Re: Voice Activated Controls
Dean Collins wrote: The answer is no, the neo processing power is too limited. Or perhaps the answer is more like maybe. ;) I'm still holding my breath for pocketsphinx... The page does say it works with StrongARM, which if I'm reading wikipedia correctly was just 206MHz. You need to start thinking bigger guys. Why does the processing need to occur on the handset itself? What about building a 'cloud' application where the application and processing occurs with only a sip or gsm connection to the handset? Check out http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Tellme for an idea on what I am describing. This is a nice idea to offload processing to another box and spit back the results. One big problem I have with the Tellme approach is that it isn't free as it's using some service provider. Blah for me there. That said, there's no reason the ideas behind it couldn't be implemented freely. I've done speech recognition with sphinx and asterisk. It doesn't work too great--the main problem being that GSM is a pretty low quality sample for it to work with. You know how you can never understand anyone talking on a cell phone? ;) Well, sphinx can't understand it too well either. But pocketsphinx (which I haven't tried) lists on their page telephone-bandwidth models--this looks promising. For SIP, you need some sort of net connection, of course, and I think we can assume that that is coming. Then you can use alaw/ulaw instead of GSM and that will help recognition quite a bit... -Jeff/#jebba ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice Activated Controls
Dean Collins wrote: Hey Jeff, I was going to mention sphinx (or even a lumenvox installation), but this would require people to have an asterisk installation if they were going to run this application. An ASP service will always offer more accuracy and functionality and needn't be too expensive. I can buy a closed phone with more features perhaps too... I prefer the functionality of free/open systems to buying services. Plus asterisk totally kicks ass. ;) Hell if you are going to install asterisk on a home server may as well buy a Mexuar Corraleta license (www.mexuar.com) so you can do the calls via a browser :) Why buy a license when it can be done for free? MozIAX is a Firefox VoIP extension, a cross platform software IAX2 phone (softphone) to be used with Asterisk, the Open Source PBX. Like Asterisk, MozIAX is free software. http://moziax.mozdev.org/ -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice Activated Controls
Dean Collins wrote: Hi Jeff, Nope not the same thing, not the same functionality. Ya, moziax is more useful. ;) In sum, moziax (formerly mozphone) is a firefox plugin that turns the browser into a softphone. Coraleta is a proprietary thing companies can buy so when shoppers are surfing their web pages they can click on a connect button and get a sales rep who can see the context of the webpage they are looking at. It's similar to the Live Chat thing commercial sites often have, but uses voice. Dean Collins originally wrote: Hell if you are going to install asterisk on a home server may as well buy a Mexuar Coraleta license (www.mexua.com) so you can do the calls via a browser :) Now, why the hell someone want a Coraleta license with a home asterisk server is beyond me. I assume you're just spamming us with a client of yours. FWIW, my asterisk server is in a data center. But I think we're getting quite OT now... -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice Activated Controls
Dean Collins wrote: No you wouldn't want to install Mexuar on your home asterisk server, it costs $US2,000 it's only meant for commercial installations. Ok, but that's what you said in an earlier post. That's my point with Mexuar any java compliant browser not just your firefox browser can connect to your asterisk server. You will never be able to get every single person you communicate with to a/ install firefox b/ install the plugin Nor get them all to have java... It does also presume they have decent bandwidth (both setups do). I'm in the third world and can tell you the bandwidth is not always there... Oh, and does the user have a microphone plugged in and placed correctly etc... It also brings me to another point about the topic itself. The nice thing about pocketsphinx is that you don't have to be in cell/wifi coverage area for it to work. Since the neo and it's cousins will be more than just phones, that's definitely an advantage. BUT what it does mean is that you can have a sip or iax softphone on your Neo handset and then allow anyone with a browser to browse to any webpage you install the corraleta url on that they can call you for free. Ya, free for them, $2,000 for me plus a closed solution tie-in. It looks like these guys do a similar thing for free (but still closed): http://www.peerme.com/ Another for money: http://www.gphone.com/service/webcallback Perhaps this one too: http://www.vaxvoip.com/ Or these folks, back in 2004: http://www.vocalscape.com/ And...etc... http://www.asteriskdialer.com I think even google talk does click-to-talk, no? You guys still haven't got it yet, Well don't presume what the rest of the world is thinking from a couple emails of mine... You sound version presumptuous. with enough bandwidth on a single Asterisk server and Mexuar, you could basically deliver calls to every Neo globally eliminating all inbound and international call charges. You still think I'm spamming Jeff? Yes. Do you have financial interests with them at all? The original thread was about Voice Activated Controls and has devolved into this. I took the time out to check out your links only to find them dead ends since they are closed. Maybe I'm just thinking bigger picture which is why I keep talking about network services and you guys talk about gsm subsidies. Ya, we're all so dumb here. Thank god you're around passing light. Perhaps the reason many of us are here is because we are looking for free/open solutions and are very very tired of being bound to closed systems such as Mexuar, no matter how pretty their flash is. Maybe we're actually thinking about the bigger picture (e.g. free/open) and you're just talking about subsidies for your companies... -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice Activated Controls - pocketsphinx RPMS
jeff wrote: Jonathon Suggs wrote: Does anyone know of any software for natural language processing that could be ported to OM/Neo? I really like some of the software that is available for the PocketPC (MS Voice Commander and Fonix). They both run and work well on a resource limited platform as well, so it *can* be done, but both are closed. Here are a couple of OS engines: http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/pocketsphinx/ http://julius.sourceforge.jp/en_index.php?q=en/index.html http://xvoice.sourceforge.net/ So I guess, is there already any voice control software planned/worked on for use in OpenMoko? If not, I'll help out, but can we get a project up and running? I have tried sphinx a few times over the last few years (the project has been around for quite awhile). It never was great for continuous processing like dictating an email, but it worked fine if you gave it a set of commands and a limited dictionary. pocketsphinx is already in openembedded and it compiles fine. OE is currently using pocketsphinx 0.2.1 and sphinxbase 0.1. The current upstream releases are pocketsphinx 0.3 and sphinxbase 0.2.1. I bumped the version numbers in the *.bb files and they still compile fine. Now to actually test them on a neo someday... ;) As for xvoice (which looks kind of abandoned), this pretty much sums it up: In order to run xvoice, you will need a licensed version of ViaVoice for Linux. Julius looks very nice, but they only have Japanese models at the moment. I have also seen, in the long past, one that used the method suggested another place in this thread: you record a sample and when that sample is later detected it triggers a script. This is a different approach--no language models, not speaker independent, etc. But it is also quite flexible and typically pretty accurate. When I gave it a run years ago, the project I used sort of looked like a one off (e.g. a guy's weekend project later forgotten). Now if only I could remember it's name... ;) So, in sum, sphinx is ready today though there are other options. It would be interesting to hear from other openembedded folks how well sphinx has worked on 200MHz-ish ARM-like processors. Ok, I built some quick dirty pocketsphinx packages for FC6-based distros so folks can start kicking around sphinx before their neos arrive. :) Untested... You'll need the pocketsphinx and sphinxbase packages: ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/linux/6/en/os/i386/BLAG/RPMS.extras/ If you are running a different RPM based distro you can get the SRPMS to rebuild from here: ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/linux/6/en/os/i386/SRPMS.extras/ Have fun, -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo
Denis Kot wrote: Great, finally I've got it working with xoo. But I've two problems with it: 1. no cursor over xoo screen Try: To see the cursor, change /etc/matchbox/session SHOWCURSOR=yes -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crossroads
Imre Kaloz wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:51:00 +0100, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Sean, 1) We can't find a WiFi Chipset with GPL'ed drivers -- We know this has been discussed (to death) on this list, but as we're beginning work on the next summer hardware refresh we still can't seem to find a vendor that meets our strict requirements: Namely, we refuse to put anything binary in the kernel. Marvell has some nice for larger devices (the 8388). But we need one specifically for mobile phones (like the 8686). If somebody can help us find the right vendor, we'll give you a free Neo1973. If you're a vendor and want to work with us to GPL your driver, we'll give you lots of business -- and a free phone ;-) Atheros AR6K - check http://atheros.com/pt/AR6001Bulletins.htm , and for the fully GPL'ed driver and SDIO stack please check http://sourceforge.net/projects/sdio-linux/ I hardly think you will find a better alternative ;) From common_atheros_sdiostack.patch (in sdio-linux tarball): Any implementation of the Simplified Specification may require a license from the SD Card Association or other third parties. Any insight on may in this case? Thanks, -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Diagnostic Message
This is a probe message to diagnose the SMTP problems. Please ignore. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shipping very expensive
FWIW Buenos Aires, Argentina was $140 (2 fones + dev board). Federico Lorenzi wrote: Ha, only 100 dollars for you. Shipping to South Africa is $160 On 7/7/08, Flyin_bbb8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey everyone i live in Qatar, and just to see how much the shipping would be for the 900 MHz i just tried to check out the 850 version and shipping to Doha - Qatar ( where i stay ) with UPS worldwide expedited is 97.59 USD, and UPS saver 101.23 USD, that's just unacceptable and very expensive. why so? and why do we not have other choices like FedEx or DHL or even others... why are we restricted on using just UPS, we should have more options... i have done other purchases from other websites and normally the shipping would be between 20 USD to 40 USD as a maximum... but not 97 USD ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Package and image signatures
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 07:26:01AM +0200, Kalle Happonen wrote: Hi, would it be possible to add signatures for the packages and hashes for the images? As well, the prebuilt image files should have at least one of: md5sum, sha1sum, or pgp signature files. -- Jeff My other computer is an abacus. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[WikiReader] Battery Life
I just burned through the 2nd set of batteries with my wikireader in a month and a half. I know I have averaged less than 15 minutes a day of on time, so I am getting no where near the 90 hours of battery life advertised. Don't know if I have a bad one, or if the code needs tweaking. Anyone else notice the battery life has not been so good? Jeff ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [WikiReader] Battery Life
Alkaline, the original energizer batteries that came with the device. I may have some NiMH batteries lying around somewhere, but I don't have any AAA lithium polymer nor a suitable charger. Alex Teiche wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Jeff jcolb...@netins.net mailto:jcolb...@netins.net wrote: I just burned through the 2nd set of batteries with my wikireader in a month and a half. I know I have averaged less than 15 minutes a day of on time, so I am getting no where near the 90 hours of battery life advertised. Don't know if I have a bad one, or if the code needs tweaking. Anyone else notice the battery life has not been so good? Jeff I don't have a WikiReader, but are you using Alkaline or Lithium batteries? The voltage of Alkali based batteries will decrease over time, so that often they will not be able to power an electronic device even though they are not fully discharged. Lithium batteries are best for things like the WikiReader because the voltage stays constant for the most part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [wikireader] There are updates!
