Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
Hi, On 4 Nov., 04:58, ka sancha...@gmail.com wrote: (defprotocol OnlyHalfCooless x y z) Instead of (defn is-this-cool? [o] (satisfies? Coolness o)) I need to now write: (defn is-this-cool? [o] (or (instance? Cool1 o) (instance? Cool2 o)) or, (even worse) (defn is-this-cool? [o] (and (satisfies? OnlyHalfCoolness o) (instance? Comparable o) (instance? Serializable o)) May I ask a heretic question: Why don't you specify the contract in the docstring of the protocol? (defprotocol Coolness Yadddayaddablablablubber. Cool things have to be Comparable and Serializable. (x ..) (y ...)) If someone doesn't adhere to this contract, it's his program which is broken, not yours. Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
A bug? Unbound Unbound in 1.3-alpha2 when a symbol is not set
Hi, Is it intended in 1.3-alpha2? I think the error message in 1.2 is way better (although not as user friendly as I wish to). Shall I report it? Where? How? devmac:~ jacek$ clj -13 CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib-1.3.0-alpha2.jar Clojure 1.3.0-alpha2 user= (def c) #'user/c user= c #Unbound Unbound: #'user/c devmac:~ jacek$ clj CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-1.2.0 CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib/target/clojure-contrib-1.2.0.jar Clojure 1.2.0 user= (def c) #'user/c user= c java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var user/c is unbound. (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) Jacek -- Jacek Laskowski Notatnik Projektanta Java EE - http://jaceklaskowski.pl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Supporting 1.2 and 1.3
Hello, I've put some small libraries on github. At the moment they specifically depend on Clojure 1.2 and contrib (since its the released version). However, I have had requests to take out the dependencies on clojure and contrib so that they don't infect projects that use them. Is this standard practice? Would it catch people out? I thought about alternative approaches but have no solution. For instance, in Leiningen, it is possible to specify a minimal version e.g [org.clojure/clojure-contrib [1.2,)] This would normally be fine but in 1.3 the dependency on contrib changes: [org.clojure.contrib/standalone 1.3.0-alpha2] Has anyone hit this problem? What is the best way of dealing with it? Thanks in advance for any help. Saul -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
I see your point.
Somehow, it is annoying to have to manipulate a set of protocols that
always go together.
And it would be nice to have a shorthand.
I have a very small prototype here:
git://nicolasoury.repositoryhosting.com/nicolasoury/type-classes.git
of some code to allow type-classes like deductions of protocols (ie
logical programming with protocols).
It is not really working, tested, maintained or nice currently.
(It was just a quick proof of concept)
The idea is to write a rule:
Serializable, Comparable, HalfCool = Cool {implemenation of
functions that are not in the pre-condition}
Typically if you roll you own Eq protocol with eq,
Comparable = Eq {:eq (fn [x y] (compare x y)}
Then, for each protocol accessible on a right handside of a rule, it
extends Object with that protocol.
This default implementation try to apply all rules, in order to deduce
an implementation.
If it deduces an implementation, it extends the protocol with that
implementation, for the type of the argument.
(That way there is a derivation of implementation only on the first call)
The implementation is very bad (and not maintained) and I wouldn't
advise using it, but the idea can be useful sometimes.
Especially, it shows that the access you have to protocols at the
programmatic level, might help to solve the kind of problems you have.
(this kind of deduction are a bit of an overkill for the problem at hand)
I don't know if there is a similar programmatic access to deftype. I
would like to know of it if there is.
Best,
Nicolas.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
For complex cases, you may like to fall back on multi-methods and
abstraction types. I blogged about typed abstractions few days ago
here:
http://bitumenframework.blogspot.com/2010/10/typed-abstractions-in-clojure.html
Regards,
Shantanu
On Nov 4, 1:25 pm, nicolas.o...@gmail.com nicolas.o...@gmail.com
wrote:
I see your point.
Somehow, it is annoying to have to manipulate a set of protocols that
always go together.
And it would be nice to have a shorthand.
I have a very small prototype here:
git://nicolasoury.repositoryhosting.com/nicolasoury/type-classes.git
of some code to allow type-classes like deductions of protocols (ie
logical programming with protocols).
It is not really working, tested, maintained or nice currently.
(It was just a quick proof of concept)
The idea is to write a rule:
Serializable, Comparable, HalfCool = Cool {implemenation of
functions that are not in the pre-condition}
Typically if you roll you own Eq protocol with eq,
Comparable = Eq {:eq (fn [x y] (compare x y)}
Then, for each protocol accessible on a right handside of a rule, it
extends Object with that protocol.
This default implementation try to apply all rules, in order to deduce
an implementation.
If it deduces an implementation, it extends the protocol with that
implementation, for the type of the argument.
(That way there is a derivation of implementation only on the first call)
The implementation is very bad (and not maintained) and I wouldn't
advise using it, but the idea can be useful sometimes.
Especially, it shows that the access you have to protocols at the
programmatic level, might help to solve the kind of problems you have.
(this kind of deduction are a bit of an overkill for the problem at hand)
I don't know if there is a similar programmatic access to deftype. I
would like to know of it if there is.
Best,
Nicolas.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clojure-backtracking-monads .. can it emulate prolog?
