Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Yes!

I don’t understand why you would drill out a hole oversize, and lose the 
strength and structure the fiberglass provides, leaving just some epoxy only 
held on by a thin bond attached to the edge.  It isn’t that hard to pick out 
the balsa with a pick, or Allen key like Dave suggests. Granted, you may have 
backing plates going past the edges, but it still doesn’t seem right to remove 
good fiberglass structure.

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: Dave S via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:04 AM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Hoyt, Mike; Dave S
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

 

 another trick to removing core is using a ground down Allen key chucked in a 
drill, working from above. 

 

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2019/07/deck-fill-core-removal-and-reinforcement.html?m=1

 

To keep the epoxy in place make sure you use lots of colloidal silica in the 
mix.

 

Dave 

Windstar 33-2

 

Sent from my iPhone





On Feb 17, 2021, at 8:16 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

Put tape on the underside to cover the holes before filling with thickened 
epoxy.  Then once cured drill appropriate sized hole in the epoxy for the 
fastener.

 

Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS

 

From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List  
Sent: February 16, 2021 7:26 PM
To: Matthew via CnC-List 
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker 
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

 

Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put some 
tape under the glob?

Ron

Wild Cheri

C 30-1

STL

 

 

On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew via CnC-List 
 wrote: 

 

 

Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being hidden by the track, a 
trick I like to use is to drill up from underneath and stop when the bit 
encounters the underside of the deck.  The result is that the hole on the deck 
surface stays the same size.  In addition, you know precisely where to place 
the deck fitting and drill the new hole.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

 plastic bristles, which do not fall off during 
> > > > application – but instead I decided to tape the entire hole underneath 
> > > > with Gorilla tape.  I then filled the hole with epoxy, went down below 
> > > > and removed the tape while using a container to catch the epoxy 
> > > > draining out, used the same epoxy for the colloidal silica mix, then 
> > > > troweled the mix back into the deck core area where the wood had been 
> > > > removed.  There was no doubt about wetting the surface using this 
> > > > method.  The colloidal silica mix was a mayonnaise consistency and did 
> > > > not need support underneath while it cured.  When the mixture cured, I 
> > > > used one of those round sanding drums that go into your drill to smooth 
> > > > the cured surface, then installed the new deck fills.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > If you’re just doing bolt holes, on the other hand, no 
> > > > need for colloidal silica and all that fuss – just tape underneath and 
> > > > pour straight West System.  Use the slow hardener, and MAKE SURE THE 
> > > > TAPE FULLY COVERS THE HOLE AND IS ON FIRMLY (or you will have a big 
> > > > mess on your hands).  You’ll lose a little volume after the pour as the 
> > > > epoxy works its way into the wood core.  I usually go back and top it 
> > > > off.  If you lose a lot of epoxy, something is wrong – check the tape.  
> > > > If there is no leak at the tape, some internal communication is going 
> > > > on.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Good luck.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Matt
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  > > > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 8:16 AM
> > > > To: 'Stus-List'  > > > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > > > Cc: Hoyt, Mike  > > > mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com >
> > > > Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Put tape on the underside to cover the holes before 
> > > > filling with thickened epoxy.  Then once cured drill appropriate sized 
> > > > hole in the epoxy for the fastener.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Mike Hoyt
> > > > 
> > > > Persistence
> > > > 
> > > > Halifax, NS
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
> > > > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > > > Sent: February 16, 2021 7:26 PM
> > > > To: Matthew via CnC-List  > > > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > > > Cc: Ronald B. Frerker  > > > mailto:rbfrer...@yahoo.com >
> > > > Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place 
> > > > until you can put some tape under the glob?
> > > > 
> > > > Ron
> > > > 
> > > > Wild Cheri
> > > > 
> > > > C 30-1
> > > > 
> > > > STL
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew 
> > > > via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being 
> > > > hidden by the track, a trick I like to use is to drill up from 
> > > > underneath and stop when the bit encounters the underside of the deck.  
> > > > The result is that the hole on the deck surface stays the same size.  
> > > > In addition, you know precisely where to place the deck fitting and 
> > > > drill the new hole.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to 
> > > > the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your 
> > > > support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
> > > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> > > > 
> > > > > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that 
> > > > contributed to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want 
> > > > to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
> > > >  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
> > > 
> > > > > 
> >  
> > --
> > Joel
> > 
> > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
> > Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks 
> > - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

 February 17, 2021 8:16 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

Put tape on the underside to cover the holes before filling with thickened 
epoxy.  Then once cured drill appropriate sized hole in the epoxy for the 
fastener.

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: February 16, 2021 7:26 PM
To: Matthew via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker mailto:rbfrer...@yahoo.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put some 
tape under the glob?
Ron
Wild Cheri
C 30-1
STL


On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being hidden by the track, a 
trick I like to use is to drill up from underneath and stop when the bit 
encounters the underside of the deck.  The result is that the hole on the deck 
surface stays the same size.  In addition, you know precisely where to place 
the deck fitting and drill the new hole.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%2Fstumurray=04%7C01%7C%7C4345eb19c52c4e9664ad08d8d3647031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637491775618793426%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=lw7M7ECL%2B1gQN%2BDapkkn6H5N0YIgvWuJ9XMB6sDG2ww%3D=0>
 Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%2Fstumurray=04%7C01%7C%7C4345eb19c52c4e9664ad08d8d3647031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637491775618793426%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=lw7M7ECL%2B1gQN%2BDapkkn6H5N0YIgvWuJ9XMB6sDG2ww%3D=0>
  Thanks - Stu


--
Joel

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%2Fstumurray=04%7C01%7C%7C4345eb19c52c4e9664ad08d8d3647031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637491775618803381%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=SFbfi3g%2BsycK5TAfzbK%2Fu5HwJII3ohjDiRk3%2FgdAnvM%3D=0>
  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