They just posted the release, so it is not 2 months old. I finally got it downloaded last night, but had some problems getting it loaded correctly. I'll try again once I get home from work tonight. Also, screen keyboard seems to be more responsive. Also, I was able to flash a new boot rom that gives me a Hitchhikers Guide Dont Panic splash screen. On Friday, August 13, 2010 12:59:02 pm Doug Jones wrote: I just noticed that there are updated WikiReader files available. Happened a couple months ago. I don't think this was announced on the list at the time (or at least I didn't see it whizzing by). I see that the little gizmo can handle multiple wikis now. You can put subdirectories on the SD card and it knows how to use them. This is excellent. There are a bunch of languages available, as well as English Wiktionary and English Wikiquote. See: http://thewikireader.com/update/ If you want to use torrents for downloading instead, go here: http://dev.thewikireader.com/beta-language-packs/ (That page is labeled 'Beta', but the links now appear to be pointing to the same files listed on the other page.) There's a developer blog too: http://dev.thewikireader.com/ P.S. Can anybody give a list of 16GB SD cards that are known to work in the WikiReader? Or should we expect that they all will work? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [wikireader] There are updates!
After I make sure everything is working correctly, I'll post the rom image and procedure to flash online. Like any other flash though, you can brick the device. On Friday, August 13, 2010 02:23:20 pm Brian wrote: On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:41:25 -0500 Jeff jcolb...@netins.net wrote: Also, I was able to flash a new boot rom that gives me a Hitchhikers Guide Dont Panic splash screen. I'd consider buying one just for that feature alone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community attachment: splash2.png___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Got also a WikiReader now
It's easy to load languages on the card. But unfortunately, they don't have a Polish Wiki yet. As long as you get the international Wikireader, it supports up to a 16gb microSD card. International comes with an 8gb. English takes up about 5gb. Summer 2010 Update (8GB, 16GB) Download the base image and then download the language packs that you want to use: Base Files (12.2 MB): All English Wikipedia (5 GB): Parts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 中文 Wikipedia (449.8 MB): All 日本語 Wikipedia (1.4 GB): Parts 1, 2 Português Wikipedia (640.2 MB): All Norsk (bokmål) Wikipedia (294.8 MB): All Ελληνικά Wikipedia (106.7 MB): All Français Wikipedia (1.6 GB): Parts 1, 2 Suomi Wikipedia (310.7 MB): All Dansk Wikipedia (162.1 MB): All Deutsch Wikipedia (1.9 GB): Parts 1, 2 Nederlands Wikipedia (678.2 MB): All Español Wikipedia (1.1 GB): Parts 1, 2 Cymraeg Wikipedia (30.9 MB): All Русский Wikipedia (1 GB): All Magyar Wikipedia (311.4 MB): All English Wikiquote (53.8 MB): All English Wiktionary (388.1 MB): All On Thursday, September 09, 2010 07:20:23 pm Adam Bogacki wrote: On -9/01/37 07:59, Alexander Lehner wrote: Since 'Pulster' recently posted, that he has Germanized WikiReaders, I could not resist and ordered one. Now I've got it and started playing around (first removed the cap to see the connector to the debug serial interface - disappointed, I need a special adapter to it). But what really surprised me was the fact, that the delivered SD card not only held a german Wikipedia, but also a english and a dutch one! and I can switch between then during runtime and even the history function tracks the different country-specific entries correctly. This function makes it valuable for me, since there are a lot of country-specific pages which are not translated to other languages (simply because it sometimes makes no sense). Of course I was looking around to see some hacks or mods, but I was too lazy to set up my own build-chain. The Fortran interface is nice for some tests, indeed. Just for the joy of yes, we can I'd be intersted in some different ways of abusing that device, and I'm missing a email group like this one for the OM handy. Any pointers to active hackers for the WikiReader? Thanks, Alex. Is there a dual polish - english wikireader SD card available yet ? Adam Bogacki, adam.boga...@clear.net.nz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [wikireader] update experience
There are 2 different wikireaders available. One with a 2gb card and one with a 4+gb card. As I understand it, the 2gb only supports a single language, and the English version is a special one that will fit in 2gb. The 4+gb version will do multiple languages and other things. Since I am from the USA, I am a pin head and only speak one language ;) . I therefore have the full English wiki, along with wikiquotes and the wiktionary and no other languages. The 4gb version supposedly can use micro-sd up 16gb. Also, to make sure you are running the correct version of software, there should be a globe icon on the main screen. You use that to select other languages/wikis. Hope that helped. Jeff On 12/25/2010 3:53 PM, Alexander Lehner wrote: Sorry for posting this here, I don't know if there's already a list for the WR. I've got a WikiReader now for some month and my 10y daughter surprisingly likes it, so I finally decided to get one for my parents as christmas gift. The one I've got came with english, german and netherlands wikis, so I assumed the new one would do so, too. But it didn't, so I had to update the german language package. The Update software so far is really easy and it recognizes the SD card without choosing it from any USB device. It told my to update the base image and the german language, it took about 3-4 hours to download the 1.7GB. After starting the WR again, even the english language was gone, only an empty search window showed up. So I looked at the content of the SD card and still the timestamps of the base files seemed wery old to me. The german language package seemed ok. Then I downloaded the base image from the .torrent file, which seemed to me the only up-to-date source I could get. It was quite a pain, because the only torrent client I had on my parents computer was the torrent downloader from Opera, which is quite slow compared to other torrent clients. After putting the new base files to the SD card, at least the german language was there. I don't know what happened with the english. According to the docs there seems to be a single-language installation (all lang files at root directory) and a multi-lang version with each language in a subfolder. Obviously the do not co-exist. And the well-known problems: Touchscreen is hard to handle (but learnable), backlight for people of higher age is really missing because of their eyes. At least the contrast setup (which seems only to appear if you boot the device without sd card) could/should be part of the usual sdcard-'OS'. (for example pressing the power button short instead of holding it for power-down?). So far I'm now happy with it, I like the device, if my parents do - we will see ;) Alex. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wikireader Hitchhiker's Guide Splash
As a new year's treat I threw together some instructions on how to flash your Wikireader with a modified boot rom that will give you a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Don't Panic splash screen. Usual caveats apply. You can brick your machine doing this, so be careful. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NEhmivcAWBXV4KigVak8SjAiWxaB7aors4Ehzfs62TM/edit?hl=en ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko / Medion Wikireader?
