Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-03 Thread Roy Badami
the SI prefixes. People *do* use 63k USD, $63k, and $3M. I'll be the first one As a counter argument, many sources (including the BBC) abbreviate million to 'm' (and billion to 'bn'), e.g. $3m, $3bn. I think any similarity with SI units here is coincidental. roy

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-03 Thread Jannis Froese
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03.05.2014 02:54, Ben Davenport wrote: No one quotes amounts as 63 k$ or 3 M$. The accepted standard at least in the US is currency-symbolamountmodifier, i.e. $63k or $3M. As you said, that's in the US, and I strongly suspect the sole reason

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Jeff Garzik
vendor hat: on Related: http://blog.bitpay.com/2014/05/02/bitpay-bitcoin-and-where-to-put-that-decimal-point.html -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Ben Davenport
I fully support this (it's what I suggested over a year ago), but what it comes down to is BitPay, Coinbase, Blockchain and Bitstamp getting together, agreeing what they're going to use, and doing a little joint customer education campaign around it. If there's community momentum around bits,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Aaron Voisine
It will also be important to chose the currency symbol for bits at the same time. Lowercase stroke b I think is the obvious choice. Unicode U+0180 Aaron On Friday, May 2, 2014, Alan Reiner etothe...@gmail.com wrote: I've been a strong supporter of the 1e-6 unit switch since the beginning and

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Matias Alejo Garcia
I live in Argentina. Here, 1BTC is around half of a monthly average wage (net), so, as you can imagine, the value of 1 BTC is *very* inconvenient for everyday transactions. Also it presents an important entry barrier for new adopters: It would be easier to accept buying thousands of bits than

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Luke Dashjr
On Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:54:37 AM Ben Davenport wrote: My only addition is that I think we should all stop trying to attach SI prefixes to the currency unit. Name me another world currency that uses SI prefixes. No one quotes amounts as 63 k$ or 3 M$. The accepted standard at least in the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Ben Davenport
Luke, My point is that you never apply the prefixes to the currency unit itself. We don't spend kilodollars or megadollars. Ben On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Luke Dashjr l...@dashjr.org wrote: On Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:54:37 AM Ben Davenport wrote: My only addition is that I think we

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Peter Todd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Huh? Your examples demonstrate the *opposite* of your point. 'k' and 'M' *are* the SI prefixes. People *do* use 63k USD, $63k, and $3M. Excellent point. Also, I frequently hear statements referring to mili-bitcoins, mBTC, pronounced as

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Un Ix
Think your example is not quite valid ... People say or write $88M or $45k I.e. use SI prefix as a suffix, else it would be more, not less, clear on what amount is being referred to. For me, bits are easy to say and one million as a factor is simple to understand. M-bits, kilobits, millibits,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-05-02 Thread Tamas Blummer
Excellent move Jeff. Best would now be to establish XBT as the ISO code for bits. Regards, Tamas Blummer http://bitsofproof.com On 02.05.2014, at 21:17, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: vendor hat: on Related:

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Andreas Schildbach
btw. None of Bitcoin Wallet's users complained about confusion because of the mBTC switch. In contrast, I get many mails and questions if exchange rates happen to differ by 10%. I suspect nobody looks at the Bitcoin price. It's the amount in local currency that matters to the users. On

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Tamas Blummer
You give them a hard to interpret thing like mBTC and then wonder why they rather look at local currency. Because the choices you gave them are bad. I think Bitcoin would have a better chance to be percieved as a currency of its own if it had prices and fractions like currencies do. 3.558 mBTC

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Roy Badami
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 03:05:25PM +0100, Andreas Schildbach wrote: btw. None of Bitcoin Wallet's users complained about confusion because of the mBTC switch. In contrast, I get many mails and questions if exchange rates happen to differ by 10%. At the moment, I imagine the vast majority of

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Tamas Blummer
you miss the point Andreas. It is not about the magnitude but about the form of a price. A number with no decimals or with two decimals is percieved as a price in some currency. A number with more than two decimals is just not percieved as a price but as a geeky something that you rather

