Hi, all, just got one of these in a group of stuff, and I have no LA30, and
thus no need for it. Anyone out there have an LA30? :-)
Noel
> From: Al Kossow
> just sold for $1600
Well, it is from a limited edition of 20, it does not appear to be in print
other than that, and this page:
http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/in-his-own-words-gary-kildall/
makes it sound like the family are unlikely to release it...
> From: Jerry Weiss
> If there is an option to start at track 1 or skip the first 30 (?)
> blocks, that might work.
It's worse than that; there is 'logical' and 'physical' block order, and the
two are quite different (blocks are scattered arount the disk in order to do
rotational opt
> From: Mattis Lind
> I have some big format DEC drawings that is much bigger than the
> standard 11x17 drawings that most others are.
> ...
> Since I cannot do this myself I need to go to a professional scanning
> service and pay for it.
The other option (which is what I
> From: Pete Lancashire
> if the seller wont ship, will s/he take them to a pack and ship outfit ?
It's even easier than that. I have used PakMail:
https://www.pakmail.com/
a fair amount, and have been very pleased with their service and pricing;
they generally offer a pick-up servic
> From: Philipp Hachtmann
> The DEC stuff was designed quite wrong-insertion resistant.
> ...
> I did it. Once. It leads to impressive fireworks on many boards.
I managed to plug in an M9301 backwards, once. Luckily, most of the other
boards came through OK (I think I lost one chi
> From: Ian S. King
> Those keys are common across nearly all DEC machines prior to the ones
> that started using plastic keys. XX2247 is the code.
Someone on eBait is selling replicas for not wholly unreasonable amounts of
money:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/142118132040
Noel
> From: David Bridgham dab at froghouse.org
> I'm going to have enough fun with trying to implement the USB stack in
> the FPGA
ISTR discussing putting a PDP-11 into the FPGA (there are Verilog PDP-11's
available), so we could write our USB code in C (I'd use the Unix V6 compiler
to
> From: Emanuel Stiebler
>> on the grounds that the analog part at that speed would be too tricky
>> for us.
> No, it isn't.
You _are_ talking to two people who are so clueless about analog that we
didn't bother putting ground lines between each pair of signal lines in a
cable...
> From: Al Kossow
> The issue would be things like the swap partition on a unix disk or
> whatever the equivalent is under RSX
Which is why, as I mentioned, that we're including the ability to have
virtual disks which store their data in RAM, not on permanent storage - their
contents
> From: Emanuel Stiebler
> If I would do it again, it would be USB only with some sd-card slots.
Exactly our plan (although the USB is left until after we get the SD running).
> USB with 480MHz is fast enough
I think our plan was to skip that speed, and go with the next one down, on
> From: Al Kossow
> but it looks like they are going EOL
Is that just this particular product (individual SD/etc products seem to go
out all the time, as new and bigger ones come out), or industrial SD cards in
general? I hope not that latter, that would blow a large hole in out strategy!
> From: Paul Koning
>> do industrial SD cards exist?
> If you have a ready-made SD interface, these cards work nicely. If you
> need to build one from scratch it gets tricky, because the interface is
> fairly high speed serial (packet based) signaling, and the
> initializa
> From: Christian Corti
> I don't like the idea of CF or SD at all. I'd pretty much prefer PATA
> or SATA, because ... Real drives are also much more reliable than flash
> drives,
I found this interesting/troubling, because Dave Bridgham and I decided to
use SD cards, after I init
> From: Guy Sotomayor Jr
> Having several different Unibus board designs in various stages .. I can
> tell you that producing a *reliable* Unibus board is *not* going to be
> cheap.
Why not? Just the size, gold-plated fingers, and transceiver chips, or is
there more?
Noel
> From: Al Kossow
> For what it's worth, I've been seeing sellers cancel orders after the
> fact a LOT this year.
Any guesses as to what's going on?
Noel
Lot of 6; UK only, I think
http://www.ebay.com/itm/253056726492
Noel
So Antonio donated a whole bunch of VAX articles to the Computer History
wiki, with the result that many of the top items on the 'Wanted Pages' list:
http://gunkies.org/wiki/Special:WantedPages
are now DEC terminals, and PDP-8's. I know we have a few aficionados of those
around - anyone up for
> From: Pontus Pihlgren
> I gather it's for a KA10.
