Re: Bring on the Helvetian war!
That was an analysis by a British newspaper. On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Pat Mathews mathew...@msn.com wrote: From Deb C on the Fourth Turning forum, Economy CF thread: Many of us know there is a problem with the super-rich hiding their assets. But did you know to what extent? Revealed: Global Super-rich Has at Least $21 Trillion Hidden in Secret Tax Havens July 29, 2012 *There May Be As Much as $32 Trillion and this Does Not Count Real Estate, Yachts and Other Non-Financial Instruments * http://itsoureconomy.us/2012/07/reve...dden-in-secrethttp://itsoureconomy.us/2012/07/revealed-global-superrich-has-at-least-21-trillion-hidden-in-secret No idea how reliable the linked source is. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com -- Gary Denton Increase your vocabulary game - feed the poor: http://www.freerice.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Brin: Why we still use rockets . . .
Although I normally like Stirling Newberry this deconstruction is not one of his better blog posts. The truth seems to be between these two arguments. On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Wayne Eddy darkenf...@gmail.com wrote: The deconstruction seems more reasonable than the article to me. On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 7:44 AM, KZK evil.ke...@gmail.com wrote: Ronn! Blankenship Space stasis: What the strange persistence of rockets can teach us about innovation. - By Neal Stephenson - Slate Magazine - http://www.slate.com/id/2283469/ I just read an article that completely deconstructed that article: http://www.correntewire.com/shape_social_progress_i Which basically says the Stephenson article is Fractally Wrong: Wrong at at every level of resolution. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com -- Gary Denton Increase your vocabulary game - feed the poor: http://www.freerice.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Evony (was Re: Starting Engineer's Salaries)
I played it and burned out on it. Decided it was more a barbarian hack and slash than I wanted. Starship Commander at least prevents your planets from being taken over. Evony launched with massive Internet advertising, with many of the images stolen. On Sunday, October 24, 2010, Rceeberger rceeber...@comcast.net wrote: On 10/24/2010 4:06:59 PM, Lance A. Brown (la...@bearcircle.net) wrote: Rceeberger said the following on 10/22/2010 9:23 PM: I've been here...I read the conversations and more or less keep up. I just haven't had much worth adding recently. Mostly I spend my online time playing Evony, where I am the host of Bavaria, a top 10 alliance on SS51. We use Skype in Bavaria so I can be found there pretty much every night under Xponent. Drop by and chat sometime if any of you get a spare few. Evony? Really? I didn't think anyone actually played that game... Apparently there are quite a few playing..thousands on my server alone. xponent PrimeTime Maru rob ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com -- Gary Denton Increase your vocabulary game - feed the poor: http://www.freerice.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Jobs, not trees! (Collapse, Chapter 2)
I'll just make a brief interjection that a new study suggests that Diamond got it wrong. Easter Island forest deprivation was more likely caused by rats brought by the colonists, who also arrived much later then previously thought. The human depopulation was caused by slave traders and diseases introduced by Europeans.. It also appears that the islanders began building moai and ahu soon after reaching the island. The human population probably reached a maximum of about 3,000, perhaps a bit higher, around 1350 A.D. and remained fairly stable until the arrival of Europeans. The environmental limitations of Rapa Nui would have kept the population from growing much larger. By the time Roggeveen arrived in 1722, most of the island's trees were gone, but deforestation did not trigger societal collapse, as Diamond and others have argued. There is no reliable evidence that the island's population ever grew as large as 15,000 or more, and the actual downfall of the Rapanui resulted not from internal strife but from contact with Europeans. When Roggeveen landed on Rapa Nui's shores in 1722, a few days after Easter (hence the island's name), he took more than 100 of his men with him, and all were armed with muskets, pistols and cutlasses. Before he had advanced very far, Roggeveen heard shots from the rear of the party. He turned to find 10 or 12 islanders dead and a number of others wounded. His sailors claimed that some of the Rapanui had made threatening gestures. Whatever the provocation, the result did not bode well for the island's inhabitants. Newly introduced diseases, conflict with European invaders and enslavement followed over the next century and a half, and these were the chief causes of the collapse. In the early 1860s, more than a thousand Rapanui were taken from the island as slaves, and by the late 1870s the number of native islanders numbered only around 100. http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/53200?fulltext=trueprint=yes or http://tinyurl.com/ldwbm Gary Denton OddsEnds - http://elemming.blogspot.com Easter Lemming Liberal News -http://elemming2.blogspot.com http://www.apollocon.org June 22-24, 2007 I ncompetence M oney Laundering P ropaganda E lectronic surveillance A bu Ghraib C ronyism H ad enough? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
On 7/26/06, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26 Jul 2006, at 11:15PM, Matt Grimaldi wrote: Wasn't there a Sci-fi book about that? Yes, there was. The main character had to go find out what happened to his planet's shipment of artificial wombs that hadn't arrived, so his adventure took him into the great wide galaxy... _Ethan of Athos_ by Lois McMaster Bujold. Bujold is an excellent writer. That is one of her lighter tales. Artificial wombs are a background thread through out the Miles Vorkosigan series. -- Gary Denton OddsEnds - http://elemming.blogspot.com Easter Lemming Liberal News -http://elemming2.blogspot.com http://www.apollocon.org June 22-24, 2007 I ncompetence M oney Laundering P ropaganda E lectronic surveillance A bu Ghraib C ronyism H ad enough? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
On 7/23/06, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 24/07/2006, at 12:01 PM, David Hobby wrote: Welcome back. I think you're missing Charlie's point. To me, his argument is that it is VERY hard to draw a clear line between things that can turn into adult humans and things that can't. I advise conceding the point, unless you just like to argue for the fun of it. : ) Precisely. May I propose that you reply: Anything produced by combining a human egg and sperm certainly counts as HUMAN. Other things might also; we'll decide about clones later. What I'm saying is human and human being is not always the same thing, and human being is not always easy to define either. Biology is mess. So is philosophy. In Robert Sawyer's *Mindscan* he postulates that when Roe v. Wade is overturned the definition of human life the Supreme Court adopts is individualization., two weeks after fertilization. Before that time the cells can be divided and two humans formed. He reasoned that the Supreme Court could not make it fertilization as that would make most Americans guilty of murder as birth control pills work by preventing fertilized eggs from attaching to the uterine wall. It would not be the attachment to the uterine wall as that would leave the status of humans born from artificial wombs in doubt, although that technology was not yet perfected. He may be assuming the Supreme Court is smarter than it is and that the religious fanatics are not as fanatical as they are. I am already hearing the arguments that birth control needs to be banned as well. -- Gary Denton OddsEnds - http://elemming.blogspot.com Easter Lemming Liberal News -http://elemming2.blogspot.com http://www.apollocon.org June 22-24, 2007 I ncompetence M oney Laundering P ropaganda E lectronic surveillance A bu Ghraib C ronyism H ad enough? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
On 7/22/06, Brother John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary Denton wrote: Technically, 10,000 frozen embryos could be considered equal to 1,666 children considering the success rate of implantation. You could make a case to rescue those instead of a hundred infants but in nearly all foreseeable circumstance I wouldn't. I don't consider frozen dots human... These periods are the size of a frozen human embryos. There are 400,000 frozen embryos in the United States. Suppose I save Bush and the Snowflake clinic a lot of time and just run around and adopt them all. I'll store them in an ice cream container in my freezer. While trying to decide how to choose who I'll give them to my freezer gets too hot. It may be just the normal temperature I run it at could be too warm for long term embryo viability, but it looks like they spoil. I don't want spoiled stuff in my freezer. I have also been getting afraid anyway I might confuse it with ice cream in the dark and am worried what they would taste like. So I toss them into my garbage. One melting pail of 400,000 embryos, adios. Now, am I the individual biggest mass murderer in US history? Or am I someone who just took out the garbage? On 7/21/06, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20/07/2006, at 12:23 AM, Dan Minette wrote: So, I don't think it is helpful to make arguments based on one's own axiom set and then expect them to sound reasonable to someone who holds a different axiom set. What we can do is look at the consequences of various definitions. This is the point I was heading for. Now, I don't think it's wrong to say that human life starts at conception, but I just think it's meaningless, as a zygote isn't actually any more human than an ovum - it's still a single cell. Sure, it's been given the infusion of extra DNA and the biological kick that'll You can say it's not human if you like, but genetically you are just wrong. It is distinctly human and not of any other living species. Furthermore, it is alive. If it were not, there would be no need to kill it. --JWR It is not a free-standing individual but is at the stage of a symbiotic parasite. My definition of live human begins at a later stage. -isn't this picture of frozen embryos cute. -- Gary Denton OddsEnds - http://elemming.blogspot.com Easter Lemming Liberal News -http://elemming2.blogspot.com http://www.apollocon.org June 22-24, 2007 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
Technically, 10,000 frozen embryos could be considered equal to 1,666 children considering the success rate of implantation. You could make a case to rescue those instead of a hundred infants but in nearly all foreseeable circumstance I wouldn't. I don't consider frozen dots human... These periods are the size of a frozen human embryos. There are 400,000 frozen embryos in the United States. Suppose I save Bush and the Snowflake clinic a lot of time and just run around and adopt them all. I'll store them in an ice cream container in my freezer. While trying to decide how to choose who I'll give them to my freezer gets too hot. It may be just the normal temperature I run it at could be too warm for long term embryo viability, but it looks like they spoil. I don't want spoiled stuff in my freezer. I have also been getting afraid anyway I might confuse it with ice cream in the dark and am worried what they would taste like. So I toss them into my garbage. One melting pail of 400,000 embryos, adios. Now, am I the individual biggest mass murderer in US history? Or am I someone who just took out the garbage? On 7/21/06, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20/07/2006, at 12:23 AM, Dan Minette wrote: So, I don't think it is helpful to make arguments based on one's own axiom set and then expect them to sound reasonable to someone who holds a different axiom set. What we can do is look at the consequences of various definitions. This is the point I was heading for. Now, I don't think it's wrong to say that human life starts at conception, but I just think it's meaningless, as a zygote isn't actually any more human than an ovum - it's still a single cell. Sure, it's been given the infusion of extra DNA and the biological kick that'll I'll give an off the wall example. If one defines humans as the literate animal, and that one must be literate to be human, than it is not murder to kill anyone who cannot read and writefor whatever reason. I'd bet dollars to donuts that no one on this list believes this, but I hope it illustrates the idea. It's a good example. Here's another, to illustrate the point - a fertility clinic is on fire. The fire service is 20 minutes away, and can't help. On one floor, there are 100 infants. On another, is the frozen embryo storage facility, with 100 liquid nitrogen storage containers, each containing 100 embryos. You can only keep the fire from getting to one of the floors long enough to clear it, the other will be lost. What do you do? I'd be willing to bet that nearly everyone would save the 100 infants over the 10,000 embryos. Because, no matter how much the right to life is espoused, no matter how much some people talk of embryos as children and claim they see them as equal, people do value babies more. And if you can understand why, then you can understand why abortions up to 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through pregnancy are not considered murder by a lot of people. Charlie -- Gary Denton OddsEnds - http://elemming.blogspot.com Easter Lemming Liberal News -http://elemming2.blogspot.com http://www.apollocon.org June 22-24, 2007 I ncompetence M oney Laundering P ropaganda E lectronic surveillance A bu Ghraib C ronyism H ad enough? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
More about war for oil
The Mission Was Indeed Accomplished Scoop: Bush Didn't Bungle Iraq - Greg Palast Greg supposedly has a copy of a state department 300+ page document detailing their post-Saddam oil plans for Iraq. The big secret - the objective was to keep Iraqi oil production low and cooperate with OPEC. Operation Iraqi Liberation. O.I.L. How droll of them, how cute. Then, Karl Rove made the giggling boys in the White House change it to OIF -- Operation Iraqi Freedom. But the 101st Airborne wasn't sent to Basra to get its hands on Iraq's OIF. Several previous reports detail the two conflicting groups within this administration over Iraqi oil production. Dick and George didn't want more oil from Iraq, they wanted less. Google it, my news site, Guardian or Scoop -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 OddsEnds - http://elemming.blogspot.com Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution. You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible. Easter Lemming Liberal News -http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Bush snuck his Social Security Plan into the Budget
Bush's Social Security Sleight of Hand By Allan Sloan The Washington Post Wednesday 08 February 2006 If you read enough numbers, you never know what you'll find. Take President Bush and private Social Security accounts. Last year, even though Bush talked endlessly about the supposed joys of private accounts, he never proposed a specific plan to Congress and never put privatization costs in the budget. But this year, with no fanfare whatsoever, Bush stuck a big Social Security privatization plan in the federal budget proposal, which he sent to Congress on Monday. His plan would let people set up private accounts starting in 2010 and would divert more than $700 billion of Social Security tax revenues to pay for them over the first seven years. If this comes as a surprise to you, have no fear. You're not alone. Bush didn't pitch private Social Security accounts in his State of the Union message last week. First, he drew a mocking standing ovation from Democrats by saying that Congress did not act last year on my proposal to save Social Security, even though, as I said, he'd never submitted specific legislation. Then he seemed to be kicking the Social Security problem a few years down the road in typical Washington fashion when he asked Congress to join me in creating a commission to examine the full impact of baby boom retirements on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, adding that the commission would be bipartisan and offer bipartisan solutions. But anyone who thought that Bush would wait for bipartisanship to deal with Social Security was wrong. Instead, he stuck his own privatization proposals into his proposed budget. The Democrats were laughing all the way to the funeral of Social Security modernization, White House spokesman Trent Duffy told me in an interview Tuesday, but the president still cares deeply about this. Duffy asserted that Bush would have been remiss not to include in the budget the cost of something that he feels so strongly about, and he seemed surprised at my surprise that Social Security privatization had been written into the budget without any advance fanfare. Duffy said privatization costs were included in the midyear budget update that the Office of Management and Budget released last July 30, so it was logical for them to be in the 2007 budget proposals. But I sure didn't see this coming - and I wonder how many people outside of the White House did. Nevertheless, it's here. Unlike Bush's generalized privatization talk of last year, we're now talking detailed numbers. On page 321 of the budget proposal, you see the privatization costs: $24.182 billion in fiscal 2010, $57.429 billion in fiscal 2011 and another $630.533 billion for the five years after that, for a seven-year total of $712.144 billion. In the first year of private accounts, people would be allowed to divert up to 4 percent of their wages covered by Social Security into what Bush called voluntary private accounts. The maximum contribution to such accounts would start at $1,100 annually and rise by $100 a year through 2016. It's not clear how big a reduction in the basic benefit Social Security recipients would have to take in return for being able to set up these accounts, or precisely how the accounts would work. Bush also wants to change the way Social Security benefits are calculated for most people by adopting so-called progressive indexing. Lower-income people would continue to have their Social Security benefits tied to wages, but the benefits paid to higher-paid people would be tied to inflation. Wages have typically risen 1.1 percent a year more than inflation, so over time, that disparity would give lower-paid and higher-paid people essentially the same benefit. However, higher-paid workers would be paying substantially more into the system than lower-paid people would. This means that although progressive indexing is an attractive idea from a social-justice point of view, it would reduce Social Security's political support by making it seem more like welfare than an earned benefit. Bush is right, of course, when he says in his budget proposal that Social Security in its current form is unsustainable. But there are plenty of ways to fix it besides offering private accounts as a substitute for part of the basic benefit. Bush's 2001 Social Security commission had members of both parties, but they had to agree in advance to support private accounts. Their report, which had some interesting ideas, went essentially nowhere. What remains to be seen is whether this time around Bush follows through on forming a bipartisan commission and whether he can get credible Democrats to join it. Dropping numbers onto your opponents is a great way to stick your finger in their eye. But will it get the Social Security job done? That, my friends, is a whole other story. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25
Re: Cocoa additives
On 12/18/05, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary Nunn wrote: 2005/12/12, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I like having something minty in my cocoa. :) One of my favorite winter drinks is a mug of hot chocolate, made with milk, that has marshmallow peeps floating in it instead of standard marshmallows. I find that the Christmas tree peeps work best... Or for the politically correct on the list, I mean the Holiday Tree peeps work the best. :-) On a pagan-centric list I'm on (long story), someone posted about finding a really cool artificial Yule tree. (At Dollar General, no less) Julia I went to a couple Solstice parties a few years ago that had a yule log with natural decorations. I see now yule logs are more often cake desserts. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Intelligunt Desine Rulez! Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Help me identify 80's cop show...