Thanks David. I am reading it .. it has nice description of mini-kanren. I was wondering if there is predicate corresponding to prologs nonvar in mini-kanren. Sunil. On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:13 PM, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:38 PM, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Sunil S Nandihalli sunil.nandiha...@gmail.com wrote: thanks Jim for your email. I will try to get my hands on Reasoned Schemer.. :) Sunil. William Byrd's dissertation, http://gradworks.umi.com/33/80/3380156.htmlis a great source for context, additional info, prior research, papers, etc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Supporting 1.2 and 1.3
Ring has a 1.3 branch to deal with the new version, for example. Maybe that's one solution. Regards, Shantanu On Nov 4, 12:44 pm, Saul Hazledine shaz...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I've put some small libraries on github. At the moment they specifically depend on Clojure 1.2 and contrib (since its the released version). However, I have had requests to take out the dependencies on clojure and contrib so that they don't infect projects that use them. Is this standard practice? Would it catch people out? I thought about alternative approaches but have no solution. For instance, in Leiningen, it is possible to specify a minimal version e.g [org.clojure/clojure-contrib [1.2,)] This would normally be fine but in 1.3 the dependency on contrib changes: [org.clojure.contrib/standalone 1.3.0-alpha2] Has anyone hit this problem? What is the best way of dealing with it? Thanks in advance for any help. Saul -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Bug with instance? inside deftypes
To me its an implementation wart which is dictated by the use of the reflection API in the compiler. There is some work done by Stu to create a clojure reflection API with several backends (eg ASM or Java Reflection). However I won't bet on the *current* compiler being fixed. my 2 cents Christophe On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:09 AM, ka sancha...@gmail.com wrote: I would guess the problem is referring to T inside the deftype. This also works: (deftype T [] Object (equals [this o] (if (= T (class o)) true false))) But as Meikel said hope that this is not the end of the story. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- Professional: http://cgrand.net/ (fr) On Clojure: http://clj-me.cgrand.net/ (en) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: A bug? Unbound Unbound in 1.3-alpha2 when a symbol is not set
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:41 AM, Jacek Laskowski ja...@laskowski.net.pl wrote: Hi, Is it intended in 1.3-alpha2? I think the error message in 1.2 is way better (although not as user friendly as I wish to). Shall I report it? Where? How? devmac:~ jacek$ clj -13 CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib-1.3.0-alpha2.jar Clojure 1.3.0-alpha2 user= (def c) #'user/c user= c #Unbound Unbound: #'user/c devmac:~ jacek$ clj CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-1.2.0 CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib/target/clojure-contrib-1.2.0.jar Clojure 1.2.0 user= (def c) #'user/c user= c java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var user/c is unbound. (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) Looks like an attempt to make commonplace compile error messages less verbose, to me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clojure-backtracking-monads .. can it emulate prolog?
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Sunil S Nandihalli sunil.nandiha...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks David. I am reading it .. it has nice description of mini-kanren. I was wondering if there is predicate corresponding to prologs nonvar in mini-kanren. Sunil. Again, I don't know enough about Prolog, but isn't this considered one of Prolog's non-logical operators? I think miniKaren attempts to avoid them. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
Meikel, Strong type systems make programming in the large easier. It would be nice if I didn't have to walk on eggshells when using a library. Written agreements are also known as gotchas. -- Paul Hobbs On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, On 4 Nov., 04:58, ka sancha...@gmail.com wrote: (defprotocol OnlyHalfCooless x y z) Instead of (defn is-this-cool? [o] (satisfies? Coolness o)) I need to now write: (defn is-this-cool? [o] (or (instance? Cool1 o) (instance? Cool2 o)) or, (even worse) (defn is-this-cool? [o] (and (satisfies? OnlyHalfCoolness o) (instance? Comparable o) (instance? Serializable o)) May I ask a heretic question: Why don't you specify the contract in the docstring of the protocol? (defprotocol Coolness Yadddayaddablablablubber. Cool things have to be Comparable and Serializable. (x ..) (y ...)) If someone doesn't adhere to this contract, it's his program which is broken, not yours. Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
Well, I'm not totally sure about what I'll write below, but I'll still try to make a decent job of sharing my current thoughts: * first, when I see calls to (instance?) (satisifies?), it rings a bell in my head. design problem. * second, it seems like you're trying to fix in the concrete something which may not have to. Having coolness be a static property of implementing this and that protocol seems very fixed. Beware the fixed hierarchies in java when you then have hard times getting orthogonal code (given that java has no implementation multiple inheritence, for example). But maybe it's just the example (or even me not totally understanding the example). * third: looks like a protocol abuse. I have the impression that the current trend is to see protocols as fine-grained extension points of generic algorithms. Which implies that the public API is not protocol functions, but those regular functions to which you pass objects which happen to be extended to some protocols (with you the consumer being aware of it or not). So a library implementer has designed some interesting generic functions. He organizes the way these generic functions deal with different types of input by creating protocols and calling protocol functions on the inputs, and extends those protocols to the most relevant kinds of input types (for him). He then decides to make the protocols part of his public API to let you, the user, have the ability to benefit from the generic functions for your own specific kinds of types. In this scheme, the goal is less extending the protocol for the sake of it than extending the protocol to be able to leverage existing functions *using* the protocols to one's particular kind of types/records. If the design of your application requires the use of protocols at all, which should generally not be an implicit assumption, IMHO. 2010/11/4 ka sancha...