I used Six10 on my keel joint at West's recommendation. Haven't hauled yet
to see how it has held up, but it seemed to work well enough. A bit
difficult to work with, but I don't have much experience with epoxy. I use
it without the mixing nozzles for small jobs, including some holes in the
deck, but I noticed it is still not quite thick enough to prevent levelling
out, so I had to tape a plastic piece over the top to keep it flush with
the deck.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 8:34 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> There is a West equivalent to the Thixo Flex.  Also fits in a caulking
> gun.  I believe it is 610.  Same nozzles.A couple bucks more, but available
> most places that sell West.
>
> Joel
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:08 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Learned these things the hard way:
>>
>> The *3M heavy duty shipping tape* is a great product and available
>> everywhere and doesn't leave a residue like duct tape.  After the epoxy
>> cures, it peels right off and will leave the final surface smooth.
>>
>> If you use *404 High Density Filler* instead of 406, you'll find it is
>> heavier than air and doesn't blow around like 406.  The same when sanding,
>> the dust falls instead of blowing into your lungs or onto the neighbor's
>> boat.
>>
>> A small *wet vac* is a must on the boat for any of this work.  I like a
>> 6 gallon with big strong motor like 4.5HP peak and I add the extra long
>> hose.  I glued a piece of carpet to the bottom so it doesn't scuff the deck
>> or cabin sole.  I keep a paper bag in it and I can position the machine in
>> the middle of the boat and reach from bow to stern.  Be mindful where the
>> exhaust is pointed.
>>
>> Another great product I started using is *Thixo Flex*, a flexible epoxy
>> in a caulking cartridge from Jamestown Distributers.  It provides a 45
>> minute working time and there's much less waste.  The two parts mix in the
>> nozzle and when you're done, you release the trigger and let the product
>> cure in the nozzle tip.  When you want to use it later, just change the
>> nozzle and start again.  Extra nozzles are cheap.
>>
>> Chuck S
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/17/2021 9:17 AM Matthew via CnC-List 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron:
>>
>>
>>
>> I have found that black Gorilla “duct” tape works well, although I may
>> try the 3M mailing tape someone suggested.  Also, if you are using West
>> System, before you put in an epoxy mixture (like colloidal silica), you are
>> supposed to “wet” the surrounding area first to ensure a strong bond.  (The
>> exception is cotton filler, which is not as strong but will weep epoxy into
>> the surrounding area.)  Wear a good filter mask when mixing colloidal
>> silica.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bigger, open holes are handled differently than bolt holes.  For example,
>> when I replaced my deck fills last year (about a 2 inch open hole), first I
>> removed some of the wood deck core exposed by the hole.  I could have
>> wetted the wood with a disposable paint brush -- I like the plastic
>> bristles, which do not fall off during application – but instead I decided
>> to tape the entire hole underneath with Gorilla tape.  I then filled the
>> hole with epoxy, went down below and removed the tape while using a
>> container to catch the epoxy draining out, used the same epoxy for the
>> colloidal silica mix, then troweled the mix back into the deck core area
>> where the wood had been removed.  There was no doubt about wetting the
>> surface using this method.  The colloidal silica mix was a mayonnaise
>> consistency and did not need support underneath while it cured.  When the
>> mixture cured, I used one of those round sanding drums that go into your
>> drill to smooth the cured surface, then installed the new deck fills.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you’re just doing bolt holes, on the other hand, no need for colloidal
>> silica and all that fuss – just tape underneath and pour straight West
>> System.  Use the slow hardener, and MAKE SURE THE TAPE FULLY COVERS THE
>> HOLE AND IS ON FIRMLY (or you will have a big mess on your hands).  You’ll
>> lose a little volume after the pour as the epoxy works its way into the
>> wood core.  I usually go back and top it off.  If you lose a lot of epoxy,
>> something is wrong – check the tape.  If there is no leak at the tape, some
>> internal communication is going on.
>>
>>
>>

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

There is a West equivalent to the Thixo Flex.  Also fits in a caulking
gun.  I believe it is 610.  Same nozzles.A couple bucks more, but available
most places that sell West.

Joel

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:08 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Learned these things the hard way:
>
> The *3M heavy duty shipping tape* is a great product and available
> everywhere and doesn't leave a residue like duct tape.  After the epoxy
> cures, it peels right off and will leave the final surface smooth.
>
> If you use *404 High Density Filler* instead of 406, you'll find it is
> heavier than air and doesn't blow around like 406.  The same when sanding,
> the dust falls instead of blowing into your lungs or onto the neighbor's
> boat.
>
> A small *wet vac* is a must on the boat for any of this work.  I like a 6
> gallon with big strong motor like 4.5HP peak and I add the extra long
> hose.  I glued a piece of carpet to the bottom so it doesn't scuff the deck
> or cabin sole.  I keep a paper bag in it and I can position the machine in
> the middle of the boat and reach from bow to stern.  Be mindful where the
> exhaust is pointed.
>
> Another great product I started using is *Thixo Flex*, a flexible epoxy
> in a caulking cartridge from Jamestown Distributers.  It provides a 45
> minute working time and there's much less waste.  The two parts mix in the
> nozzle and when you're done, you release the trigger and let the product
> cure in the nozzle tip.  When you want to use it later, just change the
> nozzle and start again.  Extra nozzles are cheap.
>
> Chuck S
>
>
>
> On 02/17/2021 9:17 AM Matthew via CnC-List  wrote:
>
>
>
> Ron:
>
>
>
> I have found that black Gorilla “duct” tape works well, although I may try
> the 3M mailing tape someone suggested.  Also, if you are using West System,
> before you put in an epoxy mixture (like colloidal silica), you are
> supposed to “wet” the surrounding area first to ensure a strong bond.  (The
> exception is cotton filler, which is not as strong but will weep epoxy into
> the surrounding area.)  Wear a good filter mask when mixing colloidal
> silica.
>
>
>
> Bigger, open holes are handled differently than bolt holes.  For example,
> when I replaced my deck fills last year (about a 2 inch open hole), first I
> removed some of the wood deck core exposed by the hole.  I could have
> wetted the wood with a disposable paint brush -- I like the plastic
> bristles, which do not fall off during application – but instead I decided
> to tape the entire hole underneath with Gorilla tape.  I then filled the
> hole with epoxy, went down below and removed the tape while using a
> container to catch the epoxy draining out, used the same epoxy for the
> colloidal silica mix, then troweled the mix back into the deck core area
> where the wood had been removed.  There was no doubt about wetting the
> surface using this method.  The colloidal silica mix was a mayonnaise
> consistency and did not need support underneath while it cured.  When the
> mixture cured, I used one of those round sanding drums that go into your
> drill to smooth the cured surface, then installed the new deck fills.
>
>
>
> If you’re just doing bolt holes, on the other hand, no need for colloidal
> silica and all that fuss – just tape underneath and pour straight West
> System.  Use the slow hardener, and MAKE SURE THE TAPE FULLY COVERS THE
> HOLE AND IS ON FIRMLY (or you will have a big mess on your hands).  You’ll
> lose a little volume after the pour as the epoxy works its way into the
> wood core.  I usually go back and top it off.  If you lose a lot of epoxy,
> something is wrong – check the tape.  If there is no leak at the tape, some
> internal communication is going on.
>
>
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2021 8:16 AM
> *To:* 'Stus-List' 
> *Cc:* Hoyt, Mike 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
>
>
>
> Put tape on the underside to cover the holes before filling with thickened
> epoxy.  Then once cured drill appropriate sized hole in the epoxy for the
> fastener.
>
>
>
> Mike Hoyt
>
> Persistence
>
> Halifax, NS
>
>
>
> *From:* Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* February 16, 2021 7:26 PM
> *To:* Matthew via CnC-List 
> *Cc:* Ronald B. Frerker 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
>
>
>
> Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put
> some tape under the glob?
>
> Ron
>
> Wild Cheri
>
> C 30-1
>
> STL
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew via Cn

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Learned these things the hard way:

The 3M heavy duty shipping tape is a great product and available everywhere and 
doesn't leave a residue like duct tape.  After the epoxy cures, it peels right 
off and will leave the final surface smooth.  

