Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Monday, 27 Apr 2015 at 20:36, Glyn Millington wrote: [...] > A mail alias is a group name for multiple mail recipients. At least > that's how I use 'em! ... whereas I use that entry most often as an alternative name, i.e. alias, for a single recipient. I do also use it for defining groups but much less often. For me, the name of the field was perfect. -- : Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D : in Emacs 25.0.50.1 + Ma Gnus v0.12 + evil-git-8c93648 : BBDB version 3.1.2 (2014-05-06 11:45:08 -0500) -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Glyn Millington writes: > Phil Hudson writes: > >> On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 at 10:34:32 am BST, Phil Hudson >> wrote: >> >>> The term "mail alias" itself seems to me to be poorly chosen, > >> Replying to myself... I've thought of one, namely Gnus' use of "group" >> (meaning/derived from "newsgroup") for what most MUAs call "mailbox", >> "folder" or "label". So... how about substituting "mailing-list" for >> "mail-alias" throughout? >> >> Both "list" and "group" lose the sense that "alias" has of being >> applicable to either an individual or a group. Maybe that's a reason for >> keeping "mail-alias". >> >> Now I'm leaning toward declaring a matching *-mailing-list-* (Lisp) >> alias for each *-mail-alias-* declaration, without declaring anything >> obsolete. I would add " (that is, a mailing list)" or the moral >> equivalent to each occurrence of "mail alias" in the doc strings. >> >> This is tricky stuff. I don't want to make things worse with an >> ill-considered change. Maybe I should let it drop for now. > > > Terminological changes can be tricky, and seem to provoke very long > threads on other emacs-related groups! > > I think Eric's suggestion/hint/encouragement about a bbdb(3) manual is > probably the answer, but I'm not remotely qualified to tackle such a > thing. I find that Google plus a certain amount of grubbing round in > the source code usually get me there. I wrote about a third of one and then ran out of steam. Maybe I can dig that up and provide it as a start... -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Phil Hudson writes: > On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 at 10:34:32 am BST, Phil Hudson > wrote: > >> The term "mail alias" itself seems to me to be poorly chosen, > Replying to myself... I've thought of one, namely Gnus' use of "group" > (meaning/derived from "newsgroup") for what most MUAs call "mailbox", > "folder" or "label". So... how about substituting "mailing-list" for > "mail-alias" throughout? > > Both "list" and "group" lose the sense that "alias" has of being > applicable to either an individual or a group. Maybe that's a reason for > keeping "mail-alias". > > Now I'm leaning toward declaring a matching *-mailing-list-* (Lisp) > alias for each *-mail-alias-* declaration, without declaring anything > obsolete. I would add " (that is, a mailing list)" or the moral > equivalent to each occurrence of "mail alias" in the doc strings. > > This is tricky stuff. I don't want to make things worse with an > ill-considered change. Maybe I should let it drop for now. Terminological changes can be tricky, and seem to provoke very long threads on other emacs-related groups! I think Eric's suggestion/hint/encouragement about a bbdb(3) manual is probably the answer, but I'm not remotely qualified to tackle such a thing. I find that Google plus a certain amount of grubbing round in the source code usually get me there. atb Glyn -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 at 10:34:32 am BST, Phil Hudson wrote: > The term "mail alias" itself seems to me to be poorly chosen, bespeaking > an inward-looking, comp-sci-technical, "historical reasons" (IOW no > reason) viewpoint rather than an outward-looking, user- and > usability-focused one. Much as I love the Unix way, this is an example > of where Unix tradition sucks and is really user hostile. We're talking > about *lists* and/or *groups*, not "aliases". *Those* are the words most > users will expect and look for; those are the words BBDB should use. > > I suggest we standardize on "group". I can rename and write a > `define-obsolete-*-alias' declaration for each existing `*-mail-alias' > declaration and -- the important bit -- update the doc strings. That > seems consistent with the way v3 has tried to rename lots of opaque and > unintuitive "legacy" symbol names thus far. Maintainers can then > gradually eliminate the "obsolete symbol" compiler warnings over time. > > Before I (attempt to) code this and submit a patch, can anyone see a > reason I've missed why it's a bad idea? Replying to myself... I've thought of one, namely Gnus' use of "group" (meaning/derived from "newsgroup") for what most MUAs call "mailbox", "folder" or "label". So... how about substituting "mailing-list" for "mail-alias" throughout? Both "list" and "group" lose the sense that "alias" has of being applicable to either an individual or a group. Maybe that's a reason for keeping "mail-alias". Now I'm leaning toward declaring a matching *-mailing-list-* (Lisp) alias for each *-mail-alias-* declaration, without declaring anything obsolete. I would add " (that is, a mailing list)" or the moral equivalent to each occurrence of "mail alias" in the doc strings. This is tricky stuff. I don't want to make things worse with an ill-considered change. Maybe I should let it drop for now. -- Phil Hudson http://hudson-it.ddns.net @UWascalWabbit PGP/GnuPG ID: 0x887DCA63 -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 at 2:51:52 am BST, Nikolaus Rath wrote: > I'm a little flabbergasted by this though. Why is there a need for a > fallback in the first place? I think nil should be interpreted like the > documentation say: do nothing. I agree. We have a breach! A breach of the "Principle of Least Astonishment". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishment -- Phil Hudson http://hudson-it.ddns.net @UWascalWabbit PGP/GnuPG ID: 0x887DCA63 -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Apr 28 2015, Glyn Millington wrote: > Nikolaus Rath writes: >> On Apr 28 2015, Glyn Millington wrote: >>> Nikolaus Rath writes: >>> Well, yes, if you don't pass 'gnus to the bbdb-mua-auto-update-init function, then it won't parse any Gnus article buffers. However, I *want* bbdb3 to parse the Gnus article buffers under same conditions. I tried implemeting this conditions in a custom bbdb-mua-auto-update-p functions, but it did not work. When debugging this, I found out that even the trivial case of setting bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to nil does not prevent bbdb from parsing the gnus buffers - thus my question here. To me this looks like a bug. Am I missing something? >>> >>> Not sure! I've pasted that chunk of your config down below to comment >>> in it. >>> I'm using bbdb 3.1.2. I have the following configuration: (require 'bbdb) (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message) (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message) (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t bbdb-mua-auto-update-p nil >>> >>> So it won't automatically update but >>> >>> bbdb-update-records-p 'query >>> >>> It will ASK if you want to update >> >> No. According to the documentation, this is the return value for >> `bbdb-select-message`. But bbdb select message should never be called if >> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p is nil. > > Now you have me intrigued! Rummaging around in the source code for what > might invoke bbdb-select-message I found this: > > (defcustom bbdb/gnus-update-records-p > (lambda () (let ((bbdb-update-records-p 'query)) >(bbdb-select-message))) > "How `bbdb-mua-update-records' processes mail addresses in Gnus. > This Gnus-specific variable is normally not used. It is a fallback > if the generic (MUA-independent) variables `bbdb-mua-auto-update-p', > `bbdb-update-records-p' or `bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p' result > in a value of nil for the arg UPDATE-P of `bbdb-update-records'. > > Does that explain why bbdb-select-message is being called despite > bbdb-mua-auto-update-p being nil? Yes, I think that's it. Thanks a lot! I'm a little flabbergasted by this though. Why is there a need for a fallback in the first place? I think nil should be interpreted like the documentation say: do nothing. Best, -Nikolaus -- GPG encrypted emails preferred. Key id: 0xD113FCAC3C4E599F Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.« -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 at 2:35:06 pm BST, Piet van Oostrum wrote: > In BBDB 3.1.2 there is no bbdb-define-all-aliases. It should be > bbdb-mail-aliases, as mentioned in some earlier messages on this list. So the > wiki should be updated. Done. -- Phil Hudson http://hudson-it.ddns.net @UWascalWabbit PGP/GnuPG ID: 0x887DCA63 -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Nikolaus Rath writes: > On Apr 28 2015, Glyn Millington wrote: > >> Nikolaus Rath writes: >> >>> >>> Well, yes, if you don't pass 'gnus to the bbdb-mua-auto-update-init >>> function, then it won't parse any Gnus article buffers. >>> >>> However, I *want* bbdb3 to parse the Gnus article buffers under same >>> conditions. I tried implemeting