Yes, the MIT-DM machine.(MIT-AI had an MIT-built - I think - paging box that
was mostly program-compatible with the one on MIT-DM, but had an extra bit of
physical page number, so supported 4 'mobies' of physical memory instead of 2;
I d
>> From: Charles Anthony
>> Configuration+Panel+WHITE:
>> Hard to read the writing, but I think it is a SCU configuration panel.
> I'm still trying to get confirmation (THVV couldn't help), but I think
> you may well be right.
It _is_ an SCU; see:
http://www.bitsavers.org/
> From: Charles Anthony
> Configuration+Panel+WHITE:
> Hard to read the writing, but I think it is a SCU configuration panel.
Good catch! I'm still trying to get confirmation (THVV couldn't help),
but I think you may well be right.
The picture of the MIT 6180:
http://www.multician
> From: Chuck Guzis
> Nope, this wasn't a minicomputer.
You're the first person I've heard call a KA10 a 'minicomputer'! :-)
Noel
> From: Charles Anthony
> Gah. I saw a picture of one somewhere recently, but I can't remember
> where.
Are you thinking of this one:
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConKAPanel.jpg
Meter closeup here:
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConMeter.jpg
Noe
> From: Dave Wade
> three generations so transistor (600?), TTL (6000, L66, DPS100/200/300)
> and MOS (some of the DPS8) systems had different panels.
I've never seen mention of a Multics DPS100/200/300 machine, so maybe they
skipped Multics support in that generation?
> From:
> From: Pontus Pihlgren pontus at Update.UU.SE
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 06:06:05PM +0200, Mattis Lind wrote:
> I am a bit curious about what the rest of the low cabinet was used >
> for.
I have an -11/44 which has a BA11-K mounted below the CPU.
Noel
> From: Jim Stephens
> I have a collection of photographs of some here, including my panel.
Yes, I've had a look through all them, thanks for saving them!
To say a bit more about what each one is (as best I can work out), let me
start with the one labelled "The whole group" (which will
> From: Dave Wade
>> All CPU's were upgradable on site to any other model. There wasn't
>> really any difference between the models
Yes and no, is my impression. I got the impression from my recent reading
that the addition of the Appending Unit used to create the Multics segmented
me
> From: Ed Sharpe
> from what I was told, many versions of machines by Big H were used to
> run multics over the span of time.
Yes, it appears from what I can find that there were basically three
different Honeywell machines that ran Multics:
- the 6180 - the one the LCM has the pan
So, I've been collecting images of 'Multics' 'front' panels from around the
Internet, intending to do a gallery.
(I should explain that, in common with mainframes of that era, a Multics
system had a variety of different kinds of boxes - CPUs, memories, etc - but
also others, intended to support th
So for those who aren't up to writing text, if images are 'your thing', we
could definitely use you! E.g I have added a large number of PDP-11-related
pages, but I'm mostly too lazy to do images, and there are dozens of pages
which need them.
Again, if you'd like an account, let me know, and I can
> is that crucifix-shaped area of low reflection the thing you're speaking
> of? It's only visible in reflected light, not direct light; I'm not sure
> what it is, perhaps crystals oriented in a different direction from the
> rest of the head?
Now that I look again, you can see it
> From: Fritz Mueller
> Perhaps it is time to find/train a younger apprentice :-)
'Yes, my master!' :-)
> If anybody has a decent picture of a clean/fresh RK05 head, I would
> appreciate seeing it
Here ya go:
http://gunkies.org/wiki/File:RK05Head.jpg
That head (NOS) came ou
So, back in December I put out a call for help on CH Wiki content:
> looking at the list of 'wanted pages' on the Computer History' wiki:
>http://gunkies.org/wiki/Special:WantedPages
> the top page or so of entries are all about various Vaxen.
> Is there a volunteer our there
> From: Fritz Mueller
> the heads are accumulating dust and oxide in places that are hard see
> and get to
Sorry, I don't follow this - where are you thinking of?
> I'm looking for some advice/calibration from the community here.