If you use 404 High Density Filler instead of 406, you'll find it is heavier 
than air and doesn't blow around like 406.  The same when sanding, the dust 
falls instead of blowing into your lungs or onto the neighbor's boat.  

A small wet vac is a must on the boat for any of this work.  I like a 6 gallon 
with big strong motor like 4.5HP peak and I add the extra long hose.  I glued a 
piece of carpet to the bottom so it doesn't scuff the deck or cabin sole.  I 
keep a paper bag in it and I can position the machine in the middle of the boat 
and reach from bow to stern.  Be mindful where the exhaust is pointed.

Another great product I started using is Thixo Flex, a flexible epoxy in a 
caulking cartridge from Jamestown Distributers.  It provides a 45 minute 
working time and there's much less waste.  The two parts mix in the nozzle and 
when you're done, you release the trigger and let the product cure in the 
nozzle tip.  When you want to use it later, just change the nozzle and start 
again.  Extra nozzles are cheap.  

Chuck S



> On 02/17/2021 9:17 AM Matthew via CnC-List  wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> Ron:
> 
>  
> 
> I have found that black Gorilla “duct” tape works well, although I may 
> try the 3M mailing tape someone suggested.  Also, if you are using West 
> System, before you put in an epoxy mixture (like colloidal silica), you are 
> supposed to “wet” the surrounding area first to ensure a strong bond.  (The 
> exception is cotton filler, which is not as strong but will weep epoxy into 
> the surrounding area.)  Wear a good filter mask when mixing colloidal silica.
> 
>  
> 
> Bigger, open holes are handled differently than bolt holes.  For example, 
> when I replaced my deck fills last year (about a 2 inch open hole), first I 
> removed some of the wood deck core exposed by the hole.  I could have wetted 
> the wood with a disposable paint brush -- I like the plastic bristles, which 
> do not fall off during application – but instead I decided to tape the entire 
> hole underneath with Gorilla tape.  I then filled the hole with epoxy, went 
> down below and removed the tape while using a container to catch the epoxy 
> draining out, used the same epoxy for the colloidal silica mix, then troweled 
> the mix back into the deck core area where the wood had been removed.  There 
> was no doubt about wetting the surface using this method.  The colloidal 
> silica mix was a mayonnaise consistency and did not need support underneath 
> while it cured.  When the mixture cured, I used one of those round sanding 
> drums that go into your drill to smooth the cured surface, then installed the 
> new deck fills.
> 
>  
> 
> If you’re just doing bolt holes, on the other hand, no need for colloidal 
> silica and all that fuss – just tape underneath and pour straight West 
> System.  Use the slow hardener, and MAKE SURE THE TAPE FULLY COVERS THE HOLE 
> AND IS ON FIRMLY (or you will have a big mess on your hands).  You’ll lose a 
> little volume after the pour as the epoxy works its way into the wood core.  
> I usually go back and top it off.  If you lose a lot of epoxy, something is 
> wrong – check the tape.  If there is no leak at the tape, some internal 
> communication is going on.
> 
>  
> 
> Good luck.
> 
>  
> 
> Matt
> 
>  
> 
>     From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 8:16 AM
> To: 'Stus-List' 
> Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
> 
>  
> 
> Put tape on the underside to cover the holes before filling with 
> thickened epoxy.  Then once cured drill appropriate sized hole in the epoxy 
> for the fastener.
> 
>  
> 
> Mike Hoyt
> 
> Persistence
> 
> Halifax, NS
> 
>  
> 
> From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> Sent: February 16, 2021 7:26 PM
> To: Matthew via CnC-List  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> Cc: Ronald B. Frerker mailto:rbfrer...@yahoo.com >
> Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
> 
>  
> 
> Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put 
> some tape under the glob?
> 
> Ron
> 
> Wild Cheri
> 
> C 30-1
> 
> STL
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
>  
> 
&

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Ron:

 

I have found that black Gorilla “duct” tape works well, although I may try the 
3M mailing tape someone suggested.  Also, if you are using West System, before 
you put in an epoxy mixture (like colloidal silica), you are supposed to “wet” 
the surrounding area first to ensure a strong bond.  (The exception is cotton 
filler, which is not as strong but will weep epoxy into the surrounding area.)  
Wear a good filter mask when mixing colloidal silica.

 

Bigger, open holes are handled differently than bolt holes.  For example, when 
I replaced my deck fills last year (about a 2 inch open hole), first I removed 
some of the wood deck core exposed by the hole.  I could have wetted the wood 
with a disposable paint brush -- I like the plastic bristles, which do not fall 
off during application – but instead I decided to tape the entire hole 
underneath with Gorilla tape.  I then filled the hole with epoxy, went down 
below and removed the tape while using a container to catch the epoxy draining 
out, used the same epoxy for the colloidal silica mix, then troweled the mix 
back into the deck core area where the wood had been removed.  There was no 
doubt about wetting the surface using this method.  The colloidal silica mix 
was a mayonnaise consistency and did not need support underneath while it 
cured.  When the mixture cured, I used one of those round sanding drums that go 
into your drill to smooth the cured surface, then installed the new deck fills.

 

If you’re just doing bolt holes, on the other hand, no need for colloidal 
silica and all that fuss – just tape underneath and pour straight West System.  
Use the slow hardener, and MAKE SURE THE TAPE FULLY COVERS THE HOLE AND IS ON 
FIRMLY (or you will have a big mess on your hands).  You’ll lose a little 
volume after the pour as the epoxy works its way into the wood core.  I usually 
go back and top it off.  If you lose a lot of epoxy, something is wrong – check 
the tape.  If there is no leak at the tape, some internal communication is 
going on.

 

Good luck. 

 

Matt

 

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 8:16 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

 

Put tape on the underside to cover the holes before filling with thickened 
epoxy.  Then once cured drill appropriate sized hole in the epoxy for the 
fastener.

 

Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS

 

From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: February 16, 2021 7:26 PM
To: Matthew via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker mailto:rbfrer...@yahoo.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

 

Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put some 
tape under the glob?

Ron

Wild Cheri

C 30-1

STL

 

 

On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew via CnC-List < 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: 

 

 

Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being hidden by the track, a 
trick I like to use is to drill up from underneath and stop when the bit 
encounters the underside of the deck.  The result is that the hole on the deck 
surface stays the same size.  In addition, you know precisely where to place 
the deck fitting and drill the new hole.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Dave S via CnC-List]

 another trick to removing core is using a ground down Allen key chucked in a 
drill, working from above. 

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2019/07/deck-fill-core-removal-and-reinforcement.html?m=1

To keep the epoxy in place make sure you use lots of colloidal silica in the 
mix.

