Scouted: your multivitamin may KILL you!
Herbs or Natural Products That May Cause Cancer and Harm Part Four of a Four-Part Series Muriel J. Montbriand, PhD, RN - ons.org Data Sources: Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database and Lawrence Review of Natural Products-Monograph System. Information about these This review alerts consumers and healthcare professionals about herbs and natural products that have the potential to cause cancer and harm. Some herbs and natural products can be extremely poisonous or cause severe adverse reactions, which has been well documented by many authors (Bisset, 1994; Blumenthal et al., 1998; Brigden, 1995; Duke, 1987; Duke Vasquez, 1994; Facts and Comparisons, 2001; Foster Duke, 1990; Foster Tyler, 1999; Leung Foster, 1996). Preliminary research reviewed for this article indicates that 27 herbs and natural products have the potential to potentiate cancer and/or cause additional harm. Anecdotal and lay advertisement may stimulate interest in these products, attracting individuals who wish to protect themselves against cancer. These individuals may never have experienced cancer; however, all consumers should take note of these products, weigh the possible risks or benefits, and limit or avoid their use. The evidence-based information in this article will assist healthcare professionals to be better resources for consumers and patients. This is the fourth article in a four-part series dedicated to providing information about herbs and natural products for healthcare professionals in clinical oncology. The herbs and natural products discussed are those that may cause cancer and harm. The target group for this article is individuals who do not have cancer but are concerned about its development; however, all consumers may benefit from this information, taking note of these products and avoiding them when possible. full text: http://www.ons.org/publications/journals/ONF/Volume32/Issue1/320132.asp http://www.ons.org/publications/journals/ONF/Volume32/Issue1/320132.asp ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Radon is good for you!
After doing some research on Radiation Hormesis theory I went and found these 4 maps. I belive there is a direct correlation between background radiation and radioactive substances in our water, and higher incidences of cancer. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/gis/atmapcan.pdf Death rates by all cancers by state. This based upon incidences per 100,000 and not population density. The lighter areas are the median. Compare to this map: http://geology.about.com/library/bl/maps/usradonpotmap.gif Natural radon levels by state. Here is another map of Background radiation levels in the us http://geology.about.com/library/bl/maps/blusradiationmap.htm Here is a map of the NCI Cancer Centers. http://www3.cancer.gov/cancercenters/descriptionmap.html See for yourself. There appears to be a direct relationship between radiation exposure and cancer. Those who get *more* exposure are *more* protected, and Cancer centers congregate around low radon regions AND not population dense regions. Chad Cooper Comments? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Radon is good for you!
-Original Message- From: Dan Minette [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:05 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Radon is good for you! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:57 PM Subject: Radon is good for you! After doing some research on Radiation Hormesis theory I went and found these 4 maps. I belive there is a direct correlation between background radiation and radioactive substances in our water, and higher incidences of cancer. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/gis/atmapcan.pdf Death rates by all cancers by state. This based upon incidences per 100,000 and not population density. The lighter areas are the median. Compare to this map: http://geology.about.com/library/bl/maps/usradonpotmap.gif Natural radon levels by state. Here is another map of Background radiation levels in the us http://geology.about.com/library/bl/maps/blusradiationmap.htm Here is a map of the NCI Cancer Centers. http://www3.cancer.gov/cancercenters/descriptionmap.html See for yourself. There appears to be a direct relationship between radiation exposure and cancer. Those who get *more* exposure are *more* protected, and Cancer centers congregate around low radon regions AND not population dense regions. Chad Cooper Comments? There have been studies that show that tumors in mice increase when they are shielded from radiation. AFAIK, the data are suggestive of a beneficial effect of low radiation doses, but are not strong enough to support a claim of such an effect. In other words, the effect may be real, or it may disappear as additional data are taken. Dan M. Indeed, the data suggest that it is a log curve where low levels of radiation are beneficial, it gradually rises to a point where damage occurs. This is much different the current regulatory rules that suggest that radiation exposure has a linear detremental effect (Linear No Threshold model). I am still researching this idea of Radiation Hormesis. Get back to the group if I find more information. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: SpamAdaption
-Original Message- From: Nick Arnett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 6:54 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: SpamAdaption Trent Shipley wrote: Nick, is this what you are saying? Spammer compromises customer's computer (actually many customers' computers, preferably through a Trojan EULA that makes the whole thing legal). No, not legal. Spam isn't legal! I really do not get that angry with spammers. They are just rational entrepreneurs. Bleah. If spamming isn't unethical, what is? I have to disagree. Microsoft has proposed many different solutions to solving the spam problem. Its is largely the corporate world that balks at the use of these solutions, because they utilize it so frequently. Microsoft has seen fierce resistance against limiting spam, from the largest of corporations. But really, here is the crux of the whole problem, which I have stated many times before on this list. Spammers are successful because people make it profitable. People do respond and buy into the spammers message. It may take 10 million messages to get one sale, but they do get it. The spammers are providing a service to people who are selling something, and some dumb f*^er out there is buying his stuff. However, my complaint now is largely the spyware and adware that is plagueing the Internet. Microsoft, and most anti-virus companies were caught unaware of the destructiveness of these programs. At least Microsoft is now offering a beta of some pretty good anti-spyware software. Microsoft has also challenged its developers to look at why spyware is able to penetrate systems through normal software install methods. This cannot be done with administrative rights on the computer. The challenge to the developers is for them to learn how to run with limited rights, which provides protection, while still getting work done. I would expect to see some changes in the next version of Windows that allows greater freedom of use on local workstations while protecting the system by not allowing full administrative access at the shell level. Spam is technically only illegal in a few states. There is no mechanism to stop spam from out of the country. Perhaps better laws would make it illegal to purchase goods and services from spam ad's, but then you are inpinging on corporate america, who is by far the worst culprit of spam email messages. While they call it opting in, they use the same tricks of the trade to get the mail to your box, track your behavior, and get the successful sale. So you cannot stop spam by any measure because it is a successful marketing tool. You either inhibit legit spam in the process which would not be tolerated by corporations, or you stop reading email. Corporate America has made it clear that they do not want restrictions on the flow of their spam. Since there is no good alternative to email yet, we will have to live with it, not because spammers are evil, but because they and their customers are so good at making money. I know that much of the bad spam would be considered vulgar, and much of the bad spam is really scamware. One can either not read email, or they can live with constitutionally protected freedom of expression. Sure that there is a lot of scamming going on, but scamming is illegal, whether one uses a phone, tv ad, newspaper ad, web site, or person to person selling goods in back alleys. This hatred of spam is really just a response of trying to kill the messenger. Nick, perhaps the solution is to use the technology to paint scarlet letters on people who respond and buy goods via spam. These are the people that deserve scorn. Forget the spammers, fight the consumers! Nerd From Hell Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: SpamAdaption
-Original Message- From: Nick Arnett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 6:46 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: SpamAdaption [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick, perhaps the solution is to use the technology to paint scarlet letters on people who respond and buy goods via spam. These are the people that deserve scorn. Forget the spammers, fight the consumers! I couldn't disagree more. If I understood correctly, this sounded to me like justifying spam because it's profitable and holding only the users (people who buy) responsible. To me, the same argument could be made for selling heroin. Setting aside the question of whether or not these things should be illegal, I absolutely believe that like the heroin dealer, the spammer's behavior is grossly unethical. I don't think that the two are very different -- people can be addicted to spending. I suppose that I am bothered by spam, but I cannot judge whether or not it is unethical. You also do not address whether or not corporate America participating in legitimate spamming practices are considered unethical. Is it truly a question of intent, or the technique involved that determines its ethicalness. It's a real fine line. Its like porn, there are degrees in which porn becomes offensive to everyone. Is it when spam becomes offensive that is unethical? Is it when false information is provided in the Spam? You are very close to this issue, because you manage mail servers. What seems like a barrage or attack that costs you time and money can be frustrating and costly. But perhaps we agree that passing laws against either one is fairly useless, perhaps counter-productive. Cool. How about a plan of multiple Spam nexus (nexi?) where registered spammers can send mail to their recipients. People can then decide to reject all spam if it does not come from a specific or registered nexus. But then who would voluntarily submit to accepting mail from a nexus? Who wants to be sold? Like the insurance business, Insurance is sold not bought. There are no good solutions until the market decides to categorically reject spam. I doubt this will happen, because as the interest in spam wanes, the more honey will be added to the message to entice consumers. If you support free markets, you have to accept spam as a legit way of doing business. In the same way you cannot resist looking at the flashing advertising road signs, you also can't resist spam. You and a lot of people may feel its unethical, its obvious most don't, or at least they give it little thought. Certainly raising awareness of the detrimental costs to business may get a few people thinking. Spam fuels trade in the technology sector. There is little incentive right now to get rid of this scourge. Sure it costs companies to shovel the shit up and out of the barn. It has to be added to the cost of doing business. I consider many laws to be unethical, but I am not doing a lot about it. I go about my business. I delete the spam when I see it. I use mail services the filter most of it out. I live with it and move along. It's the cost of doing business. I truly sympathize with your plight, and empathize with your anger toward Spam. But the world is not ready yet collectively battle spam. By definition in a free market, it probably creates more industrial wealth, than it costs. Strange as that may be. Software has to be written to combat spam, servers have to be bolstered against it, network bandwidth increased, people hired to manage mail and the illnesses they contract, and so on. So you can mark down my vote as undecided as to whether or not its unethical. In the bigger picture it generates wealth. Then again, so does heroin sales. Nerd From Hell Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Leave it to the Japanese
It's a new form of napping called lapping . You heard it here first! I could see this being used in boring church services for children. -Original Message- From: maru [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:38 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Leave it to the Japanese Gives new meaning to 'lap-dances.' ~Maru Matt Grimaldi wrote: The fact that something like this was thought up and then marketed leaves me in stunned silence: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6717610/ -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Happy Holidays
-Original Message- From: maru [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 7:42 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Happy Holidays Ha! Foolish Gautam! Don't you know without your presence, Brin and Ockrossa will be free to spew their hateful anti-American lies unimpeded? But seriously, I concur. Jolly Holidays to everyone, be you celebrating Christmas, Chanukkah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, Winter-een-mas, Mithra's Day, or Emperor Norton day. ~Maru Don't forget Festivus (for the rest of us) NFH If I recall correctly, Christmas was illegal at one time here in America until the 1870's. Gautam Mukunda wrote: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everybody. I will be on vacation and away from e-mail for a while. My best to you and your families. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Asimo running
For all, The tinyurl.com web site is now blocked at my work. Can we all also include the full URL as well (my my sake please?) Thanks, Chad -Original Message- From: Dave Land [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 2:02 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Asimo running On Dec 20, 2004, at 12:54 PM, William T Goodall wrote: http://tinyurl.com/676vc Cute video clip. I spent a good while watching other clips on this site and reading up on ASIMO a couple of nights ago... On the (IIRC) Avoiding Obstacles video (the obstacle being a person), ASIMO does this cute little looking around dance while walking in place, and on another one involving interaction with humans, ASIMO looks almost like it is shrugging its shoulders, as if to say where the heck did she go? On the Avoiding Obstacles video, it appears that ASIMO is following the black lines on the floor -- it always walks in straight lines around the perimeter. It's amazing to see how much more human-looking the last few versions have become, especially now that it uses its upper body to maintain balance. Really awesome. I wonder how long it'll be 'til they have it driving cars? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Happy Holidays
-Original Message- From: Nick Arnett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 3:08 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Happy Holidays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I recall correctly, Christmas was illegal at one time here in America until the 1870's. Wow, if you can remember *that*, I'm tempted to speculate that the cause of your illness might have been old age. Nope... My illness - it was Soap - Poisoning! mom dad Ohh ohhh http://acs.flicklives.com/Movie/Pics/soap_1.jpg What do you recall about it? Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Holy S..t!
