Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

My solar panel feeds the house battery. If I leave the ACR on it will combine 
and charge the engine start battery when the voltage gets high enough or I can 
leave it off and it doesn’t.
I usually left it off when I was on my mooring to get max effort for the house 
battery. The start battery was usually full anyway.


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Agreed. Probably, I should have said that the fuse should protect the _smaller_ 
of the wire and device load.

The mental shortcut (protect the wire) comes from the fact that most electronic 
devices have a protection built in. But i have to agree that many devices on 
our boats are not necessarily electronic.

Marek


 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Date: 2020-08-02 22:29 (GMT-05:00)
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

Marek,

Respectfully, I disagree with your statement on the size of the fuse and basing 
it on the gauge of the wire.  I'm pretty sure the max amperage of the fuse 
should be based on the rating of the smallest down stream item, this limiting 
item could be the wire but generally should not be.  This is an important 
distinction since many times, the gauge of the wire is larger than the rating 
of the remote device.  This is done to reduce the line loss and is especially 
important to consider when developing a solar charging system.  Even small 
amounts of line loss can represent a high percentage loss of the available AHrs.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 18:55 Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
The fuse needs to protect the wire (not the end device). This means that you 
pick a fuse based on the size of the wire.

Marek


 Original message 
From: Len Mitchell via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Date: 2020-08-02 15:56 (GMT-05:00)
To: CNC List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Len Mitchell mailto:xfireca...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

Charlie, I like the house bank charge priority or wherever your automatic bilge 
pump or refrigerator is connected, whatever you find most important while you 
are away from the boat. Your post says small solar panel and a 50 amp fuse. 
Those two don’t match! If you over size the fuse the wire becomes the fuse if 
you see where I am going. The fuse needs to be appropriate for the output of 
the solar panel and the wire large enough to carry the current the distance so 
the fuse blows if there is a short rather than the wire lights up like a 
resistance heater. For example a 250 watt solar panel (not small) is fused at 
20 or 25 amps. Check the output of the panel you buy and size the fuse then 
wire for the length of wire. If you have room a bigger panel is better than 
small depending on what you want it to do.
Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs
1989 37+
Midland On

Sent from my mobile device.
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Marek,

Respectfully, I disagree with your statement on the size of the fuse and
basing it on the gauge of the wire.  I'm pretty sure the max amperage of
the fuse should be based on the rating of the smallest down stream item,
this limiting item could be the wire but generally should not be.  This is
an important distinction since many times, the gauge of the wire is larger
than the rating of the remote device.  This is done to reduce the line loss
and is especially important to consider when developing a solar charging
system.  Even small amounts of line loss can represent a high percentage
loss of the available AHrs.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 18:55 Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The fuse needs to protect the wire (not the end device). This means that
> you pick a fuse based on the size of the wire.
>
> Marek
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Len Mitchell via CnC-List 
> Date: 2020-08-02 15:56 (GMT-05:00)
> To: CNC List 
> Cc: Len Mitchell 
> Subject: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment
>
> Charlie, I like the house bank charge priority or wherever your automatic
> bilge pump or refrigerator is connected, whatever you find most important
> while you are away from the boat. Your post says small solar panel and a 50
> amp fuse. Those two don’t match! If you over size the fuse the wire becomes
> the fuse if you see where I am going. The fuse needs to be appropriate for
> the output of the solar panel and the wire large enough to carry the
> current the distance so the fuse blows if there is a short rather than the
> wire lights up like a resistance heater. For example a 250 watt solar panel
> (not small) is fused at 20 or 25 amps. Check the output of the panel you
> buy and size the fuse then wire for the length of wire. If you have room a
> bigger panel is better than small depending on what you want it to do.
> Len Mitchell
> Crazy Legs
> 1989 37+
> Midland On
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

The fuse needs to protect the wire (not the end device). This means that you 
pick a fuse based on the size of the wire.

Marek


 Original message 
From: Len Mitchell via CnC-List 
Date: 2020-08-02 15:56 (GMT-05:00)
To: CNC List 
Cc: Len Mitchell 
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

Charlie, I like the house bank charge priority or wherever your automatic bilge 
pump or refrigerator is connected, whatever you find most important while you 
are away from the boat. Your post says small solar panel and a 50 amp fuse. 
Those two don’t match! If you over size the fuse the wire becomes the fuse if 
you see where I am going. The fuse needs to be appropriate for the output of 
the solar panel and the wire large enough to carry the current the distance so 
the fuse blows if there is a short rather than the wire lights up like a 
resistance heater. For example a 250 watt solar panel (not small) is fused at 
20 or 25 amps. Check the output of the panel you buy and size the fuse then 
wire for the length of wire. If you have room a bigger panel is better than 
small depending on what you want it to do.
Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs
1989 37+
Midland On

Sent from my mobile device.
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Dunno about the ACR but my Digital Duo from Balmar does not allow the reverse 
flow of current i.e. start battery back to house battery.  It’s a one way 
charge, per voltage being reached, of house to start battery.  Start cannot 
charge house.

So in my version  of the world the solar panels should only be connected to the 
house battery (as is the alternator and 110 shore charger.)

David F. Risch
Managing Director
Great Benefits USA
401-419-4650 - Direct Line
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1iPWGeVIdWdypHSMZPtJX0mxirxyZ4ZBN&revid=0B9uSW32EcB8tZGxlWW1OMlJ6MXU0bmVaaFByQmlSVDMrOWNVPQ]
www.greatbenefitsusa.com<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1MKVfvkygVP51lGc2yziNIFDb1f7QyqlMMC0Ws5XFwrh5Z29yk8V9-H-BpWPdc4H-KLGYNJ8xByn00jzsd-2Ha4CJqta-Oi4SR3zv-ilvvFQgk2r1dTGx91oAnCtrCtWX3971epXdF8ZQx6oCN2aVAz4G2C1e3AFPPZNeJDlLweF62zGZQ07PHpl8HRpYdWC2krf8nk8VytnngLfzo-HMlRvyliYY5btbWmG2ov1MoH8MQ_Pu-H9km1SSOFq4VsiFRn62vshzHwa2jYYWiHfn79noxm3wQLeI3kjNdWmHg705FbzWALYFp_QCz0Eu9z0S/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatbenefitsusa.com%2F>

The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient 
specified in message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of this 
message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender. If you 
received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and follow with 
its deletion, so that we can ensure such a mistake does not occur in the future.
Great Benefits USA puts the security of the client at a high priority. 
Therefore, we have put efforts into ensuring that the message is error and 
virus-free. Unfortunately, full security of the email cannot be ensured as, 
despite our efforts, the data included in emails could be infected, 
intercepted, or corrupted. Therefore, the recipient should check the email for 
threats with proper software, as the sender does not accept liability for any 
damage inflicted by viewing the content of this email.

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via 
CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 2:15 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

Edd,

The general idea is that your starting (Auxiliary Power) battery does not get 
used much and does not get discharged much (it is used only for a few seconds/ 
half a minute). Therefore, it does not need much charging and it gets back to a 
full charge very quickly (quite often before the engine is shut off). The House 
(Main Power) battery (battery bank), which is a true deep charge (deep 
discharge) and (usually) much bigger, requires much more charging.

Therefore, all charging sources should go to the house bank, to maximise its 
charging, with the start battery getting whatever is left over, because it does 
not need much.

Since all of your on-board devices are connected to the house bank, this bank 
is discharged regularly. Having the start battery separated makes sure that you 
can start the engine, even if the house bank is fully depleted.

Having said all that, keep in mind that many boats are configured with bank A 
and B (not house and start) and if you have the same batteries in both (A and 
B) banks, it does not matter which battery is primary and which is secondary 
and therefore it does not matter, how the charging sources are attached, as 
long as both banks are properly charged.

For solar charging systems there are options available (e.g. Mornigstar Sun 
Saver Duo) that can charge both banks at the same time. They even allow to 
configure the split (I have mine set to 90:10 (%) – 90% going to house).

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 12:39
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Edd Schillay<mailto:e...@schillay.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

Charlie,

While some will swear that all charging sources (solar, alternator, etc.) 
should go to the same bank, I have yet to see any real reason anywhere as to 
why.

When it is sunny, your ACR will see 13V or more and combine everything anyway. 
You can connect your solar to house or engine - whichever is easiest.

I have an ACR installed. My alternator is connected to the engine bank. My 
solar and 110V charger is connected to the house bank. System has been working 
perfectly for many years now. Everything is fully charged.

Of course, on my boat, we don’t call it “house” and “engine” - it’s Main Power 
and Auxiliary Power.
All the best,

Edd

———-
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”
C&C 37+ | Sail No.: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
www.StarshipSailing.com<http://www.StarshipSailing.com>
———-
914.774.9767   | Mobile
———-
Sent via iPhone 11 Pro
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


On Aug 2, 2020, at 12:21 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-L

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Edd,

The general idea is that your starting (Auxiliary Power) battery does not get 
used much and does not get discharged much (it is used only for a few seconds/ 
half a minute). Therefore, it does not need much charging and it gets back to a 
full charge very quickly (quite often before the engine is shut off). The House 
(Main Power) battery (battery bank), which is a true deep charge (deep 
discharge) and (usually) much bigger, requires much more charging.

Therefore, all charging sources should go to the house bank, to maximise its 
charging, with the start battery getting whatever is left over, because it does 
not need much.

Since all of your on-board devices are connected to the house bank, this bank 
is discharged regularly. Having the start battery separated makes sure that you 
can start the engine, even if the house bank is fully depleted.

Having said all that, keep in mind that many boats are configured with bank A 
and B (not house and start) and if you have the same batteries in both (A and 
B) banks, it does not matter which battery is primary and which is secondary 
and therefore it does not matter, how the charging sources are attached, as 
long as both banks are properly charged.

For solar charging systems there are options available (e.g. Mornigstar Sun 
Saver Duo) that can charge both banks at the same time. They even allow to 
configure the split (I have mine set to 90:10 (%) – 90% going to house).

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 12:39
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Edd Schillay<mailto:e...@schillay.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

Charlie,

While some will swear that all charging sources (solar, alternator, etc.) 
should go to the same bank, I have yet to see any real reason anywhere as to 
why.

When it is sunny, your ACR will see 13V or more and combine everything anyway. 
You can connect your solar to house or engine - whichever is easiest.

I have an ACR installed. My alternator is connected to the engine bank. My 
solar and 110V charger is connected to the house bank. System has been working 
perfectly for many years now. Everything is fully charged.

Of course, on my boat, we don’t call it “house” and “engine” - it’s Main Power 
and Auxiliary Power.
All the best,

Edd


———-
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”
C&C 37+ | Sail No.: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
www.StarshipSailing.com
———-
914.774.9767   | Mobile
———-
Sent via iPhone 11 Pro
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize



On Aug 2, 2020, at 12:21 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

1st, thanks to the list members for the replies re my questions on jump 
starting a battery in a house and start battery bank set-up with an ACR. I 
think I have that straight!

While I think I know the answer to the following question, I am pretty sure 
that others on the list know the answer!

I plan to add a small solar panel to my system to keep the batteries topped off 
while I am away from the boat. (I prefer not to have shore power hooked up 
unless I am on board.)

Since the ACR will distribute the solar power to the battery that needs it most 
(or both if they are at the same state of charge), does it matter whether I 
hook up the solar power via the mppt controller to the house or start battery 
bank?

My current plan is to use a Blue Seas buss bar with a 50 Amp mrbf fuse to the 
positive terminal of the house battery bank.

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I put in a dual battery solar charge controller (SunSaver) when I added my 
solar panel, wired directly to the two batteries.  Dave
  
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Aug 2, 2020, at 12:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 1st, thanks to the list members for the replies re my questions on jump 
> starting a battery in a house and start battery bank set-up with an ACR. I 
> think I have that straight!
> 
> While I think I know the answer to the following question, I am pretty sure 
> that others on the list know the answer!
> 
> I plan to add a small solar panel to my system to keep the batteries topped 
> off while I am away from the boat. (I prefer not to have shore power hooked 
> up unless I am on board.)
> 
> Since the ACR will distribute the solar power to the battery that needs it 
> most (or both if they are at the same state of charge), does it matter 
> whether I hook up the solar power via the mppt controller to the house or 
> start battery bank?
> 
> My current plan is to use a Blue Seas buss bar with a 50 Amp mrbf fuse to the 
> positive terminal of the house battery bank.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C&C 36 XL/kcb
> 
>  
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Charlie, I agree with your plan.  I also agree with Edd's reasoning that it
may not make much difference.  As such, if attaching to one battery or
another had a logistical advantage I would not hesitate.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 12:21 Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> 1st, thanks to the list members for the replies re my questions on jump
> starting a battery in a house and start battery bank set-up with an ACR. I
> think I have that straight!
>
> While I think I know the answer to the following question, I am pretty
> sure that others on the list know the answer!
>
> I plan to add a small solar panel to my system to keep the batteries
> topped off while I am away from the boat. (I prefer not to have shore power
> hooked up unless I am on board.)
>
> Since the ACR will distribute the solar power to the battery that needs it
> most (or both if they are at the same state of charge), does it matter
> whether I hook up the solar power via the mppt controller to the house or
> start battery bank?
>
> My current plan is to use a Blue Seas buss bar with a 50 Amp mrbf fuse to
> the positive terminal of the house battery bank.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C&C 36 XL/kcb
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Charlie,

While some will swear that all charging sources (solar, alternator, etc.) 
should go to the same bank, I have yet to see any real reason anywhere as to 
why. 

When it is sunny, your ACR will see 13V or more and combine everything anyway. 
You can connect your solar to house or engine - whichever is easiest. 

I have an ACR installed. My alternator is connected to the engine bank. My 
solar and 110V charger is connected to the house bank. System has been working 
perfectly for many years now. Everything is fully charged. 

Of course, on my boat, we don’t call it “house” and “engine” - it’s Main Power 
and Auxiliary Power. 

All the best, 

Edd

———-
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”
C&C 37+ | Sail No.: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
www.StarshipSailing.com
———-
914.774.9767   | Mobile
———-
Sent via iPhone 11 Pro
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


On Aug 2, 2020, at 12:21 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:


1st, thanks to the list members for the replies re my questions on jump 
starting a battery in a house and start battery bank set-up with an ACR. I 
think I have that straight!

While I think I know the answer to the following question, I am pretty sure 
that others on the list know the answer!

I plan to add a small solar panel to my system to keep the batteries topped off 
while I am away from the boat. (I prefer not to have shore power hooked up 
unless I am on board.)

Since the ACR will distribute the solar power to the battery that needs it most 
(or both if they are at the same state of charge), does it matter whether I 
hook up the solar power via the mppt controller to the house or start battery 
bank?