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Andreas Schildbach
By that definition 3.56 is a price. Maybe I misunderstood you and you're lobbying for mBTC? On 03/14/2014 03:57 PM, Tamas Blummer wrote: you miss the point Andreas. It is not about the magnitude but about the form of a price. A number with no decimals or with two decimals is percieved as a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Tamas Blummer
I think you want to misunderstand me Andreas. It is astonishing arrogance to define the units because we in Bitcoin are used to some wierd notation and ignore that the vast majority of population and financial software in existence does not have a notion of prices with more than two decimals.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Tyler
You give them a hard to interpret thing like mBTC and then wonder why they rather look at local currency. Because the choices you gave them are bad. I don't think this is particularly true. The options people are given are all good in this case and all have their merits. The reason people are

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Andreas Schildbach
I don't know about financial software. I really don't get what you mean by weird notation? Bitcoin Wallet is made for ordinary users. They are used to real-world prices like EUR 1.63 / USD 2.26 (that would be the Espresso example). How can mBTC 3.56 be weird to these people? Granted, there are

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Alex Morcos
I think Mark makes some good arguments. I realize this would only add to the confusion, but... What if we did relabel 100 satoshis to be some new kind of unit (bit or whatever else), with a proper 3 letter code, and then from a user standpoint, where people are using mBTC, they could switch to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Andrew Smith
Well, not sure I wanted to subscribe the mbtc vs ubtc list... its a default, not a big deal. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Ricardo Filipe
so much discussion for a visual update... make this a user experiment: -give the user the possibility to use BTC/mBTC/uMTC -retrieve the results after some time -make the default the most used option 2014-03-14 16:15 GMT+00:00 Alex Morcos mor...@gmail.com: I think Mark makes some good

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Allen Piscitello
Fairly useless experiment, since the vast majority of users will almost always stay at the default. The winner will always be whatever was selected as the default initially. This might work if the default was randomly chosen, and you see what actually annoyed users enough to switch off of it

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread vv01f
I think * if we change to mBTC because your state currencys price for bitcoin make this a valid option we will change again in future * users do not like changes * we should keep a good standard A good standard should be * built on standards (e.g. SI) * backed by best practice: never force the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Natanael
Regarding (ISO standards) currency symbols, XBT is already used as equivalent to 1 Bitcoin in numerous places, and XBC is taken and BT* belongs to Bhutan (and X** is already the default for non-national currency common items of trade), so IMHO we should define something like XUB as microbitcoins

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-14 Thread Odinn Cyberguerrilla
Hello, I see a lot of talk on this topic and get the senst that it is focused on default display only regarding the mBTC / uBTC questions. However, if the focus is broader, involving whether or how to express other currencies or moving further along to what that might even mean (since many

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Jeff Garzik
Resurrecting this topic. Bitcoin Wallet moved to mBTC several weeks ago, which was disappointing -- it sounded like the consensus was uBTC, and moving to uBTC later --which will happen-- may result in additional user confusion, thanks to yet another decimal place transition. On Sun, Nov 17,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Gary Rowe
The MultiBit HD view is that this is a locale-sensitive presentation issue. As a result we offer a simple configuration panel giving pretty much every possible combination: icon, m+icon, μ+icon, BTC, mBTC, μBTC, XBT, mXBT, μXBT, sat along with settings for leading/trailing symbol, commas,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Mike Hearn
The standard has become mBTC and that's what was adopted. It's too late to try and sway this on a mailing list thread now. On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Gary Rowe g.r...@froot.co.uk wrote: The MultiBit HD view is that this is a locale-sensitive presentation issue. As a result we offer a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Wladimir
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: Resurrecting this topic. Bitcoin Wallet moved to mBTC several weeks ago, which was disappointing -- it sounded like the consensus was uBTC, and moving to uBTC later --which will happen-- may result in additional user

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Andreas Schildbach
Indeed. And users were crying for mBTC. Nobody was asking for µBTC. I must admit I was not aware if this thread. I just watched other wallets and at some point decided its time to switch to mBTC. On 03/13/2014 02:31 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: The standard has become mBTC and that's what was