When you said Holy S...T! I thought you were talking about _Saints_ ... Because we all know saint is a 5 letter word to some of list members.. Thanks for trolling the Athiests of the group ;-) NFH -Original Message- From: G. D. Akin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:56 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Holy S..t! Stargate SG-1: Most of you may know, if you are fans of the show, but we are only into Season 7 over here in Korea. Ironically, I have Season 7 on DVD and SPOILER * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SPOILER In part two of Heros Dr. Frazier died. S..t! I didn't see that coming although I had heard she left the show. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Holy S..t!
This really makes not sense, unless you understand I am under heavy pain medication and could not accurately count the number of dots. I better not post for the rest of the day Its only entertaining to myself right now. Sorry.. A dumber post by the Nerd From Hell than normal. Chadster , Nerd From Hell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 12:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Holy S..t! When you said Holy S...T! I thought you were talking about _Saints_ ... Because we all know saint is a 5 letter word to some of list members.. Thanks for trolling the Athiests of the group ;-) NFH -Original Message- From: G. D. Akin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:56 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Holy S..t! Stargate SG-1: Most of you may know, if you are fans of the show, but we are only into Season 7 over here in Korea. Ironically, I have Season 7 on DVD and SPOILER * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SPOILER In part two of Heros Dr. Frazier died. S..t! I didn't see that coming although I had heard she left the show. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Won what? (was Re: So it begins....)
-Original Message- From: Horn, John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:16 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Won what? (was Re: So it begins) Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Next time, maybe the democrats should be encouraging democracy in the third world instead of whining about how bad Bush is for America. It worked for Bush. What they should really be complaining about is how bad of a republican Bush is! Great post! I agree with just about everything in there 100%. Also, it sounds remarkably like what Dr. Brin has been preaching in his postings on his website and his arguments with JDG and Gautam. At least, when you get past the rhetoric about frat-boys and Manchurian candidates and all... Yes, Dr. Brin gave what I thought one of his best speeches at the Libertarian Party convention last year. He had stated that the roles of democrat and republican has become... Say Gender-confused? Bi-curious legislation? Too yangy or yingy? Alas even the libertarian party was confused this year about what their line was. There was a mighty large number of hard-core libertarians who voted for Bush this year (like me). The libertarians have become too kooky for most moderate libertarians. Thanks for your support! Nerd From Hell - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: WHAT? Five dead in deer hunting dispute
-Original Message- From: Nick Arnett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:12 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: WHAT? Five dead in deer hunting dispute Dave Land wrote: What's really sad is that my wife gets this here in California. Does... she... speak... English??? DO YU SPEAK EEN-GLIS (really loud voice) hehehee... (Inside joke, but perhaps it comes across to the rest of y'all.) Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: WHAT? Five dead in deer hunting dispute
-Original Message- From: Gary Nunn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 3:34 AM To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' Subject: WHAT? Five dead in deer hunting dispute This sounds the like the beginning to a really, really bad You might be a redneck if joke. The most amazing thing, even more than the idiot who shot 5 people over a tree stand, was the comment of another hunter in the area (see below) . I'm not anti-hunting, but I am anti-stupidity. Gary I think the story is a bit different. It was more of a story of a bunch of hunters running into a crazy Cambodian refugee who has a history of threatening people with guns. The press is trying to turn this into some racial thing, because the perp is stating that he was taunted with racial slurs then fired upon, making it self defense. The reality is that this guy tresspasses, gets in a fight with the property owners, and when they threaten him by reporting him to the wardens for illegal hunting, he decided to hunt them down. Since he trained as a sharpshooter in the army, he got the jump on most of the hunters, where he then went and actually hunted the rest down, gunning them down as they ran. There may have been racial slurs flying along with the bullets. I mean, if I was being hunted down by a psychopath cambodian sharpshooter in the woods, I think I might use a few choice words like You crazy fu*in' Cambodian! Stop shooting at me! as the bullets are flying by. Later, the perp wandered around for a few hours, until he ran into another hunting party. He acted as if nothing had happened to this group. If he was acting in self defense, he did not act like it. This is a case that would make a good TV drama... Nerd From Hell Five dead in deer hunting dispute BIRCHWOOD, Wis. - A deer hunter shot and killed five people and injured three others in northwestern Wisconsin following a dispute about a tree stand during the hunt's opening weekend, authorities said. When you're hunting you don't expect somebody to try to shoot you and murder you, he said. You have no idea who is coming up to you. It took about three hours to round up the other hunters, who were up to four miles apart, Wagner said. We're all old, dyed-in-wool hunters, he said. We wouldn't go home because of this but we will keep it in our minds. We're not forgetting it. Complete article http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6551094/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Won what? (was Re: So it begins....)
I don't think this is about winning or losing elections. To me, it is about how the leadership views the nation. The party that wins the White House and Congress hasn't won the country in the way that the person with a winning lottery ticket wins the money. Elections are our way of making the best decision we can, not our way of deciding who was right and who was wrong. It is much more of a conversation than a contest; I think those who talk about it more as a contest than a conversation do us all a great disservice. In a fair election, there are no losers. Sadly, it seems that hardly anyone is willing to look at it that way these days. Hey... That's how I feel... But I did not think other list members agreed. Some additional thoughts I have had on the subject are: The closeness of the race is an indicator of how close we came to choosing the best candidate In a presidential election, a democracy will never pick the smartest or the greatest, but rather they will choose the candidate that is the best at influence. Its built into the nature of being president. Without influence, a democracy can't work. A country that can't change will decay. Influence is directly related to this change. I find it strange how people think the president has so much power that he can ruin a country. Both side pointed fingers at both candidate and stated vote for me, because he will ruin America. No president has that power, unless you count the fact he has a finger on the button. But for overall, everyday influence to our lives, the president has little to do with making change. While Bush has an advantage with a republican senate, it only goes so far. Kerry would have had a much worse time getting work done or pushing his new Agenda or what ever you call influence. So Bush is now president for a another 4 years. Just how far do you think he can go in that time? Was it any worse with Clinton? Both Presidents did more change that could be considered anti-thetical to their own party. Both did some pretty good things while president. Kerry fans should be glad for a few reasons: He can't be blamed when we see a economic decline in 2006-7. He can't be blamed if we lose the war in Iraq or the war on terror. And so on and so on... He can't be blamed. Bush may get some things right, or not. Regardless, the president now can push his agenda and perhaps a few things will change for the better - or not. The key in my mind is that without influence, there is NO chance for change. At least Bush has a better chance than Kerry would have for change. This is all that counts.. Without change, we stagnate. An lastly, as Americans, we pretty much get what we want as a majority regardless of who is in charge as president. What burns the democrats is that they are not a majority, and so they don't get what they want. Its no way to run a party. The democrat party is suppose to be the party of the people, yet it's a minority. The democrats would like to believe that somehow numbers don't matter and it's the rich that are screwing us. Again, if only 10% or so of Americans are considered very wealthy, why don't the democrats have the massive numbers to support the common belief that they represent the common man? The answer to this question is beyond my humble understanding of politics. It seems to me that the democrats have been out-democrated by the republicans, and thus the republican deserve control for now, since again, its about making change. The democrats should be happy that they have 4 more years to reach parity with the common man. Oh and one last dig at my favorite democrat - Michael Moore - who did more to help the republican party that any other person on this planet. No one comes close to building up a collective guilt about being an American. He preached that if you vote for Kerry, then you agree that the War is wrong, and you are not so dumb. He said if you vote for bush, you are an idiot, who is practically guilty of war crimes. He used collective guilt as a platform for voting for Kerry. A vote for Kerry is an admission of guilt for supporting the war. I generally believe that people would rather vote the self-righteous vote - a vote for Bush means we did the right thing in IRAQ. People prefer righteousness over guilt any day of the week. I would like to believe what we are doing in Iraq is right. Michael Moore would like you to believe otherwise. It was a strategic failure on the democratic side to support Michael Moore. The Bush Bashing got him nothing other than to be known as an anti-American sloganist. Instead, the democrats should have held to their traditional beliefs that the common man deserves freedom, even Iraqi's, and that its America's role to bring democracy to the world. When a hard-core republican like Bush acts like a democrat, the democrats act like isolationist republicans, the democrats will always lose. The democrats suck at being isolationists. That's why they gave up the
RE: What can you not buy on Amazon?
-Original Message- From: Warren Ockrassa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:16 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: What can you not buy on Amazon? On Nov 22, 2004, at 5:06 PM, Robert G. Seeberger wrote: http://tinyurl.com/64eex Dare one ask how you came by this item to begin with? I daren't, that's for sure. It's a psychological tool to help loosen up anal-retentive personalities... Or it's a technique instruction to help with the discomfort of pulling your head out of your ass - for those that this is a reality and not a metaphor! Got knows I NEED this DVD! NFH -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Mach 9.7 (She did it by! She did it!)
It really just means NASA has completed a millitary research project that will allow the military and intelligence community a new technology to spy or bomb our enemies (really fast!). I can't honestly expect to see a Scramjet 787 anytime in the next, say 30 years. I also don't see it ever replacing rockets to space. If you want my opinion, NASA should be working on something else other than spending 250 million so the military can create fast cruise missiles or for the NSA to create a new skunkwork spy plane drones that missiles can't hit. It really just seems to be a project that has no scientific value, and only inflates NASA nerd ego and serves the military for technology we don't need. I mean, come on 250 million dollars for 10 seconds of flight? Mach 9 is cool though Just expensive. Nerd From Hell -Original Message- From: Travis Edmunds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mach 9.7 (She did it by! She did it!) http://space.com/missionlaunches/x43a_success_041116.html LOS ANGELES (AP) -- A tiny unmanned NASA scramjet soared above the Pacific Ocean Tuesday at nearly 10 times the speed of sound, or almost 7,000 mph, in a successful demonstration of a radical new engine technology. The 12-foot-long X-43A supersonic combustion ramjet reached about Mach 9.7, said Leslie Williams, a spokeswoman at NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards Air Force Base. The exotic aircraft was designed to fly under its own power for about 10 seconds after separating from a booster rocket at 110,000 feet, then glide to a splash landing. Details of the craft's exact performance were to be announced later from Dryden, but mission officials were jubilant immediately after the brief flight. Once again we made aviation history. We did that in March when we went seven times the speed of sound and now we've done it right around 10 times the speed of sound, said Vince Rausch, Hyper-X program manager from NASA's Langley Research Center in Virginia. The X-43A, mounted on a Pegasus rocket used to boost it to flight speed, was carried under the wing of a B-52 aircraft and released at an altitude of 40,000 feet over a test range off the Southern California coast. The rocket motor then fired for a 90-second ascent. Like its predecessors, the X-43A will not be recovered from the ocean. The flight was the last in a $230 million-plus effort to test technology most likely to be initially used in military aircraft, such as a bomber that could reach any target on Earth within two hours of takeoff from the United States, or to power missiles. Scramjets may also provide an alternative to rockets for space launches. Unlike conventional jet engines which use rotating fan blades to compress air for combustion, the X-43A has no rotating engine parts. Instead it uses the underside of the aircraft's forebody to ``scoop'' up and compress air for mixing with hydrogen fuel. The X-43A launched Tuesday was the last of three built for NASA's Hyper-X program. The first X-43A flight failed in 2001 when the booster rocket veered off course and was destroyed. The second X-43A successfully flew in March, reaching Mach 6.83 -- nearly 5,000 mph -- and setting a world speed record for a plane powered by an air-breathing engine. That was more than double the top speed of the jet-powered SR-71 Blackbird spyplane, which at slightly more than Mach 3 is the fastest air-breathing, manned aircraft. The old X-15 was the fastest rocket-powered manned airplane, hitting Mach 6.7. Rockets do not breathe air, but instead carry oxidizers that are combined with fuel to allow combustion. Not having to carry oxygen is one of the advantages scramjets hold over rockets. Rockets can also achieve high speeds, but the weight of oxygen tanks or other oxidizers reduces the amount of payload they can carry. Tuesday's launch was expected to be the last research flight for NASA's B-52, which is being retired after some 40 years of service. = -Travis Sensor Excel Edmunds _ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft(r) SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994D I=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN(r) Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Nerd From Hell is back from the dead!