Dave 
Windstar 33-2


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 17, 2021, at 8:16 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Put tape on the underside to cover the holes before filling with thickened 
> epoxy.  Then once cured drill appropriate sized hole in the epoxy for the 
> fastener.
>  
> Mike Hoyt
> Persistence
> Halifax, NS
>  
> From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List  
> Sent: February 16, 2021 7:26 PM
> To: Matthew via CnC-List 
> Cc: Ronald B. Frerker 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
>  
> Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put some 
> tape under the glob?
> Ron
> Wild Cheri
> C 30-1
> STL
>  
>  
> On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
>  
>  
> Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being hidden by the track, a 
> trick I like to use is to drill up from underneath and stop when the bit 
> encounters the underside of the deck.  The result is that the hole on the 
> deck surface stays the same size.  In addition, you know precisely where to 
> place the deck fitting and drill the new hole.
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Put tape on the underside to cover the holes before filling with thickened 
epoxy.  Then once cured drill appropriate sized hole in the epoxy for the 
fastener.

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
Sent: February 16, 2021 7:26 PM
To: Matthew via CnC-List 
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker 
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put some 
tape under the glob?
Ron
Wild Cheri
C 30-1
STL


On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being hidden by the track, a 
trick I like to use is to drill up from underneath and stop when the bit 
encounters the underside of the deck.  The result is that the hole on the deck 
surface stays the same size.  In addition, you know precisely where to place 
the deck fitting and drill the new hole.
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Hey Ron,
3M Heavy Duty clear Shipping Tape; Walmart, CVS, most anywhere.  Clean surface 
first with a solvent like acetone, let dry before applying tape.  Works great.  
If the hole is bigger than 3/4", apply a second piece like a cross.  When you 
remove the tape, the hole will be flush and smooth.  

I use West Epoxy and 404 high density filler cause it's offwhite and stronger 
than the others.

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 34R, near Annapolis

> On 02/16/2021 9:46 PM Martin DeYoung via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> Ron,  as part of Calypso’s way too long restoration project we have 
> filled over 250 deck holes with different viscosities of epoxy.
> 
>  
> 
> In short we found most tapes to provide poor sealing of the hole allowing 
> lower viscosity epoxy to drip/ooze out.  Early on in our learning process I 
> had lots of epoxy in my hair.
> 
>  
> 
> -Use a thick (high viscosity) 5 minute epoxy to seal the bottom of the 
> hole.  Works great but you will need to watch for bubbles forming in the hole.
> 
> -Use a wide packing tape on smooth surfaces.  Has worked well with epoxy 
> made thick with Cabosil and other fillers, both high and low density.  We 
> used ground glass fibers for holes that would not be used again.  For holes 
> that needed small repairs and sealing prior to being re-used we would pick a 
> West Systems low density filler like 407 or 410.  For particularly structural 
> hole repairs we cut round pieces of glass cloth to help fill the holes.
> 
> -use a small piece of mylar or similar “slippery” film and a quick drying 
> masking compound.  I got our mylar and masking compound from electrical 
> manufacturing sources back when I was involved with that industry.  If you 
> are interested I will look up the manufacturer of the masking compound.
> 
>  
> 
> For blind holes, thicken epoxy can be forced up with the same squeeze 
> tube used by cake decorators.  Get the thicker film type.  A quick hack is to 
> use a zip-lock bag and cut out the corner.
> 
>  
> 
> To avoid boring those listers not excited about mixing epoxy, let me know 
> if you want to dig deeper into the topic of the epoxy hole filling arts 
> offline.
> 
>  
> 
> Martin DeYoung
> 
> Calypso
> 
> 1971 C 43
> 
> Now Seattle
> 
> Soon Port Ludlow (after 2 months in the Port Townsend yard for paint)
> 
>  
> 
> From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>     Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 3:26 PM
> To: Matthew via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Ronald B. Frerker mailto:rbfrer...@yahoo.com
> Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
> 
>  
> 
> Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put 
> some tape under the glob?
> 
> Ron
> 
> Wild Cheri
> 
> C 30-1
> 
> STL
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

Ron,  as part of Calypso’s way too long restoration project we have filled over 
250 deck holes with different viscosities of epoxy.

In short we found most tapes to provide poor sealing of the hole allowing lower 
viscosity epoxy to drip/ooze out.  Early on in our learning process I had lots 
of epoxy in my hair.

-Use a thick (high viscosity) 5 minute epoxy to seal the bottom of the hole.  
Works great but you will need to watch for bubbles forming in the hole.
-Use a wide packing tape on smooth surfaces.  Has worked well with epoxy made 
thick with Cabosil and other fillers, both high and low density.  We used 
ground glass fibers for holes that would not be used again.  For holes that 
needed small repairs and sealing prior to being re-used we would pick a West 
Systems low density filler like 407 or 410.  For particularly structural hole 
repairs we cut round pieces of glass cloth to help fill the holes.
-use a small piece of mylar or similar “slippery” film and a quick drying 
masking compound.  I got our mylar and masking compound from electrical 
manufacturing sources back when I was involved with that industry.  If you are 
interested I will look up the manufacturer of the masking compound.

For blind holes, thicken epoxy can be forced up with the same squeeze tube used 
by cake decorators.  Get the thicker film type.  A quick hack is to use a 
zip-lock bag and cut out the corner.

To avoid boring those listers not excited about mixing epoxy, let me know if 
you want to dig deeper into the topic of the epoxy hole filling arts offline.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Now Seattle
Soon Port Ludlow (after 2 months in the Port Townsend yard for paint)

From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 3:26 PM
To: Matthew via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker<mailto:rbfrer...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put some 
tape under the glob?
Ron
Wild Cheri
C 30-1
STL

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 Do you do anything special to keep the epoxy in place until you can put some 
tape under the glob?RonWild CheriC 30-1STL

On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 01:31:10 PM CST, Matthew via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 
Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being hidden by the track, a 
trick I like to use is to drill up from underneath and stop when the bit 
encounters the underside of the deck.  The result is that the hole on the deck 
surface stays the same size.  In addition, you know precisely where to place 
the deck fitting and drill the new hole.
  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

I got tracks on my 35 MKII. I will send a pic when i uncover in sting. If
you remind e

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 12:47 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Our 35-2 has track, but it is too short for either the 95 jib or the genoa
> (which is currently on toerail), so I am looking to add a longer track. I
> am curious how you arrived at the measurements? Based on the foot length of
> the sail? Were they done on paper, or with the actual sail on the boat?
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:17 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my area we used to
>> race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe rail for.  When
>> I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, the clew comes
>> down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I already
>> severely bent the port lifeline last year.
>>
>> Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so I'll be
>> using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the deck.
>> I've been given these locations for adding track:
>> *Inline tracks*
>> Front 20.0 aft of tack
>> Back 26.6 aft of tack
>> Front off center line 3.5
>> Back off center line  4.1
>>
>> *Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house*
>> *130 %  Transverse*
>> 19.5 Aft of jib tack
>>
>> *155% Transverse*
>> 23.1  aft of tack
>>
>> I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to the toe
>> rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday it will
>> be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).
>>
>> What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be straight,
>> if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with Garhauer
>> adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have two months
>> to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
>>
>> Bob Mann
>> Mystic
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
>> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> Thanks - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

