Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[David Hobby]

...
It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin 
stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker.


The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, 
Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo.

...

If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the best defense is
references to them in books not written by David Brin.  Does anybody know
any?

---David

___

Jumping in here without reading the whole thread (bad form, I know, but I
have no time to even be reading what I've read and replying *now*), but an
amazon.com search might turn something up.  It's given me stupid references
to things inside books when I've been looking for just one thing in
particular, so, at least in theory, that should work now.

Julia

...

Julia--

Thanks for the suggestion.  Google Book Search seems better, though.
I found a synopsis in _What do I read next? 97_ that way.
(Or little snippets of it, since that's what the search returned.)

So I put that and some other references in the Alvin article, removed
the tags from it, and put it (and 15 more Brin-related pages) on my
watchlist.

The sense I get is that Abductive is on a crusade against poorly-sourced
articles.  It's silly in a way, since it's easy enough to hunt up
sources, and putting them in doesn't really improve the articles.
The best spin I can put on his actions are that he's trying to get
people to improve "their" articles.  Once people have put enough
effort into an article to add references, it WILL probably be a
good article.

---David

Oh, and Happy New Year to everybody!

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RE: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[Julia Thompson]

 

-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of David Hobby
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:42 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

...
>> It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin 
>> stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker.
>>
> The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, 
> Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo.
> 
> It must be a Brin-hater.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
> title=Special:Contributions&limit=50&target=Abductive

So the user is "Abductive", and he seems to spend a lot of time proposing
articles for deletion.  All except Streaker now just have "notability" tags,
which seem mild enough to leave.  But it could well be the first step in a
campaign.  He seems to not have status much higher than the rest of us
editors, so the articles won't be deleted without due process.

If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the best defense is
references to them in books not written by David Brin.  Does anybody know
any?

---David

___

Jumping in here without reading the whole thread (bad form, I know, but I
have no time to even be reading what I've read and replying *now*), but an
amazon.com search might turn something up.  It's given me stupid references
to things inside books when I've been looking for just one thing in
particular, so, at least in theory, that should work now.

Julia

and no, I don't have time to do the searches myself any time this week


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[Trent Shipley]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:

> David Hobby wrote:
>   
>> So the user is "Abductive", and he seems to spend a lot
>> of time proposing articles for deletion.  
>>
>> 
> It's probably an "attack account": a sock puppet of a known
> user, created to give anonimity to a coward behavior (if it
> used the _real_ account, we might retaliate by proposing for
> deletion _its_ articles!).
>
> In the Portuguese wikipedia those trolls are severely
> repressed; one editor who abused sock-puppeteering was
> banned until after 2012-12-21.
>
>   
>> If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the
>> best defense is references to them in books not written
>> by David Brin.  Does anybody know any?
>>
>> 
> Probably some science fiction magazines have material about
> Brin's characters, races, etc. Also, there's GURPS Uplift,
> who is _not_ by Him.
>
> (and I still think Category should not be in the magma table!!!)
>
> Alberto Monteiro
>
>
> ___
> http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
>
>
>
>
>   
All of which does not change the fact that Abductive is correct.  The
articles previously mentioned in this family of threads simply do not
meet en-Wikipedia's notablity guidelines.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29

gives:

*This page in a nutshell:* A book is generally notable if it verifiably
 meets through reliable
sources , *one*
or more of the following criteria:

   1. The book has been the subject^[1]
  

  of multiple, non-trivial^[2]
  

  published works whose sources are independent of the book
  itself,^[3]
  

  with at least some of these works serving a general audience. This
  includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles,
  other books, television documentaries and reviews. Some of these
  works should contain sufficient critical commentary to allow the
  article to grow past a simple plot summary
  .
  * The immediately preceding criterion excludes media re-prints
of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where
the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested
parties advertise or speak about the book.^[4]



   2. The book has won a major literary award
  .
   3. The book has been considered by reliable sources to have made a
  significant contribution to a notable motion picture, or other art
  form, or event or political or religious movement.
   4. The book is the subject of instruction at multiple grade schools,
  high schools, universities /or/ post-graduate programs in any
  particular country.^[5]
  


   5. The book's author is so historically significant that any of his
  or her written works may be considered notable.^[6]
  





And


Derivative articles

Shortcut :
WP:BKD 

It is a general consensus on Wikipedia that articles should not be split
and split again into ever more minutiae of detail treatment, with each
split normally lowering the level of notability. What this means is that
while a book may be notable, it is not normally advisable to have a
separate article on a character or thing from the book, and it is often
the case that despite the book being manifestly notable, a derivative
article from it is not. Exceptions do, of course, exist—especially in
the case of very famous books. For example few would argue that Charles
Dickens ' /A Christmas
Carol / does not warrant
a 'subarticle' on its protagonist, Ebenezer Scrooge
.

