Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
I know that I'm jumping into this late, and you may have already chosen something, but I had good luck using the Wiki Matrix to select a wiki: http://www.wikimatrix.org/ There's a Choice Wizard that you use to answer questions to guide you to a list of wikis that match your needs. It's been updated as recently as July 31 of this year, but there is always the chance that it's missing available wikis. John Klima / Assistant Director / Waukesha Public Library / 262-524-3688 / jkl...@waukesha.lib.wi.us -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Tallman Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:05 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when creating and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG type of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I should at least peak at Confluence. Thanks for the input, Nathan On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: > If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, it will be > very hard to get widespread adoption with it. >
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
We have used the fsckeditor for our gui editor with mediawiki for about 5 years now. It is added as a mediawiki extension. Certainly helps not making everyone learn wiki syntax as before. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Tallman Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:05 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when creating and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG type of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I should at least peak at Confluence. Thanks for the input, Nathan On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: > If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, it will be > very hard to get widespread adoption with it. >
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Ryan Ordway wrote: > 3. The authentication source priority scheme is not at all flexible. We have > run into situations where local users that had been around for years suddenly > could not login because there is a matching user in the LDAP directory, and > for various reasons we had to give the LDAP directory higher priority. This is getting pretty far-afield, but don't do this! If you need to do crazy directory merging stuff, it seems way smarter to set up your own LDAP service that delegates to other directories as you expect than it does to expect your wiki to be as smart as a full-fledged directory service. It's definitely a bummer that there's no out-of-the box way to switch from a local auth setup to a directory-based setup. -n
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
We run a fairly significant Confluence installation on CentOS over VMWare, and have had no problems. Thanks, Cary On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Ryan Ordway wrote: > I will second this. We run Confluence as well, and it worked great as long as > we didn't try to do anything fancy with it. Then we decided to expand its use > to other units on campus, which meant linking it up with an LDAP directory... > > 1. There is no facility for moving users from being local accounts to being > LDAP accounts. If you need LDAP, start with LDAP. If you need to migrate to > LDAP, you will be doing unsupported database modifications. > > 2. There is no facility for choosing which type of users you are creating. > There is no way to specify "I am creating a local account", or "I am linking > to an LDAP account". New users get created in whichever authentication source > has highest priority. To create users in other directories you have to change > their priorities, which can cause login failures if there are any naming > conflicts between authentication sources. > > 3. The authentication source priority scheme is not at all flexible. We have > run into situations where local users that had been around for years suddenly > could not login because there is a matching user in the LDAP directory, and > for various reasons we had to give the LDAP directory higher priority. > > 4. There is no facility for changing usernames. There is a feature request > for this that is many, many years old and no plans that I've heard of to > implement it. If you run into #3, then you get to learn the database schema > and develop your own code to rename users. > > 5. As a Java-based application that runs in a servlet container like Apache > Tomcat, it is very memory hungry and doesn't play well in Virtualized > environments. Atlassian recommends that Confluence NOT be run in a > virtualized environment, which can be a deal breaker for some institutions. > > For the amount of money it costs to run their software, there should be no > duct tape and chicken wire involved in its operation. > > > -- > Ryan Ordway E-mail: rord...@oregonstate.edu > Unix Systems Administrator rord...