this conditions in a custom >>> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p functions, but it did not work. When debugging >>> this, I found out that even the trivial case of setting >>> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to nil does not prevent bbdb from parsing the >>> gnus buffers - thus my question here. >>> >>> To me this looks like a bug. Am I missing something? >> >> Not sure! I've pasted that chunk of your config down below to comment >> in it. >> >>> I'm using bbdb 3.1.2. I have the following configuration: >>> >>> (require 'bbdb) >>> (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message) >>> (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message) >>> (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t >>> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p nil >> >> So it won't automatically update but >> >> >>> bbdb-update-records-p 'query >> >> It will ASK if you want to update > > No. According to the documentation, this is the return value for > `bbdb-select-message`. But bbdb select message should never be called if > bbdb-mua-auto-update-p is nil. Now you have me intrigued! Rummaging around in the source code for what might invoke bbdb-select-message I found this: (defcustom bbdb/gnus-update-records-p (lambda () (let ((bbdb-update-records-p 'query)) (bbdb-select-message))) "How `bbdb-mua-update-records' processes mail addresses in Gnus. This Gnus-specific variable is normally not used. It is a fallback if the generic (MUA-independent) variables `bbdb-mua-auto-update-p', `bbdb-update-records-p' or `bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p' result in a value of nil for the arg UPDATE-P of `bbdb-update-records'. Does that explain why bbdb-select-message is being called despite bbdb-mua-auto-update-p being nil? Way out of my depth here! >> That being said, I'm not clear what it is you are trying to achieve. It >> might help to post your custom bbdb-mua-auto-update-p and explain what >> you are hoping will result. > > Well, I really just want bbdb to stop ignoring the > bbdb-mua-auto-update-p variable. I think that before that works, there > is little point in setting it to a custom function and posting that > function. > > That said, my eventual goal is to have bbdb automatically update > addresses in only some Gnus groups. Might be worth flagging that up in a new thread? atb Glyn -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Apr 28 2015, Glyn Millington wrote: > Nikolaus Rath writes: > >> >> Well, yes, if you don't pass 'gnus to the bbdb-mua-auto-update-init >> function, then it won't parse any Gnus article buffers. >> >> However, I *want* bbdb3 to parse the Gnus article buffers under same >> conditions. I tried implemeting this conditions in a custom >> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p functions, but it did not work. When debugging >> this, I found out that even the trivial case of setting >> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to nil does not prevent bbdb from parsing the >> gnus buffers - thus my question here. >> >> To me this looks like a bug. Am I missing something? > > Not sure! I've pasted that chunk of your config down below to comment > in it. > >> I'm using bbdb 3.1.2. I have the following configuration: >> >> (require 'bbdb) >> (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message) >> (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message) >> (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t >> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p nil > > So it won't automatically update but > > >> bbdb-update-records-p 'query > > It will ASK if you want to update No. According to the documentation, this is the return value for `bbdb-select-message`. But bbdb select message should never be called if bbdb-mua-auto-update-p is nil. > That being said, I'm not clear what it is you are trying to achieve. It > might help to post your custom bbdb-mua-auto-update-p and explain what > you are hoping will result. Well, I really just want bbdb to stop ignoring the bbdb-mua-auto-update-p variable. I think that before that works, there is little point in setting it to a custom function and posting that function. That said, my eventual goal is to have bbdb automatically update addresses in only some Gnus groups. Best, -Nikolaus -- GPG encrypted emails preferred. Key id: 0xD113FCAC3C4E599F Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.« -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Nikolaus Rath writes:
>
> Well, yes, if you don't pass 'gnus to the bbdb-mua-auto-update-init
> function, then it won't parse any Gnus article buffers.