My current plan is to use a Blue Seas buss bar with a 50 Amp mrbf fuse to the 
positive terminal of the house battery bank.

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb

 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels in ACR environment

[ed vanderkruk via CnC-List]

I'd attach it to the house battery side. That is if you have misc always-on
loads like bilge pumps on that side. You have to be sure the panels put out
something above the connect voltage of the ACR. Any panel coming with a
regulator is probably ok.

Although you will have a fuse on the battery to the bus bar you will still
require appropriate fuses for the other things connected. For example both
sides of the positive connections on the ACR.


Ed
Prime Interest LF38
Toronto

On Sun., Aug. 2, 2020, 12:21 p.m. Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> 1st, thanks to the list members for the replies re my questions on jump
> starting a battery in a house and start battery bank set-up with an ACR. I
> think I have that straight!
>
> While I think I know the answer to the following question, I am pretty
> sure that others on the list know the answer!
>
> I plan to add a small solar panel to my system to keep the batteries
> topped off while I am away from the boat. (I prefer not to have shore power
> hooked up unless I am on board.)
>
> Since the ACR will distribute the solar power to the battery that needs it
> most (or both if they are at the same state of charge), does it matter
> whether I hook up the solar power via the mppt controller to the house or
> start battery bank?
>
> My current plan is to use a Blue Seas buss bar with a 50 Amp mrbf fuse to
> the positive terminal of the house battery bank.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C&C 36 XL/kcb
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

Both are modified square wave.

Joe

On 9/24/2019 9:26 PM, bwhitmore via CnC-List wrote:
Joe,  just out of curiosity, is the big inverter pure sine wave, or 
both or neither?




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
Date: 9/24/19 7:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

The big charger-inverters are complicated beasts. I sold and installed 
a lot of them back in the day.


I have a ProNautic 15 amp charger, a separate 300 watt inverter, and a 
separate 1200 watt inverter. Either one can drive the cabin outlets 
depending on a switch. The 300 watt unit is silent and draws very 
little in standby. It gets used most of the time, but if I need a big 
tool or the hairdryer we fire up the 1200 watt inverter. It has a fan 
you can hear, so we don’t use it when we don’t need to.


All 3 together are less than a big inverter/charger.

*/Joe Della Barba/*

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*sv Rebecca Leah via CnC-List

*Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2019 7:14 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* sv Rebecca Leah 
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

I have to agree with you Dennis. I have a 2.5k inverter/charger I 
would love to get rid of. It's big and I don't like the way it's wired 
into my boat. I had a fault while out cruising earlier this month, 
that rendered the whole unit us less. Except for ballast. Luckily I 
was able to reset the fault.


Doug Mountjoy

Sv Rebecca Leah

C&C LF39

Port Orchard YC wa.

 Original message 

From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>


Date: 9/24/19 12:40 (GMT-08:00)

To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>

Cc: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>

Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

Chuck,

Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't 
like them.  Others may disagree.


If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate 
charger and a separate inverter.


Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.

Chuck Gilchrest


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[bwhitmore via CnC-List]

Joe,  just out of curiosity, is the big inverter pure sine wave, or both or 
neither?Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
 Date: 9/24/19  7:51 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Della Barba, Joe"  Subject: 
Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters 

The big charger-inverters are complicated beasts. I sold and installed a lot of 
them back in the day.
I have a ProNautic 15 amp charger, a separate 300 watt inverter, and a separate 
1200 watt inverter. Either one can drive the cabin outlets depending on a 
switch.
 The 300 watt unit is silent and draws very little in standby. It gets used 
most of the time, but if I need a big tool or the hairdryer we fire up the 1200 
watt inverter. It has a fan you can hear, so we don’t use it when we don’t need 
to.
All 3 together are less than a big inverter/charger.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of sv Rebecca Leah via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 7:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: sv Rebecca Leah 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters


 

I have to agree with you Dennis. I have a 2.5k inverter/charger I would love to 
get rid of. It's big and I don't like the way it's wired into my boat. I had a 
fault while out cruising earlier
 this month, that rendered the whole unit us less. Except for ballast. Luckily 
I was able to reset the fault. 


 


 


 


Doug Mountjoy 

Sv Rebecca Leah 


C&C LF39


Port Orchard YC wa.



 



 Original message 


From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 



Date: 9/24/19 12:40 (GMT-08:00) 



To: CnClist 



Cc: "Dennis C." 



Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters



 




Chuck,


 


Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like 
them.  Others may disagree.


 


If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate charger 
and a separate inverter.


 


Dennis C.


Touche' 35-1 #83


Mandeville, LA

 


 




Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.
Chuck Gilchrest
 






___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

The big charger-inverters are complicated beasts. I sold and installed a lot of 
them back in the day.
I have a ProNautic 15 amp charger, a separate 300 watt inverter, and a separate 
1200 watt inverter. Either one can drive the cabin outlets depending on a 
switch. The 300 watt unit is silent and draws very little in standby. It gets 
used most of the time, but if I need a big tool or the hairdryer we fire up the 
1200 watt inverter. It has a fan you can hear, so we don’t use it when we don’t 
need to.
All 3 together are less than a big inverter/charger.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of sv Rebecca 
Leah via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 7:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: sv Rebecca Leah 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

I have to agree with you Dennis. I have a 2.5k inverter/charger I would love to 
get rid of. It's big and I don't like the way it's wired into my boat. I had a 
fault while out cruising earlier this month, that rendered the whole unit us 
less. Except for ballast. Luckily I was able to reset the fault.



Doug Mountjoy
Sv Rebecca Leah
C&C LF39
Port Orchard YC wa.

 Original message 
From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Date: 9/24/19 12:40 (GMT-08:00)
To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

Chuck,

Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like 
them.  Others may disagree.

If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate charger 
and a separate inverter.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.
Chuck Gilchrest

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[sv Rebecca Leah via CnC-List]

I have to agree with you Dennis. I have a 2.5k inverter/charger I would love to 
get rid of. It's big and I don't like the way it's wired into my boat. I had a 
fault while out cruising earlier this month, that rendered the whole unit us 
less. Except for ballast. Luckily I was able to reset the fault. Doug Mountjoy 
Sv Rebecca Leah C&C LF39Port Orchard YC wa.
 Original message From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
 Date: 9/24/19  12:40  (GMT-08:00) To: CnClist 
 Cc: "Dennis C."  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters Chuck,Just a philosophical 
comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like them.  Others may 
disagree.If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate 
charger and a separate inverter.Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LAAny 
suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.Chuck Gilchrest

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all, 

For years on our C&C 27 MKIII we used a 40 watt or so solar panel with a charge 
controller, and the panel mounted on our sliding hatch to charge our batteries 
(a series 24 and 27) on the mooring.  We used a battery combiner to keep the 
starting and house battery charged.  

We also had a small inverter that would have been sufficient to power a 
coffeemaker, but we used it for a flat panel TV.  Overall, it worked well, and 
we never had concerns about our batteries being charged.  The new owner has 
kept the batteries in the boat over the winter, getting topped off by the solar 
panel.  

It has been an inexpensive, elegant solution that worked well for us.  

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
 

  
 ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Thanks Dennis.
I also wonder if a dedicated inverter may absorb less battery power in the 
conversion process than a multi-function inverter/charger.  I guess ultimately 
it’s a matter of getting the right one to suit one’s needs.  I rarely have 
access to shore power except when the boat is on the hard but would enjoy using 
that juice to top off the battery banks when my solar panels come down and the 
shrink wrap goes on.
Chuck Gilchrest 
S/V Half Magic 
1983 35 Landfall 
Padanaram MA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2019, at 3:40 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like 
> them.  Others may disagree.
> 
> If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate charger 
> and a separate inverter.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
>> Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Chuck Gilchrest
>> 
>> 
>> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Chuck,

Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like
them.  Others may disagree.

If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate
charger and a separate inverter.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.
>
> Chuck Gilchrest
>
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

I have a similar set up with 2 semi-flexible 100w panels installed on my
bimini.  We were able to stitch Velcro around the perimeter of the panels
with the nap side facing up.  Then we stitched "fold over" tabs with the
hook Velcro facing down on the bimini so one could lay the panels directly
atop the bimini and secure the panels with the coordinating Velcro tabs.
The tabs run the entire length of the panels, both fore and aft and
athwartships providing a secure installation that resists wind from getting
underneath the panels.  This installation allows me to remove both panels
and canvas in the event of storms or bad weather.  I only have the panels
hooked up to the house bank of batteries (2 wet cell group 31) and rely on
the alternator to keep the starting battery (group 27) charged, although I
can combine battery banks to start the diesel if the starter battery gets
low.  Our boat lives on a mooring.

Contemplating buying a combination battery charger/inverter this winter to
replace the Promariner Protech 1240 charger that died last summer.
Promariner no longer has replacement parts for the existing charger although
I suspect a knowledgeable electronics guy could likely find a bad diode or
capacitor and make an easy repair. maybe.   My wife enjoys using her Keurig
onboard and the toaster/oven is about a 1200w draw.  I would love to not
need to haul around the portable 2000w Honda Generator which I'm sure makes
no friends in the morning in a quiet harbor..

Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Andrew Walther
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 12:46 PM
To: Len Mitchell ; CNC List 
Cc: Andrew Walther 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels

 

Thanks Len - I've seen up to about 180 watts but only really clear day when
sun was directly overhead.  It's surprising though with cloud cover I have
also seen 70-80 watts.  We don't have hug loads the fridge being the main
one.  We were away for a month this year and had several 2-3 day anchorages
where we never had to run the engine - very pleased with the whole thing.

 

If anybody is interested this is what we installed...

 

2 x 100 Watt Panels
<https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B079CH7VYD/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_vtKIDbKWTXTDP> 

 

MPPT Controller
<https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B06ZZRSDB8/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_mvKIDbCA9456P> 

 

Reasonably easy install also.

 

Andy

 

 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Andrew Walther via CnC-List]

Thanks Len - I've seen up to about 180 watts but only really clear day when sun 
was directly overhead.  It's surprising though with cloud cover I have also 
seen 70-80 watts.  We don't have hug loads the fridge being the main one.  We 
were away for a month this year and had several 2-3 day anchorages where we 
never had to run the engine - very pleased with the whole thing.



If anybody is interested this is what we installed...



2 x 100 Watt 
Panels



MPPT 
Controller



Reasonably easy install also.



Andy







-Original Message-
From: Len Mitchell 
Sent: September 23, 2019 8:09 PM
To: CNC List 
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels



Nice install Andy! That looks really well done. Curious how many amps you are 
getting in full sun. Len





Sent from my iPad


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Don,

Welcome to the Beta family — love the engine. 

As a former C&C 34 (Enterprise NCC-1701-A) owner, I think your best bet is some 
kind of solar panel rail mount on your stern pulpit. 

Something like this: 
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62567&d=1371267553
 

 or http://www.cbcamerica.com/microsite/misc/image/Installations/Tilt-Mount.png 
 

One the stern rail, you’ll have less issues with shadows from the boom or other 
objects on board. Once there’s a shadow on your solar panels, their efficiency 
drops drastically. 

As others mentioned, the key is more batteries, meaning more amp hours of 
storage. But, I know space is limited on a 34. I’ve seen people add a shelf n 
the engine access locker on the starboard side and put a few batteries there, 
but maybe you did that already when you added the fridge. 

We installed a new fridge on this Enterprise about two months ago — at normal 
running, it will draw about 2 amps. When working to make the box cooler, it 
kicks up to almost 7 amps. When my house batteries (four Trojan flooded gold 
cart 6Vs in parallel and in series) are at 100%, according to my Blue Sea 
batteries monitoring system, it looks like I can go for a few days before they 
reach 50% and the alarm goes off — not that I’ve tried it — yet.  My little 
flexible 50W panel on my companionway hatch does a great job of keeping things 
topped off when I’m not on board.

On a sad note — the wife and I brought the Enterprise to the yard yesterday and 
winterized the systems. She gets hauled in the next day or two, ending the 2018 
season. Fingers crossed for a warm Spring and a great 2019. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 






On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:42 PM, DON JONSSON via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi All

Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110 amp) 
we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that power, a 
fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went through two 
alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't bode well.  We 
did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the warranty.  Guess that was 
a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through the boat and all wiring is good. 
 They claim manufacturing default in both alternators.   Hmmm.)

The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with no 
stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know it 
takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.

1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few more 
old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You can get 
replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars to $15.   I 
read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage very well and you 
should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and recommendations.

2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they really 
help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all locations come 
with a compromise.   We are considering:

A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially 
since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that we 
put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC coast and 
blocking the sun is mandatory.

B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the sunshine 
issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on you.  A Bimini 
with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.  Also it isn't cheap.

C: Hang them off the life lines or rails at the back of the boat with a support 
that allows you to set them flat when at anchor.  But we occasionally carry 
bikes back there and we couldn't have both at the same time.  Also looks a 
little clunky.

D:  Leave them as portable and set them out when at anchor.  But then it is a 
pain and you don't do it unless you are sitting for a while and you have all 
the wire to deal with, etc.  And they aren't helping much under sail.

So does anyone have a recommendation as to what they have done and how it 
works.  Also how many amp hours did you get on a sunny day?  What size of 
panels did you use.

I know, that like everything on a boat it is always a compromise, we are just 
trying to figure out which one to make.

Thanks for any help.

Don Jonsson
Andante, C&C 34
Victoria, BC


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

You might also check to see if you are getting the correct voltage and max
amps from the alternator.  Keep in mind that a standard lead acid battery
should not be charged at a rate greater than 20% of its capacity.  With a
200 Ah bank you are limited to 40 amps.  Stock regulators built into the
alternators will often limit the output voltage to 14.4v but a proper
voltage for a lead acid is 14.7.  Just a couple things to consider.  If you
switched to AGM the rate jumps to 50% of capacity - 100amps...but the max
output should be lowered to 14.6 volts.

Since you've spent so much time studying the battery monitor, are you
getting 80%?  This is indicated by the battery volts at max - 14.4v for
stock, 14.7v for smart.  When running on battery 12.7 is "full", 11.6v is
50% - where you should consider minimum.  10.5v is dead - 0%.  If you can
keep it above 11.6v you're doing fine.  You shouldn't focus on getting
100%.  80% is to efficient goal.

As for insulating the fridge.  Consider freezing a gallon of milk or water
before your trip to help keep things cool.  Additionally, a tiny fan can do
wonders for keeping the air circulated and cool.  Great stuff spray foam
can do wonders for insulation.  Also google stainless lobster for a fridge
controller.

