Re: [ccp4bb] [phenixbb] C-beta RMSD

2015-06-26 Thread Douglas Theobald
THESEUS can do it, and it comes bundled with ccp4 so definitely on-topic. If you want RMSD of “equivalent” amino acids, you must tell THESEUS which residues are equivalent with a sequence alignment. Then use the -I option to get the RMSD (and other stats) of the pdb files in their current

Re: [ccp4bb] [phenixbb] Allignment of multiple structures

2015-06-01 Thread Douglas Theobald
THESEUS should be able to do it rather easily. You can email me offlist if you need some guidance. On Jun 1, 2015, at 3:53 PM, jens j birktoft birkt...@nyu.edu wrote: I apologize if this question this question has been asked before but I still need help finding an answer to the

Re: [ccp4bb] [RANT] Reject Papers describing non-open source software

2015-05-12 Thread Douglas Theobald
On May 12, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Robbie Joosten robbie_joos...@hotmail.com wrote: I strongly disagree with rejecting paper for any other reasons than scientific ones. I agree, but … one of the foundations of science is independent replicability and verifiability. In practice, for me to be able

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-07-24 Thread Douglas Theobald
Hi Randy, So I've been playing around with equations myself, and I have some alternative results. As I understand your Mathematica stuff, you are using the data model: ip = ij + ib' ib where ip is the measured peak (before any background correction), and ij is a random sample from the

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-07-08 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Jul 7, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 June 2013 01:13, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: I admittedly don't understand TDS well. But I thought it was generally assumed that TDS contributes rather little to the conventional background

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-28 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Jun 27, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 June 2013 19:39, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: So I'm no detector expert by any means, but I have been assured by those who are that there are non-Poissonian sources of noise --- I believe mostly

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-22 Thread Douglas Theobald
you are using a (non-physical) Gaussian model. Feel free to prove me wrong --- can you derive Ispot-Iback, as an estimate of Itrue, from anything besides a Gaussian? Cheers, Douglas On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 June 2013 19:45, Douglas Theobald

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-22 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.eduwrote: Feel free to prove me wrong --- can you derive Ispot-Iback, as an estimate of Itrue, from anything besides a Gaussian? OK, I'll prove myself wrong. Ispot-Iback can be derived as an estimate of Itrue, even when

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-22 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 June 2013 18:04, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: --- but in truth the Poisson model does not account for other physical sources of error that arise from real crystals and real detectors, such as dark

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-22 Thread Douglas Theobald
? Cheers phx On 22/06/2013 18:04, Douglas Theobald wrote: Ian, I really do think we are almost saying the same thing. Let me try to clarify. You say that the Gaussian model is not the correct data model, and that the Poisson is correct. I more-or-less agree. If I were being pedantic

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-21 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Jun 21, 2013, at 8:36 AM, Ed Pozharski epozh...@umaryland.edu wrote: On 06/20/2013 01:07 PM, Douglas Theobald wrote: How can there be nothing wrong with something that is unphysical? Intensities cannot be negative. I think you are confusing two things - the true intensities

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-21 Thread Douglas Theobald
. The Ispot-Iback=Iobs does not follow from a Poisson assumption. On Jun 21, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 June 2013 17:10, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: Yes there is. The only way you can get a negative estimate is to make unphysical assumptions

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-21 Thread Douglas Theobald
in the end compared with the 'post-correction' we're doing now? Cheers -- Ian On 20 June 2013 18:14, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: I still don't see how you get a negative intensity from that. It seems you are saying that in many cases of a low intensity reflection

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-21 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Jun 21, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Ed Pozharski epozh...@umaryland.edu wrote: Douglas, Observed intensities are the best estimates that we can come up with in an experiment. I also agree with this, and this is the clincher. You are arguing that Ispot-Iback=Iobs is the best estimate we can come

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-21 Thread Douglas Theobald
:34 AM, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: I kinda think we're saying the same thing, sort of. You don't like the Gaussian assumption, and neither do I. If you make the reasonable Poisson assumptions, then you don't get the Ispot-Iback=Iobs for the best estimate of Itrue

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
Just trying to understand the basic issues here. How could refining directly against intensities solve the fundamental problem of negative intensity values? On Jun 20, 2013, at 11:34 AM, Bernhard Rupp hofkristall...@gmail.com wrote: As a maybe better alternative, we should (once again)

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
values for all models maybe we could get a start toward moving to intensity refinement. Dale Tronrud On 06/20/2013 09:06 AM, Douglas Theobald wrote: Just trying to understand the basic issues here. How could refining directly against intensities solve the fundamental problem of negative

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
generated from the sigma's on I, and are very much undetermined for small intensities and small F's. Small molecule crystallographers routinely refine on F^2 and use all of the data, even if the F^2's are negative. Bernie On Jun 20, 2013, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Theobald wrote: Seems to me

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
:49, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: Seems to me that the negative Is should be dealt with early on, in the integration step. Why exactly do integration programs report negative Is to begin with? On Jun 20, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Dom Bellini dom.bell...@diamond.ac.uk wrote

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
, Department of Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il Tel: ++972-3640-8723 Fax: ++972-3640-9407 Cellular: 0547 459 608 On Jun 20, 2013, at 20:07 , Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
-0400, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: I still don't see how you get a negative intensity from that. It seems you are saying that in many cases of a low intensity reflection, the integrated spot will be lower than the background. That is not equivalent to having a negative

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
21:27, schrieb Douglas Theobald: Kay, I understand the French-Wilson way of currently doing things, as you outline below. My point is that it is not optimal --- we could do things better --- since even French-Wilson accepts the idea of negative intensity measurements. I am trying to disabuse

Re: [ccp4bb] Strand distorsion and residue disconnectivity in pymol

2013-05-30 Thread Douglas Theobald
To me, that's not a problem. The wavy representation is more accurate (as far as cartoon accuracy can go), as the strand actually follows the alpha carbons. This is why Pauling called it a pleated sheet --- it's got pleats. Beta sheets/strands *should* be wavy. On May 29, 2013, at 11:29

Re: [ccp4bb] how to update phenix

2013-02-11 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Tim Gruene t...@shelx.uni-ac.gwdg.de wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-- Hash: SHA1 Dear Bill, I disagree to your criticism. From http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/ccp4bb.php: CCP4bb is an electronic mailing list intended to host discussions about topics of general

Re: [ccp4bb] refining against weak data and Table I stats

2012-12-13 Thread Douglas Theobald
case, and 25 to 2.0 which would be more reassuring. eab Douglas Theobald wrote: Hi Ed, Thanks for the comments. So what do you recommend? Refine against weak data, and report all stats in a single Table I? Looking at your latest V-ATPase structure paper, it appears you favor

Re: [ccp4bb] refining against weak data and Table I stats

2012-12-07 Thread Douglas Theobald
in the PDB is 0.99 but in your table 1* says 1.3? Douglas Theobald wrote: Hello all, I've followed with interest the discussions here about how we should be refining against weak data, e.g. data with I/sigI 2 (perhaps using all bins that have a significant CC1/2 per Karplus and Diederichs 2012

Re: [ccp4bb] refining against weak data and Table I stats

2012-12-07 Thread Douglas Theobald
of the Negev Beer-Sheva 84105 Israel E-mail: bshaa...@bgu.ac.il Phone: 972-8-647-2220 Skype: boaz.shaanan Fax: 972-8-647-2992 or 972-8-646-1710 From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Douglas Theobald [dtheob

Re: [ccp4bb] refining against weak data and Table I stats

2012-12-07 Thread Douglas Theobald
=100 (or 99.9) mean? Does it mean the data is as good as it gets? Alan On 07/12/2012 17:15, Douglas Theobald wrote: Hi Boaz, I read the KK paper as primarily a justification for including extremely weak data in refinement (and of course introducing a new single statistic that can

[ccp4bb] refining against weak data and Table I stats

2012-12-06 Thread Douglas Theobald
Hello all, I've followed with interest the discussions here about how we should be refining against weak data, e.g. data with I/sigI 2 (perhaps using all bins that have a significant CC1/2 per Karplus and Diederichs 2012). This all makes statistical sense to me, but now I am wondering how I

Re: [ccp4bb] vitrification vs freezing

2012-11-16 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Nov 16, 2012, at 10:27 AM, Enrico Stura est...@cea.fr wrote: As a referee I also dislike the word freezing but only if improperly used: The crystals were frozen in LN2 is not acceptable because it is the outside liquor that is rapidly cooled to cryogenic temperatures. right, while the