In some situations, where the book itself does not fit the established
criteria for notability, or if the book is notable but the author has an
article in Wikipedia, it may be better to feature material about the
book in the author's article, rather than creating a separate article
for that book.





So there would seem to be a hierarchy acceptable to en-Wikipedia's
content guidelines.


Article/biography on David Brin prefe

Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[Alberto Monteiro]

Matt Grimaldi wrote:
>
 It must be a Brin-hater.
>>> 
>>> Any clue to the identity of the troll?
>>> 
>> Who cares? Unless you are the owner of a Death Note, there's nothing
>> we could do.
> 
> Don't you also need a picture of his face for that?
> 
Yes - but it's easier to get the picture from the name than the
name from the picture, unless you have Shinigami eyes.

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[Matt Grimaldi]

Don't you also need a picture of his face for that?

-- Matt



- Original Message 
From: Alberto Monteiro 
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion 
Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 8:08:00 AM
Subject: RE: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/


Julia wrote:
>
>> The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan,
>>  Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo.
> 
>> It must be a Brin-hater.
> 
> Any clue to the identity of the troll?
> 
Who cares? Unless you are the owner of a Death Note, there's nothing
we could do.

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[Alberto Monteiro]

David Hobby wrote:
> 
> So the user is "Abductive", and he seems to spend a lot
> of time proposing articles for deletion.  
>
It's probably an "attack account": a sock puppet of a known
user, created to give anonimity to a coward behavior (if it
used the _real_ account, we might retaliate by proposing for
deletion _its_ articles!).

In the Portuguese wikipedia those trolls are severely
repressed; one editor who abused sock-puppeteering was
banned until after 2012-12-21.

> If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the
> best defense is references to them in books not written
> by David Brin.  Does anybody know any?
> 
Probably some science fiction magazines have material about
Brin's characters, races, etc. Also, there's GURPS Uplift,
who is _not_ by Him.

(and I still think Category should not be in the magma table!!!)

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[David Hobby]

...
It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin 
stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker.



The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi,
Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo.

It must be a Brin-hater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=Special:Contributions&limit=50&target=Abductive


So the user is "Abductive", and he seems to spend a lot
of time proposing articles for deletion.  All except
Streaker now just have "notability" tags, which seem
mild enough to leave.  But it could well be the first
step in a campaign.  He seems to not have status much
higher than the rest of us editors, so the articles won't
be deleted without due process.

If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the
best defense is references to them in books not written
by David Brin.  Does anybody know any?

---David

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RE: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[Alberto Monteiro]

Julia wrote:
>
>> The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan,
>>  Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo.
> 
>> It must be a Brin-hater.
> 
> Any clue to the identity of the troll?
> 
Who cares? Unless you are the owner of a Death Note, there's nothing
we could do.

Alberto Monteiro


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RE: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[Julia]

 

-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Alberto Monteiro
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:35 AM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/


> It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin 
> stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker.
> 
The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi,
Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo.

It must be a Brin-hater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=Special:Contributions&limit=50&target=Abductive

Alberto Monteiro




___


Any clue to the identity of the troll?

Julia


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The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/

[Alberto Monteiro]

> It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin
> stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker.
> 
The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi,
Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo.

It must be a Brin-hater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=Special:Contributions&limit=50&target=Abductive

Alberto Monteiro




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The wikipedia trolls may win again (II) :-/

[Alberto Monteiro]

It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin
stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker.

I will save the articles in txt files; when the Brin wiki is set up 
I will recreate them. It's a pity that the history will be
lost - I created those two articles, but they have expanded beyond
what I wrote.

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Alberto Monteiro]

Trent Shipley wrote:
>
> David Brin is an important science fiction author so he merits 
> mention in Wikipedia. The Jijo trilogy merits mention. Each book in 
> the trilogy merits an article. However, each book is based on an 
> ensemble cast. Alvin is an ensemble character in trilogy by an 
> author of moderate importance in a work of moderate importance. Thus,
>  Alvin is too trivial to be in Wikipedia.
> 
> If he were a Shakespeare character, no matter how minor, he would be 
> in Wikipedia, because Shakespeare is a very important author. If he 
> were a minor Naruto character he might rate an article because 
> Naruto is very popular. But as it is, Alvin doesn't meet the 
> criteria for important enough.
>
This is not what the owner of that thing said.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_is_not_paper

  "There is no reason why there shouldn't be a page for every
   Simpsons character, and even a table listing every episode,
   all neatly cross-linked and introduced by a shorter central
   page. Every episode name in the list could link to a separate
   page for each of those episodes, with links to reviews and
   trivia. Each of the 100+ poker games can have its own page
   with rules, history, and strategy. Jimbo Wales has agreed:
   Hard disks are cheap."

So, it's just trolls that want to remove fictional character pages;
after all, Dei Lucrii, Time Regained (film), Jia Xiaozhong,
Montesquieu-Guittaut, Märkische Schweiz (Amt), Homage for Satan,
and Pudian Road (Shanghai Metro) could be more important than Alvin?

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[David Hobby]

Charlie Bell wrote:

On 29/12/2009, at 3:44 AM, David Hobby wrote:


Alberto--

Wow, I guess it is my place to battle.  I've been going back and
forth with the "troll", at: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alvin_Hph-wayuo


Some of this is because I don't really understand his criteria, or
what the problem is with having an entry.


Maybe it should be merged into a "List of Characters in the Second
Uplift Trilogy" page, however.

I get the notability issue - Brin is notable, his books are, but all
the characters getting an individual entry, or even many of them?


Charlie--

I agree, one has to draw the line some place.
Though this guy does seem to be a stickler about
notability.

---David


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Max Battcher]

On 12/28/2009 5:18, Alberto Monteiro wrote:

Yes, it's a stub, and fortunately so. Another stupid decision
made in the English wikipedia was that spoilers are _not_
marked as such. Just take a look a the article about


English Wikipedia does provide standard spoiler warning templates, but 
unlike some of the other (*cough*less useful*cough*) templates, like the 
lack of citation and "just a stub" warnings, to my knowledge there 
aren't Spoiler nazis in En.Wikipedia plugging them into every article in 
existence.



"The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" movie...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_the_Christ
... or about the Titanic (the nazi rip-off by Cameron)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1997_film)
... and see how carelessly it gives the end of both movies without
respect for those who don't know the stories!


To be fair, the statute of spoiler limitations has run out on both of 
them, being semi-historical in nature. I also don't think the 
intentionally fictional elements of Titanic are substantial enough to be 
spoiled, but that's just my opinion.


--
--Max Battcher--
http://worldmaker.net

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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Charlie Bell]

On 29/12/2009, at 3:44 AM, David Hobby wrote:
> 
> 
> Alberto--
> 
> Wow, I guess it is my place to battle.  I've been going
> back and forth with the "troll", at:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alvin_Hph-wayuo
> 
> Some of this is because I don't really understand his
> criteria, or what the problem is with having an entry.

Maybe it should be merged into a "List of Characters in the Second Uplift 
Trilogy" page, however. 

I get the notability issue - Brin is notable, his books are, but all the 
characters getting an individual entry, or even many of them?

Charlie.
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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Trent Shipley]

David Hobby wrote:

> Alberto Monteiro wrote:
>> David Hobby wrote:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo
>>> Alberto--
>>>
>>> Hi.  I think you can make a good case to keep it,
>>> since it involves a major character in a series
>>> of popular science fiction novels.
>>>
>> No, not my language, not my place to battle. I've tried
>> to keep the Portuguese language trolls away from deleting
>> relevant material - I can say I have been half-successful.
>
> Alberto--
>
> Wow, I guess it is my place to battle.  I've been going
> back and forth with the "troll", at:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alvin_Hph-wayuo
>
> Some of this is because I don't really understand his
> criteria, or what the problem is with having an entry.
>
>>> The pages for the books should also link to Alvin's
>>> page.  But wait, the entry at
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity%27s_Shore
>>> is just a stub...
>>>
>> Yes, it's a stub, and fortunately so. Another stupid decision
>> made in the English wikipedia was that spoilers are _not_
>> marked as such. Just take a look a the article about
>> "The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" movie...
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_the_Christ
>> ... or about the Titanic (the nazi rip-off by Cameron)...
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1997_film)
>> ... and see how carelessly it gives the end of both movies without
>> respect for those who don't know the stories!
>
> Aren't they usually marked as plot synopses, or
> something?  But you're right, I bet a lot of people
> don't care about avoiding spoilers.
>
>>> O.K., so maybe the problem is that a case can eventually
>>> be made for Wikipedia to keep the page, but that
>>> the related pages aren't detailed enough yet.  I
>>> can see developing a Wiki devoted to the Uplift
>>> Universe in the meantime, and copying its content
>>> onto Wikipedia as time passes.
>>>
>> I think the best would be to do the opposite: create an Uplift wiki,
>> copy _from_ Wikipedia, and remove from Wikipedia.
>
> And all the Wikipedia articles would have would be a
> link to the extra material?  That seems fair, too.
>
> ---David
>
> ___
> http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
>From what you've said, he's asking you to prove the Alvin article is
important enough to be in the English Wikipedia.  Recently, the editors,
powers that be, or what have you have taken a much more active interest
in being a "serious" encyclopedia.  That means, for example, if I
created an article on Trent Shipley, it would be removed since I don't
merit mention in an encyclopedia. 