11 days till the first annual Mid-Atlantic C&C Rendezvous.
https://www.facebook.com/2018MACCR/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 14, 2018 12:05 PM, "DON JONSSON via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Thanks for the comment.  We added a battery, but that was battery number 4
with 3 house and one starter now.  But they are lead acid batteries and
will only take so much charge.  (Perhaps we should switch to AGM's with
thin plates, but that is another issue.)  Our alternator is likely bigger
than what we need but when putting in a new motor it is much cheaper than
replacing one later.  Our fridge uses about 5 amps when running but it only
runs about 1/2 the time, so we use between 50 and 60 amp hours per day on a
warm summer day.  We looked at adding insulation to the fridge but that is
no trivial task on the boat unless you add it on the inside taking up
room.  We did add insulation inside to the top.

The more we run the batteries down the longer the regulator will hold the
charge up but ultimately without a smart regulator it still kicks down too
soon and it takes a fair while to replace the amp hours you have used.  And
we are very reluctant to void our warranty by putting in a smart regulator.
  So this summer I was often running the motor while sailing, running the
motor at anchor, and spending too much time watching the battery monitor
trying to minimize the drain.  Also we would stay at marinas periodically
just so we could plug in and get the batteries truly back up to 100%.  I
was too envious of friends on a power boat with solar panels who had all
the power they needed.  But on a power boat it is much easier to find a
place to put large panels.

So I can go three days without charging but then I need to run the motor
for hours to get the batteries back up.

So really hoping that solar panels will change the current operating
procedure.  Even if we still had to run the motor for a while to really
drive the charge in and then used the panels to top up, it would be an
advantage.  Just where to put the things.

Thanks
Don



Sent from my iPad

On Oct 13, 2018, at 11:09 PM, Fred Hazzard  wrote:

Don,  it seems to me you need more battery power. You have adequate
charging, but with only 2 batteries with about 200 ah capacity,  you have
100 ah of usable power. Your fridge probably uses about 5 amps per hour or
120 amp hours per day. That alone exceeds what you should use. Not to
mention leaving something to start you engine.
On our boat we have 4 batteries with over 400 ah. Even with this we need to
charge every 3 days.

The other thing you should look at is the insulation of your fridge. It can
make a big difference.

Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44
Portland Or

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 4:27 PM Dave via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Interesting - have been contemplating exactly this for Windstar - 33-2,
> and  my needs and equipment are  similar for contemplated summer cruising
> in Georgian bay.
>
> I have a Bimini and can barely fit 200w (iirc) of solar panel on the
> Bimini, which is the bare minimum required to keep my house battery whole.
>   (I could be misremembering the wattage)  Mounting the flexible panels
> will take some thought.   I don’t want to bother with set up and take down
> panels
>
> I have converted to LED lighting - a big difference in power consumption
> and have used a variety of light sources, including some inexpensive
> halogen replacement bulbs from amazon and some dome lights from princess
> auto.   Am very happy with both despite the low cost.
>
> IMHO Biggest remaining issue is the fridge - it needs to be better sealed
> and better insulated is to reduce the amp-hour draw.  This will take some
> thought and is a project for the winte

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[DON JONSSON via CnC-List]

Thanks for the comment.  We added a battery, but that was battery number 4 with 
3 house and one starter now.  But they are lead acid batteries and will only 
take so much charge.  (Perhaps we should switch to AGM's with thin plates, but 
that is another issue.)  Our alternator is likely bigger than what we need but 
when putting in a new motor it is much cheaper than replacing one later.  Our 
fridge uses about 5 amps when running but it only runs about 1/2 the time, so 
we use between 50 and 60 amp hours per day on a warm summer day.  We looked at 
adding insulation to the fridge but that is no trivial task on the boat unless 
you add it on the inside taking up room.  We did add insulation inside to the 
top.

The more we run the batteries down the longer the regulator will hold the 
charge up but ultimately without a smart regulator it still kicks down too soon 
and it takes a fair while to replace the amp hours you have used.  And we are 
very reluctant to void our warranty by putting in a smart regulator.   So this 
summer I was often running the motor while sailing, running the motor at 
anchor, and spending too much time watching the battery monitor trying to 
minimize the drain.  Also we would stay at marinas periodically just so we 
could plug in and get the batteries truly back up to 100%.  I was too envious 
of friends on a power boat with solar panels who had all the power they needed. 
 But on a power boat it is much easier to find a place to put large panels.

So I can go three days without charging but then I need to run the motor for 
hours to get the batteries back up.

So really hoping that solar panels will change the current operating procedure. 
 Even if we still had to run the motor for a while to really drive the charge 
in and then used the panels to top up, it would be an advantage.  Just where to 
put the things.

Thanks
Don



Sent from my iPad

On Oct 13, 2018, at 11:09 PM, Fred Hazzard  wrote:

Don,  it seems to me you need more battery power. You have adequate charging, 
but with only 2 batteries with about 200 ah capacity,  you have 100 ah of 
usable power. Your fridge probably uses about 5 amps per hour or 120 amp hours 
per day. That alone exceeds what you should use. Not to mention leaving 
something to start you engine. 
On our boat we have 4 batteries with over 400 ah. Even with this we need to 
charge every 3 days. 

The other thing you should look at is the insulation of your fridge. It can 
make a big difference. 

Fred Hazzard 
S/V Fury 
C&C 44
Portland Or 

> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 4:27 PM Dave via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> Interesting - have been contemplating exactly this for Windstar - 33-2, and  
> my needs and equipment are  similar for contemplated summer cruising in 
> Georgian bay.
> 
> I have a Bimini and can barely fit 200w (iirc) of solar panel on the Bimini, 
> which is the bare minimum required to keep my house battery whole.   (I could 
> be misremembering the wattage)  Mounting the flexible panels will take some 
> thought.   I don’t want to bother with set up and take down panels
> 
> I have converted to LED lighting - a big difference in power consumption and 
> have used a variety of light sources, including some inexpensive halogen 
> replacement bulbs from amazon and some dome lights from princess auto.   Am 
> very happy with both despite the low cost.
> 
> IMHO Biggest remaining issue is the fridge - it needs to be better sealed and 
> better insulated is to reduce the amp-hour draw.  This will take some thought 
> and is a project for the winter.   
> 
> Am a bit behind on blog updates but will catch up over the next week or so.
> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2015/12/hello-all-this-blog-is-intended-to.html
> 
> Am interested in the evolution of your plans!
> 
> Dave 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:42 PM, DON JONSSON  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All
>> 
>> Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110 
>> amp) we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that 
>> power, a fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went 
>> through two alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't 
>> bode well.  We did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the 
>> warranty.  Guess that was a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through the 
>> boat and all wiring is good.  They claim manufacturing default in both 
>> alternators.   Hmmm.)
>> 
>> The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with no 
>> stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know it 
>> takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.
>> 
>> 1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few 
>> more old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You 
>> can get replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars 
>> to $15.   I read that cheaper ones don't 

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi don, 
I've been reading about solar for a couple of years and the general consensus 
seems to be that flexible panels only last a couple of years and rigid panels 
are a much better decision financially.  The more efficient the panel, the more 
they cost.  They generally run from about 17% to 21%.  And the cost can be 
almost double from the lowest to the highest efficiency.  
The bimini seems to be the best location, for a mono hull, if it gets them out 
from under the boom.  Without a bimini the rear rail is a good second choice 
but, the lower the panel the more changes of shading them.  There are plenty of 
videos demonstrating the shading issues.  
Putting rigid panels on the bimini presents structural concerns.  I put mine up 
on the existing frame and it was not stable.  I'm going to go with a new custom 
frame and fabric to help with that.  I got 2 200w panels because I wanted to 
run the fridge and install my auto pilot and keep the batteries topped up 
without having to run the engine.  I don't think the little generator is a good 
option for us.  
If you were to install on a Dodger you'd have to install 2 panels,  in series, 
in hopes that when the boom was shading one you still get the power from the 
other.  Basically,  having 2 panels and hope that at least one is not being 
shaded most of the time.  
I don't know if you're on Facebook but there's a pretty good group there called 
'solar on a boat' the discussions have helped me. 


Thanks, Danny
 Original message From: DON JONSSON via CnC-List 
 Date: 10/13/18  1:42 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: DON JONSSON  Subject: Stus-List 
Solar panels and LED light bulbs. 
Hi All

Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110 amp) 
we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that power, a 
fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went through two 
alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't bode well.  We 
did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the warranty.  Guess that was 
a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through the boat and all wiring is good. 
 They claim manufacturing default in both alternators.   Hmmm.)

The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with no 
stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know it 
takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.

1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few more 
old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You can get 
replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars to $15.   I 
read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage very well and you 
should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and recommendations.

2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they really 
help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all locations come 
with a compromise.   We are considering:

A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially 
since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that we 
put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC coast and 
blocking the sun is mandatory.

B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the sunshine 
issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on you.  A Bimini 
with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.  Also it isn't cheap.

C: Hang them off the life lines or rails at the back of the boat with a support 
that allows you to set them flat when at anchor.  But we occasionally carry 
bikes back there and we couldn't have both at the same time.  Also looks a 
little clunky.

D:  Leave them as portable and set them out when at anchor.  But then it is a 
pain and you don't do it unless you are sitting for a while and you have all 
the wire to deal with, etc.  And they aren't helping much under sail.

So does anyone have a recommendation as to what they have done and how it 
works.  Also how many amp hours did you get on a sunny day?  What size of 
panels did you use.

I know, that like everything on a boat it is always a compromise, we are just 
trying to figure out which one to make.

Thanks for any help.

Don Jonsson
Andante, C&C 34
Victoria, BC


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Fred/Don my novacool uses 4.2a when running.So, the duty cycle is key - 
hence insulation and lid-seals.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2018, at 2:09 AM, Fred Hazzard  wrote:
> 
> Don,  it seems to me you need more battery power. You have adequate charging, 
> but with only 2 batteries with about 200 ah capacity,  you have 100 ah of 
> usable power. Your fridge probably uses about 5 amps per hour or 120 amp 
> hours per day. That alone exceeds what you should use. Not to mention leaving 
> something to start you engine. 
> On our boat we have 4 batteries with over 400 ah. Even with this we need to 
> charge every 3 days. 
> 
> The other thing you should look at is the insulation of your fridge. It can 
> make a big difference. 
> 
> Fred Hazzard 
> S/V Fury 
> C&C 44
> Portland Or 
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 4:27 PM Dave via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> Interesting - have been contemplating exactly this for Windstar - 33-2, and  
>> my needs and equipment are  similar for contemplated summer cruising in 
>> Georgian bay.
>> 
>> I have a Bimini and can barely fit 200w (iirc) of solar panel on the Bimini, 
>> which is the bare minimum required to keep my house battery whole.   (I 
>> could be misremembering the wattage)  Mounting the flexible panels will take 
>> some thought.   I don’t want to bother with set up and take down panels
>> 
>> I have converted to LED lighting - a big difference in power consumption and 
>> have used a variety of light sources, including some inexpensive halogen 
>> replacement bulbs from amazon and some dome lights from princess auto.   Am 
>> very happy with both despite the low cost.
>> 
>> IMHO Biggest remaining issue is the fridge - it needs to be better sealed 
>> and better insulated is to reduce the amp-hour draw.  This will take some 
>> thought and is a project for the winter.   
>> 
>> Am a bit behind on blog updates but will catch up over the next week or so.
>> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2015/12/hello-all-this-blog-is-intended-to.html
>> 
>> Am interested in the evolution of your plans!
>> 
>> Dave 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:42 PM, DON JONSSON  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All
>>> 
>>> Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110 
>>> amp) we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that 
>>> power, a fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went 
>>> through two alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't 
>>> bode well.  We did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the 
>>> warranty.  Guess that was a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through 
>>> the boat and all wiring is good.  They claim manufacturing default in both 
>>> alternators.   Hmmm.)
>>> 
>>> The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with no 
>>> stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know it 
>>> takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.
>>> 
>>> 1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few 
>>> more old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You 
>>> can get replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars 
>>> to $15.   I read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage 
>>> very well and you should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and 
>>> recommendations.
>>> 
>>> 2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they 
>>> really help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all 
>>> locations come with a compromise.   We are considering:
>>> 
>>> A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially 
>>> since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that 
>>> we put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC 
>>> coast and blocking the sun is mandatory.
>>> 
>>> B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the 
>>> sunshine issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on 
>>> you.  A Bimini with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.  
>>> Also it isn't cheap.
>>> 
>>> C: Hang them off the life lines or rails at the back of the boat with a 
>>> support that allows you to set them flat when at anchor.  But we 
>>> occasionally carry bikes back there and we couldn't have both at the same 
>>> time.  Also looks a little clunky.
>>> 
>>> D:  Leave them as portable and set them out when at anchor.  But then it is 
>>> a pain and you don't do it unless you are sitting for a while and you have 
>>> all the wire to deal with, etc.  And they aren't helping much under sail.
>>> 
>>> So does anyone have a recommendation as to what they have done and how it 
>>> works.  Also how many amp hours did you get on a sunny day?  What size of 
>>> panels did you use.
>>> 
>>> I know, that like everything on a boat it is always a compromise, we are 
>>>

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Marek - you nailed it.  On my 33-2 the semi flexible panel area needed is 
slightly larger than the Bimini and the Bimini is bisected by the backstay, 
which really compounds the  complexity. I think it can be done but ... Still 
noodling.  And thanks for confirming the 200w requirement.

Agreed on LED- bought replacement ‘bulbs’ on amazon - very inexpensive and they 
work well.   Main caution is colour temperature.  12v lamps are (and always 
have been) generally automotive items and are not always suited for living 
spaces.   2700k or lower works IMO.

These worked well in my ‘eyeball’ reading lights.  Not perfect per the 
paragraph that follows but very good for the application.

https://www.amazon.ca/your-orders/pop/ref=oh_aui_i_d_old_o3?_encoding=UTF8&gen=canonical&lineItemId=kgjhsqlnpjmnwny&orderId=702-1300913-5706641&packageId=1&returnSummaryId=&returnUnitIndices=&shipmentId=Dc6qyp2dk


For the regular square dome lights I replaced the fixture with Chip-on-board 
LED fixtures.   The distribution of light from an automotive tail light bulb is 
not well suited to task lighting or area lighting in a boat, and the crappy 
stock fixtures made that even worse.  A led replacement bulb mimics the 360 
degree (ish) distribution of a glowing wire, and wastes much of the light.  
(Kind of a ‘faster horses’ thing)  with led fixtures you have the opportunity 
to aim the light sources directly at the area to be illuminated. (‘Chips on the 
circuit board, with little need for reflectors or other optics to better 
distribute the light.   Inherently more efficient.  
Stopping   now to avoid even more lighting geekery. 

