouraging everyone to treat others
as they would treat themselves, go further by introducing the concept of
preferring others before oneself:
O SON OF MAN! Deny not My servant should he ask anything from thee, for his
face is My face; be then abashed before Me.
—Bahá'u'lláh[39]
Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[40][41]
And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour
that which thou choosest for thyself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[42][43]
Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee,
and say not that which thou doest not.
—Bahá'u'lláh[44][45][46]
Beware lest ye harm any soul, or make any heart to sorrow; lest ye wound any
man with your words, be he known to you or a stranger, be he friend or foe.
—`Abdu'l-Bahá[47]
Many different sources claim the Golden Rule as a humanist principle:[55][56]
Trying to live according to the Golden Rule means trying to empathise with
other people, including those who may be very different from us. Empathy is
at the root of kindness, compassion, understanding and respect – qualities
that we all appreciate being shown, whoever we are, whatever we think and
wherever we come from. And although it isn’t possible to know what it really
feels like to be a different person or live in different circumstances and
have different life experiences, it isn’t difficult for most of us to imagine
what would cause us suffering and to try to avoid causing suffering to
others. For this reason many people find the Golden Rule’s corollary – “do
not treat people in a way you would not wish to be treated yourself” – more
pragmatic.[55]
The above is from the website Think Humanism
Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. [is] (...) the
single greatest, simplest, and most important moral axiom humanity has ever
invented, one which reappears in the writings of almost every culture and
religion throughout history, the one we know as the Golden Rule. Moral
directives do not need to be complex or obscure to be worthwhile, and in
fact, it is precisely this rule's simplicity which makes it great. It is easy
to come up with, easy to understand, and easy to apply, and these three
things are the hallmarks of a strong and healthy moral system. The idea
behind it is readily graspable: before performing an action which might harm
another person, try to imagine yourself in their position, and consider
whether you would want to be the recipient of that action. If you would not
want to be in such a position, the other person probably would not either,
and so you should not do it. It is the basic and fundamental human trait of
empathy, the ability to vicariously experience how another is feeling, that
makes this possible, and it is the principle of empathy by which we should
live our lives.[57]
The above is from the website Ebon Musings
According to Greg M. Epstein, a Humanist chaplain at Harvard University,
'do unto others' ... is a concept that essentially no religion misses
entirely. But not a single one of these versions of the golden rule requires
a God.[58]
These eight words the Rede fulfill, 'an ye harm none do as ye will.
—The Wiccan Rede
Here ye these words and heed them well, the words of Dea, thy Mother Goddess,
I command thee thus, O children of the Earth, that that which ye deem
harmful unto thyself, the very same shall ye be forbidden from doing unto
another, for violence and hatred give rise to the same. My command is thus,
that ye shall return all violence and hatred with peacefulness and love, for
my Law is love unto all things. Only through love shall ye
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Susan, why do Baha'is need to be ignorant of all ethics and all morality that isn't the Baha'i Faith? Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698425-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Susan, just read Don's paragraph. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:27, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv To quote Don C, According to Baha'u'llah, this is not merely a new Dispensation, but a new age, the Age of Maturity. As such, what we are going thru' is the greatest change to the functioning of human affairs since the mythic Time of Adam, when the Culture Hero societies replaced the Mother Goddess societies. The Adamic Cycle can be seen as the equivalent of going thru' puberty. We are now embarking on our maturity and it is time for us to grow up and take responsibility for our own affairs instead of waiting for mommy and daddy (kings/gov'ts/administrators) to tell us what to do. Rather, the new purpose of administrators is to remind us, repeatedly and persistently if necessary, what the proper principles should guide us. Shoghi Effendi made reference to this idea many years ago when he told local Assemblies to quit making up rules to enforce on their members. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:26, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the conventional age of Adam as referenced earlier in Against Nature. This age isn't about materialistic and paternalistic people treating people as if they were sheep. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697911-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697913-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698450-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public -
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Susan, why do Baha'is need to be ignorant of all ethics and all morality that isn't the Baha'i Faith? Did I say we did? What I said is that we are not compelled to fit into their categories. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698472-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Susan, just read Don's paragraph. What about it? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698474-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv If I had written that book, I would have included more info, included other sects than the Haifan Heterodox Baha'i World Faith. All right, that's it. You are not welcome here. Either remove yourself from this list or I will call Mark and have him remove you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698476-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Please everyone. Hitherto ignore Stephen's posts. Maybe he will take the hint and leave on his own accord. But don't give him oxygen. Covenant breaking talk is not welcome here. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: If I had written that book, I would have included more info, included other sects than the Haifan Heterodox Baha'i World Faith. All right, that's it. You are not welcome here. Either remove yourself from this list or I will call Mark and have him remove you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698477-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv For several months I have had my mail filter set so that anything from Stephen goes straight to my trash folder. Tim All good art is about something deeper than it admits. --Roger Ebert From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 1:08 PM Subject: Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality The Baha'i Studies Listserv Please everyone. Hitherto ignore Stephen's posts. Maybe he will take the hint and leave on his own accord. But don't give him oxygen. Covenant breaking talk is not welcome here. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: If I had written that book, I would have included more info, included other sects than the Haifan Heterodox Baha'i World Faith. All right, that's it. You are not welcome here. Either remove yourself from this list or I will call Mark and have him remove you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:tnola...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698477-32977.dbe40ccd11b1fb869099e58e00076...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698508-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Yes, I think at this point everyone else needs to do the same. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Tim Nolan tnola...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv For several months I have had my mail filter set so that anything from Stephen goes straight to my trash folder. Tim All good art is about something deeper than it admits. --Roger Ebert From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 1:08 PM Subject: Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality The Baha'i Studies Listserv Please everyone. Hitherto ignore Stephen's posts. Maybe he will take the hint and leave on his own accord. But don't give him oxygen. Covenant breaking talk is not welcome here. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: If I had written that book, I would have included more info, included other sects than the Haifan Heterodox Baha'i World Faith. All right, that's it. You are not welcome here. Either remove yourself from this list or I will call Mark and have him remove you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:tnola...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698477-32977.dbe40ccd11b1fb869099e58e00076...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698511-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Well, this true believer must have sinned so many times that they be heaped as piles of sand. :-) No matter who it is describing, it seems to me to demonstrate that God's mercy is much, much, more manifest than his wrath. On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Don Calkins don59...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv IMO, this is a reference to the True Believer who comes to Akka as a pilgrim to see Baha'u'llah. Don C On Apr 18, 2013, at 4:27 10PM, Matt Haase wrote: But by the same token, the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf states that one's past and *future* sins would be forgiven them if they counted forty waves while saying, God is the Most Great in Akka. There is also the Baha'i teaching of the progression of the soul after death, so every soul will eventually be at peace with God - but some may take longer than others, which is the incentive to live a good life now. It seems like a better deal than claiming that we get one chance, and one chance only, otherwise we will spend eternity in Hell. Those are just my thoughts anyway. *The Apostle of God—may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him—hath also said: “He that looketh upon the sea at eventide, and saith: ‘God is Most Great!’ at sunset, God will forgive his sins, though they be heaped as piles of sand. And he that counteth forty waves, while repeating: ‘God is Most Great!’—exalted be He—God will forgive his sins, both past and future*.” http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/ESW/esw-9.html - Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in nature. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698159-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I certainly hope so. otherwise, eternity is going to last a lo-ong time. 8-) Don C On Apr 19, 2013, at 2:00 38PM, Matt Haase wrote: No matter who it is describing, it seems to me to demonstrate that God's mercy is much, much, more manifest than his wrath. He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-698163-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I forgot to include specific religious ethics. Note, Scientology and Wicca are
good examples of the hypothesis. The Baha'i Faith and Religious Humanism
are good examples as well.
The Declaration Toward a Global Ethic[34] from the Parliament of the World’s
Religions[35][36] (1993) proclaimed the Golden Rule (We must treat others as
we wish others to treat us) as the common principle for many religions.[37]
The Initial Declaration was signed by 143 respected leaders from all of the
world's major faiths, including Baha'i Faith, Brahmanism, Brahma Kumaris,
Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Indigenous, Interfaith, Islam, Jainism,
Judaism, Native American, Neo-Pagan, Sikhism, Taoism, Theosophist, Unitarian
Universalist and Zoroastrian.[37][38] In the folklore of several cultures{31}
the Golden Rule is depicted by the allegory of the long spoons.
The Writings of the Bahá'í Faith while encouraging everyone to treat others as
they would treat themselves, go further by introducing the concept of
preferring others before oneself:
O SON OF MAN! Deny not My servant should he ask anything from thee, for his
face is My face; be then abashed before Me.
—Bahá'u'lláh[39]
Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[40][41]
And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that
which thou choosest for thyself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[42][43]
Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and
say not that which thou doest not.