I knew the mediaon and pandigital were the compressed and shortened versions of the Wikireader. The big one can use larger SD cards, so you can carry around more information. Mine has the full english wikipedia, wiktionary, and wikiquotes on an 8gb microsd. If you use a 16 gb card, you can add even more info, like Gutenberg. However, I don't think the smaller capacity wikireaders are capable of addressing the 8gb and larger cards. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: google earth - [was: Re: Another simple GPS+GPRS idea]
the Google maps website does list a linux version, but it lists a pentium class processor as a system requirement, I wonder if we could get google to do a custom compile onto our hardware, seems like their style --Jeff On 11/27/06, Alessandro Iurlano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/27/06, David Ormsbee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, We can still have an application that simply reads GPS data from the phone and hits the Google Maps website with it, right? The site accepts long/lat. coordinates, and even has a satellite view mode (though the quality isn't as high as in Google Earth). Dave Unfortunately it seems we cannot. Google maps API's terms of service allow you to use it in a website and not in a standalone non-Web application (FAQ clearly says that) And Google Earth requires the client to be installed on the machine that you use. So both ways are not valid :( The only doable thing I can think now is a client to compile information for the openstreetsmap project :( This license is against all the applications that I wanted to implement Bye and thanks, Alessandro On 11/27/06, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2006-11-27 at 12:44 +0100, Alessandro Iurlano wrote: I know that google provides API for the search engine. Are there APIs for google earth maps too? Slashdot ran yesterday a story about this: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/25/225256 http://gaia.serezhkin.com/ Basically the same goes for map data. You may have a look into openstreetmap.org . You may ask Sean about availability of maps for the Neo1973 (a quick search in the ML-archives gives no hits). Hope that helps. Marcus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (re)charging control
On 11/28/06, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/28/06 2:24 AM, Tomasz Zielinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Questions to hardware developers: 1. How long does the battery live with only GSM unit active? 2. How long with GSM and GPS? 3. How long with GSM, GPS and Bluetooth? We really don't have these answers at this point. I will keep you all posted. 4. Is the user-mode software allowed to turn on and off various modules? In example: crontab task turns the GPS on, read coordinates, process them, turns GPS off and sleep for 15 minutes. This is an open device...even down to the kernel. Whether we allow this or not, if somebody wants to do it, it can happen ;-) -Sean Um, the only thing I see as a problem, since you said in a previous email ( or later, I'm not sure, this is the order I read them) that all the hardware requires an non-disclosure, either you're going to need to provide access to the power up/sleep commands thru the drivers, or reverse engineering this is going to suck, assuming there's even a software sleep command(I'd assume so, but normally that begets bad things) even a nice constant for the commands, and a passthrough character driver would be really nice. I'm not asking you to go farther than your agreement, but if you could map the system commands for the major components into the driver, that would be a wonderful help Thank you so much, Sean, for making this all possible, it's really a wonderful thing --Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: voice recgonition
On 11/28/06, Joel Newkirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Michel wrote: Salve Richard! I like your ideas here, ;) it definitely looks feasible to support a small subset of voice-commands.. Yes/No/Again/Next could be standardised and available to all applications. AFAIK will a small number of different voice commands have a good regognize rate. IBM released a modified multimodal Opera web browser for the older-style Zaurus (Embedix linux) that supports voice interaction tags - Websphere Everyplace Multimodal Environment. I've played around with it, and it works pretty well. By using XML (XHTML plus VoiceXML, actually) and defining limited-domain voice tags within a document it can distinguish spoken numbers, names, pizza toppings, etc without training. The engine should be able to handle a screenful of 9-16 icons by name plus basic menus, for example. As long as each item consists of a distinct series of phonemes it's smooth. (it doesn't need to hear the difference between 'whiter' and 'writer' - it's not speech-to-text) I for one find 'voice tags' on my cells to have been irritating, but have always wanted to be able to just recite a number and store or dial, or fire up the calculator and run some calculations, without pressing buttons or navigating menus. Between that and FLite (Festival Lite speech synthesis engine, available for the Zaurus and various ARM-Linux distros) you have the underpinnings of some very interesting possibilities. j Hey! and OpenMoKo is supposed to be build compatible with Zaurus apps, right? so we're half way there --Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Another idea for an application for the Neo: Instant sync to web page duplicating info on phone
This isn't really half baked at all, all you need is a webserver on the device small enough to run 1-2 clients and https... It's even better than the danger since everything runs on your phone... you have control of security, and we could even make a monitor app that displays when someone's accessing your webserver --Jeff On 11/29/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's another idea, this one less than half-baked, but I trust this community to help identify the flaws, seek the gems, and see if anything remains that is useful. My current phone is the Danger Sidekick II. One of its features that I really like is the web page that Danger provides that duplicates the data on my phone: Calendar, address book, notes files, todo list, photographs, email, and perhaps others. Modifications can made either on the web page or on the phone. There is no special sync command. Data entered on the one is available on the other almost instantly, assuming data network connectivity. Syncronization happens automatically and constantly. I recognize that there are security flaws with this. Remember Hilton's video? This is how it was stolen. Here's how I use it: I jot down notes all day long on my phone. At home, I visit the web page and simply cut and paste my notes into emails, documents, even programs. The nice thing about this is that I always have access to the data on my phone, and I don't have to worry about any special sync cables or cradles or software (all my home computers run Linux, so I can't use most phone desktop programs). I never have to worry about leaving my cradle at home, and needing the data at work. I'm a big fan of CVS, and I often CVS important files from my phone. And of course I can quickly check my calendar or address book from any browser, anywhere. Now I have many issues with Danger's implementation of this feature, but I really like the idea. I'm not that familiar with other smart phones, but I've never seen, or heard about, anything like this with the others. Of course our implementation will be open, so I can make it do exactly what I want. For example, provide an API, so that I can write a cron job that every so often will download all data off the phone and CVS it. Remember, the phone doesn't have to be in a cradle for this to occur. Heck, the phone could even be powered off, and my cron job would get the last version that made it to the server. I think that Danger provides the servers for this; in our implementation we would probably have to each provide our own, which means we'd have to write the server side code as well. I suppose this is all done with PHP, Java, and other languages that I don't know about (I'm more of a kernel/device driver/embedded/hardware guy). We could implement as much or as little security as we wish (SSL, encryption, etc.) What do you think? Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
re: Another idea for an application for the Neo: Instant sync to web page duplicating info on phone
Use web services... Web methods or whatever you call it. If you build an api for uploading sets of data they could be implelented in almost any lauguage and used natively like normal objects. Perl, php, python, java, c# can all do that and it means the backend does not have to be rewritten every time someone wants to use it in a language. Also, you could then provide a bundle of code for the server backend that handles the web service requests which anyone could run and point their own phone at their server. It may be easier if the phone has an accessable IP address... I'm not quite sure how GPRS works, some one who knows let me know... but we could set up a embedded web server on the openmoko device itself. ICS is really simple so we could host that from the device as well. If Apache isn't small enough, even stripped down, there are several server apps that are optimised for this kind of environment ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: multicolour multi-touch screen Re: OpenMoko/Neo1973 is pure (r)evolution :))) - do you recognized the power of multi-touch gesture recognition
No keystroke at all - using just the different color points - areas and use the combinatoric - 10 colour points without different areas would give the power of 10! = 3.628.800 combinations more areas would give more power so... if we've got an optical system like this, would it also be possible to use the screen to scan in small documents(business cards) I think I saw something like this years back, and this would be a perfect platform for that idea... especially if we can throw in some OCR --Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: Please think about incrementel sync Re: Another idea for an application for the Neo: Instant sync to web page duplicating info on phone
snip
Without thougths like that you will have an incredible GPRS traffic =
costs.
ICS is really simple so
we could host that from the device as well. If Apache isn't small
enough,
even stripped down, there are several server apps that are optimised for
this kind of environment
I don't do a lot of data on my phone at the moment mostly I use bluetooth
for this kind of thing, so I hadn't thought about costs... the other thing
we could try is an XML transfer of just the data, offloading the formatting
onto another server... the cool thing about this is we could run both
directly from the phone or from an intermediary depending on preferences and
the particular situation.
When you use an intermediary server, that will handle the heavy lifting on
building the page and you could have a nice ajax-y interface, direct from
the phone you could remotely store an XSL-T stylesheet to give you the
frontend. this minimizes the data that needs to go back and forth. sending
files back and forth I'd rather use something else, but in a pinch we could
use an svn client which does send only the file diffs back and forth, plus
storing the whole machine's drive on subversion gives us a nice backup in
case someone throws you into the pool with your phone in your pocket (it's
all fun and games until someone loses thier {email | phonebook | files |
blackmail photos of drunk friends}) you could also use this like so:
{user to phone} request update/commit cycle from phone to repository
{user on desktop} update local copy of phone filesystem
{user on desktop} make appropriate changes to files
{user on desktop} commit to repository
{user to phone} request update from repository
where you are not on your phone, and are making commands from a browser
Apache/whichever servers we're running handles the encryption, and now you
can get to the current version of your system through websvn from anywhere
--Jeff
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Re: Please think about incrementel sync Re: Another idea for an application for the Neo: Instant sync to web page duplicating info on phone
On 11/29/06, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Web services are XML data transfer. The problem with xml is that it is
wordy for data (size) but good for parsing. What I mean by that is that its
not the most efficient way to transfer data ( ok thats obvious) but its a
defined format and easy to parse just about anywhere.. just slow.
ah, but XML has a lot of good tools to offload the pretty portions onto
other servers... and we can pull a Google and use one-letter tag names to
cut down on space. to see what I mean check out here:
www.asu.edu/clubs/paddle http://www.asu.edu/clubs/paddle all the stuff
that makes the site pretty is in the xsl-t page... I'm pretty sure we can
cut down on the bloat by setting up our schema for minimum size
If you are keeping a copy of the current versions locally then diffing and
sending only the diffs would be easy... but to my knowledge svn only keeps
the diffs between versions at the repository. Someone who knowns please
correct me. If I understand what you are saying and based on my
knowledge...