Hmm, we had to do this once BITD (we had a bad he
> From: Fritz Mueller
> I'm in need of cabling and a distribution panel for a DEC DZ11 serial
> mux
Here ya go:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321225351590
They'd probably take $30 each...
The DZ11 originally shipped with the H317-E 16-port EIA Distribution Panel
(which supported two se
> From: Liam Proven
> I confess to much trepidation at the hate for keyboard collectors, as I
> am one.
> ...
> We're not _all_ evil, you know.
Unfortunately, the percentage who _are_ willing to chop up original machines,
leaving them non-functional (as in this case), is suffi
> From: Mark Tapley
> Next stop, I'll pull the cover off the machine and see whether I can
> spot any spilled battery electrolyte from the old battery or anything
> else suspicious looking on the logic board in that area
It probably wouldn't hurt to clean that area with a Q-tip di
> From: Ed Groenenberg
> Re-purposed art or vandalism?
Given that the keyboard was at one point there (in the images), but has now
apparently been sold separate, clearly the latter...
Noel
> From: William Degnan
> what is the memory range
That's in the disassembly page:
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/ROMs/M9301-YB.mac
765000-765776 and 773000-773776
> can you post the ROM dump so I can compare on my end?
Well, the contents are in that page too, but her
> From: Fritz Mueller
> Even better news: I was subsequently able to dump the contents of my
> M9301-YB, and found they do indeed exactly match the contents ...
> posted in [the] M9301-YB disassembly.
Excellent news!
When I get as chance, I'l do more work on the disassembly (and
> From: Noel Chiappa
>> I may also have a go at writing a program I can toggle in to read the
>> contents of my failing M9301 and dump them out over the console serial
>> to enable a systematic comparison
> Let me find the one I wrote, and upload it.
Here you go:
http://an
> From: Fritz Mueller
> A question for Noel if he's listening here
You rang? :-)
> how did you obtain your YB listing
I plugged one in, and ran a small program that dumped the contents to the
serial port.
> would you consider it reliable?
Reasonably. If there was bit-rot in th
> From: Al Kossow
> You need moving air, though.
> I'm not sure how you do that well in a TK50 style cartridge.
Hmm, maybe not? I start with the need for moving air - which I do not
dispute, just wondering what the needed effect is. I don't think it can be
removing out-gassed material
> From: Josh Dersch
> There's a 20-pin header on the CPU upgrade board which connects to the
> front panel. ... the programmer's panel loses most of its functionality
> .. but the HALT/SS and BOOT switches are functional with the cable
> connected. ... With the 20-pin cable fro
> From: Jerry Weiss
> So it would appear the upgrade board makes provisions for both
> situations.
I'm not sure that the two situations that the upgrade board supports are in
fact different, from its point of view. (Assuming that the two situations you
refer to are the two different c
> From: Noel Chiappa
> (One cable carries uclock, the other uPC data.)
Minor goof there; the low bits of the uPC are in one cable, along with the
"Manual Clock Enable" and "Manual Clock" signals; the other cable carries the
high bit/bits (depending on whether it's a KD11-E or KD11-EA) of
> From: Josh Dersch
>> Now I'm confused. There is no cable from the front panel to the CPU in
>> a standard 11/34? (There's one from the front panel to the backplane;
>> another from the front panel to the M9301; and another from the
>> programmer's front panel [if present] to
> From: Josh Dersch
> I pulled the ... bootstrap boards from slot 3 ... The BOOT button
> causes the RUN light to momentarily flash, but that's about it.
That's not too surprising. The way booting works with the M9301 boot card (not
sure if you know this already; if you do, apologies
> From: Al Kossow
Hey, thanks for all the effort to help...
> which has the schematic
> they have been there for over three years
$@#&($^@(*$&^! That's what I get for trusting Google; I tried searching
for '"DB11-A" prints' and '"DB11-A" drawings' and got nothing ... except for
a
So, Paul A lent me a set of these (thanks Paul!) so I could scan them in (they
are not currently available online).
Howwever, there's a problem. The last page in the set contains the circuit
diagram for the M7248 BBSY Repeater card (the heart of the whole device, since
the DB11-A uses BBSY to deci
> From: Eric Christopherson
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017, william degnan via cctech wrote:
>> [Command + ~] is a system reset.
> Just out of curiosity: do you mean the shift key gets held down too?