>
> However, I *want* bbdb3 to parse the Gnus article buffers under same
> conditions. I tried implemeting this conditions in a custom
> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p functions, but it did not work. When debugging
> this, I found out that even the trivial case of setting
> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to nil does not prevent bbdb from parsing the
> gnus buffers - thus my question here.
>
> To me this looks like a bug. Am I missing something?
Not sure! I've pasted that chunk of your config down below to comment
in it.
> I'm using bbdb 3.1.2. I have the following configuration:
>
> (require 'bbdb)
> (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
> (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)
> (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t
> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p nil
So it won't automatically update but
> bbdb-update-records-p 'query
It will ASK if you want to update
> bbdb-ignore-message-alist
> '(("From" . "bugzilla-daemon")))
>
I'm only replying because no-one else did, in the hope that my folly
might provoke Those Who Know to action :-)
That being said, I'm not clear what it is you are trying to achieve. It
might help to post your custom bbdb-mua-auto-update-p and explain what
you are hoping will result.
atb
Glyn
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Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Apr 27 2015, Glyn Millington wrote:
I'm using bbdb 3.1.2. I have the following configuration:
(require 'bbdb)
(bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
(bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)
(setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t
bbdb-mua-auto-update-p nil
bbdb-update-records-p 'query
bbdb-ignore-message-alist
'(("From" . "bugzilla-daemon")))
As I understand, setting bbdb-mua-auto-update-p should prevent bbdb from
attempting to automatically update records. However, every time I select
any article in Gnus, bbdb asks me if I want to create or update the
records of the sender and recipients.
>>>
>>> ... and conversely, even if I set bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to 'query, it
>>> does not ask me to update recipient records when composing and sending a
>>> message using message-mode.
>>>
>>> I feel like I'm missing something obvious...
>
> This is part of my set-up.
>
> (setq bbdb-file "~/.emacs.d/.bbdb")
> (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message 'anniv)
> (setq bbdb-complete-mail-allow-cycling t)
> ;; control pop-up and it's size
> (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t)
> (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up-window-size 0.1)
> (setq bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p '(query . create))
> (setq bbdb-message-all-addresses t)
> (add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-mail-aliases)
>
> This works as you want it to work I think.
Well, yes, if you don't pass 'gnus to the bbdb-mua-auto-update-init
function, then it won't parse any Gnus article buffers.
However, I *want* bbdb3 to parse the Gnus article buffers under same
conditions. I tried implemeting this conditions in a custom
bbdb-mua-auto-update-p functions, but it did not work. When debugging
this, I found out that even the trivial case of setting
bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to nil does not prevent bbdb from parsing the
gnus buffers - thus my question here.
To me this looks like a bug. Am I missing something?
Best,
-Nikolaus
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Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Glyn Millington wrote: > Tab is bound to message-x-tab, which of course comes from the message-x > package, which interacts with bbdb. Wow. I installed that and now it works. Thanks. My year-long (at least) quest finally finished. -- Piet van Oostrum WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/ PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4] -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Piet van Oostrum writes: > Glyn Millington wrote: > > > Piet van Oostrum writes: > > > > > In BBDB 3.1.2 there is no bbdb-define-all-aliases. It should be > bbdb-mail-aliases, as mentioned in some earlier messages on this list. So the > wiki should be updated. > > > > > > What bbdb-mail-aliases is supposed to do, is to add the mail-aliases > > > from BBDB to the variable mail-aliases, in addition to those from > > > .mailrc. > > > > Thank you for clarifying that! That's great. > > > > > One other thing that bothers me: If I remember correctly, in BBDB V2 I > > > could type one of the aliases in the To: field, press TAB and it would > > > expand to a list of the mail addresses linked to this alias. But that > > > no longer works. Or is my memory incorrect? > > > > Hmmm - your memory is correct (or we share he same false memory!) - for > > me it worked that way in v2, and still does in v 3 ! > > > So what is your TAB bound to? Hah - brain engages finally Tab