Your two previous links did not give an example of how Bush
deregulated anything that may have lead to the subprime mortgage
crisis. The youtube video you listed does not give any examples of
deregulation either. I don't think that word means what you think it
means.
OK, *there's* the proof
any theories why this person has such a mean streak.
either he was bullied as a child, or he was the bully!~)
it's not like he isn't aware and just lacking in social
skills. he probably never leaves his house and spends
all his time picking arguments on line.
he won't reveal any info mation
Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
If someone _physically_ attacks one of my kids or my wife (all
hypothetical atm), they may find themselves suddenly with one or
several surplus body openings in whatever caliber I can lay my hands
on at the time . . .
So, your kid (or wife) is playing with a
In case you missed it, hear is an article from last month.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122298982558700341.html
How Government Stoked the Mania
Housing prices would never have risen so high without multiple
Washington mistakes.
by Russell Roberts
It seems perhaps that credit default swaps aren't the boogeyman that
they've been painted by some.
The Meltdown That Wasn't
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122670411909729683.html
Excerpt:
Credit default swaps are contracts that insure against a borrower
defaulting on its bonds. The buyer of
Politicians were clueless as usual. Here are some quotes about Fannie
and Freddie by clueless politicians and regulators. See the article
for more.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122290574391296381.html
House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 10, 2003:
Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.):
http://www.rgemonitor.com/financemarkets-monitor/254399/systemic_risk_contagion_and_trade_finance_-_back_to_the_bad_old_days
http://tinyurl.com/5dge9z
The collapse of letters of credit for financing exports as a result of the
current financial crisis will have negative impacts on everyone
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, John Williams wrote:
In case you missed it, hear is an article from last month.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122298982558700341.html
How Government Stoked the Mania
Housing prices would never have risen so high without multiple
Washington mistakes.
by Russell
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:39 AM, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It seems perhaps that credit default swaps aren't the boogeyman that
they've been painted by some.
The Meltdown That Wasn't
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122670411909729683.html
Anyway, I'd like to hear what
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:39 AM, John Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
In case you missed it, hear is an article from last month.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122298982558700341.html
How Government Stoked the Mania
Housing prices would never have risen so high without multiple
- Original Message -
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: How Government Stoked the Mania
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:39 AM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
In
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This does not make your case for the idea that *regulation* is to blame. In
fact, the whole story there is about the government loosening regulations
and lowering taxes, not tightening regulations or tax-and-spend politics.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM, xponentrob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The other problem, one that is often overlooked over here, is that this
situation is basically occurring worldwide.
As should be quite clear by now, all global markets are linked. Supply
and demand knows no national
On 11/16/2008 2:13:10 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM, xponentrob [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The other problem, one that is often overlooked over here, is that this
situation is basically occurring worldwide.
As should be quite clear by now,
Let's look at the bigger picture. You won't get any argument from me that
housing is subsidized in the United States via the tax code and Fannie
Mae/Freddie Mac. So I'll just go ahead and acknowledge the general truth
about your contention that the government interferes in the free market for
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Rceeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here are some interesting graphs:
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/long_post_on_fannie_and_freddie_with_graphs.php
Nice link, with lots of interesting data. Here is the conclusion:
And now let me try and fit a theory to
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Let's look at the bigger picture. You won't get any argument from me that
Those who champion personal responsibility and government accountability
seem strangely eager to excuse corporate misbehavior by pointing the finger
The politicians are the biggest swindlers here by far.
I don't get how that's supposed to have worked. Even if the political
powers that be deliberately encouraged bad financial behaviour shouldn't
the miraculous market forces have still avoided stupid risks?
Surely for the evil government to
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:58 PM, John Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Nor should it remove responsibility from the government for
contributing to and helping to coordinate all the craziness.
Another straw man again. Nobody here has argued to remove responsibility
from government.
The
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Euan Ritchie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The politicians are the biggest swindlers here by far.
I don't get how that's supposed to have worked.
Me neither. The politicians have swindled us for over $1 trillion in
the past few months, and they are getting away with
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By what metric(s)?
Over a trillion dollars stolen in the last few months, for one.
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
On 11/16/2008 3:42:06 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
By what metric(s)?
Over a trillion dollars stolen in the last few months, for one.
I think you need to clarify which trillion dollars you are referring
Politicians were clueless as usual.
Here are some quotes about Fannie
and Freddie by clueless politicians
and regulators.
FF had very little impact as far as causing the economic crisis, compared to
other factors.
___
Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible for the
financial crisis and he said All of us. We've been spending more than we make
for a long time ... Basically, he's right. The flip side of offering easy
credit and bad loans is that someone has to be there to accept
How Government Stoked the Mania Housing
prices would never have risen so high without
multiple Washington mistakes.
by Russell Roberts
just another three card monte guy with a libertarian agenda trying to blame the
collapse on fannie and freddie. this may have started with the reagan
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote:
Politicians were clueless as usual.
Here are some quotes about Fannie
and Freddie by clueless politicians
and regulators.
FF had very little impact as far as causing the economic crisis,
compared to other factors.