Hi ya'll. You probably did not notice that I dropped out of the list for some time - about 7 months. If you remember, I last left the list after announcing that I was diagnosed with Cancer, and was starting treatment. Well I am glad to say that THAT'S over with. It was tough, and if anyone has gone though it, you know what I mean. So now I am back, feeling better, and a bit more fiendish. So for those that are a bit curious about my treatment I will give the gory details: 1 surgery to remove a lymph node 8 treatments, 3 weeks apart 3 full-body CT scans (equivalent to about 300 x-rays each) 2 bone-marrow biopsies (if you have ever been punched in the kidneys, you now know what it feels like.) 1 hospital stay 4 days 2 trips to the emergency room to treat complications from the surgery. Cytoxin(200mg) A form of Nitrogen Mustard, an alkylating agent designed to damage DNA, thereby causing cell death to dividing cells. Nitrogen Mustard was developed in the early 30's as a potential chemical warfare agent - now used as a chemotherapy agent. Vincristine (1-2 mg) Made from Periwinkle, a poisonous plan with the primary component of Vinca alkaloids. A microtubule inhibitor to sabotage mitosis in process, causing cell death. Side effects include neuropathy (numbness in the hands and feet). This also put me in the hospital for 4 days because my small intestines stopped working for a while. Prednesdone (100mg). A cortical steroid commonly used as an anti-inflammatory and at high doses, it destroys B-cells causing immunosuppression. Can cause withdrawal, as the adrenal glands shut down with the high doses. The first 2 drugs are delivered through an IV and the steroid is in pill form. It took about 3 hours to get the drugs in. The drugs are prepared in a vented and shielded chemical lab chamber. Additionally, I was given a new drug called Aloxi, for nausea ($800 bucks a dose!) Chemotherapy has changed a lot in the last few years. I experienced no vomiting, and lost little hair. The biggest side effects were low-grade nausea, fatigue, peripheral neuropathy, and depression. Most all of the side effects are gone now. There was also an unexpected side effect - anticipatory nausea. When ever I think about the chemo, I get nauseas. The other day, a nurse wheeled in a IV pole into the exam room during my bone marrow biopsy, and the sight of it made me sick. I also get sick when ever I see my nurse that delivered the chemo. I feel bad about that, but it is uncontrollable. The last few treatments, I started getting sick before I actually got treatment. I am now in what is called a complete response state, meaning that I have responded completely to the treatment and have little if any evidence of disease. However, Indolent Follicular Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma is currently not curable, but it can be controlled for years or even decades. The disease will come back, with a mean time of 14 months to recurrence. In April, if all goes well, I will be starting a clinical trial. A double blind study to measure survivability with a treatment of a customized vaccine. I say customized, because it is a vaccine for one - me. They took a lymph node from my groin, froze it, and sent it to a company called Genitope (www.genitope.com) in California. If I do actually get a vaccine instead of a placebo, this vaccine will be customized as an agent that will contain the same protein receptors my cancer cells uniquely express. It will be bound to a some foreign animal protein. The thought is that my immune system will generate a immune response to the vaccine, and in the process, will trick my immune system into thinking the cancer cells are not-self. For those in the past who have had this Idiotype Vaccine that got this response, most are still in remission, possibly for life. Time will tell. Anyway, I don't expect to die soon, with the average median survival rate for someone my age is 70% at 10 years. Since the Vaccine is very new, it is not known how or if it affects survivability. Anyway, for the meantime, I will send scouted articles of some of the bleeding edge cancer research to the group, since I am very much interested in the subject (for natural reasons). Anyway... I'm back. God save you all! Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brin: the new know nothings
Are you suggesting that less religious people cohabit with multiple (serial, perhaps) partners before marrying one, thereby getting practice that a more religious -- and presumably chaste -- group might not have? If so, that's an intriguing suggestion and it would be interesting to see some numbers on that. If not, well, it's still intriguing. ;) http://www.altpenis.com/penis_news/20030706221939data_trunc_sys.shtml This study suggests that living together first leads to MORE divorce. Note in the quote about how shackin' up leads to less church going The Penn State team notes that research indicates that people choose riskier partners when cohabiting because they think cohabitation will be easier to break up than marriage. However, once a couple is living together, the fact that they share possessions, pets, and children and have invested time in their relationship may propel them to marry. Research has also shown that living together in an unconventional relationship can make people less religious and may encourage them to develop problematic relationship skills and to spend less time resolving problems or providing support to their partners. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Bring on the Violent video games
Graphic, Violent Images Can Curb Kids' Aggression http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNewsstoryID=5182859src =rss/healthNewssection=news Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Favorite bad Sci-Fi movies on DVD
How about Spaceballs? This was a good movie. With classic gags like Canned Air, John Candy as Barf, Part man, part Man's best friend, virgin klaxon warning, The Swartz, Jammed radar (with real jam), ludicrous speed, plot twists where they use technology to view the movie before it reaches the video rental market, to find out where the heroes are hiding, the huge and easy to use self-destruct button, and so on and so on... Definitely not a bad Sci-fi, but one of the best. Actually, when it comes to sci-fi movies, it is the rare movie that becomes a good classic, most become video rental store dross. To stay on topic here, we are talking about bad sci-fi that makes it to DVD. I expect there really won't be many noteworthy that make it. My vote for the best on DVD Dark Star - The Spaced Out Spaceship http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0F169/104-4660137-4308766 ?v=glance Nerd from Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Favorite bad Sci-Fi movies on DVD
My vote for the best on DVD Dark Star - The Spaced Out Spaceship http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0F169/104-4 660137-4308766 ?v=glance Oh, I take it back http://www.sonypictures.com/homevideo/starshiptroopers2heroofthefederation/i ndex.html Nerd from Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Favorite bad Sci-Fi movies on DVD
Battle Beyond the Stars Ahh A story about Johnboy and his symbyotic facial mole. Boy meets Alien Amazon woman, Alien Amazon woman gets frisky with on Boy, Boy saves the ranch from the evil landlord. I really loved the stereotypes in this movie. Nerd From Hell The Last Starfighter Space Camp Independence Day ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Marcial Angell's perspectives on me too drugs
Marcial Angell's perspectives on me too drugs. The former editor in chief of The New England Journal of Medicine, Marcia Angell is currently a senior lecturer in social medicine at Harvard Medical School. She disputes the pharmaceutical companies' argument that they need a high profit margin to fund the research and development of new medicines. In fact, she says, the industry piggybacks off publicly funded research at the National Institutes of Health and other academic institutions. She also argues that most of the companies' profits are not derived from new drugs, but rather from me too drugs, or imitations of drugs already on the market. This interview was conducted on Nov. 26, 2002. =After a period where health care costs flattened, they're going up sharply. Why is the pharmaceutical sector [of health care costs] rising the fastest? There are a couple of reasons. One [is] price inflation. The price for the top-selling drugs now averages about $100 for a month's prescription of that drug. It's well over $1,000 a year. The price per drug is increasing about three times the rate of inflation. So one is just prices. The other is, through advertising and PR and marketing, consumers are being switched or preferentially led to take newly patented high-price drugs rather than generic drugs that might be just as effective. So the kinds of drugs that are being used are the high-priced drugs. Third is just the increased volume of use. More people are taking more drugs. This too is a part of promotion and marketing. For all of life's discontents, according to the pharmaceutical industry, there is a drug and you should take it. Then for the side effects of that drug, then there's another drug, and so on. So we're all taking more drugs, and more expensive drugs. =Who's most affected by this price inflation and increased drug costs? The sick and the helpless are those who are most affected by this price inflation. That is, if you have good insurance that would pay for a prescription drug benefit -- and fewer and fewer of us do have such insurance -- but if you do have that insurance, the HMO through which you have the insurance will bargain for price discounts from the drug companies, get them somewhat cheaper -- in fact, a lot cheaper. You will have to pay less in out-of-pocket contributions. But for those who are not well insured for prescription drug costs, they're pretty much left on their own. These are mainly Medicare recipients who have no supplementary insurance. Medicare, through historical accident, really, does not pay for outpatient prescription drugs. So Medicare recipients have to pay out of pocket, unless they have supplemental insurance. Not only do they have to pay out of pocket, but they're likely to be taking more drugs. So if you just look at the price of one of the top selling drugs -- $1200 per year -- and you look at older patients and seniors, who may be taking five or six of these drugs, you can see that they're up to many thousands a year. These are the most vulnerable people. They pay twice as much for drugs, on average, as will insured younger people who get their drugs through HMOs. =People who are covered have no idea what drugs actually cost. Seniors are one of the few groups who actually know the market price. That's right. They're the ones who are complaining the loudest, and they should. The rest of us are still, to some extent, cushioned from the realities of this incredible price gouging that's going on by the pharmaceutical industry. We're still cushioned to some extent, but that is going to be less and less. We're going to see our insurers paying just a defined contribution, and we will have to make up the rest, or dropping prescription drug benefits altogether. So we too will find out about this very shortly. =Some seniors in border states notice that drugs are cheaper in Canada, and they actually go and get them. What does that tell us about the two systems? Well, the United States is the only advanced country that permits the pharmaceutical industry to charge exactly what the market will bear, whatever it wants. The other advanced countries in Europe and Canada have some form of price control, either mandatory volume discounts or some way of limiting price. So on average, Canada spends half of what we spend for the exact same drugs. Half. So if you live on a border state and you can make a bus trip to Canada and have a prescription, you can -- particularly if you're a senior citizen who has to pay for drugs out of pocket, and have to take a lot of them -- you can do very well by taking that bus trip to Canada. =One argument [is that] he Canadians don't invent the drugs. They're parasitic on our RD. It's unfair. In fact, the pharmaceutical industry is what's parasitic on publicly funded research. The pharmaceutical industry likes to depict itself as a research-based industry, as the source of innovative drugs. Nothing could be further from the truth.
RE: March for Women's Lives
-Original Message- From: Robert Seeberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 4:57 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: March for Women's Lives - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 2:57 PM Subject: Re: March for Women's Lives As a new member can I ask if he is always like this? Every single post. Is this supposed to be satire? More like trollery. Trollery is not an english word, and the use of such is an act of trollery. Nerd From Hell xponent Unmodified Baseline Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: This time I won't blame Bush
That's really brilliant -- counter an ad hominem argument with another one. You got it! I was so afraid that would go over everyone's heads. Now, there may be some irony intended in that. I'll assume that ML is calculating enough to have planted the irony intentionally, and give him half a point for it. I'm more generous: you deserve a full point for your facility in belaboring the obvious. Wow! Going after the most consistently inoffensive person on this list with an insult. Not just that, But Julia is the heart and soul of this little community. Alas, Robert, you missed the subtly respectful and eloquent response Mike paid to Julia. I am impressed. I hope Julia is as well. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Mike Lee quotes
Mike-- I wouldn't want to offend you after all the care you have taken not to hurt anyone's feelings, but there's a rumor that you are an alter ego of an established list member. I'm now curious... Who is Mike Lee? Who could he be? What rumors? I have not hear any rumors... Am I out of the loop here? Hello? Putting aside my insignificant social role here (that role would be Baghdad Bob of the Brin List) I must say that Mike could not really be someone on the list. Who on this list can compare in terms of his writing skill? WHO I ASK!!! It would be obvious that Mike Lee would be a shadow of the real Slim Shady. So who exactly can compete in writing against him? A artist pretending to be another artist is some artist. How could a puppet act better than the real person? So far I have not seen anyone really hold a strong stick against Mike. People are spitting and kicking dirt on the umps shoes, relying upon a hope that maybe he is He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, so we can dismiss his rantings as the acts of a sad and hopeless, unrecognized (yet sensitive) intellectual. So the mystery thickens. Everyone is screaming troll under the bridge out of frustration. The argument is that Mike is one of us.. (sorry Mike, don' mean to discriminate you vs. us but, I have a point to make here ...) yet he is kicking some serious liberal butt. When the Fool himself, the other masked avenger of our group start to whine about Mike the Troll, I get a good chuckle. Who is this Masked man? Or should I say Who is Mike Lee? I have to take a stand here and say to everyone Give Mike a Chance... And I Like Mike. It could be that Mike is really just a normal guy who is the fair victim of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named (love saying that!). What I see is attempts to demonize Mike because, well ... He's winning... Nerd Who Must Not Be Named ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Enterprise cancelled?