@library.oregonstate.edu > OSU Libraries, Corvallis, OR 97331Office: Valley Library #4657 > > On Jul 25, 2012, at 6:32 AM, Sean Hannan wrote: > >> As an administrator of a Confluence installation, I have to say that I hate >> it. >> >> Confluence is fine if you are not going to be touching it or doing any kind >> of local customizations (hooking it into local auth, etc.). If that's the >> case, you should really be looking at the hosted version. >> >> I've found that Atlassian is frustrating to deal with for support. I ran >> into a bug in Confluence that has been an open ticket in their issue tracker >> for 6 years. Years. I've found upgrades to be a pain, generally, and >> sometimes Atlassian will be fast and furious with them and it's hard to keep >> up. And the longer you wait, the more painful the upgrades become. >> >> I don't deal with the money side of things, but I definitely think that we >> do not get what we pay for with Confluence. >> >> -Sean >> >> On 7/25/12 9:05 AM, "Nathan Tallman" wrote: >> >>> That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when creating >>> and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use >>> it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG type >>> of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I >>> should at least peak at Confluence. >>> >>> Thanks for the input, >>> Nathan >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: >>> If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
I will second this. We run Confluence as well, and it worked great as long as we didn't try to do anything fancy with it. Then we decided to expand its use to other units on campus, which meant linking it up with an LDAP directory... 1. There is no facility for moving users from being local accounts to being LDAP accounts. If you need LDAP, start with LDAP. If you need to migrate to LDAP, you will be doing unsupported database modifications. 2. There is no facility for choosing which type of users you are creating. There is no way to specify "I am creating a local account", or "I am linking to an LDAP account". New users get created in whichever authentication source has highest priority. To create users in other directories you have to change their priorities, which can cause login failures if there are any naming conflicts between authentication sources. 3. The authentication source priority scheme is not at all flexible. We have run into situations where local users that had been around for years suddenly could not login because there is a matching user in the LDAP directory, and for various reasons we had to give the LDAP directory higher priority. 4. There is no facility for changing usernames. There is a feature request for this that is many, many years old and no plans that I've heard of to implement it. If you run into #3, then you get to learn the database schema and develop your own code to rename users. 5. As a Java-based application that runs in a servlet container like Apache Tomcat, it is very memory hungry and doesn't play well in Virtualized environments. Atlassian recommends that Confluence NOT be run in a virtualized environment, which can be a deal breaker for some institutions. For the amount of money it costs to run their software, there should be no duct tape and chicken wire involved in its operation. -- Ryan Ordway E-mail: rord...@oregonstate.edu Unix Systems Administrator rord...@library.oregonstate.edu OSU Libraries, Corvallis, OR 97331Office: Valley Library #4657 On Jul 25, 2012, at 6:32 AM, Sean Hannan wrote: > As an administrator of a Confluence installation, I have to say that I hate > it. > > Confluence is fine if you are not going to be touching it or doing any kind > of local customizations (hooking it into local auth, etc.). If that's the > case, you should really be looking at the hosted version. > > I've found that Atlassian is frustrating to deal with for support. I ran > into a bug in Confluence that has been an open ticket in their issue tracker > for 6 years. Years. I've found upgrades to be a pain, generally, and > sometimes Atlassian will be fast and furious with them and it's hard to keep > up. And the longer you wait, the more painful the upgrades become. > > I don't deal with the money side of things, but I definitely think that we > do not get what we pay for with Confluence. > > -Sean > > On 7/25/12 9:05 AM, "Nathan Tallman" wrote: > >> That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when creating >> and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use >> it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG type >> of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I >> should at least peak at Confluence. >> >> Thanks for the input, >> Nathan >> >> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: >> >>> If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, >>> it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. >>>
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
I've got the diacritical blues myself right about now... On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:39 AM, David Uspal wrote: > "I'm having issues with my edits not looking right on the page." > > "Did you cut and paste from a Word document into the WYSIWYG editor?" > > "Yes." > > "Bingo." > > > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of > Cary Gordon > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:22 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis > > More often than not, the author seems to intend the poleaxing of your > user experience. > > Cary > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Nate Vack wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Cary Gordon > wrote: > >> WYSIWYG editors are the bane of my existence. > > > > Well... it depends on what you want. If you want clean, valid HTML, > > then yes -- WYSIWYG editors are unholy abominations unleashed upon the > > earth. > > > > If you want documents to look mostly closely like the author intended, > > they're not so bad. Occasionally we need to do a "paste it into > > Notepad and then back" maneuver, but it's rare. > > > > Sometimes people do really, really strange things like pasting an > > entire web page or Word document into the Wiki editor. For extra fun, > > paste an entire wiki editor into the wiki editor. That's its own > > meta-trip. > > > > But the worst case response tends to be "How the heck did you do that? > > Let's revert that, shall we?" > > > > -n > > > > -- > Cary Gordon > The Cherry Hill Company > http://chillco.com >