> If not, it would write it as Command + `.
I found the syntax slightly confusing.
> From: Brent Hilpert
> I don't expect anyone was making boards like this expecting to get the
> target timing from fixed/off-the-shelf component values
Right, that comment was more directed to the discussion here about baud rate
variation.
> There are two trimpots on the board,
> From: Brent Hilpert
>> The trimpot on the board says to me that the clock is most likely a
>> simple RC affair.
> There's a 7493 (4-bit counter) on the board as well, which looks to
> have connections to the dip switches beside it, in all likelihood the
> baud rate divid
> From: Toby Thain
> And a lot is as-new or perfectly okay.
Ditto that.
Both my ADF A4 page scanner and my A3 scanner (a professional grade Epson)
came off eBay (the latter for a minimal amount of money - that pro scanner is
a multi-$K unit, for which I think I paid the princely sum of $
> From: Steven Malikoff
> I acquired an RC11 flip chip set
Do you mean literally this (just the cards), or did you mean a complete RC11
(including the backplane)? The Flip Chips do turn up (the ones I put up a
post about a few days back are RC11 chips), but the backplanes are rara aves
in
> From: Jay Jaeger
> Fortunately, I do have some, and will scan them in
Yesss! Thank you!
> I will do the usual 400DPI / tiffs
I've found that for engineering drawings, 600 dpi is better; the prints often
contain very small writing (pin numbers, etc) which are sometimes hard to rea
> From: Adrian Graham
> Completely by chance one of the programme managers for STC at the time
> found all my postings ... in a last ditch attempt to give his stash of
> goodies away before he put them all in the local recycling.
> This means that not only do I now have two unu
> From: Marc Howard
> I need (1) of the 8/32 x 1 3/8 captive screws that are at either end of
> a unibus backplane to mount it to the chassis.
You don't _have_ to use the special captive screws - quite a few of the
backplanes I've got were mounted with ordinary screws.
Noel
So I have some G-series Flip Chips that I don't have a use for, and I hope
someone out there does. If so, I'd like to trade them for something I _do_
have a use for - e.g. M-series FCs.
Alas, according to the "Spare Module Handbook", these seem to be pretty
exotic, but maybe I'll luck out. They ar
> From: Marc Howard
> Although I can find the RK11D users manual on the web there doesn't
> appear to be print set (schematics) out there. Does this exist
> somewhere under a non-obvious name?
??? I just did a quick Google for 'RK11-D" (note quotes), and it turned up:
http://ma
> From: Paul Koning
> For some definition of "standard". ... other machines of that time or
earlier
> numbered bits according to the power of 2 they represent, i.e., the
"current
> standard".
Well, the vast majority of computers 'back then' numbered bits (and byes)
from left to
> From: Warner Losh
> Will it fit in a pickup truck?
Should fit into most 4-wheeled transport devices (except a new Ford GT, those
supposedly only have 2 cubic feet or so of storage :-).
Noel
Another eBait wonder:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182597510806
The listing says "Local pick-up only", and it's in Denver, Colorado. Someone
should really save this (although the chances of finding all the boards to go
with it is pretty slim).
Noel
> From: Anders Nelson
> Heavens, why are the bit positions in descending order right to left in
> that PCM-12?
Numbering bits in descending order from right to left (AKA increasing order
from left to right) used to be the standard - IBM S/360, PDP-10, etc, etc
all did it that way.
> From: Jim Stephens
> The fellow responded and as I had suspected had never seen anything
> this old before and had thought that the parts were separable.
> ...
> Also he is going to hopefully share photos of the entire pile and I'll
> try to help him market the parts in t
> From: Jim Stephens
> I just ran across a sale on epay by a guy who thought you could pull
> the processor chip off the board and sell each in separate auctions.
There are a lot of idiotz out there.
I ran into one who'd removed a group of boards from (probably) an -11/40, and
then s
> From: Christian Corti
> I have a similar setup with our 11/34. .. It's not the fastest system,
> and the kernel uses overlays like crazy ;-) ... I still have to add the
> cache and FPP boards and see how that improves the performance.
The cache should help some, but the FPP, pro
> From: Chuck Guzis
> Well, okay--but then let's be period-correct. The PDP-11 dates from
> 1970, when, AFAIK, BBSes, if they existed, were far from what people
> think they were.