David Brin is an important science fiction author so he merits mention
in Wikipedia.
The Jijo trilogy merits mention.
Each book in the trilogy merits an article.
However, each book is based on an ensemble cast.
Alvin is an ensemble character in trilogy by an author of moderate
importance in a work of moderate importance.
Thus, Alvin is too trivial to be in Wikipedia.

If he were a Shakespeare character, no matter how minor, he would be in
Wikipedia, because Shakespeare is a very important author.
If he were a minor Naruto character he might rate an article because
Naruto is very popular.
But as it is, Alvin doesn't meet the criteria for important enough.


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Nick Arnett]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Nick Arnett  wrote:

And... anybody have a logo?


Nick
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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Nick Arnett]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:58 AM,  wrote:

> I did not send the original to the list. Feel free to forward this to the
> list.
>
> I'm partial to MediaWiki.


I have installed MediaWiki here:

http://www.nickarnett.net/sfwiki/

We can create a domain name for it and point it there when we're ready to go
public with it.

I guess there's no real need for admins... it's a wiki, so anybody can sign
up and do any of the editorial functions.  If there are configuration
changes needed on the back end, I can do those, of course.

Nick
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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[sendai]

On 28/12/2009, at 11:23 AM, tship...@deru.com wrote:
> Let's be more ambitious.
I've gone the other way and reduced the scope to just Uplift.

It's currently hosted on Wikia, and I've only just started dumping some of the 
lists (along with the Alvin stub) from Wikipedia to it, so it's not an issue if 
Nick wishes to host it on the same server as the list.

http://uplift.wikia.com/wiki/Uplift_Wiki

> 
> A science fiction and fantasy literary wiki!  (And just when I needed a new 
> project too.)


> --Original Message--
> From: Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro
> To: Brin-L
> ReplyTo: Brin-L
> Subject: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/
> Sent: Dec 27, 2009 4:56 PM
> 
> Article Alvin Hph-wayuo was proposed for elimination. From what 
> I know about such things, it will be eliminated :-(
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo
> 
> Maybe it's time to setup a Brin wiki
> 
> Alberto Monteiro

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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[David Hobby]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:

David Hobby wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo

Alberto--

Hi.  I think you can make a good case to keep it,
since it involves a major character in a series
of popular science fiction novels.


No, not my language, not my place to battle. I've tried
to keep the Portuguese language trolls away from deleting
relevant material - I can say I have been half-successful.


Alberto--

Wow, I guess it is my place to battle.  I've been going
back and forth with the "troll", at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alvin_Hph-wayuo

Some of this is because I don't really understand his
criteria, or what the problem is with having an entry.


The pages for the books should also link to Alvin's
page.  But wait, the entry at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity%27s_Shore
is just a stub...


Yes, it's a stub, and fortunately so. Another stupid decision
made in the English wikipedia was that spoilers are _not_
marked as such. Just take a look a the article about
"The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" movie...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_the_Christ
... or about the Titanic (the nazi rip-off by Cameron)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1997_film)
... and see how carelessly it gives the end of both movies without
respect for those who don't know the stories!


Aren't they usually marked as plot synopses, or
something?  But you're right, I bet a lot of people
don't care about avoiding spoilers.


O.K., so maybe the problem is that a case can eventually
be made for Wikipedia to keep the page, but that
the related pages aren't detailed enough yet.  I
can see developing a Wiki devoted to the Uplift
Universe in the meantime, and copying its content
onto Wikipedia as time passes.


I think the best would be to do the opposite: create an Uplift wiki,
copy _from_ Wikipedia, and remove from Wikipedia.


And all the Wikipedia articles would have would be a
link to the extra material?  That seems fair, too.

---David

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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Alberto Monteiro]

David Hobby wrote:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo
> 
> Alberto--
> 
> Hi.  I think you can make a good case to keep it,
> since it involves a major character in a series
> of popular science fiction novels.
>
No, not my language, not my place to battle. I've tried
to keep the Portuguese language trolls away from deleting
relevant material - I can say I have been half-successful.
 
> The pages for the books should also link to Alvin's
> page.  But wait, the entry at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity%27s_Shore
> is just a stub...
> 
Yes, it's a stub, and fortunately so. Another stupid decision
made in the English wikipedia was that spoilers are _not_
marked as such. Just take a look a the article about
"The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" movie...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_the_Christ
... or about the Titanic (the nazi rip-off by Cameron)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1997_film)
... and see how carelessly it gives the end of both movies without
respect for those who don't know the stories!

> O.K., so maybe the problem is that a case can eventually
> be made for Wikipedia to keep the page, but that
> the related pages aren't detailed enough yet.  I
> can see developing a Wiki devoted to the Uplift
> Universe in the meantime, and copying its content
> onto Wikipedia as time passes.
> 
I think the best would be to do the opposite: create an Uplift wiki,
copy _from_ Wikipedia, and remove from Wikipedia.

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Nick Arnett]

On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Nick Arnett  wrote:

> I could host it along with the list.  I even set up a wiki there,
> which I'm not using.


Sent that from my phone while waiting to see Sherlock Holmes (quite good,
but I had trouble understanding some of the dialog for some reason).

If I set it up, who volunteers to have magical powers over it?  I'd like to
see a couple of people from the list (or vouched by list members) as
administrators.

Nick
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Re: [Fwd: Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/]

[David Hobby]

Trent Shipley wrote:
...

A quick Google doesn't turn up any strong scifi literary wikis.  Given
the structure of a well designed wiki, David Brin's Uplift Universe
should be a viable category effectively acting as a sub-wiki.  In short,
you can have both.

...

From: Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro

...
Article Alvin Hph-wayuo was proposed for elimination. From what 
I know about such things, it will be eliminated :-(


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo

...

Alberto--

Hi.  I think you can make a good case to keep it,
since it involves a major character in a series
of popular science fiction novels.

If we want to keep
it, the thing to do would be to tie it in better
with other articles.  The Hoon article at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoon_(fiction)
could say something like "The most detailed
references to the Hoon appear in the Jijo
series.  The major Hoon character in those
books is Alvin Hph-wayuo, who..."

(This should be brief, but lets you link to the
Alvin page.)

The pages for the books should also link to Alvin's
page.  But wait, the entry at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity%27s_Shore
is just a stub...

O.K., so maybe the problem is that a case can eventually
be made for Wikipedia to keep the page, but that
the related pages aren't detailed enough yet.  I
can see developing a Wiki devoted to the Uplift
Universe in the meantime, and copying its content
onto Wikipedia as time passes.

---David


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Re: [Fwd: Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/]

[Dave Land]

I found most of what I wanted to know about Anathem on the Anathem  
Wiki at wikia.com.


Maybe that's a good place for us?

Dave

On Dec 27, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Trent Shipley wrote:




 Original Message 
From:   - Sun Dec 27 19:10:30 2009
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X-Mozilla-Status2:  0080
X-Mozilla-Keys: 
Message-ID: <4b38138e.1030...@deru.com>
Date:   Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:10:22 -0700
From:   Trent Shipley 
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090817)
MIME-Version:   1.0
To: sendai 
Subject:        Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/
References:
<1114620827-1261963340-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-6669531...@bda710.bisx.prod.on.blackberry 
>

<43b7d2e7-9be1-4e9e-a5f5-1e1152fe2...@iicx.net>
In-Reply-To:<43b7d2e7-9be1-4e9e-a5f5-1e1152fe2...@iicx.net>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7
Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  7bit



A quick Google doesn't turn up any strong scifi literary wikis.  Given
the structure of a well designed wiki, David Brin's Uplift Universe
should be a viable category effectively acting as a sub-wiki.  In  
short,

you can have both.



sendai wrote:


On 28/12/2009, at 11:23 AM, tship...@deru.com wrote:


Let's be more ambitious.


I've gone the other way and reduced the scope to just Uplift.

It's currently hosted on Wikia, and I've only just started dumping  
some of the lists (along with the Alvin stub) from Wikipedia to it,  
so it's not an issue if Nick wishes to host it on the same server  
as the list.


http://uplift.wikia.com/wiki/Uplift_Wiki


A science fiction and fantasy literary wiki!  (And just when I  
needed a new project too.)







--Original Message--
From: Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro
To: Brin-L
ReplyTo: Brin-L
Subject: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/
Sent: Dec 27, 2009 4:56 PM

Article Alvin Hph-wayuo was proposed for elimination. From what
I know about such things, it will be eliminated :-(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo

Maybe it's time to setup a Brin wiki

Alberto Monteiro











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[Fwd: Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/]

[Trent Shipley]

 Original Message 
From:   - Sun Dec 27 19:10:30 2009
X-Mozilla-Status:   0001
X-Mozilla-Status2:  0080
X-Mozilla-Keys: 
Message-ID: <4b38138e.1030...@deru.com>
Date:   Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:10:22 -0700
From:   Trent Shipley 
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090817)
MIME-Version:   1.0
To: sendai 
Subject:    Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/
References:
<1114620827-1261963340-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-6669531...@bda710.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
<43b7d2e7-9be1-4e9e-a5f5-1e1152fe2...@iicx.net>
In-Reply-To:<43b7d2e7-9be1-4e9e-a5f5-1e1152fe2...@iicx.net>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7
Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  7bit



A quick Google doesn't turn up any strong scifi literary wikis.  Given
the structure of a well designed wiki, David Brin's Uplift Universe
should be a viable category effectively acting as a sub-wiki.  In short,
you can have both.



sendai wrote:

> On 28/12/2009, at 11:23 AM, tship...@deru.com wrote:
>   
>> Let's be more ambitious.
>> 
> I've gone the other way and reduced the scope to just Uplift.
>
> It's currently hosted on Wikia, and I've only just started dumping some of 
> the lists (along with the Alvin stub) from Wikipedia to it, so it's not an 
> issue if Nick wishes to host it on the same server as the list.
>
> http://uplift.wikia.com/wiki/Uplift_Wiki
>
>   
>> A science fiction and fantasy literary wiki!  (And just when I needed a new 
>> project too.)
>> 
>
>
>   
>> ------Original Message--
>> From: Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro
>> To: Brin-L
>> ReplyTo: Brin-L
>> Subject: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/
>> Sent: Dec 27, 2009 4:56 PM
>>
>> Article Alvin Hph-wayuo was proposed for elimination. From what 
>> I know about such things, it will be eliminated :-(
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo
>>
>> Maybe it's time to setup a Brin wiki
>>
>> Alberto Monteiro
>> 
>
>
>
>   




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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Nick Arnett]

I could host it along with the list.  I even set up a wiki there,
which I'm not using.

Nick

On 12/27/09, tship...@deru.com  wrote:
> Let's be more ambitious.
>
> A science fiction and fantasy literary wiki!  (And just when I needed a new
> project too.)
> --Original Message--
> From: Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro
> To: Brin-L
> ReplyTo: Brin-L
> Subject: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/
> Sent: Dec 27, 2009 4:56 PM
>
> Article Alvin Hph-wayuo was proposed for elimination. From what
> I know about such things, it will be eliminated :-(
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo
>
> Maybe it's time to setup a Brin wiki
>
> Alberto Monteiro
>
> ___
> http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>
> ___
> http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
>
>

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Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[tshipley]

Let's be more ambitious. 

A science fiction and fantasy literary wiki!  (And just when I needed a new 
project too.)
--Original Message--
From: Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro
To: Brin-L
ReplyTo: Brin-L
Subject: The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/
Sent: Dec 27, 2009 4:56 PM

Article Alvin Hph-wayuo was proposed for elimination. From what 
I know about such things, it will be eliminated :-(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo

Maybe it's time to setup a Brin wiki

Alberto Monteiro

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Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

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The wikipedia trolls may win again :-/

[Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro]

Article Alvin Hph-wayuo was proposed for elimination. From what 
I know about such things, it will be eliminated :-(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Hph-wayuo

Maybe it's time to setup a Brin wiki

Alberto Monteiro

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