The problem I have, currently with Trek, is the overreliance on plot motivations coming from TIME TRAVEL. This plot device has been so overused its become a Trek cliche. I disagree. I think the time travel stuff is great. In fact, I think the next series should be based upon the time corp, and their wacky antics keeping the timelines straight. It's Colonel Flagg meets Mulder. They can weave in and out of the past series, and do a lot of What if's... They can repopularize ST cameo appearances. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Iraq and Vietnam
The current uprising is really a last stand, so to speak, for the insurgents. Despise the numbers of US soldiers being killed, the ratio to insurgents is very high. The methodology of roadside bombs was expensive, and not very effective. To kill enough soldiers to truly demoralize the army is logistically tough if not impossible. Even at a rate of 5 dead soldier a day will only kill 2000 soldiers in the next year. With 100,000 soldiers, there is a 2% chance of being killed by a roadside bomb in the next year. Hardly demoralizing. So the strategy of the insurgents changed recently. They formed a larger group, hoping to use sniping as a new method of attack. They draw in troops into cities, then attack from the windows and eves of homes. The fallacy of this strategy is that the insurgent leadership has no goddamn stomach to really fight this war. Without strong leadership, it is unlikely that the insurgents will be successful in the near future. The leaders run before battles are even decided, letting the faithful insurgents to battle to the death or be captured. The rate in which the insurgents are being killed or captured does not allow the insurgency uprising much longer. It cannot be sustained. Everyone in Iraq that plans on being an insurgent is already an insurgent. With the borders heavily guarded, this will place no additional resources into the hands of the insurgents. Even now, US solders are busting down doors to search for weapons... And finding them. The populace are willing to hoard the weapons, but are not willing to use them. The war is about over. 6 months from now, it will be Iraqi soldier shooting at Iraqi insurgents. There is not enough time for the insurgents to possibly gain anything except for heroic martyrs. So, despite an apparent near victory for the allies, I get irked when news media reports that 100 soldiers have been killed this month, the most since the campaign began, and 800 *civilians* killed this month a long with them. Is not the definition of a civilian someone who is civil, and not combative? Civilian: A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police. A specialist in Roman or civil law. adj. Of or relating to civilians or civil life; nonmilitary: civilian clothes; a civilian career. [Middle English, civil law judge, from Old French civilien, from civil, civil, from Latin cvlis. See civil.] Yet the press somehow skews the reporting to somehow indicate that many Iraqi civilians are dying at the hands of US troops. So we are in trouble, but its not from the Iraqis. To use a metaphor I have been closely relating to, the enemy is a cancer within our own body, working at odds to diminish and destroy the works of brave and honorable people. The enemy is within us. If this is what Viet Nam was like, we are suffering from a recurrence of this disease. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Welcome to life in George W. Bush's America
-Original Message- From: Andrew Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 8:44 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Welcome to life in George W. Bush's America From: Mike Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom Beck, after sticking his foot in his mouth, sucks hard trying to get his leg in at least up to the shin: Incidentally, by slugging my original post, Welcome to life in George W. Bush's America, I did not mean to imply that Bush himself bears any responsibility for what is happening. My point was, for the past 3+ years, we've been ruled by an administration that has shown next to no concern for corporate malfeasance of any kind and has attempted to eliminate most regulations concerning corporate behavior. There's nothing I can add that won't go over the head of anyone who needs me to add something. Aww, go on humour us poor idiots, enlighten us with your wisdom Mike. I clearly need a lot more lessons from our wise Islamic Moderate cos I just aint getting the hang of it now. Andrew Now YOU are trolling. NFH ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Winning the War on Terror
Don't forget hanging mutilated corpses on bridges and dancing around the bridge chanting death to Americans... Sorry, but I feel compelled to state that Islam didn't hang mutilated corpses from bridges or dance around the bridge or chant death to Americans. A mob of deranged people did that. That's acceptable. Lets call them those people in the Middle East, that are of Arabic origin, who want the Americans out of their country, and would not hesitate to kill an American if they could get away with it, who also happen to read the Koran every once in a while. I mean really, lets not pigeon-hole all Muslims... Just the ones that what Americans dead. Here is the breakdown of Ethnic and Religions in Iraq. Ethnic groups - Arab 75%-80%, Kurdish 15%-20%, Turkoman, Assyrian or other 5% Religions Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3% Iraq is a muslim culture. It dominates and shapes their way of thinking. The religion may be innocent, but the culture is not. Perhaps is is sad that there is such a close relationship between countries that want to kill Americans and Islam. But the facts are that Islam in countries OTHER than the US generally hates all Americans. Those who do not move to America. Here in the states, we see the best of the best in terms of Islamic followers. I have nothing against Muslims who live here. I have a Mulsim family living next door to me. I have no beef with them. Believe me, I am no apologist for Muslim culture, I just know the difference between a set of beliefs and an angry mob in a famously violent city. Bullshit. We have angry mobs demonstrating in most major cities in the US every year. They are not hanging dead people they just murdered on the highest point of the city. Even in the worst cases here, where law enforcement was not in control, the mobsters were not beng barbaric. Angry mobs in America may kill someone every once in a while, but never to the degree it is happening on a wide scale in Iraq against Americans every day. But you are right about Fallujah, it is a very bad, famous city - one that deserves more fame by beng the first modern city to be razed to the ground by a modern army. They can certainly understand the symbolism of this - its written all throughout their Koran. Nerd From Hell Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Winning the War on Terror
The reason some Islamic countries are generating suicide warriors is that the women are raising kids faster than the economy expands. Is this an effect of polygamy in middle eastern countries? Other poor countries spend a lot of effort raising children that die of horrible diseases. This seems less a problem in most middle east countries. What can you comment about the differences between say a poor arabic country and a poor African country? NFH More detail if anyone wants it. Keith Henson ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Winning the War on Terror
OTOH what religion does dance in the streets when innocents are killed? Don't forget hanging mutilated corpses on bridges and dancing around the bridge chanting death to Americans... Any civilization that permits this deserves some serious re-arrangement of their belief system. Apologetics to the Muslim culture should seriously ask themselves at what point is this behavior acceptable. What really pisses me off is when the same people who are dancing around a bridge where mutilated corpses are hanging from, they have the ignorance to say well, that just may be against what the Koran teaches. Killing Americans is OK, but mutilating the bodies may be immoral - MAYBE?!?!?! I really don't have the adjective to describe how this makes me feel. Nerd from Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
So-called perils of Outsourcing
http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/briefs/tbp-019es.html Executive Summary Fears about job losses and chronic job shortages are on the loose again. Over the past few years, millions of U.S. jobs have disappeared, and foreign competition is increasingly taking the blame. Manufacturing jobs are supposedly fleeing to China, while service-sector jobs are being offshored to India. Job losses are always painful, and the recent recession and sluggish recovery have meant real hardship for many Americans. It is important, however, to shun hysteria and demagoguery in assessing what is going on with the labor market and why. The employment picture today is that of a temporary, cyclical shortage of jobs caused by the recent downturn; there is no permanent shortage of good jobs on the horizon. Even in good times, job losses are an inescapable fact of life in a dynamic market economy. Old jobs are constantly being eliminated as new positions are created. Total U.S. private-sector jobs increased by 17.8 million between 1993 and 2002. To produce that healthy net increase, a breath-taking total of 327.7 million jobs were added, while 309.9 million jobs were lost. In other words, for every one new net private-sector job created during that period, 18.4 gross job additions had to offset 17.4 gross job losses. International trade contributes only modestly to this frenetic job turnover. Between 2000 and 2003, manufacturing employment dropped by nearly 2.8 million, yet imports of manufactured goods rose only 0.6 percent. Meanwhile, despite the new offshoring trend, the Department of Labor is forecasting a 35 percent increase in computer-and math-related jobs over the next decade. Calls for new trade restrictions to preserve current jobs are misguided. There is no significant difference between jobs lost because of trade and those lost because of technologies or work processes. All of those job losses are a painful but necessary part of the larger process of innovation and productivity increases that is the source of new wealth and rising living standards. http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/briefs/tbp-019.pdf (Full text ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Not so likely
-Original Message- From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:53 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Not so likely At 12:38 PM 3/22/04, William T Goodall wrote: http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/sciences/story/ 0,12243,1164894,00.html A scientist has calculated that there is a 67% chance that God exists. snip Mr Sharp said William Hill does take bets on the second coming, which currently stand at 1,000/1. For this confirmation is needed from the Archbishop of Canterbury. You mean the Archbishop has to call Mr Sharp after he gets off the phone after he gets the call from Salt Lake City? Correction: He checks his Moroni Cam for activity! Nerd From Hell http://bessie.englab.slcc.edu/cgi-bin/cams?cam=zcmi -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: IQtest.com, was Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Yowza - I got 160. Anyone else been tested at multiple points in their past? If so, have you maintained your score? Yes.. Nothing personal but this test of way off of other tests I have seen in the past. It is inflated about 15-25 points in my estimation. Since it uses speed of thought as a principal indicator, it does not reflect well with other IQ tests, which do include speed, but not to the same caliber for determining IQ. Although I have not taken this test at iqtest.com, it is my opinion that if it does not contain spatial relationships tests, it is favoring left-brained people who are generally better at math and linear logic questions than right-brained people. As an example, The Mensa tests strongly favors math geeks. There is no room for brilliant artists in Mensa not that I'm bitter or anything... its just they fail to recongize me as a brilliant, yet sensitive, artiste. Nerd From Hell -its all meaningless, anyways- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
One year anniversary of start of Gulf War II
Its today In case anyone was interested. Nerd from Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Terrorists Win in Spain
You don't have to apologize Doug. It's no biggie. But, in Canada disagreeing with the Bush admin, there was certainly a backwash against us down south. And I would be very interested in ANY American opinions on this. I thought we made it VERY clear in the South Park Movie!?!?!!! ...Heck no, Blame Canada! Blame Canada! With their hockey hullabaloo, and that bitch Anne Murray, too! Blame Canada! Shame on Canada.. For, the smut we must stop.. the trash we must smash.. The laugher and fun.. must all be undone.. We must blame them.. and cause a fuss.. before somebody thinks of blaming us! Lyrics from South Park Movie Nerd From Hell -Travis you're either with us or against us Edmunds _ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994; DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Everything I know about life, I learned from 'The Young Ones'
For you fans of the Young Ones, there is now a DVD with every STOOPID episode available at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B6AUH9/qid=1079654123/sr=8 -1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-2401097-5713436?v=glances=dvdn=507846 Nerd From Hell -Original Message- From: Jan Coffey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:38 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Everything I know about life, I learned from 'The Young Ones' --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tom Beck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From MSNBC.com: A delusional man who apparently believed he was Jesus Christ built a wooden cross and tried to nail his hands to it in a horrific bid to re-create the crucifixion, police say. Am I the only this reminds of the classic joke from the 1980s stupid British comedy show The Young Ones, in which Rick, to protest the council's decision to tear down their house, decides to crucify himself on the outside wall. And Neil, the mournful burned-out hippy wanders by and says, It can't be done. I've tried it a hundred times. There' s no way you can hammer in that last nail.? Ow Nooe ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
The bottom line - Don't let gays destroy marriage - that's the job of the Republicans! Looking deeper, this is nothing more that Serial Polygamy. The only difference is the time line it occurs. There are laws against parallel polygamy, but not serial polygamy. You are right... Its hypocritical to act as if gay Marriage is wrong for biblical reasons, yet they do not hold themselves to the same biblical standards. If they truly support traditional, culturally acceptable, biblically correct marriage, they would allow other forms of marriage including parallel polygamy. Because they do NOT, they have no basis in which to judge other forms of marriage. Nerd From Hell xponent Just Another Anti-Republican Screed Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Stargate SG-1
... Stargate: Atlantis was geared more toward the younger audience than SG-1 currently has and is using younger actors and more action oriented storylines, not to mention the TA factor to a greater degree than SG-1 did. It's a goner...!! TA automatically takes it out of the serious Sci-fi genre, into an Aaron Spelling-isk drama... Enterprise is riding that line... BTW anyone see the Enterprise Season Final? Enterprise is getting its ass kicked... Very cool. Nerd from Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Gas Prices
-Original Message- From: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:13 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Gas Prices At 01:54 PM 3/7/2004 -0800 Damon Agretto wrote: You also have to consider the cost-of-living factor. I know, FREX, that its overall cheaper to live in PA than in NJ. Gas sellers will only try to sell gas at the highest price they think the market will bear. It is also important to realize the full economics of gas. When you fill up your tank with gas, you aren't only paying for the extraction, refining, and transportation of the gasoline, plus some amount of taxes, but you are also contributing towards the lease of the land the gas station is on, the property taxes of the gas station, and the salaries of the employees. We have the additional cost for environmental training of gas pumpers (not ANYONE can pump gas in Oregon). Civilians are not alllowed to pump gas. It requires state certification. It is against the law to pump your own gas, or to even handle the pumps. Pump your own gas?... GO TO JAIL! It's the LAW!!! Is this the same in NJ? It translates to about an extra 10 cents per gallon. We are paying about 1.80-1.90 pg I drive a little car I like to call Pokey... but it was not built for getting good gas mileage. I average 21 MPG, with an average speed of 25 MPH using 91 octane gas (Premium). I can get better gas mileage if I modify the supercharger and override the computer programming.. but who cares... I'm not spending 100 bucks a week on gas like some commuters who drive Evil SUV's. Poor suckers paying 3 bucks a gallon this summer... I'll be laughing AT them! Nerd From Hell In New Jersey in particular, all gas stations are required to be full-serve by State Law, which is partly why the State keep the gas taxes lower. Likewise, the land-costs of the gas station will be much higher in an inner city than in an outer-suburb. Most gasoline is sold as a loss-leader by the gas station. This is particularly true in States like Pennsylvania and New Jersey where discount-marketers like WaWa, Wal-Mart, and Sheetz have helped drive down the price. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Banks' Culture Was: Race to the Bottom