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-16 Thread Douglas Theobald
elegantly). Cheers, Tim On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:55:54PM +0100, Ian Tickle wrote: On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: Vectors are not only three-dimensional, nor only Euclidean -- vectors can be defined for any number of arbitrary dimensions

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-15 Thread Douglas Theobald
As usual, the Omniscient Wikipedia does a pretty good job of giving the standard mathematical definition of a vector: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_space#Definition If the thing fulfills the axioms, it's a vector. Complex numbers do, as well as scalars. On Oct 15, 2010, at 8:56 AM,

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-15 Thread Douglas Theobald
-0400, Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu wrote: As usual, the Omniscient Wikipedia does a pretty good job of giving the standard mathematical definition of a vector: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_space#Definition If the thing fulfills the axioms, it's a vector. Complex numbers do

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-15 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Oct 15, 2010, at 12:14 PM, William G. Scott wrote: As usual, the Omniscient Wikipedia does a pretty good job of giving the standard mathematical definition of a vector: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_space#Definition If the thing fulfills the axioms, it's a vector. Complex

Re: [ccp4bb] off topic: multiple structural sequence alignment

2010-01-12 Thread Douglas Theobald
Both MUSTANG and MATT are good choices: http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~arun/mustang/ http://groups.csail.mit.edu/cb/matt/ On Jan 12, 2010, at 7:17 AM, Ronnie Berntsson wrote: Dear all, A bit off the topic question perhaps. I am trying to find a program which can do multiple structural sequence

Re: [ccp4bb] FW: pdb-l: Retraction of 12 Structures

2009-12-16 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:40 AM, Anastassis Perrakis wrote: How very correct. And if anyone is doubt, remember the fiasco of the 'memory of water', published in Nature. To borrow the title of DVD's talks, Just because its in Nature, it does not mean its true. Or, as one of my colleagues is

Re: [ccp4bb] units of the B factor

2009-11-23 Thread Douglas Theobald
Argument from authority, from the omniscient Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian Although the radian is a unit of measure, it is a dimensionless quantity. The radian is a unit of plane angle, equal to 180/pi (or 360/(2 pi)) degrees, or about 57.2958 degrees, It is the standard

Re: [ccp4bb] units of the B factor

2009-11-23 Thread Douglas Theobald
anything else) is perfectly valid for an angle. Marc Quoting Douglas Theobald dtheob...@brandeis.edu: Argument from authority, from the omniscient Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian Although the radian is a unit of measure, it is a dimensionless quantity

Re: [ccp4bb] Rmerge - was moelcular replacement with large cell

2009-07-15 Thread Douglas Theobald
James, Graeme is right. While I does indeed (approximately) follow a Gaussian, |I-I| cannot. The absolute value operator keeps it positive (reflects the negative across the origin), and hence it is a half Gaussian. Its mean cannot be zero unless the variance is zero. For standard

Re: [ccp4bb] 3D modeling program

2008-12-07 Thread Douglas Theobald
- Dima Klenchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But how do we establish phylogeny? - Based on simple similarity! (Structural/morphological in early days and largely on sequence identity today). It's clearly a circular logic: Hardly. Two sequences can be similar and non-homologous at all

Re: [ccp4bb] 3D modeling program

2008-12-06 Thread Douglas Theobald
- Dima Klenchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But how do we establish phylogeny? - Based on simple similarity! This is a common, but erroneous, misconception. Modern phylogenetic methods (Bayesian, maximum likelihood, and some distance-based) rely on explicit models of molecular evolution, and

Re: [ccp4bb] 3D modeling program

2008-12-06 Thread Douglas Theobald
- Anastassis Perrakis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we are getting a bit too philosophical on a matter which is mainly terminology . 1. To quantify how similar two proteins are, one should best refer to 'percent identity'. Thats clear, correct and unambiguous. 2. One can also

Re: [ccp4bb] 3D modeling program

2008-12-06 Thread Douglas Theobald
- Dima Klenchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having a generic dictionary definition is nice and dandy. However, in the present context, the term 'homology' has a much more specific meaning: it pertains to the having (or not) of a common ancestor. Thus, it is a binary concept. (*) But how