I like this trick; I did the opposite when drilling for new midship cleats,
and the over drilled hole is just barely hidden. I will try this method
next time, at least where clearance below allows for it.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 11:14 AM Matthew via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being hidden by the track,
> a trick I like to use is to drill up from underneath and stop when the bit
> encounters the underside of the deck.  The result is that the hole on the
> deck surface stays the same size.  In addition, you know precisely where to
> place the deck fitting and drill the new hole.
>
>
>
> *From:* Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 24, 2021 12:44 PM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Dennis C. 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck
>
>
>
> IMHO, I think there are three tricks to mounting genoa or jib tracks.
>
>
>
> 1. Cut away the headliner so the backing plate is against the underside of
> the deck.  I've seen too many folks simply crush the headliner against the
> underdecking.
>
>
>
> 2.  Make sure the backing plate(s) is adequately thick and wide.  If not,
> the loads will pull the plate into the underdeck and the track will loosen
> then leak.
>
>
>
> 3. Use a BIG overbore and fill.
>
>
>
> I recommend a fairly large overbore and fill.  Normally, for a deck
> fitting, I would overbore 1 or 2 drill bit sizes.  For a genoa or jib
> track, I would drill a fairly big hole that would still be hidden by the
> track.  A plug of thickened epoxy will handle much more compression loading
> than a cored deck.  So you can really tighten down the fasteners.  Tighten
> them snugly then come back 24 hours later and really tighten them!
>
>   --
>
> Dennis C.
>
> Touche' 35-1 #83
>
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 11:18 AM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> +1 on Chuck's thoughts.
>
>
>
> You will add many sources of leaks with the tracks--been there and done
> that.
>
>
>
> I would try a ring solution first--no holes required. If it doesn't work
> like you prefer, then get out the drill and butyl tape!
>
>
>
> Charlie Nelson
>
> Water Phantom
>
> 1995 C XL/kcb
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

Dwight,

I was going ask the same question as Chuck.  My 35 Mk2 is old school, no 
roller furler racing genoas, but does have a cruising roller furl #2. 
All racing genoas are deck sweepers and are lead inboard of the 
lifelines which requires on each tack that the foredeck "skirts" the 
sails. I usually point high and try to find the slot where the foresails 
telltales are just barely lifting. Seems to work against most boats and 
we get to the mark in good shape.  But I do note your statement about 
keel shape, since Fireball has a keel a little over 6'  (1.98m) and a 
for-to-aft longer rudder by 2".  Also her "E" is 11.65' (3.55m) so the 
boat really drives off her genoas and the main is secondary.


Don Kern
/Fireball, /C Mk2
Bristol, RI



On 1/24/2021 3:24 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

Hi Dwight,
Do you ever trim the genoa so that it is entirely inside the lifelines?
Chuck S
On 01/24/2021 7:38 AM dwight veinot via CnC-List 
 wrote:
The beam of the Mk I is the same as the beam of my Mk II at 10.5 
feet. A high cut clew will help but the sheets will still chafe hard 
on the life lines under some points of sail. My boat has inboard 
genoa tracks but there is a limit on how close you can sail to 
apparent wind angle (point) and still be fast from point A to B 
upwind. You will be able to sail higher in light air, say below 10kts 
apparent but as wind speed increases footing off will pay off. The 
design mainly because of keel and hull shape I believe does not point 
as well as some newer designs. Besides the lifeline issue you need to 
consider the shrouds. The Mk I has for and aft lowers with not much 
distance between the uppers and the toe rail.


On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 11:16 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:


My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks. In my area we
used to race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the
toe rail for.  When I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe
rail.  However, the clew comes down just aft of a stantion and
gets caught on the lifeline; I already severely bent the port
lifeline last year.
Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so
I'll be using that sail more often. All-around, time to add
tracks to the deck.  I've been given these locations for adding
track:
*Inline tracks*
Front 20.0 aft of tack
Back 26.6 aft of tack
Front off center line 3.5
Back off center line  4.1

*Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house*
*130 %  Transverse*
19.5 Aft of jib tack

*155% Transverse*
23.1  aft of tack
I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to
the toe rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on
Saturday it will be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).
What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be
straight, if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be
going with Garhauer adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or
suggestions?  I have two months to plan and install as I won't
launch until late April.
Bob Mann
Mystic
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to
help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support
to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks - Stu 


--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list 
- use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

Shawn,
I answered Bob's email and added a drawing of my deck layout - of course 
it was too big and got rejected. Below are the two emails that were sent 
directly to Bob and a Dropbox url with the files (first time for 
dropbox) Let me know if you can't view them.  I also revised that the 
boat carries the spin pole inboard of the shrouds, making it easier to 
get to the mast - don't have to go fwd of shrouds to get onto the mast.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/24jj19inocsyijl/AABdveccl-YBav2UPFiJEngxa?dl=0
Bob,  (original message was too big for stu's list)

Your pointing angle is not as tight as it could be going to the toe rail.
I have a 1974 C 35 Mk2 which is slightly longer. but has a similar 
shroud arrangement.  The boat was originally set up by the factory & 
Hood for a campaign.  I use to have a 155, but my No.1 now is a 148, 
No.2 132, no.3 120.  The tracks (per side) are two straight sections of 
1.25 which angle slightly from inboard (fwd) to outboard (aft).  The fwd 
end is approx 2" from cabin, the joint between the tracks is approx 2" 
from cabin and the aft end is 3" from the toe rail.  They run from just 
fwd of the aft lower to a little fwd of the fwd cockpit winch   I also 
use two twin sheet lead blocks each side which serve two purposes: to 
correctly lead two sails during sail change, and the ability to take the 
lazy sheet and lead to thru correct block to the secondary winch when 
there are over-wraps on the main winch.  Can send you pictures if you 
want. Remember Defenders March sales.


Don Kern

Bob
On 01/24/2021 1:24 AM Donald Kern  wrote:
Thanks Don.
Also curious what the cabin interior looks like from all these bolts.
My wife still thinks the boat is part family boat and not just a racer 
so I try to keep the interior looking nice.