Dave 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 10:47 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
> 
> I can't help you with the alternator issues.
> 
> Regarding LED replacement bulbs, they don't have to be expensive to be good. 
> But you have to do some searching around. Since you are on this side of the 
> border, you may like to check the marineledscanada.ca. I had good success 
> with his solutions (they do work and they were competitively priced, 
> especially compared to some US prices). A caveat: I am not sure if he is 
> still in business. 
> 
> Regardless where you get them from, do it. The current draw is so much lower 
> that you would never look back.
> 
> The fully flexible solar panels might be too big for what you need. I have a 
> 24 W panel that I carry on the bimini and it is 35 cm x 200 cm. It is almost 
> as long as it can be without dropping on either side. The nice thing is that 
> I can leave it on the bimini, when I fold it down and it can stay there. It 
> is not the best way to do it, but it does work when you want to do it 
> quickly. However, this would not help you at all, because you need about 200 
> W for the fridge.
> 
> The semi-flexible panels have higher wattage, but are much less flexible and 
> you would have to take them down.
> 
> Marek
> 
> 1994 C270 "Legato"
> Ottawa, ON
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of DON JONSSON via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 13:42
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: DON JONSSON 
> Subject: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.
> 
> Hi All
> 
> Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110 
> amp) we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that 
> power, a fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went 
> through two alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't 
> bode well.  We did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the 
> warranty.  Guess that was a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through the 
> boat and all wiring is good.  They claim manufacturing default in both 
> alternators.   Hmmm.)
> 
> The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with no 
> stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know it 
> takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.
> 
> 1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few 
> more old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You 
> can get replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars to 
> $15.   I read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage very 
> well and you should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and 
> recommendations.
> 
> 2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they really 
> help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all locations 
> come with a compromise.   We are considering:
> 
> A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially 
> since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that 
> we put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC coast 
> and blocking the sun is mandatory.
> 
> B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the sunshine 
> is

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I agree with Fred's assessment.  I have about 400AH on my primary bank and
200AH on my secondary.  We motor in and out of the slip and on and off of
the anchor each day.  It takes about 30 minutes minimum each time for a
total of 60 minutes per day.  With a 100 amp alternator I can pretty much
keep the battery in the bulk charge zone between 50 and 80%.  If we get a
day in port with shore power or a day with no wind where we are motoring
more than 30 minutes then I know that we are charging past 80% into the
absorption phase.  This has worked sufficiently for us to sail up and down
the bay for 2 weeks at a time.

I have installed a 200w solar system.  I get 12 amps during peek sun and it
continues to charge well into the late afternoon.  It helps offset
electricitcal usage but it still won't keep up under all conditions.  You
can see pictures at the link below.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yLXU5RzRyWjZXTDA

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Sun, Oct 14, 2018, 2:10 AM Fred Hazzard via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Don,  it seems to me you need more battery power. You have adequate
> charging, but with only 2 batteries with about 200 ah capacity,  you have
> 100 ah of usable power. Your fridge probably uses about 5 amps per hour or
> 120 amp hours per day. That alone exceeds what you should use. Not to
> mention leaving something to start you engine.
> On our boat we have 4 batteries with over 400 ah. Even with this we need
> to charge every 3 days.
>
> The other thing you should look at is the insulation of your fridge. It
> can make a big difference.
>
> Fred Hazzard
> S/V Fury
> C&C 44
> Portland Or
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 4:27 PM Dave via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>> Interesting - have been contemplating exactly this for Windstar - 33-2,
>> and  my needs and equipment are  similar for contemplated summer cruising
>> in Georgian bay.
>>
>> I have a Bimini and can barely fit 200w (iirc) of solar panel on the
>> Bimini, which is the bare minimum required to keep my house battery whole.
>>   (I could be misremembering the wattage)  Mounting the flexible panels
>> will take some thought.   I don’t want to bother with set up and take down
>> panels
>>
>> I have converted to LED lighting - a big difference in power consumption
>> and have used a variety of light sources, including some inexpensive
>> halogen replacement bulbs from amazon and some dome lights from princess
>> auto.   Am very happy with both despite the low cost.
>>
>> IMHO Biggest remaining issue is the fridge - it needs to be better sealed
>> and better insulated is to reduce the amp-hour draw.  This will take some
>> thought and is a project for the winter.
>>
>> Am a bit behind on blog updates but will catch up over the next week or
>> so.
>>
>> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2015/12/hello-all-this-blog-is-intended-to.html
>>
>> Am interested in the evolution of your plans!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:42 PM, DON JONSSON  wrote:
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>> Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator
>> (110 amp) we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all
>> that power, a fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we
>> went through two alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.
>> Doesn't bode well.  We did not put in a smart regulator as it would void
>> the warranty.  Guess that was a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone
>> through the boat and all wiring is good.  They claim manufacturing default
>> in both alternators.   Hmmm.)
>>
>> The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with
>> no stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know
>> it takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.
>>
>> 1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a
>> few more old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.
>> You can get replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of
>> dollars to $15.   I read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in
>> voltage very well and you should spend more money.  Does anyone have
>> experience and recommendations.
>>
>> 2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they
>> really help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all
>> locations come with a compromise.   We are considering:
>>
>> A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.
>> Especially since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our
>> awning that we put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up
>> on the BC coast and blocking the sun is mandatory.
>>
>> B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the
>> sunshine issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on
>> you.  A Bimini with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.
>> Also 

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Fred Hazzard via CnC-List]

Don,  it seems to me you need more battery power. You have adequate
charging, but with only 2 batteries with about 200 ah capacity,  you have
100 ah of usable power. Your fridge probably uses about 5 amps per hour or
120 amp hours per day. That alone exceeds what you should use. Not to
mention leaving something to start you engine.
On our boat we have 4 batteries with over 400 ah. Even with this we need to
charge every 3 days.

The other thing you should look at is the insulation of your fridge. It can
make a big difference.

Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44
Portland Or

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 4:27 PM Dave via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Interesting - have been contemplating exactly this for Windstar - 33-2,
> and  my needs and equipment are  similar for contemplated summer cruising
> in Georgian bay.
>
> I have a Bimini and can barely fit 200w (iirc) of solar panel on the
> Bimini, which is the bare minimum required to keep my house battery whole.
>   (I could be misremembering the wattage)  Mounting the flexible panels
> will take some thought.   I don’t want to bother with set up and take down
> panels
>
> I have converted to LED lighting - a big difference in power consumption
> and have used a variety of light sources, including some inexpensive
> halogen replacement bulbs from amazon and some dome lights from princess
> auto.   Am very happy with both despite the low cost.
>
> IMHO Biggest remaining issue is the fridge - it needs to be better sealed
> and better insulated is to reduce the amp-hour draw.  This will take some
> thought and is a project for the winter.
>
> Am a bit behind on blog updates but will catch up over the next week or so.
>
> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2015/12/hello-all-this-blog-is-intended-to.html
>
> Am interested in the evolution of your plans!
>
> Dave
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:42 PM, DON JONSSON  wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110
> amp) we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that
> power, a fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went
> through two alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't
> bode well.  We did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the
> warranty.  Guess that was a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through
> the boat and all wiring is good.  They claim manufacturing default in both
> alternators.   Hmmm.)
>
> The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with
> no stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know
> it takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.
>
> 1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few
> more old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You
> can get replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars
> to $15.   I read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage
> very well and you should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and
> recommendations.
>
> 2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they
> really help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all
> locations come with a compromise.   We are considering:
>
> A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially
> since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that
> we put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC
> coast and blocking the sun is mandatory.
>
> B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the
> sunshine issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on
> you.  A Bimini with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.
> Also it isn't cheap.
>
> C: Hang them off the life lines or rails at the back of the boat with a
> support that allows you to set them flat when at anchor.  But we
> occasionally carry bikes back there and we couldn't have both at the same
> time.  Also looks a little clunky.
>
> D:  Leave them as portable and set them out when at anchor.  But then it
> is a pain and you don't do it unless you are sitting for a while and you
> have all the wire to deal with, etc.  And they aren't helping much under
> sail.
>
> So does anyone have a recommendation as to what they have done and how it
> works.  Also how many amp hours did you get on a sunny day?  What size of
> panels did you use.
>
> I know, that like everything on a boat it is always a compromise, we are
> just trying to figure out which one to make.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Don Jonsson
> Andante, C&C 34
> Victoria, BC
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

I can't help you with the alternator issues.

Regarding LED replacement bulbs, they don't have to be expensive to be good. 
But you have to do some searching around. Since you are on this side of the 
border, you may like to check the marineledscanada.ca. I had good success with 
his solutions (they do work and they were competitively priced, especially 
compared to some US prices). A caveat: I am not sure if he is still in 
business. 

Regardless where you get them from, do it. The current draw is so much lower 
that you would never look back.

The fully flexible solar panels might be too big for what you need. I have a 24 
W panel that I carry on the bimini and it is 35 cm x 200 cm. It is almost as 
long as it can be without dropping on either side. The nice thing is that I can 
leave it on the bimini, when I fold it down and it can stay there. It is not 
the best way to do it, but it does work when you want to do it quickly. 
However, this would not help you at all, because you need about 200 W for the 
fridge.

The semi-flexible panels have higher wattage, but are much less flexible and 
you would have to take them down.

Marek

1994 C270 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of DON JONSSON via 
CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 13:42
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: DON JONSSON 
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

Hi All

Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110 amp) 
we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that power, a 
fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went through two 
alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't bode well.  We 
did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the warranty.  Guess that was 
a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through the boat and all wiring is good. 
 They claim manufacturing default in both alternators.   Hmmm.)

The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with no 
stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know it 
takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.

1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few more 
old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You can get 
replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars to $15.   I 
read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage very well and you 
should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and recommendations.

2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they really 
help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all locations come 
with a compromise.   We are considering:

A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially 
since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that we 
put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC coast and 
blocking the sun is mandatory.

B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the sunshine 
issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on you.  A Bimini 
with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.  Also it isn't cheap.

C: Hang them off the life lines or rails at the back of the boat with a support 
that allows you to set them flat when at anchor.  But we occasionally carry 
bikes back there and we couldn't have both at the same time.  Also looks a 
little clunky.

D:  Leave them as portable and set them out when at anchor.  But then it is a 
pain and you don't do it unless you are sitting for a while and you have all 
the wire to deal with, etc.  And they aren't helping much under sail.

So does anyone have a recommendation as to what they have done and how it 
works.  Also how many amp hours did you get on a sunny day?  What size of 
panels did you use.

I know, that like everything on a boat it is always a compromise, we are just 
trying to figure out which one to make.

Thanks for any help.

Don Jonsson
Andante, C&C 34
Victoria, BC


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%2Fstumurray&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2a5a1bb3f224455b3d1f08d631334a4f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636750493685686221&sdata=dLdr9kNz%2Bz9iDFCJWy%2B3FqAXpRMoQErEQx30RNwODo4%3D&reserved=0


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[David via CnC-List]

Had a 80 amp Balmar for 12 years.  Buy their smart charger.  Flawless 
performance.

>From my Android


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 5:46:52 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

No help for you on the solar panels but the ONLY LED replacement bulbs or 
fixtures to buy are marinebeam.com<http://marinebeam.com>.

I've bought a couple of LED products from other suppliers.  I have replaced 
them with marinebeam products.

I have both entire fixtures and also replacement bulbs from them.  1st quality 
products.

Do it right the first time, go with marinebeam.com<http://marinebeam.com>.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 12:42 PM DON JONSSON via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hi All

Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110 amp) 
we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that power, a 
fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went through two 
alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't bode well.  We 
did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the warranty.  Guess that was 
a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through the boat and all wiring is good. 
 They claim manufacturing default in both alternators.   Hmmm.)

The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with no 
stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know it 
takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.

1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few more 
old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You can get 
replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars to $15.   I 
read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage very well and you 
should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and recommendations.

2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they really 
help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all locations come 
with a compromise.   We are considering:

A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially 
since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that we 
put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC coast and 
blocking the sun is mandatory.

B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the sunshine 
issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on you.  A Bimini 
with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.  Also it isn't cheap.

C: Hang them off the life lines or rails at the back of the boat with a support 
that allows you to set them flat when at anchor.  But we occasionally carry 
bikes back there and we couldn't have both at the same time.  Also looks a 
little clunky.

D:  Leave them as portable and set them out when at anchor.  But then it is a 
pain and you don't do it unless you are sitting for a while and you have all 
the wire to deal with, etc.  And they aren't helping much under sail.

So does anyone have a recommendation as to what they have done and how it 
works.  Also how many amp hours did you get on a sunny day?  What size of 
panels did you use.

I know, that like everything on a boat it is always a compromise, we are just 
trying to figure out which one to make.

Thanks for any help.

Don Jonsson
Andante, C&C 34
Victoria, BC


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Dave via CnC-List]

Interesting - have been contemplating exactly this for Windstar - 33-2, and  my 
needs and equipment are  similar for contemplated summer cruising in Georgian 
bay.

I have a Bimini and can barely fit 200w (iirc) of solar panel on the Bimini, 
which is the bare minimum required to keep my house battery whole.   (I could 
be misremembering the wattage)  Mounting the flexible panels will take some 
thought.   I don’t want to bother with set up and take down panels

I have converted to LED lighting - a big difference in power consumption and 
have used a variety of light sources, including some inexpensive halogen 
replacement bulbs from amazon and some dome lights from princess auto.   Am 
very happy with both despite the low cost.

IMHO Biggest remaining issue is the fridge - it needs to be better sealed and 
better insulated is to reduce the amp-hour draw.  This will take some thought 
and is a project for the winter.   

Am a bit behind on blog updates but will catch up over the next week or so.
http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2015/12/hello-all-this-blog-is-intended-to.html

Am interested in the evolution of your plans!

Dave 


Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:42 PM, DON JONSSON  wrote:
> 
> Hi All
> 
> Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110 
> amp) we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that 
> power, a fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went 
> through two alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't 
> bode well.  We did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the 
> warranty.  Guess that was a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through the 
> boat and all wiring is good.  They claim manufacturing default in both 
> alternators.   Hmmm.)
> 
> The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with no 
> stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know it 
> takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.
> 
> 1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few 
> more old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You 
> can get replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars to 
> $15.   I read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage very 
> well and you should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and 
> recommendations.
> 
> 2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they really 
> help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all locations 
> come with a compromise.   We are considering:
> 
> A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially 
> since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that 
> we put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC coast 
> and blocking the sun is mandatory.
> 
> B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the sunshine 
> issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on you.  A 
> Bimini with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.  Also it 
> isn't cheap.
> 
> C: Hang them off the life lines or rails at the back of the boat with a 
> support that allows you to set them flat when at anchor.  But we occasionally 
> carry bikes back there and we couldn't have both at the same time.  Also 
> looks a little clunky.
> 
> D:  Leave them as portable and set them out when at anchor.  But then it is a 
> pain and you don't do it unless you are sitting for a while and you have all 
> the wire to deal with, etc.  And they aren't helping much under sail.
> 
> So does anyone have a recommendation as to what they have done and how it 
> works.  Also how many amp hours did you get on a sunny day?  What size of 
> panels did you use.
> 
> I know, that like everything on a boat it is always a compromise, we are just 
> trying to figure out which one to make.
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> Don Jonsson
> Andante, C&C 34
> Victoria, BC
> 
> 
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and LED light bulbs.