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Jeff Garzik
vendor hat: on Based on this seeming consensus, BitPay was headed towards uBTC internally, and hoped to coordinate messaging and rollout with others in the community. Ah well, proceed apace, and Bitcoin Wallet will catch up, I suppose. Multiple unit changes negatively impact users, but we are

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Mike Hearn
BitPay should use mBTC as well. Unless you can point to any major wallets, exchanges or price watching sites that use uBTC by default? I think it is highly optimistic to assume we'll need another 1000x shift any time soon. By now Bitcoin isn't obscure anymore. Lots of people have heard about it.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: BitPay should use mBTC as well. Unless you can point to any major wallets, exchanges or price watching sites that use uBTC by default? I think it is highly optimistic to assume we'll need another 1000x shift any time soon. By

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Tamas Blummer
Jeff's arguments are understood and supported by those who worked in finance. Existing financial applications have often problems dealing with more than 2 decimals. People who work in finance are used to two decimals. Neither systems nor people in finance have a problem with large numbers

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Alan Reiner
On 03/13/2014 10:32 AM, Jeff Garzik wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: BitPay should use mBTC as well. Unless you can point to any major wallets, exchanges or price watching sites that use uBTC by default? I think it is highly optimistic to assume we'll

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 04:50:14PM +0100, Mike Hearn wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: Such hand-wavy, data-free logic is precisely why community coordination is preferred to random apps making random decisions in this manner. That ship

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
cynic hat: on Every volatility bump messes up expectations of what a bitcoin is worth, so why are we bikeshedding uBTC vs mBTC? Just be done with it and do mBTC now, and plan uBTC for just after the next price spike to $10KUSD or whatever, and then plan on rolling back to mBTC when the price

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Tamas Blummer
On 13.03.2014, at 17:14, Alan Reiner etothe...@gmail.com wrote: We've been working with Marty Zigman who's creating a Bitcoin plugin for NetSuite accounting platform, and he was already forced to switch micro-BTC long ago for exactly the reasons described above. I think the system will

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Tamas Blummer
BTW, its not like this would be the first time this was raised, instead the ship left while ignoring arguments. The idea of is up there for votes since March 2013 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149150.0 and received the most votes. I remembered this last time on this list here:

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Melvin Carvalho
On 13 March 2014 16:50, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: Such hand-wavy, data-free logic is precisely why community coordination is preferred to random apps making random decisions in this manner. That ship sailed

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Allen Piscitello
Mike is making an assumption that is not necessary, which is the price of the most commonly used unit should be between is $.50 and $1000. The issue to revisit or not shouldn't require $1,000,000 Bitcoin price. Typing a ton of decimals is incredibly annoying. Doing the mental math in my head is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Mike Hearn
Even if a cup of coffee costs 3.12345 mBTC, that's a lot more annoying than 3123.45 uBTC. This is subjective though. To me the first price looks like the price of a cup of coffee (or I just mentally double it). The second looks like the price of an expensive holiday. If users really find

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Mark Friedenbach
This ship may have already sailed, but... Using milli- and micro- notation for currency units is also not very well supported. Last time this thread was active, I believe there was a suggestion to use 1 XBT == 1 uBTC. This would bring us completely within the realm of supported behavior in

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Mark Friedenbach m...@monetize.io wrote: Using milli- and micro- notation for currency units is also not very well supported. Last time this thread was active, I believe there was a suggestion to use 1 XBT == 1 uBTC. This would bring us completely within the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Allen Piscitello
It certainly is not subjective, in that people are far more used to dealing with whole numbers than decimals. Try reading the first one, then reading the second one. Tell those numbers to someone else, have them write it down, and see how many people screw up the first vs. the second. This has

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Luke-Jr
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 4:37:02 PM slush wrote: Display based on locale. Please don't bring locale into this. Bitcoin has always been intentionally locale-independent (hence BTC using xxx,xxx,xxx.xx format even in locales which swap the commas and periods). Localising display makes

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Mike Hearn
Well it looks like the consensus is to do it, instead of talking about it. I'm going to make sure we get uBTC into the next Armory release. Hmm - be careful with the word consensus here. A bunch of people on a mailing list does not make consensus ;) If you survey other wallets, you'll find

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Alan Reiner
On 03/13/2014 01:51 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: Well it looks like the consensus is to do it, instead of talking about it. I'm going to make sure we get uBTC into the next Armory release. Hmm - be careful with the word consensus here. A bunch of people on a mailing list does not

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Jorge Timón
On 3/13/14, Troy Benjegerdes ho...@hozed.org wrote: cynic hat: on Every volatility bump messes up expectations of what a bitcoin is worth, so why are we bikeshedding uBTC vs mBTC? Just be done with it and do mBTC now, and plan uBTC for just after the next price spike to $10KUSD or whatever,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Mike Hearn
You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork, which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon. + We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoin to make the decision. Hmmm ;) Didn't you just make an assumption about the future price? This sounds

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Ben Davenport
Another vote in support of uBTC. I made my position clear in May of last year. Since then, Dogecoin has essentially PROVEN the psychological value of a low-valued large-balance currency. (From: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220322.msg2334059#msg2334059) The whole unit change seems so

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Drak
I agree with you Jeff. The unit switch needs to happen once and once only, but that is exactly why I said the defaults really need to change in Bitcoin-Qt since that is still the main reference implementation and it will influence others. Bitpay could also take the lead here and make the switch

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Jorge Timón
On 3/13/14, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork, which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon. + We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoin to make the decision. Hmmm ;) Didn't you just make an

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2014-03-13 Thread Un Ix
Second this comment. A change like this so soon after mt gox debacle would be one more sign of bitcoins 'instability' for skeptics and average folk who read only headlines. In general, it seems some people are looking to try and change the publics mental price of BTC which is more of a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-16 Thread Jacob Lyles
One of the strongest results from psychology is the power of defaults over people's behaviohttp://danariely.com/2008/05/05/3-main-lessons-of-psychology/r. Opt-in vs. opt-out national organ donation policies mean the difference between organ donation rates under ~10% to over ~90%. Most people

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-15 Thread Adam Back
While we're discussing the emotive (though actually of real relevance for bitcoin user comprehension and sentiment) I couldnt resisnt to add some trivia reference it is amusing that a currency rarely in history had to deflate (remove 0s) rather than inflate (add 0s). Viz this hyperinflated fifty

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-15 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 01:37:56AM -0800, Alex Kravets wrote: Hi guys, Alex, you're top-posting and not trimming your replies. I've seen many many non-geeks be utterly intimidated and confused by 0.000X quantities and/or mBTC uBTC notation Yes, people really can't tell any difference

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-15 Thread Drak
On 14 November 2013 23:01, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote: I wonder if it might make sense to bundle some other terminology fixups at the same time. A very good idea. Right now, Bitcoin-Qt has been using the term confirmations (plural) to refer to how many blocks deep a transaction is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-15 Thread Luke-Jr
On Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:41:56 AM Drak wrote: So a payment clears after one confirmation, but you might want to wait until the payment has been confirmed n times. Then at least you are not using the same word for two different meanings and you're using stuff more familiar in popular

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-15 Thread Mark Friedenbach
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/15/13 4:41 PM, Drak wrote: For years, people had a problem with email address, instead using email number but they got there eventually. Most people nowadays use email address So payment address or bitcoin address make better sense here

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-15 Thread Jean-Paul Kogelman
On Nov 15, 2013, at 05:10 PM, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote:On Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:41:56 AM Drak wrote:So "a payment clears after one confirmation, but you might want to waituntil the payment has been confirmed n times".Then at least you are not using the same word for two different

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-15 Thread Drak
On 16 November 2013 01:10, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote: On Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:41:56 AM Drak wrote: So a payment clears after one confirmation, but you might want to wait until the payment has been confirmed n times. Then at least you are not using the same word for two

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-15 Thread Mark Friedenbach
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/15/13 5:19 PM, Drak wrote: Maybe, but again from the user's perspective they pay someone, and they receive money - just like you do with paypal using an email address. The technical bits in the middle dont matter to the user and trying to

[Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Melvin Carvalho
Rationale === Given the recent rise in value there seems to be anecdotal evidence that 1 bitcoin being so high is putting off a lot of normal buyers, because they feel that putting down $400+ and only getting 1 coin, or having to buy in multiples of 1 whole coin, is too much.. only after it

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Luke-Jr
On Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:45:51 AM Melvin Carvalho wrote: Would now be a good time to start thinking about changing the default display in the software. Perhaps initially it could be a dropdown display option, then at some point mbtc becomes the default? There's already a dropdown

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Alan Reiner
I highly recommend that if we make any move towards this, that the software show verification in both/all units. For instance, there should be 3 input fields, one for BTC, one for mBTC one for uBTC. As the user enters a value in one of the fields, it would automatically update the other fields

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Mark Friedenbach
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 For this reason I'm in favor of skipping mBTC and moving straight to uBTC. Having eight, or even five decimal places is not intuitive to the average user. Two decimal places is becoming standard for new national currencies, and we wouldn't be too far

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Alan Reiner
Just keep in mind it will be a little awkward that 54.3 uBTC is the smallest unit that can be transferred [easily] and the standard fees are 500 uBTC.It's not a deal breaker, it's just something that needs to be taken into consideration when it comes to user perception (which is one of the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Jeff Garzik
Go straight to uBTC. Humans and existing computer systems handle numbers to the left of the decimals just fine (HK Dollars, Yen). The opposite is untrue (QuickBooks really does not like 3+ decimal places). - Jeff On Nov 14, 2013 4:40 PM, Mark Friedenbach m...@monetize.io wrote: -BEGIN

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Allen Piscitello
Obviously the answer is to just display all fees and trading rates as BTC or MBTC (.005 MBTC fee? how cheap!). On a more serious note, the transition should definitely be thought out well as it could be very damaging to have this confusion, but I would prefer to do it only once rather than

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Mark Friedenbach
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/14/13 2:00 PM, Alan Reiner wrote: Just keep in mind it will be a little awkward that 54.3 uBTC is the smallest unit that can be transferred [easily] and the standard fees are 500 uBTC.It's not a deal breaker, it's just something that

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Drak
On 14 November 2013 22:00, Alan Reiner etothe...@gmail.com wrote: Just keep in mind it will be a little awkward that 54.3 uBTC is the smallest unit that can be transferred [easily] and the standard fees are 500 uBTC.It's not a deal breaker, The fed was reduced to 0.0001/kb a while

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Drak
On 14 November 2013 22:32, Drak d...@zikula.org wrote: On 14 November 2013 22:00, Alan Reiner etothe...@gmail.com wrote: Just keep in mind it will be a little awkward that 54.3 uBTC is the smallest unit that can be transferred [easily] and the standard fees are 500 uBTC.It's not a deal

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Luke-Jr
On Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:07:58 PM Allen Piscitello wrote: Obviously the answer is to just display all fees and trading rates as BTC or MBTC (.005 MBTC fee? how cheap!). On a more serious note, the transition should definitely be thought out well as it could be very damaging to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Luke-Jr
On Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:53:16 PM Alan Reiner wrote: I really like the XBT idea. It makes a lot of sense to match the ISO currency symbol (though the ISO guys will have to adjust the way they've defined the XBT). And I do agree that going right to uBTC and skipping mBTC makes sense,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Mark Friedenbach
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/14/13 3:01 PM, Luke-Jr wrote: I think we all know the problems with the term address. People naturally compare it to postal addresses, email addresses, etc, which operate fundamentally different. I suggest that we switch to using invoice id

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Drak d...@zikula.org wrote: Unless something is recommended/done by the bitcoin core developers I doubt much will change at bitcoin user/consumer level. While the sentiment is appreciated, it seems important to gently push back a bit, and remind: This is a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Melvin Carvalho
On 15 November 2013 01:37, Daniel F nanot...@gmail.com wrote: This is a decentralized currency, and we should avoid centralizing decisions. This is something that impacts the community at large, and deserves input and discussion at every level. I would suggest posting on all possible

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

2013-11-14 Thread Alan Reiner
I disagree. There's a real perception and usability issue with the current interface combined with the current price. People are intimidated by the current system, even though the price really reflects Bitcoin starting to spread its wings (maybe prematurely, bubble-style, but the price will have