@gmail.com: AFAIK, it is not possible. You must implement all the different protocols. It might look desapointing, but on the other hand it is not necessary. (As there is no static typing in Clojure) What is your use-case? Current use case is that I want an abstraction which comprises of a set of operations I want + Comparable + Serializable Just define types that extend all the protocols. You can't. But you can define a type that extends both P and Comparable. Currently I'm struggling with the following problem - Suppose I consider something satisfying 'Coolness' property if it does x, y, z + is comparable + serializes. To do this I create a protocol 'OnlyHalfCoolness': (defprotocol OnlyHalfCooless x y z) and two deftypes Cool1, Cool2: (deftype Cool1 ... OnlyHalfCoolness .. Comparable .. Serializable) (deftype Cool2 ... OnlyHalfCoolness .. Comparable .. Serializable) Now I need to write a function: is-this-cool? Instead of (defn is-this-cool? [o] (satisfies? Coolness o)) I need to now write: (defn is-this-cool? [o] (or (instance? Cool1 o) (instance? Cool2 o)) or, (even worse) (defn is-this-cool? [o] (and (satisfies? OnlyHalfCoolness o) (instance? Comparable o) (instance? Serializable o)) A type hierarchy is not required - but I think a way to compose (atleast union) abstractions would be nice. Are there some fundamental problems with - (defprotocol Coolness .. Comparable .. Serializable .. x y z) ? What do you mean by static functions? Normal functions which do not dispatch based on the type of their first argument. Forget about this - thinking more about it - they don't really make too much sense in protocols. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:50:35 -0700 Paul Hobbs paul_ho...@hmc.edu wrote: Strong type systems make programming in the large easier. Paul, Strong typing has so many definitions that your statement is nearly meaningless. See http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Strong_typing for a few. Now, if you have some prove that's not just anecdotal, I'd be interested in hearing. Likewise if someone has prove of the contrary. Thanks, mike -- Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
Hi, On 4 Nov., 08:50, Paul Hobbs paul_ho...@hmc.edu wrote: Strong type systems make programming in the large easier. It would be nice if I didn't have to walk on eggshells when using a library. Written agreements are also known as gotchas. I'm not sure what you mean with strong type systems. Clojure's type system is dynamic. That means if I call seq on a thing I better make sure that I have an actually seqable thing. Otherwise I get a RuntimeException during runtime of my program. How is that different to a protocol function implementation trying to compare two things? If at least one doesn't implement Comparable you'll get a runtime exception. I take it you expect static typing. That said, I sense a lot of object-oriented thinking in how protocols are seen in the moment. From my point of view, a honest definition of a type or record is: (defrecord Abc [a b c]) (extend-protocol Xyz Abc (x [this] ...) ...) The record has nothing to do with the protocol. The record is a collection of data with a special name representing a value of some special sort. A protocol comprises functions which act on data in a certain abstract way. How this works for different types of data is defined by extending the protocol to the type (and not vice versa; extend-type is a suboptimal way to carry this meaning). That you specify these implementation inline with the type definition is a way to improve performance. But I would even call it pre-mature optimisation in a philosophical way. At the moment I see protocols just as functions acting on data as any other normal function does also. But I'm not sure I understand the philosophy of protocols myself. Some the above may be totally off track. YMMV. Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: A bug? Unbound Unbound in 1.3-alpha2 when a symbol is not set
Rich at the Conj explained that he wanted to remove a bunch of verifications each time a value was referenced to gain some speed. The basis was of his reasoning was that an unbound value is an exception more than a common thing and all these verifications at run time were really slowing things significantly for all applications. I recalls that he mentioned he needed to create the unbound value to achieve these optimizations. Luc P. Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote .. On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:41 AM, Jacek Laskowski ja...@laskowski.net.pl wrote: Hi, Is it intended in 1.3-alpha2? I think the error message in 1.2 is way better (although not as user friendly as I wish to). Shall I report it? Where? How? devmac:~ jacek$ clj -13 CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib-1.3.0-alpha2.jar Clojure 1.3.0-alpha2 user= (def c) #'user/c user= c #Unbound Unbound: #'user/c devmac:~ jacek$ clj CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-1.2.0 CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib/target/clojure-contrib-1.2.0.jar Clojure 1.2.0 user= (def c) #'user/c user= c java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var user/c is unbound. (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) Looks like an attempt to make commonplace compile error messages less verbose, to me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Resources on optimizing Clojure code
It is wonderful that people are so willing to help with a specific problem, and I encourage you to continue doing so, but I don't think anyone has answered the real question. Is there material out there that describes some of the mechanisms, tools, ideas, etc. that will allow the average clojure user to optimize their code. Yes, Yes, a good implementation is key, but you need to know the best practices in order to develop that implementation. Not that I have done this myself (yet!) but there are some that argue that reimplementing certain time critical components as macros will greatly speed up the code. See the link below: http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.clj/2010/03/functional-fluid-dynamics-in-clojure.html Optimization is a topic that I would like to see more on. On Nov 2, 1:32 pm, Dan Kefford dan_keff...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello fellow clojurians... I've been using Clojure now fairly regularly for the past two months solving problems on Project Euler. I've been fairly successful solving them but there are times where the performance of my code either stinks (the answer may come back in 5-10 minutes) or not at all even though I have effectively solved the problem (the code is correct and will return the answer for n 1000 but for n 10^8... forget about it.) My question is: are there any materials out there on how to optimize performance of Clojure code? There doesn't seem to be a lot out there. Thanks in advance, dan kefford -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Is this bug in Google AppEngine, appengine-clj or Clojure itself?
