Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Asher Hockett]

The CLO had brought us from early recordings of birds, through  autonomous
recording devices of overflying chips and peeps to owling while sleeping.
Truly it's a brave new world.

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 3:48 PM Gary Kohlenberg  wrote:

> Some are finding the new Merlin sound ID app has some deficiencies with
> difficult species, like the trillers. For myself, I have been blown away by
> the fun and accuracy of such a new application. I wouldn’t base a heard
> only rare bird report totally on this app yet, but it sure will be handy to
> add confidence to a sighting. It will always be better to eBird sightings,
> with notes / photo / audio attached, for the tough ones.
>
> The times I have used Merlin I was surprised by the ability of the app to
> pick out background songs that I wasn’t even aware of at the time. I just
> assumed it would only ID the loudest song while ignoring the rest. I’m sure
> as time goes on the learning logic will make it more accurate as the photo
> application has become. I would guess that people with specific frequency
> hearing loss will find it useful for some species that may not sound like
> they used too.
> I’m sure people can fool Merlin with a good song imitation so I wonder
> about mimic species. If a mockingbird is singing a N. Cardinal song will it
> ID the cardinal and should we count it. ;)
>
> One benefit that may be realized is an increased confidence with some
> birders on reporting rarer species. As Dave noted some rare bird reports
> have little or no associate documentation to support the sighting, but
> there are also sightings or "heard only" rare species that are reported as
> more common species because of lack of confidence or familiarity. I have
> seen this many times and have encouraged birders to submit sightings with
> notes to aid review. This may be more prevalent than people think. We
> probably have all seen this with numbers. Very large species counts require
> confirmation so people reduce the count to a number that doesn’t reach the
> trigger.
>
> All these new tools should really help the citizen science eBird database
> become more useful. Amateur birders as observers will never be perfect, but
> on a huge data set it doesn’t really matter that a few sightings are
> inaccurate as they are overwhelmed; 100% is a target.
> It’ll be fun to hear about more weird sound ID’s. as people find every
> quirk. It won’t be long we can just leave our phones outside on “record”
> and and drink coffee while the bird list in generated.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2021, at 3:28 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I think the Library of Natural Sound used to ask, when archiving audio,
> whether the bird was seen to make the call. Now, when people include audio
> with eBird submissions, that question is not asked, and sometimes people
> are clearly guessing, even against the advice of apps intended to help them
> ID the calls. I recently checked Macaulay trying to learn more about
> Black-billed Cuckoo calls. Because at many places and times the species is
> not rare, I think the recordings go directly from eBird to Macaulay without
> any review. Before I found any audio recordings which were verified by
> sight, I found 2 examples of people labeling Chipmunk calls as cuckoos and
> 1 Yellow-billed labeled as Black-billed. My confidence in Macaulay as a
> source of information was shaken.
>
> Recently an enthusiastic young collector of rare bird reports claimed on
> the basis of hearing alone that there were 2 Worm-eating Warblers singing
> at a new location in Tompkins County, a county where the species is always
> rare yet is regularly found in one location where it’s a lot of trouble to
> climb a steep slope. Maybe that person is competent to make that judgement.
> Maybe there are plenty of birders who can. I know I can’t, and clearly
> Merlin can’t. I sure would appreciate people noting in their eBird reports
> whether their audio contributions are of birds they also identified by
> sight while the bird was recorded making the noise, or whether the bird was
> not seen.
>
> - - Dave Nutter
>
> On Jul 9, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Linda Orkin  wrote:
>
> Thanks Jay and Alicia. I didn’t see first reply though I was looking for
> it. Appreciate it.
> I am going to try the uploading to eBird. I didn’t know you could do that
> It’s interesting looking at the spectrogram and comparing between the
> trillers too. Although obviously not foolproof it can help you hear the
> notes in a slightly different  way.
>
> Linda
>
> On Jul 9, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Alicia  wrote:
>
>  Hi Linda,
>
> Jay replied a couple days ago - forwarded  below.
>
> Best -
>
> Alicia
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Possible Worm-eating Warblers in Lansing NY
> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:02:10 -0400
> From: Jay McGowan  
> Reply-To: Jay McGowan  
> To: Linda Orkin  
> CC: Barbara Bauer Sadovnic  ,
> KitKat PonyBird  ,
> Cayugabirds-L  
>
> Hi Linda,
> Yes, clicking 

Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Gary Kohlenberg]

Some are finding the new Merlin sound ID app has some deficiencies with 
difficult species, like the trillers. For myself, I have been blown away by the 
fun and accuracy of such a new application. I wouldn’t base a heard only rare 
bird report totally on this app yet, but it sure will be handy to add 
confidence to a sighting. It will always be better to eBird sightings, with 
notes / photo / audio attached, for the tough ones.