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
"I'm having issues with my edits not looking right on the page." "Did you cut and paste from a Word document into the WYSIWYG editor?" "Yes." "Bingo." -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary Gordon Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:22 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis More often than not, the author seems to intend the poleaxing of your user experience. Cary On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Nate Vack wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Cary Gordon wrote: >> WYSIWYG editors are the bane of my existence. > > Well... it depends on what you want. If you want clean, valid HTML, > then yes -- WYSIWYG editors are unholy abominations unleashed upon the > earth. > > If you want documents to look mostly closely like the author intended, > they're not so bad. Occasionally we need to do a "paste it into > Notepad and then back" maneuver, but it's rare. > > Sometimes people do really, really strange things like pasting an > entire web page or Word document into the Wiki editor. For extra fun, > paste an entire wiki editor into the wiki editor. That's its own > meta-trip. > > But the worst case response tends to be "How the heck did you do that? > Let's revert that, shall we?" > > -n -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
More often than not, the author seems to intend the poleaxing of your user experience. Cary On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Nate Vack wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Cary Gordon wrote: >> WYSIWYG editors are the bane of my existence. > > Well... it depends on what you want. If you want clean, valid HTML, > then yes -- WYSIWYG editors are unholy abominations unleashed upon the > earth. > > If you want documents to look mostly closely like the author intended, > they're not so bad. Occasionally we need to do a "paste it into > Notepad and then back" maneuver, but it's rare. > > Sometimes people do really, really strange things like pasting an > entire web page or Word document into the Wiki editor. For extra fun, > paste an entire wiki editor into the wiki editor. That's its own > meta-trip. > > But the worst case response tends to be "How the heck did you do that? > Let's revert that, shall we?" > > -n -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
These wikis use Git as their backend for tracking changes. Kinda cool: https://github.com/al3x/git-wiki http://el-tramo.be/software/wigit/ -Shaun On 7/25/12 9:34 PM, Nate Vack wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Cary Gordon wrote: WYSIWYG editors are the bane of my existence. Well... it depends on what you want. If you want clean, valid HTML, then yes -- WYSIWYG editors are unholy abominations unleashed upon the earth. If you want documents to look mostly closely like the author intended, they're not so bad. Occasionally we need to do a "paste it into Notepad and then back" maneuver, but it's rare. Sometimes people do really, really strange things like pasting an entire web page or Word document into the Wiki editor. For extra fun, paste an entire wiki editor into the wiki editor. That's its own meta-trip. But the worst case response tends to be "How the heck did you do that? Let's revert that, shall we?" -n -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Cary Gordon wrote: > WYSIWYG editors are the bane of my existence. Well... it depends on what you want. If you want clean, valid HTML, then yes -- WYSIWYG editors are unholy abominations unleashed upon the earth. If you want documents to look mostly closely like the author intended, they're not so bad. Occasionally we need to do a "paste it into Notepad and then back" maneuver, but it's rare. Sometimes people do really, really strange things like pasting an entire web page or Word document into the Wiki editor. For extra fun, paste an entire wiki editor into the wiki editor. That's its own meta-trip. But the worst case response tends to be "How the heck did you do that? Let's revert that, shall we?" -n
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
I worked at one institution where we used Confluence. I liked it as a user, but from an admin side it seemed to take a lot of work. You could really do fine-grained user management and permissions, but it seemed overkill. What we did like, however, was the Jira issue tracking system. At my current institution we use Twiki and Bugzilla and everyone seems happy with both of them. Matt - Original Message - From: "Nate Vack" To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:11:25 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Sean Hannan wrote: > Confluence is fine if you are not going to be touching it or doing any kind > of local customizations (hooking it into local auth, etc.). This was the other thing we liked about Apple's Wiki Server -- if you have local auth working with OS X in general (very straightforward if you're using OpenDirectory), auth just works with your existing users and groups. -n