You either keep an old version for diffing purposes and replace it with
the current version when you do the commit. All changes happen to the
original not the old copy
Now that you mention it, I'm not really that sure either... but I think
you're right.
snip
--Tim
btw.. I tend to over explain things so if I don't go far enough please ask
me (I am trying to cut back) ;-)
Also, feel free to correct me if I state something wrong.. I like to be
correct in my understanding and if I don't have all the necessary
information I would like to know what I am missing out on. ;-)
amen, brother, amen
On 11/29/06, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Without thougths like that you will have an incredible GPRS traffic =
costs.
ICS is really simple so
we could host that from the device as well. If Apache isn't small
enough,
even stripped down, there are several server apps that are optimised
for
this kind of environment
I don't do a lot of data on my phone at the moment mostly I use
bluetooth for this kind of thing, so I hadn't thought about costs... the
other thing we could try is an XML transfer of just the data, offloading the
formatting onto another server... the cool thing about this is we could run
both directly from the phone or from an intermediary depending on
preferences and the particular situation.
When you use an intermediary server, that will handle the heavy lifting
on building the page and you could have a nice ajax-y interface, direct from
the phone you could remotely store an XSL-T stylesheet to give you the
frontend. this minimizes the data that needs to go back and forth. sending
files back and forth I'd rather use something else, but in a pinch we could
use an svn client which does send only the file diffs back and forth, plus
storing the whole machine's drive on subversion gives us a nice backup in
case someone throws you into the pool with your phone in your pocket (it's
all fun and games until someone loses thier {email | phonebook | files |
blackmail photos of drunk friends}) you could also use this like so:
{user to phone} request update/commit cycle from phone to repository
{user on desktop} update local copy of phone filesystem
{user on desktop} make appropriate changes to files
{user on desktop} commit to repository
{user to phone} request update from repository
where you are not on your phone, and are making commands from a browser
Apache/whichever servers we're running handles the encryption, and now
you can get to the current version of your system through websvn from
anywhere
--Jeff
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--
-- Tim
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Re: Light sensor
On 11/30/06, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the problem with doing it this way, is you'd need some way to notify each application of all the sensors available at runtime, or you re-compile each availability sensitive app for every combination of sensors (having that many versions of software is sure to turn off Sean's dad) there's definately more to think about on this one Are you thinking of not only notifying each application on the number of sensors.. (That would be easy enough in the api) but also to let them have access to the setup/configure api for each one? Enumerating over each sensor that is active would be fairly easy using the plugin mechanism previously described... If every plugin had the same output ranges... Say 0 to 255 or whatever and using the probability scenario he talked about the application would only need to know one interface, I.e. Availability. As I understand the proposal, and I might be wrong, it would end up a heirarchy. Lower level plugins could be accessed at any level but the common usage would be to build behaviors going up from the sensors and applications would interface with that... Is that right? With that in mind, each plugin would register with some service which handles the interface to applications. Each behavior created would do the same and gain access to the sensors available. Then a control panel could be created to enable/disable some but not all plugins at the will of the user, though that would modify the behaviors, they would then act on the information currently available. Seems like a fairly interesting concept. Do I understand the concepts or am I missing something? --Tim yeah, I'm still trying to understand Richard's concept. It sounds really efficient, therefore cool, but I'm missing stuff -- --Jeff What DO you call whitewater when you live in the desert? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will the Neo1973 support Dual-SIM with SPST? Re: Using UART/SPI... for swithing 2-8 SIM-cards Re: [Neo1973] Hardware access: additional solder points ; )
On 12/1/06, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not just copy the sim card into the phone? We use Linux, so we can do whatever we like ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community as I understand it, the GSM module is a closed-box... we just send commands to it and let it handle the work -- --Jeff What DO you call whitewater when you live in the desert? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Conceptual/Data Framework
On 12/5/06, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I started coding this beast last night. Not much to see, but if it garners any interest I'll chuck up on Sourceforge. There are still plenty of things to be decided, so if you'd like to contribute code or ideas, please do :-) Cheers, Richard P.S. Rereading that first sentence makes me think that Beast is a better name than not having a name, but it's all open. yeah, if you want to put it up somewhere I'd like to give you a hand -- --Jeff What DO you call whitewater when you live in the desert? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPLv3 and Mobile Phones
On 12/9/06, Stefan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With ROM you refer to chips that can be written only once? I doubt that many of such chips are still alive. PROM's are used typically where you are producing an end product where you don't need to update. They're MUCH cheaper than an EPROM, and when you're turning out millions of a cheap mickey-d's video game toy, being able to erase the chip doesn't matter Likewise, they're used when extreme ruggedness is needed, since you actually burn part of the silicone during writing, it is more secure from tampering, and less susceptible to damage than a more complex (E)EPROM, EPROMs are susceptible to UV radiation, and EEPROMs to electrical voltages. Since once a fuse cannot be changed once it is blown, it is much more difficult to tamper with the circuit. However, in this case, we're talking about memory that we don't have access to, this could be an (E)EPROM or even flash that we just can't send an erasure signal to. anyways, just thought I'd let you know -- --Jeff What DO you call whitewater when you live in the desert? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FCC status for FIC Neo1973?
not to mention completely outside the terms of service of any major carrier...? a while ago, I spoke to both Cingular and T-Mob, I told them I was doing some work with a gm-862, both said there was nothing in their service restrictions about connecting with weird equipment like that --Jeff On 12/13/06, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean legal challenges beyond its use being, strictly speaking, a violation of Federal law, not to mention completely outside the terms of service of any major carrier...? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of La Monte Henry Piggy Yarroll Sent: Wed 12/13/2006 7:37 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: FCC status for FIC Neo1973? Would anyone care to comment on the FCC status of the FIC Neo1973? In particular, are there any legal challenges associated with using prototypes on a live GSM network? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Internal flash size
User - yes, developer - no. To get working toolchain installed I need 128M for rootfs. So I will have to boot from card or chroot to card or use symlinks. as far as I know this is going to be like any other embedded device, you're crosscompiling so the toolchain lives on your lappy /desktop where you've got 100's of gigabytes, if not terrabytes, of storage. not to mention the difference in monitor and keyboard you'll likely have. yeah, the dev/build/test cycles are a lot slower, but the environment makes up for it Another thing, I know it's unpowered, but is there enough power on the USB port to run a [jump|thumb|stick|usb|flash|whatever the fashionable name is now]drive without external power? It would be awesome to have a viewer that can show docs/pics/random flash games that others carry on those little things, plus you wouldn't have to pull the battery out to make it work --Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: suggested development toolkit for games?
On 1/7/07, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Jellinghaus writes: I wrote a game in turbo pascal a decade or two ago. if I wanted to rewrite it for openmoko, which toolkit etc. would I use for the graphics and sound effects? rewriting this game once more is always a nice way for me to learn some new language and toolkit and do something useful at the same time. :) Anything you want! :) It's my understanding that the apps coming with the phone will use gtk+, so using that would give you a more similar look and feel. If you like C++, the gtkmm wrapper around gtk+ works really well. Qt is also quite popular. The challenge for applications on this phone will be to have them be portable from phone to desktop: it ought to be possible for things like games or information managers to be portable with just a recompile, but then getting them to deal well with the radically different screen sizes is what will make it interesting. That's what I'm planning to be playing with! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I heard the same thing about being GTK based... so anything that runs under GTK on your desktop should be trivial(-ish) to re-compile for the target(your mileage may vary-- caveat emptor-- Si vis Pacem, Para bellum-- and other legalese) you also want to watch out for text entry/control issues. I'm not sure what the interface to your game was, but keep in mind that input may be limited (not everyone wants to lug around a usb keyboard and power source). That said, it'd be great to have a couple of text-based games to try out the different text-entry methods I'd love to see how this turns out... make sure you put it up on the app-manager repository, and let us when it goes up! -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple iPhone
On 1/10/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/01/07, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Conceptually very similar to the FIC1973, with of course the added Apple candy and design team efforts. I wonder how the FIC1973's graphics capabilities will compare - all the slick XGL style swooshing around and zooming in makes the multitouch interface really 'wow!' -- Regards, Dave ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I read somewhere too that you can't install/remove any of the software (does sound like apple's MO) from the device. so pretty much you're stuck with the apps they gave you. while they look really slick... it still worries me a bit -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: is google.com down? Move this list to a BB/Forum system?