-Original Message- From: ritu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:12 PM To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' Subject: RE: Banks' Culture Was: Race to the Bottom RobertS wrote: Rob said: In heavily toward a Libertarian origin for the Culture. I don't see how a Socialist movement would ever give up power and control. Since when did the Minds give up power and control? Or are you talking about those insignificant humanoids they humour? Of course! G I can't see socialist giving up power even to a machine. Well, they don't have to give up the power voluntarilybut they would have been easier to talk/dupe/finesse out of power. I am curious as to why you think this. Its hard to judge since we have not seen evil libertarians in power yet. It seems to me that this would be a function of power, and not ideology. I guess my thought question here is ... If Evil Libertarians ruled the world, how hard would it be to despot this form of government? This is an important distinction, since powerful government is needed to enforce libertarian values. What makes libertarianism so damn special? Nerd From Hell Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: I think I almost died last night
Having experienced something like this a few times, I would say it was acid reflux. You were lucky in that you did not actually throw up or actually aspirate some of that acid. You probably slept wrong on the couch. You had just ate, and had a carbonated drink before it happened. Now you know what to avoid to keep it from happening again. As a side note, after a couple of times of it happening, you actually are able to identify it while you wake up, and generally do not panic. You wait the 5-20 seconds until your body stops refluxing , you take a couple of breaths, then you are OK. Then you adjust your pillow and go back to sleep. It only happens whenever I am asleep on my stomach. Nerd From Hell -Original Message- From: Robert Seeberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: I think I almost died last night Since I've been posting during the day, I'm sure most of you guessed that I'm not at work today. Something very unusual and frightening happened to me last night. I had fallen asleep in the living room last night after a snack and a coke. About 90 minutes I suddenly woke with my body in a panic. My mind was calm enough, but my body was kinda freaking out. I couldn't breath. Actually I could exhale just fine, but inhaling was traumatic. I had to use all the force I could muster just to inhale a lungfull of air and it took 5 - 10 seconds to get my lungs filled. It was as if my windpipe closed up whenever I tried to inhale. At first, I wondered if I had collapsed a lung. I've had severe pneumonia and it was *that* difficult to breathe, but there was no sensation of my lungs being filled with fluid. I felt no sensation or pressure in my trachea or esophagus. I had no clue at this point what was wrong. Somehow I managed to stand up and made my way to the bedroom to wake up my wife. I may have taken 2 breaths at this point and wasn't sure I would be able to remain conscious much longer. My wife was immediately panicky. The noise I made trying to inhale was loud enough to be distinct as to what was happening. Susan asked me what was wrong. All I could do was shake my head as I exhaled. She asked If I was OK. I shook my head again during an exhale. Actually she must have asked me if I was OK 3 times. She asks if I want her to call 911. By this time I was on my 6th or 7th breath and I could feel whatever it was starting to slack off, so I shook my head again and concentrated on breathing slowly and remaining calm. After a few minutes my breathing was more or less normal, but I felt traumatized. In any case 911 was not called and I didn't go to a hospital. But I did have the holy crap scared out of me. I have only a couple of guesses as to what was going on. I could taste chocolate and stomach acid in my mouth and figure that maybe my body was trying to keep me from inhaling the contents of my stomach. Or it could be some sort of acid reflux. Then again, I might be suffering from some form of sleep apnea, in which case I need to make an appointment. I've never had anything like this happen before. xponent Deaths Prey Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Stirling engine queries
I think it was the babylonians who first used base 60, which is how we got hours, minutes and seconds, as well as the 360 points on a compass. Its worked pretty well so far. I found this on a web site as a possible reason for base 60. Here is one way that it could have happened. One can count up to 60 using your two hands. On your left hand there are three parts on each of four fingers (excluding the thumb). The parts are divided from each other by the joints in the fingers. Now one can count up to 60 by pointing at one of the twelve parts of the fingers of the left hand with one of the five fingers of the right hand. This gives a way of finger counting up to 60 rather than to 10. Anyone convinced? Nerd From Hell -Original Message- From: Nick Lidster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:15 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Stirling engine queries Also, if you look at the tips of your fingers and those knuckles closest to the tips, you will see 12 of them on one hand -- so it is Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l yeh im probley stupid or forgot how to count.. but can someone please count to 12 using the tips and top knuckels of one hand, 'cause i only get 10. I can see how one can do it, exclude teh thumb and the base knuckles, use the tips and the top 2 knuckles of each finger, again rembering to exclude the thumb. So as far as my base 10 counting skills go, it is impossible to get 12 using 5 fingers, and 2 points of refrence. Nick I cant count Lidster ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: L3 Bitter Mellons, Gin and Tonic, and a an Un- reasonable vie w.
I have not seen any mention of the North's concern about the White Slave. Since slavery was defined as a racial thing, and people born to slaves inherited being a slave, the possiblity existed of a slave being born that was mostly white, but a slave since their mother was a slave. It would only take about four generations for a white slave to emerge. It was the possibility of white slaves that was used as propaganda to abolish slavery, so that even if a Northerner felt that blacks should be slaves (racial inheritance), they could not intellectually support slavery if there was the possibility that a white person could be born a slave. Ref: http://scholarspublishing.com/ Tenzer explains that in the antebellum South, the children of slave mothers were slaves from the moment of birth. Even though miscegenation lightened skin color, virtually white slave children were still considered mulattoes and remained slaves nonetheless, even after an endless number of generations went by and all discernible Negroid traits were long gone. A good example is a case he reports in which a slave woman who was one sixty-fourth black was on the auction block. One of her great-great-great-great grandparents was black. Not all slaves in the South were black, and this phenomenon of white slaves, whites with a distant black ancestor, was to have unexpected political consequences. A large number of white slaves escaped to the Northern states hoping to pass into free white society, and slave catchers went North looking for them. This posed a direct threat to white people living in the North because under the provisions of the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850, runaway slaves could be reclaimed without due process, which in effect allowed for free whites to be mistakenly seized. Any thoughts on this? The claim on this web site is that this is the real reason for the civil war. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Race to the Bottom
snip I started learning COBOL two years ago. The company bemoans the fact that no college offers COBOL programming Many outside contractors have come in an tried to prove that their software could do the job faster and all have failed. Maybe the difference is the database interface. Most of the work is just getting and storing a record. But the big programs work on all the records; sorting and changing and other things. We are not about to move away from big Iron yet. Our issue is that as capacity is added to the frames, it quickly gets used up. We have no spare cycles even though we have doubled processing in the last year. There are still 20 Mainframe programmers on staff. What is outsourced is usually sustaining work. The analysis is done here. It's not going away, in fact I know a few places switching back because it works better. (Don't ask who, it's internal knowledge.) Our latest version is OO, but no one has worked with it yet. We have host interfaced programs and web applications all running from COBOL. We have had that for years. In fact, I just wrote a MS script that passes delimited text to one of these interfaces to a MF trans to order parts. Our web based Warranty system talks to IMS in the back. Truck Sales Orders and changes do as well. Green screen use is now only for processing small orders or for looking up small bits of info. Everything else is automated into the web-based back end into IMS. How are you defining a large mainframe program? The major project this year will be re-writing a system that handles billions of dollars now; designing it to handle trillions. There will be many small and large programs; a few very large ones; each written by one person. This is how Mainframe development is done. It is difficult to do on other platforms. SNIP I am missing something. What would a programmer who doesn't analyze do? I know a few programs that are same code/different system but most involve thinking. Again, the old style MF programmer did it all in the past. Specialization has taken this away. Maybe that's my difference. I love my job. I'll do anything. I spent 11 years fixing TVs, being an electrician, doing mechanical maintenance. I never want to turn a wrench again. I had a dream after I started, standing in a factory being welcomed to my new job. I felt like crying, I wanted to call my boss and find out what happened. Alas, another fellow blue-collar IT worker... That doesn't mean I'm social. I treat this as a job. I don't need to know your kids names to work with you. Kevin T. - VRWC I had a point. Oh yeah: COBOL RuLZ! Java drolz! (No idea what you work with). ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Race to the Bottom
-Original Message- From: Jan Coffey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:52 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:36 AM 3/2/2004, you wrote: Half of our development staff is Indian. I turn to them to tell me the technology can do what I want it to do. They are the subject matter experts to programming. The American developers are OK, but the Indians really get it, and they really enjoy the work. They are also the most friendly. The American developers here are probably the most unsocial people in IT. They have not make the transcendental shift to socially connect to the business that supports their lifestyle. It is these people that complain that wages are diminishing, that there is too much foreign competition, and how everyone outside of their little world are idiots who don't get technology. I have news for them. The Ivory Tower they live in is falling. Nerd From Hell I would say that you don't get it. I have had a number of experiences with outsourcing and all of them have been the same. Let me clarify my position on Indian programmers. I was referring to the Indian programmers here on staff. Some of the friendliest guys here - Always say hi to me in the elevator. They love to do analysis. They would not be here if they could not compete head to head against U.S. programmers. In India, being paid to be a programmer is easy do to, but everyone needs to do the time to learn the ropes, here or abroad. I have seen project after project canceled, not because the software could not be written, but because the people writing the software were not capable, were not mature enough to succeed. Even when the designs were sound, the ability to execute on those designs...the ability to even understand those designs was minimal. Just look at the ratio of failures that Infosys has had, and they are India's top firm. I did mention earlier that a local company here did contract a Indian firm to do a project, analysis and all, and it failed horribly. I agree with you here. Outsourcing is still difficult to do successfully, and I can't remember anyone having good success with it. It still does not change the fact that Managers will at least try to sell out the American worker for a few bucks. The fool is right about that. It does not mean that it will be successful. It also does not mean that Managers should not try. The Fool is against letting market forces re-educate IT management about the value of American programming. It is a cry to say, We are afraid that we might lose, so let's whack them off at the knees before they have a chance to show their mettle. I am in favor of outsourcing because I think it will light a fire under the Lazy American Programmers . We withstood the Dotcom fallout, we can withstand this as well. I say, allow criticism to be the referee in this issue. SNIP Even if this were not the case, even if we were comparing like abilities (which WILL eventually be the case, and faster than you might think), even then, we are talking about flooding a market, we are talking about undercutting. If for instance we were talking about Diamonds, or Gold, or anything, this would not be acceptable. Free market does not mean that someone can artificially change the value of something by flooding the market with that product. You make a good segue for me to mention again that the value is very artificial. When Indian firms contract out to China for work, there is something that will break. Perhaps that will happen when China decides to honestly valuate its money. The American developers here are probably the most unsocial people in IT. This may be the case, but I do not believe you are correct when you say unsocial, maybe just social in a different way than many who studied Business instead of Computer Science. But do you believe that these people should not be able to make a good living? Is it your opinion that only ~Social~ people should be allowed into the middle, or upper middle class? It's true, many of the Computer Scientists I know who grew up in the US, and who enjoy Software Engineering, have an alternative social ability. Does that mean that they should only be allowed to work for McDonalds wages? You must mean McDonalds management wages. Top range is about 45,000 /year. I see a lot of job posting for developers at this rate. Clearly rates have gone down for developers, unless you know Oracle, Peoplesoft or SAP. This group of people have found a carrier that affords them the ability to participate in the American Dream, but form the sound of it, you would have them all unemployed, and their jobs all sent over seas to people who will treat you as if you are their master, and work for slave wages. You made the strong point that failures occur when these
RE: Race to the Bottom