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
+1 to this! -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary Gordon Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 13:14 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis WYSIWYG editors are the bane of my existence. Cary On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Pottinger, Hardy J. wrote: > I'll just say my experience with the Confluence WYSIWYG editor hasn't > been great. Now, partly, that might have been the fact that the one > page I tried using it on had been migrated from another wiki, so, to > be fair, the WYSIWYG editor was being presented with a challenge. But, > from a user's POV, I have to say, editing with a WYSIWYG editor on a > wiki is like a prank waiting for a punch line, and you, the > well-meaning user, are the punch line. If you don't want to be > embarrassed, I highly recommend going "advanced mode". :-) > > That experience has lead me to approach most WYSIWYG editors with caution. > Don't trust 'em. > -- > HARDY POTTINGER University of Missouri > Library Systems http://lso.umsystem.edu/~pottingerhj/ > https://MOspace.umsystem.edu/ > "Time and accident are committing daily havoc on the originals of the > valuable historical and State papers deposited in our public offices. > The late war has done the work of centuries in this business. The last > cannot be recovered but let us save what remains not by vaults and > locks which fence them from the public eye and use in consigning them > beyond the reach of accident" --Thomas Jefferson > > > > > > On 7/25/12 8:32 AM, "Sean Hannan" wrote: > >>As an administrator of a Confluence installation, I have to say that I >>hate it. >> >>Confluence is fine if you are not going to be touching it or doing any >>kind of local customizations (hooking it into local auth, etc.). If >>that's the case, you should really be looking at the hosted version. >> >>I've found that Atlassian is frustrating to deal with for support. I >>ran into a bug in Confluence that has been an open ticket in their >>issue tracker for 6 years. Years. I've found upgrades to be a pain, >>generally, and sometimes Atlassian will be fast and furious with them >>and it's hard to keep up. And the longer you wait, the more painful >>the upgrades become. >> >>I don't deal with the money side of things, but I definitely think >>that we do not get what we pay for with Confluence. >> >>-Sean >> >>On 7/25/12 9:05 AM, "Nathan Tallman" wrote: >> >>> That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when >>>creating and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people >>>won't want to use it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki >>>with more of a WYSIWYG type of editing interface. Was also hoping to >>>stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I should at least peak at Confluence. >>> >>> Thanks for the input, >>> Nathan >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: >>> >>>> If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, it will be >>>> very hard to get widespread adoption with it. >>>> -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
WYSIWYG editors are the bane of my existence. Cary On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Pottinger, Hardy J. wrote: > I'll just say my experience with the Confluence WYSIWYG editor hasn't been > great. Now, partly, that might have been the fact that the one page I > tried using it on had been migrated from another wiki, so, to be fair, the > WYSIWYG editor was being presented with a challenge. But, from a user's > POV, I have to say, editing with a WYSIWYG editor on a wiki is like a > prank waiting for a punch line, and you, the well-meaning user, are the > punch line. If you don't want to be embarrassed, I highly recommend going > "advanced mode". :-) > > That experience has lead me to approach most WYSIWYG editors with caution. > Don't trust 'em. > -- > HARDY POTTINGER > University of Missouri Library Systems > http://lso.umsystem.edu/~pottingerhj/ > https://MOspace.umsystem.edu/ > "Time and accident are committing daily havoc on the originals of the > valuable historical and State papers deposited in our public offices. The > late war has done the work of centuries in this business. The last cannot > be recovered but let us save what remains not by vaults and locks which > fence them from the public eye and use in consigning them beyond the reach > of accident" --Thomas Jefferson > > > > > > On 7/25/12 8:32 AM, "Sean Hannan" wrote: > >>As an administrator of a Confluence installation, I have to say that I >>hate >>it. >> >>Confluence is fine if you are not going to be touching it or doing any >>kind >>of local customizations (hooking it into local auth, etc.). If that's the >>case, you should really be looking at the hosted version. >> >>I've found that Atlassian is frustrating to deal with for support. I ran >>into a bug in Confluence that has been an open ticket in their issue >>tracker >>for 6 years. Years. I've found upgrades to be a pain, generally, and >>sometimes Atlassian will be fast and furious with them and it's hard to >>keep >>up. And the longer you wait, the more painful the upgrades become. >> >>I don't deal with the money side of things, but I definitely think that we >>do not get what we pay for with Confluence. >> >>-Sean >> >>On 7/25/12 9:05 AM, "Nathan Tallman" wrote: >> >>> That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when >>>creating >>> and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to >>>use >>> it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG >>>type >>> of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I >>> should at least peak at Confluence. >>> >>> Thanks for the input, >>> Nathan >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: >>> If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