FYI: 0.4.1-SNAPSHOT has this fix On Nov 3, 11:07 am, Miki miki.teb...@gmail.com wrote: Does anybody know if this fix made it to the released jar? On Oct 17, 12:18 am, Mike Hinchey hinche...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is caused by those 2 clojure bugs (which seem to be the same thing). You may be able to work around that problem by patching appengine-clj to hint the method call to be on the public interface: DatastoreService. (defn current-transaction Returns the current datastore transaction, or nil if not within a transaction. [] (.getCurrentTransaction ^com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreService (datastore) nil)) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Documentation lacking for ns macro
The ns macro seems to be poorly documented as yet. The Namespaces page at the main Clojure site does not go into detail about its syntax; doc ns comes closer, with: (ns foo.bar (:refer-clojure :exclude [ancestors printf]) (:require (clojure.contrib sql sql.tests)) (:use (my.lib this that)) (:import (java.util Date Timer Random) (java.sql Connection Statement))) given as an example. But what exactly, for instance, is the use clause really supposed to look like? Is that a list of libraries starting with my.lib, for example, or is it a single lib and a list of symbols? The accompanying text only suggests looking at the use function's documentation. But using doc use gives: clojure.core/use ([ args]) Like 'require, but also refers to each lib's namespace using clojure.core/refer. Use :use in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. 'use accepts additional options in libspecs: :exclude, :only, :rename. The arguments and semantics for :exclude, :only, and :rename are the same as those documented for clojure.core/refer. Yeah, that's a real help if you're trying to remember the syntax. args. How specific. :) I think this is one area that could definitely use improvement, including a couple of actual examples of usage on the Namespaces page and a better description of the arglist for the use function (and ditto require) as well as a better :use example in doc ns. The model here should be the example :import clause above, which is perfect -- it's clear that it should be followed by lists that start with a package and continue with classnames from that package. By contrast, it's not clear from all of this exactly how to use :use and :require. Studying (or copying and modifying) example code from elsewhere seems to be the way to do it and I think it's suboptimal when that's the ONLY way. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: A bug? Unbound Unbound in 1.3-alpha2 when a symbol is not set
Luc is right. As to explain the behavior, see below: 2010/11/4 Jacek Laskowski ja...@laskowski.net.pl: Hi, Is it intended in 1.3-alpha2? I think the error message in 1.2 is way better (although not as user friendly as I wish to). Shall I report it? Where? How? devmac:~ jacek$ clj -13 CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib-1.3.0-alpha2.jar Clojure 1.3.0-alpha2 user= (def c) #'user/c user= c #Unbound Unbound: #'user/c c has the value Unbound. The semantic has not changed, the way to carry the semantic has. Now if you try to really use c, for example use it in call position, then since Unbound implements IFn, you'll have the appropriate exception because it correctly overrides IFn's invoke(...) methods. devmac:~ jacek$ clj CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-1.2.0 CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib/target/clojure-contrib-1.2.0.jar Clojure 1.2.0 user= (def c) #'user/c user= c java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var user/c is unbound. (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) Jacek -- Jacek Laskowski Notatnik Projektanta Java EE - http://jaceklaskowski.pl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Python is way faster than Clojure on this task
Hi all, I have written a Python script to analyze Minecraft levels and render a graph. Then I did the same with Clojure. It takes Python 10 seconds to analyze a map, while it takes Clojure over a minute. After having tried different options without any significant improvement, I am lost as to why there is such a huge difference. I wouldn't mind an extra pair of eyes/brains to look at this. I blogged about it in more detail here: http://pepijndevos.nl/clojure-versus-python Clojure version: https://github.com/pepijndevos/Clomian/ Python version: https://github.com/l0b0/mian Clojure spends most of its time in the freqs function, here are a couple of variations: https://gist.github.com/663096 If you want to run the code yourself, you'll need a Minecraft level and JNBT, which is not on Maven. JNBT: http://jnbt.sourceforge.net/ The level used in the blogpost: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10094764/World2.zip Groeten, Pepijn de Vos -- Sent from my iPod Shuffle http://pepijndevos.nl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Python is way faster than Clojure on this task
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 22:28:12 +0100 Pepijn de Vos pepijnde...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I have written a Python script to analyze Minecraft levels and render a graph. Then I did the same with Clojure. It takes Python 10 seconds to analyze a map, while it takes Clojure over a minute. After having tried different options without any significant improvement, I am lost as to why there is such a huge difference. I wouldn't mind an extra pair of eyes/brains to look at this. I blogged about it in more detail here: http://pepijndevos.nl/clojure-versus-python Clojure version: https://github.com/pepijndevos/Clomian/ Python version: https://github.com/l0b0/mian Clojure spends most of its time in the freqs function, here are a couple of variations: https://gist.github.com/663096 If you want to run the code yourself, you'll need a Minecraft level and JNBT, which is not on Maven. JNBT: http://jnbt.sourceforge.net/ The level used in the blogpost: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10094764/World2.zip Can you check GC activity in the clojure version? I once ran into an issue where Python was running rings around an Eiffel version (compiled down to native code - no VM need apply). This looks similar to what you have, in that I built a large data structure, and then started groveling over it. Turned out that Eiffel was doing a mark-and-sweep GC, which was spending all of it's time marking and sweeping the large static data structure, whereas python doing a reference count GC didn't. Given that I know nothing about Java GCs, this is just a WAG. Come to think of it, how about trying to run the program Jython? That should have the same GC issues. If it's some similar environmental problem, that would show up there as well. mike -- Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Tryclojure - A Call To Action
http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure. http://try-clojure.org is a relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Python is way faster than Clojure on this task