On 1/19/07, Christopher Heiny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 19 January 2007 06:12, Gervais Mulongoy scribbled in crayon on the back of a kid's menu: What about using Google Groups? Bleah. All the inconvenience of a BB/forum combined with all the drawbacks of web based email. On 1/19/07, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/19/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMHO, mailing lists usually lack a good archive and therfore the same questions are discussed every now and then and they have a tendency of separating communities in two groups - insiders who know all the mails of the last two years and newcomers who don't. I am hoping we can make the wiki fill this void. So help out bu when you have a problem that you find solved by digging through the mailing list archive, put it on the wiki. Preferably formatted so you will not need to read a whole thread to solve the same issue. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community There is always the option of using google groups as a remote archive... if you don't like it you don't have to use it, and continue on the way everything is now, it gives us one more option on how to view the group http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=38187query=archivetopic=type= -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Text input, OpenMoko and Tengo
I'm not that much into patent laws, but how long can it take for a patent to get accepted/rejected? With good lawyers and enough cash, I've heard of companies pulling this out to like 10 years On 1/21/07, Ulrik Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, since it's just pending, that means that an implementation of something that works in the same way would only be legal to distribute on borrowed time? I'm not that much into patent laws, but how long can it take for a patent to get accepted/rejected? Since a method like this seems very effective for all kinds of touch screen based devices, it would kinda cripple the industry if one company was sitting on such a fundamental piece of functionality. What if they chose _not_ to support the OpenMoko? On Saturday 20 January 2007 19:55, Renaissance Man wrote: Well, actually I was wrong, it's not (yet) patented. Their website says patent pending: http://www.tengo.net/tengo_intellectualproperty.html I don't know anything about patent law. I've just heard I a lot of good reports about this way of doing text input. Renaissance Man On 20 Jan 2007, at 2:48 pm, Ulrik Rasmussen wrote: That is patented? But how? It's basically a rearrangement of the buttons used on a regular cell phone. Unless there's some feature that I've missed, then I can't see how this could be innovative enough to deserve a patent. -Ulrik On Saturday 20 January 2007 13:44, Renaissance Man wrote: Would I be right in assuming we won't see anything like Tengo-type free software text input on OpenMoko, being that it's patented? http://www.tengo.net/ I'm also assuming that getting Tengo to add support for OpenMoko is a trivial matter. But would be nice to have a freedom software version. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gaming oportunities
tron? like this?(http://codeninja.de/tron/) I'm down. we've got agps, and the data link should be fast enough to relay position data. it's a whole lot more manageable on the bike... could make a case for that environment hardened device. On 1/16/07, el jefe delito [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of the easier ideas could be: 1. Tic-Tac-Toe: grid changes colour for the Red player's turn, or Blue player's turn 2. Connect Four: grid also changes colour 3. Checkers 4. Chess 5. Gem Drop (already GPL, some info here http://www.tucows.com/preview/9259 ) 6. that addictive Photo game where you have to spot the 5 differences in x seconds 7. KMines or something like MS's Minesweeper 8. Tron? :) On 1/16/07, Wil Chung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, this is my first time posting, I'm just been lurking so far. Looks like everyone, including myself is excited about openmoko. Engin's recent post on controls had me thinking: Why do we have buttons in games? But I think we had buttons to control games because early game makers didn't have direct interactivity with the game elements, and the closest thing they had were the buttons as controls. But now that we're a step closer to direct manipulation of game objects, we want to put buttons on it. I'm not sure this is the right way to go, because it seems like we're trying to retrofit things. I have to admit, tactile feedback is pretty important in how we interact with our devices. However, when it comes to playing games, I see no reason to put direction buttons, shoot and jump button as artifacts on the screen. Why not use the touchscreen as a way to directly manipulate game elements? NintendoDS could be a guide here. Just as a suggestion for first-person shooters, couldn't the tracing of the finger on the screen correspond to where the player character is looking, and a tap to shoot? And the soccer game that you just mentioned, couldn't the dribbler of the ball move to where your finger is, and pass or shoot to where you tap? the main problem with touch screen controls is you cannot give the user my hands fits on this button feeling. this feeling makes the players comfortable about controlling the characters, etc. on th screen. as i said before, also virrtual keypads can be used, or just touching can be a great idea for games... we had some experiences with touchscreen gaming, and the users mainly don't like to playimg doom-like games with a touchscreen, they feel more comfortable with arcade style games... gamers mostly used to a controlling device like joypads, mouse, or keyboards nowadays. and as we experienced, gamers like the analog joysticks of gamepads most. because it gives the feeling of really controlling the character on the screen. but with ipod usage, people used to control simple and touch input device... and now they like mainly no button idea. so that this is an advantage for touch screen games. and also people nowadays like playing arcade games on every playform (even the next-gen gaming consoles). maybe another problem is the response time of the touch screens. this could effect the gameplay experience. the main problem can be the usage of the screen. this is what Nokia N-Gage bumps onto wall. they didn't used a psp like widescreenish screen for gaming. and this became a huge limitation for game developers. If there is a vertical usage oportunity in games, then the games can be more attractive for people. i want to tell you about one of my experiences. we've developed two soccer games for mobile phones (a j2me game, not a s60 game). in the first edition we used the screen as n-gage used, people liked the game but in the second edition we usd the screen in vertical position. then the number pad became like a joypad for right hand. and the area of usage became incredibly beatiful. it triple the first edition downloads and people returned incredibly beatiful comments to us. because there was no (maybe 1-2 more) games that uses the screen of mobile phones vertical. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- be seeing you. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus
one of the more in the loop guys will have to get back to you on this... sean said that there are stylus window templates in the UI. Me I'm hoping for a stylus that's a little less of a cheap plastic stick than most of these things seem to have On 1/17/07, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, some questions about using a stylus with the Neo1973: Is the Neo1973 designed to be used with a stylus? Is there a place inside the phone to store a stylus? Will there be handwriting recognition software available at launch or shortly thereafter? -Sven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
dialer interface questions
something I've been wondering about for a long time, but haven't asked: in the interface shots, it looks like the phone is looking up contacts as you type... or maybe it's just showing a list of recent/common contacts. if it's just showing a list of recent/favorite contacts, that's cool, we can change it after the release, but it would be pretty sweet if the phone could look up people as you type via some kind of lookup method(T9/start dialing a number that's stored in the phonebook/call lists and it completes it/other ideas that I haven't come up with). in other words, whether you want a phone number you have memorized or a person's name via T9/multipress you just start typing and the list below starts getting pared down my other thought is to enable the dialer to look up a phone number via internet directories... I understand you can't make a data and a voice call at the same time, but it would be nice sometimes to see that it's some business calling... or to have the name of a previous caller filled in after the call (wouldn't have to go who was 602-555-8956 on monday at 12:00?). I'll put these up on the wiki, but I wanted to know if there was any feedback on this. anyways, not trying to contribute to the noise, but those have been kind of sizzling on the back burner for a while now, wanted to get them off before they burned (because that really stinks up the place) -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: dialer interface questions
hmmm, I think all we're really doing is searching multiple lists... so I think a case could be made that this doesn't apply, I've got a vague idea about how some of the patent stuff works, but there's orders of magnitude more that I don't know compared to what I do. anyways, you've got a right to be proud if you worked on this, from the little I can see on their site, it looks really tight... I hope you can give us a hand with this stuff without getting yourself in trouble. Thanks On 1/25/07, Richi Plana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't mean to toot my own horn (up till June of 2006, I worked for Zi Corporation as a developer), but you should really check out Qix http://www.zicorp.com/Qix.htm. Unfortunately, most of that stuff is likely patented. I'm not even sure how I can go about developing for OpenMoko since I worked as an embedded software engineer at Zi. At any rate, Qix is fantastic. I'd rather not talk about it (since I might mention something not official), but do go read about it on their web site and discuss how we could come up with a better interface that doesn't violate their patent. On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 23:28 -0700, Jeff Andros wrote: something I've been wondering about for a long time, but haven't asked: in the interface shots, it looks like the phone is looking up contacts as you type... or maybe it's just showing a list of recent/common contacts. if it's just showing a list of recent/favorite contacts, that's cool, we can change it after the release, but it would be pretty sweet if the phone could look up people as you type via some kind of lookup method(T9/start dialing a number that's stored in the phonebook/call lists and it completes it/other ideas that I haven't come up with). in other words, whether you want a phone number you have memorized or a person's name via T9/multipress you just start typing and the list below starts getting pared down my other thought is to enable the dialer to look up a phone number via internet directories... I understand you can't make a data and a voice call at the same time, but it would be nice sometimes to see that it's some business calling... or to have the name of a previous caller filled in after the call (wouldn't have to go who was 602-555-8956 on monday at 12:00?). I'll put these up on the wiki, but I wanted to know if there was any feedback on this. anyways, not trying to contribute to the noise, but those have been kind of sizzling on the back burner for a while now, wanted to get them off before they burned (because that really stinks up the place) -- Richi ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Just for walkers... Re: Yes it will have vibra alarm Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
ha ha, I did mean to send it to the list... thanks! On 1/26/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salve Jeff! Was it your intention to answer me private and not to the list, too? Don't get me to seriously, my English is not perfect, so I'm not good in making jokes in English :)) your english was good enough for me to get the joke, I was just trying to take it a little further(maybe too far) :-) no worries On 1/25/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and the vibra allows to give some feedback to the user by using the touchscreen and diffrent vibra would help to use it for navigation while it is in the pocket like: w ww wwr wrr (turn right) wrr wrr wrrr wrrr wrrr wrrr (turn left) w (turn back) and wr wr wr wr wr wr wr wr wr means you're driving into a river/off a cliff!! seriously though, it'd have to be a heck of a motor for me to feel it while driving, but I really like the concept... it's hard to hear instructions with the top down on the freeway Let me allow to kidding you - you are in the US, right? yeah, it's the jeep thing that gives it away, huh? Outside of the US people could thing to use a navigation even without a car, just while walking... SCNR - real sorry... :) don't be sorry... I'd rather know when I make a fool of myself, so that I can stop, or at least learn from it... and I'd only kind of thought about using it for walking... you'd have to make sure wherever you put it wasn't in loose clothes, and most of the time when I'm walking I either have enough time to wander and take in everything as well as find where I'm going... or I know right where I'm going so it wouldn't matter (if you've always got a gps, how are you supposed to get lost and find cool things?) the other thing I was thinking of, is what about mounting this to the handlebars of my bike... if the vibration motor was strong enough, I could navigate longer courses without taking my eyes off the road Walking cross a city with a navigation - I know somebody who loves to hold it in his hand to try to attrack laydies but I would prefer to have it hidden in my pocket. maybe colored arrows to tell you which way to turn (green=right red=left intensity tells you how far to go) that way you can glance to see the color nono, it was just additional use, not the general way of navigaion... The funny thing of AGPS compard than with normal GPS receiver, it will working even in your pocket - that was my intention to stress with to use it for navigation while it is in the pocket or it should work inside malls too, I can't tell you how many time's I've gotten lost in even smaller ones... and a busy crowded mall isn't my idea of a place to get lost in(if you live in a country without these monstrosities, count your blessings) if we could map out the stores, or at least their entrances, I could get in, get my stuff and get out so much faster. also, for the devs, how is the screen in the sun? does it fade much? I hope not to much... Cheers, rob Thanks for the tip, I'm forwarding it on to everyone now! -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Q: desktop software?