I'll just say my experience with the Confluence WYSIWYG editor hasn't been great. Now, partly, that might have been the fact that the one page I tried using it on had been migrated from another wiki, so, to be fair, the WYSIWYG editor was being presented with a challenge. But, from a user's POV, I have to say, editing with a WYSIWYG editor on a wiki is like a prank waiting for a punch line, and you, the well-meaning user, are the punch line. If you don't want to be embarrassed, I highly recommend going "advanced mode". :-) That experience has lead me to approach most WYSIWYG editors with caution. Don't trust 'em. -- HARDY POTTINGER University of Missouri Library Systems http://lso.umsystem.edu/~pottingerhj/ https://MOspace.umsystem.edu/ "Time and accident are committing daily havoc on the originals of the valuable historical and State papers deposited in our public offices. The late war has done the work of centuries in this business. The last cannot be recovered but let us save what remains not by vaults and locks which fence them from the public eye and use in consigning them beyond the reach of accident" --Thomas Jefferson On 7/25/12 8:32 AM, "Sean Hannan" wrote: >As an administrator of a Confluence installation, I have to say that I >hate >it. > >Confluence is fine if you are not going to be touching it or doing any >kind >of local customizations (hooking it into local auth, etc.). If that's the >case, you should really be looking at the hosted version. > >I've found that Atlassian is frustrating to deal with for support. I ran >into a bug in Confluence that has been an open ticket in their issue >tracker >for 6 years. Years. I've found upgrades to be a pain, generally, and >sometimes Atlassian will be fast and furious with them and it's hard to >keep >up. And the longer you wait, the more painful the upgrades become. > >I don't deal with the money side of things, but I definitely think that we >do not get what we pay for with Confluence. > >-Sean > >On 7/25/12 9:05 AM, "Nathan Tallman" wrote: > >> That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when >>creating >> and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to >>use >> it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG >>type >> of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I >> should at least peak at Confluence. >> >> Thanks for the input, >> Nathan >> >> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: >> >>> If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, >>> it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. >>>
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
An alternative, which could force a different argument, is that we are moving away from Confluence to Campus Guides from Springshare. Though I do think Confluence is a good product, I might add that I like being able to link it to Jira and SVN. Since these don't apply, if your place uses Springshare products, it might be worth expanding the usage instead of bringing up another system to support. ___ Michael Friscia Manager, Digital Library & Programming Services Yale University Library (203) 432-1856 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Tallman Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:34 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Wikis There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning curve for users? I'm thinking of starting a wiki for internal best practices, etc. and wondered what people who've done the same had success with. Thanks, Nathan
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Sean Hannan wrote: > Confluence is fine if you are not going to be touching it or doing any kind > of local customizations (hooking it into local auth, etc.). This was the other thing we liked about Apple's Wiki Server -- if you have local auth working with OS X in general (very straightforward if you're using OpenDirectory), auth just works with your existing users and groups. -n
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
As an administrator of a Confluence installation, I have to say that I hate it. Confluence is fine if you are not going to be touching it or doing any kind of local customizations (hooking it into local auth, etc.). If that's the case, you should really be looking at the hosted version. I've found that Atlassian is frustrating to deal with for support. I ran into a bug in Confluence that has been an open ticket in their issue tracker for 6 years. Years. I've found upgrades to be a pain, generally, and sometimes Atlassian will be fast and furious with them and it's hard to keep up. And the longer you wait, the more painful the upgrades become. I don't deal with the money side of things, but I definitely think that we do not get what we pay for with Confluence. -Sean On 7/25/12 9:05 AM, "Nathan Tallman" wrote: > That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when creating > and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use > it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG type > of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I > should at least peak at Confluence. > > Thanks for the input, > Nathan > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: > >> If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, >> it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. >>