I have to side against the Fool in this case. His point was that his job was threatened by the outsourcing scourge. I work in IT, and I do not see the threat. But then I am an analyst and not principally a programmer. It is the heads down programmers, web developers, and phone support that is being threatened by outsourcing. It is clear that programming is difficult, but its rather technical work (like fabrication or assembly), meaning that large scale innovation is no longer driven by the programmers. It is the architects and analysts that provide the innovation. What has to happen is these same programmers need to shift their careers to analysis. No off-shore worker can provide business requirements or delve deep into legacy systems to solve business problems. The focus of IT is business. This fundamental belief is lost with those who are bothered by outsourcing. The days are gone of the Mainframe programmer/analyst, who did it all with respect to creating mainframe apps. No one person can write a large program any more. The technology is too sophisticated, and the business requirements are too massive for one person. The programming has become the easy part of the technical solution. It's the analysis of determining the business behind the bits that's important. From a personal level, Freightliner now out sources mainframe legacy development. This is largely because there are so few mainframe programmers left who will do legacy sustaining work. The Off-shore outsourcing is now our only good source of talent who can dedicate careers to these legacy systems. No American worker would waste career time learning COBOL, when is considered such a career limiting effort. The few mainframe programmers left, none of which are under the age of 50, have converted their skills to analysis. They are providing their subject matter expertise to provide guidance for development. They bring their knowledge of the BUSINESS to the table. It is not for their COBOL skills. Its for things like understanding when you copy a parts list from one database to another, you are legally obliged to bring over the costing information with that data. Failure to do so would break financial laws. Nothing in COBOL demands this, which is why these Americans are needed for the job. No Off-shore developer could provide this. Another example from Portland. A successful Video rental company recently tried to outsource all of the elements of a project, including the analysis. The Indian company contracted to do so realized that they could not do analysis from a continent away. So they shipped a bunch of analysts from India to Portland to do the work. Do I need to mention that this multi-million project quickly went belly up? And what about those little manuals that come with most Asian computer components. Ever read one that did not have some significant English spelling or syntax error? We are the Masters of English. It is this mastery that will keep us on top. And about those outsourcing companies... Rumor has it that the Indians are now not satisfied with the rates being offered by American companies for the work, so they are now doing offshore outsourcing to countries like Russia and Viet Nam. This tells me that the American programmer is going the way of the punch card operator, and that things will shift world-wide. Working with a large multi-national Fortune 500 company, I have seen how subject matter expertise now gets the high wages. We are importing $300/hr analysts to convert our parts systems to the new global parts management system for the largest automobile company in the world. Half of this expertise comes from Europe. The other half from the American side. Both are needed, because Europeans don't get IT very well, but Europeans know how to organize, categorize, and how to work with the rest of the world. You can't buy that here in America. Ask two American developers how to do a task, and they will both fight about the best way to do the task. To Europeans, tasks are viewed much differently. They play well together. So let this work go to the Offshore people. I can get ten times the work done for programs I design for the same cost of doing the work here. This makes the company better, and because of that the bonuses are bigger. Its not the American Corporate Pig-Dog that is greedy, its people like me. Outsourcing makes me look good. I am an analyst who programs, not a programmer that does analysis. This is the difference. I only hope that the development community sees this as well. I have made the shift, and any programmer can use his oversized brain to cope, as well. Half of our development staff is Indian. I turn to them to tell me the technology can do what I want it to do. They are the subject matter experts to programming. The American developers are OK, but the Indians really get it, and they really enjoy the work. They are also the most friendly. The American developers here are probably the most
RE: Race to the Bottom
lazy lifestyle. I do hope they see the writing on the wall. Its time to move on. I'll have to disagree with you on this, Chad, and have some data to back it up. My wife works in reservations for Continental Airlines. Their market niche is being as good as possible in customer service/satisfaction. They have won numerous awards for this; and its a big part of their advertising campaign. Training in sales/customer service from other large Fortune 100 companies has been outsourced to them; and they've even outsourced sales/customer service from their agents to other large companies. I certainly agree with you about this, and you help make my point. Customer support is about supporting the business. It's the technical industry that has not caught on that just because you can outsource technical support offshore you should. In the case you describe above, the customer support is not technology based. The focus is not how well the reservationists knows the reservation system, its how well they socialize. They are not called the Technical Support Staff but Customer Service representatives. I am sure that you have pretty much given up on getting good phone technical support from software and hardware you buy. You probably go to the U.S. Sales rep directly to get satisfaction. The Sales rep brings together his team of experts to solve your problem. This is about analysis, not technical savvy. As I preach here at work, you can teach anybody anything about computers, but you can't teach them to not be assholes... This is key when hiring computer people. Tech support has been marginalized for solving only the easiest, most common and least time consuming problems related to a computer product. In many cases, it is just window dressing that has no practical value. This is why it is moving overseas. It's a token gesture for the desperate. Not to bash Microsoft, but the free support line is a direct line to East Asia. If you want real support and help, you buy Premier support. This is provided by the top analysts in the company. These analysts travel the world rescuing companies from IT disasters. There is a lurker on this list who can speak in this regard, if he/she dares. Their VP told the reservations agents that they would not outsource offshore because of the need for customer satisfaction. They further stated that other companies are starting to retreat from outsourcing customer service. Delta had a reservations center in India, which they closed for this reason. One of the smaller rental car companies tried this, and it hurt sales, so they stopped it. Good, I hate talking to people with native accents over the phone. It really sucks. The worst conference call I participated in occurred over 8 time zones, 3 continents, with Cockney, American, Indian and Asian native accents all mixing together... Pretty much all you could understand was Wot? or Wut? or Ut? depending on the accent. Total Disaster - but I digress. Airlines might be in a different position than others because of their benefits. My wife, for example, works half time at Continental and is a psychotherapist with a MSW. She works for $12/hour more for the health insurance and fight benefits than for the net cash. There are a number of other folks, most of the part timers I think, who are in somewhat similar circumstances. This appears to be a pretty good wage for customer support. It is probably Union controlled contracts that get them this wage. It may be artificial to the rest of America. Having traveled a decent bit internationally, I'd argue that customer service is more of a priority in the US than anywhere I've been in Europe. Its hard to say, it could be that only Americans can really provide the socialization that prevents alienation - subtle messages that tell you you are talking to a fellow American. The Canadians are pretty good at it until they use certain word that clue you into their Canuck Heritage You can't buy this overseas, now or ever... NFH Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Race to the Bottom
Bryon, These are great questions! -Original Message- From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Race to the Bottom From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have to side against the Fool in this case. His point was that his job was threatened by the outsourcing scourge. I work in IT, and I do not see the threat. But then I am an analyst and not principally a programmer. It is the I don't know any good solutions, but I am concerned about the problem. I am too for that matter - but for different reasons. heads down programmers, web developers, and phone support that is being threatened by outsourcing. It is clear that programming is difficult, but its rather technical work (like fabrication or assembly), meaning that large scale innovation is no Most factory workers do not have a 4 year college degree or need one to do their job. I do not as well, nor do many of the people I work with. I did my time working the phones, desktop support, system administration, etc. I am a blue-collar High tech worker. My college background was a bit of medical training. Any way, for your industry, maybe you are correct, but not all programming is like that, and it's not just the rote technician stuff that's getting transferred offshore: Example: A few years back, I was offered a software job at GE Medical Systems out near Milwaukee. This division designs/builds stuff like MRI and CAT scan equipment. They had a split set up, using programmers in India for some of the system coding, along with some programmers in Milwaukee. I can assure you that though the software architecture was chiefly done in the US, the work the Indian programmers were doing was not by any means fabrication/assembly work, it was real engineering work. I am sure of that. They are pretty good at it. However, the Specs for the equipment came from the U.S. The invisioning was on this side of the pond. The solution is always tough but academic. longer driven by the programmers. It is the architects and analysts that provide the innovation. What has to happen is these same programmers need to shift their careers to analysis. Easy to say, but how many positions are available for analysts and architects, versus how many programmer jobs are open to being displaced? I'm guessing there's a 1:10 to 1:20 ratio of analysts/architects to programmers. I can only speak for what I know. At Freightliner, There is a 50/50 ration between Analysts and programmers. However, both groups together only represent about 20% of the organization. Operational support surpasses the consultative support side. Developers are a small minority of the IT workers and the analysts are matched evenly. The rest of the programming is outsourced, but this is only about 10% of the total work performed by IT. In our business, Analysis is the bottleneck. We have money to spend on development, but we can't get the analysis done fast enough. We are having a hard time finding good analysts. What do you suggest the other 9-19 programmers do? Are the jobs lost overseas being replaced at all by alternate, equivalent-quality jobs? If not, who'd going to be able to buy all those cheap DVD players and TV's? Those jobs represent infrastructure, someone needs to sell them software, hardware and telecommunications. That comes from the U.S. Only the labor is cheap. They pay the same as the U.S. for the infrastructure. That infrastructure comes from the U.S. No off-shore worker can provide business requirements or delve deep into legacy systems to solve business problems. The focus of IT is business. This fundamental belief is lost with those who are bothered by outsourcing. The days are gone of the Mainframe programmer/analyst, who did it all with respect to creating mainframe apps. No one person can write a large program any more. The technology is too sophisticated, and the business requirements are too massive for one person. The programming has become the easy part of the technical solution. It's the analysis of determining the business behind the bits that's important. So your vision is companies consisting of small groups of management and lead analysts/architects, while all the actual body of technical work is done offshore? It's not my vision. I am only adapting to the changing tide. Its not so much the technical work as much as it is the time intensive work. Development is hard, but tangable. Requirements translates into solutions. Solutions take time. As I said before, we are struggling to find developers with legacy knowledge. We are forced to look elsewhere because the workforce is not there. And then when the offshore developers learn the business better, and canned software packages simplify the analysis tasks, the analyst jobs can be moved offshore,
RE: A few new words of which this list is in need
Well, you're half right (2/3). Again, as long as we are being honest, the posts of yours that I have read have been a waste of my time. Not surprising you and Rob would enjoy each other's babble. Although it is disappointing that you make so little effort to discern sense from nonsense before posting your tripe, and that you draw conclusions from such a short baseline. Hey, I thought you were done with this thread long ago... Why are you still here? BTW Why are you complaining about posts that waste your time, when you spend time responding to them..? Get off this thread already... We are discussing this with ourselves Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Tyranny
Are you talking about this part of the 14th Amendment? nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; Exactly WHO is being deprived of anything by San Francisco performing gay marriages? I don't see how this applies. I agree. It is the role of the court here to act as the third part of the checks and balances built into Government. The judges are not reacting to GWB's outright insult he has cast at the judges who are in position on this issue. As far as I can see, everything is working like it should. Here he states that Activist Judges are bad for America, yet he applauds those Activists that oppose him, yet have no real power for change. So really, in his mind, activism is OK only if it does not work - another way to say , Let them eat Cake. After more than two centuries of American jurisprudence, and millennia of human experience, a few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization. Their actions have created confusion on an issue that requires clarity. - GWB 2/24/2004 But what civilization is he talking about? It must be Western civilization, because other civilizations, even today support, and make it legally possible to participate in other forms of marriage - same sex, Polygamy, etc. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Tyranny
-Original Message- From: Gautam Mukunda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 3:22 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Tyranny --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But what civilization is he talking about? It must be Western civilization, because other civilizations, even today support, and make it legally possible to participate in other forms of marriage - same sex, Polygamy, etc. Nerd From Hell 1. What is wrong with Western civilization? We are members of it. It's a lot better than the alternatives. Oh, there is nothing with Western Civilization. I happen to like it a lot. 2. What other culture allows same sex marriage? I'm genuinely curious, not making a rhetorical point. As far as I can track down so far, there are no third world countries that support gay marriage except for Argentina. Asia has a long way to go... There is a lot of misinformation about the subject, and it is even more difficult to track down when doing this at work. However, I did find some references to a few countries. However, overwhelmingly, nearly all cultures, religions and countries do NOT support gay marriages or gay relationships. There are a lot of references to the past, where it seemed as though it was more prevalent and was perhaps better tolerated by some cultures. Western civilization is, so far as I can tell, almost uniquely tolerant of homosexuality (as with most other things). http://marriagelaw.cua.edu/religion.htm has good data on the percentages of the world that seem to tolerate legal gay marriage. It does support your suggestion that Western civilization (really the U.S.)is more tolerant. I may be able track down some third world cultures that do support homosexual marriages. My point in my response is the support of alternative marriages like polygamy is prevalent in non-western civilizations, but illegal in the Western World. There is no one definition of Marriage. While one can say there are strong commonalities, the only one I can see, is that is is hetrosexual in nature (with the exception of allowable gay marriage in a few countries). This does not exclude polygamy, which is prevalent in non-western cultures, but now our own. My issue with the President is how he presents the point that marriage is between one man and one woman, and that civilization demands this. I argue that this is not the case world wide, and can only be said western cultures. He's either mean or ignorant on this point. Hey, if homo's can marry, why can't I have 2 wives! Its closer to Bush's definition than gay marriage! Nerd From Hell = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Bitter Mellons, Gin and Tonic, and a an Un- reasonable view.