um, isn't syncml supported out of the box? I swear I remember hearing that On 1/27/07, Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good question. I think it was mentioned earlier that the phone will support some stand protocols for syncing (syncml comes to mind). However, it still isn't an easy task to get you synced up with Outlook. That would be a GREAT thing to put in the wiki. How to sync with Outlook (via whatever) as that will probably be a top request. I've tried to look into what all would be involved in setting up a server, but didn't really get that far (didn't spend that much time though). If someone knows of a good guide, then please post. Keep the ideas flowing! On Sat, 2007-01-27 at 21:08 +0200, Oleg L. Sverdlov wrote: What software is planned on desktop side? If any. This is important thing IMHO. There are good and bad examples. Palm Desktop for Windows was good. I'm using it from 1998, did not loose any data. It serves both as organizer, address book and as palm synchronization. That is what I call high quality software. On the other side, software with Zaurus handheld was just unusable. The lack of good desktop sync software contributed to the failure of Zaurus organizer project. Oleg ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko with Apple?
our phone talks syncML... iSync talks syncML... there is no problem On 2/3/07, Jon Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2007-02-03 at 09:09 -0600, Ryan Kline wrote: I just wondered if anybody had any reason to think that the phone will not work as well with Macs as it does with PCs. I want one bad, It is February, right??? Thanks, Ryan Well, if we stick to our dominant open standards, then I see no reason that it shouldn't work worse on an apple (that is unless apple strays from the open standards again)...it would even be good to develop guides for interoperability on the official wiki. That has always bothered me how phones really only target PCs...we can do much better! Jon -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty on phase 1 phones
On 2/20/07, Pranav Desai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/20/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 17:32 -0800, Pranav Desai wrote: Is there any warranty on phase 1 phones ? If the screen is bad, some input ports don't work, etc. what will be the process then ? Of course we'll have a warranty ;-) I'm not sure of the exact terms at this point. Probably something standard like 1 year. Thanks Sean! I assume that the warranty will be void if we open up the phone ? :-) Pranav, I hope you're so kidding... it'd be pretty bad that they published instructions on how to pull the plastics then ding you when you do! but yeah, you bring up a really good point, I'd understand if soldering iron = no warranty though Sean, hope it's not too much to ask for you to relay terms? have the legal guys even gone over this yet? --Jeff -- Pranav -Sean -- -- http://pd.dnsalias.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: coverage at linuxdevices.com
On 3/4/07, Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Graham Auld [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070304 20:10]: As I understand it Andreas, the hackers lunchbox is including the dev board connecting thru the JTAG interface of the phone. You would purchace your phone seperatly. Yeah, but gadgets useable as phones (hardware-wise) won't be available before Summer, right? If I'm wrong, someone please correct me, but as I understand it, the phase 0 release will roll out hardware that's pretty much complete, and usable as a phone. the difference will be the software package that's released. somewhere up on the wiki, there's a list of what software will be released when. the reason the releases are listed as developer is the software package isn't complete. By getting the hardware into the hands of the developers first, the software becomes more and more complete, and ready for consumer release as for the summer hardware refresh, I'd like to know more too, but I'm assuming it's: 1. taking care of any oh noes that get noticed in the previous hardware revision 2. adding features where the FIC team have given in to the griping coming from this list Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
hardware refresh and hardware beta testing
as I was writing up my previous email, a thought occurred to me. for the big name hardware manufacturers, there's a definite benefit to supporting openmoko on thier platforms they intend to release with their proprietary OS's: testing. by releasing the hardware to the embedded community they can find any hardware issues (stinky razr keyboards?) that don't crop up in in-house testing. in reality, they don't even have to release more than a basic driver set... some of us in the community enjoy that particular brand of vodka. I know FIC is releasing the NEO under a different name as well, could this be a motivation/benefit to them? and the benefit to us is that more Openmoko platform devices are available, there are more on the street... more people who go what kind of a phone is that or how did you use your phone to unlock the door of your car(come on, that would be such a cool app... anyone up to changing the receiver/transciever for their remote door unlock?) and we have public interest. everybody wins anyways, just a thought that occurred to me -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: coverage at linuxdevices.com
to highlight points of interest. There are dev boards and 'dev boards', and 200$ is enough for me to get curious to find out what that dev board actually contains/looks like :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board It's got a little more detail... and some basic component descriptions -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Compressed SMS (and other text messages)
On 3/22/07, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Kostyrka wrote: * Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070321 22:58]: Andreas Kostyrka wrote: snip My challenge is just to think bigger. Think how this could be incorporated to work with *any* phone. Then you can have a much larger group of people to brainstorm, test, and bugfix. We have enough protocols and standards to support. Creating yet another one isn't really going to help that much. Also, I don't know anyone else that is planning on getting a OpenMoko device, so its pretty pointless for me at this point. I know you've got to start somewhere, but starting out a battle fighting uphill isn't the best of ideas. what about sacrificing a few bytes at the beginning/end of the compressed data to include to decompress, forward to . If you've got an openmoko/other compression capable phone, this would be disregarded, but for the vanilla phone users out there, forwarding to that number/short code would send the encoded data to a decoding server, which would then call back to the sender with the decompressed message(s). it's not really that good a solution, kind of kludgy, and it would cost whoever you sent the message to several extra texts. On the other hand, it generates some interest, and shows a tangible benefit to purchasing an openmoko phone... for the heavy sms'er this could even start saving them some cash. anyways, I got to thinking of the compatibility problem, and this popped into my head... hopefully it'll help spur some more ideas -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VoIP call transfer?