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote: On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 22:28:12 +0100 Pepijn de Vos pepijnde...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I have written a Python script to analyze Minecraft levels and render a graph. Then I did the same with Clojure. It takes Python 10 seconds to analyze a map, while it takes Clojure over a minute. After having tried different options without any significant improvement, I am lost as to why there is such a huge difference. I wouldn't mind an extra pair of eyes/brains to look at this. I blogged about it in more detail here: http://pepijndevos.nl/clojure-versus-python Clojure version: https://github.com/pepijndevos/Clomian/ Python version: https://github.com/l0b0/mian Clojure spends most of its time in the freqs function, here are a couple of variations: https://gist.github.com/663096 If you want to run the code yourself, you'll need a Minecraft level and JNBT, which is not on Maven. JNBT: http://jnbt.sourceforge.net/ The level used in the blogpost: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10094764/World2.zip Can you check GC activity in the clojure version? I once ran into an issue where Python was running rings around an Eiffel version (compiled down to native code - no VM need apply). This looks similar to what you have, in that I built a large data structure, and then started groveling over it. Turned out that Eiffel was doing a mark-and-sweep GC, which was spending all of it's time marking and sweeping the large static data structure, whereas python doing a reference count GC didn't. Given that I know nothing about Java GCs, this is just a WAG. Come to think of it, how about trying to run the program Jython? That should have the same GC issues. If it's some similar environmental problem, that would show up there as well. There are many different collectors for the JVMs, too numerous to list here, all tunable. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/vmoptions-jsp-140102.html -- http://www.apgwoz.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Resources on optimizing Clojure code
On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:32 PM, cej38 wrote: It is wonderful that people are so willing to help with a specific problem, and I encourage you to continue doing so, but I don't think anyone has answered the real question. Is there material out there that describes some of the mechanisms, tools, ideas, etc. that will allow the average clojure user to optimize their code. Chapter 12 of Joy of Clojure is about performance (type hints, transience, chunked sequences, memoization, coercion). Arguably much of the book is also about what you describe broadly, since it is trying to teach and encourage efficient, idiomatic Clojure usage generally, AIUI. Gary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
using swig in clojure
Ive recently had troubles using swig in clojure getting a 'unsatisfied link exception' even though using the swig generated library worked in regular java code. I believe there was a post on this somewhere in these google groups. Anyways, I have figured out that if I place the following code in a clojure file (test.clj) (System/loadLibrary Seth) and go (compile 'test) on the REPL, i get No such file or directory [Thrown class java.io.IOException] Restarts: 0: [QUIT] Quit to the SLIME top level Backtrace: 0: java.io.UnixFileSystem.createFileExclusively(Native Method) 1: java.io.File.createNewFile(File.java:900) 2: clojure.lang.Compiler.writeClassFile(Compiler.java:5885) 3: clojure.lang.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:6043) 4: clojure.lang.RT.compile(RT.java:368) 5: clojure.lang.RT.load(RT.java:407) 6: clojure.lang.RT.load(RT.java:381) 7: clojure.core$load$fn__4511.invoke(core.clj:4905) 8: clojure.core$load.doInvoke(core.clj:4904) 9: clojure.lang.RestFn.invoke(RestFn.java:409) --more-- However, afterwards i can succesfully do (import Seth) (Seth/add 2 3) = 5 I cant do the loadlibrary thing on the repl, or it wont work (i get the 'unsatisfied link error' when calling (Seth/add)). Notice that if I do (compile 'test) again i get the same error above, which is weird because if i do (System/loadLibrary Seth) on the repl i get the 'expected' error Native Library /home/seth/.random/java/libSeth.so already loaded in another classloader [Thrown class java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError] Restarts: 0: [QUIT] Quit to the SLIME top level Backtrace: 0: java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary0(ClassLoader.java:1715) 1: java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:1675) 2: java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary0(Runtime.java:840) 3: java.lang.System.loadLibrary(System.java:1047) 4: user$eval1825.invoke(NO_SOURCE_FILE:1) 5: clojure.lang.Compiler.eval(Compiler.java:5424) 6: clojure.lang.Compiler.eval(Compiler.java:5391) 7: clojure.core$eval.invoke(core.clj:2382) --more-- Anyone know whats going on and how this can be fixed? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: A bug? Unbound Unbound in 1.3-alpha2 when a symbol is not set
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote: c has the value Unbound. The semantic has not changed, the way to carry the semantic has. Now if you try to really use c, for example use it in call position, then since Unbound implements IFn, you'll have the appropriate exception because it correctly overrides IFn's invoke(...) methods. It begs a question then, why would I do that? Where would that be of use? devmac:~ jacek$ clj -13 CLOJURE_DIR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR: /Users/jacek/apps/clojure-contrib-1.3.0-alpha2.jar Clojure 1.3.0-alpha2 user= (def c) #'user/c user= (c) IllegalStateException Attempting to call unbound fn: #'user/c clojure.lang.Var$Unbound.throwArity (Var.java:43) user= (type c) clojure.lang.Var$Unbound Jacek -- Jacek Laskowski Notatnik Projektanta Java EE - http://jaceklaskowski.pl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
really like the site. i like the tutorial section. it would be nice if the site would focus more on examples. On Nov 4, 5:49 pm, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure.http://try-clojure.orgis a relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
Right. One of the most important aspects of a site like this is it's tutorial. The tutorial should be interactive, much like tryhaskell's tutorial. That's one of the biggest things that needs to be done. Beyond that, tutorial authors would be great as well. If somebody feels like writing a tutorial section or improving the existing ones, have at it. It's a great way to examine your own Clojure knowledge and very helpfully contribute to the project at the same time. On Nov 4, 6:36 pm, box somethingital...@gmail.com wrote: really like the site. i like the tutorial section. it would be nice if the site would focus more on examples. On Nov 4, 5:49 pm, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure.http://try-clojure.orgisa relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Polymorphic protocols and containers....