Bob
Bob,

Like I said this was a factory install.  Thus, the track is backed by a 
stock aluminum bar between the headliner and deck.  The headliner had 
3/4" holes drilled below each bolt/nut. Make sure the bolts are close to 
flush with the nuts.  Bought a bag of 50 Plastic Hole Plugs to fill the 
holes.  I spray painted them flat white and also pulled down and painted 
all the overhead circular covers for the deck winches & cleats. The 
covers are original and had become discolored (yellowed) with age and 
the ss screws had rusted slightly onto the plastic.  Overhead looks much 
better now. Fireball is also a cruiser, though she is raced hard, ie: 
Fall Off Soundings.


Plugs are still available at "dangoodbuy":
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Plastic-Hole-Plugs-To-Fit-3-4-Opening-Translucent-White-Nylon/251487228379?hash=item3a8dce91db:g:MCEAAOxydUJTM1Cj 



Don Kern
/Fireball/, C Mk2
Bristol, RI

On 1/24/2021 11:46 AM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List wrote:
Our 35-2 has track, but it is too short for either the 95 jib or the 
genoa (which is currently on toerail), so I am looking to add a longer 
track. I am curious how you arrived at the measurements? Based on the 
foot length of the sail? Were they done on paper, or with the actual 
sail on the boat?


--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com 
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto 




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Nathan Post via CnC-List]

It is also possible with a balsa core to pick out the core with a bent wire or 
other steel curved hook going into the side wall of the hole so you don’t have 
to over drill from either side.  You have to make sure you get it all so the 
epoxy will seal the core.  Hard to do with a small <1/4” hole but i have 
managed for 5/16 and works well on 3/8 and larger.  Then put tape on the bottom 
and fill with epoxy and redrill when cured.  Useful when you can’t get a drill 
to the underside and don’t want to overdrill the top as discussed.

Nathan Post
S/V Wisper
Lynn MA USA
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costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
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Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Hi Dwight,

Do you ever trim the genoa so that it is entirely inside the lifelines?

Chuck S

> On 01/24/2021 7:38 AM dwight veinot via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> The beam of the Mk I is the same as the beam of my Mk II at 10.5 feet. A 
> high cut clew will help but the sheets will still chafe hard on the life 
> lines under some points of sail. My boat has inboard genoa tracks but there 
> is a limit on how close you can sail to apparent wind angle (point) and still 
> be fast from point A to B upwind. You will be able to sail higher in light 
> air, say below 10kts apparent but as wind speed increases footing off will 
> pay off. The design mainly because of keel and hull shape I believe does not 
> point as well as some newer designs. Besides the lifeline issue you need to 
> consider the shrouds. The Mk I has for and aft lowers with not much distance 
> between the uppers and the toe rail. 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 11:16 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my 
> area we used to race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe 
> rail for.  When I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, 
> the clew comes down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I 
> already severely bent the port lifeline last year.
> >  
> > Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so 
> > I'll be using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the 
> > deck.  I've been given these locations for adding track:
> > Inline tracks
> > Front 20.0 aft of tack
> > Back 26.6 aft of tack
> > Front off center line 3.5
> > Back off center line  4.1
> > 
> > Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house
> > 130 %  Transverse
> > 19.5 Aft of jib tack
> > 
> > 155% Transverse 
> > 23.1  aft of tack
> >  
> > I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to 
> > the toe rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday 
> > it will be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).  
> >  
> > What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be 
> > straight, if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with 
> > Garhauer adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have 
> > two months to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
> >  
> > Bob Mann
> > Mystic
> > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
> > Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Regarding Dennis’ comment about overbored holes being hidden by the track, a 
trick I like to use is to drill up from underneath and stop when the bit 
encounters the underside of the deck.  The result is that the hole on the deck 
surface stays the same size.  In addition, you know precisely where to place 
the deck fitting and drill the new hole.

 

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List  
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2021 12:44 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

 

IMHO, I think there are three tricks to mounting genoa or jib tracks.

 

1. Cut away the headliner so the backing plate is against the underside of the 
deck.  I've seen too many folks simply crush the headliner against the 
underdecking.

 

2.  Make sure the backing plate(s) is adequately thick and wide.  If not, the 
loads will pull the plate into the underdeck and the track will loosen then 
leak.

 

3. Use a BIG overbore and fill.

 

I recommend a fairly large overbore and fill.  Normally, for a deck fitting, I 
would overbore 1 or 2 drill bit sizes.  For a genoa or jib track, I would drill 
a fairly big hole that would still be hidden by the track.  A plug of thickened 
epoxy will handle much more compression loading than a cored deck.  So you can 
really tighten down the fasteners.  Tighten them snugly then come back 24 hours 
later and really tighten them!

  -- 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 11:18 AM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

+1 on Chuck's thoughts. 

 

You will add many sources of leaks with the tracks--been there and done that.

 

I would try a ring solution first--no holes required. If it doesn't work like 
you prefer, then get out the drill and butyl tape!

 

Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom

1995 C XL/kcb 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

IMHO, I think there are three tricks to mounting genoa or jib tracks.

1. Cut away the headliner so the backing plate is against the underside of
the deck.  I've seen too many folks simply crush the headliner against the
underdecking.

2.  Make sure the backing plate(s) is adequately thick and wide.  If not,
the loads will pull the plate into the underdeck and the track will loosen
then leak.

3. Use a BIG overbore and fill.

I recommend a fairly large overbore and fill.  Normally, for a deck
fitting, I would overbore 1 or 2 drill bit sizes.  For a genoa or jib
track, I would drill a fairly big hole that would still be hidden by the
track.  A plug of thickened epoxy will handle much more compression loading
than a cored deck.  So you can really tighten down the fasteners.  Tighten
them snugly then come back 24 hours later and really tighten them!
  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 11:18 AM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> +1 on Chuck's thoughts.
>
> You will add many sources of leaks with the tracks--been there and done
> that.
>
> I would try a ring solution first--no holes required. If it doesn't work
> like you prefer, then get out the drill and butyl tape!
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> 1995 C XL/kcb
>
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Bob,

If you install the inner tracks, I suggest you make up an "outer sheet" (or
Barber hauler or whatever folks want to call it).  Touche's is a length of
line with a snap shackle on the end.

I rig it to the toe rail with a snatch block just a bit forward of where
the primary sheet crosses over the toe rail.  Rigging it slightly forward
will reduce twist as the sail is eased.  Run it outside the lifelines and
clip the snap shackle to the clew of the headsail.  I then take the outer
sheet to the secondary winch.  As soon as the primary sheet begins to bend
over the lifeline, I take tension on the outer sheet and ease the primary
sheet.  It opens the slot and improves speed slightly.  You can play the
two sheets to move the clew in or out.  Our boats like to "breathe".

