Are Steve Yegge's comments blogged/written anywhere?
The last post I could find on his blog http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/
was about Haskel and written 12/1/2010.
Thanks.
cmn
On Jul 1, 3:59 pm, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all. I've been looking at Clojure for the past
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:59 AM, octopusgrabbus
octopusgrab...@gmail.com wrote:
Are Steve Yegge's comments blogged/written anywhere?
Googling is your friend -- search for:
steve yegge clojure yes language
and it turns up the original thread as the second result:
On Jul 8, 8:37 pm, Christian Marks 9fv...@gmail.com wrote:
The moral of this story is: don't let anyone clip your wings.
Well said. That is my take away too. It is surprising how to me how
much weight people give to the assertions of others, famous or not. In
truth, this human endeavor of
Thanks.
On Jul 17, 5:52 pm, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:59 AM, octopusgrabbus
octopusgrab...@gmail.com wrote:
Are Steve Yegge's comments blogged/written anywhere?
Googling is your friend -- search for:
steve yegge clojure yes language
and
On Jul 17, 6:43 pm, javajosh javaj...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 8, 8:37 pm, Christian Marks 9fv...@gmail.com wrote:
The moral of this story is: don't let anyone clip your wings.
Well said. That is my take away too. It is surprising how to me how
much weight people give to the assertions of
On Jul 2, 10:30 am, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
What is actually there in his posts in that thread?! blatherings and
generalities about community and attitude and language economics
and marketing that any kid high on weed who'd read a post too many
on reddit's /r/programming
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Vivek Khurana wrote:
That is still not as easy as python. Running VM is a bigger overhead...
There are different kinds of overhead. If the installation and setup of the
VM is simple and
On Jul 7, 4:58 pm, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
For people's sense of sanity, it's not wise to try to run before you
walk. ... But fine, people are free to be impatient and get
frustrated and depressed if they so insist.
I must respectfully disagree. I was interested in
On Jul 8, 2011, at 1:19 AM, Ken Wesson wrote:
If your programming experience lies elsewhere, or you're new to
programming altogether, _insert something here_.
The last one is maybe the trickiest. Best might be a good text editor
for programming that isn't Emacs, combined with leiningen.
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:19 AM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
Certainly true, and this is one of the other reasons that I taught with
Eclipse/CCW rather than an emacs setup last year. But with a well-configured
modern emacs some of this can be ameliorated; e.g. there are Mac
Disclosure: I only began learning/setting up Clojure about a week ago...
Despite putting a relatively sizeable chunk of time into it, I still don't
have what I would consider a pleasant working environment...
How about:
GETTING STARTED
snip
This would have been great - one canonical source
On Jul 8, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Ken Wesson wrote:
(with the downside of the emacs interface learning curve, to whatever extent
that can't be addressed via configuration)
That's not a downside, that's a pit full of sharks with lasers on
their heads, at least from your hypothetical newb's
On Jul 8, 6:19 am, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On Jul 7, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
And yet the #1 FAQ we see on lists and reflected in blog posts is
about getting Clojure up and running... We
do not
expect to start hacking clojure in the morning and be productive
and accomplishing work in the afternoon of that same day
reality is cruel: http://norvig.com/21-days.html
but fair ... isn't it ?
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On Jul 8, 2011, at 10:29 AM, James Keats wrote:
May I also add the following caveat emptors:
- If you're new to programming, clojure will overwhelm you. Start with
something like python.
I disagree. This is a subject of religious debates that I don't want to get
into in detail, but FWIW this
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
May I also add the following caveat emptors:
- If you're new to programming, clojure will overwhelm you. Start with
something like python.