—Bahá'u'lláh[44][45][46]
Beware lest ye harm any soul, or make any heart to sorrow; lest ye wound any
man with your words, be he known to you or a stranger, be he friend or foe.
—`Abdu'l-Bahá[47]
Many different sources claim the Golden Rule as a humanist principle:[55][56]
Trying to live according to the Golden Rule means trying to empathise with
other people, including those who may be very different from us. Empathy is at
the root of kindness, compassion, understanding and respect – qualities that we
all appreciate being shown, whoever we are, whatever we think and wherever we
come from. And although it isn’t possible to know what it really feels like to
be a different person or live in different circumstances and have different
life experiences, it isn’t difficult for most of us to imagine what would cause
us suffering and to try to avoid causing suffering to others. For this reason
many people find the Golden Rule’s corollary – “do not treat people in a way
you would not wish to be treated yourself” – more pragmatic.[55]
The above is from the website Think Humanism
Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. [is] (...) the
single greatest, simplest, and most important moral axiom humanity has ever
invented, one which reappears in the writings of almost every culture and
religion throughout history, the one we know as the Golden Rule. Moral
directives do not need to be complex or obscure to be worthwhile, and in fact,
it is precisely this rule's simplicity which makes it great. It is easy to come
up with, easy to understand, and easy to apply, and these three things are the
hallmarks of a strong and healthy moral system. The idea behind it is readily
graspable: before performing an action which might harm another person, try to
imagine yourself in their position, and consider whether you would want to be
the recipient of that action. If you would not want to be in such a position,
the other person probably would not either, and so you should not do it. It is
the basic and fundamental human trait of empathy, the ability to vicariously
experience how another is feeling, that makes this possible, and it is the
principle of empathy by which we should live our lives.[57]
The above is from the website Ebon Musings
According to Greg M. Epstein, a Humanist chaplain at Harvard University, 'do
unto others' ... is a concept that essentially no religion misses entirely. But
not a single one of these versions of the golden rule requires a God.[58]
These eight words the Rede fulfill, 'an ye harm none do as ye will.
—The Wiccan Rede
Here ye these words and heed them well, the words of Dea, thy Mother Goddess,
I command thee thus, O children of the Earth, that that which ye deem harmful
unto thyself, the very same shall ye be forbidden from doing unto another, for
violence and hatred give rise to the same. My command is thus, that ye shall
return all violence and hatred with peacefulness and love, for my Law is love
unto all things. Only through love shall ye have peace; yea and verily, only
peace and love will cure the world, and subdue all evil.
—The Book of Ways, Devotional Wicca
19. Try not to do things to others that you would not like them to do to you.
—The Way to Happiness, Precept 19[73][74]
20. Try to treat others as you would want them to treat you.
—The Way to Happiness, Precept 20[75][76]
Consistent with the observation by Walter
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
How come this topic is ignored in favor or Against nature?
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:53, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I forgot to include specific religious ethics. Note, Scientology and Wicca
are good examples of the hypothesis. The Baha'i Faith and Religious
Humanism are good examples as well.
The Declaration Toward a Global Ethic[34] from the Parliament of the
World’s Religions[35][36] (1993) proclaimed the Golden Rule (We must treat
others as we wish others to treat us) as the common principle for many
religions.[37] The Initial Declaration was signed by 143 respected leaders
from all of the world's major faiths, including Baha'i Faith, Brahmanism,
Brahma Kumaris, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Indigenous, Interfaith,
Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Native American, Neo-Pagan, Sikhism, Taoism,
Theosophist, Unitarian Universalist and Zoroastrian.[37][38] In the folklore
of several cultures{31} the Golden Rule is depicted by the allegory of the
long spoons.
The Writings of the Bahá'í Faith while encouraging everyone to treat others
as they would treat themselves, go further by introducing the concept of
preferring others before oneself:
O SON OF MAN! Deny not My servant should he ask anything from thee, for his
face is My face; be then abashed before Me.
—Bahá'u'lláh[39]
Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[40][41]
And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour
that which thou choosest for thyself.
—Bahá'u'lláh[42][43]
Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee,
and say not that which thou doest not.
—Bahá'u'lláh[44][45][46]
Beware lest ye harm any soul, or make any heart to sorrow; lest ye wound any
man with your words, be he known to you or a stranger, be he friend or foe.
