John, I can well understand all the incantations that
you are using and recognize them for platonic
rationalizations. Marx would be proud. So would
Hegel and Paul and every other romantic who obsessed
with pure essences.
Suffice it to say that I see God's universe as a
vastly more complex,
--- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
D. Brin, don't be absurd. _The American
Conservative_ is basically a platform for the
frankly racist, xenophobic conservatism of Patrick
Buchanan.
...who was a darling of the right before he defected.
Since you have obviously not read any of the
http://www.pipa.org/
Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, One of the reasons that Bush
supporters have these beliefs is that they perceive the Bush
administration confirming them. Interestingly, this is one point on which
Bush and Kerry supporters agree. Eighty-two percent of Bush
Oh, and now this. Talk about faith-based vs.
reality-based communities. Check out this recent
survey.
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/Press10_21_04.pdf
According to a recent poll, a majority of Bush
supporters SIMPLY DO NOT CARE whether or not they have
a clear idea what W
JDG said:
Strangely? Catholics basically founded the science of genetics a
long time ago to name but one example
I see that David has already responded to this, but I thought I would
repost my response to your last email claiming that Catholics invented
genetics in case you never read it
This New Yorker article by David Denby has bearing on some of the earlier
discussions on philosophy and the enlightenment.
(David)Hume, perhaps the most thoroughgoing skeptic in the history of
philosophy, believed that religion is a portrait not of how the cosmos
works but of how the human
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This New Yorker article by David Denby has bearing
on some of the earlier
discussions on philosophy and the enlightenment.
Very interesting, Doug.
I'm not without my own inconsistencies in these
matters. For example, while it's blatantly obvious
On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 11:02:41PM -0400, JDG wrote:
Acrtually, this is not true. Taking non-defense spending, and
excluding interest payments on the national debt, I have this
remaining portion of spending increasing as a percentage of GDP from
1993 to 1994 in Clinton's first budget. I
Last week I was 7-7 for a measely 46-42 overall record. The upset special
is now 4-2 after the Houston Texans beat the Tennessee Titans for the first
time in franchise history.
St. Louis at Miami - The Miami Dolphins narrowly last last week's Battle
of the Basement to Buffalo. Miami still
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:16:12 -0500, Robert G. Seeberger
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/04/10/wo_muller101504.asp?p=0
A prime piece of evidence linking human activity to climate change
turns out to be an artifact of poor mathematics.
A summary of problems
Hi people,
I am Ruben Krasnopolsky, a newcomer to the list.
Or rather, a returnee after a *very* long absence...
I'm sending my first message in the middle of a thread,
where I saw a position similar to mine a few weeks ago.
I respect it, and I *think* I understand where Gautam Mukunda
At 12:58 AM 10/23/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
This is what Bush supporters believe:
# 75% believe Iraq was providing substantial support
to al Qaeda.
Fair enough, they got this one wrong.
# 74% believe Bush favors including labor and
environmental standards in agreements on trade.
I don't
At 11:58 AM 10/22/2004 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
Clinton, on the other hand, stands out for increasing normalized revenues
Presuming, of course, that you consider increasing federal revenues to 21%
of GDP for the first time since World War II to be a good thing.
JDG
- Original Message -
From: Martin Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: Global Warming Bombshell
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:16:12 -0500, Robert G. Seeberger
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Richard Baker wrote:
Which is not to say that Mendel wasn't an excellent scientist;
But he wasn't. His published figures are too good to be real:
they don't pass a Chi-Square test, meaning that he adjusted
them to look better than what he found in his experiments :-)
Alberto Monteiro
I could not be more pleased with JDG's straw-clasping
sophistry in answer to the poll of Bush supporters,
had I been asked to write it as a satire of
rationalizing obstinacy. Great work, John! The one
thing my fans have in common is lots of neurons!
# 57% believe that the majority of people
At 23-10-04 19:45, Miron Murcury wrote:
I have long feared that the threat from space isn't an armada of economic
conquerors, but from aliens who hold deep rooted religious passion and need
to share it with everyone. Or kill them.
Comments?
Considering that Christians have done exactly that
At 22-10-04 13:30, JDG wrote:
There is big-time biological change that occurs at the moment of
conception. A zygote is clearly human. A sperm or ovum is clearly not.
At the moment of conception, one cell (the sperm) merges with an other cell
(the ovum). That's all the change that occurs at
At 23-10-04 19:45, JDG wrote:
Well, Bush's first act in office was to stop the practice of spending my
federal tax dollars for abortions overseas. He also has consistently
appointed judges who do not find a right to an abortion in the penumbra of
the Constitution.
That hardly comes as a
At 23-10-04 21:58, JDG wrote:
# 57% believe that the majority of people in the world
would prefer to see Bush reelected.
Who cares?
We all should care.
Considering that Bush is one of the most incompetent US Presidents ever...
Considering that Bush has repeatedly lied to the US public and to the
In a message dated 10/23/2004 10:42:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Richard Baker wrote:
Which is not to say that Mendel wasn't an excellent scientist;
But he wasn't. His published figures are too good to be real:
they don't pass a Chi-Square test, meaning that
I got a joke about the electronic voting machine in Florida, it's about 900k.
How can I make it public to the list?
Alberto Monteiro
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Alberto Monteiro wrote:
I got a joke about the electronic voting machine in Florida, it's about 900k.
How can I make it public to the list?
Alberto Monteiro
Put it on a web page and post the URL, would be my suggestion.
Why such a big joke? Is it an image, such as a cartoon?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5045652-113623,00.html
Key quote (from the end):
On November 2, the entire civilised world will be
praying, praying Bush loses. And Sod's law dictates
he'll probably win, thereby disproving the existence
of God once and for all. The world will endure four
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
But going after the President of the United States -
that the Guardian will publish columns actually
praising. There truly is no better reason for voting
for George Bush than that it would apall people like
this.
Uhright!
Pissing people off is the absolute best
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Uhright!
Pissing people off is the absolute best reason to
vote for Bush.
G
xponent
How It Sounds From This End Maru
rob
Depends on the people, rob, depends on the people. I
note with a total lack of surprise that how it sounds
from
The attitude of the Grauniad paragraph cited is indeed indecent.
It wishes or calls for assassination of the US president,
and it has some very weird and spooky undertones of superstition.
Even if it is only half meant in joke it's indecent;
sadly enough, more probably it's serious.
Gautam's
On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 04:34:42PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5045652-113623,00.html
Key quote (from the end): John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John
Hinckley Jr - where are you now that we need you?
Pathetic, really. Favoring the assassination
Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
But going after the President of the United States -
that the Guardian will publish columns actually
praising. There truly is no better reason for voting
for George Bush than that it would apall people like
this.
Uhright!
Here is what Governor Bush said in 2000
(http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17511):
We will strengthen Social Security and Medicare for the greatest
generation and for generations to come.
I work with Republicans and Democrats to get things done.
When America uses force in the world, the cause
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pathetic, really. Favoring the assassination of a
democratically elected
official is sad, but what makes it really pathetic
is that they aren't
prepared to do anything to back up their convictions
except whine about
it in a rag.
My amusement at the
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Well, no, of course not. But in the more general
sense - i.e. that quite a few people who seem to wish
ill to the United States are strongly opposed to the
re-election of George Bush and would be harmed if he
were re-elected, that _should_ guide my vote.
The enemy of my
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Uhright!
Pissing people off is the absolute best reason to
vote for Bush.
G
xponent
How It Sounds From This End Maru
rob
Depends on the people, rob, depends on the people. I
note with a total lack of surprise
- Original Message -
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Who does GWB think he is?
Dan Minette wrote:
Anyway, you're starting with a premise that I reject -- that we must
stop
At 10:52 AM 10/23/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
Go to the web site cited above. You'll see a long list
of OTHER DEFECTORS.
Uhhh Dr. Brin perhaps you should actually ask William F. Buckely,
Stephen Moore, Tucker Carlson, and Henry Hyde whom they are voting for in
this upcoming election before
At 06:07 PM 10/23/2004 -0700 d.brin wrote:
Here is what Governor Bush said in 2000
(http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17511):
We will strengthen Social Security and Medicare for the greatest
generation and for generations to come.