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

No help for you on the solar panels but the ONLY LED replacement bulbs or
fixtures to buy are marinebeam.com.

I've bought a couple of LED products from other suppliers.  I have replaced
them with marinebeam products.

I have both entire fixtures and also replacement bulbs from them.  1st
quality products.

Do it right the first time, go with marinebeam.com.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 12:42 PM DON JONSSON via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi All
>
> Last year after putting in a new Beta engine with a larger alternator (110
> amp) we added an additional battery, a battery monitor, and to use all that
> power, a fridge.  (Of interest, and not the point of this email, is we went
> through two alternators on the boat last summer both on warranty.  Doesn't
> bode well.  We did not put in a smart regulator as it would void the
> warranty.  Guess that was a good thing.  Two mechanics have gone through
> the boat and all wiring is good.  They claim manufacturing default in both
> alternators.   Hmmm.)
>
> The fridge is a fantastic addition especially when you are up north with
> no stores to buy ice, or much food for that matter.   BUT, as you all know
> it takes a lot of power.  Which gets me to the questions.  Easy one first.
>
> 1.  We have added some new LED reading light fixtures but still have a few
> more old incandescent lights where we would like to keep the fixtures.  You
> can get replacement LED bulbs that range in price from a couple of dollars
> to $15.   I read that cheaper ones don't deal with variations in voltage
> very well and you should spend more money.  Does anyone have experience and
> recommendations.
>
> 2. The real solution, we think, is solar panels.  But how much do they
> really help and where to put them on a 34 foot sailboat.  It seems all
> locations come with a compromise.   We are considering:
>
> A: On top of the dodger, but the boom will always be an issue.  Especially
> since we don't have a bimini we use the boom for supporting our awning that
> we put up on hot sunny days.  Yes we occasionally get them up on the BC
> coast and blocking the sun is mandatory.
>
> B: Get a bimini and mount them on it.  But this gets us back to the
> sunshine issue.  Lots of days it isn't that warm and you want the sun on
> you.  A Bimini with solar panels is not that easy to fold out of the way.
> Also it isn't cheap.
>
> C: Hang them off the life lines or rails at the back of the boat with a
> support that allows you to set them flat when at anchor.  But we
> occasionally carry bikes back there and we couldn't have both at the same
> time.  Also looks a little clunky.
>
> D:  Leave them as portable and set them out when at anchor.  But then it
> is a pain and you don't do it unless you are sitting for a while and you
> have all the wire to deal with, etc.  And they aren't helping much under
> sail.
>
> So does anyone have a recommendation as to what they have done and how it
> works.  Also how many amp hours did you get on a sunny day?  What size of
> panels did you use.
>
> I know, that like everything on a boat it is always a compromise, we are
> just trying to figure out which one to make.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Don Jonsson
> Andante, C&C 34
> Victoria, BC
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

Lots of options and lots of info on google, you can even google "stus list:
solar panel" and find old list threads.
I did want to chime in and say that solar is the best. I am never plugged
into shore power unless we're cruising and spending a night at a marina and
that's more for the laptops, cameras, etc than it is for the boat. We don't
have a lot of demand (no fridge, AC, etc) so our little 65 watt panel does
us well. Consistently over 3 amps, 3.5 max, it's located on top of the
bimini. Two Trojan T-105s make up the storage. Setup serves well.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto


On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have very similar (consistent) results, even though I am much further
> north (45 °).
>
>
>
> I have a 24 W panel and I get a maximum charging current around 1.1 -1.3
> A. My maximum charge per day is much less, but my batteries are never that
> empty. I think that the maximum I ever saw was just under 10 Wh in a day.
> This is certainly enough to keep the batteries healthy.
>
>
>
> My solar panel is a flexible one that I put on the bimini. There is always
> some shading (a least, the backstay), so the efficinecy is not the best.
>
>
>
> This is with an older model of Morningstar, but it has a digital charge
> monitor, so it tells you what is (and was) going on with the solar charging.
>
>
>
> If you use refrigeration or generally, have big power budget and big
> batteries, you need much more solar power (150 W or more).
>
>
>
> Marek
>
> Ottawa, ON
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 14:02
> *To:* C&C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Solar panels
>
>
>
> Genasun is pretty much the agreed best engineered MPPT controller though
> they don't do higher current.  They have varying options for battery
> chemistry and wattage.  If genasun is what you use then you'll basically
> have to plan on one controller per panel which is great for reliability and
> redundancy but may not be so good on your pocket book.  They also don't
> have digital volt/amp/watt outputs so you'll probably want to look at
> getting one.  Genasun also offers a boost feature which allows a solar
> panel that outputs less than the battery voltage to charge the battery.
> Otherwise you'll have to ensure the panel voltage is greater than battery
> voltage and they won't start/stay charging in the morning or in the evening.
>
> Just to talk numbers for a minute.  My experience is that a 100 watt
> monocrystaline flexible panel mounted horizontally at a geographic latitude
> of 38° yields a max of 66 watts in the peek summer sun.  I get about 4 or 5
> amps peek charge current but only at peek sun.IIRC I get a cumulative
> ~900 watt-hours per day.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

I have very similar (consistent) results, even though I am much further north 
(45 °).

 

I have a 24 W panel and I get a maximum charging current around 1.1 -1.3 A. My 
maximum charge per day is much less, but my batteries are never that empty. I 
think that the maximum I ever saw was just under 10 Wh in a day. This is 
certainly enough to keep the batteries healthy.

 

My solar panel is a flexible one that I put on the bimini. There is always some 
shading (a least, the backstay), so the efficinecy is not the best.

 

This is with an older model of Morningstar, but it has a digital charge 
monitor, so it tells you what is (and was) going on with the solar charging.

 

If you use refrigeration or generally, have big power budget and big batteries, 
you need much more solar power (150 W or more).

 

Marek

Ottawa, ON

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 14:02
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels

 

Genasun is pretty much the agreed best engineered MPPT controller though they 
don't do higher current.  They have varying options for battery chemistry and 
wattage.  If genasun is what you use then you'll basically have to plan on one 
controller per panel which is great for reliability and redundancy but may not 
be so good on your pocket book.  They also don't have digital volt/amp/watt 
outputs so you'll probably want to look at getting one.  Genasun also offers a 
boost feature which allows a solar panel that outputs less than the battery 
voltage to charge the battery.  Otherwise you'll have to ensure the panel 
voltage is greater than battery voltage and they won't start/stay charging in 
the morning or in the evening.

Just to talk numbers for a minute.  My experience is that a 100 watt 
monocrystaline flexible panel mounted horizontally at a geographic latitude of 
38° yields a max of 66 watts in the peek summer sun.  I get about 4 or 5 amps 
peek charge current but only at peek sun.IIRC I get a cumulative ~900 
watt-hours per day.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Genasun is pretty much the agreed best engineered MPPT controller though
they don't do higher current.  They have varying options for battery
chemistry and wattage.  If genasun is what you use then you'll basically
have to plan on one controller per panel which is great for reliability and
redundancy but may not be so good on your pocket book.  They also don't
have digital volt/amp/watt outputs so you'll probably want to look at
getting one.  Genasun also offers a boost feature which allows a solar
panel that outputs less than the battery voltage to charge the battery.
Otherwise you'll have to ensure the panel voltage is greater than battery
voltage and they won't start/stay charging in the morning or in the evening.

Just to talk numbers for a minute.  My experience is that a 100 watt
monocrystaline flexible panel mounted horizontally at a geographic latitude
of 38° yields a max of 66 watts in the peek summer sun.  I get about 4 or 5
amps peek charge current but only at peek sun.IIRC I get a cumulative
~900 watt-hours per day.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Sep 17, 2016 5:15 AM, "detroito91 via CnC-List" 
wrote:


I feel this topic has been reviewed a while back.   I'm looking to purchase
150 watt panels and control unit. What do you feel would be the best system?
Requirements are minimal.
Thanks for your help.
Jim schwartz
SEA YA !
C&c 38 LF
Washington nc
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Doug Welch via CnC-List]

i have 2 100 watt semi flexible panels wired in series mounted on the bimini 
and an epsolar (30 watt) MPPT controller. I bought them as a package with wires 
and connectors from a local outfit called makeasolarboat.ca (that has since 
gotten out of the business). my wife sewed zippers on the panels and bimini to 
attach them. The package was $1,100 CAD including tax. I subsequently purchased 
the charge controller remote display and MC4 connector disconnect tool from 
amazon for another $60 CAD. I mounted the charge controller in a cockpit locker 
and it became  too annoying to open the locker and crane my head in to check 
the status. 
I am very pleased with the performance of the system, even on cloudy days. Over 
the winter my wife will be completing the the bimini attachments by sewing in 
velcro for the flaps to protect the zippers from UV and I will be adding a 
stainless tubing cross piece to support the bimini. The panels don't weigh much 
but they weigh enough create pockets for rain water to pool in. I will be 
buying a smaller panel to mount on the winter cover to keep the batteries 
topped up over the winter. 
I am very happy that I made the investment. Its great to sail  6 or 7 hour 
passages with the refrigeration, electronics and autopilt running and still 
have the batteries fully topped up. 
Hope this helps
Cheers,DougCeltic Knot33-2 

   

 On Saturday, September 17, 2016 12:12 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 

 #yiv7514399172 -- filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv7514399172 
filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7514399172 
p.yiv7514399172MsoNormal, #yiv7514399172 li.yiv7514399172MsoNormal, 
#yiv7514399172 div.yiv7514399172MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7514399172 a:link, 
#yiv7514399172 span.yiv7514399172MsoHyperlink 
{color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7514399172 a:visited, 
#yiv7514399172 span.yiv7514399172MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7514399172 
span.yiv7514399172EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7514399172 
.yiv7514399172MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv7514399172 filtered 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7514399172 div.yiv7514399172WordSection1 
{}#yiv7514399172 I am a big fan of Morningstar controllers and suggest going 
for MPPT. It will increase your charge rate by a lot.  Joe Della 
barba...@dellabarba.com  CoquinaC&C 35 MK I50 watt solar From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of detroito91 via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:15 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: detroito91 
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels    I feel this topic has been reviewed a while 
back.   I'm looking to purchase 150 watt panels and control unit. What do you 
feel would be the best system?Requirements are minimal.Thanks for your help. 
Jim schwartz SEA YA !C&c 38 LFWashington ncSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


   ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

I personally have a Morningstar controller, but I wanted two battery option (I 
don’t have an ACR).

If I were to do it again, I would go for a Genasun controller (they are very 
highly rated and recommended) and a separate ACR or something similar.

Marek

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: September 17, 2016 12:11
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Joe Della Barba<mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels

I am a big fan of Morningstar controllers and suggest going for MPPT. It will 
increase your charge rate by a lot.



Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com <mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>



Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

50 watt solar

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of detroito91 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:15 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: detroito91 
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels





I feel this topic has been reviewed a while back.   I'm looking to purchase 150 
watt panels and control unit. What do you feel would be the best system?

Requirements are minimal.

Thanks for your help.

Jim schwartz

SEA YA !

C&c 38 LF

Washington nc

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

I am a big fan of Morningstar controllers and suggest going for MPPT. It will 
increase your charge rate by a lot.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

 

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

50 watt solar 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of detroito91 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:15 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: detroito91 
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels

 

 

I feel this topic has been reviewed a while back.   I'm looking to purchase 150 
watt panels and control unit. What do you feel would be the best system?

Requirements are minimal.

Thanks for your help. 

Jim schwartz 

SEA YA !

C&c 38 LF

Washington nc

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[svpegasus38]

I just bought 2 140 watt glass Solara panels with 2 Gensun MPPT GV-10 
controllers, and a Solar Monitor Watt Wizard. Mounted the panels above the 
bimini lengthwise. Bought the system from BRJ Solutions in Seattle. I could not 
beat his prices in an internet search. On a sunny day my batteries are charged 
by 1pm, running my fridge and led lights. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 #4just west of Ballard, WA.




-- Original message--From: detroito91 via CnC-List Date: Fri, Sep 16, 
2016 20:15To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: detroito91;Subject:Stus-List Solar 
panels

I feel this topic has been reviewed a while back.   I'm looking to purchase 150 
watt panels and control unit. What do you feel would be the best 
system?Requirements are minimal.Thanks for your help. Jim schwartz SEA YA !C&c 
38 LFWashington ncSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

[Letsgo Sailing via CnC-List]

I used two Kyocera 130 watt PV panels. The Morning star controller gave me some 
problems every once in a while  would shut down and the batteries will 
discharge when I was away for few days. I never figured that out. 

 

Yanni

boatless in Ontario.

 

92 Lebaron 3.0 convertible

95 LeBaron 3.0 turbo convertible

07 Yamaha Straotoliner S

SCRC 011059

SRO 26-6483

 

TURBO!cause bottles are for babies and superchargers blow!!!

Which would you rather have, go fast goodies or shiny shoes?

Your feet may look good but if your engine blows you ain't going nowhere

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: October 14, 2014 8:27 AM
To: Josh Muckley; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Josh Muckley; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

 

You might be well advised to look at Sailboat Owners forum, where this has been 
discussed multiple times (e.g. here: 
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1149325 
<http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1149325&highlight=solar%20panel>
 &highlight=solar%20panel). Also, a good read here: 
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solar_panel.

 

There are various reports on using the cheap panels vs. the high quality 
expensive. Apparently, the expensive ones are most often produced in the same 
factory, on the same production line; however, they are thoroughly tested, so 
that all cells are working properly and produce equal amounts of energy. The 
cheap ones are the ones that did not make it through that QA.

 

Don’t skimp on controller(s). There are well documented reports showing that 
some can deliver substantially more energy (15% or even 20% more), which is 
especially important if you are using the solar panels to top up your batteries.

 

>From what I read, GenaSun controllers have the best opinion (price per 
>performance). Morning Star controllers (supposedly) are also quite good (this 
>is what I have).