It seems like the polymorphism of protocols breaks inside the methods. This is a problem for having a function that's polymorphic between an object and a container of the same objects. For instance: user= (defprotocol Tune (tweek [this])) Tune user= (deftype Knob [name] Tune (tweek [this] (println Tweeked name))) user.Knob user= (def base (Knob. base)) #'user/base user= (tweek base) Tweeked base nil user= (def treble (Knob. treble)) #'user/treble user= (tweek treble) Tweeked treble nil user= (deftype Box [ knobs] Tune (tweek [this] (for [knob knobs] (tweek knob user.Box user= (tweek (Box. base treble)) user= (tweek (Box. base treble)) java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: user.Knob (user= Where what I really want to happen is to tweek all the knobs in the box. Unfortunately, tweek inside the method seems to be wired to the method it's in, and no longer polymorphic. I've tried various ways to get to the variable I want, and some hinting, but nothing seems to change what I'm getting here. Maybe I shouldn't be trying to use protocols and types for this? Can someone let me know what I need to do to make this happen? Thanks, mike -- Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
Last time I introduced someone to Clojure via try-clojure.org, he came back later and said that the console ignored him after a while, and he wasn't sure what he did wrong. We tried it together, and after a couple minutes it stopped evaluating expressions. Does this bug sound familiar? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to reproduce it since. I'm guessing this is related to the bugfixes in jquery-console that you mentioned, so upgrading to the latest version of jquery-console is the piece that I would want to take on. For my own reference, these are the customizations you made to jquery-console that I will need to watch out for: https://github.com/Raynes/tryclojure/commits/master/resources/public/javascript/jquery.console.js On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure. http://try-clojure.org is a relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
That would be great. Any sort of problems with the console are very likely to be related to jquery-console, so updating it might fix them. I actually hadn't heard of that bug. Probably not a good sign, since it might mean that people spend very little time with tryclojure. ;) On Nov 4, 7:40 pm, Eric Lavigne lavigne.e...@gmail.com wrote: Last time I introduced someone to Clojure via try-clojure.org, he came back later and said that the console ignored him after a while, and he wasn't sure what he did wrong. We tried it together, and after a couple minutes it stopped evaluating expressions. Does this bug sound familiar? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to reproduce it since. I'm guessing this is related to the bugfixes in jquery-console that you mentioned, so upgrading to the latest version of jquery-console is the piece that I would want to take on. For my own reference, these are the customizations you made to jquery-console that I will need to watch out for: https://github.com/Raynes/tryclojure/commits/master/resources/public/... On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure.http://try-clojure.orgis a relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Polymorphic protocols and containers....
user= (defn tweek* [knob] (tweek knob)) #'user/tweek* user= (tweek* base) Tweeked base nil user= (deftype Box [ knobs] Tune (tweek [this] (for [knob knobs] (tweek* knob user.Box user= (tweek (Box. base treble)) #IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: user.Knob Not lexical scope, then -- it's not the deftype macro redefining it lexically or that wouldn't make tweek* stop working. user= (defn tweek* [knobs] (pmap #(tweek %) knobs)) #'user/tweek* user= (tweek (Box. base treble)) #CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: user.Knob (NO_SOURCE_FILE:28) Even more interesting. It's not being thread-locally rebound, either. It's being globally rebound. user= (deftype Box [ knobs] Tune (tweek [this] (println this) (tweek* knobs))) user.Box user= (tweek (Box. base treble)) #Box user@fe7f80 #CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: user.Knob (NO_SOURCE_FILE:30) Fascinating. It's not calling the Box tweek on the Box, then calling the Box tweek again on the knobs, else we'd have seen #Box user@fe7f80 #Knob user.k...@fa6824 #CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: user.Knob as it called tweek on the Box, printed the box, called tweek* which mapped over the knobs, tweek got called on the base knob, printed the base knob, and then tried to pmap over the base knob which isn't an ISeq. It's doing something else but I don't know what and I've got to go, sorry. Fringe is on. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: That would be great. Any sort of problems with the console are very likely to be related to jquery-console, so updating it might fix them. I actually hadn't heard of that bug. Probably not a good sign, since it might mean that people spend very little time with tryclojure. ;) Inability to paste into the repl at tryclojure is also a problem. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
I would love to help out. I'm new to closure, but I'm a web dev by day. What can I do? On Nov 4, 2010 5:49 PM, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure. http://try-clojure.org is a relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