On 12/19/05, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary Nunn wrote: http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/hills/1742/ Click on Made for TV near the end of the page, see if anything there looks familiar. (And if this leads you to it, you have a guy named Scott to thank.) Julia Wow, give my thanks to Scott :-) I sent him a link to your post. He's glad to have helped you. :) Julia Glad it was found - an interesting search project. I had looked there but didn't make it to the bottom and check the made for TV. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Critic Harold Bloom despairs over America
Reflections in the Evening Land The celebrated critic Harold Bloom, despairing of contemporary America, turns to his bookshelves to understand the trajectory of his country Saturday December 17, 2005 The Guardian Excerpt: At the age of 75, I wonder if the Democratic party ever again will hold the presidency or control the Congress in my lifetime. I am not sanguine, because our rulers have demonstrated their prowess in Florida (twice) and in Ohio at shaping voting procedures, and they control the Supreme Court. The economist-journalist Paul Krugman recently observed that the Republicans dare not allow themselves to lose either Congress or the White House, because subsequent investigations could disclose dark matters indeed. Krugman did not specify, but among the profiteers of our Iraq crusade are big oil (House of Bush/House of Saud), Halliburton (the vice-president), Bechtel (a nest of mighty Republicans) and so forth. All of this is extraordinarily blatant, yet the American people seem benumbed, unable to read, think, or remember, and thus fit subjects for a president who shares their limitations. A grumpy old Democrat, I observe to my friends that our emperor is himself the best argument for intelligent design, the current theocratic substitute for what used to be called creationism. Sigmund Freud might be chagrined to discover that he is forgotten, while the satan of America is now Charles Darwin. President Bush, who says that Jesus is his favourite philosopher, recently decreed in regard to intelligent design and evolution: Both sides ought to be properly taught. I am a teacher by profession, about to begin my 51st year at Yale, where frequently my subject is American writers. Without any particular competence in politics, I assert no special insight in regard to the American malaise. But I am a student of what I have learned to call the American Religion, which has little in common with European Christianity. There is now a parody of the American Jesus, a kind of Republican CEO who disapproves of taxes, and who has widened the needle's eye so that camels and the wealthy pass readily into the Kingdom of Heaven. We have also an American holy spirit, the comforter of our burgeoning poor, who don't bother to vote. The American trinity pragmatically is completed by an imperial warrior God, trampling with shock and awe. These days I reread the writers who best define America: Emerson, Hawthorne, Whitman, Melville, Mark Twain, Faulkner, among others. Searching them, I seek to find what could suffice to explain what seems our national self-destructiveness http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1669277,00.html -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Help me identify 80's cop show...
On 12/12/05, Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I apologize if I have asked this here before, but for several years I have been trying to identify a TV show I saw in the mid to late 80's, late one night. It was a police show, and I think their police station was an old bakery. The show jumped back and forth and followed the same officers through three different time periods - maybe in the 60's or 70's, present day (late 80's then) and in the near future. I think it was a failed pilot for a series. I can't remember anyone who may have been in it. I have searched many times on Google with different terms as well as the IMDB. Anyone? Gary If it was a series TV.com would have but I am pretty sure it isn't. Their forums might be a good place to ask anyway. http://forums.tv.com/ A pilot I remember in the 90's was based on a small neighborhood police station sharing a building with a beauty salon but no time jumping. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 must finish shopping... Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Front in the War-on-Mithrasmas Opens up on CNN
Tonight on Comedy Central Stephen Colbert launched a war on those who launched a war on those using Happy Holidays. Supposedly he found out that holidays is a derivative of holy days and Focus on the Family, O'Reilly, Robertson, etc. are trying to take the holy out of Christmas. On 12/12/05, The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/12/lol.03.html -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Karen: So what's this big news, then? Daisy: [excited] We've been given our parts in the nativity play. And I'm the lobster. Karen: The lobster? Daisy: Yeah! Karen: In the nativity play? Daisy: [beaming] Yeah, *first* lobster. Karen: There was more than one lobster present at the birth of Jesus? Daisy: Duh. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com Other stuff - http://elemming.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Cocoa additives
On 12/12/05, Mauro Diotallevi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/12/05, Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mauro the gourmand Diotallevi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shudders Sorry, I have tried mole several times and found it very unpalatable; maybe it just wasn't prepared correctly. But mango-chipotle salsa sounds delicious! Mangoes are one of my favorite foods in the world, but mole comes in a close second. I believe turkey mole is more traditional, but chicken mole is made much more commonly these days. I've even eaten a nice pork mole. A recent contestant on Iron Chef America made a sauce that was more or less mole and called it Aztec Love Potion. I believe there is a Colorado company that actually makes a Cocoa Mole food bar, with no meat in it but with raisins, almonds, walnuts, dates, chili powder... I'm missing an ingredient or two here... I have been wanting to try the 888 Chinese restaurant in Houston that has Mango Shrimp and other mango dishes. Part of the revitalized Gulfgate retail area. Last night I went to the Boudreaux near there and had gator for the first time. Their blackened gator is delicious, they also have a good etouffee. A good etouffee recipe is here: http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/091102/fea_ship1.shtml But certainly, everyone's tastes are different. For example, despite their similarities, I enjoy a good haggis but am not much fond of menudo. Menudo is supposedly comfort food for hangovers. If you are adventurous, try a dash of Trappey's Red Devil Sauce in your cocoa. Or a mixture of green chillies, ginger, coriander, and cumin, like you might find in an Indian curry -- I would leave out the onions, garlic, tomato, and ghee :-) You *are* skating on the edge of sanity, sir; I wish to _enhance_ the flavor of cocoa, not mangle it. ;) Often a bit of pepper - a good black pepper or hot pepper - enhances other flavors. Also a sweet fruit - jalapeno glaze on meats can be very good. Sweet, tangy and really goes well with pork and turkey. I used to think that black pepper was just black pepper until I tasted black pepper from Watkins. (Unless it was Adam's black Malabar I tasted first? Damn it, now I am going to have to do a taste comparison.) My years-ago trial of fresh ginger in tea with milk was tongue-curdling; how do you mix ginger and milk without that? Or is it a matter of amount, or using powdered ginger instead of fresh? I really like chai. When refiling my glass at a restaurant a year ago I noticed the coffee fixings were out and I added half and half and brown sugar to their iced currant tea. Now I always do that there. This seems to have been all odds and ends on food, I suppose skipping breakfast and lunch can do that to your train of thought. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 I need some eggnog Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 12/11/05, Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am a member of another particular email group. When a discussion thread was getting too long and verbose we opened up a new group and referred those threads to Hou-SF-Verbose. It opened up a new meaning to you want to take it outside. The Verbose group never became that active as it wasn't clear when a discussion was getting too long and verbosity spoiled and when someone should make the call. (It became more a OT group for subjects not really connected with the club.) Heh! I was also a member of that family of mailing lists for a while. I quit when it became plain that the listmanager was a bit singleminded and overbearing IMO. I can think of nothing more boring than a mailing list that consists of little more than amateur book and story reviews by people who think nothing worthwhile has been written since 1960. I'm glad to see they got the Con going, that was the only thing of Still a very right wing, somewhat overbearing NASA subcontractor manager running Clear Lake. He has been shut out of ApolloCon leadership roles for his lack of ability to work nicely with others. No book reviews in a very long while and then it was not usually just about books from the 60's. Anita does keeps posting repeats of articles she gets from the SF Book Club to the verbose and InnerLoop group lists. Most posts are connected to parties, activities, and meetings. The Houston Saturday SF Ritual Breakfast probably has more people only interested in SF from the 60's. Big Houston party the 17th at David Forbus's video warehouse loft. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 hiccup, hiccup Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 12/10/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 12/9/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] That was the first post-Saddam era *upstream deals* Trying to slip one over? Ah, no. Oil field development contracts, to either expand production or to develop new fields are upsteam contracts. For established fields, just drilling new wells and logging them comes cheap. Big oil companies don't do this kind of work, service companies do...and the pricing is usually low. Big discounts off the '85 price books still exist, for example. So it seems to me you are saying a win for Cheney and service companies but not a big win for the majors. I have been considering that there should be a separate classification for companies that are getting their money off of government contracts as they are some the most Republican and are some of the biggest contributors to the party - all with taxpayer dollars. Taking over a country isn't a big win for all these government contractors? How low profit, (and low cash flow which is a better measure considering these cash plus contracts where there can be more profit in seeking high bidder sub-contractors), do you think Haliburton and KBR contracts in Iraq have been? Indeed, Indeed, I specifically asked you what you meant and your reply indicated development deals for future production. That's the only thing that comes close to controlling the oil. ? Only companies that pump future oil count for controlling oil? You seem to be splitting this control off into different little pieces and trying to fit it to individual companies. (I also think you are lumping me into some other category - Blood for Oil marchers? - which was part of an impression I got earlier when I said we seem to be talking past each other.) The folks who rent drilling rigs don't have any control over the oil, nor do the wireline loggers. Their job is to do as they are told and say yes sir and no sir to the company man. Ask your relatives who are in the business if people who rent or sell drilling equipment are the ones who have control over oil wells if you don't believe me. After writing this, I thought some more and decided that it was possible that you were thinking of downstream contracts, but I don't see how that could control the oil. I looked for downstream contracts and found: http://www.portaliraq.com/news/Iraq+seeks+contract+to+build+$2+billion+refinery__134.html referring to developing a refinery to produce distilled fuels for use in Iraq. Certainly, that's not the big market. Lets assume that ExxonMobil builds and owns a refinery in Iraq. That refinery doesn't have to be used. Iraq could still ship crude oil. So, I was actually quite positive that you were referring to the upstream contracts I referenced. I'm actually not sure what you referencedbecause I can think of nothing else that is even close to controlling the oil. Who controls the oil in Iraq? Why are you pointing to individual companies? This was a sub point and you have been making your whole argument on this when I stated in my first post, my first post in months because a post you had seemed so off the wall at least to me, two clear main points. 1. Reputable creditable sources outside the US knew that Bush was not a threat militarily with WMDs. I say that because I was easily able to find that out. 2 . The Cheney group, the WHIG group, and the Rendon [Group] PR agency were all working on selling a war Lies or truth didn't matter. The more threatening sounding the better. Rather Bush knew he was wrong and/or lying is unclear, he does not admit to mistakes or lies. We were misled into war by people to whom the actual truth of things didn't matter is a better way of putting it. I thought we were discussing a war to control the oil. And that is my point, that is a side point that you are arguing, - Cheney et. al. - believe that to strategically control oil is the key to power this century. No one can doubt that. Your hunting around with a lantern looking for which minor companies get new oil field production contracts - which will be absorbed into the 7 Sisters or their descendants anyway if it is significant, - seems to be turning a magnifying glass into the next field over. Your quote refers to contracts, paid with US taxpayer money, to rebuild Iraq in various ways. The only oilfield contract that was awarded was one to repair damage done during the war. I haven't seen a break down of these contracts into repairing damage and ensuring a reliable steady modern efficient supply of oil. And I think trying to split them that way is meaningless. I think you are wanting to say: See - No big oil company is profiting from this war or wanted this war so it was not a war for oil. Unfortunately that is not the argument. Maybe you
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 12/10/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the time and now, I believed that Hussein did pose a potential long term threat to the interests of the US. The most worrisome aspect of this, was the campaign by the French and Russians to end the sanctions without requiring further inspections. But, after 9-11 and Bush's speech, I think we could have pushed for continued exhaustive inspections at a far lower cost than the warin many terms. So, I thought (and in hindsight I consider myself correct) that the strategic interest of the US argued against the war. I seemed to have lost the line where I entirely agreed with your last two sentences here. Uhmm, here is the core neo-con argument for the Iraq War, is this also your argument? - The reason for war, in the first instance, was always the strategic threat posed by Saddam because of his proven record of aggression and barbarity, his admitted possession of weapons of mass destruction, and the certain knowledge of his programs to build more. It was the threat he posed to his region, to our allies, and to core U.S. interests that justified going to war this past spring, just as it also would have justified a Clinton administration decision to go to war in 1998. http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/003/236jmcbd.asp?pg=1 Although you say you disagreed with the war you seem to say you agree with this reasoning. Which I should say is a reasonable position except I just think Kristol's argument here and particularly the rest I of the article I didn't quote was the same mess of half-truths that Bush and Cheney used. I get back to the point that if I could see the threat was overstated other people should have been able to see it too, I should probably work on that since I know how poorly the MSM has reported on most matters of policy substance in this country. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 My socks match, they're the same thickness. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 12/11/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Bitter Fruit - Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: Re: Bitter Fruit Dan wrote: But, you are putting forth a different question. Whether the Bush Administration thought Iraq posed a significant threat to the US. I think that's true. I think, especially after 9-11, they made the connection, and proof texted the intelligence, ignoring every caveat, to find proof of what they already knew. And, with all due respect, I think the blood for oil argument is a left wing parallel of their mythology. But, gee whiz, we've not only got strategic control of the Iraqi oil fields, we've got record high oil prices and oil company profits! Its a win win!! And giant corporate friends of the president get huge no bid contracts! Win, win, win!!! And it's all because of the war on terror, so its all the terrorist's fault. Win, win, win, win Golly, gee whiz, how convenient is that?!?!! Has anyone factored in increased demand from China and India as a partial reason for higher Oil/Gas prices? I seem to recall that was an issue about a year or so ago. Certainly, the increased demand from the Asian sector (which includes China and India) is an important factor. When oil dropped through the floor in 1999, there was a combination of factors that included a big spike up in Iraqi oil exports combined with a lessening of the increase in demand for oil. A quick google didn't pull up the chart I found a week ago, but I think that demand from '98 to '99 either went up 1% or was flat. So, if Iraq oil production was now at 4 million barrels/day, we would not have $10.00 oil. We also would not have $60.00 oil. This summer, I read that the spare production was down to half a million barrels/day. If Iraq was up at 4, that would be closer to 3. Rough guess from past trends, I'd say that oil would have stayed near the price it was at in the year or so before the war if things went as planned. One thing that amazes me is how inelastic demand was between $30 oil and $60 oil. We are starting to see an effect, but 2005 should be a record year for world oil consumption. This indicates to me, since short term supply is also fairly inelastic, that oil prices are very sensitive to relatively minor (in a percentage basis) variations in the supply/demand balance. I have been more amazed at the wild price swings at the pump with the smaller swings at wholesale and then the rapid moderation in prices . I had a couple people tell me that work for the larger companies in Houston that pump prices were pulled back to smaller profit margins by the majors in an effort to minimize calls for new taxes. They were making record profits anyway. The actual selling of retail gasoline is not where the big money is. I remember even reading in the 70's it was often a loss leader. Of course, Cheney convincing the EU to release much of their strategic reserve to the US was another factor in the price drop. Some people have said their is an effort going on to damp down price swings and make them more gradual and give more stability to the markets. We no longer have Enron pushing for wild swings to make money on the markets and California and Enron's collapse may have taught a few lessons. Rising demand in China and India, indications that the leaders are starting to recognize peak oil production is now, continued environmental problems affecting refining and production, recognition that Iraq and Saudi may have overproduced and damaged some fields, influence of strategic oil releases, future production in West Africa and the former Soviet Republics oil pricing is like the stock market in giving you a lot of factors to consider. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Boxers or briefs? Both. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
Recommended *Enron - The Smartest Guys in the Room* DVD in January http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C3L2IO/ -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 No socks and Chinese food Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 12/9/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your list is of recent contracts after things went to Hell in a handbasket. My later post I actually stopped pulling news accounts of contracts in 2003 except for a very recent post of the type of contracts being given. There is a clear difference between what was happening in the first year and before and what is happening now. Between their plans for strategic control of oil financed by Iraqi oil and the current $100 billion toilet. Well, my first source said: BAGHDAD: Iraq's oil ministry has awarded the country's first post-war oilfield development contracts to Turkish and Canadian firms, an oil official said on Thursday. That was the first post-Saddam era *upstream deals* Trying to slip one over? So what contracts were awarded before the first contract? There may have been a consulting contracts before this, but this is a multiply sourced very specific reference to a tracable contract that have specific companies listed as participating in the contracts. I see nothing so concrete from your quotes. It's all about secret plans to start a war to do something that never started to happen. Further, the people in question would be starting a war to decrease their own companies net worth and income. I summarized over 20 bids from newspaper articles in 2003 here - Point to where this is all secret plans to start a war to do something that never started to happen and say again there is nothing concrete? Halliburton and its KBR subsidiary received Iraqi oil field contracts without competitive bidding... Bechtel Group won the contract to rebuild Iraq without open competitive bidding A contract to improve Iraq's public health system was awarded to a research and consulting firm, Abt Associates Inc, from MassachusettsHalliburton's KBR, closely linked to Vice President Dick Cheney, was given exclusive contracts in Iraq, including renovating presidential palace to be used by the US. The company was also given the Logistics Civil Augmentation Program that will set up, cater to and care for the Iraq-based officials and it has no cost ceiling. ... A Washington report lays out the groundwork for potential contractors and outlines the steps that will launch Iraq as a test case for exporting neoliberal economic models to the Middle EastMembers of the Iraqi Governing Council expressed grave concern over the $1.2 billion cost of police training in Iraq and the list of sub-contractors approved by Bechtel... According to Christian Aid, the Coalition Provisional Authority has accounted for only one fifth of Iraq reconstruction funds On the first day of the [Iraq Development] Fund's existence, May 22, 2003, US President George Bush issued an Executive Order that seems to formalize crony capitalism in Iraq by substantially protecting US oil corporations The Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) has been unable to account for billions of dollars transferred by the UN to the Development Fund for Iraq. Furthermore, the CPA has stymied the work of the International Advisory Monitoring Board (IAMB) created to provide transparency... The law firm headed by former US Secretary of State James Baker will restructure Iraq's debts. Greg Palast points out that the US-influenced Iraqi Governing Council made the appointment, thereby preventing the US Congress from demanding accountability... .Funds for the reconstruction and development of Iraq will pay for 26 contracts in the electricity, oil and water sectors, but the Pentagon will not permit French, Russian and German firms to take part and I'll stop with a partial listing just through 2003. http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/contractindex.htm I also provided a source with links to all the articles. You, on the other hand, are trying to slip new development deals as the first deals instead of only the first of that type of deal. I also answered previously your argument that people pushing this was were pushing this war against their own economic interests. You seem to be losing things, should I wait till you catch up on your reading? snip Finally, I think there is an unwritten assumption underlying this analysis. It is that Hussein never has and was very unlikely to ever pose a significant future risk to the United States. No reasonable person could even think so. Is my reading of that assumption valid? I think that is a fair assumption. So, his invasion of Kuwait was just a local matter, and didn't pose any risk at all to the US or the world at large? Show me where Saddam was prepared to invade Kuwait again. Show me where Saddam had any military offensive capability? And not back 15 years ago but after he had suffered the worst military defeat in modern times and then was embargoed for a decade. You can't really believe this stuff your spouting, can you? -- Gary Denton