—`Abdu'l-Bahá[47]
Many different sources claim the Golden Rule as a humanist principle:[55][56]
Trying to live according to the Golden Rule means trying to empathise with
other people, including those who may be very different from us. Empathy is
at the root of kindness, compassion, understanding and respect – qualities
that we all appreciate being shown, whoever we are, whatever we think and
wherever we come from. And although it isn’t possible to know what it really
feels like to be a different person or live in different circumstances and
have different life experiences, it isn’t difficult for most of us to imagine
what would cause us suffering and to try to avoid causing suffering to
others. For this reason many people find the Golden Rule’s corollary – “do
not treat people in a way you would not wish to be treated yourself” – more
pragmatic.[55]
The above is from the website Think Humanism
Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. [is] (...) the
single greatest, simplest, and most important moral axiom humanity has ever
invented, one which reappears in the writings of almost every culture and
religion throughout history, the one we know as the Golden Rule. Moral
directives do not need to be complex or obscure to be worthwhile, and in
fact, it is precisely this rule's simplicity which makes it great. It is easy
to come up with, easy to understand, and easy to apply, and these three
things are the hallmarks of a strong and healthy moral system. The idea
behind it is readily graspable: before performing an action which might harm
another person, try to imagine yourself in their position, and consider
whether you would want to be the recipient of that action. If you would not
want to be in such a position, the other person probably would not either,
and so you should not do it. It is the basic and fundamental human trait of
empathy, the ability to vicariously experience how another is feeling, that
makes this possible, and it is the principle of empathy by which we should
live our lives.[57]
The above is from the website Ebon Musings
According to Greg M. Epstein, a Humanist chaplain at Harvard University,
'do unto others' ... is a concept that essentially no religion misses
entirely. But not a single one of these versions of the golden rule requires
a God.[58]
These eight words the Rede fulfill, 'an ye harm none do as ye will.
—The Wiccan Rede
Here ye these words and heed them well, the words of Dea, thy Mother Goddess,
I command thee thus, O children of the Earth, that that which ye deem
harmful unto thyself, the very same shall ye be forbidden from doing unto
another, for violence and hatred give rise to the same. My command is thus,
that ye shall return all violence and hatred with peacefulness and love, for
my Law is love unto all things. Only through love shall ye have peace; yea
and verily, only peace and love will cure the world, and subdue all evil.
—The Book of Ways, Devotional Wicca
19.
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the conventional age of Adam as referenced earlier in Against Nature. This age isn't about materialistic and paternalistic people treating people as if they were sheep. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697911-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv To quote Don C, According to Baha'u'llah, this is not merely a new Dispensation, but a new age, the Age of Maturity. As such, what we are going thru' is the greatest change to the functioning of human affairs since the mythic Time of Adam, when the Culture Hero societies replaced the Mother Goddess societies. The Adamic Cycle can be seen as the equivalent of going thru' puberty. We are now embarking on our maturity and it is time for us to grow up and take responsibility for our own affairs instead of waiting for mommy and daddy (kings/gov'ts/administrators) to tell us what to do. Rather, the new purpose of administrators is to remind us, repeatedly and persistently if necessary, what the proper principles should guide us. Shoghi Effendi made reference to this idea many years ago when he told local Assemblies to quit making up rules to enforce on their members. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:26, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the conventional age of Adam as referenced earlier in Against Nature. This age isn't about materialistic and paternalistic people treating people as if they were sheep. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697911-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697913-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv So basically from all the info we live in the Age of the New Religious Movement! Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:27, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv To quote Don C, According to Baha'u'llah, this is not merely a new Dispensation, but a new age, the Age of Maturity. As such, what we are going thru' is the greatest change to the functioning of human affairs since the mythic Time of Adam, when the Culture Hero societies replaced the Mother Goddess societies. The Adamic Cycle can be seen as the equivalent of going thru' puberty. We are now embarking on our maturity and it is time for us to grow up and take responsibility for our own affairs instead of waiting for mommy and daddy (kings/gov'ts/administrators) to tell us what to do. Rather, the new purpose of administrators is to remind us, repeatedly and persistently if necessary, what the proper principles should guide us. Shoghi Effendi made reference to this idea many years ago when he told local Assemblies to quit making up rules to enforce on their members. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:26, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the conventional age of Adam as referenced earlier in Against Nature. This age isn't about materialistic and paternalistic people treating people as if they were sheep. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697911-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697913-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697915-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) -