Pete, Would you feel comfortable working on the jquery-console upgrade? That's entirely a Javascript issue, and I'd be happy to find another piece to work on. I actually prefer working in Clojure, and only took on the jquery-console upgrade task because it seemed important. Let me know if you're going to do the jquery-console upgrade, in which case I'll choose one of the other tasks. Eric On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 9:04 PM, pete mcquain pete.mcqu...@gmail.com wrote: I would love to help out. I'm new to closure, but I'm a web dev by day. What can I do? On Nov 4, 2010 5:49 PM, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure. http://try-clojure.org is a relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
I'm not sure, but I think I might have convinced Chris Done to allow pasting into the REPL. In any case, all tutorial examples are clickable (they are thrown into the REPL), which was my way of trying to work around those issues. Anybody is welcome to patch tryclojure's version of jquery-console (after the upgrade). However, if we start making changes like this, it might be a good idea to fork the jquery- console repository for our version. On Nov 4, 8:03 pm, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: That would be great. Any sort of problems with the console are very likely to be related to jquery-console, so updating it might fix them. I actually hadn't heard of that bug. Probably not a good sign, since it might mean that people spend very little time with tryclojure. ;) Inability to paste into the repl at tryclojure is also a problem. There is lots to do! If you're decent with web design, then check out the current design and see if you can make it better. I'm sure the HTML is a mess, and heaven knows the CSS is probably a disaster, so maybe you can help out with that. Making tryclojure look good is important as well. Beyond that, we have JavaScript stuff to do as well. Like Eric said, jquery-console needs to be upgraded, and we need an interactive tutorial a la tryhaskell.org, so that is some stuff you could look into as well. On Nov 4, 8:04 pm, pete mcquain pete.mcqu...@gmail.com wrote: I would love to help out. I'm new to closure, but I'm a web dev by day. What can I do? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
Sounds good to me. I'll start looking into it. On Nov 4, 2010 9:15 PM, Eric Lavigne lavigne.e...@gmail.com wrote: Pete, Would you feel comfortable working on the jquery-console upgrade? That's entirely a Javascript issue, and I'd be happy to find another piece to work on. I actually prefer working in Clojure, and only took on the jquery-console upgrade task because it seemed important. Let me know if you're going to do the jquery-console upgrade, in which case I'll choose one of the other tasks. Eric On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 9:04 PM, pete mcquain pete.mcqu...@gmail.com wrote: I would love to help out. I'm new to closure, but I'm a web dev by day. What can I do? On Nov 4, 2010 5:49 PM, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure. http://try-clojure.org is a relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
I'd like to remind you guys that if you plan to work on something, please create an issue for it on Github and let me know, so that I can assign your name to it with a tag and we can avoid duplicating work. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
May I ask a heretic question: Why don't you specify the contract in the
docstring of the protocol?
Yes Meikel that is exactly what I have right now. Just trying to learn
and stir up a discussion here :)
Most times you'll just do fine by passing 'something' to Coolness
functions and expect them to work - they'll just blow up on runtime
(no .compareTo) if that 'something' isn't cool. But imagine certain
scary situations where that 'something' is really 'HalfCool' and still
some 'Coolness' functions work (type dispatch) behind your back!.
(defprotocol Coolness
Yadddayaddablablablubber.
Cool things have to be Comparable and Serializable.
(x .. Since 'this' is cool i assume it is Serializable and
Comparable and so logically I can safely do this cool x thing!)
(y ...))
(deftype ReallyCool ... Coolness .. Comparable .. Serializable)
(deftype SneakyCool .. Coolness)
(x (ReallyCool.)) ;yay rocket launches and reaches moon!
(x (SneakyCool.)) ;rocket launches alright (no exception thrown), but
blows mid air
I know you might argue its a code bug and caller's problem etc. - but
you just allowed a rocket to blow up.
Other times it might be necessary to know if something is 'Cool':
static public ISeq seq(Object coll){
if(coll instanceof ASeq)
return (ASeq) coll;
else if(coll instanceof LazySeq)
return ((LazySeq) coll).seq();
else
return seqFrom(coll);
}
@Laurent,
* first, when I see calls to (instance?) (satisifies?), it rings a bell in my
head. design problem.
Do you see the above seq method as a design problem? - or if you don't
care about Java, consider clojure.walk.
If I understand you correctly (probability of which is less) you don't
really see protocols as defining abstractions - but just as a
convenient tool for polymorphism. Like:
(extend ReallyCool clojure.contrib.json/Write-JSON
{:write-json ...})
But all of this discussion is kind of bypassing my original question,
Meikel you say:
A protocol comprises functions which act on data in a certain abstract way.
I simply asked - is there anything fundamentally wrong with the notion
of those protocols being composable. Protocol P is a set of abstract
functions, can we have a convenient way of saying P = union(P1, P2) ?
On a related note how is this:
(defn dispatch-fn [this ..]