Re: Cocoa additives
On 12/9/05, Mauro Diotallevi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/9/05, Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't intend to be lurkish, but so it appears... I sympathize with the feeling. It doesn't matter how much I intend to become more active; it seems I always find other things taking up more of my time. Anyway, the recent frigid weather here has had me experimenting with flavors in my cocoa; nutmeg, cinnamon and mint are well-known, but a dash of the following is good too: mace (the spice, not the canned spray!) cardomom clove Not so good: allspice. My wife says that nutmeg goes with everything. But I personally have always enjoyed mixing sweet with hot and spicy. Think mango and chipotle peppers together, for an example, or papaya and cayenne. Or the mixture of chocolate and various peppers in mole. If you are adventurous, try a dash of Trappey's Red Devil Sauce in your cocoa. Or a mixture of green chillies, ginger, coriander, and cumin, like you might find in an Indian curry -- I would leave out the onions, garlic, tomato, and ghee :-) snipped more holiday ideas I hope that helps! Mauro Chestnuts roasting on an open fire... Chipmunks Roasting On an Open Fire - Bob Rivers Band (Parody of The Christmas Song (Chestnuts Roasting On An Open Fire) by Nat King Cole) Chipmunks roasting on an open fire Hot sauce dripping from their toes (Oh! That tickles!) Yuletide squirrels fresh filleted by the choir They poked hot skewers through their nose (Ow! Wrong end, ya cowboy!) ...more http://www.bobrivers.com/audiovault/tunes/tunestop30.asp -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 It's beginning to seem a lot like Xmas - Santa Robot's eyes glowed a bright red. What do you want for Xmas, Leela? Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com Notebook - http://elemming.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 12/9/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My response to this seems to have been lost. There are a couple of parts to what I want to say. The first part will address some of the information given by Gary. The second part will detail a fraction of the news articles indicating that US companies are not the first in line for oil development contracts. Your list is of recent contracts after things went to Hell in a handbasket. My later post I actually stopped pulling news accounts of contracts in 2003 except for a very recent post of the type of contracts being given. There is a clear difference between what was happening in the first year and before and what is happening now. Between their plans for strategic control of oil financed by Iraqi oil and the current $100 billion toilet. snip Finally, I think there is an unwritten assumption underlying this analysis. It is that Hussein never has and was very unlikely to ever pose a significant future risk to the United States. No reasonable person could even think so. Is my reading of that assumption valid? I think that is a fair assumption. Today the WP reports the only evidence the White House ever had of links between Osama and Saddam was obtained after one member was being tortured in Egypt and saying whatever lies we wanted to hear. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Cocoa additives
Why is allspice not good in cocoa? On 12/9/05, Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't intend to be lurkish, but so it appears... Anyway, the recent frigid weather here has had me experimenting with flavors in my cocoa; nutmeg, cinnamon and mint are well-known, but a dash of the following is good too: mace (the spice, not the canned spray!) cardomom clove Not so good: allspice. Debbi Pretzels Are NOT For Dunking In Cocoa, Sir! Maru;) -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
-based officials and it has no cost ceiling. ... A Washington report lays out the groundwork for potential contractors and outlines the steps that will launch Iraq as a test case for exporting neoliberal economic models to the Middle EastMembers of the Iraqi Governing Council expressed grave concern over the $1.2 billion cost of police training in Iraq and the list of sub-contractors approved by Bechtel... According to Christian Aid, the Coalition Provisional Authority has accounted for only one fifth of Iraq reconstruction funds On the first day of the [Iraq Development] Fund's existence, May 22, 2003, US President George Bush issued an Executive Order that seems to formalize crony capitalism in Iraq by substantially protecting US oil corporations The Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) has been unable to account for billions of dollars transferred by the UN to the Development Fund for Iraq. Furthermore, the CPA has stymied the work of the International Advisory Monitoring Board (IAMB) created to provide transparency... The law firm headed by former US Secretary of State James Baker will restructure Iraq's debts. Greg Palast points out that the US-influenced Iraqi Governing Council made the appointment, thereby preventing the US Congress from demanding accountability... .Funds for the reconstruction and development of Iraq will pay for 26 contracts in the electricity, oil and water sectors, but the Pentagon will not permit French, Russian and German firms to take part and I'll stop with a partial listing just through 2003. There is a long article there recently on the total inappropriateness and the looting of Iraq by the US forcing Production Sharing Agreements for the oil contracts. http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/contractindex.htm http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2005/crudedesigns.htm BTW, Republicans voted as a bloc against any oversight on Pentagon spending for Iraq and Afghanistan through the first two supplementals. It wasn't until the third supplemental, and constituents throwing hissy fits over run away spending, that some oversight amendments were finally added - after the damage had been done. That profit considerations are not a higher concern for companies than overall US economic and foreign policy? That's probably true. So, why would they support an action that would cut their profits? That's the part of the claim that totally baffles me. Because it is a strategic imperative for the neocon's, an article of faith, that the US must control the oil and that while the oil industry as a whole would be hurt with more oil available specific companies would make up for it with new oil infrastructure contracts and all would at least have a secure US controlled source. What are you saying I am you all are dead wrong about. Very often I feel we are talking past each other. That the war in Iraq would have a positive effect on the profits of oil companies and oil service firms. Everyone thought that, if Iraq's production were to get back on line, oil companies would be hurt. You basically agree with Jim Lobe, your opposite in politics but who argues it was strategic considerations that drove the US Middle East oil policy even as oil companies fretted about excess production. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Houston Party Dec. 17 - http://elemming.blogspot.com The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
'The invasion of Iraq was a bandit act, an act of blatant state terrorism, '
Court of Justice. But Bush has been clever. He has not ratified the International Criminal Court of Justice. Therefore if any American soldier or for that matter politician finds himself in the dock Bush has warned that he will send in the marines. But Tony Blair has ratified the Court and is therefore available for prosecution. We can let the Court have his address if they're interested. It is Number 10, Downing Street, London. Death in this context is irrelevant. Both Bush and Blair place death well away on the back burner. At least 100,000 Iraqis were killed by American bombs and missiles before the Iraq insurgency began. These people are of no moment. Their deaths don't exist. They are blank. They are not even recorded as being dead. 'We don't do body counts,' said the American general Tommy Franks. Remarkable speech - it's entirety here: http://nobelprize.org/literature/laureates/2005/pinter-lecture-e.html Reaction here: Passionate Pinter's devastating assault on US foreign policy Shades of Beckett as ailing playwright delivers powerful Nobel lecture http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1661911,00.html -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Party Dec 17th http://elemming.blogspot.com The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Worst President ever?
The History News Network at George Mason University has just polled historians informally on the Bush record. Four hundred and fifteen, about a third of those contacted, answered -- maybe they were all crazed liberals -- making the project as unofficial as it was interesting. These were the results: 338 said they believed Bush was failing, while 77 said he was succeeding. Fifty said they thought he was the worst president ever. Worse than Buchanan. This is what those historians said -- and it should be noted that some of the criticism about deficit spending and misuse of the military came from self-identified conservatives -- about the Bush record: He has taken the country into an unwinnable war and alienated friend and foe alike in the process; He is bankrupting the country with a combination of aggressive military spending and reduced taxation of the rich; He has deliberately and dangerously attacked separation of church and state; He has repeatedly misled, to use a kind word, the American people on affairs domestic and foreign; He has proved to be incompetent in affairs domestic (New Orleans) and foreign ( Iraq and the battle against al-Qaida); He has sacrificed American employment (including the toleration of pension and benefit elimination) to increase overall productivity; He is ignorantly hostile to science and technological progress; He has tolerated or ignored one of the republic's oldest problems, corporate cheating in supplying the military in wartime. Still, while the great majority said he was failing as president less than 15% were willing now to say he was the worst president. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucrr/20051203/cm_ucrr/isgeorgebushtheworstpresidentever -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
advocated the plan as a means to help the US defeat Opec, and said America should have gone ahead with what he called a no-brainer decision. Mr Carroll hit back, telling Newsnight, I would agree with that statement. To privatize would be a no-brainer. It would only be thought about by someone with no brain. New plans, obtained from the State Department by Newsnight and Harper's Magazine under the US Freedom of Information Act, called for creation of a state-owned oil company favored by the US oil industry. It was completed in January 2004, Harper's discovered, under the guidance of Amy Jaffe of the James Baker Institute in Texas. Former US Secretary of State Baker is now an attorney. His law firm, Baker Botts, is representing ExxonMobil and the Saudi Arabian government. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 11/30/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The corruption in Iraq reconstruction and security is currently estimated at ten times that of the oil-for-food scandal. Well, let's see. All of the oil sales were controlled by Hussein and that totaled about 2 million barrels/day. In 2001-2002, oil prices were in the $25 range, so lets just say an even 15 billion year. The security and reconstruction outsourcing clearly isn't 150 billion/year, so how can that be true? Who did the estimating? I am heading out but want to answer this quick point. Are you claiming the total dollars that Saddam received was corruption? The oil-for-food scandal corruption and bribery is estimated at around 4% of that. The rest deserves a detailed response. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
not proceed until the unbreakable nature of those long term contracts was reasonably secured. This leads to anothe rpoint. We have such overwhelming differences in our understanding of how the oil business works, that it really blows me away. My understanding of how the business works comes from experience (e.g. being in the Mid-East and talking to ex-pats and locals), discussions with a wide range of individuals in the business(including friends who have management jobs in service and oil companies), and critical reading of business analysis. Remember, my job depends on the state of the oil business, so I was very interested in understanding the ecconomics. My experience dealing with the oil business is living in Houston and having relatives as engineers and managers with the oil company. My experience with Iraqi economics is keeping up with the politics of the CPA. What makes you so sure that all these scientists, engineers, managers (including regional managers), marketing analysis are all dead wrongabout the basic economics of the oil patch? There is a lot of difference in the politics of folks at places where I've worked, but we have been able to arrive at a decent consensus concerning the basic economics. I've worked through the view you must have of us, and all of the views I come up with are quite uncomplimentary. I hope I'm just missing something. I am not sure what you mean here. Which of my statement are you denying or feel my views are incorrect. That most of the Cheney team - shorthand - did not plan for years to take over Iraq? That Cheney did not meet with the oil company executives before the war began to divvy up oil contracts for Iraq? That the CPA was intent on securing American long term contracts? That profit considerations are not a higher concern for companies than overall US economic and foreign policy? BTW, It's not that you think I am wrongthat's not insulting. It's that you appear to think that all** us folks in the industry are dead wrong about something that they should reasonably be expected to understand. What are you saying I am you all are dead wrong about. Very often I feel we are talking past each other. Dan M. **I'm sure you can find a quote from someone in the industry who doesn't hold this viewit does employ tens of thousands. But, I think I've done at least a mediocre job of sampling the better educated people in the industry. And what is this view? And what is it compared to the view you believe I hold? -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 11/28/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] The people pushing this war don't care much about the American economy as a whole - their biggest friends are in the defense-and oil related industries. This is a profiteers war. So, if I understand your point correctly, Bush went to war so that a few key industries could make about 10 billion per year in profit for a couple of years? He was not only wrong, but happily sacrificed thousands of lives, hundreds of thousands of dollars, much of the military readyness of the US, just so a few key friends could make, compared to the 11+ US ecconomy, chump change? In particular, if you compare the profits from this war to the chance of getting further tax cuts through, dosen't it seem like an inefficient way to get money to the wealthy? This was in response to your comment you cut off. Bush didn't care about the economy as a whole, the people he most associated with like the war business just fine. Second, do you deny the history our country has had with war profiteers and the military-industrial complex? Third - There had alreay been a plan in place for years by those who felt they were unjustly out of power to remake the Middle East starting with Iraq and seize control of the oil. The Bush team in military and foreign policy was stacked with this wahawk gang who had their own reasons to going to Iraq and would also profit from a war. Further, I did a bit of research on Clinton's views. A speach he gave in early '98 is given at: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/ At the time Clinton was being accused by the GOP of diverting attention from his problems by wagging the dog. In a speech to the nation, President Clinton defended his attack on Iraq, saying a strong, sustained series of airstrikes against Iraq was necessary to punish Saddam Hussein for his refusal to comply with U.N. weapons inspectors. Only minutes into Operation Desert Fox, Republicans were crying Wag the Dog. Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, R-Miss., joined other leading Republicans in claiming he could not support the attack because he couldn't be sure it wasn't politically motivated, although Lott had been briefed three weeks ago about the possibility of an attack if Saddam defied the United Nations. There were debates on the moderate-left about the bombings: http://www.salon.com/news/1998/12/cov_17newsb.html You will note it was the Democratic hawks that were urging an attack: http://www.salon.com/news/1998/12/cov_17newsa.html In a point of agreement both conservative and Scott Ritter saw the attack as unnecessary: The Washington Times (12/18/98, p. 1) reports The White House orchestrated a plan to provoke Saddam Hussein into defying United Nations weapons inspectors so President Clinton could justify air strikes, former and current government officials charge. Scott Ritter, a former U.N. inspector who resigned this summer, said yesterday the U.N. Special Commission (Unscom) team led by Richard Butler deliberately chose sites it knew would provoke Iraqi defiance at the White House's urging. Mr. Ritter also said Mr. Butler, executive chairman of the Unscom, conferred with the Clinton administration's national security staff on how to write his report of noncompliance before submitting it to the U.N. Security Council Tuesday night. The former inspector said the White House wanted to ensure the report contained sufficiently tough language on which to justify its decision to bomb Iraq. 'I'm telling you this was a preordained conclusion. This inspection was a total setup by the United States,' Mr. Ritter said. 'The U.S. was pressing [the U.N.] to carry out this test. The test was very provocative. They were designed to elicit Iraqi defiance.'... TIMING IS EVERYTHING The White House knew by Dec. 9, when U.N. inspectors were in Baghdad, that the House had planned to debate impeachment as early as Wednesday, Dec. 16. Air strikes began that day. EVIDENCE CONFIRMS THAT CLINTON'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL ATTACK ON IRAQ WAS A LONG-PLANNED POLITICAL PLOY Robert Novak points out that (The Washington Post, 12/21/98, p. A29) As Clinton took Palestinian applause in Gaza last Monday [December 14], secret plans were underway for an air strike coinciding with the House impeachment vote. The president had time to consult with Congress and the U.N. Security Council but took no step that might stay his hand. As whenever a president pulls the trigger, Clinton's top national security advisers supported him. But majors and lieutenant colonels at the Pentagon, whose staff work undergirds any military intervention, are, in the words of a senior officer, '200 percent opposed. They disagree fundamentally.' They know the attack on Iraq was planned long before Butler's report and consider it politically motivated. U.N. VIOLATIONS PROP WAS A CLINTON-SCRIPTED PROP According to Rowan
Re: Bitter Fruit
In a hurry to leave and hit send with some obvious spelling and grammar mistakes - sorry. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bitter Fruit
. Thus, one of the leading countries arguing against the war was the source of the most infamous mistatement by Bush. The UK to this day refuses to state where this intel came from and pretty much everyone agrees the ultimate source is the forgeries in Italy. Speaking of forgeries - what was asst. NSA Hadley doing there at that time and refusing to report his contacts to the CIA? I'd submit that Bush didn't lie in the sense that he knew X was true, but said Y. He stated the truth, as he saw it. There was a belief, in the administration, that the CIA had a tremendous bias towards equivicating on data. They missed the fall of the Berlin wall. They missed India's and Pakistan's atomic bombs. From the administration's point of view, there were a lot of nervous Nellies in the CIA, unwilling to draw reasonable conclusions. The Cheney group, the WHIG group, and the Rendon PR agency were all working on selling a war Lies or truth didn't matter. The more threatening sounding the better. Rather Bush knew he was wrong and/or lying is unclear, he does not admit to mistakes or lies. We were misled into war by people to whom the actual truth of things didn't matter is a better way of putting it. Take, for example, the big yellowcake issue. This was seized upon as something to scare the American people as the only warning we would get was a mushroom cloud. Disregarding everything else, yellowcake was a non-issue. Saddam already had 500 tons of the stuff and we and the UN inspectors didn't care. Yellowcake uranium only becomes weapons grade after over a year of processing in very expensive and hard to conceal extensive nuclear weapon facilities. The UN inspectors left Saddam's yellowcake in the cans it came in and checked to see if they were still there once a year. Now Cheney was repeatedly lying. He even has been forced to admit to several. A tremendous amount of pressure was put on CIA analysts, as some have stated, to agree with Cheney. Cheney and Rumsfeld were part of the group going back to Reagan who always took the worst case scenarios and exaggerated that. Cheney had produced a separate paper on the Russian nuclear threat because they didn't believe the CIA which was laughed away while Reagan's was in office. It later turned out the CIA had overestimated the Russian numbers. And Cheney and the warhawks thought those were too low. Did they believe the CIA on Iraq? With Cheney who can say but experienced news reporters and Washington analysts should have had their doubts about Cheney and Rumsfeld and the pro-war gang more publicized given their previous exaggerations. Some in the CIA foresaw the fall of the Berlin Wall, some analysts pointed to likely nuclear weapons production by India and Pakistan. There is a political layer at the top of the CIA that establishes conventional wisdom in tune with the politics of the time. We know that this isn't true. At the time, I faulted Bush for going from have significant evidence for to knowing. I faulted him for overstating the immediacy of the problem. It's a difficulty I've seen in management at companies that I've worked for...they organize the data around what they already know. One of the reasons I am focusing on this is that our best hope for staying out of this type of trap, whatever our viewpoints are, is to use as much rigor as we can to determine the factsand then apply models to those facts. Bush is the bad CEO president - he provides goals and does PR and has no idea of the real issues. He is only responsive to his board of directors - the big GOP contributors. This was more a politically expedient war to bolster the US economy (more people employed and more wealth created and maintained in the US through defence contracts than any other country on the planet). The general consensus among ecconomists that I've seen is that, given the deficits, the war was a net drag on the ecconomy. Clearly, spending the same money on infrastructure would pay far better dividends than buying things that get blown up. The people pushing this war don't care much about the American economy as a whole - their biggest friends are in the defense-and oil related industries. This is a profiteers war. We now spend much more than the rest of the world put together on defense. Defense, like insurance and security and lawyers, is not a wealth producing sector for the American people as a whole. They are big political contributor sectors. I'll go ahead and discuss your second point later. But, I wanted to do this based on a set of understandings. If you have data to counter my arguements, I'd be interested in seeing itfor the reasons I've listed above. Dan M. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming
Re: Bitter Fruit
On 11/19/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There were sources of information that did not originate with US intelligence. Other countries had their own intelligence services. NATO countries shared basic intelligence, not just intelligence after it was filtered by Bush et. al. The conclusion of the French, the Germans, the Russians, etc. was that Hussein probably had WMD, but that he posed no imminent threat. IIRC, the conclusion on his nuclear program was that he was likely to be 10 years or so away from an A-bomb. That is a fair statement - most intel agencies believed he had limited chemical agents. FRANCE: President Jacques Chirac: France is not pacifist. We are not anti-American either. We are not just going to use our veto to nag and annoy the U.S. But we just feel that there is another option, another way, a less dramatic way than war, and that we have to go down that path. And we should pursue it until we have come to a dead end, but that is not the case yet. [CNN, 3/17/03] GERMANY: Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer: The Security Council is now meeting for the third time within a month at ministerial level to discuss the Iraq crisis. This shows the urgency we attach to the disarmament of Iraq and to the threat of war. … Are we really in a situation that absolutely necessitates the 'ultima ratio', the very last resort? I think not, because the peaceful means are far from exhausted. [Statement by Fischer to Security Council, 3/7/03] RUSSIA: Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov: What is really in the genuine interests of the world community? Continuing the albeit difficult but clearly fruitful results of the inspectors' work, or resorting to force, which inevitably will result in enormous loss of life and is fraught with serious and unpredictable consequences for regional and international stability? It is our deep conviction that the possibilities for disarming Iraq through political means do exist. And they really exist. And this cannot but be acknowledged. [Statement by Ivanov, 3/7/03] CHINA: Foreign Minister Tang Jiaxuan: We believe that as long as we stick to the road of political settlement, the goal of destroying Iraq's WMD could still be obtained. Resolution 1441 did not come by easily. Given the current situation, we need resolve and determination, and more importantly, patience and wisdom. [Statement by Jiaxuan, 3/7/03] 64% - Percentage of Americans who believe the Bush administration generally misleads the American public on current issues to achieve its own ends. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Association with PNAC
I am not sure I view this as idealism. It seems more of an excuse to increase military spending and carry a big stick and a big chip on the shoulder - perhaps the ultimate pragmatists. Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences: • we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future; • we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values; • we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad; • we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles. On 11/23/05, Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:52:27 -0600, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, if they had worked for the think tank, did significant fund raising for that think tank, wrote papers put out by the think tank, then the association would be stronger, and may reflect a change in their philosophy. But, I really have a hard time picturing Rumsfeld or Cheney as starry-eyed idealists. :-) Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wofowitz and Jeb Bush were founding members and signitors of its statement of principals . How strong do you need the association to be? http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm -- Doug -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Re: Bush claim revives al-Jazeera bombing fears
I often think of Scudder these days. In reading *Why Hitler Came to Power* by Theodore Abel, a sociological study based on 600 autobiographies of members of the Nazi party published in 1938, I found differences between Germany in '35 and USA in 2005. Bush isn't quite as idealized as Germany's perpetual leader and the ideal of a Democratic Republic is not denigrated as much by America's radical rollback party. To say that democracy is praised and Bush isn't idealized by the right would be incorrect. US public schools present history as the stories of great leaders which is not a good thing at all and partially explains the idealization of our temporary political leaders and presidents. Spider Robinson - I've delivered the novel VARIABLE STAR by Robert A. Heinlein and Spider Robinson to editor Pat LoBrutto at Tor Books, more than two weeks before deadline; hardcover publication is scheduled for October 2006. Based on an outline Robert created in November 1955... -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Re: Bush claim revives al-Jazeera bombing fears
The fact that the community the Air Force Academy is located in is now also the training center for the new religious right bend on dominating American politics is also worrying. http://www.harpers.org/SoldiersOfChrist.html http://www.harpers.org/FeelingTheHate.html On 11/25/05, David Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heinlein was no leftist, any more than he was a right-winger. He was pro-future, pro-individualist. He often mentions a preference for market solutions to problems... but has nothing against a compassionate and rich society providing basic needs in a socialist manner. See BEYOND THIS HORIZON. The Scudder thing is becoming blatantly worrisome. Especially as 1/3 of the House of Representatives now appoints cadets to all three military academies whose sole common attribute is apocalyptic religious zealotry. That's a third of the new members of the officer corps. We have reasons for fear.-- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled. -Cicero. 106-43 B.C. Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest - http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mindless and Heartless
Woolsey and I [that is, Lind himself] were drawn). [20] [edit] Relationship with other types of U.S. conservatism The traditional conservative Claes Ryn has developed the critique that neoconservatives are actually what he calls a variety of neo-Jacobins. True conservatives deny the existence of a universal political and economic philosophy and model that is suitable for all societies and cultures, and believe that a society's institutions should be adjusted to suit its culture. Neo-Jacobins in contrast are attached in the end to ahistorical, supranational principles that they believe should supplant the traditions of particular societies. The new Jacobins see themselves as on the side of right and fighting evil and are not prone to respecting or looking for common ground with countries that do not share their democratic preferences. (Ryn 2003: 387) [Neo-Jacobinism] regards America as founded on universal principles and assigns to the United States the role of supervising the remaking of the world. Its adherents have the intense dogmatic commitment of true believers and are highly prone to moralistic rhetoric. They demand, among other things, moral clarity in dealing with regimes that stand in the way of America's universal purpose. They see themselves as champions of virtue. (p. 384). Thus, according to Ryn, neoconservatism is analogous to Bolshevism: in the same way that the Bolsheviks wanted to destroy established ways of life throughout the world to replace them with communism, the neoconservatives want to do the same, only imposing free-market capitalism and American-style liberal democracy instead of socialism. There is also conflict between neoconservatives and libertarian conservatives. Libertarian conservatives are distrustful of a large government and therefore regard neoconservative foreign policy ambitions with considerable distrust. There has been considerable conflict between neoconservatives and business conservatives in some areas. Neoconservatives tend to see China as a looming threat to the United States and argue for harsh policies to contain that threat. Business conservatives see China as a business opportunity and see a tough policy against China as opposed to their desires for trade and economic progress. Business conservatives also appear much less distrustful of international institutions. In fact, where China is concerned neoconservatives tend to find themselves more often in agreement with liberal Democrats than with business conservatives. Indeed, Americans for Democratic Action - widely regarded as an authority of sorts on liberalism by both the American left and right alike - credit Senators and members of the House of Representatives with casting a liberal vote if they oppose legislation that would treat China favorably in the realm of foreign trade and many other matters. The disputes over Israel and domestic policies have contributed to a sharp conflict over the years with paleoconservatives, whose very name was taken as a rebuke to their neo brethren. There are many personal issues but effectively the paleoconservatives view the neoconservatives as interlopers who deviate from the traditional conservative agenda on issues as diverse as states' rights, free trade, immigration, isolationism, the welfare state, and even abortion and homosexuality. All of this leads to their conservative label being questioned. On 8/18/05, Andrew Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just read all of Zimmy's posts in this thread and couldn't find any statement which could be construed to mean that the only reason Perle and Wolfie get attention/are known to people is because they are Jews. So, yes, I would like if you could point out the relevant portions of his mails. My point is that the neocon movement began and is still identified as a jewish movement. Historically it was explicitly Jewish; a reaction to jewish liberals. So when people talk about Wolfowitz and Pearle there is this wink wink nudge nudge don't you know subtext that they are jews Geez hang on a cotton picking minute, who was the one going on about Jewish conspiracy theories being a lot of crap... and now you are saying there is one sorry, I am at a loss here. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Most Libertarians don't realize the loss of liberty that occurs from concentrations of power except when that power is government. Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Those who do not critique his theory, are doomed to repeat it......
Replying to something or orther: GARY DENTON! using the *F* word again (Fundamentalist :#) Get stats - American Religious Landscapes and Political Attitudes Today http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=55 Get definitions - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Fundamentalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecostalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Widely different reports of prison rape between UK and US
From my blog I had a link to a London commentary: How Blair's War on Terror differs from Bush's Britain follows the law. Almost every significant aspect of the investigation to bring the London terrorists to justice is the opposite of Bush's war on terrorism. From the leading role of Scotland Yard to the close cooperation with police, the British effort is at odds with the US operation directed by the Pentagon. Just months before the London bombings, upon visiting the Guantánamo prison, British counter-terrorism officials were startled that they did not meet with legal authorities, but only military personnel; they were also disturbed to learn that the information they gathered from the CIA was unknown to the FBI counter-terrorism team and that the British were the only channel between them. The British discovered that the New York City Police Department's counter-terrorism unit was more synchronised with its methods and aims than the US government was. Gary Denton Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest http://elemming2.blogspot.com On 8/4/05, Adrian Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4 Aug 2005, at 19:56, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: [snip] Perhaps apropos of the subject line, from CNN this morning concerning the recent bombings in London and showing some differences between UK and US reporting of crime in their own words: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/04/london.bombings.briefing/ index.html [snip] See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4746835.stm a mildly different perspective. Adrian -- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: War on Terror: RIP
The Daily Show had the perfect call out on Bush on that with reporting from Times Square that the War on Terror had been won. On 8/4/05, Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 4, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Dave Land wrote: On Aug 4, 2005, at 1:38 PM, Gary Denton wrote: Of course, now the Prez is back to calling it the War against Terror. That's a little surprising to me, because despite his linguistic disabilities, he seems to be pretty good message discipline. Maybe they decided not to change the term, after all. They may have realized that the liberal media recognized what they were trying to do and called them on it, and for once decide NOT to try to pull a fast one. (Holy shit, even I don't believe that.) -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
How pregnancy happens
http://tinyurl.com/bpsnd Flash media -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Designer Genes and Gulags
On 8/3/05, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I personally find most of Nature so complexly gorgeous as to suggest a Designer, let us consider merely one facet of anatomy: the proximity of the procreative organs to eliminatory orifices. Need I say more? There have been several recent articles about how it is obvious that humans are obviously not the object of Intelligent Design. Human heads are too big for a significant proportion of mothers and many other things. I heard one scientist who had examined all the values of all the scientific constants and sizes and types of subatomic particles, etc.stating it is clear the universe is optionally designed for black holes. All values are optimal for the production and growth of black holes. As a side effect of the optimal values for black holes pockets of the universe can produce life for a short time. As this a clear indication of Intelligent Design I suggest we figure out ways to ask a black hole why they are God's favorites. I suggest it would be reasonable to send those leading proponents of Intelligent Design into the nearest black hole. snip Debbi Four Feet Good, Two Feet Bad Maru Whoever said that size doesn't matter . . . . Hey, *I* didn't bring horses into this discussion... How about zebras? The male zebra I see on a regular basis is reasonably endowed Julia depending on where I am, if I hear hoofbeats, the logical thing is actually to think zebra :) clever A horse is a horse, of course, of course -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Designer Genes and Gulags
On 8/4/05, Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 4, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Gary Denton wrote: There have been several recent articles about how it is obvious that humans are obviously not the object of Intelligent Design. Human heads are too big for a significant proportion of mothers and many other things. One obvious case in point is eyes. They're extremely poorly engineered; actually only an incompetent moron could come up with a worse optical design. (And actually, *untrained* but reasonably intelligent high school students could come up with BETTER designs.) This suggests the intelligent designer is a complete cretin. There are many different designs for eyes in the living world showing that optical sight is a big advantage in surviving to reproduce. The branch humans developed on was not the optimal design but like most things was good enough. Teeth are another one. There are many many other ways to develop choppers that are *not* prone to cavities. Can't help you there at this time though someone might like to examine my genes - I am immune to cavities. Can I auction my genetic makeup, teeth design and biochemical balance in my mouth off I wonder? And cancer? Guess what: it develops *spontaneously*. That's shoddy workmanship in the DNA itself. Designed? Rght. Cancer has triggers and different likelihoods of response. Only idiots like Bush but into this crap. Bush contradicted his own science adviser. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf \-- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Widely different reports of prison rape between UK and US
I keep looking into this and every time somebody does an international report there are different results. There is a problem of people reporting crime and of definitions. For example: Homicide rates in the U.S. far exceed those in any other industrialized nations. For other violent crimes, rates in the U.S. are among the world's highest and substantially exceed rates in Canada, our nearest neighbor in terms of geography, culture, and crime reporting. Among 16 industrialized countries surveyed in 1988, the U.S. had the highest prevalence rates for serious sexual assaults and for all other assaults including threats of physical harm. (Understanding and Preventing Violence 1993) Someone at Lew Rockwell - a hard conservative/libertarian site, also came to much the same conclusion - the crime rate data is screwed up so you can't get conclusive results on how gun ownership rates effect crime. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: War on Terror: RIP
Of course, now the Prez is back to calling it the War against Terror. Doesn't matter, I expect to hear about troop withdrawals before the midterm elections, everything with CheneyCo. is politics and Rove if not indicted will devote all policies toward supporting the GOP in Congress. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Gulags, Ghost Prisons and Torture
be taken for interrogation, where they would tell me what to say. They said if you say this story as we read it, you will just go to court as a witness and all this torture will stop. I eventually repeated what was read out to me. When I got to Morocco they said some big people in al-Qaida were talking about me. They talked about Jose Padilla and they said I was going to testify against him and big people. They named Khalid Sheikh Mohamed, Abu Zubaidah and Ibn Sheikh al-Libi [all senior al-Qaida leaders who are now in US custody]. It was hard to pin down the exact story because what they wanted changed from Morocco to when later I was in the Dark Prison [a detention centre in Kabul with windowless cells and American staff], to Bagram and again in Guantánamo Bay. They told me that I must plead guilty. I'd have to say I was an al-Qaida operations man, an ideas man. I kept insisting that I had only been in Afghanistan a short while. We don't care, was all they'd say. I was also questioned about my links with Britain. The interrogator told me: We have photos of people given to us by MI5. Do you know these? I realised that the British were sending questions to the Moroccans. I was at first surprised that the Brits were siding with the Americans. On August 6, I thought I was going to be transferred out of there [the prison]. They came in and cuffed my hands behind my back. But then three men came in with black masks. It seemed to go on for hours. I was in so much pain I'd fall to my knees. They'd pull me back up and hit me again. They'd kick me in my thighs as I got up. I vomited within the first few punches. I reallydidn't speak at all though. I didn't have the energy or will to say anything. I just wanted for it to end. After that, there was to be no more first-class treatment. No bathroom. No food for a while. During September-October 2002, I was taken in a car to another place. The room was bigger, it had its own toilet, and a window which was opaque. They gave me a toothbrush and Colgate toothpaste. I was allowed to recover from the scalpel for about two weeks, and the guards said nothing about it. Then they cuffed me and put earphones on my head. They played hip-hop and rock music, very loud. I remember they played Meat Loaf and Aerosmith over and over. A couple of days later they did the same thing. Same music. For 18 months, there was not one night when I could sleep well. Sometimes I would go 48 hours without sleep. At night, they would bang the metal doors, bang the flap on the door, or just come right in. They continued with two or three interrogations a month. They weren't really interrogations, more like training me what to say. The interrogator told me what was going on. We're going to change your brain, he said. I suffered the razor treatment about once a month for the remaining time I was in Morocco, even after I'd agreed to confess to whatever they wanted to hear. It became like a routine. They'd come in, tie me up, spend maybe an hour doing it. They never spoke to me. Then they'd tip some kind of liquid on me - the burning was like grasping a hot coal. The cutting, that was one kind of pain. The burning, that was another. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1540549,00.html Note that the torturers are sometimes trying to build a case against US citizen Padilla, held over 3 years without charges. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin-L RSS
I am exploring a news page with RSS feeds using My Yahoo after not liking several readers. http://my.yahoo.com/index.html -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My address to the Spiritual Activism Conference
Wow, is this availanle for posting elsewhere? On 7/28/05, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the talk I gave last Friday. It was interrupted by a very long standing ovation after the first sentence of the second paragraph. I take that applause not for myself, but for the spirit of self-sacrifice and determination that led Wes and so many others to give their lives for their friends, a spirit that is thriving in many of the rest of us. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My address to the Spiritual Activism Conference
Of course, I shouldn't be posting at that time. On 7/29/05, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 04:27:30 -0500, Gary Denton wrote Wow, is this availanle for posting elsewhere? Sure... -- Nick Arnett -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My address to the Spiritual Activism Conference
Posted - I think I caught all the runtogether words. http://elemming2.blogspot.com/2005_07_29_elemming2_archive.html#112267173474936807 On 7/29/05, Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, I shouldn't be posting at that time. On 7/29/05, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 04:27:30 -0500, Gary Denton wrote Wow, is this availanle for posting elsewhere? Sure... -- Nick Arnett -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What interrogation techniques are ethical and practical?
Relevent to this thread:
Ahmed Ressam, the Algerian who was arrested in 1999 with materials and a
plan to bomb LAX airport on New Year's 2000, was sentenced today to 22 years
in prison
http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_072705WABressamSW.14d92a55.html
http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_072705WABressamSW.14d92a55.html
. He was useful for a while in providing information, but has refused to
assist the US any further in recent months.
It's important that he was caught by our border guards (yay us!), and that
he's locked away. But what's more important is the way his trial was
handled. He is no less a terrorist than Mohamed Atta - just less successful.
And he's much more of a terrorist than Jose Padilla US citizen 3+ years
without charges, who has not and likely will not see an attorney because
he's an enemy combatant. 9/11 didn't change who or what these people are,
it only seemed to change who we are, and that makes me sad.
It seems to make the judge in the Ressam case sad, too. His incredibly
powerful words while sentencing Ressam are below, with no further comment
from me.
The message I would hope to convey in today's sentencing is twofold:
First, that we have the resolve in this country to deal with the subject of
terrorism and people who engage in it should be prepared to sacrifice a
major portion of their life in confinement.
Secondly, though, I would like to convey the message that our system works.
We did not need to use a secret military tribunal, or detain the defendant
indefinitely as an enemy combatant, or deny him the right to counsel, or
invoke any proceedings beyond those guaranteed by or contrary to the United
States Constitution.
I would suggest that the message to the world from today's sentencing is
that our courts have not abandoned our commitment to the ideals that set our
nation apart. We can deal with the threats to our national security without
denying the accused fundamental constitutional protections.
Despite the fact that Mr. Ressam is not an American citizen and despite the
fact that he entered this country intent upon killing American citizens, he
received an effective, vigorous defense, and the opportunity to have his
guilt or innocence determined by a jury of 12 ordinary citizens.
*Most importantly, all of this occurred in the sunlight of a public trial.
There were no secret proceedings, no indefinite detention, no denial of
counsel.* {emphasis switzer's}
The tragedy of September 11th shook our sense of security and made us
realize that we, too, are vulnerable to acts of terrorism.
Unfortunately, some believe that this threat renders our Constitution
obsolete. This is a Constitution for which men and women have died and
continue to die and which has made us a model among nations. If that view is
allowed to prevail, the terrorists will have won.
It is my sworn duty, and as long as there is breath in my body I'll perform
it, to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. We will be
in recess.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/27/151137/048
On 7/11/05, Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If torture were used on people who have a real
chance of providing a lead in a genuine ticking
bomb circumstance, by those who _know_ both quoted
conditions are true, it would meet my 'practical
idealism' requirements. I also factor in 'what would
*I* be willing to do' in that situation -- is the
potential payoff (in terms of saving lives) worth the
stain on my soul (or spirit, or heart, for the List's
Unsouled ;} )? I am reasonably sure that I am
capable of killing or even torture if I was certain
(1)that lives would be saved (2)the targeted person
was not an innocent (to the best of my knowledge)
(3)the conditions in quotes above exist. I am quite
sure that I'd vomit to the point of bleeding dry
heaves afterward, and have nightmares for a very long
time, if not the rest of my life.
and she replied
The season finale of 24 addressed just exactly that
scenario (nuclear device stolen by terrorists, one of
whom Jack has his hands on -- and tortures).
The interesting thing about *24* is that torture was used in several
instances for the reasons Dan believes it could be justified but really did
not give accurate information. There are many problems with torture and once
you justify it for one case you will find it used for a great many. (I
finished moving out - not really moved in yet.)
--
Gary Denton
http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006
Easter Lemming Blogs
http://elemming.blogspot.com
http://elemming2.blogspot.com
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JAG memos opposing interrogation guidelines released
The memos are extraordinary. They are written by JAGs from the Air Force, Navy, Army and Marines. As Senator Graham put it on Monday, these folks are not from the ACLU. These are not from people who are soft on terrorism, who want to coddle foreign terrorists. These are all professional military lawyers who have dedicated their lives, with 20-plus year careers, to serving the men and women in uniform and protecting their Nation. They were giving a warning shot across the bow of the policymakers that there are certain corners you cannot afford to cut because you will wind up meeting yourself. A bit of context, for those who may not have been following my (perhaps interminable) series of posts: From the mid-1960's until February 2002, military interrogations were governed by the (relatively) non-coercive techniques described in Army Field Manual 34-52, which (in theory) describes only techniques that would be permissible to use on POWs under the Geneva Conventions, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and other federal laws. Generations of military personnel were trained in the specifics of Geneva and the Field Manual. In February 2002, however, the President determined that the principles of the Geneva Conventions would apply to detainees at GTMO only to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, thereby deviating from more than a half-century of U.S. policy and practice of adhering to at least the minimum protections afforded under Common Article 3 of the Conventions (which forbids outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment). And in late 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld approved for use, on at least one GTMO detainee, several interrogation techniques that went beyond what the Field Manual had recognized. General Miller and others at GTMO construed this authorization to permit treatment that the military itself now concedes is abusive and degrading, but which the military to this day insists does not result in any violation of a U.S. law or policy. In December 2002, career attorneys and others at the Pentagon raised serious legal, policy and practical objections to what the Secretary had approved, and, heeding the outcries, in January 2003 Rumsfeld suspended his approvals and ordered a review of military interrogation techniques by a DoD Working Group. As is now confirmed by these JAG memos, from the outset the Working Group's extensive legal analysis was crafted almost entirely by the Office of Legal Counsel at the Department of Justice—by Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Yoo, in particular—and it largely tracked the extremely, shall we say, novel and forward-looking analysis contained in the now-notorious OLC Torture Memo of August 1, 2002. In particular, these memos eloquently warn of the grave harms that could result from such a radical shift in policies and legal understandings—harms not only to the prospects for nation's efforts to stop terrorism, but also to military interrogators and officers who could face domestic and international prosecution for engaging in such conduct, and, most importantly, to U.S. forces who are themselves detained in this and future conflicts. (One of the memos stresses, almost despairingly, that because OLC does not represent the services, concern for servicemembers is not reflected in their opinion.) These memos reveal the JAGs as the real heroes of this story. Indeed, it's uncanny how prescient these memos were. As Senator Graham said on Monday, the JAGS were telling the policymakers: If you go down this road, you are going to get your own people in trouble. You are on a slippery slope. You are going to lose the moral high ground. This was 2003. And they were absolutely right. ... If the Yoo analysis were truly a repudiated thing of the past, an unfortunate historical anomaly, why would the Administration hold up—and threaten to veto—the vitally important defense authorization bill, for fear of being saddled with extremely modest requirements that, as the JAGs explain, had served us very well for many decades? Much more including the text of six memos. http://balkin.blogspot.com/2005/07/heroes-of-pentagons-interrogation.html Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Clouds
http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/june2004hastings-mammatus.html -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are You a Science-Fiction Scholar? (Quiz)
I really need to get a life - 11/11. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Prisoner Status
. This is more like Vietnam with Bush as LBJ, launching an unwinable war based on lies and a misunderstanding of the enemy while also reward friends at home with his tax policies and destroying the economy in the process. Do you think Iraq was and is worth what it costs? On the two Muslim statements both are what I expect. The first was echoed by another Muslim leader on Frontline. The second, well, I see American religious fanaticism expressed in the same terms by abortion bombers, etc. There is a reporter in America that has been writing on the rise of fascism and the right religious fanatics for some time. He also notes some cogent words on this war on terrorism by a former FBI agent. http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/06/whos-weak-on-terror.html On 7/12/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:snip I'm thinking about it, and I still have to put forth my #3, so I'll just add three opinions (or maybe two opinions and one fact to the mix. The first is a commentary by a Muslim peer on the present situation in Britain, after it was found out that the terrorists were British citizens: http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article298478.ece The second is a statement by Van Gogh's killer at his sentencing. It probably shouldn't be taken as fully representative of the viewpoint of people who join AQ, or the British bombers, but it is a data point. http://tinyurl.com/8e93q The third is the opinion of a former CIA agent: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/771uukif.asp -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Hunting of Liberals
David Neiwert had a review of the propaganda campaign being waged against liberals from the White House on down. Notably he finds related propaganda campaigns earlier in our nation's history and even very similar joke signs and where they led.. http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/06/hunting-of-liberals.html Noted this after rechecking his site after replying to Dan on the war against terrorism. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: They were For it before they were Against it
Jeanne D'Arc discovered that the Cardinal developed this Op-Ed with the Discovery Institute - the Protestant Creationist unthink tank that is pushing Intelligent Design. One of the comments mentions an internal document that was leaked from the Discovery Institute that advocated using ID as a wedge issue and getting major religious groups to start attacking evolution in favor of ID. http://bodyandsoul.typepad.com/blog/2005/07/come_back_siste.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/wedge.html Cardinal was simply used by the fundies as part of their campaign to turn the US into an ignorant and God-fearing nation. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Local car heat-related child death
rights are not the same as civil rights-- but I can guarantee you we are going in the wrong direction. I can not hide my skin color. In fact, in most of the South, people as pink as Rep. Wayne Smith were still Black by law if they had a great grandparent who was African. I was unable to attend an integrated and equally funded school until I got my Master of Laws degree. There were separate and unequal facilities for nearly everything. I got second-hand textbooks even worse than the kind you're trying to pass off on every public school student next year. I had to ride to school on the back of the bus. I had to quench my thirst from filthy coloreds-only drinking fountains. I had to enter restaurants from the kitchen door. I was banned from entering most public accommodations, even from serving on a jury. I had to live with the fear that getting too uppity could get you killed --- or worse. I know what third-class citizenship feels like. In my first term, one of my colleagues walked up and down this aisle muttering about how Nigras should be back in the field picking cotton instead of picking out committees. So, I have to wonder about Rep. Chisum's 3/5 of a person amendment. Some of you folks hid behind your Bible then, too, to justify your culturalprejudices, your denial of liberty, and your gunpoint robbery of human dignity. We have worked hard at putting our prejudices against homosexuals in law. We have denied them basic job protections. We have denied them and their children freedom from bullying and harassment at school. We have tried to criminalize their very existence. But, we have also absolved them of all family duties and responsibilities: to care for and support their spouses and children, to count their family's assets in determining public assistance, to obtain health insurance for dependents, to make end-of-life or necessary medical decisions for their life partners--- sometimes even to visit in the hospital, even to defend our own country. And then, we can stand on our two hind legs and proclaim, See, I told you homosexual families are unstable. And nearly every one of you on this Floor has a homosexual in their extended families. Some of you have shunned and isolated these family members. Some of you, even some of the joint coauthors, have embraced them within your own family for the essence of Christianity is love. Yet,you are now poised to constitutionalize discrimination against a particular class of people. I thought we would be debating real issues: education, health care for kids, teacher's health insurance, health care for the elderly, protecting survivors of sexual assault, protecting the pensions of seniors in nursing homes. I thought we would be debating economic development, property tax relief, protecting seniors pensions and stem cell research, to save lives of Texans who are waiting for a more abundant life. Instead we are wasting this body's time with this political stunt that is nothing more than constitutionalizing discrimination. The prejudices exhibited by members of this body disgust me. Last week, Republicans used a political wedge issue to pull kids-- sweet little vulnerable kids-- out of the homes of loving parents and put them back in a state orphanage just because those parents are gay. That's disgusting. Today, we are telling homosexuals that just like people of my ilk, when I was a small child; they too are second class citizens. I have listened to all the arguments. I have listened to all of the crap. Mr. Chisum, is a person who I consider my good friend and revere. But, I want you to know that this amendment is blowing smoke to fuel the hell-fire flames of bigotry. You are trying to protect your constituents from danger. This amendment is a CYB amendment for you to go home and talk about. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Prisoner Status
On 7/11/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The second question I wish to address is: 2) How does one handle the status of prisoners taken in ongoing hostilities if they are POWs? if they are unlawful combattants, but there is not enough evidence to convict them of a specific war crime? (BTW, I see that I didn't finish writing the three questions down: the third question is: 3) How does one determine the most likely possibility and the range of possibilities from conflicting reports from conflicting sources?) Let's assume that Afghanistan has settled down, but AQ is still active elsewhere. Then things become more problematic. In a real sense, there is now a global insurgency being fought against the present world order. Given that, one can make an argument for not releasing members of AQ to go back to AQ until the war is over. The trick, I think, is to put bounds on how long one keeps unlawful combatants prisoner without chargeand under what circumstances they can be considered prisoners of war and thus confinable until the war is over. These are tough questions that deserve very careful consideration. I think the administration is right in believing that we are on new ground here. Their solution, simplify the problem by saying GWB is free to do as he will without regard for the consequences is disastrous. It would be a bad policy for a competent administration, but since this is not a competent administration, it is a nightmare. But, the fact that the administration has blown their handling of this question through incompetence shouldn't obscure the fact that AQ poses a problem that was not under consideration 50+ years ago. I was going to disagree with you and discuss historical parallels - anarchists just over a hundred years ago, numerous terrorist organizations fighting to create, expand or change a state but... I have decided to support your questions. How do we treat terrorists who are determined to set bombs or otherwise attack people whose governments support what the terrorists feel are deadly and repressive actions in the Middle East? With lame-duck Bush increasingly irrelevant to this problem maybe it is time for a fresh start on this issue. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: They were For it before they were Against it
On 7/10/05, KZK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.cathnews.com/news/507/56.php The influential Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Vienna has suggested that belief in evolution as accepted by science today may be incompatible with Catholic faith. This disagrees with previous Catholic Church doctrine regarding evolution. For decades children going to Catholic School had been taught there is no incompatibility between Darwin and Church teachings. A new conservative Pope and now Cardinals following the lead of Protestant fundamentalists - are we headed for a new mildly Darkish Age - trying to head off another long exchange about the degree of darkness the last one was? -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: There's a reason it's called a cursor
On 7/11/05, Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I. B. M., U. B. M., We All B. M. For I. B. M. Maru -- Ronn! :) Harlie is a lot older than One now - 33 years since copyright. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags L3
Just as note that while I did do a lot of thought and research into it it was posted at nearly 5 AM and there are some things I would not have written or at least written better with more sleep. Gary D ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
My Neighbor's In A Military Detention Facility In Iraq
Here is a story from PolySciFI Blog - http://polyscifi.blogspot.com/2005/07/my-neighbors-in-military-detention.html Today the New York Times has another great Tim Golden story on U.S. detainment facilities in Iraq. This time, it's not about torture. It's about a guy who lives about a block west of Adam, and maybe a half-mile from me; a documentary filmmaker named Cyrus Kar. Or lived, I should say; nobody knows where he is now, except our government, and they're not saying anything. Kar is a 44-year-old naturalized American citizen who was shooting a documentary about Cyrus the Great. He'd already shot 50 hours of interview footage, and visited Afghanistan and Tajikstan. For his big finale, he was shooting in Babylon. Or that was the plan, anyway; he was in the wrong taxi at the wrong time and since May 17th, he's been held in various U.S. run detainment facilities. It seems pretty clear that he has no ties to the insurgency (he served in the Navy in the 80s). He hasn't been given a lawyer or a hearing, although he is a U.S. citizen. It's worth noting that Kar's family learned he had been detained only after a Red Cross worker, who had visited him in prison, called them. And he hasn't done anything. Money quote: Mr. Kar's relatives and their lawyers said they had been utterly stymied in trying to learn his fate despite repeated inquires at the Defense Department, the Justice Department, the State Department, the allied forces in Iraq and the offices of two United States senators. The relatives said the only detailed information they had received came from one of the F.B.I. agents who searched Mr. Kar's apartment in the Silver Lake neighborhood of Los Angeles on May 23. They said that after analyzing his personal files, computer drives and other materials, the agent, John D. Wilson, returned the seized items on June 14 and assured them that that the F.B.I. had found no reason to suspect Mr. Kar. He's cleared, one of Mr. Kar's aunts, Parvin Modarress of Los Angeles, quoted Mr. Wilson as saying, They were waiting for a lie-detector machine, but they finally got it. He passed the lie-detector test. The New York Times mentioned his Silver Lake apartment, so I looked him up on Zabasearch. This guy lives a block west of Hillhurst Avenue, right in the middle of Silver Lake. We probably shop at the same grocery store. I'm sure I've walked by him on the street more than once (Silver Lake is one of the few neighborhoods in Los Angeles where people do a lot of walking). He's obsessed with making a movie, just like I am. He's done more for his country (re: the Navy) than I probably ever will. And although he was cleared on June 14, as of today, nobody knows where he is or how much longer we're planning on holding him. This is one of our own citizens; somebody like me, but better (hell, he's got somebody paying for post production on one of his projects!) You can agree or disagree with me as to whether U.S. overseas detainment facilities are a gigantic, soul-destroying mess right now. You can agree or disagree that torture is sytemic there (for what it's worth, Kar claimed to have been tortured in a brief phone call home). But I think we should agree to let Kar out of prison, let him finish his movie, and bring him back to Silver Lake. Perhaps we could pay for post-production on his movie, a digital transfer, and a few nice prints for the festival circuit. Although if I were Kar, I'd make a documentary about the last few months, instead. Read the whole thing. (NYTimes) http://nytimes.com/2005/07/06/international/middleeast/06detain.html -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Stross: Accelerando
On 7/8/05, Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not for lack of trying. When I tried to register, however, I received the following extra-helpful message: quote Brin-l-books User Verification Something or other mysteriously failed. Try again later. int(999) /quote I was never able to register either. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags L3
On 7/1/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Answering your thoughtful post. Then it would seem that all AQ has to answer is name rank and serial number, right? I don't think so. What is prohibited is usually considered, based on article 130: grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, compelling a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of the hostile Power, or willfully depriving a prisoner of war of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed in this Convention. That would mean things that are not torture and is not causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health might be permitted depending on how far you go. A lot of the debate within officials with long experience and the new political appointees based on leaked memos are explorations as to what extent techniques like water boarding (drowning without killing) and sleep deprivation and long periods of times in uncomfortable positions (that actually do cause long-term damage) and techniques that are extremely painful but leave no permanent damage (electrodes anyone?) are lawful. Do we really want to explore this? You want to interrogate someone - should you have the guards rough up the prisoners for several days before the interrogation as long as they leave no permanent physical scars? Several of the people released after over a year and never charged have long-term disabilities now. No carrot, no stick at all, is the way I read the Geneva Conventions on POWs. Is that what you think should be the case? I think that must come from the controversial Article 17 - No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind. This does not preclude classic plea bargaining - that is, the offer of leniency in return for cooperation - or other incentives. Plea bargaining and related incentives has been used repeatedly with success to induce cooperation from members of other violent criminal enterprises such as the Mafia or drug traffickers. Unpleasant results... I am opposed to using torture in the name of democracy. I am wondering if you are minimizing or are truly unaware of some of the things classified under unpleasant results which in places outside of Gitmo have included torturing people to death. No, I'm not doing that. I'm trying to obtain first and understanding of what has been going on, and then trying to form a reasonable opinion about it. I don't think that when the Geneva Convention talks about unpleasantness that they were using a euphemism for torture. I took it as, well, unpleasantness. For example, you could not interrupt the sleep of people who aren't talking. You couldn't change their diet from a tasty one to one that is nutritious, follows their dietary laws, but is rather tasteless and bland. You couldn't impose solitary confinement for refusing to talk. You couldn't shine lights in their cell. 1st - I think historically article 17 has not been interpreted strictly. 2nd - Who do you want to cause unpleasantness to and why? 3rd To what degree do you want to cause unpleasantness? 4th - Is there any evidence this unpleasantness is effective? 5th Aren't there undesirable consequence to using these techniques, in the reliability of information obtained, in brutalizing our guards as well as the prisoners, in our standards of decency, in the world's opinion of us, in God's eyes? 6th A long history of research in torture and brutal interrogation techniques shows it is not effective. What might be called plea bargaining deals and a long process of extracting information in a relatively cooperative atmosphere has been shown to be much more accurate. Basically, it appears that prisoners should be as well treated as one's own soldiers until the war is over. You can't even refuse them cigarettes as a means of getting them to talk. That's what I'm referring to when I write of unpleasantness. And where did you find this interpretation? I eventually found article 17 in looking through the articles. The killing of prisoners who are not engaged in life threatening activities (e.g. an armed prison riot) is not acceptable. Torturing prisoners is not acceptable; particularly ones that are not likely to have information that can save hundreds or thousands of lives. The actions depicted in the Time report looks to be on the borderline to me. That's why I copied the details of that and asked
Re: Best Comicbook Movie, was Re: Batman [was:] Fare thee well my beautiful Vulcan, was RE: Star Trek signs off tonight....
On 7/4/05, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4 Jul 2005, at 11:56 pm, Leonard Matusik wrote: On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 02:21:08 -0500 Gary Denton wrote: Best comic book movie - Spiderman 2. best??? Including Blade2?? Daredevil?? Maybe if Peter Parker would take up drinking PS:was this agruement allready posted? What about Barbarella and Hellboy? I will stand by my opinion that Spiderman 2 was the best. I will admit that Barbarella and SpiderBabe our good in their own way with things that most comic book adaptations lack. - -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
It has been obvious for decades that the colonization of the Americas occurred much earlier than supposed and did not involve walking down an ice-free corridor in Alaska. The problem with any new theory is old professors who made their reputations on the old theories and control research grants and publication usually until they die off. The softer sciences are worse in this way as it takes longer to build up a body of indisputable proofs that the currently taught theory is wrong. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Plot Holes: War of the worlds - SPOILERS
On 7/3/05, Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That the best actor in the movie would be about 9? War of the Worlds Correction - worthy of a best supporting actress nomination Dakota Fanning is 11. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 23-25, 2006 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Plot Holes: War of the worlds - SPOILERS
SPoilers - . . . . . Now that I have seen the movie I looked at this thread. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . While there was speculation that the machines were buried hundreds or even millions of years ago it is uninformed speculation in the movie. For a number of reasons I doubt this. After the movie a group of us was thinking that the machines were likely built by nanomachines and that could have been as recently as a few hours. The book version had the Martians fired from large cannon on Mars. The Pal movie version I believe had rockets from Mars. In that movie version the shapes of the machines was just a much larger form of the eye apparatus at the end of the metal tentacle that searches the house. There were several homages in the film. I always thought that the Pal alien war machines were powered by anti-gravity and were not tripods but someone else in the group said the lights under the craft gave the impression of three legs. Who knew --- That a large EMP would knock out all electrical equipment except for video cameras? That lightning type discharges could be used as transporter devices? That creatures far in advance of us that can launch a massive worldwide invasion utterly defeating our military and are evidently using human and mammalian blood for unknown evil purposes and can even start establishing an alien ecosystem in a matter of days would give no thought to Earth microorganisms? That the best actor in the movie would be about 9? I dislike Tom Cruise but his character was not likeable particularly in the beginning of the movie so that was OK. On 7/2/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spoilers...you get the idea... -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Batman [was:] Fare thee well my beautiful Vulcan, was RE: Star Trek signs off tonight....
On 7/2/05, Martin Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/2/05, Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Notice how we get a different Batman for every decade, and the current one is said to be the best yet. Christian Bale? Who says? I for one do. Me and all. Not only is he a very good bat, he is the best Bruce Wayne by a mile. In our group there was some support for the idea he was the best Batman but not the best Bruce Wayne. I was not altogether fond of this movie - it suffers from the Wagnerian elitism Brin has written about that exists in some genre films. Still worth the $3 I paid. Best comic book movie - Spiderman 2. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Spielberg's Next Movie
On 7/2/05, Robert G. Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/01/movies/01spie.html?oref=login snip In the statement, Mr. Spielberg called the Munich attack - which was carried out by Black September, an arm of the P.L.O.'s Fatah organization - and the Israeli response a defining moment in the modern history of the Middle East. Mr. Spielberg's interest in the question of a civilized nation's proper response to terrorism deepened, aides said, after the 9/11 attacks, as Americans were grappling for the first time with similar issues - for instance, in each new lethal strike on a suspected terrorist leader by a C.I.A. Predator drone aircraft. In Mr. Kushner's script, people who have read it say, the Israeli assassins find themselves struggling to understand how their targets were chosen, whether they belonged on the hit list and, eventually, what, if anything, their killing would accomplish. What comes through here is the human dimension, said Mr. Ross, formerly the Middle East envoy for Mr. Clinton, who has advised the filmmakers on the screenplay and helped Mr. Spielberg reach out to officials in the region. You're contending with an enormously difficult set of challenges when you have to respond to a horrific act of terror. Not to respond sends a signal that actions are rewarded and the perpetrators can get away with it. But you have to take into account that your response may not achieve what you wish to achieve, and that it may have consequences for people in the mission. I would be interested in seeing this. Tonight at dinner I was talking to two people who both said they could not watch *Schindler's List*. One said it was too much a documentary of a horror she didn't want to see. The other said much the same thing in a more personal way - his grandparents met when his grandfather escaped a Franco concentration camp. the remaining inmates were transported away the next day and never seen again. Strange how much topics that begin with *War of the Worlds* and *Batman Begins* can veer, we ended by talking about how to stop a street project by harassing the government with temporary injunctions and how much you could do it without a lawyer. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: E-mail to Mrs. Graner
Is this original to you? I like it very much. While trying to Google similar words and beliefs I found a WIKI on Pashtunwali, the beliefs of some Sunni Muslims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunwali On 7/3/05, Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is not violence that creates freedom It is belief It is not words that creates freedom It is belief It is not governing that creates freedom It is belief It is not a person that creates freedom It is that person's belief It is not the warrior who creates freedom It is the fighters belief It is not the polititian who creates freedom It is the statesman's belief It is not the storyteller who creates freedom It is the teller's belief For those who truely believe in freedom Will walk the way of freedom And will equally share it With comrades and opponents For the walk of freedom Is not found at the point of a gun But in the spark of imagination in a mind And in the willingness to act to make it real And in the walk The walk of ones belief xponent I Believe Maru rob -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags L3
Dan, I will have to think about your reply more for a fuller answer. Right now I am convinced we are in the early stages of admitting the invasion was a tragic mistake and plunged us into an unwinable war. The issue of how we treat prisoners should be resolved to restore the good name of the United States while also protecting the U.S. from real terrorists. I will also have to reread the Time article. You do know that Time has a long history of presenting some foreign policy and intelligence information in ways that the CIA and other conservative policy leaders wanted out? Time Magazine was tied to the CIA and a loosely organized group that evolved into the neo-cons and had some of the closest editorial connections. In the 70's it came out that hundreds of US journalists were also on the payroll of the CIA. The opinion of the owners of much of the so called liberal media was expressed by Washington Post's owner Katharine Graham at CIA headquarters, There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows. She didn't admit to not only covering up but actively pushing a CIA story numerous times. On the Democrats lack of organized widely supported alternative plans - they have a much more complicated political job. Reeves editorial quoting Thomas Mann: Republicans have to defend a war that was very badly planned and is costing much more in blood and treasure than the public was led to believe. Democrats struggle to define and agree on alternative policy that doesn't simply write off the sacrifices already made by our armed forces and accept defeat. In other words, the die has been cast; we have crossed both the Tigris and the Euphrates. But if history is our guide, it will take six more years to declare peace with honor, one more time. As if most of us, Iraqis aside, did not already know that this war is over. We tried the impossible again, with the usual result -- and it will take time to craft a noble rationale for what we have done to ourselves. http://tinyurl.com/9ahgw or http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=123e=1u=/ucrr/20050624/cm_ucrr/timetablesixmoreyearsiniraq On 7/1/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a very thoughtful reply. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Hotel Lost Liberty
On 6/29/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/29/2005 2:59:57 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If a burglar is someone guilty of burglary, if a glutton is someone guilty of gluttony ... then God is an iron. -- Spider Robinson (1948 - ), Canadian science fiction writer.** **With more talent and less ego than Sawyer. Met Sawyer this past weekend - didn't seem more ego prone than most writers and I am very impressed with his Human/Hominid trilogy. News note if the UN behaved like the US: The UN today seized the island of Malta to dismantle it as it interfered with a direct shipping route to the Suez Canal. Vilyehm Apropos of Malta and large bureaucracies the recently defeated EU new Constitution had a protocol of understandings regarding Malta that had detailed breakdowns of handling Malta vacation properties of different values. The REAL EU PREAMBLE according to EU leftists - We the government bureaucrats and large businesses of the European Union in order to promote the general welfare and establish universal taxing and trade authorities hereby establish this Constitution and all agreements, protocols and understandings herein considered incorporated to ensure the blessings of lifetime jobs and increased profits to us the real rulers. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26, 2005 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 6/23/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: replying to me snip If they did not have a clear sign, recognizable at a distance, if they were determined to be AQ, then the US could say they didn't have a doubt and no tribunal was needed. That may be a bit lawyerly, but it seems to match the plain sense of article 5. I don't think that Bishop Berkley style doubts count, either. The administration correctly argues that AQ are not POWs. (I'm back from ApolloCon and recuperating.) Before getting to the clinchers let's check with some experts. The Administration is applying the wrong part of the Conventions. They have invoked the provisions for irregular combatants not under Article 4-1, but under Article 4-2. They are treating them as though they are guerrillas or partisans who were fighting for a party to the conflict. And that's wrong in my view, said Robert Goldman, professor of law and co-director of the Center for Human Rights and Humanitarian Law at the Washington College of Law, American University. I'm a bit confused as to what point he was making. That AQ was not party to the conflict with the US? I'd argue that they were the senior party and that the Taliban were the junior party...who harbored them and gave them a safe base from which to stage attacks. It's hard to say what particular action of the administration he is responding to. The administration has lumped previous Afghanistan government forces, narcotics traffickers, Iraqi soldiers, Iraqi insurgents, anti-American religious fanatics and AQ into one group - terrorists. We don't have the facts. We don't know to what extent these people had a proper command structure, wore some sort of distinguishing features and complied with the laws of armed conflict. We just don't know, said APV Rogers, OBE, a retired major general in the British Army and recognized expert on the laws of war. Who's we? I think it is reasonable to assume that that is a determination that can be made in the field of whether they had a distinguishing feature recognizable at a distance. If that is your requirement the most modern elements of the US Army, the different ranger and ranger type units, are not entitled to POW status. I believe he has a better grasp of the Geneva protocols as to what is a recognized military which does include more than uniforms. The Bush Administration, by contrast, is claiming that there is no doubt. In its view, neither Al Qaeda nor the Taliban are eligible for POW status because they did not wear uniforms or otherwise distinguish themselves from the civilian population of Afghanistan or conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war—an argument that is disputed by the majority of our experts. IIRC, they got back a legal review and grudgingly accepted that the Taliban probably qualified. It is not clear this grudging acceptance applies operationally, we are still shipping prisoners out to other states for torture and interrogation. Some of our experts said they feared the Administration's decision could come back to haunt US soldiers should they ever be captured by a foreign enemy, particularly special forces who usually don't wear uniforms. I think we may have set a bad precedent. The drawback is that we have given the other side some ammunition when they capture our people, said H.Wayne Elliott, a retired US Lieutenant colonel and former chief of the international law division at the US Army's Judge Advocate General's School. From an article on POW's or Unlawful Combatants http://www.crimesofwar.org/expert/pow-intro.html You might claim that is a liberal source so let us see what the International Red Cross has to say: The legal situation of 'unlawful/unprivileged combatants' In it the Red Cross argues while these detainees may not be POWs as defined by the Third Geneva Convention (Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War), they still deserve more limited protections under the Fourth Geneva Convention (Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War) and the First Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions. That is a reasonable arguement. But, the question is, what sort of protection do they deserve.. Do they deserve protection against unpleasantness, as do real POWs? Is anything that could be called undignified unacceptable. Take the case in Time magazine. If this is the extreme treatment that was only authorized for a few high value prisioners (like the probable 20th hijacker) is that acceptable, or must You trailed off but I get the gist. To what extent do you want to give the protectors of the state a free pass on what they do to the most well known political prisoners? There have been numerous accounts of abuse of Gitmo and other prisoners. If you read the tales and did not know where they occurred you would think they did
Re: Supreme Court: Home May Be Seized
On 6/24/05, Jim Sharkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary Nunn wrote: This is more than just a little disturbing to me. The abuses of Eminent Domain continue..Homes may be 'taken' for private projects Justices: Local governments can give OK if it's for public good This is one of the most hideous decisions I've seen in a long time. Anyone who thinks this decision will not disproportionately affect the lower classes is kidding himself. Does anyone *really* believe that some guy with a $1 million home is going to lose it to make way for a mall? What a crappy way to start the day today. Second worst part? Agreeing with Scalia and Thomas. :-P Bad, bad, decision. Only hope is this had a lot of publicity and nearly everyone thinks it is bad. I also find myself agreeing with old-style conservatives on some things. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Cover-up or protection?
On 6/20/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, does anyone know if the diagnosis of autism has fallen off by, say, 80% over the last few years? I'd guess that, if that happened, someone would have noticed. I am wondering if Robert Kennedy Jr. engaged in a bit of overstating his case. Autism was defined before thimerosal was in use. The linking of children's vaccines to autism was widely rumored for years and dismissed as email based conspiracy theory. The main element of his story, the evidence of a CDC cover-up, looks pretty impressive. I have heard some people saying they thought locally that autism cases had plateaued or were even dropping in the last couple of years. They were attributing it to bad economic times for nerds. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Totally Implausible
WMD claims were 'totally implausible' Richard Norton-Taylor Monday June 20, 2005 A key Foreign Office diplomat responsible for liaising with UN inspectors says today that claims the government made about Iraq's weapons programme were totally implausible. He tells the Guardian: I'd read the intelligence on WMD for four and a half years, and there's no way that it could sustain the case that the government was presenting. All of my colleagues knew that, too. Carne Ross, who was a member of the British mission to the UN in New York during the run-up to the invasion, resigned from the FO last year, after giving evidence to the Butler inquiry. He thought about publishing his testimony because he felt so angry. But he was warned that if he did he might be prosecuted under the Official Secrets Act. There was a very good alternative to war that was never properly pursued, which was to close down Saddam's sources of illegal revenue, he says. Mr Ross also says sanctions imposed against Iraq were wrong. They did immeasurable damage to the Iraqi civilian population. We were conscious of that but we did too little to address it, he says. Earlier, after the September 11 attacks on the US, Mr Ross spent six weeks in Afghanistan negotiating with warlords. The allies didn't understand Afghanistan, he says. They didn't have sufficient forces on the ground, were trapped in their fortified compounds, naive about the the willingness of the warlords to cede power, and were far too optimistic that opium production could be curtailed. But I knew this, so did anyone who did more than the minimum of checking with Canadian and UK sources. People could have also checked the back pages of the Washington Post and Knight-Ridder newspapers. You can listen to the revisionist argument that we went to bring democracy to Iraq but that was not how we were lied into this war. There is a paper that documented all the reasons given for the war before the war, bringing democracy was always an afterthought. We are also failing at that too as we have created a client state for US contractors and seem to be spreading civil war, torture, and corruption more than any form of democracy. Is my linking torture to what we are bring instead of democracy over the top? On the US side - ABC News reported that a Pentagon memo revealed that Navy general counsel Alberto Mora warned that top officials could go to prison over interrogation techniques used in Guantanamo Bay. he said the techniques were unlawful and unworthy of the military services. On the new-old Iraqi interrogation techniques - A Los Angeles Times report say the Iraqi government's Ministry of Human Rights says their security forces are presently using the same techniques as used by the secret police under Saddam Hussein. We've documented a lot of torture cases, said Sultan, whose committee is pushing for wider access to Iraqi-run prisons across the nation. There are beatings, punching, electric shocks to the body, including sensitive areas, hanging prisoners upside down and beating them and dragging them on the ground…. Many police officers come from a culture of torture from their experiences over the last 35 years. Most of them worked during Saddam's regime. The ordeal described by Hussam Guheithi is similar to many cases. When Iraqi national guardsmen raided his home last month, the 35-year-old Sunni Muslim imam said they lashed him with cables, broke his nose and promised to soak their uniforms with his blood. He was blindfolded and driven to a military base, where he was interrogated and beaten until the soldiers were satisfied that he wasn't an extremist. Get used to it, if you have a government that believes in an Imperial Empire, a Pax Americana, torture and corporate crony corruption comes with it. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Now, this is just thoroughly tasteless....
On 6/20/05, Leonard Matusik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: after I wrote this Maybe we should have a most offensive or most bigoted art contest. Oh how FUN! I am sooo up for that! Let's see, I'm a devout Roman Catholic so my first entry is this: Picture a crucifix made of clear plastic resin. Suspended in the plastic are bunches of little bibles (closed, so you can't read them of course). A pregnant Barbie doll in a tattered nuns outfit is tied to the crucifix and she's is smiling that warped Barbie smile. The entire crucifix is rising out of a 4 foot tall lucite chalice filled with cellophane wrapped candy and sugary individual snack cakes.Observers are encouraged to eat all they want by men in dark suits and raybans who carry those collection baskets on a stick thingys held like tommyguns. I will have to think about what would offend my sensibilities enough to consider censorship. It shouldn't have anything to do with the Constitution as I would be too aware of the irony, an ironic-deficit disorder is why the US House has recently again passed a flag-burning amendment to the Constitution. It may take me a bit to come up with an entry - something I could be tempted to ban but could be classified as art. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Stross: Accelerando
On or about 6/21/05, Kevin Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post, Mr. Chassell! This is what Brin-L is all about. Charles on the genesis of Manfred. http://www.accelerando.org/2005/06/10#sfbc-1 A great post about he got the idea of Lobsters and *Accelerando!* and the character of Manfred. It involves the comparison of working in a dot.com bubble with living on singularity time and features f**king French programmers. (Should I wait for someone else to tell Warren to reread the post he responded to?) -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brain Areas Shut Off During Female Orgasm
COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) - New research indicates that parts of the brain that govern fear and anxiety are switched off when a woman is having an orgasm. In the first study to map brain function during orgasm, scientists from the Netherlands also found that as a woman climaxes, an area of the brain that governs emotional control is also heavily deactivated. The fact that there is no deactivation in faked orgasms means a basic part of a real orgasm is letting go. Women can imitate orgasm quite well, as we know, but there is nothing really happening in the brain, said neuroscientist Gert Holstege, presenting his findings Monday at the annual meeting of the European Society of Human Reproduction and Embryology. In the study, Holstege and his colleagues at Groningen University recruited 11 men and 13 women, together with their respective partners. The volunteers laid on a scanning machine bed and were injected with a dye that shows changes in brain function on a scan. For the men, the brain scanner tracked activity during rest, during erection, during manual stimulation by their partner and then during ejaculation, brought on by the partner's hand. For the women, the scanner measured brain activity during rest, while they faked an orgasm, during manual stimulation by their partner, and while they experienced genuine orgasm. Holstege said he had trouble getting reliable results from the study on men because the scanning machine needs activities lasting at least two minutes to record an activity. But the men's climaxes didn't last anywhere near that lone, meaning he could not reliably compare the scans before climax and during. However, for women, the results were clear, he said. When women faked orgasm, the cortex, the part of the brain governing conscious action, lit up. It was not activated during genuine orgasm. The most striking results, however, were seen in the parts of the brain that shut down, or deactivated. During orgasm, there was strong, enormous deactivation in the brain. During fake orgasm, there was no deactivation of the brain at all. None, Holstege said. It looks like to have an orgasm, you need to not be fearful or full of anxiety. http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050620/D8ARD1N02.html From a yahoo group about S*x Drive with Regina Lynn http://www.reginalynn.com -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Stross: Accelerando
somebody wrote:: This is pretty funny; you appear to have got the attributions inverted. (It was Robert who was at the top, you in the middle, me at the bottom.) Sorry about that. No offence meant, I was just typing too fast. PS: No comments from the Peanut Gallery on that. ;) Wouldn't dream of it. Kevin Street I would. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Stross: Accelerando
On 6/21/05, Kevin Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert J. Chassell (no mistake this time) really did write: But what if the two are exactly identical in all observable and feelable ways, being carbon based and atomically the same? If you believe in a soul, is it transmitted? (Neither you nor those more personally involved can tell one way or the other.) Theologically, is the original dead? Should we consider the two who live as being imposters? Or has one soul become two? Legally, what is right? That's a tough question. Not knowing anything about the soul, I'd still go with them being two different people, since one can experience things that the other cannot. (Kick the real guy in the shin, and the computer version won't feel the pain.) But if they were linked together in some weird quantum entanglement way... One is the smallest divisible unit of a soul? Can souls become entangled? Is the soul a part of the brain or some energy that surrounds the body? Does a soul enter the body at the first breath? Does it come into being upon implantation or before? Does each sperm carry a partial soul? How many can dance on the head of a pin? Are souls useful, scientific, or testable concepts? How much is a soul worth? Do animals have souls? Do uplifted animals have souls? -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Cover-up or protection?
Correction. This is a bipartisan scandal. The cover-up appears to start a few months before the 2000 election from the details presented. Gary Denton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Now, this is just thoroughly tasteless....
On 6/18/05, Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Behalf Of Warren Ockrassa On Jun 18, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Julia Thompson wrote: I wonder how they'd feel about someone using pages from a Bible to construct something from papier mache? Sheesh. More appropriate might be shreds of the US flag. I couldn't help but think of the outcry and outrage over Piss Christ a decade or two ago... Maybe we should have a most offensive or most bigoted art contest. -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Are you prepared for what occupation brings?
Disturbed by torture? Prepare for more as the price of Empire. COMMENTARY Torture's Part of the Territory . By Naomi Klein Brace yourself for a flood of gruesome new torture snapshots. Last week, a federal judge ordered the Defense Department to release dozens of additional photographs and videotapes depicting prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib. The photographs will elicit what has become a predictable response: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld will claim to be shocked and will assure us that action is already being taken to prevent such abuses from happening again. But imagine, for a moment, if events followed a different script. Imagine if Rumsfeld responded like Col. Mathieu in Battle of Algiers, Gillo Pontecorvo's famed 1965 film about the National Liberation Front's attempt to liberate Algeria from French colonial rule. In one of the film's key scenes, Mathieu finds himself in a situation familiar to top officials in the Bush administration: He is being grilled by a room filled with journalists about allegations that French paratroopers are torturing Algerian prisoners. Based on real-life French commander Gen. Jacques Massus, Mathieu neither denies the abuse nor claims that those responsible will be punished. Instead, he flips the tables on the scandalized reporters, most of whom work for newspapers that overwhelmingly support France's continued occupation of Algeria. Torture isn't the problem, he says calmly. The problem is the FLN wants to throw us out of Algeria and we want to stay. It's my turn to ask a question. Should France stay in Algeria? If your answer is still yes, then you must accept all the consequences. His point, as relevant in Iraq today as it was in Algeria in 1957, is that there is no nice, humanitarian way to occupy a nation against the will of its people. Those who support such an occupation don't have the right to morally separate themselves from the brutality it requires. Now, as then, there are only two ways to govern: with consent or with fear. Most Iraqis do not consent to the open-ended military occupation they have been living under for more than two years. On Jan. 30, a clear majority voted for political parties promising to demand a timetable for U.S. withdrawal. Washington may have succeeded in persuading Iraq's political class to abandon that demand, but the fact remains that U.S. troops are on Iraqi soil in open defiance of the express wishes of the population. Lacking consent, the current U.S.-Iraqi regime relies heavily on fear, including the most terrifying tactics of them all: disappearances, indefinite detention without charge and torture. And despite official reassurances, it's only getting worse. A year ago, President Bush pledged to erase the stain of Abu Ghraib by razing the prison to the ground. There has been a change of plans. Abu Ghraib and two other U.S.-run prisons in Iraq are being expanded, and a new 2,000-person detention facility is being built, with a price tag of $50 million. In the last seven months alone, the prison population has doubled to a staggering 11,350. The U.S. military may indeed be cracking down on prisoner abuse, but torture in Iraq is not in decline it has simply been outsourced. In January, Human Rights Watch found that torture within Iraqi-run (and U.S.-supervised) jails and detention facilities was systematic, including the use of electroshock. An internal report from the 1st Cavalry Division, obtained by the Washington Post, states that electrical shock and choking are consistently used to achieve confessions by Iraqi police and soldiers. So open is the use of torture that it has given rise to a hit television show: Every night on the TV station Al Iraqiya run by a U.S. contractor prisoners with swollen faces and black eyes confess to their crimes. Rumsfeld claims that the wave of recent suicide bombings in Iraq is a sign of desperation. In fact, it is the proliferation of torture under Rumsfeld's watch that is the true sign of panic. In Algeria, the French used torture not because they were sadistic but because they were fighting a battle they could not win against the forces of decolonization and Third World nationalism. In Iraq, Saddam Hussein's use of torture surged immediately after the Shiite uprising in 1991: The weaker his hold on power, the more he terrorized his people. Unwanted regimes, whether domestic dictatorships or foreign occupations, rely on torture precisely because they are unwanted. When the next batch of photographs from Abu Ghraib appear, many Americans will be morally outraged, and rightly so. But perhaps some brave official will take a lesson from Col. Mathieu and dare to turn the tables: Should the United States stay in Iraq? If your answer is still yes, then you must accept all the consequences. Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news3/latimes92v.htm -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming
Cover-up or protection?
Suppose a CDC researcher had uncovered evidence that a mercury preservative introduced in children's vaccine's was implicated in a 15-fold increase in autism in youngsters. What would the CDC do?. If you know the strong ties between large drug corporations and the administration the answer is no surprise. Extraordinary lengths were gone to to hide the study. The conference on high-level researchers to decide how to respond was itself covered-up. The study was privatized to keep it away from FOI requests. The CDC researcher was given a new job with the vaccine industry. The companies were allowed to continue to use the mercury compound for years and encouraged to export the vaccines to other countries. A new study was initiated with the researchers instructed as to what conclusions should be reached. Just bidness as usual. In fact, the government has proved to be far more adept at handling the damage than at protecting children's health. The CDC paid the Institute of Medicine to conduct a new study to whitewash the risks of thimerosal, ordering researchers to rule out the chemical's link to autism. It withheld Verstraeten's findings, even though they had been slated for immediate publication, and told other scientists that his original data had been lost and could not be replicated. And to thwart the Freedom of Information Act, it handed its giant database of vaccine records over to a private company, declaring it off-limits to researchers. By the time Verstraeten finally published his study in 2003, he had gone to work for GlaxoSmithKline and reworked his data to bury the link between thimerosal and autism. Vaccine manufacturers had already begun to phase thimerosal out of injections given to American infants - but they continued to sell off their mercury-based supplies of vaccines until last year. The CDC and FDA gave them a hand, buying up the tainted vaccines for export to developing countries and allowing drug companies to continue using the preservative in some American vaccines - including several pediatric flu shots as well as tetanus boosters routinely given to 11-year-olds ... The story of how government health agencies colluded with Big Pharma to hide the risks of thimerosal from the public is a chilling case study of institutional arrogance, power and greed. I was drawn into the controversy only reluctantly. As an attorney and environmentalist who has spent years working on issues of mercury toxicity, I frequently met mothers of autistic children who were absolutely convinced that their kids had been injured by vaccines. Privately, I was skeptical. I doubted that autism could be blamed on a single source, and I certainly understood the government's need to reassure parents that vaccinations are safe; the eradication of deadly childhood diseases depends on it. I tended to agree with skeptics like Rep. Henry Waxman, a Democrat from California, who criticized his colleagues on the House Government Reform Committee for leaping to conclusions about autism and vaccinations. Why should we scare people about immunization, Waxman pointed out at one hearing, until we know the facts? It was only after reading the Simpsonwood transcripts, studying the leading scientific research and talking with many of the nation's preeminent authorities on mercury that I became convinced that the link between thimerosal and the epidemic of childhood neurological disorders is real. Five of my own children are members of the Thimerosal Generation - those born between 1989 and 2003 - who received heavy doses of mercury from vaccines. The elementary grades are overwhelmed with children who have symptoms of neurological or immune-system damage, Patti White, a school nurse, told the House Government Reform Committee in 1999. Vaccines are supposed to be making us healthier; however, in 25 years of nursing I have never seen so many damaged, sick kids. Something very, very wrong is happening to our children. More than 500,000 kids currently suffer from autism, and pediatricians diagnose more than 40,000 new cases every year. The disease was unknown until 1943, when it was identified and diagnosed among 11 children born in the months after thimerosal was first added to baby vaccines in 1931. This version is easier to get to than the original http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/061605HA.shtml Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apples Adventures in TCPA / Palladium
On 6/15/05, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dang. Putting OS X on a Dell would be Way Cool from where I sit Julia near Round Rock, Texas Exactly what I was thinking. - Except I was also thinking of setting up a partition on this system for Redhat or SuSE soon. I also saw the references to the next Windows OS being worse than XP in regards to your system upgrades. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apples Adventures in TCPA / Palladium
It checks the contents of your hard drive and the software you have to decide if you are authorized to be using Windows or MicroSoft software. I have heard from a number of people who have had to make that call to Redmond to turn their software back on . Gary Denton On 6/16/05, Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:20 AM Thursday 6/16/2005, Gary Denton wrote: I also saw the references to the next Windows OS being worse than XP in regards to your system upgrades. Meaning? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Pesticides and Children
On 6/16/05, Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Golly, *who* might benefit from the easing of introduction of new pesticides...? Debbi Monsanto And Dupont Fer Twa Maru The other day Robert F. Kennedy Jr. gave a passionate speech here in Houston denouncing the Bush administration, the current GOP leadership, and corporate polluters who are united in greed. No surprise there. But it was very effective probably because it was passionate and heartfelt and all framed in a pro-capitalist, pro-free market, pro-Christian, pro-patriotic American and bipartisan manner. Like many he feels that Bush has been worse than a disaster for our country. A mp3 download of the 1-hour Houston Progressive Forum Pacifica radio program includes the speech here for 59 days. http://www.kpftx.org/archives/kpftsignal/mp3/050616_190001pf.MP3 It might be considered a more effective update of articles and speeches and a book he has written on the Bush environmental record. His earlier article Crimes Against Nature is here: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1120-01.htm -- Gary Denton http://www.apollocon.org June 24-26 Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 6/14/05, Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What REALLY bothers me about all this is this: If the United States wants to hold itself out as a paragon to the rest of the world, shouldn't we hold ourselves to a HIGHER standard than we'd hold other countries? If we want other countries to look up to the US, shouldn't we follow the spirit not just the letter of the law? Absolutely. Quoting scripture and Franklin D. Roosevelt, Hinson suggested the nation is greedy and morally bankrupt and warned that America's fear of terrorism is excessive and unhealthy. Denouncing fear that immobilizes, fear that causes you to lash out mindlessly, fear that prompts a nation to launch a preemptive strike against an imagined enemy, fear in excess, Hinson said, Only God's love can bring that kind of fear under control. - Baptist Seminary of Kentucky Professor Glenn Hinson: http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/11888623.htm -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Forget global warming, let's make a difference
On 6/15/05, Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apropos of nothing specific, I read in DW a couple weeks back that Germany is in the process of dismantling its nuke reactors and returning to fossil fuels for power. ¿Que? Wind farms often get voted down in the US, mostly because no one wants to live near one. Folks seem to think they're ugly. And lately there's been advertising done *here* as well, trying to boost the image of coal. The suggestion is that coal miners are all hardbodied men and women in their early to mid twenties, who spend most of their time in the mines standing upright and striking alluring poses. Can a coal-powered SUV be far behind? What the hell is *wrong* with people? I like wind farms as long as I don't live within a mile of one. That seems to be no problem here in Texas or most areas in the US. The UK and Europe are leaving us far behind in applying this technology. Wind farms are not a panacea - there are strong doubts that it can supply more than 15% of a nation's energy needs in the next few decades. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
Seems to belong here - a long article on the US interrogation system this past Sunday. Perm link http://tinyurl.com/7rmhr http://www.bugmenot.com Only after a new commanding officer had arrived and official inquiries had issued their reports did we learn that 40 percent of those penned up at Guantanamo never belonged there in the first place. At Abu Ghraib in Iraq, the record was even worse: two-thirds of the detainees were eventually said to have been innocent of terrorist links. At least when they were picked up. Who knows what leanings they developed or links they forged during and after their interrogations? ...uncomfortable with both absolutist positions -- the trusting ''do what you have to do in secret'' carte blanche versus the pure ''no coercive force ever'' position held by those who are strict constructionists when it comes to laws against torture lite as well as torture -- and equally dubious about the feasibility of a decent middle ground, I set out with notebook in hand several months ago to speak to politicians on Capitol Hill, spymasters, interrogators and legal experts. My hopes were that their experience and conclusions would shed light on the ingredients of a successful interrogation, whether these included coercion and, if so, how much, and whether there was anything that ordinary citizens could safely be told about what goes on in the shadows. My itinerary wasn't arduous. It involved traveling to Washington for conversations on Capitol Hill; then to Cambridge, Mass., to talk to law professors with a range of strong views on my subject; and finally to Israel, a country whose Supreme Court had asserted its jurisdiction and declared in 1999 that not only torture but all forms of ''cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment'' -- the term for torture lite used in the Convention Against Torture -- were illegal under Israeli law. At least there, it seemed, the security services that conduct interrogations had adapted themselves over many years to the idea that some legal standards might actually apply on the dark side. That was more or less the American view until just after 9/11. Even when clear evidence of the effectiveness of torture lite is hard to come by, democracies threatened by terrorism shrink from laying down the weapon. Should the threat ever pass, we can be expected to repress any memory of its use as we now try to do in daily life while it persists. Then we'll discover how much gratitude or resentment has accrued to us in the places where we've operated, among the descendants of those we've detained. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
Elliott, a retired US Lieutenant colonel and former chief of the international law division at the US Army's Judge Advocate General's School. From an article on POW's or Unlawful Combatants http://www.crimesofwar.org/expert/pow-intro.html You might claim that is a liberal source so let us see what the International Red Cross has to say: The legal situation of 'unlawful/unprivileged combatants' In it the Red Cross argues while these detainees may not be POWs as defined by the Third Geneva Convention (Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War), they still deserve more limited protections under the Fourth Geneva Convention (Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War) and the First Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions. http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/5LPHBV/%24File/irrc_849_Dorman.pdf 3rd and most definitely from the 4th Geneva Convention: Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals. http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm Doesn't get much plainer that the Geneva Convention covers them. In addition, the 1st Protocol to the Four Geneva Conventions specifies that a competent standard of care applies to all personnel captured Neutral and other States not Parties to the conflict shall apply the relevant provisions of this Protocol to persons protected by this Part who may be received or interned within their territory, and to any dead of the Parties to that conflict whom they may find. and A combatant who falls into the power of an adverse Party while failing to meet the requirements set forth in the second sentence of paragraph 3 shall forfeit his right to be a prisoner of war, but he shall, nevertheless, be given protections equivalent in all respects to those accorded to prisoners of war by the Third Convention and by this Protocol. This protection includes protections equivalent to those accorded to prisoners of war by the Third Convention in the case where such a person is tried and punished for any offences he has committed. Any combatant who falls into the power of an adverse Party while not engaged in an attack or in a military operation preparatory to an attack shall not forfeit his rights to be a combatant and a prisoner of war by virtue of his prior activities. Any person who has taken part in hostilities, who is not entitled to prisoner-of-war status and who does not benefit from more favourable treatment in accordance with the Fourth Convention shall have the right at all times to the protection of Article 75 of this Protocol. In occupied territory, an such person, unless he is held as a spy, shall also be entitled, notwithstanding Article 5 of the Fourth Convention, to his rights of communication under that Convention. Do you still say the Geneva Conventions do not apply? BTW, we have also been guilty of violating the missing persons act of this protocol by Rumsfeld's policy of secret detentions. (a) Record the information specified in Article 138 of the Fourth Convention in respect of such persons who have been detained, imprisoned or otherwise held in captivity for more than two weeks as a result of hostilities or occupation, or who have died during any period of detention; http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/93.htm I will concede that Al Qaeda detainees but possibly not all Taliban members are not POW's if you will acknowledge they are still covered under the Geneva Conventions as demonstrated above. This is pretty basic stuff and trying to argue that none of the Geneva Conventions apply just lowers the standing of the United States in the world. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 6/11/05, Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 03:38 PM Saturday 6/11/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 11:31 PM Friday 6/10/2005, Dan Minette wrote: [snip] One of the things that is done with regularity at Gitmo (according to one our Congresspersons who was *allowed* to visit there), is tying a prisoner down till he defecates and urinates on himself and then leaving him there for 18 - 24 hours. This is supposed to deliver intelligence to our Mil/Int services. But I see no valid comparisons between the abuses of our penal system and the way political prisoners are handled at Gitmo and the other places where Americans are paid to leave their humanity at the door. Without making excuses or attempting to justify any abuses in either prison system, I did make a point in a post to another list earlier today in response to a reference to the alleged desecration of the Qu'ran at Gitmo: whatever else we may have done there, we at least have made provision for Muslim prisoners we are holding to exercise their religion by allowing them to have copies of their holy book, by giving them something to use as a prayer rug and allowing them to pray, by giving them meals which meet their religious dietary restrictions, etc. I have not heard that the Muslims have, frex, provided captured Christians with Bibles or captured Jews with yarmulkes, or otherwise facilitated them in their exercise of their religions. (If I am incorrect in that, I would appreciate correction.) And whatever we may have done as far as abuse or mistreatment of prisoners at Gitmo, I have not heard of us kidnapping known non-combatants such as aid workers and posting video of their decapitation on the Internet . . . I am sure you are not meaning to say that our standard of treatment only has to meet the standard of barbarians. So by this standard as long as we don't torture people to death or take pictures of it we are doing OK. As it is the incident I posted, one of several available, of torturing people to death. Part of the humiliation interrogation technique was taking photos. We are outsourcing some cases to places where torture is more practiced. Surprisingly one of those was Syria which tortured a Canadian for several weeks after the US shipped him in there before concluding he was innocent. Syria has since stopped participating in our information gathering. So even by the lowest possible standards are we doing OK? I do not want the US ttreatment to be the new minimum standard of decency. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 6/10/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 6/9/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dr. Cole is right. IMHO, he amplifies and mirrors one of the worst tendencies of the Bush administration: seeing adversaries as evil incarnate and not willing to believe that their viewpoints can be opposed, except by evil. We disagree. I don't see him as amplifying that administration trait. The prison at Guantanamo was expressly set up to circumvent laws the US had on how to treat prisoners, POWs and other combatants. That isn't clear to me. What is clear to me is that they didn't want the complication of bringing prisoners taken in a war into the United States. Let's look back at a few wars. It is clear that the general Viet Cong (Nam), Chinese (Korea), German or Japanese (WWII) prisoners would be covered by the Geneva convention, but no one was arguing that they had a right to either a trial under the US court system or quick release. Further, there was summary justice practiced in Europe with lower level German officers found guilty of war crimes. I think it would be useful to see what the rules as well as the practices were in past wars. So, IMHO, going to Gitmo was initially defendable. Some of the prisoners (AQ) were clearly not protected by the Geneva Conventions. That was fairly well established on list at the time, by reference to the conventions. If you look at what was expected by a number of people, military trials within a few months, and then sentencing, it was not inherently unreasonable. The Geneva Conventions does specify how to handle POWs and all other prisoners. There was a campaign by the administration to deny this and to deny that sections of our uniform military code of justice applied. This recommendation by the administration and the White House was vigorously protested by experienced State Department and senior military JAG officials. I know of no one who thought that these prisoners would be held just a few months until military trials but I will admit I didn't ask you. That didn't happen. The administration now has prisoners there for 2.5 years, and seems most willing to hold most of them indefinitely without trial. I think they are caught, having prisoners that they are sure will return to fighting the United States if released, but without sufficient evidence of criminal activity to convict, even in a military court. Their justification is, at least, slightly based in reality. There is a war on terrorism, and they have caught AQ unlawful combatants in this war. They have the right to hold them until the war is over. This is totally preposterous. This war on a vague dangerous sounding noun will last how long? Dr. Cole is correct, what you are arguing is that a class of people should be held indefinitely without trial. This is known as a bill of attainder and is expressly forbidden by Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution. The difficulty with this rational is obvious. While the adversary(ies) we are facing are not simply criminals...they have had many of the resources available to nations at their disposal, the war on terror is not fixed in place and time as older wars have been. So, these men could be held until they die of old age because of the vague boundaries involved in the war on terror. I consider this wrong. But, I consider the idea that AQ is just a bunch of criminals that should be left to the courts to be wrong. I think we are in a new type of situationone in which the rules need to be worked out. None of the old templates work. Hyperbola doesn't help this process. OK, you do recognize the problems with this. However, your dismissal of the courts, not even recognizing the difference between military justice and the right demonized liberal court system is troubling to me. IMHO you also seem to be remiss in claiming this is a unique situation. Many wars are not between governments with fixed boundaries. The administration set out to get and obtained from their lawyers advise that the Geneva Accords were quaint and that the president was entitled to authorize torture if he felt it necessary. IIRC, the question was more limited. It was whether the US president would have to forgo state trips to Europe because violations of the Geneva convention would be an arresting offence when he was there. The answer was no. It is somewhat germane, because a Spanish judge is looking at charging the American servicemen who fired a round into a hotel that they mistakenly thought was the source of shots fired at them. This is a somewhat distorted argument IMHO. Gonzales was writing trying to find some means that agents of the government violating the Geneva Convention would not be subject to trial by a future administration, not by foreigners
Re: Gulags
On 6/13/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Gulags Right away, I wanted to re-establish what the Geneva convention actually says. The Geneva Conventions does specify how to handle POWs and all other prisoners. The relevent section of the covention, from an earlier post of mine: A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy: 1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces. 2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) That of carrying arms openly; (d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. AQ doesn't qualify under these provisions. Particularly clear is the fact that they do not comply with b. The Geneva convention is a treaty between governments. It does not cover citizens of a country fighting in another country without clearly joining the military or militia of that other country and demonstrating it by wearing uniforms. Dan M. You are focusing on one section in several Geneva Conventions. I will repeat what I have above. Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Additional Protocol II apply to prisoners regardless of the status of the legal standing of their organization. Common Article 3 also applies to government clashes with armed insurgent groups. In addition the 4th Geneva Convention (Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War) lays out separate protections for civilians, including so-called unlawful combatants. Article 4 of the 3rd Geneva Convention sets out six distinct categories of prisoners whom the convention defines as POWs. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: How the New York Times turned
On 6/11/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/11/2005 11:20:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: huh- have you been reading the same paper I have been reading for the past few years. The Times has consistently argued that the Bush tax policy was and is a disaster. They have been a reasoned critic of his foreign policy and have against almost all of his domestic agenda They supported his Iraqi war and were a main conduit of the pro-war propaganda. They repeatedly convey the misinformation of administration officials while offering no or weak rebuttals. They are defending two columnists who are the last available sources on who in the administration was smearing and outing Valerie Plame, a deep cover CIA agent preventing the spread of WMDs. Along with the Washington Post they refused to run major articles on the extremists nominated for judgeships until after the nominations were approved. They have been less supportive of Bush's social agenda being an Eastern metro paper. For your specific objection on Bush's tax policy to cite just two: : New York Times. Bush's Tax Cut: The Best Boost For NY November 19, 2001 During the election they did no fact-checking but simply reported each campaign's spin. Complained about here among other places. http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=background.viewbackgroundid=28 (You also might check out Brad DeLong's archives. You might also check out the Daily Howler archives as he is frequently a critic of the left as well as the right but a much of his work is the poor and biased reporting at the Times. You might also add Talking Points Memo to your online to read list.) This is why the rhetoric of their editorial was so noteworthy. Except for a few cases they have been behind this administration and offered mild criticisms. The last major opposition I found was over the failure to include low-income taxpayers in those receiving an increase in their child credit. Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