I think most programming languages overwhelm you if you don't have any prior
I disagree. This is a subject of religious debates that I don't want to get
into in detail, but FWIW this educator thinks that Lisp is a perfectly
defensible first language and that Clojure can serve the purpose quite well
as long as installation and tooling doesn't make it ?unnecessarily
Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu writes:
On Jul 8, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Ken Wesson wrote:
(with the downside of the emacs interface learning curve, to whatever
extent that can't be addressed via configuration)
That's not a downside, that's a pit full of sharks with lasers on
their heads,
On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Phil Hagelberg wrote:
Have you tried the Vagrant approach? It's a one-button
Emacs/Clojure/Leiningen hacking VM setup[1]:
I haven't, although I've been watching the list traffic on this. Now I see that
I must. I will!
Thanks,
-Lee
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You received this
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Phil Hagelberg p...@hagelb.org wrote:
Have you tried the Vagrant approach? It's a one-button
Emacs/Clojure/Leiningen hacking VM setup[1]:
https://github.com/Seajure/emacs-clojure-vagrant
-Phil
[1] - provided you have virtualbox.
That is still not as easy
On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Vivek Khurana wrote:
That is still not as easy as python. Running VM is a bigger overhead...
There are different kinds of overhead. If the installation and setup of the VM
is simple and bullet proof then this is acceptable overhead for me.
On the other hand I
It looks like you haven't got enough privileges, try sudo gem install
vagrant
Jonathan
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Vivek Khurana wrote:
That is still not as easy as python. Running VM is a bigger overhead...
There
On Jul 8, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Jonathan Fischer Friberg wrote:
It looks like you haven't got enough privileges, try sudo gem install
vagrant
Thanks. That solved some of the problems (and I would suggest that sudo be
added to the vagrant readme instructions) but I still get:
ERROR: Error
2011/7/8 Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu
ERROR: Error installing vagrant:
thor requires RubyGems version = 1.3.6
So I guess I need to track that down...
what does gem --version output?
To upgrade rubygems, use
[sudo] gem update --system
--
MK
http://github.com/michaelklishin
I think we need to be careful here about the association between Java
and Clojure. Sure, they run on the JVM, but that is their *only*
relationship (from a consumer's point of view) as far as I can see.
For me, after a decade+ of developing Enterprise Java (primarily web)
applications I am sick
On Jul 8, 4:30 pm, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On Jul 8, 2011, at 10:29 AM, James Keats wrote:
May I also add the following caveat emptors:
- If you're new to programming, clojure will overwhelm you. Start with
something like python.
I disagree. This is a subject of
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:29 AM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
- If you're new to programming, clojure will overwhelm you. Start with
something like python.
Totally disagree. Lisps have been many people's first introduction to
programming over several decades and it works extremely
I don't agree that clojure is, or should be seen as something entirely
different than java. If it weren't for java, clojure wouldn't have much use
at all.
When it comes to IDEs, I agree. I write all code in vim (for editing only),
and do the rest from the command line (meaning mostly leiningen).
Read my blog post (written a year ago; updated several times to ensure
it works with newer versions of Clojure and Leiningen):
http://corfield.org/blog/post.cfm/getting-started-with-clojure
Now replace clojure.org/getting_started with something like that and I
think most of the complaints
On Jul 8, 2011, at 1:24 PM, Michael Klishin wrote:
what does gem --version output?
It was 1.3.5.
To upgrade rubygems, use
[sudo] gem update --system
Thanks so much. I've now successfully upgraded rubygems and completed the sudo
gem install vagrant step without error.
I will take
If it weren't for McDonalds I wouldn't have such a large belly, but my
belly isn't McDonalds ;) I jest (obviously!), but I do think this is
a fundamental point. I (like a lot of others I expect) found Clojure
and Scala whilst looking for Java.next. I read a bit about Scala, and
part of its
I think we need to be careful here about the association between Java
and Clojure. Sure, they run on the JVM, but that is their *only*
relationship (from a consumer's point of view) as far as I can see.
Clojure != Java - different paradigms, different mindsets, different
beasts.