(if (and (comparable? this) (serializable? this))
:green-signal :red-signal)
(defmulti x dispatch-fn)
(defmulti y dispatch-fn)
(defmulti z dispatch-fn)
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
Ok, sounds good (branch). What stack/host is it being hosted on now?I've got a couple crazy AppEngine ideas that have been floating around for the past week or so. Could be a good dogfooding example in itself. -Pete - On Nov 4, 2010 9:39 PM, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to remind you guys that if you plan to work on something, please create an issue for it on Github and let me know, so that I can assign your name to it with a tag and we can avoid duplicating work. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Bug with instance? inside deftypes
Christophe, Is it reasonable to assume that atleast the documentation should be modified to reflect the situation? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: A bug? Unbound Unbound in 1.3-alpha2 when a symbol is not set
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Jacek Laskowski ja...@laskowski.net.plwrote: It begs a question then, why would I do that? Where would that be of use? The behavior has changed, for some context: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2010-10-18.html#12:12c -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
Rayne I loved try clojure! Congrats! I really want to help but running out of time for now. I'll take my hands on that as soon as possible. Cheers. 2010/11/4 Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com: Right. One of the most important aspects of a site like this is it's tutorial. The tutorial should be interactive, much like tryhaskell's tutorial. That's one of the biggest things that needs to be done. Beyond that, tutorial authors would be great as well. If somebody feels like writing a tutorial section or improving the existing ones, have at it. It's a great way to examine your own Clojure knowledge and very helpfully contribute to the project at the same time. On Nov 4, 6:36 pm, box somethingital...@gmail.com wrote: really like the site. i like the tutorial section. it would be nice if the site would focus more on examples. On Nov 4, 5:49 pm, Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.acidrayne.net/?p=25 I wrote this blog post in the hopes that I can motivate people to contribute to tryclojure.http://try-clojure.orgisa relatively important website that is unfortunately subpar. I hope that with the community's help, we can turn it into something spectacular. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- Vilson Vieira vil...@void.cc ((( http://automata.cc ))) ((( http://musa.cc ))) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Meta-circular STM for teaching purposes
Hi Tom, I might not be even remotely qualified but since I'm interested and find the idea cool, so here's my take: - has anyone already experimented with a toy STM in Clojure for didactic purposes? No idea :) - what would be a good resource to start such a design from? (my current plan is to start from http://java.ociweb.com/mark/stm/article.html) I would think a good place to start is to define the primitives and goals: Primitives: assume existence of monitors in Clojure Goals: Implement dosync in Clojure (hefty goal :)) I would love to help out in any capacity since I myself want to get started with understand the STM in more detail. If you need a volunteer you may contact me personally. Thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Reloading java classes
All i need to do is a function to reload a class I specify, nothing fancy. Surely there is some way? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Reloading java classes
JRebel is still the best answer. Loading a class at runtime is non- trivial. I don't know how it deals with handling existing instances of the class, though; I still think CLOS got that right. Dave On Nov 4, 2010 10:03 PM, Seth wbu...@gmail.com wrote: All i need to do is a function to reload a class I specify, nothing fancy. Surely there is some way? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
It's currently hosted on Heinz's (Licenser's) server, which runs apache. On Nov 4, 9:22 pm, pete mcquain pete.mcqu...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, sounds good (branch). What stack/host is it being hosted on now?I've got a couple crazy AppEngine ideas that have been floating around for the past week or so. Could be a good dogfooding example in itself. -Pete - I wouldn't be opposed to a try[ruby|haskell]ish design. The designs are very pretty. If anybody wants to go that route, I'd love to see the results. : On Nov 4, 9:43 pm, Vilson Vieira vil...@void.cc wrote: 2010/11/4 Rayne disciplera...@gmail.com: There is lots to do! If you're decent with web design, then check out the current design and see if you can make it better. I'm sure the HTML is a mess, and heaven knows the CSS is probably a disaster, so maybe you can help out with that. Making tryclojure look good is important as well. tryhaskell is a clone of why_'s tryruby [1]. We can do the same... [1]https://github.com/Sophrinix/TryRuby -- Vilson Vieira vil...@void.cc (((http://automata.cc))) (((http://musa.cc))) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Some questions about Clojure Protocols
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:17 PM, ka sancha...@gmail.com wrote:
May I ask a heretic question: Why don't you specify the contract in the
docstring of the protocol?
(defprotocol Coolness
Yadddayaddablablablubber.
Cool things have to be Comparable and Serializable.
(x .. Since 'this' is cool i assume it is Serializable and
Comparable and so logically I can safely do this cool x thing!)
(y ...))
This would be a terrible protocol - protocols do not compose in this manner.
static public ISeq seq(Object coll){
if(coll instanceof ASeq)
return (ASeq) coll;
else if(coll instanceof LazySeq)
return ((LazySeq) coll).seq();
else
return seqFrom(coll);
}
Do you see the above seq method as a design problem? - or if you don't
care about Java, consider clojure.walk.
You can't fix Java so I'm not sure that's a legitimate example. clojure.walk
suffers from the closed property.
If I understand you correctly (probability of which is less) you don't
really see protocols as defining abstractions - but just as a
convenient tool for polymorphism. Like:
polymorphism *is* a form of abstraction.
I simply asked - is there anything fundamentally wrong with the notion
of those protocols being composable. Protocol P is a set of abstract
functions, can we have a convenient way of saying P = union(P1, P2) ?
This is desirable, but it's not clear whether this should be a feature of
protocols themselves.
On a related note how is this:
(defn dispatch-fn [this ..]
(if (and (comparable? this) (serializable? this))
:green-signal :red-signal)
Aha! Getting warmer.
This highlights a sore spot in the current multimethod implementation - the
dispatch fn is closed. Rich has expressed several times that he would like
to see a predicate dispatch implementation for clojure that removes this
wart.
David
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Tryclojure - A Call To Action
Not to discourage discussion here, but in case anybody missed it in the blog post, we have a google group now if anybody wants to discuss what they're doing, considering doing, or any ideas. http://groups.google.com/group/tryclojure -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