 

Some controllers offer dual battery connection (with 50-50 or 90-10 split). If 
I were doing it again, I would install a simple controller (going to the house 
side) and an Echo Charger to charge the starting (spare) battery, as needed.

 

I don’t think you need a “dump load”, if you connect it directly to the 
batteries.

 

If you use multiple controllers, you will have some fun in controlling them, as 
they would see the wrong voltage on the battery (they would see the combined 
voltage of all controllers; rather than the battery itself). However, I don’t 
think you need any diodes, as they all have this protection built in (so the 
battery cannot feed the panel).

 

have fun

 

Marek

s/v “Legato”

in Ottawa

 

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>  

Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:43 AM

To: C <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> &C List 

Subject: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

 

Hey folks,

I'm looking to add solar panels to my boat.  I have a new hard top dodger that 
will be a great place to mount some flexible panels.  I realize that attention 
will have to be given to the boom so that it's shadow it minimized.  I've given 
consideration to the fact that some shadow is likely inevitable.  My 
understanding is that one large solar panel can have a substantial drop in it's 
output or be completely disabled if only a relatively small shadow is cast.  As 
such I am planning for 4 smaller 50w panels instead of 2 100w panels.  The idea 
being that a small shadow will only disable 1 or 2 of the panels at a time.  
This design also adds reliability such that a mechanical or electrical failure 
of a single panel doesn't disable the entire system.  Additionally, a smaller 
panel is easier to replace and cost less.

To ensure reliability I was also planning to NOT creat an array of series and 
parallel panels going to one controller but rather each panel to its own 
controller.  I believe the current recommendation is to use MPPT over PWM?

There is a wide range of prices for panels and controllers but I'm having a 
hard time determining which ones are a good value.  I know you get what you pay 
for but over paying is silly.  At the boat show, 50w, semi-flexible, >20% 
efficient, monocrystalline panels were going for as much as $500!  I've seen 
charge controllers as high as $250.  I know there are a few ebay haters here 
but the comparable panels I found were $125 and 20A MPPT controllers for $11 
with free shipping.  Is there something I'm missing?

Besides disparaging comments about ebay or about me being cheap, does anyone 
have any insights about the design or component selection.  

I was originally pursuing a multi-channel controller but it seems no one makes 
them.

When using multiple (4) controllers do they need to be diode separated from the 
battery?  

What about the dump load?  

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

1. Panels in a multi panel system with panels wired in parallel should have a 
diode in series with each panel, but many panels come with an incorporated 
diode and adding another one will just waste power. The manufacturer's 
documentation will say it there is a diode incorporated since that is an added 
feature. 

2. There is no problem hooking up multiple panels to the same charge controller 
so long as you stay within maximum ratings. Multiple controllers should work 
fine, but at an added cost. Quality controllers are not particularly failure 
prone, but I get you desire for redundancy as a matter of principle.  

3. I have had good experience with Morningstar controllers, and my choice was 
influenced by recommendations from several people. Whatever you purchase, get a 
decent one, and if it has at least a few LEDs to indicate the controller's 
state and the battery state of charge then you probably won't need a separate 
battery monitor. A battery volt meter and a current meter for observing charge 
rate, will be sufficient in my experience. I can't really see that a separate 
monitor would be of any use unless it can at least keep a running total of the 
ampere hours delivered to the battery. 

4. MPPT controllers will squeeze a bit more current out of your panels but at 
an increased cost of purchase. Different panels have different efficiency 
ratings, and all else being equal, will cost more in proportion.

5. My experience with bimini mounted panels last winter is that on a sunny day 
at anchor you can expect the maximum mid-day charging rate to be about 1/2 the 
panel ratings, and the total ampere hours for the day to about 3 times the 
maximum amp rating total for the panels. (You never get the rated output of a 
panel unless it is pointing squarely at the sun.) To put it another way, with 2 
100 watt panels rated at 7 amps each, we got around 7.5 amps at noon hour with 
both panels in parallel and at the latitude of Miami. This worked out to better 
than 45 ampere hours per day with the setup we had. Combined with a small wind 
mill, it was enough to keep the ice box refrigeration going without having to 
run the engine for a couple of weeks. 

Steve Thomas
  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
  To: C&C List 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:43 AM
  Subject: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers


  Hey folks,

  I'm looking to add solar panels to my boat.  I have a new hard top dodger 
that will be a great place to mount some flexible panels.  I realize that 
attention will have to be given to the boom so that it's shadow it minimized.  
I've given consideration to the fact that some shadow is likely inevitable.  My 
understanding is that one large solar panel can have a substantial drop in it's 
output or be completely disabled if only a relatively small shadow is cast.  As 
such I am planning for 4 smaller 50w panels instead of 2 100w panels.  The idea 
being that a small shadow will only disable 1 or 2 of the panels at a time.  
This design also adds reliability such that a mechanical or electrical failure 
of a single panel doesn't disable the entire system.  Additionally, a smaller 
panel is easier to replace and cost less.

  To ensure reliability I was also planning to NOT creat an array of series and 
parallel panels going to one controller but rather each panel to its own 
controller.  I believe the current recommendation is to use MPPT over PWM?

  There is a wide range of prices for panels and controllers but I'm having a 
hard time determining which ones are a good value.  I know you get what you pay 
for but over paying is silly.  At the boat show, 50w, semi-flexible, >20% 
efficient, monocrystalline panels were going for as much as $500!  I've seen 
charge controllers as high as $250.  I know there are a few ebay haters here 
but the comparable panels I found were $125 and 20A MPPT controllers for $11 
with free shipping.  Is there something I'm missing?

  Besides disparaging comments about ebay or about me being cheap, does anyone 
have any insights about the design or component selection.  

  I was originally pursuing a multi-channel controller but it seems no one 
makes them.

  When using multiple (4) controllers do they need to be diode separated from 
the battery?  

  What about the dump load?  I plan to use a single 200w resistive heater. 
Would it need to be diode separated from each controller?

  Thanks,

  Josh Muckley
  S/V Sea Hawk
  1989 C&C 37+
  Solomons, MD



--


  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

  Email address:
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
  To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
  http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Emai

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

[Ebay via CnC-List]

I've been very happy with my tiny sunsaver charger.  I think 20 amps is about 
$80.  Probably not the best out there by any means but effective and reliable.  
This really all comes down to what you're doing with the boat.  Acceptable for 
long term cruising is different from weekend sailing in the US.  Not better or 
worse, just different needs.

I wouldn't discount high quality rigid panels for power to $ value.  

But again, keep it simple

John


Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 14, 2014, at 9:44 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 1st off – you can parallel them into one controller with only the very 
> tiniest loss of efficiency despite shadows.
> 2nd – many controllers out there are crap at best. Morningstar makes 
> excellent PWM and MPPT controllers. I have had great luck with mine. I would 
> not even consider cheap FleaBay contollers. YMMV.  PWM controllers are less 
> efficient, but they are a lot cheaper.
> See 
> http://support.morningstarcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Trad-PWM-vs-TrakStar-MPPT-April-2014.pdf
> Morningstar MPPT :
> http://www.amazon.com/Morningstar-Sunsaver-TrackStar-Charge-Controller/dp/B006H9VPL6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413293847&sr=8-1&keywords=morningstar+solar+controller+mppt+15+amp
>   about $220.
>  
> http://www.amazon.com/MorningStar-ProStar-PS-30-Charge-Controller/dp/B003YIB7QQ/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1413293962&sr=8-7&keywords=morningstar+solar+controller+PWM
>  
> About half that price and includes an anchor light output.
>  
> Just get one QUALITY controller. Good PWM beats some random MPPT scavenged 
> off of Fleabay. Don’t forget to look at panel amp output, don’t do the math 
> for 12  volts. Most panels are 16-18 volts, so 200 watts at 16 volts is 12.5 
> amps and within the range of a 15 amp controller.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
> C&C 35 MK I
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh 
> Muckley via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:43 AM
> To: C&C List
> Subject: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers
>  
> Hey folks,
> 
> I'm looking to add solar panels to my boat.  I have a new hard top dodger 
> that will be a great place to mount some flexible panels.  I realize that 
> attention will have to be given to the boom so that it's shadow it minimized. 
>  I've given consideration to the fact that some shadow is likely inevitable.  
> My understanding is that one large solar panel can have a substantial drop in 
> it's output or be completely disabled if only a relatively small shadow is 
> cast.  As such I am planning for 4 smaller 50w panels instead of 2 100w 
> panels.  The idea being that a small shadow will only disable 1 or 2 of the 
> panels at a time.  This design also adds reliability such that a mechanical 
> or electrical failure of a single panel doesn't disable the entire system.  
> Additionally, a smaller panel is easier to replace and cost less.
> 
> To ensure reliability I was also planning to NOT creat an array of series and 
> parallel panels going to one controller but rather each panel to its own 
> controller.  I believe the current recommendation is to use MPPT over PWM?
> 
> There is a wide range of prices for panels and controllers but I'm having a 
> hard time determining which ones are a good value.  I know you get what you 
> pay for but over paying is silly.  At the boat show, 50w, semi-flexible, >20% 
> efficient, monocrystalline panels were going for as much as $500!  I've seen 
> charge controllers as high as $250.  I know there are a few ebay haters here 
> but the comparable panels I found were $125 and 20A MPPT controllers for $11 
> with free shipping.  Is there something I'm missing?
> 
> Besides disparaging comments about ebay or about me being cheap, does anyone 
> have any insights about the design or component selection. 
> 
> I was originally pursuing a multi-channel controller but it seems no one 
> makes them.
> 
> When using multiple (4) controllers do they need to be diode separated from 
> the battery? 
> 
> What about the dump load?  I plan to use a single 200w resistive heater. 
> Would it need to be diode separated from each controller?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
> at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

1st off - you can parallel them into one controller with only the very tiniest 
loss of efficiency despite shadows.
2nd - many controllers out there are crap at best. Morningstar makes excellent 
PWM and MPPT controllers. I have had great luck with mine. I would not even 
consider cheap FleaBay contollers. YMMV.  PWM controllers are less efficient, 
but they are a lot cheaper.
See 
http://support.morningstarcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Trad-PWM-vs-TrakStar-MPPT-April-2014.pdf
Morningstar MPPT :
http://www.amazon.com/Morningstar-Sunsaver-TrackStar-Charge-Controller/dp/B006H9VPL6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413293847&sr=8-1&keywords=morningstar+solar+controller+mppt+15+amp
  about $220.

http://www.amazon.com/MorningStar-ProStar-PS-30-Charge-Controller/dp/B003YIB7QQ/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1413293962&sr=8-7&keywords=morningstar+solar+controller+PWM

About half that price and includes an anchor light output.

Just get one QUALITY controller. Good PWM beats some random MPPT scavenged off 
of Fleabay. Don't forget to look at panel amp output, don't do the math for 12  
volts. Most panels are 16-18 volts, so 200 watts at 16 volts is 12.5 amps and 
within the range of a 15 amp controller.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:43 AM
To: C&C List
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers


Hey folks,

I'm looking to add solar panels to my boat.  I have a new hard top dodger that 
will be a great place to mount some flexible panels.  I realize that attention 
will have to be given to the boom so that it's shadow it minimized.  I've given 
consideration to the fact that some shadow is likely inevitable.  My 
understanding is that one large solar panel can have a substantial drop in it's 
output or be completely disabled if only a relatively small shadow is cast.  As 
such I am planning for 4 smaller 50w panels instead of 2 100w panels.  The idea 
being that a small shadow will only disable 1 or 2 of the panels at a time.  
This design also adds reliability such that a mechanical or electrical failure 
of a single panel doesn't disable the entire system.  Additionally, a smaller 
panel is easier to replace and cost less.

To ensure reliability I was also planning to NOT creat an array of series and 
parallel panels going to one controller but rather each panel to its own 
controller.  I believe the current recommendation is to use MPPT over PWM?

There is a wide range of prices for panels and controllers but I'm having a 
hard time determining which ones are a good value.  I know you get what you pay 
for but over paying is silly.  At the boat show, 50w, semi-flexible, >20% 
efficient, monocrystalline panels were going for as much as $500!  I've seen 
charge controllers as high as $250.  I know there are a few ebay haters here 
but the comparable panels I found were $125 and 20A MPPT controllers for $11 
with free shipping.  Is there something I'm missing?

Besides disparaging comments about ebay or about me being cheap, does anyone 
have any insights about the design or component selection.

I was originally pursuing a multi-channel controller but it seems no one makes 
them.

When using multiple (4) controllers do they need to be diode separated from the 
battery?

What about the dump load?  I plan to use a single 200w resistive heater. Would 
it need to be diode separated from each controller?

Thanks,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

You might be well advised to look at Sailboat Owners forum, where this has been 
discussed multiple times (e.g. here: 
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1149325&highlight=solar%20panel).
 Also, a good read here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solar_panel.

There are various reports on using the cheap panels vs. the high quality 
expensive. Apparently, the expensive ones are most often produced in the same 
factory, on the same production line; however, they are thoroughly tested, so 
that all cells are working properly and produce equal amounts of energy. The 
cheap ones are the ones that did not make it through that QA.

Don’t skimp on controller(s). There are well documented reports showing that 
some can deliver substantially more energy (15% or even 20% more), which is 
especially important if you are using the solar panels to top up your batteries.

>From what I read, GenaSun controllers have the best opinion (price per 
>performance). Morning Star controllers (supposedly) are also quite good (this 
>is what I have).

Some controllers offer dual battery connection (with 50-50 or 90-10 split). If 
I were doing it again, I would install a simple controller (going to the house 
side) and an Echo Charger to charge the starting (spare) battery, as needed.

I don’t think you need a “dump load”, if you connect it directly to the 
batteries.

If you use multiple controllers, you will have some fun in controlling them, as 
they would see the wrong voltage on the battery (they would see the combined 
voltage of all controllers; rather than the battery itself). However, I don’t 
think you need any diodes, as they all have this protection built in (so the 
battery cannot feed the panel).

have fun

Marek
s/v “Legato”
in Ottawa

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:43 AM
To: C&C List 
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

Hey folks,

I'm looking to add solar panels to my boat.  I have a new hard top dodger that 
will be a great place to mount some flexible panels.  I realize that attention 
will have to be given to the boom so that it's shadow it minimized.  I've given 
consideration to the fact that some shadow is likely inevitable.  My 
understanding is that one large solar panel can have a substantial drop in it's 
output or be completely disabled if only a relatively small shadow is cast.  As 
such I am planning for 4 smaller 50w panels instead of 2 100w panels.  The idea 
being that a small shadow will only disable 1 or 2 of the panels at a time.  
This design also adds reliability such that a mechanical or electrical failure 
of a single panel doesn't disable the entire system.  Additionally, a smaller 
panel is easier to replace and cost less.