Read my blog post (written a year ago; updated several times to ensure
it works with newer versions of Clojure and Leiningen):
http://corfield.org/blog/post.cfm/getting-started-with-clojure
Now replace clojure.org/getting_started with something like that and I
think most of the complaints
Mailing my contributor agreement today so I can helpreally
excited!
May I just add that at the same level of prominence after the no
decisions beginner path, we might also put a tutorial on Web (via
Noir, perhaps?) and Incanter development? Those are two amazing
applications of
Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu writes:
Thanks so much. I've now successfully upgraded rubygems and completed
the sudo gem install vagrant step without error.
I will take the next steps shortly.
Is this an okay place to make suggestions about the vagrant readme? In
addition to adding
On Jul 8, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
Now replace clojure.org/getting_started with something like that and I
think most of the complaints would go away. No one needs a fancy
editor / IDE setup to use Clojure - the key is just getting it
installed and then a REPL to experiment and a
On Jul 8, 8:02 pm, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
I'm with you 95% here, but I do think that this much editor fanciness is
needed to have a sane environment for coding lisp for anything more than a
few minutes: bracket-matching and language-aware auto-re-indenting. If
there's
On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Phil Hagelberg wrote:
Maybe a troubleshooting section at the bottom of the readme? Sounds
good to me; feel free to issue a pull request.
I don't have the expertise to write such a thing.
In other news, I've now done vagrant up in the directory containing the
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Stuart Halloway
stuart.hallo...@gmail.com wrote:
Here's a possible plan:
1. Core will produce a smaller, up-to-date page
for clojure.org/getting_started. This page will do less, and will link out
prominently to the contributor wiki. Turnaround time on this:
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Jonathan Fischer Friberg
odysso...@gmail.com wrote:
You probably don't mean an actual hello world program, but let's compare
them anyway.
python:
print hello world
clojure:
(print hello world)
Not that much harder, is it?
And probably slightly *easier*
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote:
As a quick compare...
Python:
python-pygame
Clojure:
JDK-lein-clojure-penumbra
If you download and install Eclipse or NetBeans they will install a
JDK by default, and if you then use their internal plugin browsers
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Vivek Khurana hiddenharm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Phil Hagelberg p...@hagelb.org wrote:
Have you tried the Vagrant approach? It's a one-button
Emacs/Clojure/Leiningen hacking VM setup[1]:
On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:30 PM, James Keats wrote:
Sam Aaron's emacs setup with cake's swank is really really nice. It
could possibly be combined with a cheatsheet for emacs' most needed
keyboard shortcuts.
inc!
May I also add that I found remapping some keyboard keys quite useful
I'd
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:23 PM, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
Read my blog post (written a year ago; updated several times to ensure
it works with newer versions of Clojure and Leiningen):
http://corfield.org/blog/post.cfm/getting-started-with-clojure
Now replace
On Jul 8, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
If you download and install Eclipse or NetBeans they will install a
JDK by default, and if you then use their internal plugin browsers to
find and install CCW resp. Enclojure, they will install Clojure 1.2.0
(last time I checked) for you and set
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:30 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
May I also add that I found remapping some keyboard keys quite useful
for a sane emacs lisp editing experience. It gives me 3 ctrl keys on
the right and 3 ctrl keys on the left so I could basically use any of
my
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
I think I said recently that several setups are about 95% the way to being
newbie-friendly, and while the missing 5% for emacs/lein is mostly in
installation/configuration the missing 5% for Eclipse is in project
2011/7/9 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com
e.g. Python interpreter
Sorry, why does Clojure starter kit need to embed Python? I couldn't
figure it out from
a few recent posts.
--
MK
http://github.com/michaelklishin
http://twitter.com/michaelklishin
--
You received this message because you are
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Michael Klishin
michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/7/9 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com
e.g. Python interpreter
Sorry, why does Clojure starter kit need to embed Python? I couldn't
figure it out from
a few recent posts.