The times I have used Merlin I was surprised by the ability of the app to pick 
out background songs that I wasn’t even aware of at the time. I just assumed it 
would only ID the loudest song while ignoring the rest. I’m sure as time goes 
on the learning logic will make it more accurate as the photo application has 
become. I would guess that people with specific frequency hearing loss will 
find it useful for some species that may not sound like they used too.
I’m sure people can fool Merlin with a good song imitation so I wonder about 
mimic species. If a mockingbird is singing a N. Cardinal song will it ID the 
cardinal and should we count it. ;)

One benefit that may be realized is an increased confidence with some birders 
on reporting rarer species. As Dave noted some rare bird reports have little or 
no associate documentation to support the sighting, but there are also 
sightings or "heard only" rare species that are reported as more common species 
because of lack of confidence or familiarity. I have seen this many times and 
have encouraged birders to submit sightings with notes to aid review. This may 
be more prevalent than people think. We probably have all seen this with 
numbers. Very large species counts require confirmation so people reduce the 
count to a number that doesn’t reach the trigger.

All these new tools should really help the citizen science eBird database 
become more useful. Amateur birders as observers will never be perfect, but on 
a huge data set it doesn’t really matter that a few sightings are inaccurate as 
they are overwhelmed; 100% is a target.
It’ll be fun to hear about more weird sound ID’s. as people find every quirk. 
It won’t be long we can just leave our phones outside on “record” and and drink 
coffee while the bird list in generated.

Gary





On Jul 9, 2021, at 3:28 PM, Dave Nutter 
mailto:nutter.d...@me.com>> wrote:

Hi all,
I think the Library of Natural Sound used to ask, when archiving audio, whether 
the bird was seen to make the call. Now, when people include audio with eBird 
submissions, that question is not asked, and sometimes people are clearly 
guessing, even against the advice of apps intended to help them ID the calls. I 
recently checked Macaulay trying to learn more about Black-billed Cuckoo calls. 
Because at many places and times the species is not rare, I think the 
recordings go directly from eBird to Macaulay without any review. Before I 
found any audio recordings which were verified by sight, I found 2 examples of 
people labeling Chipmunk calls as cuckoos and 1 Yellow-billed labeled as 
Black-billed. My confidence in Macaulay as a source of information was shaken.

Recently an enthusiastic young collector of rare bird reports claimed on the 
basis of hearing alone that there were 2 Worm-eating Warblers singing at a new 
location in Tompkins County, a county where the species is always rare yet is 
regularly found in one location where it’s a lot of trouble to climb a steep 
slope. Maybe that person is competent to make that judgement. Maybe there are 
plenty of birders who can. I know I can’t, and clearly Merlin can’t. I sure 
would appreciate people noting in their eBird reports whether their audio 
contributions are of birds they also identified by sight while the bird was 
recorded making the noise, or whether the bird was not seen.

- - Dave Nutter

On Jul 9, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Linda Orkin 
mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks Jay and Alicia. I didn’t see first reply though I was looking for it. 
Appreciate it.
I am going to try the uploading to eBird. I didn’t know you could do that
It’s interesting looking at the spectrogram and comparing between the trillers 
too. Although obviously not foolproof it can help you hear the notes in a 
slightly different  way.

Linda
On Jul 9, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Alicia 
mailto:t...@ottcmail.com>> wrote:

 Hi Linda,

Jay replied a couple days ago - forwarded  below.