On 3/28/07, Matthew S. Hamrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew... what you're describing is sometimes called Fixed Mobile Convergence. Or rather, the FMC term has grown to encompass the scenario you describe. according to their website, www.grandcentral.com will provide this kind of service... I didn't dig deep enough to figure out how they do it, but they might provide out of the box access to what you want (they claim to be free). Wish I could give you a thumbs up/down on how it works, but I've only got one phone myself. anyways, check it out if you're interested -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tomtom on the Neo1973
there's been a long running discussion on getting java up and running... what would be the possibility of tying into the gmaps mobile interface? does anyone who reads licences better than I know if this violates the EULA? maybe we could talk google into doing a custom version? they do it for quite a few phone models anyways, my 2 small stone wheels On 4/2/07, Mike Hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (I honestly hate gmails lack of replying to the proper address) On 4/2/07, Tehn Yit Chin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't mean this to be a flippant remark, but how about google map as a OpenStreetMap replacement? Google Maps is not a collection of mapping data, it licenses and pays for from TeleAtlas and Navteq. TomTom gets their data from TeleAtlas. Gmaps is a web interface, whereas TomTom is a device interface. Same backend data. Just to clarify things. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Audio Jack 2.5 mm
On 4/24/07, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to my own mail: I have a motorola that has only one connector: the usb. It works great for hands free. I don't know if this is supported by the neo1973 hardware but if it is, this could be the solution. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Not having intimate dev knowledge of the PCB take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, but most likely the USB port is on a dedicated connection... if the USB controller is integrated in the SOC you've got a chance to talk through the GPIO functions... but we're talking PWM (late 90's ringtone type sounds (probably not mp3 or anything)) the chances that in the current version the audio chip is multiplexed to the usb port is fairly slim... -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
On 4/27/07, Igor Foox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what FIC's plans are for selling the phone through mobile providers in the future, but having 'average joe' buy the handset from FIC directly is _the_ major barier to wider distribution in my opinion. At least in North America, not many 'average joes' buy their handset from anyone but the mobile carrier. So if FIC can get the phone distributed through carriers, I can easily see them having pretty good sales figures. Whether carriers would like to sell an open phone is an entirely different story of course... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community As I understood it, FIC has been planning to sell the NEO hardware under some other OS as well from the very beginning, and that was the model that the cell providers would probably pick up (it could be an asia only phone too... they get all the cool toys). For any of the official guys, do you know if this is still the case? if so, how hard is it to re-flash the firmware? If it's not that hard, and we as the community could work up a real nice, average joe friendly, step by step howto document(complete with simple steps on what to do if you break it), we could have a backup distribution channel ...or maybe I've been cramming too much program logic into SQL SP's for the last 4 hours and I'm just too codeheaded to think straight Either way, thoughts? -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Home-Brew IR port. Was - Please Ignore RS232 message. The subject should read IrDA port... Sorry
stupid gmail... sorry joe On 5/11/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/11/07, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Andros writes: Chicken and egg hoss, there's also no bluetooth remotes out yet to make it worthwhile to have a bluetooth remote... I like the suggestion of a TV sets come with remotes so routinely that the usual chicken/egg problem doesn't seem to arise. Hmmm... which may point a different direction: as long as bluetooth is more expensive than IR... my thought was if you're going to provide a bluetooth remote... it should probably be a universal one since you're jamming enough smarts to work a bluetooth stack in... it'd be killer to have a gateway system that makes everything work together, whether I'm sitting at my laptop, or just walking around with my phone in my pocket. it'd also be cool to not have to walk back out into the house to turn the other TV off when I decide to go to bed -- Jeff O|||O -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB host connector? (was Re: Battery powered charging/USB hub)
On 5/14/07, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/14/07, Doncho N. Gunchev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip However, I too am under the impression that only software is needed to have the USB-connector act like a host. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community as am I, but don't forget you'd need to inject power to run the card reader -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Durability of the Neo1973?
On 5/15/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sean wrote: snip We were all beginning to think the production run was finished and you guys were there at the factory just rolling around on big piles of them. mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community hooray openmoko angels! -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS vs. TDOA (was Re: release date)
I think my question is why is everybody freaking out about the iPhone not having GPS? It will report location as close as 30 meters, usually within 100 meters and almost always within 300 meters. This accuracy is good enough for most applications. Even better cellular TDOA is accurate inside building as well as outside buildings (which in my experience GPS is not). Are location detection services like TruePosition's U-TDOA (used by Cingular and T-Mobile in the USA) not available internationally? Well, for one thing, it's my understanding TDOA is dependent on the cellular provider giving you access to the data. the AGPS on the NEO is capable of running completely autonomously, or it can download the sat position data from any data source. In other words, typically you have to pay for access to the TDOA data (whereas the US government provides GPS for free), and you are always dependent on staying within the network. There are quite a few times I'm outside any coverage area (they start putting up towers in the middle of the national forests, and I'm going to be pissed). Also, the early reports say the NEO's GPS is pretty good within buildings. Anyways, if I'm wrong, let me know, but until then I'm glad we're going with GPS -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
On 6/3/07, Tomasz Zielinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Well, GTA-01 is now definitely dead on arrival. Without finished software is hasn't any chance. My bet: it won't be sold at all, nobody would buy it now. GTA-02 will be the first model on sale. /snip Actually, I think this is great news for developers... personally, I was a little worried about getting my own phone since so many power users would be vying for them... what the openmoko team has done is created a great base platform for the developers to start working on, and given those power users something to hold out for... and this means less competition for the p1 phones for those of us that are going to be making the system software work for the rest of the community... Sean... you rock! -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: FIC Fanboys
http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 This has been up for a while... It's officialishly licensed from the coreteam guys you can check out the thread for it here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003160.html On 6/4/07, Pander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking about the same thing. So where is that scalable vector graphics logo. ;) how about http://www.shirtcity.com/shop/ Chris Fazekas wrote: Sorry, forgot to replyall. -- Forwarded message -- From: Chris Fazekas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Jun 4, 2007 11:19 AM Subject: Re: FIC Fanboys To: Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe someone can talk to jinx.com or a similar company about running a print off? Tell them you don't want any profit, so they can have it all, just want the t-shirts available? Cheers, Chris On 6/4/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any chance we can buy colorful FIC / OpenMoko shirts to display our affection? Cheers, Ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: FIC Fanboys
On 6/4/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 This has been up for a while... It's officialishly licensed from the coreteam guys you can check out the thread for it here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003160.html I've noted this on the wiki -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community involvement todo?
On 6/8/07, Stefan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. So the wiki page should have the following for every single task: Description, needed skills, links to reference code... If nobody beat me, *hint*, I'll add these tasks and perhaps some more to the wiki tonight. regards Stefan Schmidt Are we really suggesting that we manually maintain one set of information about all the tasks on the wiki, and another on the bugtracker? In my experience, it's hard enough to keep devs (myself included) documenting properly, and now we want to double the workload? What it seems you're saying is that the bugtracker isn't working for you, that's cool, but every red flag I have goes up when you're suggesting we duplicate the functionality across multiple systems. Looking at the bugtracker, I can see how it would be pretty daunting to start out, but I really think it would be a better call to fix that than try to keep them synchronized. I think doing anything more than keeping a list of possible first bugs on the wiki is just asking for trouble, but what do the rest of you think we could do to make the bug reports easier to get started on? -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On 6/27/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, snip Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. We're going to have two configurations: Wouldn't you know it... just as I broke down and installed the emulator (I really wanted to wait for hardware) Ain't that how it always goes? Maybe I should have installed earlier? Anyways, that news (openmoko.com) was really worth the wait. Despite some of the grumblers on the list, there are plenty of us who understand how development goes, and how Mr. Murphy always seems to be doing backflips through your project. Thanks for all your hard work -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Guitar Tuner
I noticed Guitar Tuner is in the Application list on the wiki.openmoko.org http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications. Is this app going to be developed by the core developers or is this an idea for the community to develop?Jeff _ Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. It’s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGWL_June07___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: device recovery
On 7/1/07, James Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Your're assuming an awfully clever thief here...I guess it's possible that someone who pickpockets cell phones might know to flash the firmware, but it's probable that most don't--I shouldn't think the majority of common thieves would even be aware of the open nature of the OpenMoko--they'd just think it a shiny, expensive cell, prime for a new SIM. snip well, they won't know of the open nature unless that other thread with the TV ads kicks in and we splash the thing around the interblogosphereweb but seriously, it's not the thief that you really need to worry about being clever... it's his fence, and yeah, some of those guys are clever enough to flash a phone, or know someone who is, so don't assume this, what I'd think about is integrating this functionality into u-boot, where it's harder to get to, then altering the u-boot upgrader to require a password: no password, no flashy. We're talking about reading then sending one line commands to UARTs for a GPS fix, then an sms, I don't see anything that couldn't easily be handled by the bootloader each time the phone is turned on, especially since both the GPS and GSM hardware are separate subsystems I would really hate for anyone to be a tester, but I think it would be interesting to gather data from multiple tracking methods(u-Boot, userland, k-space)-- we could implement all of them easily and then see, as phones were (god forbid) stolen(knock on wood just in case) -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IM application and other questions
On 7/5/07, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Is the IM application SMS based or data plan based? What were you planning to code? Semi-serious. There isn't one. Do we have any pidgin devs on here? how heavy is libpurple, it would be really sweet to build a mobile version (what kind of bird is smaller than a finch? sparrow?) -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IM application and other questions