is bound to message-x-tab, which of course comes from the message-x package, which interacts with bbdb. atb Glyn -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Glyn Millington wrote: > Piet van Oostrum writes: > > > In BBDB 3.1.2 there is no bbdb-define-all-aliases. It should be > > bbdb-mail-aliases, as mentioned in some earlier messages on this list. So > > the wiki should be updated. > > > > What bbdb-mail-aliases is supposed to do, is to add the mail-aliases > > from BBDB to the variable mail-aliases, in addition to those from > > .mailrc. > > Thank you for clarifying that! That's great. > > > One other thing that bothers me: If I remember correctly, in BBDB V2 I > > could type one of the aliases in the To: field, press TAB and it would > > expand to a list of the mail addresses linked to this alias. But that > > no longer works. Or is my memory incorrect? > > Hmmm - your memory is correct (or we share he same false memory!) - for > me it worked that way in v2, and still does in v 3 ! > So what is your TAB bound to? -- Piet van Oostrum WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/ PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4] -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 at 9:48:56 am BST, Glyn Millington wrote: > Yes. There are two. They are independent. > > But message.el can use either. Got it. Thanks. -- Phil Hudson http://hudson-it.ddns.net @UWascalWabbit PGP/GnuPG ID: 0x887DCA63 -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 8:36:34 pm BST, Glyn Millington wrote: > mail-alias - I believe this is defined in bbdb.el You can insert that > field into a record using the instructions offered here: > > http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BbdbMailingLists Thanks for that. I've tried it and it works exactly as described. I never know whether EmacsWiki BBDB pages are up-to-date for BBDBv3 or not, so I tend to ignore them. I'll annotate that page to say it applies to v3. Before I do, can anyone confirm that these instructions are unchanged from v2? WRT this, from the wiki page: > You also need to tell the BBDB to define the mail abbreviations for > you. This depends on the mail package you use – here is the code for > your ~/.emacs for both plain mail-mode, or the message-mode that comes > with Gnus. > > (add-hook 'mail-setup-hook 'bbdb-define-all-aliases) > (add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-define-all-aliases) I wonder what the use-case is for *not* enabling this by default, say as part of `bbdb-insinuate-*'? Should automatic mail-alias marshalling not be the default behavior? What would anyone gain by *not* having it? Turning it off should be the configurable option, not turning it on, don't you think? Otherwise, a powerful and (for many years now) standard contact-list/address-book feature may lie undiscovered and unused for many months -- as it did for me. The current approach impedes user access and presents barriers, for no concomitant benefit, IMO. I always advocate an opinionated, batteries-included, no-config approach wherever possible. What do you all think? The term "mail alias" itself seems to me to be poorly chosen, bespeaking an inward-looking, comp-sci-technical, "historical reasons" (IOW no reason) viewpoint rather than an outward-looking, user- and usability-focused one. Much as I love the Unix way, this is an example of where Unix tradition sucks and is really user hostile. We're talking about *lists* and/or *groups*, not "aliases". *Those* are the words most users will expect and look for; those are the words BBDB should use. I suggest we standardize on "group". I can rename and write a `define-obsolete-*-alias' declaration for each existing `*-mail-alias' declaration and -- the important bit -- update the doc strings. That seems consistent with the way v3 has tried to rename lots of opaque and unintuitive "legacy" symbol names thus far. Maintainers can then gradually eliminate the "obsolete symbol" compiler warnings over time. Before I (attempt to) code this and submit a patch, can anyone see a reason I've missed why it's a bad idea? -- Phil Hudson http://hudson-it.ddns.net @UWascalWabbit PGP/GnuPG ID: 0x887DCA63 -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Phil Hudson writes: > On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 at 2:09:26 am BST, Eric Abrahamsen > wrote: > >> Phil Hudson writes: >> >>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 5:59:07 pm BST, Glyn Millington >>> wrote: >>> (add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-mail-aliases) >>> >>> This led me to the documentation for bbdb-mail-aliases, which leads me >>> to ask for an explanation of what a mail alias is. My guess is that it's >>> either a unique nickname for a mail recipient, or a group name for >>> multiple mail recipients, or possibly both/either. >>> >>> I've just checked, and as I thought, "mail-alias" is an unknown field >>> type which I am asked to define. Before I go ahead, what does "defining" >>> a field type involve? >> >> "Defining" a