To ensure reliability I was also planning to NOT creat an array of series and 
parallel panels going to one controller but rather each panel to its own 
controller.  I believe the current recommendation is to use MPPT over PWM?

There is a wide range of prices for panels and controllers but I'm having a 
hard time determining which ones are a good value.  I know you get what you pay 
for but over paying is silly.  At the boat show, 50w, semi-flexible, >20% 
efficient, monocrystalline panels were going for as much as $500!  I've seen 
charge controllers as high as $250.  I know there are a few ebay haters here 
but the comparable panels I found were $125 and 20A MPPT controllers for $11 
with free shipping.  Is there something I'm missing?

Besides disparaging comments about ebay or about me being cheap, does anyone 
have any insights about the design or component selection.  

I was originally pursuing a multi-channel controller but it seems no one makes 
them.

When using multiple (4) controllers do they need to be diode separated from the 
battery?  

What about the dump load?  I plan to use a single 200w resistive heater. Would 
it need to be diode separated from each controller?

Thanks,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels and charge controllers

[Ebay via CnC-List]

Josh:

You've certainly given this a lot of thought.  Don't overthink or overbuild it. 
 KISS

If it were me, I'd go with two 100 watt panels back to a single $50 controller 
and keep the wiring as simple as possible.  Keep in mind you're talking about a 
system that will deliver about 60 ah per day (12v). Frankly I wouldn't even 
worry about a load assuming you're wiring it directly to a battery bank of any 
size and not through a switch.  

You may also want to look at panels from RV stores which are usually identical 
but lack the boat related price.  Check model numbers carefully if you go that 
route.  Keep in mind the weight going onto the Bimini as 4 50 watt panels will 
nearly double the weight of 2 100w panels.  You'll also double the mounting 
hardware, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

John

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 14, 2014, at 5:43 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey folks,
> 
> I'm looking to add solar panels to my boat.  I have a new hard top dodger 
> that will be a great place to mount some flexible panels.  I realize that 
> attention will have to be given to the boom so that it's shadow it minimized. 
>  I've given consideration to the fact that some shadow is likely inevitable.  
> My understanding is that one large solar panel can have a substantial drop in 
> it's output or be completely disabled if only a relatively small shadow is 
> cast.  As such I am planning for 4 smaller 50w panels instead of 2 100w 
> panels.  The idea being that a small shadow will only disable 1 or 2 of the 
> panels at a time.  This design also adds reliability such that a mechanical 
> or electrical failure of a single panel doesn't disable the entire system.  
> Additionally, a smaller panel is easier to replace and cost less.
> 
> To ensure reliability I was also planning to NOT creat an array of series and 
> parallel panels going to one controller but rather each panel to its own 
> controller.  I believe the current recommendation is to use MPPT over PWM?
> 
> There is a wide range of prices for panels and controllers but I'm having a 
> hard time determining which ones are a good value.  I know you get what you 
> pay for but over paying is silly.  At the boat show, 50w, semi-flexible, >20% 
> efficient, monocrystalline panels were going for as much as $500!  I've seen 
> charge controllers as high as $250.  I know there are a few ebay haters here 
> but the comparable panels I found were $125 and 20A MPPT controllers for $11 
> with free shipping.  Is there something I'm missing?
> 
> Besides disparaging comments about ebay or about me being cheap, does anyone 
> have any insights about the design or component selection. 
> 
> I was originally pursuing a multi-channel controller but it seems no one 
> makes them.
> 
> When using multiple (4) controllers do they need to be diode separated from 
> the battery? 
> 
> What about the dump load?  I plan to use a single 200w resistive heater. 
> Would it need to be diode separated from each controller?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
> at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar Panels & Clear Plastic Windows

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Suggest taking a piece of the material you plan on using for the window and 
putting it over the panel to see the effect. There are many different kinds of 
plastic and their effect on light transmission can vary. A practical test is 
the best way to go methinks. 

Rich

> On Jul 16, 2014, at 0:47, Sam Salter via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> ‎Okay here's the question - 
> 
> Will a solar panel work under a clear, flexible plastic window. The sort sewn 
> into a Sunbrella dodger.
> 
> Customer wants a companionway cover but his solar panel is mounted ‎on top of 
> the top slider. Thought I could sew in a window if it would work. 
> 
> sam :-)
> C&C 26 Liquorice 
> Ghost Lake Alberta 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
> at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Dr. Mark Bodnar]

  
  

  I keep a small cheap solar panel on my boat during the summer.
  My alternator on my outboard is not functioning - so that is the
  only charge for my batteries.  With only day sailing and the rare
  overnight it seems to keep battery in good shape - but obviously
  mine battery is not really challenged running a radio and VHF a
  few hrs per week.
  
  Regarding Marek's comment on MaineSail - I just stumbled across a
  post of his on Sailboat Owners forum.
  http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=156220
  He was testing a battery for winter discharge - found after 2
  months the battery did great with no extra charge in cold weather.
  He then forgot about it - didn't re-check until after a 9mo - hot
  Maine summer, but the battery was still in very good condition. 
  Sounds like fully charged but disconnected is a good option.
  
  Mark
  -
  Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
  On 26/09/2013 10:10 PM, Marek Dziedzic wrote:


  

  Rich,
   
  I +1 the PowerFilm solar
  panels. I bought a 21W panel and a two-battery controller 
  (Morningstar) from Defender this spring and the system
  worked quite well over the summer. The panel was installed
  over a bimini (you can tie it or use snaps (like the ones
  for the dodger)).
   
  I believe that flexible ones
  are better (same thing as Edd says).
   
  Make sure that you buy a
  good controller; this is what makes or breaks the system.
  You may want to read Maine Sail’s musings on controllers
  and how they affect the charging time. 
   
  The Genasun is supposedly
  one of the better ones, though i am quite happy with the
  Morningstar.
   
  Good luck
   
  Marek (in Ottawa).
   
  ___
  Message: 2
  Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:42:56 -0400
  From: Edd Schillay <e...@schillay.com>    
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
        Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar
  panels
  Message-ID: <5773b53a-3b21-4af5-8589-cc51c5bdd...@schillay.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  
  Rich,
  
  I've installed a PowerFilm solar panel on the Enterprise
  years ago along with a two-battery regulator. I think the
  flexible panels are best because the solid ones tend to
  crack and break. The panel sits on top of my companionway
  hatch during the warmer months but I move it to a southern
  exposure angle during the winter so snow won't pile up on
  it. 
  
  PowerFilm link: http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290044%7C2290048&id=1206968
Controler / Regulator Link: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290044%7C2290047&id=1802202 
  
  
  
  All the best,
  
  Edd
  
  
  Edd M. Schillay
  Starship Enterprise
  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island, NY 
  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Web

  
  
  
  
  ___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com



  


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Marek Dziedzic]

And that last 5-10% is quite important, if you want to keep your batteries 
for more than one or two seasons. Especially if you have the AGM batteries.


Marek (in Ottawa)

-Original Message- 
--


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:59:06 -0400
From: Bill Bina 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels
Message-ID: <5245ab4a.3040...@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

I have a single 20 watt (nominal) panel laying on top of my sliding
hatch. What it does, and does very well, is top up the charge of my
batteries during time when I am not on the boat to 100%, and hold them
there. Most people are never aware, but their batteries seldom get
charged that last 5-10% of capacity. Charging is far more complex than
just stuffing amps into the battery as fast as you can. Running the
engine for 20 minutes with batteries that are at 90% charge already,
won't do much at all. That last 5-10% requires a long slow charge to
achieve.

Bill Bina

On 9/27/2013 11:06 AM, Jim Watts wrote:

I bought two of the 20W amorphous panels on sale at Canadian Tire, and
wired them to a Coleman controller belowdecks. They retail for $120, I
got them on sale for $60 each. I figured they would be a good addition
for charging while at anchor.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/SolarEnergy/PRD~0112023P/Coleman+20W+Amorphous+Solar+Panel.jsp?locale=en
<http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/SolarEnergy/PRD%7E0112023P/Coleman+20W+Amorphous+Solar+Panel.jsp?locale=en>

The most output I saw for the/pair/ was 1.8 A at high noon on a
cloudless day. They are heavy and not worth the hassle of dragging
them around at less than 1 Amp per panel. I can generate that much
power with 15 minutes of engine run time and make hot water at the
same time. Anyone who wants them can have them for $40 each.





___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Jim Watts]

I know that, Bill. I figured my batteries would last longer if I kept some
form of charge going in; I wanted the panels to be a reasonable contributor
of amps for the hassle involved, and they just didn't work that way.
I was going to use one of the panels as a battery maintainer in the summer
when I'm not plugged in to shore power, and to do that last 10% of charge,
but I found that the size and weight and relative fragility of the panel
made it too cumbersome to store and drag around every time I dock. They
were not a good weight/power ratio.


On 27 September 2013 08:59, Bill Bina  wrote:

>  I have a single 20 watt (nominal) panel laying on top of my sliding
> hatch. What it does, and does very well, is top up the charge of my
> batteries during time when I am not on the boat to 100%, and hold them
> there. Most people are never aware, but their batteries seldom get charged
> that last 5-10% of capacity. Charging is far more complex than just
> stuffing amps into the battery as fast as you can. Running the engine for
> 20 minutes with batteries that are at 90% charge already, won't do much at
> all. That last 5-10% requires a long slow charge to achieve.
>
> Bill Bina
>
>
> On 9/27/2013 11:06 AM, Jim Watts wrote:
>
>  I bought two of the 20W amorphous panels on sale at Canadian Tire, and
> wired them to a Coleman controller belowdecks. They retail for $120, I got
> them on sale for $60 each. I figured they would be a good addition for
> charging while at anchor.
>
>
> http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/SolarEnergy/PRD~0112023P/Coleman+20W+Amorphous+Solar+Panel.jsp?locale=en
>
>  The most output I saw for the* pair* was 1.8 A at high noon on a
> cloudless day. They are heavy and not worth the hassle of dragging them
> around at less than 1 Amp per panel. I can generate that much power with 15
> minutes of engine run time and make hot water at the same time. Anyone who
> wants them can have them for $40 each.
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Bill Bina]

I have a single 20 watt (nominal) panel laying on top of my sliding 
hatch. What it does, and does very well, is top up the charge of my 
batteries during time when I am not on the boat to 100%, and hold them 
there. Most people are never aware, but their batteries seldom get 
charged that last 5-10% of capacity. Charging is far more complex than 
just stuffing amps into the battery as fast as you can. Running the 
engine for 20 minutes with batteries that are at 90% charge already, 
won't do much at all. That last 5-10% requires a long slow charge to 
achieve.


Bill Bina

On 9/27/2013 11:06 AM, Jim Watts wrote:
I bought two of the 20W amorphous panels on sale at Canadian Tire, and 
wired them to a Coleman controller belowdecks. They retail for $120, I 
got them on sale for $60 each. I figured they would be a good addition 
for charging while at anchor.


http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/SolarEnergy/PRD~0112023P/Coleman+20W+Amorphous+Solar+Panel.jsp?locale=en 



The most output I saw for the/pair/ was 1.8 A at high noon on a 
cloudless day. They are heavy and not worth the hassle of dragging 
them around at less than 1 Amp per panel. I can generate that much 
power with 15 minutes of engine run time and make hot water at the 
same time. Anyone who wants them can have them for $40 each.




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Jim Watts]

I bought two of the 20W amorphous panels on sale at Canadian Tire, and
wired them to a Coleman controller belowdecks. They retail for $120, I got
them on sale for $60 each. I figured they would be a good addition for
charging while at anchor.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/SolarEnergy/PRD~0112023P/Coleman+20W+Amorphous+Solar+Panel.jsp?locale=en

The most output I saw for the* pair* was 1.8 A at high noon on a cloudless
day. They are heavy and not worth the hassle of dragging them around at
less than 1 Amp per panel. I can generate that much power with 15 minutes
of engine run time and make hot water at the same time. Anyone who wants
them can have them for $40 each.



On 27 September 2013 04:19, Della Barba, Joe wrote:

> I got a plug and socket for a trolling motor for the solar panel.
>
> ** **
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> Coquina
>
> C&C 35 MK I
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *David
> Knecht
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 26, 2013 3:53 PM
>
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Solar panels
>
> ** **
>
> How did you guys wire the panel into the battery charging system?  Run
> wires directly to the battery or some kind of plug through the deck?  Dave
> 
>
> ** **
>
> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:53 PM, "Della Barba, Joe" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> 
>
> I got a 25 watt panel from FleaBay that has been doing well for me. I got
> a MorningStar controller that is way better than some of the junk out there
> as well.
> You can see the daily voltage swing with the sun rise and set here:
> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/N3HGB-5?range=week
>
> Joe Della Barba
> --
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> David Knecht
>
> Aries
>
> 1990 C&C 34+
>
> New London, CT
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Della Barba, Joe]

I got a plug and socket for a trolling motor for the solar panel.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 3:53 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels

How did you guys wire the panel into the battery charging system?  Run wires 
directly to the battery or some kind of plug through the deck?  Dave

On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:53 PM, "Della Barba, Joe" 
mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>> wrote:


I got a 25 watt panel from FleaBay that has been doing well for me. I got a 
MorningStar controller that is way better than some of the junk out there as 
well.
You can see the daily voltage swing with the sun rise and set here:
http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/N3HGB-5?range=week

Joe Della Barba
--

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>


David Knecht
Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01CEBB51.F37550A0]

<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Woody]

Sorry everyone! The same as Steve has not Dave hope everyone's summer has gone 
well  
Cheers woody

Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone

Woody  wrote:

>Hi,
>I have 90 watts total with two of the 30 watt panels Dave is talking about and 
>an older 30 watt folding larger panel charging two agm batteries which powers 
>the tv, bilge pump, electric cooler and anything else I want to run on 12 
>volt. I have been very pleased with Canadian tire solar products with over 400 
>watts at home and I always buy them on sale which they are often. Coleman took 
>over the name from sunforce who I believe still supplies them.  Some of the 
>panels come with a simple voltage regulator for 105 watts or you can buy it 
>seperatly. You can buy connectors such as the one on my boat bringing the 
>three panels into the one regulator. You can view these products on Coleman or 
>sunforce.ca. The panels are velcroed to the boat. 
>Cheers,
>Woody 26 Goldfinch
>
>Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone
>
>Steve Thomas  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I purchased a 30 watt Coleman panel for a hundred bucks from Canadian Tire 
>> but I have not used it yet. It appears to be of the
>>same quality of construction as any ordinary aluminum framed crystalline 
>>solar panel. They are a bit expensive in dollars per
>>watt, but there is always some premium in that respect for the smaller sizes. 
>>My thinking was also for trickle charging and easy
>>storage when not in use.
>>
>>Steve Thomas
>>C&C27 MKIII
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of
>>Knowles Rich
>>Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:28 PM
>>To: cnc-list Cnc-List
>>Subject: Stus-List Solar panels
>>
>>
>>A couple of us are contemplating purchasing solar panels to act as trickle 
>>chargers over the winter. One of our local retailers is
>>selling Coleman brand panels of various capacities and physical sizes at 
>>reasonable prices. Has anyone any experience with the
>>Coleman product, other than the good old camp stove and lanterns?
>>
>>Any other suggestions for good solar panels?
>>
>>Rich Knowles
>>INDIGO LF38
>>Halifax, NS.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>___
>>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>___
>>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>___
>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Woody]