The snap shackle makes it easy to remove if you need to tack.
-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

+1 on Chuck's thoughts.
You will add many sources of leaks with the tracks--been there and done that.
I would try a ring solution first--no holes required. If it doesn't work like 
you prefer, then get out the drill and butyl tape!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C XL/kcb 


-Original Message-
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bob Mann ; CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Sent: Sat, Jan 23, 2021 11:33 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

  I imagine the toerail block isn't giving you the sheeting angle you want and 
that's why you want to add a track          I'd look into using  Low Friction 
Rings and avoid adding tracks.  They've gotten the strength up on the rings and 
race boats are using these instead of blocks on tracks.  They reduce the number 
of fasteners and holes through the deck,   saves weight, saves cost, and 
provides the most adjustment possible.  You can keep the toerail block and add 
one low friction ring as an "In-Hauler" on the sheet located between the clew 
and the toerail block with a couple of smaller control lines running to jam 
cleats to position the ring higher/lower and in/out.  I think they even make a 
snatchblock style ring that might work better, as you can remove the inhauler 
when you want to pole out the genoa.       You got me thinking.  I removed my 
deck hardware to paint the deck and now I am considering if I could install a 
friction ring system and leave the tracks off.  I'm gonna check my catalogs and 
check the loads involved and get back to you.       Thanks,   Chuck Scheaffer, 
Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md                   
  On 01/23/2021 10:16 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List  wrote:   
        My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my area we used 
to race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe rail for.  When 
I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, the clew comes down 
just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I already severely bent 
the port lifeline last year.       Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max 
genoa size in '21 so I'll be using that sail more often.  All-around, time to 
add tracks to the deck.  I've been given these locations for adding track:   
Inline tracks  Front 20.0 aft of tack   Back 26.6 aft of tack   Front off 
center line 3.5   Back off center line  4.1  
 Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house 
 130 %  Transverse  19.5 Aft of jib tack  
 155% Transverse   23.1  aft of tack       I've been successful in Wednesday 
night races running the 167% to the toe rail and can continue to do so.  
However, for OD races on Saturday it will be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet 
own).         What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be 
straight, if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with 
Garhauer adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have two 
months to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.       Bob Mann   
Mystic   Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

The measurements I listed were provided by a sailmaker.  He's been in the 
business for decades.  I talked with him several years ago about using rings 
and athwartship tracks, which is why those measurements were included.  I never 
did include tracks, but now it has become more important.

Bob

> On 01/24/2021 11:46 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> Our 35-2 has track, but it is too short for either the 95 jib or the 
> genoa (which is currently on toerail), so I am looking to add a longer track. 
> I am curious how you arrived at the measurements? Based on the foot length of 
> the sail? Were they done on paper, or with the actual sail on the boat?
> 
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
> 
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:17 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my 
> area we used to race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe 
> rail for.  When I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, 
> the clew comes down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I 
> already severely bent the port lifeline last year.
> >  
> > Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so 
> > I'll be using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the 
> > deck.  I've been given these locations for adding track:
> > Inline tracks
> > Front 20.0 aft of tack
> > Back 26.6 aft of tack
> > Front off center line 3.5
> > Back off center line  4.1
> > 
> > Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house
> > 130 %  Transverse
> > 19.5 Aft of jib tack
> > 
> > 155% Transverse 
> > 23.1  aft of tack
> >  
> > I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to 
> > the toe rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday 
> > it will be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).  
> >  
> > What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be 
> > straight, if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with 
> > Garhauer adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have 
> > two months to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
> >  
> > Bob Mann
> > Mystic
> > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
> > Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks 
> > - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Our 35-2 has track, but it is too short for either the 95 jib or the genoa
(which is currently on toerail), so I am looking to add a longer track. I
am curious how you arrived at the measurements? Based on the foot length of
the sail? Were they done on paper, or with the actual sail on the boat?

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:17 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my area we used to
> race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe rail for.  When
> I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, the clew comes
> down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I already
> severely bent the port lifeline last year.
>
> Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so I'll be
> using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the deck.
> I've been given these locations for adding track:
> *Inline tracks*
> Front 20.0 aft of tack
> Back 26.6 aft of tack
> Front off center line 3.5
> Back off center line  4.1
>
> *Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house*
> *130 %  Transverse*
> 19.5 Aft of jib tack
>
> *155% Transverse*
> 23.1  aft of tack
>
> I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to the toe
> rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday it will
> be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).
>
> What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be straight,
> if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with Garhauer
> adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have two months
> to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
>
> Bob Mann
> Mystic
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Tracks often lead to leaks. Rings sound like a good idea

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 12:33 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I imagine the toerail block isn't giving you the sheeting angle you want
> and that's why you want to add a track
>
> I'd look into using  Low Friction Rings and avoid adding tracks.  They've
> gotten the strength up on the rings and race boats are using these instead
> of blocks on tracks.  They reduce the number of fasteners and holes through
> the deck,   saves weight, saves cost, and provides the most adjustment
> possible.  You can keep the toerail block and add one low friction ring as
> an "In-Hauler" on the sheet located between the clew and the toerail block
> with a couple of smaller control lines running to jam cleats to position
> the ring higher/lower and in/out.  I think they even make a snatchblock
> style ring that might work better, as you can remove the inhauler when you
> want to pole out the genoa.
>
> You got me thinking.  I removed my deck hardware to paint the deck and now
> I am considering if I could install a friction ring system and leave the
> tracks off.  I'm gonna check my catalogs and check the loads involved and
> get back to you.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md
>
>
>
>
>
> On 01/23/2021 10:16 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my area we used to
> race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe rail for.  When
> I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, the clew comes
> down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I already
> severely bent the port lifeline last year.
>
> Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so I'll be
> using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the deck.
> I've been given these locations for adding track:
> *Inline tracks*
> Front 20.0 aft of tack
> Back 26.6 aft of tack
> Front off center line 3.5
> Back off center line  4.1
>
> *Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house*
> *130 %  Transverse*
> 19.5 Aft of jib tack
>
> *155% Transverse*
> 23.1  aft of tack
>
> I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to the toe
> rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday it will
> be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).
>
> What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be straight,
> if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with Garhauer
> adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have two months
> to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
>
> Bob Mann
> Mystic
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks -
> Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Bob,

I use that track for my 155% and 125% headsails.  I use a small track by
the shrouds for a 95%.

I'll send you more pics off list.
  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 8:57 AM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I'm also curious what cabin interiors look like where all the track bolts
> have come through.  If you have pictures, feel free to email me directly.
>
> Bob
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

I'm also curious what cabin interiors look like where all the track bolts have 
come through.  If you have pictures, feel free to email me directly.