You're thinking of the -11/20, released in 1970. But that was only the first
PDP-11 model; the -11/23
> From: Systems Glitch
> You need split I&D for 2.11BSD
ISTR reading that the network code runs in Supervisor mode, so you need that
to, technically (although all -11s CPUs with Supervisor also have I+D, and
vice versa).
Does the 2.9 include networking code? If so, it must use overlays l
> From: Guy Sotomayor Jr
>>> We need to move our business and I have about a ton of
>>> classic cimputer junk in the SFBA that need to go or get scrapped:
>>> Symbolics 3645? (from Guy Sotomayer a few years back)
>>> PDP 11
> I stopped by and picked up some stuff from Pet
> From: Jim Stephens
> I'm interested in whether this is a wound down or ongoing Dec material
> operation, or the operation of an e waste recycler.
> Vendor name on ebay is EFI. May have other aliases.
Oh, Efi! All hardened DEC collectors know about Efi (well, many of us do :-).
T
> From: Tony Duell
> Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this
Actually, not me! I'm an old enough campaigner that I recall when real light
bulbs were standard, and they were a total PITA! So when LED's arrived, we
all though they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. So I'm now
> From: Bill Gunshannon
> Surely there were Mailing Lists prior to the existence of the Internet,
> yes?
Absolutely. They started on the ARPANet, fairly early on.
E.g. SF-Lovers (one of the first 'non-mission related' mailing lists) started
in September, 1979, and MsgGroup (an 'offic
Hi, all, continuing the process of getting rid of duplicate DEC documentation:
I have an extra copy of the the UNIBUS Interface Manual, Second Edition
(DEC-11-HIAB-D); I'm interested in trading it for any interesting PDP-11
documentation or stuff you'd like to part with which I don't have.
One DEC
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 1:26 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?
I don't have access to my _old_ email (i.e. from the 80's) to confirm this,
and I don't think they still have copies of the very oldest mail, but the
IETF list has got
Just a heads-up that the 1979 edition of the "pdp11 bus handbook" has a very
serious editing error in it, in the description of UNIBUS arbitration.
On page 38, immediately after step 13 of the NPR Arbitration Sequence
("13. SACK must be negated before BBSY may be negated."), it says "A bus
ma
I have an extra copy of:
DEC-11-SERA-DDisk Operating System Monitor Programmer's Handbook,
February 1971
if anyone has a use for it.
Noel
> From: Al Kossow
> Harry did an oral history at CHM
There are also a pair at the Smithsonian:
http://amhistory.si.edu/archives/AC0196_husk730419.pdf
http://amhistory.si.edu/archives/AC0196_husk720309.pdf
and the CBI did one too, but alas it does not seem to be on-line (it's not in
> From: Rod Smallwood
> All computer computer languages are only as good or bad as the person
> using them.
True words. I'd rather work on a program written in assembly language,
done by a _really good_ programmer, than a program written in _anything_,
done by a bad one. (My classic e
> From: Alfred M. Szmidt
> No even the following program:
> int main (void) { return 0; }
> is guaranteed to work
I'm missing something: why not?
Noel
PS: There probably is something to the sports car analogy, but I'm not going
to take a position on that one! :-) Inter
> From: John Wilson
> It would have been nice if it had stolen FORTRAN-77's idea of declaring
> a variable in the size that you want (I'm talking about INTEGER*2 vs.
> INTEGER*4 etc.), instead of just "knowing" what the difference is
> between int and long
Back in the late 70'
> From: Sean Conner
> I really think it's for *this* reason (the handler() example) that C
> doesn't allow nested functions.
I wouldn't be sure of that; I would tend to think that nested functions were
left out simply because they add complexity, and didn't add enough value to
outweig
> From: Mattis Lind
> One of them does not seems to be at bitsavers.
That's on my list of items to get.
I have a page-feed scanner, so will easily be able to scan this (although
I'll have to get some instruction on exactly what incantation to use to
Acrobat to turn the TIFF's into a PDF;
> From: Steven Malikoff
> I've scanned the full version of this manual that comprises the
> installation guide, description, system specifications, theory of
> operation, timing chart, full schematic and manifest.