What are the other factors?
no one seems to know how he
found out about this list,,,
I have a very strong suspicion that he
(John) has read and enjoyed at least
one David Brin novel, and that he found
the list using google or another search
engine, and that he will be more than
willing to confirm this
FF had very little impact as far as causing the
economic crisis, compared to other factors.
What are the other factors? It looked to me from that
article that Rob linked to that there was a fair amount of
cause wrapped up in F F.
Julia
i am not denying that there were
Exactly how does what work? Government
regulation? Not very well.
really, how so? cite examples please and explain how well de-regulation
works...
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
it didn't matter that much what government policies were,
eventually we were going to come to this bubble burst one
way or the other.
Why this death spiral was not being discussed years ago is
beyond me. Perhaps it is similar to an economic singularity.
No one could see what was on the
in a community, there is behaviour that is simply
unacceptable. Ad hominem, falsehoods and abuse
(particularly unprovoked) are among those. It is
hard to accept trolling. It is best to start by
explaining where the offender is outside the range
of acceptable behaviour or agreed code of
the bush administration is largely responsible
for the current economic meltdown.
Things that happened under the Bush administration
may have served the function of the straw that broke
the camel's back...
No Shortage Of Blame To Go Around Maru
. . . ronn! :)
more like hay bales that
i highly doubt he has anything to back up his massive
certainty that
he is always right and everyone else is wrong.
WADR such certainty is hardly exclusive to him (or even to
members of this or similar lists ;)) . . .
Those Who Think They Know Everything Are Annoying To Those
Of Us Who Do
being called a loser on an internet list...
not really have any emotional reaction...
Dan M.
i do, but then i consider the source...
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
in a community, there is behaviour that is simply
unacceptable. Ad hominem, falsehoods and abuse
(particularly unprovoked) are among those.
While I'm not fond of any of these behaviors and believe they should be
discouraged, I can't see that anyone engaging in these behavior by e-mail chat
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Olin Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible for the
financial crisis and he said All of us. We've been spending more than we
make for a long time ...
He's obviously wrong. I haven't been
any theories why this person has such a mean streak.
I don't think that's my business. He is what he is.
I find greater peace when I manage to accept people as they
are, rather than as I think they should be.
Nick
as i said, you're a better man than i am. i can accept honest
He's obviously wrong. I haven't been spending more than I make. I know
a few other people, too.
Well, you know more frugal people than I do. I think if you look at the sizse
of credit card debt in the United States you will see that quite a few of us
have been living beyond our means. I
I find mysel beginning to ignore messages not only from
trolls but from those who constantly vent their anger
at the trolls.
If your'e concerned about community, consider the effect
of everyone else on the list of having our inboxes flooded
with these arguments.
good point; you have
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Olin Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, you know more frugal people than I do. I think if you look at the
size of credit card debt in the United States you will see that quite a few
of us have been living beyond our means. I commend you, though, for
your
Although I would like to see the government set a good example ...
That would be nice. I don't think it's the respnosibility of the government to
fix it either -- my whole point was that the responsbility starts with us.
Maybe we should set a good example for the government.
I'm a little
I think David Brin would have called these memes instead of
metaphors. Maybe Brin follows meme #2 (uplift those rambunctious
chimpanzees !) ?
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/11/metaphors_for_f.html
Metaphors for Financial Reform
by Arnold Kling
1. Machismo
Those who are driven by this
On Nov 16, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Olin Elliott wrote:
I'm a little surprised, since this is a David Brin discussion group,
that no one has suggested that the best possible fix for government
waste and courruption is greater transparency and accountability.
Speaking of the illustrious patron,
Jon Louis Mann wrote:
I find mysel beginning to ignore messages not only from
trolls but from those who constantly vent their anger
at the trolls.
If your'e concerned about community, consider the effect
of everyone else on the list of having our inboxes flooded
with these arguments.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Ray Ludenia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The idea of a shadow scientific Congress sounds like an idea with
merit. (Unfortunately perhaps), I suppose this idea could be extended
to economists, lawyers, artists etc.
Posting on topic? You just asking to be
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 6:52 PM, David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's too bad, and sounds like an extreme
response. May I suggest simply killfiling
the source of your irritation as an intermediate
option?
I'd agree, or just consider asking yourself this question before hitting
The politicians have swindled us for over $1 trillion in
the past few months, and they are getting away with it easily.
I saw a reference claiming it's more like $4 Trillion (that the U.S
government has made all sorts of commitments on the Q.T that are piling up).
Not that this brazen theft of
Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible for the
financial crisis
and he said All of us. We've been spending more than we make for a
long time ...
Basically, he's right.
Not if 'us' encompasses the many hard working debt avoiding people who
will also suffer by
On 17/11/2008, at 9:50 AM, Olin Elliott wrote:
Ted Turner was asked recently on a CNN interview who was responsible
for the financial crisis and he said All of us. We've been
spending more than we make for a long time ... Basically, he's
right. The flip side of offering easy credit
On 17/11/2008, at 12:23 PM, Olin Elliott wrote:
I'm a little surprised, since this is a David Brin discussion group,
that no one has suggested that the best possible fix for government
waste and courruption is greater transparency and accountability.
I did:
On 15/11/2008, at 6:02 PM,
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