Leiningen is a script, and I thought
2011/7/9 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com
Leiningen is a script, and I thought it might be a Python script.
On Windows, the interpreter won't typically already be installed
anyway -- at least, you can't count on it.
Ken,
Leiningen is not just a script. It is a Clojure application with a
On Jul 8, 2011, at 7:13 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
My concern there is with newbies just getting their feet wet in
Clojure needing to hack a Clojure file in order to start learning how
to hack Clojure files. :)
Yeah, but it's a minimal copy this line and your library name goes here kind
of edit
@nchubrich
It did go on too long. I hope when someone \does read it, they will
see I am not being wholly unreasonable.
i liked to read through it anyway ...
I was drawn to Clojure because I felt it was another
evolutionary step in programming. I hope I am not wrong.
i feel and hope
I think we need to nail the intro / setup experience and I'm nailing
my colors to Leiningen. I think that needs to be adopted as the
default, standard way to get up and running on Clojure and all the
official tutorials need to be updated to reflect that.
I think getting an experienced
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:42 AM, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
* Since Lisp is highly extensible, in the long run being
'prescriptive' is a losing battle. It is better to eventually add
standard 'bad' features to the language than to tempt third parties to
do it in even worse and
It may be that I am really talking about the website (clojure.org, not
any of the auxiliary ones, which are a bit of a mess in themselves)
more than the language itself. If people receive the \right
instructions, setting up Emacs/Leiningen/Web servers etc. is actually
not so hard. The
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:42 AM, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
...
* It also can do a better job of attracting and retaining core
contributors. I cited an example of someone who posted a patch to
make refs persistent. She ended up being ignored, and left for
Erlang. But Clojure
On Jul 7, 6:42 am, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
I'll try :) It was really a polemical post for a polemical thread,
but my main points can be extracted here. Feel free to read as many
or as few of them as you are inclined
nchubrich, I've read your original post in its entirely, so
On Jul 7, 8:09 am, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote
(As for Steve Yeggeis he reading all this?if he's totally
wrong, then of course people should feel free to disagree with him,
and forget about the consequences. But if he happens to be \right,
and I do think he mostly is, then
For instance, a little while ago I was corresponding with someone who
had released a patch to Clojure. (This was Alyssa Kwan, in case you
want to look up the thread.) Her patch made refs persistent to
disksomething that seemed very much in the spirit of Clojure.
Dealing with disk
On Jul 6, 2011, at 10:06 PM, nchubrich wrote:
And as to improving
documentation, how is one to go about doing it? This would be an
excellent area to have some community effort on, especially from
relative beginners, and that is an itch I would not mind scratching.
Stuart Halloway
I think Yegge clarified in a follow-up post that what he really meant
to say was say yes to USERS, not say yes to FEATURES, but in his
typical off-the-cuff ranty writing style, he had accidentally
conflated the two.
As far as saying yes to every feature, I think that is obviously not a
great
Thank you, Logan, you put it very well. You're absolutely right there
can be an inherent instinct against user-friendliness in open-source
software, as well as a kind of hierarchyand you've identified the
source and nature of it, I think. The response to this is not to try
to become
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Stuart Halloway
stuart.hallo...@gmail.com wrote:
(1) Edit and improve the official
docs: http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started
I think one sticking point here is that there are (so far) seven
IDEs/editors listed and five build tools. For a n00b,
On Jul 7, 8:03 pm, logan duskli...@gmail.com wrote:
This poisonous attitude is perfectly exemplified in this thread by
James Keats.
I completely disagree with your mis-characterization and invite you to
read again what I had maintained:
- I had implored that technical arguments alone should
Stu---
Thanks for the links. I took a look at clojure dev and signed up. I
don't see any way to editdoes that happen after I mail in the
Contributor agreement? It does seem a little medieval to have to mail
it in.