Best -

Alicia


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [cayugabirds-l] Possible Worm-eating Warblers in Lansing NY
Date:   Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:02:10 -0400
From:   Jay McGowan 
Reply-To:   Jay McGowan 
To: Linda Orkin 
CC: Barbara Bauer Sadovnic , 
KitKat PonyBird , 
Cayugabirds-L 


Hi Linda,
Yes, clicking that will give us a record of it, but it won't be a lot to go on 
otherwise. One thing that 

Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Tim Gallagher]

I've been trying the Merlin sound app out on birds that I knew the identity of 
beforehand, just to see how well it works. It's usually pretty good, but I've 
seen it make some amazingly bad mistakes, so I wouldn't trust it to identify a 
rare bird unless I positively identified it myself. For example, I recorded 
some feral Rock Pigeons cooing softly within 10 feet of me, and it identified 
the sounds as Great Horned Owl. I also recorded a recently fledged American 
Robin calling and Merlin listed almost everything but a robin—Cedar Waxwing, 
House Sparrow, Northern Cardinal, and Chimney Swift. I do think it's a good 
learning tool, but people shouldn't base a bird identification on this app 
alone without verifying it.

Tim Gallagher


From: bounce-125759747-10557...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of Dave Nutter 

Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 3:28 PM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
Subject: Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

Hi all,
I think the Library of Natural Sound used to ask, when archiving audio, whether 
the bird was seen to make the call. Now, when people include audio with eBird 
submissions, that question is not asked, and sometimes people are clearly 
guessing, even against the advice of apps intended to help them ID the calls. I 
recently checked Macaulay trying to learn more about Black-billed Cuckoo calls. 
Because at many places and times the species is not rare, I think the 
recordings go directly from eBird to Macaulay without any review. Before I 
found any audio recordings which were verified by sight, I found 2 examples of 
people labeling Chipmunk calls as cuckoos and 1 Yellow-billed labeled as 
Black-billed. My confidence in Macaulay as a source of information was shaken.

Recently an enthusiastic young collector of rare bird reports claimed on the 
basis of hearing alone that there were 2 Worm-eating Warblers singing at a new 
location in Tompkins County, a county where the species is always rare yet is 
regularly found in one location where it’s a lot of trouble to climb a steep 
slope. Maybe that person is competent to make that judgement. Maybe there are 
plenty of birders who can. I know I can’t, and clearly Merlin can’t. I sure 
would appreciate people noting in their eBird reports whether their audio 
contributions are of birds they also identified by sight while the bird was 
recorded making the noise, or whether the bird was not seen.

- - Dave Nutter

On Jul 9, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Linda Orkin 
mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks Jay and Alicia. I didn’t see first reply though I was looking for it. 
Appreciate it.
I am going to try the uploading to eBird. I didn’t know you could do that
It’s interesting looking at the spectrogram and comparing between the trillers 
too. Although obviously not foolproof it can help you hear the notes in a 
slightly different  way.

Linda
On Jul 9, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Alicia 
mailto:t...@ottcmail.com>> wrote:

 Hi Linda,

Jay replied a couple days ago - forwarded  below.

Best -

Alicia


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [cayugabirds-l] Possible Worm-eating Warblers in Lansing NY
Date:   Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:02:10 -0400
From:   Jay McGowan <mailto:jw...@cornell.edu>
Reply-To:   Jay McGowan <mailto:jw...@cornell.edu>
To: Linda Orkin <mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>
CC: Barbara Bauer Sadovnic <mailto:bsadov...@htva.net>, 
KitKat PonyBird <mailto:kitkatponyb...@gmail.com>, 
Cayugabirds-L <mailto:Cayugabirds-L@cornell.edu>


Hi Linda,
Yes, clicking that will give us a record of it, but it won't be a lot to go on 
otherwise. One thing that will help long-term would be to make a recording of 
the bird, then upload it to an eBird checklist (doing some light editing 
following our best 
practices<https://support.ebird.org/en/support/solutions/articles/48001064341-audio-preparation-and-upload-guidelines>
 whenever possible). This won't have any immediate effect on the model of 
course, but longer term it will provide us with more diverse examples to train 
on.

Jay

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:34 AM Linda Orkin 
mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Jay I wonder if you can say what we should do if we know song ID is incorrect. 
I got worm eating warbler for chipping sparrow down by vas’s park rink today 
and I clicked no match. Is that the best way to tri and alert Merlin to an 
incorrect choice?