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
We use PMWiki (http://pmwiki.org/) as our wiki. It's php based, stable, open source, has a large community of developers, and it's easy to configure and work with. It also has a fairly easy to learn editor. Not quite WYSIWG, but doable. You can also set up a variety of skins for different portions of the wiki. I've been able to implement new features fairly quickly and easily. Laura Laura Pope Robbins Associate Professor/Reference Librarian Dowling College Library Phone: 631.244.5023 Fax: 631.244.3374 "A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." --Tyrion Lannister in A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin On Jul 25, 2012, at 9:22 AM, Katie Filbert wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Nathan Tallman wrote: > >> That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when creating >> and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use >> it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG type >> of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I >> should at least peak at Confluence. >> > > It's still experimental but the Wikimedia Foundation is developing a visual > WYSIWYG type editor. > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor:Sandbox (try it) > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VisualEditor > > The goal is to make it easier to edit without the wiki syntax. There still > will be an "advanced" edit option so that people can still use markup if > they want. > > Cheers, > Katie Filbert > > >> >> Thanks for the input, >> Nathan >> >> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: >> >>> If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, >>> it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. >>> >> > > > > -- > Katie Filbert > Board member, Wikimedia District of Columbia > http://wikimediadc.org > filbe...@gmail.com > @filbertkm / @wikimediadc
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
Excellent, thank you Katie! Nathan On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Katie Filbert wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Nathan Tallman > wrote: > > > That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when > creating > > and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use > > it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG > type > > of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I > > should at least peak at Confluence. > > > > It's still experimental but the Wikimedia Foundation is developing a visual > WYSIWYG type editor. > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor:Sandbox (try it) > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VisualEditor > > The goal is to make it easier to edit without the wiki syntax. There still > will be an "advanced" edit option so that people can still use markup if > they want. > > Cheers, > Katie Filbert > > > > > > Thanks for the input, > > Nathan > > > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: > > > > > If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, > > > it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. > > > > > > > > > -- > Katie Filbert > Board member, Wikimedia District of Columbia > http://wikimediadc.org > filbe...@gmail.com > @filbertkm / @wikimediadc >
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Nathan Tallman wrote: > That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when creating > and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use > it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG type > of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I > should at least peak at Confluence. > It's still experimental but the Wikimedia Foundation is developing a visual WYSIWYG type editor. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor:Sandbox (try it) http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VisualEditor The goal is to make it easier to edit without the wiki syntax. There still will be an "advanced" edit option so that people can still use markup if they want. Cheers, Katie Filbert > > Thanks for the input, > Nathan > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: > > > If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, > > it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. > > > -- Katie Filbert Board member, Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org filbe...@gmail.com @filbertkm / @wikimediadc
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
That's what I'm worried about with MediaWiki. The syntax used when creating and editing pages isn't intuitive and I'm afraid people won't want to use it. I was hoping someone would recommend a wiki with more of a WYSIWYG type of editing interface. Was also hoping to stick with FLOSS, but perhaps I should at least peak at Confluence. Thanks for the input, Nathan On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Nate Vack wrote: > If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, > it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. >