Bob

> On 01/23/2021 10:43 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> Before I switched to a furling 135% genoa, which I use for racing and 
> cruising, I raced with a 105% genoa. My tracks are right up against the 
> cabin, and run from just aft of the shrouds to just forward of the 
> companionway. With the 105, I got a PHRF rating of nine seconds more than 
> with a 155, and I pointed five degrees higher than everyone else in the 
> fleet. The slight decrease in speed was more than made up with the better 
> pointing angle and better handicap. The smaller genoa allowed me to sheet in 
> a lot closer, as it doesn't get blocked by the shrouds.
> 
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
> 
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:17 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my 
> area we used to race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe 
> rail for.  When I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, 
> the clew comes down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I 
> already severely bent the port lifeline last year.
> >  
> > Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so 
> > I'll be using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the 
> > deck.  I've been given these locations for adding track:
> > Inline tracks
> > Front 20.0 aft of tack
> > Back 26.6 aft of tack
> > Front off center line 3.5
> > Back off center line  4.1
> > 
> > Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house
> > 130 %  Transverse
> > 19.5 Aft of jib tack
> > 
> > 155% Transverse 
> > 23.1  aft of tack
> >  
> > I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to 
> > the toe rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday 
> > it will be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).  
> >  
> > What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be 
> > straight, if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with 
> > Garhauer adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have 
> > two months to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
> >  
> > Bob Mann
> > Mystic
> > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7VWs6pv4pLsaUf7XvzeRZsiP_GyT5e6B1GBkxi-cn5kuufSf5Ua5mW1MVZIUigjBPpo$
> >Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks 
> > - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Bob,

You'll find that your cabinetry may limit where you can locate the tracks.
Here's a pic of Touche's genoa track.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvselJxa3llT0xQZzA/view?usp=sharing

Feel free to holler at me off list if you want.
  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:17 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my area we used to
> race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe rail for.  When
> I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, the clew comes
> down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I already
> severely bent the port lifeline last year.
>
> Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so I'll be
> using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the deck.
> I've been given these locations for adding track:
> *Inline tracks*
> Front 20.0 aft of tack
> Back 26.6 aft of tack
> Front off center line 3.5
> Back off center line  4.1
>
> *Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house*
> *130 %  Transverse*
> 19.5 Aft of jib tack
>
> *155% Transverse*
> 23.1  aft of tack
>
> I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to the toe
> rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday it will
> be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).
>
> What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be straight,
> if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with Garhauer
> adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have two months
> to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
>
> Bob Mann
> Mystic
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

The beam of the Mk I is the same as the beam of my Mk II at 10.5 feet. A
high cut clew will help but the sheets will still chafe hard on the life
lines under some points of sail. My boat has inboard genoa tracks but there
is a limit on how close you can sail to apparent wind angle (point) and
still be fast from point A to B upwind. You will be able to sail higher in
light air, say below 10kts apparent but as wind speed increases footing off
will pay off. The design mainly because of keel and hull shape I believe
does not point as well as some newer designs. Besides the lifeline issue
you need to consider the shrouds. The Mk I has for and aft lowers with not
much distance between the uppers and the toe rail.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 11:16 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my area we used to
> race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe rail for.  When
> I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, the clew comes
> down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I already
> severely bent the port lifeline last year.
>
> Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so I'll be
> using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the deck.
> I've been given these locations for adding track:
> *Inline tracks*
> Front 20.0 aft of tack
> Back 26.6 aft of tack
> Front off center line 3.5
> Back off center line  4.1
>
> *Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house*
> *130 %  Transverse*
> 19.5 Aft of jib tack
>
> *155% Transverse*
> 23.1  aft of tack
>
> I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to the toe
> rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday it will
> be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).
>
> What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be straight,
> if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with Garhauer
> adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have two months
> to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
>
> Bob Mann
> Mystic
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

I imagine the toerail block isn't giving you the sheeting angle you want and 
that's why you want to add a track   

I'd look into using  Low Friction Rings and avoid adding tracks.  They've 
gotten the strength up on the rings and race boats are using these instead of 
blocks on tracks.  They reduce the number of fasteners and holes through the 
deck,   saves weight, saves cost, and provides the most adjustment possible.  
You can keep the toerail block and add one low friction ring as an "In-Hauler" 
on the sheet located between the clew and the toerail block with a couple of 
smaller control lines running to jam cleats to position the ring higher/lower 
and in/out.  I think they even make a snatchblock style ring that might work 
better, as you can remove the inhauler when you want to pole out the genoa.

You got me thinking.  I removed my deck hardware to paint the deck and now I am 
considering if I could install a friction ring system and leave the tracks off. 
 I'm gonna check my catalogs and check the loads involved and get back to you.

Thanks,
Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md  





> On 01/23/2021 10:16 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my area we used to 
> race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe rail for.  When I 
> went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, the clew comes down 
> just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I already severely 
> bent the port lifeline last year.
>  
> Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so I'll be 
> using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the deck.  
> I've been given these locations for adding track:
> Inline tracks
> Front 20.0 aft of tack
> Back 26.6 aft of tack
> Front off center line 3.5
> Back off center line  4.1
> 
> Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house
> 130 %  Transverse
> 19.5 Aft of jib tack
> 
> 155% Transverse 
> 23.1  aft of tack
>  
> I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to the toe 
> rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday it will be 
> 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).  
>  
> What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be straight, 
> if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with Garhauer 
> adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have two months to 
> plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
>  
> Bob Mann
> Mystic
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: adding tracks to deck

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

Before I switched to a furling 135% genoa, which I use for racing and
cruising, I raced with a 105% genoa. My tracks are right up against the
cabin, and run from just aft of the shrouds to just forward of the
companionway. With the 105, I got a PHRF rating of nine seconds more than
with a 155, and I pointed five degrees higher than everyone else in the
fleet. The slight decrease in speed was more than made up with the better
pointing angle and better handicap. The smaller genoa allowed me to sheet
in a lot closer, as it doesn't get blocked by the shrouds.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:17 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My '71 C 35 mk I does not have any deck tracks.  In my area we used to
> race with 167% genoa, which I used snatch blocks on the toe rail for.  When
> I went down to a 155%, I still used the toe rail.  However, the clew comes
> down just aft of a stantion and gets caught on the lifeline; I already
> severely bent the port lifeline last year.
>
> Our OD fleet in Detroit is going to 155% max genoa size in '21 so I'll be
> using that sail more often.  All-around, time to add tracks to the deck.
> I've been given these locations for adding track:
> *Inline tracks*
> Front 20.0 aft of tack
> Back 26.6 aft of tack
> Front off center line 3.5
> Back off center line  4.1
>
> *Transverse tracks - run from rail to cabin house*
> *130 %  Transverse*
> 19.5 Aft of jib tack
>
> *155% Transverse*
> 23.1  aft of tack
>
> I've been successful in Wednesday night races running the 167% to the toe
> rail and can continue to do so.  However, for OD races on Saturday it will
> be 155% and 130% (which I don't yet own).
>
> What do you think of the track locations?  Should the track be straight,
> if possible?  What size track, 1.25 T-track?  I'll be going with Garhauer
> adjustable sheet leads.  Other thoughts or suggestions?  I have two months
> to plan and install as I won't launch until late April.
>
> Bob Mann
> Mystic
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7VWs6pv4pLsaUf7XvzeRZsiP_GyT5e6B1GBkxi-cn5kuufSf5Ua5mW1MVZIUigjBPpo$
>  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu