RE: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-25 Thread Curtis Burisch
If you think black helicopters are a-comin-a-gitcha, you ain't seen nothin' yet: Think black flying saucers. Which make a lot more sense for alien invaders to use than ones which glow bright green . . . Black is way more cool. Ever seen a pink ufo?? Hah! Thought not!

Re: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-21 Thread Dave Land
On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:53 PM, Dan M wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:brin-l- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronn! Blankenship Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:48 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: RE: Wal-Mart and more L4 Oh

Re: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-21 Thread Lance A. Brown
Dan M said the following on 2/21/2008 12:44 AM: Nationwide, Wal-Mart pays just under average for retail workers. Here near Houston, it pays a bit better than average. So, exploiting the worker by paying far less than the next guy for a worker does not seem to be the MO. Indeed, as the

Re: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-21 Thread Ronn! Blankenship
) Discussion Subject: RE: Wal-Mart and more L4 Oh. For a second I thought I was going to read about the first Supercenter on a space colony . . . No, the robotic union has successfully blocked it. The Robot-union dodge is completely bogus. All off-planet robotic sites have been right

Re: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-21 Thread Nick Arnett
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (As an aside, it was English Gentlemen who ate the Irish Children...a bit pedeanticbut rather important to the author's point.) (As a further aside, think of we as the human race rather than we, the Irish, who would be the

RE: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-21 Thread Dan M
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:19 AM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Wal-Mart and more L4 I'm interpreting everything your wrote about ethics as agreement

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-21 Thread Warren Ockrassa
On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Dan M wrote: Okay ... so where's the middle class gone to, then? It's still there, but whether the middle class has noticeably improved its standing over the last 30 years is a argument based on subtle interpretations of the inflation index. The subtle nature

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Ronn! Blankenship
At 01:23 AM Wednesday 2/20/2008, Dave Land wrote: the moderators, historian Sean Worst President In History? Wilentz Never heard of him. What was he president of, to got the title? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Nick Arnett
On Feb 19, 2008 11:23 PM, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As much as I want to brag about the fact that I got to attend such a prestigious event, my main point is that Dan's complaint about the poor quality of discourse on this list and Doug's frustration with Dan's extraordinarily

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Dan M
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Land Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:23 AM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Wal-Mart and more Despite the fact that there were some people in the room who could have

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Dave Land
On Feb 20, 2008, at 6:47 AM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 01:23 AM Wednesday 2/20/2008, Dave Land wrote: the moderators, historian Sean Worst President In History? Wilentz Never heard of him. What was he president of, to got the title? Sorry: To the extent that he is known, Wilentz is best

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Dave Land
Dan, On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Dan M wrote: Behalf Of Dave Land Perhaps we can give each other the same gift? You posted to state that a significant fraction of my posts are rude because they are long. I don't recall having said any such thing. Someone else commented that your posts

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Nick Arnett
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll let Nick decide what Nick deems appropriate. The construct you and Nick seems to presume that we think with one mind, which we definitely do not. I think that Nick finds me a pompous ass from time to time, and I return

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Jim Sharkey
Dan M wrote: However, since I try to be polite, I will refrain from that until I can devote a day or two per post honing my responses down to strict, yet unspecified, page limitations or I am told that I am allowed to write long posts. Passive-aggressiveness aside, I personally wouldn't want

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Deborah Harrell
Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I could have been clearer. I will beg indulgence due to a brain that was in a fog last night due to too much travel and too little sleep while way too ill. Dave Travel advice: Don't get an upper-respiratory illness at 8,000 feet: it's no fun at

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Ronn! Blankenship
At 12:14 PM Wednesday 2/20/2008, Dave Land wrote: On Feb 20, 2008, at 6:47 AM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 01:23 AM Wednesday 2/20/2008, Dave Land wrote: the moderators, historian Sean Worst President In History? Wilentz Never heard of him. What was he president of, to got the title?

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Warren Ockrassa
On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Dan M wrote: You posted to state that a significant fraction of my posts are rude because they are long. And you wonder why few people seem to want to engage you in intelligent, polite discourse? Seriously, Dan -- arguing in good faith, avoiding strawmanning

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-20 Thread Dan M
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Warren Ockrassa Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:23 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Wal-Mart and more On Feb 18, 2008, at 6:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote

RE: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-20 Thread Dan M
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:30 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Wal-Mart and more On Feb 17, 2008 8:50 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3

RE: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-20 Thread Ronn! Blankenship
Oh. For a second I thought I was going to read about the first Supercenter on a space colony . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

RE: Wal-Mart and more L4

2008-02-20 Thread Dan M
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronn! Blankenship Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:48 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: RE: Wal-Mart and more L4 Oh. For a second I thought I was going to read about

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-19 Thread Warren Ockrassa
On Feb 18, 2008, at 6:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, historically, the extra money the first half has is spent on things that employ the second half. That is _the_ process that created an American middle class out of dirt poor farmers who could barely feed their families. Okay

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-19 Thread Dave Land
On Feb 17, 2008, at 11:00 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: Dan wrote: 1) Are you interested in a discussion on the vision of myself and at least one other person who was an active poster that discussions are often thwarted by pronouncements that come as if they come from Olympus, rather than

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Ronn! Blankenship
At 07:32 PM Sunday 2/17/2008, William T Goodall wrote: 1/5 Americans think the Sun revolves around the Earth Maru The other 80% are convinced that the world revolves around them . . . Egocentric Universe Maru -- Ronn! :) ___

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Curtis Burisch
Dan M: wrote: 3) Are you interested in discussing what I just quoted and will requote: The third is a discussion of the case at hand: if we (as I think we do) agree that improving the lives of the poorer among us at least _a_ worthwhile goal, has Wal-Mart done more to aid or more to harm those

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Dan M
I'm certainly interested in a good discussion, but I find it very difficult to debate with you because you are a very prolific writer with no apparent limit on the time you have to research a topic. Believe it or not, I'm driving to Austin to be with my wife nearly every weekend and

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Dan M
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hobby Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 11:43 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Wal-Mart and more Dan M wrote: ... Would you consider this an reasonable, non right

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Dan M
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Curtis Burisch Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:33 AM To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' Subject: RE: Wal-Mart and more Dan M: wrote: 3) Are you interested in discussing what I just

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Curtis Burisch
Dan, I live in Africa. I lived in Zimbabwe for more than half my life. There's no denying that Malaria is a big problem. But DDT is definitely NOT the answer. Other preventative measures are cheaper, and far less damaging. Wikipedia again: The relative effectiveness of IRS (with DDT or

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Andrew Crystall
On 18 Feb 2008 at 21:10, Curtis Burisch wrote: Dan, I live in Africa. I lived in Zimbabwe for more than half my life. There's no denying that Malaria is a big problem. But DDT is definitely NOT the answer. It's effective and safe when used properly. But the key there is used properly.

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Nick Arnett
On Feb 17, 2008 8:50 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, those folks I showed/read this to saw the implied question fairly straightforwardly. I didn't want to be at all rude, so I made it implicit. Explicitly, if I start a conversation over the first two issues, will you be willing

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Nick Arnett
On Feb 17, 2008 8:50 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3) Are you interested in discussing what I just quoted and will requote: The third is a discussion of the case at hand: if we (as I think we do) agree that improving the lives of the poorer among us at least _a_ worthwhile goal, has

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread David Hobby
Dan M wrote: Dan-- I read Krugman regularly, and usually agree with him. The quote of his is at: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2005/12/paul_krugman_wa.htm Dan-- Looks familiar. I bet I read it when it first came out. The gist is that Wal-Mart does not create retail

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread Nick Arnett
On Feb 18, 2008 4:58 PM, David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Sure it does claims that evil has explanatory power? I remember an argument with Gautam along these lines a while back. His line was something like Terrorists are evil because they do horrible things. Terrorists do horrible

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Original Message: - From: David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:58:13 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Wal-Mart and more Dan M wrote: Dan-- I read Krugman regularly, and usually agree with him. The quote of his is at: http

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread David Hobby
Nick Arnett wrote: On Feb 18, 2008 4:58 PM, David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Sure it does claims that evil has explanatory power? ... I'm curious why you guys are talking about evil. I don't think anybody in this discussion has called Wal-Mart evil. I guess I'm posting this because

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-18 Thread David Hobby
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Historically, new jobs have always been created for the guys that lose their job. There is dislocation, but in the end just about everyone benefits. I'm not sure I buy that. I see a grave shortage of jobs in the US. This goes way beyond the official unemployment

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread Dan M
I am responding with the exact same message to two posts because I am contemplating whether there is any point in replying to either. I think I know what the answer is, but since I _know_ I am often wrong, I will ask. I see several very linked, yet very different issues raised in the short

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread Dan M
I am responding with the exact same message to two posts because I am contemplating whether there is any point in replying to either. I think I know what the answer is, but since I _know_ I am often wrong, I will ask. I see several very linked, yet very different issues raised in the short

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread David Hobby
Dan M wrote: ... With respect to the first question..as folks may, or may not, have noticed, after posting here over a thousand times, my posts have dropped to near zero. I think it is fair to say that I am strongly opinionated. I enjoy passionate arguments about what's true, what's best,

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread Nick Arnett
On Feb 17, 2008 2:52 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am responding with the exact same message to two posts because I am contemplating whether there is any point in replying to either. I think I know what the answer is, but since I _know_ I am often wrong, I will ask. There are a total

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread William T Goodall
On 17 Feb 2008, at 23:35, David Hobby wrote: ... think that I'm not the only one who's had them. But, I realize that I'm not posting much now because I'd rather fade away to just the occasional post of interest than spend time going in the same old circles. I'd guess that the

RE: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread Dan M
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 5:45 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Wal-Mart and more On Feb 17, 2008 2:52 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread David Hobby
Dan M wrote: ... Would you consider this an reasonable, non right wing source? Or, how about Paul Krugmanhe has made a statement that frames the question in a way that I think could lead to a very fruitful discussion. I'm not saying that he and I agree on everything, but a good thread

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: 1) Are you interested in a discussion on the vision of myself and at least one other person who was an active poster that discussions are often thwarted by pronouncements that come as if they come from Olympus, rather than arguments that folks want others to discuss so the author

Re: Wal-Mart and more

2008-02-17 Thread Charlie Bell
On 18/02/2008, at 5:00 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: What I ended up doing on more than one occasion was to take just one portion of your argument and zero in on it. But this would usually be met with a reply that was, once again, overwhelming. ...and diversionary. It's a debating