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Nathan Tallman wrote: > There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any > recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning > curve for users? We looked at a bunch(!) of them a couple years back, and the two standouts were Confluence and Apple's Wiki Server. The fact that we already had a couple OS X Server boxes laying around made the choice rather easy. Confluence's price also weighed in rather a lot. We've had a few power users complain about lack of functionality, and search is surprisingly dodgy (we're still on 10.6, though; I hear 10.7 is better) but we've been awfully happy with it. I'm still kind of shocked to look back and realize that our lab successfully adopted a wiki. If you have a dedicated core of people who will be responsible for maintaining the wiki and happy to embrace its wiki syntax and other strangenesses (common question: how do I create a page?), MediaWiki may be best. If you're expecting "everyone" to create and edit pages, it will be very hard to get widespread adoption with it. -n
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
Hi Nathan, given the huge user base of MediaWiki, you would need very good reasons (read: special requirements) to choose anything else. Also, the large developer community makes Mediawiki a more future-proof choice than anything commercial backed by a single company. On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 04:34:27PM -0400, Nathan Tallman wrote: > There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any > recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning > curve for users? I think it is fair to say that everyone who uses the Internet also uses Wikipedia, either passively or actively. Have you noticed that search engines will usually return a link to a Wikipedia article on the first page of results, no matter what you are looking for? Hence, there will be no learning curve if you choose Mediawiki. At my university, I run a small internal MediaWiki farm for purposes like yours. My signature below links to two spare-time projects: These are public MediaWiki installations I run elsewhere on a rented virtual private server (Linux VPS). One is using the Semantic Mediawiki extension to implement a database of text generation software systems and related publications; the other serves as a lightweight Web content management system (WCMS) for a special interest group of a research association. I have found MediaWiki easy to use, install and maintain, and so far I have always found a suitable free extension whenever the included funcionality did not suffice. On the other hand, if you need fine-grained access controls, then you do not want a wiki but a full, traditional WCMS. Cheers, Christian -- Christian Pietsch http://www.nlg-wiki.org/ ยท http://www.sigsem.org/ Bielefeld University Library and CRC 882 Bielefeld, Germany pgpHysK7exoCl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
Dhanushka Samarakoon > Confluence is free for non-profits, but for academics they charge a reduced > fee. http://www.atlassian.com/licensing/confluence > > If you just want a basic wiki mediawiki would work, but for more elaborated > access control (and other features) Confluence would be better. Atlassian are particularly insiduous, using dodgy tactics like free "first hits" for FOSS projects and non-profits to try to get people hooked and keep them away from the community using and improving free software. I've lost count of the number of times that I've heard librarians criticising similar divide-and-conquer marketing efforts like free-to-university-libraries from library service providers, so I'm surprised to see people recommending it here! I'm no big fan of mediawiki (mainly because its markup is incompatible with earlier wikis, which confuses me every time), but it has a vast range of extensions, so it's definitely not basic. Much better to be part of an information-sharing community, isn't it? (I use trac's wiki and mediawiki on various projects. I've contributed to a few projects that use Confluence, but really don't like it.) Hope that helps, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
We are very happy with Confluence at UCLA. It supports the wiki metaphor of a pool of labeled/tagged documents with a hierarchical directory-like structure, so you don't have to choose between the two models. Although I usually edit pages in the wiki markup view, many of our users prefer the very friendly gui. Academic pricing is 50% of the regular license for a local version. If you want to avoid the effort of administering your own server, you can sign up for Altassian's hosted service called On-Demand, although I'm not sure if the discount applies. --Gary -- -- Gary Thompson -- Development Supervisor -- UCLA Library Information Technology -- 390 Powell -- voice: 310.206.5652 -- On 7/24/2012 3:33 PM, Cary Gordon wrote: You might want to look at Atlasssian Confluence. They offer free licenses to non-profit and edu. Thanks, Cary On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Stuart Yeates wrote: The wiki software with the largest user base is undoubtedly media wiki (i.e. wikiepdia). We're moving to it as a platform precisely because to leverage the skills that implies. We're not far enough into our roll out to tell whether it's going to be a success cheers stuart Stuart Yeates Library Technology Services http://www.victoria.ac.nz/library/ -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Tallman Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2012 8:34 a.m. To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Wikis There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning curve for users? I'm thinking of starting a wiki for internal best practices, etc. and wondered what people who've done the same had success with. Thanks, Nathan