field type just means you're using a non-builtin field type >> for the first time, and BBDB is checking to make sure that you really >> wanted to do that. Once one of your records has this kind of field, you >> won't be asked again, and the field will be available as a completion >> option when adding fields to other contacts. That's all! > > Thanks for the explanation. That's no problem as far as it goes, but I > wonder whether something with API support shouldn't be built-in and > available by default? There's a certain impedance mismatch there, it > seems to me. > > So, that's an RFE from me: don't ask the user to define the mail-alias > type, have it ready for use out of the box, please. FWIW, I agree that fields that already have defined behavior should probably be "pre-installed". -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 8:36:34 pm BST, Glyn Millington wrote: > 'mail-alias' refers to aliases set up in a special > file, usually called .mailrc. I'm not clear that this is involved with > the bbdb at all. Now this is really confusing. Are there two different mail-alias systems, one involving .mailrc and the other involving BBDB fields? Or only one? If both, are they somehow integrated/overlapping, or are they independent? -- Phil Hudson http://hudson-it.ddns.net @UWascalWabbit PGP/GnuPG ID: 0x887DCA63 -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 at 2:09:26 am BST, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > Phil Hudson writes: > >> On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 5:59:07 pm BST, Glyn Millington >> wrote: >> >>> (add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-mail-aliases) >> >> This led me to the documentation for bbdb-mail-aliases, which leads me >> to ask for an explanation of what a mail alias is. My guess is that it's >> either a unique nickname for a mail recipient, or a group name for >> multiple mail recipients, or possibly both/either. >> >> I've just checked, and as I thought, "mail-alias" is an unknown field >> type which I am asked to define. Before I go ahead, what does "defining" >> a field type involve? > > "Defining" a field type just means you're using a non-builtin field type > for the first time, and BBDB is checking to make sure that you really > wanted to do that. Once one of your records has this kind of field, you > won't be asked again, and the field will be available as a completion > option when adding fields to other contacts. That's all! Thanks for the explanation. That's no problem as far as it goes, but I wonder whether something with API support shouldn't be built-in and available by default? There's a certain impedance mismatch there, it seems to me. So, that's an RFE from me: don't ask the user to define the mail-alias type, have it ready for use out of the box, please. (I take it that I got the purpose of mail-alias fields right.) -- Phil Hudson http://hudson-it.ddns.net @UWascalWabbit PGP/GnuPG ID: 0x887DCA63 -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Phil Hudson writes: > On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 5:59:07 pm BST, Glyn Millington > wrote: > >> (add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-mail-aliases) > > This led me to the documentation for bbdb-mail-aliases, which leads me > to ask for an explanation of what a mail alias is. My guess is that it's > either a unique nickname for a mail recipient, or a group name for > multiple mail recipients, or possibly both/either. > > I've just checked, and as I thought, "mail-alias" is an unknown field > type which I am asked to define. Before I go ahead, what does "defining" > a field type involve? "Defining" a field type just means you're using a non-builtin field type for the first time, and BBDB is checking to make sure that you really wanted to do that. Once one of your records has this kind of field, you won't be asked again, and the field will be available as a completion option when adding fields to other contacts. That's all! -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Phil Hudson writes: > On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 5:59:07 pm BST, Glyn Millington > wrote: > >> (add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-mail-aliases) > > This led me to the documentation for bbdb-mail-aliases, which leads me > to ask for an explanation of what a mail alias is. My guess is that it's > either a unique nickname for a mail recipient, or a group name for > multiple mail recipients, or possibly both/either. > > I've just checked, and as I thought, "mail-alias" is an unknown field > type which I am asked to define. Before I go ahead, what does "defining" > a field type involve? A mail alias is a group name for multiple mail recipients. At least that's how I use 'em! 'mail-alias' refers to aliases set up in a special file, usually called .mailrc. I'm not clear that this is involved with the bbdb at all. 