Clojure dev though doesn't seem like such a direct way of improving
On Jul 7, 8:35 pm, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote
someone whose name I can't remember right now
once said, There are no bad students, only bad teachers.
There are three good books already and more on the way (I look forward
to Clojure in Action later this month), there are excellent
Hi,
Am 07.07.2011 um 21:54 schrieb Sean Corfield:
I think one sticking point here is that there are (so far) seven
IDEs/editors listed and five build tools. For a n00b, that's too much
choice.
I'm always bewildered by this argument. What has a newbie to choose here? Of
course he uses what
I'm always bewildered by this argument. What has a newbie to choose here? Of
course he uses what he's used to. Many Java devs probably want one of the
IDEs they already know. Old-time Lispers use emacs.
I think it's a question of style and how to present the information
(which is why it
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
I'm always bewildered by this argument. What has a newbie to choose here? Of
course he uses what he's used to. Many Java devs probably want one of the
IDEs they already know. Old-time Lispers use emacs.
And yet the #1 FAQ
On Jul 7, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
And yet the #1 FAQ we see on lists and reflected in blog posts is
about getting Clojure up and running... We see Java developers,
committed to their favorite IDE, still asking Should I install /
learn Emacs? We see old-time Lispers, happy with
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On Jul 7, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
And yet the #1 FAQ we see on lists and reflected in blog posts is
about getting Clojure up and running... We see Java developers,
committed to their favorite IDE, still
On Jul 5, 11:07 pm, faenvie fanny.aen...@gmx.de wrote:
note on the original posting:
First, he shouldn't be porting Java code to clojure, Second, Clojure IS
fundamentally different from Java, and third, such said users who
don't want to touch Java should not touch Clojure.
to port
On Tuesday, July 5, 2011 8:08:51 PM UTC+2, Sean Corfield wrote:
It might be an interesting community exercise to examine the 23 GoF
patterns and discuss whether they are applicable in an FP world and,
if a pattern _is_ still applicable, what it would look like?
Hi Sean,
take a look at
On Jul 5, 7:30 pm, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:34 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
For example I suggest you look at this video/transcript and pay
attention
I've been using Clojure on and off for a whilecurrently off,
though not because of the language itself. The thread now seems to
have moved in a different direction, but I have to say (looking at the
Seajure and Y Combinator threads) that Steve Yegge has some good
points. And ending up here
nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com writes:
A few people could spend a few tens of hours making things easier for
everyone else, thereby saving thousands of man-hours (isn't this
supposed to be what programming is about in the first place?), and yet
it doesn't happen.
Really? It doesn't happen?
And ending up here with a thread titled stand firm
against... seems to be exactly the sort of community problem that he
is worried about.
To be fair, this post and its title were the work of an individual who has
only been in this community for about 3 weeks. And while that individual,
and
To Phil: I am certainly not complaining about your efforts on
Leiningen, Swank, etc. I appreciate them and use themthey have
already made things vastly easier for people, and the problems with
setting up Emacs, certainly, are probably more to do with Emacs
itself. I am just pointing out that
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:06 PM, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
As to making contributions, I just pointed out an example of someone
who made a contribution and was ignored.
Does the term tl;dr mean anything to you? I doubt very many people
got that far in the wall of text you posted
It did go on too long. I hope when someone \does read it, they will
see I am not being wholly unreasonable.
On Jul 6, 7:21 pm, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:06 PM, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
As to making contributions, I just pointed out an
And I thought my posts were long :)
Luc P.
On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
It did go on too long. I hope when someone \does read it, they will
see I am not being wholly unreasonable.
On Jul 6, 7:21 pm, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
Does the term tl;dr mean anything to you?
I'll remember this date - I find myself really liking / agreeing with
one of Ken's posts :)
Sorry nchubrich but that really was far too long - I started reading
but couldn't find any
I'll try :) It was really a polemical post for a polemical thread,
but my main points can be extracted here. Feel free to read as many
or as few of them as you are inclined:
* Clojure still ends up turning off new users more than it needs to.