Nah, one post cannot smother a reasonable discussion. The fact of the matter is that you have not been successful in persuading people to accept some of your main premises. Godwin's Law = 1 a couple of threads ago.. This thread's history... It can't be smothered because its already dead, its NOT a reasonable discussion. Thus, there is no discussion on how and why those premises are true. Indeed, your postualtes require the dismissal of a large body of information; which makes them emperically suspect. You are correct here... See Benford's Law of Controversy Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. Game Over Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: BRin-L - are we average? (was RE: Federal Marriage [sic] Amen dment)
-Original Message- From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 10:44 AM To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' Subject: RE: BRin-L - are we average? (was RE: Federal Marriage [sic] Amendment) At 01:28 AM 2/22/04, Mike Lee wrote: Nerd from Hell confessed: If I can get one for being a pure Left-handed person... Any other lefties out there? No, there aren't. You're the last one. Thank God. And as soon as we hunt him down and kill him, the list will be free of his sinister influence . . . They Don't Call It Right For Nothing Maru How adroitly gauche! NFH -- Ronn! ;-P ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: the Hate Amendment compared to Gov't actions Against Polygamy
-Original Message- From: Jan Coffey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 1:57 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: the Hate Amendment compared to Gov't actions Against Polygamy I'm not religious, (not morman) and I know of many triples who live very happily. I don't know of many quads who last long, they usualy end up in smaller groups, but 3 does seem to be the magic number for many. I take issue with the assumption that this is always sexist. What about 2 males and one female? Is that sexist against men? After all when it works it is usualy an equal kind of love in all directions. (That means at least 2 are bi.) But I don't think that the mormans are this way. I have meet some people in a polig' arraingement of multiple men and women... While visiting their home, a young boy answered the door. I asked, Can I speak with your dad?, the boy replied Which one? These situations are allways one man and many women, and the women generaly do not have a kind of life-bond love for eachother. So that is where the sexism comes in, but that doesn't mean that all relationships envolving to women and one man are structured that way. It is ammazing to me that in a country claiming to be free that these types of conversations even still happen. Who or who-all, one decides to fall in love with, raise a family with, bond for life with, should be absolutly no concern of the state. Now I agree, everyone has their limit of understanding. I could not see a marriage of 12 as having anything to do with love and bonding, and life commitment. 12 is excessive for polig's. A man usually has up to 6 wives, adding one per generation (at 20, 40, 60, 80, and so on) Multiply this, by say, an average of 6 children per wife, it adds up. Note that this man would have multigenerational children. It makes for a very flat Geneological tree. Maybe a residency scam... But who is to make the decision? I wouldn't know how to look at an arangment of more than 4 and understand if their was truely love and bonding there. And I am mearly a sympathetic person in a 2 person bond. How would your average social worker be able to look at a relationship of more than 2 people and know whether or not it was real? Again, if a man at 60 has 3 wives, only one is producing children (generally). There is a heirarchy between the wives, formulated by the serialized basis for plural marriage. Generally, it is frowned upon for a man to sleep with more than one wife at a time (a criminal offense in some parts of Utah - especially if one of the wives is underage.) There are many examples of parallelized plural marriages within Arab communities. This is widely accepted in many arabic countries. Each wife is entitled to IDENTICALLY what the other wifes are entitled to (economically, at least). I am sure that there would be many arabic men that would take offense to your statement. Polygamy is really only found unacceptable within Western culture. So, simple, dont base residency, or any other problematic concern on life bonding. Where does that leave Gay marriage? I think your point is made, that we humans do form bonds in other fashions other than the typical Man/Woman arraingement. It is unfair to say polygamy is acceptable, but gay marriage is not. Nerd From Hell Or even hetero mariage? --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/001538.shtml#001538 ... The Historical Assault on Mormons: But the attacks on polygamy should evoke a more historical American shudder that should make conservatives think twice before equating their intolerance of gay marriage with intolerance for polygamy. ... A Slippery Slope: So in order to preserve marriage as that of one man with one woman, the US government systematically led a criminal and economic assault on a religion and essentially at a point of a gun, forced them to recant a core part of their religious beliefs. ... - I Pledge Impertinence to the Flag-Waving of the Unindicted Co-Conspirators of America and to the Republicans for which I can't stand one Abomination, Underhanded Fraud Indefensible with Liberty and Justice Forget it. -Life in Hell (Matt Groening) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Introducing Fenris
You could make a shorter catagory that includes both religion and politics called Evil:. I like Totally Gay: myself It makes me giggle! I think we can work on entitling the title of our email messages with a meaningful pre-title... But to get the group to standardize Never! It took years to get people to stop using HTML... We are still very insensitive with our reckless disregard for the metric system Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Totally Gay: RE: BRin-L - are we average? (was RE: Federal Marrai ge [sic] Amendment)
Are we as a population representative in terms of sexuality distribution? Does Brin-L have any openly GLBT members (excepting myself, of course)? Na... I expect we are less representative that the general populace. Frankly, Sci-fi is a bit too Gay, so to speak, for the cool hipster metrosexual types... Now if I ask what GLBT stands for, does that make me curious bi? How many chili peppers did I win for this message! Nerd From Hell -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Best Superbowl Ever! wasRE: Janet Jackson s Right Breast Provoke s Outrage
No one has seemed to comment about how this was the best super bowl ever. You got Premium Football, Superbowl commercials, MTV obnoxiousness, some hip-hoppsta' showing off their custom SUV's (their rides), and a bit of celebrity TA All in one show! I mean...Come on! What more could a guy want on TV! It was the best ever!!! (oh yeah.. The game was good too!) Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Energy Independence
Questions: 1) What are the costs and benefits of energy taxation as a means to reduce demand for strategic independence? The government would get more revenue. I can't believe it would do much, other than inhibit economic growth artificially. I don't see a big backlash to suv's costing so much in gas. People don't seem to mind dropping $50 a fillup. What's another $5 (from a 10% tax, which would never be tolerated). It would hurt the trucking industry at a time where manufacturing is down, and costs are up, expecially with the cost of federal safety and environmental regulations that get passed on to the shipping industry. Now there is in place a tax CREDIT for the development of renewable power plants (10%). This made renewable sources able to compete against coal, gas, and oil plants for electricity production in terms of costs and profit. This tax credit expired last month... A failure of the Bush administration to get a energy policy passed. 2) Is there any hope that research would produce a substitute for petroleum and natural gas based alternatives? (My suspicion is that this is where it falls down, that energy experts [read oil economists and executives] believe that natural gas and crude are the only viable energy sources. We have had this discussion before. The primary problem is our voracious need for energy. Oil is the easiest, cheapest way to get energy. Renewable sources only provide about 6.7% of the energy we need. This is growing at .1 % per year. At that rate, it will take a long time before renewables are dominant. From http://physics.syr.edu/courses/modules/ENERGY/ENERGY_POLICY/tables.html Energy Content of Fuels (in Joules) Energy Unit Joules Equivalent (S.I.) pound of coal1.6 x 10^7 pound of gasoline2.2 x 10^7 pound of oil 2.4 x 10^7 Pound of Uranium-235 3.7 x 10^13 Fuel Requirements for a 1000-MWe Power Plant (2.4 10^11 Btu/day energy input) Coal: 9000 tons/day of 1 unit train load (100 90 - ton cars/day) Oil: 40,000 bbl/day or 1 tanker per week (note: bbl means barrels) Natural Gas: 2.4 l0^8 SCF/day Uranium (as 235U): 3 kg/day Note: 1000 MWe utility, at 60% load factor, generates 5.3109 kwh/year, enough for a city of about 1 million people in the U.S.A. (Note: MWE is an abbreviation for megawatts-electrical output) 2a) What about coal gas coversion? See chart above: No process to convert coal to gas will increase the power output. You may get a more efficient conversion if the coal was in gasous form, but you have to spend energy to do so. Its biggest benefit is environmental, not economic or political. There are also issues with little infrastructure to create, distribute and handle new synthetic fuels, compared to gasoline. Coal Gas is being pursued primarily because domestic production of oil is down, combined with world production dwindling, may result in shortages in the near future. It is looked upon as a reactive measure to provide energy in the case where there is not enough oil. Maybe in a couple of decades BTW... Fusion experts now confidently state that with sufficent funding, they can have a fusion powerplant providing electricity to the powergrid in 35 years (sigh) Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: South Park - all new levels of wrongness.