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Sounds like moral and ethical principles and not laws should be the center of this Age. Sounds like an Age of Antinomianism, no rules other than the Golden Rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:31, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv So basically from all the info we live in the Age of the New Religious Movement! Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:27, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv To quote Don C, According to Baha'u'llah, this is not merely a new Dispensation, but a new age, the Age of Maturity. As such, what we are going thru' is the greatest change to the functioning of human affairs since the mythic Time of Adam, when the Culture Hero societies replaced the Mother Goddess societies. The Adamic Cycle can be seen as the equivalent of going thru' puberty. We are now embarking on our maturity and it is time for us to grow up and take responsibility for our own affairs instead of waiting for mommy and daddy (kings/gov'ts/administrators) to tell us what to do. Rather, the new purpose of administrators is to remind us, repeatedly and persistently if necessary, what the proper principles should guide us. Shoghi Effendi made reference to this idea many years ago when he told local Assemblies to quit making up rules to enforce on their members. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:26, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the conventional age of Adam as referenced earlier in Against Nature. This age isn't about materialistic and paternalistic people treating people as if they were sheep. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697911-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697913-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697915-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Antinomianism is an extreme form of salvation by faith alone. As I understand it, Abdu'l-Baha accepted two ideas - Faith without works is dead; Deeds without faith is sterile. Doesn't fit with any discussion of antinomianism I've read. Don C On Apr 18, 2013, at 2:39 36PM, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: Sounds like moral and ethical principles and not laws should be the center of this Age. Sounds like an Age of Antinomianism, no rules other than the Golden Rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism --- It doesn't matter whether the sun shines if you never go outside. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697942-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv But by the same token, the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf states that one's past and *future* sins would be forgiven them if they counted forty waves while saying, God is the Most Great in Akka. There is also the Baha'i teaching of the progression of the soul after death, so every soul will eventually be at peace with God - but some may take longer than others, which is the incentive to live a good life now. It seems like a better deal than claiming that we get one chance, and one chance only, otherwise we will spend eternity in Hell. Those are just my thoughts anyway. *The Apostle of God—may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him—hath also said: “He that looketh upon the sea at eventide, and saith: ‘God is Most Great!’ at sunset, God will forgive his sins, though they be heaped as piles of sand. And he that counteth forty waves, while repeating: ‘God is Most Great!’—exalted be He—God will forgive his sins, both past and future*.” http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/ESW/esw-9.html On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Don Calkins don59...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Antinomianism is an extreme form of salvation by faith alone. As I understand it, Abdu'l-Baha accepted two ideas - Faith without works is dead; Deeds without faith is sterile. Doesn't fit with any discussion of antinomianism I've read. Don C On Apr 18, 2013, at 2:39 36PM, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: Sounds like moral and ethical principles and not laws should be the center of this Age. Sounds like an Age of Antinomianism, no rules other than the Golden Rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism --- It doesn't matter whether the sun shines if you never go outside. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697944-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv IMO, this is a reference to the True Believer who comes to Akka as a pilgrim to see Baha'u'llah. Don C On Apr 18, 2013, at 4:27 10PM, Matt Haase wrote: But by the same token, the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf states that one's past and future sins would be forgiven them if they counted forty waves while saying, God is the Most Great in Akka. There is also the Baha'i teaching of the progression of the soul after death, so every soul will eventually be at peace with God - but some may take longer than others, which is the incentive to live a good life now. It seems like a better deal than claiming that we get one chance, and one chance only, otherwise we will spend eternity in Hell. Those are just my thoughts anyway. The Apostle of God—may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him—hath also said: “He that looketh upon the sea at eventide, and saith: ‘God is Most Great!’ at sunset, God will forgive his sins, though they be heaped as piles of sand. And he that counteth forty waves, while repeating: ‘God is Most Great!’—exalted be He—God will forgive his sins, both past and future.” http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/ESW/esw-9.html - Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in nature. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697948-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: New Religious Movements and Post Conventional Morality
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Sorry, I'm not letting Kohlberg or you define for me or my religion the age in which we live. On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Stephen Kent Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv It's cause we live in a post conventional age unlike the conventional age of Adam as referenced earlier in Against Nature. This age isn't about materialistic and paternalistic people treating people as if they were sheep. Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:16, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I remember talking about these concepts earlier. Post conventional morality is based on a social contract and universal ethical principles without regards to specific terms on which they need to be based upon. Conventional morality is based on authority and conformity which requires a specific norm and everyone to conform to it. Pre conventional morality is based on rewards and punishments. Dear Stephen, As you have already pointed out these conceptions are all based on Kohlberg's ethical stages. The question is, is why should Baha'is feel constrained to fit into his categories and hierarchy? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697904-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697911-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697956-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