Linda Orkin

On Jul 6, 2021, at 10:32 AM, Jay McGowan 
mailto:jw...@cornell.edu>> wrote:


This is a good reminder that the new Sound ID function in Merlin is a great way 
to cue into new sounds and learn to ID birds, but should never be taken as the 
final word on an identification. In this case, trilling species like 
Worm-eating Warbler, Chipping Sparrow, Dark-eyed Junco, and even Pine Warbler 
can be challenging for even experienced birders to identify with confidence, 
and the sound ID model has 

Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Linda Orkin]

Very good point Dave.  I was thinking the same. I am slightly competent with 
bird vocalizing id but if I uploaded a recording I would not be comfortable 
saying what it was unless I saw it, especially with these confusing and 
overlapping ones. Two years ago there was a particular junco singing in the 
woods above flat rock. It was the driest insect like trill you could ever 
imagine. I tried 5 different times before I found him and could be sure he 
wasn’t some rare other guy. 

Thanks Sandy too. I seemed to remember from previous years that pine warbler 
would continue singing deep into the season

Linda Orkin 



> On Jul 9, 2021, at 3:28 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, 
> I think the Library of Natural Sound used to ask, when archiving audio, 
> whether the bird was seen to make the call. Now, when people include audio 
> with eBird submissions, that question is not asked, and sometimes people are 
> clearly guessing, even against the advice of apps intended to help them ID 
> the calls. I recently checked Macaulay trying to learn more about 
> Black-billed Cuckoo calls. Because at many places and times the species is 
> not rare, I think the recordings go directly from eBird to Macaulay without 
> any review. Before I found any audio recordings which were verified by sight, 
> I found 2 examples of people labeling Chipmunk calls as cuckoos and 1 
> Yellow-billed labeled as Black-billed. My confidence in Macaulay as a source 
> of information was shaken.
> 
> Recently an enthusiastic young collector of rare bird reports claimed on the 
> basis of hearing alone that there were 2 Worm-eating Warblers singing at a 
> new location in Tompkins County, a county where the species is always rare 
> yet is regularly found in one location where it’s a lot of trouble to climb a 
> steep slope. Maybe that person is competent to make that judgement. Maybe 
> there are plenty of birders who can. I know I can’t, and clearly Merlin 
> can’t. I sure would appreciate people noting in their eBird reports whether 
> their audio contributions are of birds they also identified by sight while 
> the bird was recorded making the noise, or whether the bird was not seen. 
> 
> - - Dave Nutter
> 
>> On Jul 9, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Linda Orkin  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Jay and Alicia. I didn’t see first reply though I was looking for it. 
>> Appreciate it. 
>> I am going to try the uploading to eBird. I didn’t know you could do that 
>> It’s interesting looking at the spectrogram and comparing between the 
>> trillers too. Although obviously not foolproof it can help you hear the 
>> notes in a slightly different  way. 
>> 
>> Linda 
>>> On Jul 9, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Alicia  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Hi Linda,
>>> 
>>> Jay replied a couple days ago - forwarded  below.
>>> 
>>> Best -
>>> 
>>> Alicia
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> Subject:Re: [cayugabirds-l] Possible Worm-eating Warblers in Lansing NY
>>> Date:   Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:02:10 -0400
>>> From:   Jay McGowan 
>>> Reply-To:   Jay McGowan 
>>> To: Linda Orkin 
>>> CC: Barbara Bauer Sadovnic , KitKat PonyBird 
>>> , Cayugabirds-L 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Linda,
>>> Yes, clicking that will give us a record of it, but it won't be a lot to go 
>>> on otherwise. One thing that will help long-term would be to make a 
>>> recording of the bird, then upload it to an eBird checklist (doing some 
>>> light editing following our best practices whenever possible). This won't 
>>> have any immediate effect on the model of course, but longer term it will 
>>> provide us with more diverse examples to train on.
>>> 
>>> Jay
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:34 AM Linda Orkin  wrote:
 Jay I wonder if you can say what we should do if we know song ID is 
 incorrect. I got worm eating warbler for chipping sparrow down by vas’s 
 park rink today and I clicked no match. Is that the best way to tri and 
 alert Merlin to an incorrect choice?
 