Oh, wow! You get the Documentation Preservation Gold Star! A neede
> From: Glen Slick
> the Q22/Q22 backplane is not good for an 11/83 CPU ... M8190 boards and
> both have PMI signals on the CD half of the CPU board.
So I seem to recall hearing tales of PMI cards emitting smoke when plugged
into a Q/Q/ backplane. That doesn't seem to have happened he
> From: Brent Hilpert
> I don't have a full enough picture of the circuit and circumstances to
> provide a definitive suggestion but, some principles:
> ...
> It's not clear C-coupling is what's going on here (the wave shape looks
> pretty sharp for what I understand of the
> From: Allison
> FYI this is the same problem designers hit with DRAMS back 40 years ago.
This didn't ring (pun not intended) a bell for me; can you say a bit more?
> From: Chuck Guzis
> I'll offer a suggestion that if your SD card *must* be a significant
> distance from it
> From: Eugene (W2HX)
> I am still not convinced it is coupling at all. ... I just don't think
> you can get square waves from square waves. ...
> it is even harder to believe one could successfully couple a square
> wave onto such a transmission line unless the signal is actu
I should mention that this is a pre-prototype; the final thing won't have a
cable at all; so this isn't a fundamental issue with the design (if it is
cross-talk). And the SD card isn't even plugged in when we see this - if it is
cross-talk, it has to be some other signal carried in the cable.
We'r
> From: Dwight Kelvey
> Is there any load resistance at the end of the line?
Yes, 270K to ground (i.e. pretty large). How does that have an effect on
whether cross-talk can create a square wave? Sorry, I'm not understanding.
Noel
Hi, a question about generic analog stuff.
In the process of getting SD cards to work, Dave is seeing square-wave noise
on a line. (1V of square wave, with pulses about 400ns long, running at
375kHz.) The line runs through a flat cable of modest length, along with
other signal-carrying lines. (No,
> From: Philipp Hachtmann
> The 11/20 is the simplest 11 as far as I know.
'Simplest' in what sense? They certainly aren't the easiest ones to
understand, with all that random control logic! The -11/04 is far easier
to understand (for me, at least; YMMV).
> From: Ethan Dicks
>
> From: Bill Gunshannon
> I doubt Motorolla was in the business of custom making different size
> chips, even for DEC.
So, that triggered a question in my mind: why was DEC using the 68K on this
board, anyway? They had plenty of in-house chips the could have used, e.g.
the J11. The MC
> From: Bill Gunshannon
> Considering that I have never seen any sockets that were 2mm different
> in width ... I really can't imagine any CPU not fitting.
I think you're right. I took another look at the drawing, and I'd been looking
at the package width dimension: there's also a sep
> From: John Wilson
> I think this is DELUA?
Yes, that's right - sorry!
> I'm getting old ... could have it wrong.
No, _I_'m the one who's getting old! (But in this case, that's not it - I
always get the names of those two mixed up!)
> I'd be inclined to just try it.
I hadn't
So all the DEUNA's I've seen have L10 (ceramic package, 10Mhz) 68K's in them.
Has anyone tried using anything else, and did it work?
I _assume_ an x12 would work, but until someone has acutally tried it...
The Pxx's (plastic packaging) might not work - according to the datasheet,
they are 2mm wid
> From: Pontus Pihlgren
> The 11/70 backplane is wirewrapped.
Oh, right you are! I don't know where my brain has fled to these days!
It's actually an MJ11 (-11/70 core memory) backplane (I checked the part
number - plus someone pointed out that you can see "MJ11" written somewhere).
This:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252820125010
looks like it might be an -11/70 backplane, but I'm too lazy to look up the
part number.
Noel
> From: Raymond Wiker
> Steve Jobs ... was also a stickler for perfection and largely unwilling
> to make compromises.
Absolutely; and that's a large part of the reason for the success of Apple.
His products were just really well done.
It's also, I think, a big part of the causality
> From: Dwight Kelvey
> I need on of those.
I think it belongs in a museum, actually. Provided they can make it work, of
course! :-) I wonder how many working delay line main memories are left in
the world?
Noel
PS: Sorry about the previous mostly-duplicate message; I hit the 'i
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