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
Confluence is free for non-profits, but for academics they charge a reduced fee. http://www.atlassian.com/licensing/confluence If you just want a basic wiki mediawiki would work, but for more elaborated access control (and other features) Confluence would be better. On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Cary Gordon wrote: > You might want to look at Atlasssian Confluence. They offer free > licenses to non-profit and edu. > > Thanks, > > Cary > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Stuart Yeates > wrote: > > The wiki software with the largest user base is undoubtedly media wiki > (i.e. wikiepdia). > > > > We're moving to it as a platform precisely because to leverage the > skills that implies. > > > > We're not far enough into our roll out to tell whether it's going to be > a success > > > > cheers > > stuart > > > > Stuart Yeates > > Library Technology Services http://www.victoria.ac.nz/library/ > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of > Nathan Tallman > > Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2012 8:34 a.m. > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Wikis > > > > There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any > > recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning > > curve for users? I'm thinking of starting a wiki for internal best > > practices, etc. and wondered what people who've done the same had success > > with. > > > > Thanks, > > Nathan > > > > -- > Cary Gordon > The Cherry Hill Company > http://chillco.com >
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
I would second this, for the use you describe, it seems like the simplest option. ___ Michael Friscia Manager, Digital Library & Programming Services Yale University Library (203) 432-1856 From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Cary Gordon [listu...@chillco.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:33 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis You might want to look at Atlasssian Confluence. They offer free licenses to non-profit and edu. Thanks, Cary On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Stuart Yeates wrote: > The wiki software with the largest user base is undoubtedly media wiki (i.e. > wikiepdia). > > We're moving to it as a platform precisely because to leverage the skills > that implies. > > We're not far enough into our roll out to tell whether it's going to be a > success > > cheers > stuart > > Stuart Yeates > Library Technology Services http://www.victoria.ac.nz/library/ > > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of > Nathan Tallman > Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2012 8:34 a.m. > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Wikis > > There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any > recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning > curve for users? I'm thinking of starting a wiki for internal best > practices, etc. and wondered what people who've done the same had success > with. > > Thanks, > Nathan -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
You might want to look at Atlasssian Confluence. They offer free licenses to non-profit and edu. Thanks, Cary On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Stuart Yeates wrote: > The wiki software with the largest user base is undoubtedly media wiki (i.e. > wikiepdia). > > We're moving to it as a platform precisely because to leverage the skills > that implies. > > We're not far enough into our roll out to tell whether it's going to be a > success > > cheers > stuart > > Stuart Yeates > Library Technology Services http://www.victoria.ac.nz/library/ > > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of > Nathan Tallman > Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2012 8:34 a.m. > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Wikis > > There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any > recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning > curve for users? I'm thinking of starting a wiki for internal best > practices, etc. and wondered what people who've done the same had success > with. > > Thanks, > Nathan -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Wikis
The wiki software with the largest user base is undoubtedly media wiki (i.e. wikiepdia). We're moving to it as a platform precisely because to leverage the skills that implies. We're not far enough into our roll out to tell whether it's going to be a success cheers stuart Stuart Yeates Library Technology Services http://www.victoria.ac.nz/library/ -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Tallman Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2012 8:34 a.m. To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Wikis There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning curve for users? I'm thinking of starting a wiki for internal best practices, etc. and wondered what people who've done the same had success with. Thanks, Nathan
[CODE4LIB] Wikis
There are a plethora of options for wiki software. Does anyone have any recommendations for a platform that's easy-to-use and has a low-learning curve for users? I'm thinking of starting a wiki for internal best practices, etc. and wondered what people who've done the same had success with. Thanks, Nathan