 Linda Orkin
 
> On Jul 6, 2021, at 10:32 AM, Jay McGowan  wrote:
> 
> 
> This is a good reminder that the new Sound ID function in Merlin is a 
> great way to cue into new sounds and learn to ID birds, but should never 
> be taken as the final word on an identification. In this case, trilling 
> species like Worm-eating Warbler, Chipping Sparrow, Dark-eyed Junco, and 
> even Pine Warbler can be challenging for even experienced birders to 
> identify with confidence, and the sound ID model has trouble being sure 
> as well. Juncos in particular pose a challenge, with their extreme 
> variation between individuals. So certainly, if you're in the right 
> habitat, look a little harder for a bird flagged as a possible 
> Worm-eating, but in the cases you describe, these were almost certainly 
> Chipping Sparrows.
> 
> P.S. I'd be happy to take a listen to a recording if you want to send it 
> privately.
> 
> Jay
> 
> On Sun, Jul 4, 

Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Dave Nutter]

Hi all, 
I think the Library of Natural Sound used to ask, when archiving audio, whether 
the bird was seen to make the call. Now, when people include audio with eBird 
submissions, that question is not asked, and sometimes people are clearly 
guessing, even against the advice of apps intended to help them ID the calls. I 
recently checked Macaulay trying to learn more about Black-billed Cuckoo calls. 
Because at many places and times the species is not rare, I think the 
recordings go directly from eBird to Macaulay without any review. Before I 
found any audio recordings which were verified by sight, I found 2 examples of 
people labeling Chipmunk calls as cuckoos and 1 Yellow-billed labeled as 
Black-billed. My confidence in Macaulay as a source of information was shaken.

Recently an enthusiastic young collector of rare bird reports claimed on the 
basis of hearing alone that there were 2 Worm-eating Warblers singing at a new 
location in Tompkins County, a county where the species is always rare yet is 
regularly found in one location where it’s a lot of trouble to climb a steep 
slope. Maybe that person is competent to make that judgement. Maybe there are 
plenty of birders who can. I know I can’t, and clearly Merlin can’t. I sure 
would appreciate people noting in their eBird reports whether their audio 
contributions are of birds they also identified by sight while the bird was 
recorded making the noise, or whether the bird was not seen. 

- - Dave Nutter

> On Jul 9, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Linda Orkin  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Jay and Alicia. I didn’t see first reply though I was looking for it. 
> Appreciate it. 
> I am going to try the uploading to eBird. I didn’t know you could do that 
> It’s interesting looking at the spectrogram and comparing between the 
> trillers too. Although obviously not foolproof it can help you hear the notes 
> in a slightly different  way. 
> 
> Linda 
>> On Jul 9, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Alicia  wrote:
>> 
>>  Hi Linda,
>> 
>> Jay replied a couple days ago - forwarded  below.
>> 
>> Best -
>> 
>> Alicia
>> 
>> 
>>  Forwarded Message 
>> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Possible Worm-eating Warblers in Lansing NY
>> Date:Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:02:10 -0400
>> From:Jay McGowan 
>> Reply-To:Jay McGowan 
>> To:  Linda Orkin 
>> CC:  Barbara Bauer Sadovnic , KitKat PonyBird 
>> , Cayugabirds-L 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Linda,
>> Yes, clicking that will give us a record of it, but it won't be a lot to go 
>> on otherwise. One thing that will help long-term would be to make a 
>> recording of the bird, then upload it to an eBird checklist (doing some 
>> light editing following our best practices whenever possible). This won't 
>> have any immediate effect on the model of course, but longer term it will 
>> provide us with more diverse examples to train on.
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:34 AM Linda Orkin  wrote:
>>> Jay I wonder if you can say what we should do if we know song ID is 
>>> incorrect. I got worm eating warbler for chipping sparrow down by vas’s 
>>> park rink today and I clicked no match. Is that the best way to tri and 
>>> alert Merlin to an incorrect choice?
>>> 
>>> Linda Orkin
>>> 
 On Jul 6, 2021, at 10:32 AM, Jay McGowan
   wrote:
 
 
 This is a good reminder that the new Sound ID function in Merlin is a 
 great way to cue into new sounds and learn to ID birds, but should never 
 be taken as the final word on an identification. In this case, trilling 
 species like Worm-eating Warbler, Chipping Sparrow, Dark-eyed Junco, and 
 even Pine Warbler can be challenging for even experienced birders to 
 identify with confidence, and the sound ID model has trouble being sure as 
 well. Juncos in particular pose a challenge, with their extreme variation 
 between individuals. So certainly, if you're in the right habitat, look a 
 little harder for a bird flagged as a possible Worm-eating, but in the 
 cases you describe, these were almost certainly Chipping Sparrows.
 