I work with Republicans and Democrats to get things done.
When
At 10:52 AM 10/23/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
# 57% believe that the majority of people in the
world would prefer to see Bush reelected.
Who cares?
Yes, it is clear that your brand of neocons sincerely
feels this way.
Actually, I said who cares if a majority of Bush supporters know what
On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 06:17:26PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
My amusement at the fact that Erik and _Jonah Goldberg_ of National
Review had exactly the same response to this article - I think you
guys actually used the same words - is immense.
I had to use Google on Jonah to find out who
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The enemy of my enemy surely is my friend?
Nick
No. That seems to me the belief of some of the
European left which - asked to choose between Islamic
terroism and the US - seems to kind of prefer the
terrorists. How you got that from my statement I
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I had to use Google on Jonah to find out who he was,
but all I saw
was a rather unremarkable conservative columnist (I
do feel sorry for
his wife, no, not that way, I mean because she
writes speeches for
Ashcroft). I couldn't find the text you talked
--- JDG
This just in, Dr. Brin, America was attacked on
September 11th. Perhaps
you heard about it?
In what possible sense would it have been wise for
the United States to
tackle a wholesale overhaul of Social Security and
Medicare while fighting
the War in Afghanistan or founding
You know, nothing makes me want to vote Democrat more than the idea Gautam
just expressed about the left, or the Republican campaign commercials
talking about Kerry and his Liberal friends. Makes me want to replace
liberal with Communist and I think I can really see where this is
going. So
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Nope, I didn't comment on that. I was commenting on
what you seemed
to be saying, pointing out that it didn't sound
exactly like what I
thought you would want to convey.
As for the article, no outrage really, that kind of
blatant silliness
is
- Original Message -
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: From the Guardian
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The enemy of my enemy surely is my friend?
Nick
No. That
--- Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You know, nothing makes me want to vote Democrat
more than the idea Gautam
just expressed about the left, or the Republican
campaign commercials
talking about Kerry and his Liberal friends. Makes
me want to replace
liberal with Communist and I
At 09:57 AM 10/23/2004 -0400 JDG wrote:
At 11:58 AM 10/22/2004 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
Clinton, on the other hand, stands out for increasing normalized revenues
Presuming, of course, that you consider increasing federal revenues to 21%
of GDP for the first time since World War II to be a good
At 07:25 PM 10/23/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
Utterly bizarre. Giving the rich a trillion dollars
of our childrens' money,
Uh, no, Dr. Brin. Actually, it was their money.
And actually, it wasn't just the rich.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2108201/
I know that you disagree with the
At 02:16 PM 10/22/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
--- Dan M offered interesting statistics. But the
core thing is this. Clinton asked THIS generation to
pay for our own expenses. W is demanding that our
children pay for a trillion dollar gift to his
friends...
Actually, John Kerry has been
Gautam wrote:
It probably closely
approximates the view of the median BBC employee, for
example) of those in the left, particularly the
European left, who genuinely do wish the US ill, and
the fact that they oppose the President _does_ make me
more likely to vote for him.
No matter what the
that the Boston fans are chanting Who's your Papi?
when David Ortiz is batting?
:-)
=
Gautam Mukunda
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Freedom is not free
http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com
___
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Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
At 11:55 AM 10/11/2004 -0400 Bryon Daly wrote:
I agree that there's a lot of good though behind it, but I think that
times have changed and the system doesn't serve us that well any
longer, as it stands. But really my main argument was the need to fix
the winner takes the state system rather than
At 01:55 PM 10/20/2004 -0500 Gary Denton wrote:
If you believe in democracy shouldn't you favor abolishing the
Electoral College?
But I don't believe in democracy. I believe in republicanism.
JDG
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The general feel I have is that they believe that
the establishment of the
Rule of Law in Europe is a shining example of how
things Should Be
Donethey see Bush as the main opponent of the
rule of law. They see
him as someone who wants the US to
Go away John.
I want to understand this properly, because it is open to
misinterpretation. Is it that you would wish
1) JDG to break off conversations with you for a while
2) JDG to leave Brin-L for having bothered you.
If it is the former, then different words may have been helpful.
If
- Original Message -
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: From the Guardian
I didn't say I'm voting for Bush because of it, but
the fact that these people oppose Bush is a point in
- Original Message -
From: David Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Brin: US Budget
Did you consider the tribute that Saudi Arabia
and Kuwait
were paying after the 1st Gulf War?
The incredible
At 11:21 PM 10/21/2004 -0500 Julia Thompson wrote:
I'm interested if you are defending the White House calling a minister a
liar?
The White House has already said as much.
I'm confused -- that doesn't look to me as though the question has been
answered.
So the White House has called the
At 09:54 PM 10/21/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote:
Doug, I am interested to know that you now consider Pat Robertson to be a
reliable source.
Maybe you are going to start listening to what Pat Robertson has to say
about salvation as well?
If Alex Rodriguez tells a reporter that he thinks
At 08:12 PM 10/22/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
Moreover, it is a little disingenious
to call it the
designated leadership of their side.
Proof positive that you simply skim instead of reading
carefully, since that phrase referred to George W
Bush.
Actually, it is proof positive that I'm a bad
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Well, rob, given just how unhappy I am with President
Bush, pissing off the European left might actually
_be_ the best reason to vote for him.
Considering the wide divide in the way such dissatisfaction is
expressed between you and various stripes of leftist, I can
for voting for John Kerry is, I think, the Washington
Post's endorsement of him. See:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57584-2004Oct23.html
Which is excellent.
OTOH, the best argument for voting for George Bush for
President was just made by John Leo in US News and
World Report.
California Unveils State's First Hydrogen Refueling Station
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has unveiled his state's first
hydrogen refueling station in Los Angeles. The official says it marks the
start of a transition as cars convert from gasoline to hydrogen fuel cells.
There are
At 09:23 PM 10/23/2004 -0700 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
for voting for John Kerry is, I think, the Washington
Post's endorsement of him. See:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57584-2004Oct23.html
Which is excellent.
OTOH, the best argument for voting for George Bush for
President was
I have a couple of questions raised by the 18 reservests that refused an
order.
1) Is there any way that an order can be foolhardy enough to not qualify as
a legal order? If so, are there criteria? For example, if someone know's
the captains orders will endanger the ship, like hard left at full
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
that the Boston fans are chanting Who's your Papi?
when David Ortiz is batting?
:-)
:)
I was out running errands during a good chunk of the evening and
listened to the game on my car radio. It was surreal, waiting for that
last out as I was driving home in patchy
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a couple of questions raised by the 18
reservests that refused an
order.
Damon can answer your specific questions far better
than I can. I can tell you, though, that in the past
72 hours I've spoken to four senior officers and one
junior
A legal order may be completely stupid and
counterproductive.full left at full speed.
The order to the Light Brigade was legal.
You cannot, however, legally order someone
to commit an atrocity like those at the prison.
That is why that the prison investigation won't
end with conviction of
- Original Message -
From: Ray Moses [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Killer Bs Discussion
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:55 PM
Subject: RE: What's a legal order?
A legal order may be completely stupid and
counterproductive.full
Dan Minette wrote:
If so, lets say a subordinant knows that an order will
endanger a number of troops without achieving a real tactical
or strategic goal, is that order still a legal order?
An order is an order, and it is not for the subordinate to second-guess
his orders. You cannot run
Dan said:
If it is the former, then different words may have
been helpful.
I apologize. sincerely. (I have not yet read the
next two messages. I had already decided to do this.)
If John is good at pressing my buttons, it's not so
much his fault as mine. I am sure he does not see his
I think it would be better to define what exactly an ILLEGAL order is...and
I think the previous poster clarified it. My opinion: given my military
background, I think some discipline is in order. But I also think the
person(s) issuing the orders to the unit should be looked into as well. It
--- Dan
your attempt to paraphrase and clarify is appreciated
as sincere, but it breaks down with the following:
3) He obtains agreement to oust Hussein's army from
Kuwait, but to only do
that. He agrees to not invade Iraq. He thinks he
can inflict enough damage on Hussein's forces and
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