'bbdb-mail-aliases' is a function which allows 'message' to take advantage of bbdb's mail-aliasing facilities. mail-alias - I believe this is defined in bbdb.el You can insert that field into a record using the instructions offered here: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BbdbMailingLists I hope I have understood your question - forgive me if not. atb Glyn -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 5:59:07 pm BST, Glyn Millington wrote: > (add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-mail-aliases) This led me to the documentation for bbdb-mail-aliases, which leads me to ask for an explanation of what a mail alias is. My guess is that it's either a unique nickname for a mail recipient, or a group name for multiple mail recipients, or possibly both/either. I've just checked, and as I thought, "mail-alias" is an unknown field type which I am asked to define. Before I go ahead, what does "defining" a field type involve? -- Phil Hudson http://hudson-it.ddns.net @UWascalWabbit PGP/GnuPG ID: 0x887DCA63 -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
Nikolaus Rath writes:
> On Apr 22 2015, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>
>> On Apr 22 2015, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm using bbdb 3.1.2. I have the following configuration:
>>>
>>> (require 'bbdb)
>>> (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
>>> (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)
>>> (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t
>>> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p nil
>>> bbdb-update-records-p 'query
>>> bbdb-ignore-message-alist
>>> '(("From" . "bugzilla-daemon")))
>>>
>>>
>>> As I understand, setting bbdb-mua-auto-update-p should prevent bbdb from
>>> attempting to automatically update records. However, every time I select
>>> any article in Gnus, bbdb asks me if I want to create or update the
>>> records of the sender and recipients.
>>
>> ... and conversely, even if I set bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to 'query, it
>> does not ask me to update recipient records when composing and sending a
>> message using message-mode.
>>
>> I feel like I'm missing something obvious...
>
> *ping*
>
> Really no one able to help?
Hi Nikolaus,
This is part of my set-up.
(setq bbdb-file "~/.emacs.d/.bbdb")
(bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message 'anniv)
(setq bbdb-complete-mail-allow-cycling t)
;; control pop-up and it's size
(setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t)
(setq bbdb-mua-pop-up-window-size 0.1)
(setq bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p '(query . create))
(setq bbdb-message-all-addresses t)
(add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-mail-aliases)
This works as you want it to work I think.
Good luck!
Glyn
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Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Apr 22 2015, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> On Apr 22 2015, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm using bbdb 3.1.2. I have the following configuration:
>>
>> (require 'bbdb)
>> (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
>> (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)
>> (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t
>> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p nil
>> bbdb-update-records-p 'query
>> bbdb-ignore-message-alist
>> '(("From" . "bugzilla-daemon")))
>>
>>
>> As I understand, setting bbdb-mua-auto-update-p should prevent bbdb from
>> attempting to automatically update records. However, every time I select
>> any article in Gnus, bbdb asks me if I want to create or update the
>> records of the sender and recipients.
>
> ... and conversely, even if I set bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to 'query, it
> does not ask me to update recipient records when composing and sending a
> message using message-mode.
>
> I feel like I'm missing something obvious...
*ping*
Really no one able to help?
Best,
-Nikolaus
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Re: bbdb3 won't stop auto-updating records
On Apr 22 2015, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm using bbdb 3.1.2. I have the following configuration:
>
> (require 'bbdb)
> (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
> (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)
> (setq bbdb-mua-pop-up t
> bbdb-mua-auto-update-p nil
> bbdb-update-records-p 'query
> bbdb-ignore-message-alist
> '(("From" . "bugzilla-daemon")))
>
>
> As I understand, setting bbdb-mua-auto-update-p should prevent bbdb from
> attempting to automatically update records. However, every time I select
> any article in Gnus, bbdb asks me if I want to create or update the
> records of the sender and recipients.
... and conversely, even if I set bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to 'query, it
does not ask me to update recipient records when composing and sending a
message using message-mode.
I feel like I'm missing something obvious...
Best,
-Nikolaus
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