 P.S. I'd be happy to take a listen to a recording if you want to send it 
 privately.
 
 Jay
 
> On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 6:38 PM Barbara Bauer Sadovnic 
>  wrote:
> The same thing happened to me today, also while eating breakfast on my 
> porch, in Enfield!  I also tried BirdNET, and got the same result, 
> although that might have been a “wild guess.” When I went looking for it 
> I thought I saw a chipping sparrow, but couldn’t get a good look.
> 
> Later in the day the bird (I think the same bird) was closer, and was 
> identified as a chipping sparrow. But I couldn’t find it.
> 
> Just now I heard it again, and again Merlin thought “worm-eating 
> warbler.”  When I got closer Merlin changed his mind to chipping sparrow, 
> and when I finally got a good look, I did see chipping sparrow, singing.
> 
> I am really 

Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Linda Orkin]

Thanks Jay and Alicia. I didn’t see first reply though I was looking for it. 
Appreciate it. 
I am going to try the uploading to eBird. I didn’t know you could do that 
It’s interesting looking at the spectrogram and comparing between the trillers 
too. Although obviously not foolproof it can help you hear the notes in a 
slightly different  way. 

Linda 
> On Jul 9, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Alicia  wrote:
> 
>  Hi Linda,
> 
> Jay replied a couple days ago - forwarded  below.
> 
> Best -
> 
> Alicia
> 
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:  Re: [cayugabirds-l] Possible Worm-eating Warblers in Lansing NY
> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:02:10 -0400
> From: Jay McGowan 
> Reply-To: Jay McGowan 
> To:   Linda Orkin 
> CC:   Barbara Bauer Sadovnic , KitKat PonyBird 
> , Cayugabirds-L 
> 
> 
> Hi Linda,
> Yes, clicking that will give us a record of it, but it won't be a lot to go 
> on otherwise. One thing that will help long-term would be to make a recording 
> of the bird, then upload it to an eBird checklist (doing some light editing 
> following our best practices whenever possible). This won't have any 
> immediate effect on the model of course, but longer term it will provide us 
> with more diverse examples to train on.
> 
> Jay
> 
> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:34 AM Linda Orkin  wrote:
>> Jay I wonder if you can say what we should do if we know song ID is 
>> incorrect. I got worm eating warbler for chipping sparrow down by vas’s park 
>> rink today and I clicked no match. Is that the best way to tri and alert 
>> Merlin to an incorrect choice?
>> 
>> Linda Orkin
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2021, at 10:32 AM, Jay McGowan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is a good reminder that the new Sound ID function in Merlin is a great 
>>> way to cue into new sounds and learn to ID birds, but should never be taken 
>>> as the final word on an identification. In this case, trilling species like 
>>> Worm-eating Warbler, Chipping Sparrow, Dark-eyed Junco, and even Pine 
>>> Warbler can be challenging for even experienced birders to identify with 
>>> confidence, and the sound ID model has trouble being sure as well. Juncos 
>>> in particular pose a challenge, with their extreme variation between 
>>> individuals. So certainly, if you're in the right habitat, look a little 
>>> harder for a bird flagged as a possible Worm-eating, but in the cases you 
>>> describe, these were almost certainly Chipping Sparrows.
>>> 
>>> P.S. I'd be happy to take a listen to a recording if you want to send it 
>>> privately.
>>> 
>>> Jay
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 6:38 PM Barbara Bauer Sadovnic  
>>> wrote:
 The same thing happened to me today, also while eating breakfast on my 
 porch, in Enfield!  I also tried BirdNET, and got the same result, 
 although that might have been a “wild guess.” When I went looking for it I 
 thought I saw a chipping sparrow, but couldn’t get a good look.
 
 Later in the day the bird (I think the same bird) was closer, and was 
 identified as a chipping sparrow. But I couldn’t find it.
 
 Just now I heard it again, and again Merlin thought “worm-eating warbler.” 
  When I got closer Merlin changed his mind to chipping sparrow, and when I 
 finally got a good look, I did see chipping sparrow, singing.
 
 I am really enjoying the new Merlin.
 
> On Jul 4, 2021, at 1:15 PM, KitKat PonyBird  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> While enjoying breakfast on my back porch today, I heard an unfamiliar 
> bird.  The new Sound ID on the Merlin app came up with Worm-eating 
> Warbler.
> 
> Merlin says this bird is rare for this area.  I heard at least three of 
> the same song from different locations at nearly the same time.  Still 
> hearing them around.
> 
> I did a couple of recordings, but don't know (yet) how to share them.  
> It's definitely different from the chipping sparrows I usually hear.
> 
> Wish I'd been able to get a visual.
> 
> Happy Birding
> --
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jay McGowan
>>> Macaulay Library
>>> Cornell Lab of Ornithology
>>> jw...@cornell.edu
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> 

Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Alicia]

Hi Linda,

Jay replied a couple days ago - forwarded  below.

Best -

Alicia


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [cayugabirds-l] Possible Worm-eating Warblers in Lansing NY
Date:   Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:02:10 -0400
From:   Jay McGowan 
Reply-To:   Jay McGowan 
To: Linda Orkin 
CC: Barbara Bauer Sadovnic , KitKat PonyBird 
, Cayugabirds-L 



Hi Linda,
Yes, clicking that will give us a record of it, but it won't be a lot to 
go on otherwise. One thing that will help long-term would be to make a 
recording of the bird, then upload it to an eBird checklist (doing some 
light editing following our best practices 

 
whenever possible). This won't have any immediate effect on the model of 
course, but longer term it will provide us with more diverse examples to 
train on.

Jay

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:34 AM Linda Orkin mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Jay I wonder if you can say what we should do if we know song ID is
incorrect. I got worm eating warbler for chipping sparrow down by
vas’s park rink today and I clicked no match. Is that the best way
to tri and alert Merlin to an incorrect choice?

Linda Orkin

> On Jul 6, 2021, at 10:32 AM, Jay McGowan  > wrote:
>
> 
> This is a good reminder that the new Sound ID function in Merlin
> is a great way to cue into new sounds and learn to ID birds, but
> should never be taken as the final word on an identification. In
> this case, trilling species like Worm-eating Warbler, Chipping
> Sparrow, Dark-eyed Junco, and even Pine Warbler can be challenging
> for even experienced birders to identify with confidence, and the
> sound ID model has trouble being sure as well. Juncos in
> particular pose a challenge, with their extreme variation between
> individuals. So certainly, if you're in the right habitat, look a
> little harder for a bird flagged as a possible Worm-eating, but in
> the cases you describe, these were almost certainly Chipping
> Sparrows.
>
> P.S. I'd be happy to take a listen to a recording if you want to
> send it privately.
>
> Jay
>
> On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 6:38 PM Barbara Bauer Sadovnic
> mailto:bsadov...@htva.net>> wrote:
>
> The same thing happened to me today, also while eating
> breakfast on my porch, in Enfield!  I also tried BirdNET, and
> got the same result, although that might have been a “wild
> guess.” When I went looking for it I thought I saw a chipping
> sparrow, but couldn’t get a good look.
>
> Later in the day the bird (I think the same bird) was closer,
> and was identified as a chipping sparrow. But I couldn’t find it.
>
> Just now I heard it again, and again Merlin thought
> “worm-eating warbler.”  When I got closer Merlin changed his
> mind to chipping sparrow, and when I finally got a good look,
> I did see chipping sparrow, singing.
>
> I am really enjoying the new Merlin.
>
>> On Jul 4, 2021, at 1:15 PM, KitKat PonyBird
>> mailto:kitkatponyb...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> While enjoying breakfast on my back porch today, I heard an
>> unfamiliar bird.  The new Sound ID on the Merlin app came up
>> with Worm-eating Warbler.
>>
>> Merlin says this bird is rare for this area.  I heard at
>> least three of the same song from different locations at
>> nearly the same time.  Still hearing them around.
>>
>> I did a couple of recordings, but don't know (yet) how to
>> share them. It's definitely different from the chipping
>> sparrows I usually hear.
>>
>> Wish I'd been able to get a visual.
>>
>> Happy Birding
>> --
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>> 
>> Rules and Information
>> 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
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>> !*
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> 
> Rules and Information
> 
> Subscribe, 

Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Donna Lee Scott]

So far when I use Merlin here, I get correct IDs for Chipping Sparrows & juncos

Donna Scott
Lansing
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 9, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Peter Saracino  wrote:


I like all the additional "sounds" on Merlin too!
Sar

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 12:47 PM Linda Orkin 
mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The worm eating warbler is a interesting weak link. For all the trillers I 
capture it has said worm eating except for one time ChIpping Sparrow corrector 
id’d and one time pine warbler which I thought was likely wrong although it 
could have been right as it was at the top of the hill in the arboretum where 
there are pine warblers. It would just seem late in the season to me but that’s 
just me guessing on timing.
I asked but no one answered so maybe no one knows but if you know Merlin choice 
is inaccurate are you supposed to click “no match”?

It’s very fun to use Merlin especially to confirm your own vocal id. One thing 
I’m really liking is the number of other vocalizations like chips and flight 
calls that are also available

Linda Orkin

On Jul 9, 2021, at 10:20 AM, Peter Saracino 
mailto:petersarac...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I played the song of a junco from IBird pro on one electronic device and 
listened using Birdnet with another electronic device. The devices were side by 
side.
Birdnet said it was a worm eating warbler. I did so after having been fooled by 
juncos at Lindsay Parsons a number of times.
After birdnet failed I didn't feel so badly...
Pete Sar


On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 10:07 AM Donna Lee Scott 
mailto:d...@cornell.edu>> wrote:
 I have been “testing” the Merlin bird sound ID here on Lans. station Rd. with 
birds I know ( or think I know).
This morning it correctly ID’d an atypical, more squeaky call of E. Phoebe.
Later, it quickly ID’d a singing Brown Thrasher & a couple minutes later, the 
mimic serenade of a Gray Catbird about 70 feet away from the tree Thrasher was 
in.
I notice that when a few different birds are calling or singing, Merlin posts 
all of them in a list of birds ID’d.
& in a yard first, I now have a Turkey Vulture perched atop one of my bird 
feeder posts! It’s wings are spread out in the sun.

Donna Scott
Lansing
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: More on Merlin Re: [cayugabirds-l] Merlin results/Turkey Vulture

[Peter Saracino]

I like all the additional "sounds" on Merlin too!
Sar

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 12:47 PM Linda Orkin  wrote:

> The worm eating warbler is a interesting weak link. For all the trillers I
> capture it has said worm eating except for one time ChIpping Sparrow
> corrector id’d and one time pine warbler which I thought was likely wrong
> although it could have been right as it was at the top of the hill in the
> arboretum where there are pine warblers. It would just seem late in the
> season to me but that’s just me guessing on timing.
> I asked but no one answered so maybe no one knows but if you know Merlin
> choice is inaccurate are you supposed to click “no match”?
>
> It’s very fun to use Merlin especially to confirm your own vocal id. One
> thing I’m really liking is the number of other vocalizations like chips and
> flight calls that are also available
>
> Linda Orkin
>
> On Jul 9, 2021, at 10:20 AM, Peter Saracino 
> wrote:
>
> 
> I played the song of a junco from IBird pro on one electronic device and
> listened using Birdnet with another electronic device. The devices were
> side by side.
> Birdnet said it was a worm eating warbler. I did so after having been
> fooled by juncos at Lindsay Parsons a number of times.
> After birdnet failed I didn't feel so badly...
> Pete Sar
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 10:07 AM Donna Lee Scott  wrote:
>
>>  I have been “testing” the Merlin bird sound ID here on Lans. station Rd.
>> with birds I know ( or think I know).
>> This morning it correctly ID’d an atypical, more squeaky call of E.
>> Phoebe.
>> Later, it quickly ID’d a singing Brown Thrasher & a couple minutes later,
>> the mimic serenade of a Gray Catbird about 70 feet away from the tree
>> Thrasher was in.
>> I notice that when a few different birds are calling or singing, Merlin
>> posts all of them in a list of birds ID’d.
>> & in a yard first, I now have a Turkey Vulture perched atop one of my
>> bird feeder posts! It’s wings are spread out in the sun.
>>
>> Donna Scott
>> Lansing
>> Sent from my iPhone
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