Hi,
I have 90 watts total with two of the 30 watt panels Dave is talking about and 
an older 30 watt folding larger panel charging two agm batteries which powers 
the tv, bilge pump, electric cooler and anything else I want to run on 12 volt. 
I have been very pleased with Canadian tire solar products with over 400 watts 
at home and I always buy them on sale which they are often. Coleman took over 
the name from sunforce who I believe still supplies them.  Some of the panels 
come with a simple voltage regulator for 105 watts or you can buy it seperatly. 
You can buy connectors such as the one on my boat bringing the three panels 
into the one regulator. You can view these products on Coleman or sunforce.ca. 
The panels are velcroed to the boat. 
Cheers,
Woody 26 Goldfinch

Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone

Steve Thomas  wrote:

>
>
> I purchased a 30 watt Coleman panel for a hundred bucks from Canadian Tire 
> but I have not used it yet. It appears to be of the
>same quality of construction as any ordinary aluminum framed crystalline solar 
>panel. They are a bit expensive in dollars per
>watt, but there is always some premium in that respect for the smaller sizes. 
>My thinking was also for trickle charging and easy
>storage when not in use.
>
>Steve Thomas
>C&C27 MKIII
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of
>Knowles Rich
>Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:28 PM
>To: cnc-list Cnc-List
>Subject: Stus-List Solar panels
>
>
>A couple of us are contemplating purchasing solar panels to act as trickle 
>chargers over the winter. One of our local retailers is
>selling Coleman brand panels of various capacities and physical sizes at 
>reasonable prices. Has anyone any experience with the
>Coleman product, other than the good old camp stove and lanterns?
>
>Any other suggestions for good solar panels?
>
>Rich Knowles
>INDIGO LF38
>Halifax, NS.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>___
>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>___
>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Marek Dziedzic]

Rich,

I +1 the PowerFilm solar panels. I bought a 21W panel and a two-battery 
controller  (Morningstar) from Defender this spring and the system worked quite 
well over the summer. The panel was installed over a bimini (you can tie it or 
use snaps (like the ones for the dodger)).

I believe that flexible ones are better (same thing as Edd says).

Make sure that you buy a good controller; this is what makes or breaks the 
system. You may want to read Maine Sail’s musings on controllers and how they 
affect the charging time. 

The Genasun is supposedly one of the better ones, though i am quite happy with 
the Morningstar.

Good luck

Marek (in Ottawa).

___
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:42:56 -0400
From: Edd Schillay 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels
Message-ID: <5773b53a-3b21-4af5-8589-cc51c5bdd...@schillay.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Rich,

I've installed a PowerFilm solar panel on the Enterprise years ago along with a 
two-battery regulator. I think the flexible panels are best because the solid 
ones tend to crack and break. The panel sits on top of my companionway hatch 
during the warmer months but I move it to a southern exposure angle during the 
winter so snow won't pile up on it. 

PowerFilm link: 
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290044%7C2290048&id=1206968
Controler / Regulator Link: 
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290044%7C2290047&id=1802202
 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Web___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Stevan Plavsa]

I just installed a 65 watt panel on my bimini this summer. I got it from an
ebay store here in Canada (free shipping). For the money I spent I'm more
than satisfied.
This is the seller: http://stores.ebay.ca/Solar-Energy-DC-Inc

I went with the cheap and cheerful CMZ whatever Chinese PWM controller, I
didn't trust the cheap MPPT (but I trust the slightly more expensive PWM,
go figure). If I was doing a 20 watt panel or something small I would buy
their panels again, and wires for that matter but I'de go with a genasun
controller:
http://genasun.com/products-store/mppt-solar-charge-controllers/

Compass Marine has a great article about installing a 20 watt panel:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solar_panel

I wired mine through the side of the coaming close to where the bimini
support is. The wires are run along the bimini pole and then through a
cable gland, which is oriented vertically so very little chance of water
intrusion and less unsightly than going in through the top. My batteries
are under the quarter birth on the starboard side and the controller is
mounted just above the QB .. sort of part of the general tech located at
the nav station.

Not really a winter application. I might buy a small ten watt or something
and wire that in for the winter months because of course the bimini comes
down.

Good luck.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto




On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 6:19 PM, David Knecht wrote:

> Someone I was talking to recommended doing through deck part with a
> socket/connector like this Perko 2-Prong Watertight Deck Connection:
>
>
> http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2289944%7C2289946&id=846701
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Edd Schillay  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> That was the toughest part of the job -- running the wires. My batteries
> are under the starboard settee, close to the center of the boat.
>
> I drilled through the cabin top where the access panel is above the
> galley, then snaked the wire through the pole. My regulator is mounted
> under the sink and then I have wires run from there, through a hole, to the
> batteries.
>
>
>  All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website
>
> On Sep 26, 2013, at 3:52 PM, David Knecht  wrote:
>
> How did you guys wire the panel into the battery charging system?  Run
> wires directly to the battery or some kind of plug through the deck?  Dave
>
> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:53 PM, "Della Barba, Joe" 
> wrote:
>
> I got a 25 watt panel from FleaBay that has been doing well for me. I got
> a MorningStar controller that is way better than some of the junk out there
> as well.
> You can see the daily voltage swing with the sun rise and set here:
> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/N3HGB-5?range=week
>
> Joe Della Barba
> --
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> David Knecht
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
> 
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> David Knecht, Ph.D.
> Professor and Head of Microscopy Facility
> Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
> U-3125
> 91 N. Eagleville Rd.
> University of Connecticut
> Storrs, CT 06269
> 860-486-2200
> 860-486-4331 (fax)
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[David Knecht]

Someone I was talking to recommended doing through deck part with a 
socket/connector like this Perko 2-Prong Watertight Deck Connection:

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2289944%7C2289946&id=846701


On Sep 26, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Edd Schillay  wrote:

> David,
> 
>   That was the toughest part of the job -- running the wires. My 
> batteries are under the starboard settee, close to the center of the boat. 
> 
>   I drilled through the cabin top where the access panel is above the 
> galley, then snaked the wire through the pole. My regulator is mounted under 
> the sink and then I have wires run from there, through a hole, to the 
> batteries. 
> 
> 
>   
>   All the best,
> 
>   Edd
> 
> 
>   Edd M. Schillay
>   Starship Enterprise
>   C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>   City Island, NY 
>   Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website
> 
> On Sep 26, 2013, at 3:52 PM, David Knecht  wrote:
> 
>> How did you guys wire the panel into the battery charging system?  Run wires 
>> directly to the battery or some kind of plug through the deck?  Dave
>> 
>> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:53 PM, "Della Barba, Joe"  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I got a 25 watt panel from FleaBay that has been doing well for me. I got a 
>>> MorningStar controller that is way better than some of the junk out there 
>>> as well.
>>> You can see the daily voltage swing with the sun rise and set here:
>>> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/N3HGB-5?range=week
>>> 
>>> Joe Della Barba
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> 
>> David Knecht
>> Aries
>> 1990 C&C 34+
>> New London, CT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

David Knecht, Ph.D.
Professor and Head of Microscopy Facility
Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
U-3125
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
University of Connecticut
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200
860-486-4331 (fax)




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Jack Brennan]

I bought this 30w kit on Amazon about two months ago and has been very 
satisfied so far.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BSTUOJ4/ref=pe_385040_30332190_pe_175190_21431760_3p_M3T1_ST1_dp_1





From: Edd Schillay 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 4:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels

David, 

That was the toughest part of the job -- running the wires. My batteries are 
under the starboard settee, close to the center of the boat. 

I drilled through the cabin top where the access panel is above the galley, 
then snaked the wire through the pole. My regulator is mounted under the sink 
and then I have wires run from there, through a hole, to the batteries. 




All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

On Sep 26, 2013, at 3:52 PM, David Knecht  wrote:


  How did you guys wire the panel into the battery charging system?  Run wires 
directly to the battery or some kind of plug through the deck?  Dave 

  On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:53 PM, "Della Barba, Joe"  
wrote:


I got a 25 watt panel from FleaBay that has been doing well for me. I got a 
MorningStar controller that is way better than some of the junk out there as 
well.
You can see the daily voltage swing with the sun rise and set here:
http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/N3HGB-5?range=week

Joe Della Barba
-- 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com



  David Knecht
  Aries
  1990 C&C 34+
  New London, CT

   

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com





___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Edd Schillay]

David,

That was the toughest part of the job -- running the wires. My 
batteries are under the starboard settee, close to the center of the boat. 

I drilled through the cabin top where the access panel is above the 
galley, then snaked the wire through the pole. My regulator is mounted under 
the sink and then I have wires run from there, through a hole, to the 
batteries. 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

On Sep 26, 2013, at 3:52 PM, David Knecht  wrote:

> How did you guys wire the panel into the battery charging system?  Run wires 
> directly to the battery or some kind of plug through the deck?  Dave
> 
> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:53 PM, "Della Barba, Joe"  
> wrote:
> 
>> I got a 25 watt panel from FleaBay that has been doing well for me. I got a 
>> MorningStar controller that is way better than some of the junk out there as 
>> well.
>> You can see the daily voltage swing with the sun rise and set here:
>> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/N3HGB-5?range=week
>> 
>> Joe Della Barba
>> -- 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> David Knecht
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[David Knecht]

How did you guys wire the panel into the battery charging system?  Run wires directly to the battery or some kind of plug through the deck?  DaveOn Sep 26, 2013, at 2:53 PM, "Della Barba, Joe"  wrote:I got a 25 watt panel from FleaBay that has been doing well for me. I got a MorningStar controller that is way better than some of the junk out there as well.You can see the daily voltage swing with the sun rise and set here:http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/N3HGB-5?range=weekJoe Della Barba-- ___This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com___This List is provided by the C&C Photo Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comCnC-List@cnc-list.com

David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Della Barba, Joe]

I got a 25 watt panel from FleaBay that has been doing well for me. I got a 
MorningStar controller that is way better than some of the junk out there as 
well.
You can see the daily voltage swing with the sun rise and set here:
http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/N3HGB-5?range=week

Joe Della Barba
-- 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Steve Thomas]

 I purchased a 30 watt Coleman panel for a hundred bucks from Canadian Tire but 
I have not used it yet. It appears to be of the
same quality of construction as any ordinary aluminum framed crystalline solar 
panel. They are a bit expensive in dollars per
watt, but there is always some premium in that respect for the smaller sizes. 
My thinking was also for trickle charging and easy
storage when not in use.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of
Knowles Rich
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:28 PM
To: cnc-list Cnc-List
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels


A couple of us are contemplating purchasing solar panels to act as trickle 
chargers over the winter. One of our local retailers is
selling Coleman brand panels of various capacities and physical sizes at 
reasonable prices. Has anyone any experience with the
Coleman product, other than the good old camp stove and lanterns?

Any other suggestions for good solar panels?

Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.






___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Lee Youngblood]

Hi All,

The really good, light, powerful, and flexible panels are currently 
Solbian ones out of Italy.  They can even be zippered into your 
dodger or bimini.  These are the good ones used by cruisers and 
racers, and might be overkill if you are just looking at little auto 
trickle chargers from China.  The roll up panels sold by West Marine, 
Defender, etc self destructed on the way to NZ - course that may have 
been due to winds over 40 knots - big squalls.  I think the zipper 
solution may be a better way to go.


In Seattle, the guy to know is Brian at BRJ, www.brjsolutions.com 
  206-708-5157.  He's one of the best 
electrical/electronics outfitters in town, a good guy.  I have no 
connection - but we get our mail at the same great mail service, 
Dockside Solutions, so I'm happy to "plug" both businesses.


Cheers, Lee


A couple of us are contemplating purchasing solar panels to act as 
trickle chargers over the winter. One of our local retailers is 
selling Coleman brand panels of various capacities and physical 
sizes at reasonable prices. Has anyone any experience with the 
Coleman product, other than the good old camp stove and lanterns?


Any other suggestions for good solar panels?

Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.



--

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Nate Flesness]

No experience with Coleman specifically, but very good experience using a
10w hard panel (Defender - brand not remembered) bought years ago to
over-winter trickle charge (and keep from freezing) two 12v deep cycles, in
a similarly cold climate. Just make sure the panel is vertical and
south-facing to melt off sticky snow or ice. I lash mine to selected
lifelines depending on the direction of boat and cradle when stored. Sure
beats hauling those lead things out of the boat and home

Nate
"Sarah Jean"
1980 30-1
Siskiwit Bay Marina
Cornucopia, WI
Lake Superior




On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Knowles Rich  wrote:

> A couple of us are contemplating purchasing solar panels to act as trickle
> chargers over the winter. One of our local retailers is selling Coleman
> brand panels of various capacities and physical sizes at reasonable prices.
> Has anyone any experience with the Coleman product, other than the good old
> camp stove and lanterns?
>
> Any other suggestions for good solar panels?
>
> Rich Knowles
> INDIGO LF38
> Halifax, NS.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Edd Schillay]

Rich,

I've installed a PowerFilm solar panel on the Enterprise years ago 
along with a two-battery regulator. I think the flexible panels are best 
because the solid ones tend to crack and break. The panel sits on top of my 
companionway hatch during the warmer months but I move it to a southern 
exposure angle during the winter so snow won't pile up on it. 

PowerFilm link: 
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290044%7C2290048&id=1206968
Controler / Regulator Link: 
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290044%7C2290047&id=1802202
 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

On Sep 26, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Knowles Rich  wrote:

> A couple of us are contemplating purchasing solar panels to act as trickle 
> chargers over the winter. One of our local retailers is selling Coleman brand 
> panels of various capacities and physical sizes at reasonable prices. Has 
> anyone any experience with the Coleman product, other than the good old camp 
> stove and lanterns?
> 
> Any other suggestions for good solar panels?
> 
> Rich Knowles
> INDIGO LF38
> Halifax, NS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com