-Original Message- From: Gary Nunn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:59 PM To: Brin Mail List Subject: South Park - all new levels of wrongness. I don't watch South Park very often, but every time I do, they seem to reach all new levels of wrongness. The episode where Santa was taken captive in Iraq and they recruited Jesus to help save him in a commando raid was so over the top, I was speechless. You must not watch South Park very often. The creators are doing their job by not discriminating who they offend. If you are not offended, you aren't paying attention ... There are way too many things to comment about with regard to the offensiveness of South Park. Being offensive is funny. Being wrong is funny - Period. However, if you were to ask, my favorite episode is called All About the Mormons. Nerd From Hell From South Park Episode 11 4th season: (Long Pan to Hell. The entrance. All the world's recently departed are standing around the entrance to hell. Marcie's Dad appears out of thin air.) Marcie's Dad: Where...where am I?! New Hellion #1: WHERE ARE WE?! New Hellion #2: Oh, my God! I've gone to Hell! New Hellion #3: (Italian Woman) WAZZAPANING?! New Hellion #4: AH! Hell Director: (on a stage near the entrance. on a microphone.) Hello, new-commers! Welcome! Can everybody hear me?! Hello! (taps his mic.) Can everybo...okay! Uh, I'm the Hell Director! Uh, It looks like we have about eight-thousand, six-hundred, and fifteen of you newbees today, and for those of you who were a little confused, uh, you ARE dead and this is Hell! So, abandon all hope and, uh, yadayadayada! Uh, we're now going to start the orientation process which will last about... New Hellion #5: Hey, wait a minute! I shouldn't be here! I was a totally strict and devout Protestant! I thought we went to Heaven! Hell Director: Yes, well, I'm afraid you were wrong! New Hellion #6: I was a practicing Jehova's Witness! Hell Director: Uh, you picked the wrong religion as well! New Hellion #7: Well, who was right?! Who gets into Heaven?! Hell Director: I'm afraid it was the Mormons! Yes! The Mormons were the correct answer! New Hellions: AWW! Hell Director: So now, I'd like to quickly introduce your new ruler and master for eternity, Satan! (Satan appears out of a burst of flame.) Satan: ERRRAAH! New Hellions: H! Gary ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Odds of getting to the Moon and Mars
Want the Odds? Put your money where your mouth is.. Bookies offer heavy odds against Mars landing Thu Jan 15, 9:55 AM ET LONDON (Reuters) - If U.S. President George W. Bush (news - web sites) is serious about sending a man to Mars, he can put his money where his mouth is and win a fortune. Bookmakers William Hill said on Thursday they were offering 50/1 odds against a man walking on Mars by December 31, 2030. Bush announced plans on Wednesday to send humans back to the moon as early as 2015 and eventually to Mars. The bookies are also sceptical that humans will soon return to the moon -- they are taking bets at 10/1 against anyone reaching the moon before December 31, 2015. But the oddsmakers have underestimated space exploration before, to their cost. In 1969, when Neil Armstrong became the first man on the moon, Hill's paid out 10,000 pounds to punter David Threlfall, who had bet 10 pounds at odds of 1000/1 in the early 1960s that nobody would reach the moon before the end of the decade. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
Snip _That's_ what's inspiring about it. Who cares if its inspiring? Look I was raised to be a liberal. I feel that we should fund medicaide and take care of poor sick folk. (Heck, I am poor with chronic illnesses and would *benefit* from socialized medicine.) I feel that we should fund primary and secondary education till public schools can flush money down toilets. I feel that we should provide adequate housing for everyone. I feel ... well you get the picture. I THINK all of this would be bad public policy. When the administration announces grand plans for manned space programs i FEEL proud, excited, and--yes--even inspired. And that feeling immediately makes me suspicious. Is this fiscally responsible? Is it rational? I think, no, I *KNOW* that basing public policy on emotion IS irresponsible -- unpatriotic. Whoa there... Isn't socialized medicine, funding for public education, housing programs, etc, etc, mostly emotional public policy? FEED THE STARVING CHILDREN! BUILD SCHOOLS NOT BOMBS! HOUSE THE HOMELESS! HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! BUY AMERICAN! ABORTION IS MURDER! I don't see many bumper stickers out there saying NASA RULES! or SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL ASTRONAUT . Don't the liberals spend most of their time trying to convince the conservatives that these emotional-based policies are financially sound - Education builds wealth, equality in healthcare for all costs less, Housing for the poor gets people out of poverty, Etc, Etc... You turned the table around here and said that Space research provides no tangible ROI? Now I feel immediately suspicious! In brute, lowest common denominatior terms what is in this gold-plated fools' errand for me? When Isabella sent Columbus to look for a route to the Indies she wasn't investing in exploration. Exploration was a nice side effect. Isabella's primary motivation was making a LOT OF MONEY! If we build a big new booster what will be the tangible return on investment? Thousands of dollars for every per pound we lift into space... This is very tangible. The intangible parts are the side benefits that occur when the technology leaks out into the private sector. I find it hard to think we are on the negative side of the equation here. Afterall, we have Tang because of Apollo... ;-) What about the crew vehicle? The moon colony? How the @#$% do you plan to get tangible ROI from a manned mission to Mars? If you do get ROI will it make sense in terms of opportunity cost. We have underfunded schools, biomedical research, and ageing population and military obligations we need to see to, remember. Money or national security only please. I believe that as a citizen I have a *responsibility* to resist temptation and make decisisons as a pure Philistine. That's not very nice. Are you saying anyone who supports space travel is, as the definition states, philistine-like? From dictionary.com Phil*is*tine 1. A member of an Aegean people who settled ancient Philistia around the 12th century B.C. 2a. A smug, ignorant, especially middle-class person who is regarded as being indifferent or antagonistic to artistic and cultural values. 2b .One who lacks knowledge in a specific area. As a citizen I dont care a whit about pure science, the human quest, or feel-good programs. Hey... Your thing is public charity to help the poor and downtrodden, my thing may be the space program. I think your claim on how government money should be spent is as important as my claim. In fact, our republic supports this position. But for you to say I have no claim, based upon my philistine tendencies, is wrong, judgemental, and overly rightous. Now before you start bombing me with reasons I should feel the way you do, don't. I have my reasons for supporting the space program, as emotional as they may be, and you have your reasons for supporting your interests. I may even feel the same way you do about the many social programs... That's not my point. John McGinnis said this: We are in a prisoner's dilemma: we would all be better off with a smaller government, but it would be irrational for any group to surrender the money or regulatory advantages it gets from the state without a guarantee that all other groups will, too. I'll give up on the space program when you give up the social programs Philistine From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.
OK, it does not quite fit, but perhaps what he got was there, with there being a noun? This guy went into the forest one day. Once there, he got there, but he couldn't get there, so he left it there and then brought there back home. Nerd From Hell -Original Message- From: Travis Edmunds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 10:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun. Lets play a little game. I'll start things off by throwing a riddle on the table. The first person to correctly answer the riddle has the privilege of posting a riddle of their own. This guy went into the forest one day. Once there he got it, but he couldn't get it. So he left it there and brought it back home. What did he get? _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photospgmarket=en-caRU=ht tp%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgm arket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
-Original Message- From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:58 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... At 11:51 AM 12/22/03, Horn, John wrote: It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. Well, what do you expect when he only gets to preach for real on the fourth Sunday of every month, and then only on a topic that's assigned to him, and that only for about twenty minutes? You mean Fast Sunday? Why only the last Sunday of the month? http://www.hatrack.com/research/student-papers/porschet.shtml Card has won the Hugo and Nebula awards in 1986 for Ender's Game and in 1987 for its sequel,Speaker for the Dead. To this day he is the only author to win these prestigious awards in two consecutive years. Card has lived in California, Utah, and Arizona. He served a two year mission in Brazil for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Card is a very dedicated member of the Mormon church and serves as a Sunday school teacher in his ward. And it continues on... The majority of Card's writing has an emphasis on Mormonism, whether it is talked about in his story, or whether it is just recognized by Mormon readers; it is there. In Card's Homecoming Saga (The Memory of Earth, The Call of Earth, The Ships of Earth, Earthfall, Earthborn), he tells the story of the Book of Mormon. The main character in the Alvin Maker series is obviously, to any member of the Mormon church, modeled after Joseph Smith. The family in this series (Seventh Son, Red Prophet, Prentice Alvin, Alvin Journeyman) moves away from Vermont because of bad farm land. Joseph Smith's family left Vermont for the same reason(Porschet). In Seventh Son, the main character, Alvin has a leg operation at about the same age Joseph Smith was when he had a similar leg operation. The account of this operation is recorded by Joseph's mother, Lucy Mack Smith (Smith 54). The Alvin Maker series is a combination of American history, Mormon history, and folk magic. In a personal letter that I received from Orson Scott Card regarding what influenced his writing style, vision, and genre the most, he said: ...the culture that created me was a mixture of my family, the LDS church... the public culture of America in that era (as expressed through television, radio, news, prevailing public views and issues), and the culture of Santa Clara and Mesa in particular, especially of the educational system in those two cities... I read book 1 and 2 of the Homecoming series, and came to the same conclusion - it's clearly influenced by the Book of Mormon. Nerd From behind the Zion Curtain From the collection Hymns We Would Actually Sing: Come listen to a high councilor drone, And try to stay awake, It's good he speaks just once a month, 'Cuz that's all that we can take. He's given the same talk so many times That even he is bored, If I cannot keep my eyes open I just hope I will not snore. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.
snip Initially we were thinking that the planet killer was created by the Preservers. But taking into account the relative age of the Borg, and the estimated age of the Preservers themselves, it is quite an impossibility that it was created by them. Especially when considering that the Preservers either transcended (a cliche that bothers me) or moved on to another Galaxy, OR perhaps moved on to extra-dimensional wanderings, hundreds of millions if not billions of years before the Borg even thought of those big nasty cubes. IIRC, The planet killer came from beyond this galaxy border, passing through the Great Barrier, did it not? snip Also, the planet killer seems to be somewhat of a last ditch effort, to create something so powerful as to be impervious to the Borg and just about anything else (it had a neutronium hull). One more thing about the planet killer. It wasn't a robot, and it wasn't sentient per se. Although it did have the collective consciousness of the species who created it embedded into the ship itself, it still needed someone to captain the ship so to speak. As for my original thoughts in this thread, I have made a descision. I would pick the Jem'Hadar. Too many reasons to get into here, but they far exceeded the positive attributes of the other two candidates. If we limit the selections to Star Trek aliens, I would not have made the choice of Jem' Hadar, largely because in the show, they always seemed to lose, often because of their dependency to the white (is this correct?) or they were outsmarted. In the ST realm, there was the salt-sucking doppleganger, The Horta (my favorite), Khan's legion of supermen, the Borg (of course), Data and Lor, the lizardman Kirk fought (I think it was Arena episode or something like that), and many others... Moving to the SW realm, how about a million Jedi? Heinlein's world - Starship Troopers... Of course... Harry Harrison - Any citizen from Deathworld... I'll have to break out my Barlow's Guide for some more ideas Nerd From Hell _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photospgmarket=en-caRU=ht tp%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgm arket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.
I read somewhere that Asimov had a humans-only universe to sidestep that editorial requirement. Then wrote _The Gods Themselves_ (with aliens) after JWC's death. So the robots would not be considered non-human? I would think the robots might make good soldiers, if it wasn't for that pesky Law of Robotics... But alas... Would the robots be allowed to show wrath upon unfriendly aliens? Nerd from Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.
There was a Star Trek TNG book that explained the cigar shaped planet killer in the original series, as being a sentient Borg Killer robot - a million of them would be handy Or does the initial requirements of thie thread require that a species fall within a strict carbon-based biological basis? The Borg Killer was searching for its mate. Does this count? Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: On trolling
Now, if only I could find a Portland Timbers fan on Brin-L to taunt.. ^_^ You Troll Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Six Sigma Flatulence
Not really, since the thread is sigmoid in nature. Sigmoid: an S-shaped bend in the colon near the rectum. Nerd From Hell (with a joke only Ronn could appreciate!) -Original Message- From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:40 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Six Sigma Flatulence Sounded like an (in)appropriate thread convergence . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Web Browser Question
Um. People... You didn't read what he said. He's complaining about perfectly legitimate websites which, when they finish loading, set themselves as the active window. That IS annoying, but hardly the pop ups you're thinking of. Hey wait a minute... I said it was a form of popup. It is a more recent feature of popups, where the popped up windows actually goes to the back, so it does not interfere with the parent window. The result is people are more likely to keep the popup up, unfocused. The way to do this is to bring the parent browser instance to the front, and when you are done with that window and close it, you have a residual popup left. I suppose that the definition of popup is subject to interpetation... Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