This may be partly an issue of priorities (see the
Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com writes:
Hi Ken,
A related case may be when you're not making just a straight wrapper,
but adding something -- your own pre/post checks, or argument
transformations, or etc.
As for binding to a Var, that makes sense if the result is not as
trivial as #(.meth %)
So, another justification for wrapping a Java method is when it's a
layer boundary and the Java method is two (or more) layers lower than
the caller, basically.
This suggests a generalization as well: that there's a form of Law of
Demeter applied to layers (and libraries) where one should tend to
Of the people I've tried to expose to Clojure over the last six months,
I've definitely found that those with less OO experience tend to pick
it up much quicker.
that's exactly true for me: 40+ years old and OO-centric-Programmer
since 1995.
it takes me one year now to reach a highlevel quality
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:54 AM, faenvie fanny.aen...@gmx.de wrote:
that's exactly true for me: 40+ years old and OO-centric-Programmer
since 1995.
it takes me one year now to reach a highlevel quality in programming
clojure.
I sympathize! I turn 49 this week (Thursday) and have been doing OO
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:34 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
For example I suggest you look at this video/transcript and pay
attention in particular to the point of debate between Joe Armstrong
of Erlang
note on the original posting:
First, he shouldn't be porting Java code to clojure, Second, Clojure IS
fundamentally different from Java, and third, such said users who
don't want to touch Java should not touch Clojure.
to port java-code to clojure-code is certainly not the
right thing to do
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 21:33, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 3:21 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
And once you encounter the
reality and frustration infamously characterized by likening the
managing of lispers to the herding of cats then you
On Jul 3, 6:15 am, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
There's one obvious use case for such a wrapper function, though: if
you'll want to pass the Java method to HOFs from time to time. You
can't directly pass a Java method to a HOF, but you can pass such a
wrapper function.
Pardon me
A function is a function, whether it is bound to a Var or not. I think that
was Ken's point, that you need to wrap a Java method in a function
(anonymous or named) in order to pass to an HOF, as Java methods are not
first class. So, that is one instance where a function whose sole purpose
is to
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Mark Rathwell mark.rathw...@gmail.com wrote:
A function is a function, whether it is bound to a Var or not. I think that
was Ken's point, that you need to wrap a Java method in a function
(anonymous or named) in order to pass to an HOF, as Java methods are not
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Nick Brown nwbr...@gmail.com wrote:
But not the lots of developers part. As much as I like
Clojure, it has nowhere near the level of developers languages like
Java or Python. And to be honest, that constraint is much more
convincing for most software managers
In addition, completion on vars is usually much better than on methods. Plus
using javadoc when you're used to docstrings feels a bit like using a card
catalog when you're used to having Wikipedia in your pocket.
-Phil
On Jul 2, 2011 10:15 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
--
You
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:14 AM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
Again, to be absolutely clear, I do believe it's easily possible to
muck up a java or python code base, but I regard the foundational
design and community cultures of those languages to be conducive to
large, long-term
On Jul 3, 9:02 pm, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:14 AM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps we move in different circles but I've seen as much bad Java
in the large as I ever used to see bad FORTRAN and bad C / C++
code over the years. I
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:34 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
For example I suggest you look at this video/transcript and pay
attention in particular to the point of debate between Joe Armstrong
of Erlang and Martin Odersky of Scala
I agree, that clojure will not gain java-like popularity in
a forseeable future.
IMO clojure is much more a Language for SystemProgrammers
(high demands, thinking in concurrency) than a Language for
ApplicationProgrammers (midsize demands, thinking singlethread)
it does not have to target general
I find clojure suitable to pretty much every problem I've come across so
far, since it allows me to write concise, low-ceremony code. The bottom-up
approach helps raising the abstraction level, and soon the concepts of your
domain will surface, so that the code starts reflecting the language you
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