On 7/5/07, Paul Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Jeff Andros wrote: 1. Is the IM application SMS based or data plan based? What were you planning to code? Semi-serious. There isn't one. Do we have any pidgin devs on here? how heavy is libpurple, it would be really sweet to build a mobile version (what kind of bird is smaller than a finch? sparrow?) I'm the packager for gaim-otr/pidgin-otr. I do hope that pidgin can be build for the Openmoko. I haven't looked at the required effort though. Paul well... I don't think we want to take the whole application: our window manager is designed for full/half screen applications, and doesn't do multiple windows so well. I'm thinking that a new GUI frontend over the top of libpurple would be way more efficient than trying to squeeze all of pidgin completely in. I've only been over their code in a really cursory way (browsed looking for a solution to problems in other code) but the announcements say that all the important stuff has been isolated into libpurple. that said, we might want to go for tighter integration into the core apps. adding new protocols is supposed to be fairly easy... what about adding a protocol for SMS? again, I haven't really looked at the code, but I've been through the buddy list xml, and it seems we should pull those contacts into the openmoko contact manager. what this is all kind of leading up to is running SMS similarly to those pictures of the iphone: more of a conversation style, but integrated with other communication (conversation could seamlessly move between IM and SMS depending on availability) personally, I think if we can get that up and running, I'd make it my SMS program of choice -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ripples on Contact
Sudarshan, Could be really cool, especially as a reply to the iphone people (iphone guy: I've got multitouch! me: my phone ripples, and when I close a window it lights on fire(isn't blowing mac people's minds what beryl's for?)) but I really think it's something that should be able to turn off REALLY quick... something that would get annoying very fast. as for performance, the version released october-ish was announced to have a graphics accellerator onboard... if you can offload your effect to that, shouldn't be a problem really makes you wonder about a version of beryl for mobile devices... you could create a lot of effects... as long as it's as easy to switch back and forth, I'm a fan On 7/7/07, Sudharshan S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, I got this idea of a small eye candy after having a look at beryl. How about when, someone touches the touchscreen ripples get generated with the point of contact as the centre. Am not sure how useful this could be but, i feel this would be a nice fluidy feedback to the onscreen keyboard. Given the FPU on the neo, I am also curious what kind of performance deteriotation we are looking at and the difficulty level in implementing such a hack. Regards Sudharshan S http://www.sudharsh.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
adding data services with t.mobile for neo 1973
The one guideline you need to be aware of is that you CAN NOT get data GPRS or EDGE on a pay as you go plan (T-Mobile to go). It has to be on a post paid monthly account. To my knowledge and research, neither ATT or T-Mobile will permit a data package on a pay as you go basis. It wouldn't be the first time their webpage was wrong, but the T-mobile page for pay-as-you-go (which I have) says you can add Internet access, which they call their SideKick feature, for $1/day. I haven't tried it, and it certainly is more expensive than your $5.99/mo option. (just placed an order for a Neo1973 and looking forward to developing) -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
gmail problems
First off, I apologize for the dupes some of you are going to get from this message. Secondly, I'd like to know, has anyone contacted google about the duplicate problem? If not, I'll do it tonight, but I'd like to have more than just some people have been reporting a problem I've seen some server logs come across the list, I'll dig through and find those, but for those that can, I'd like to have enough of that available for them to troubleshoot, so if you can send me that to forward on to them, I'll make our case known -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail problems
On 7/13/07, Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working in the Gmail group this summer and I'm currently in contact with appropriate people about this. I hope to have something to report later today. Thanks, Marco awesome, I was starting to worry that it was going to be a bunch of people grousing about a problem, and no one doing anything about it. Thank you for taking care of this -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finally I received another response from OpenMoko Shop
yeah... I got one of those too... I don't want to bother any of the guys... but it sure would be nice to get a we received your reply email, it's cool you're a developer, and we've reserved the orange model you requested(yeah, I'm down with the orange... ya'll can have the boring black and silver ;-) ), but personally I definately put priority on the great work ya'll have been doing over there in taiwan Thank you so much --Jeff On 7/14/07, Krzysztof Kajkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I want to share with you that I received another mail from OpenMoko Shop which seems to be sent to everyone. Here it goes (if anyone's curious): Dear Valued Customer, since there has been some misunderstanding, we just want you to confirm one more time that you are aware that our products at this point in time ARE NOT END-USER DEVICES! So please let us warn you one more time: THIS IS A DEVELOPER RELEASE, NOT A CONSUMER PRODUCT!| For more information about what to expect from this very early developer preview, please see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview If you would like to continue this purchase, please reply to this email with the simple string YES_I_DO (all uppercase and with underscores) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response to this email. If you choose to cancel your order, please reply using the word CANCEL (uppercase) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response email. Please note that it is important to leave the subject of the mail intact, and that your response comes from the original email that you used to make this order. Also, if you ordered at a point in time where there was no color selection available in the shop, your order has been automatically marked as BLACK/SILVER. If this is fine with you, there is no additional action required. If you wish to receive the WHITE/ORANGE design, please send a mail with the word ORANGE (uppercase) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response email. We apologize for any inconvenience, The OpenMoko order processing team It's good to know that OM team is working hard to process all these request and it seems that the project has drawn realy big attention ;-) cheers cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: natural selection
On 7/14/07, Visti Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:39:41 +0200 Christian Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I begin to wonder if there is some game to play. Perhaps LaForges blogentry and that shop mail would filter those I just want a Neo to play but i'm still not sure what i will do with it-people - like me. Not enough phones for creative guys? Greez I'm quite certain that the YES_I_DO e-mail is just a curtsy and safe guard. They are just trying to avoid disappointed customers, it's after all an expensive device, that just isn't ready to be used (by my mom) yet. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ok, as a (very) interested developer, I'm seeing some issues here. There are a bunch of you who'd love to get your hands on a phone, and start playing with it. I also know that there were less than 1000 phones that made it out of QA from this first round. Sean's stated they've got a 4-6 week lead time. If all or most of those first round phones go to people who aren't developing, that puts us back a month or more. If the October release is going to happen on time, the software must be ready too, which means that we need developers working on it now Coming from the other side, however, I've also seen how important good testers are, and most of those are NOT developers. Most developer test reports I've seen are tend to be haphazard and biased (especially if they don't want to admit that something they wrote caused the problem (if ya'll think I'm being harsh, realize I lump myself in here too... seriously, this is one place where our egos get in the way)) Personally, I think the optimum solution is a second run of GTA01 phones go out in like early august, with these earmarked for alpha/beta testers. Yeah, I realize it's a while to wait, and I spent the last 9 months trying not to pee my pants with anticipation too, but in addition to having a toy to play with right now, we have to think beyond this first release... we've gotten quite a bit of press talk, and if we want to be anything other than another phone that tried to compete with the iPhone, we've got to really make a good impression at launch time, it's something we're going to have to all work for to make happen. While trying not to sound like a douche-bag (and probably failing miserably)I see purchasing one of these from the first limited release as a promise and obligation to spend my time to improve the system... otherwise I'm just taking it from someone else who would -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Clare Johnstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/15/07, Joe Friedrichsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . We have a *touch screen* folks! Why use a widget that was made to replace tactile interaction when the whole screen can be a widget? Seems like a little overly zealous retrofitting. . . This carburettor will fit on the electric car, dag nab it! ;-) quite, Acrobat does it, But even better my laptop has a synaptics touchpad, and Seamonkey can make use of it. stroke up and down the right side to scroll the web page, stroke across the bottom to zoom or unzoom. (But it is a bit sensitive, I hate the thought of accidentally dialling someone due to a slight tremor of my finger.) clare ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community the only down side I see to this is fixing all the OE apps that use scrollbars... that said, I really like this idea from a UI standpoint... it's easier to make circular motions with your fingers than straight lines, scrollbars work good with a mouse since it's easier to move in straight lines with one. we need a way to select which on-screen item to scroll if there's more than one (for simplicity's sake this should be a rare occurance... but web sites love scrollable elements). but it should be really easy to switch from hand to hand... just have a right and left mirrored scroll widget, and skin that bottom bar so it can exist either on the left or right hand side of the screen... there should be a way to make the spinner minimize... it does eat a lot of screen resolution... I'd try it but before I got Qemu working, X kind of ate it on my box, and I've been confined to the windows laptop I get from work... they won't even let me set it up to dual-boot -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for openmoko - bugsafe?
Edwin Lock wrote: My main point was if the state, well, anyone who had connections to the carriers, could turn the neo into a bug too.. And it seems that it isn't possible cause of the software mixer being off when the device is off :) Actually one may want to implement this on the OpenMoko themselves, as a phone-theft tracking system. Imagine being able to call your missing phone and enable at least GPS tracking so you can recover it. Being able to switch on audio recording to the flash storage, with periodic burst transmission to an Internet location of GPS points, audio samples and such might be useful for some applications as well. Leave it in a taxi in New York and plot the conversations and locations on a webpage, as part of a reality show... ;-) BTW, anyone have good leads on small Bluetooth camera lapel pins? It would be cool to have the OpenMoko able to record/recognize the faces of people I meet or places I visit. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment
Al Johnson wrote: I was going to suggest this too. This is the approach taken for the Neuros OSD, another linux-based device. It would give a known-working build and test environment, rather than having potential developers spending time trying to put such an environment together. Mokomakefile is good, but I just can't get the qemu to build under gentoo. A good idea re providing a VM. BTW, I run Gentoo also and QEMU using Mokomakefile built with no problems here. Are you trying to do it with GCC 4.x? It supposedly is a known bug and you need to use GCC 3.x. Fortunately you can have both installed at the same time and use them where needed. I have GCC 3.x set as the default compiler. # equery list gcc [I--] [ -] sys-devel/gcc-3.4.6-r2 (3.4) [I--] [ -] sys-devel/gcc-4.1.2 (4.1) -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gentoo qemu (was Re: Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment)
Al Johnson wrote:
On Monday 16 July 2007 11:38, Jeff Rush wrote:
Al Johnson wrote:
I was going to suggest this too. This is the approach taken for the
Neuros OSD, another linux-based device. It would give a known-working
build and test environment, rather than having potential developers
spending time trying to put such an environment together. Mokomakefile is
good, but I just can't get the qemu to build under gentoo.
A good idea re providing a VM. BTW, I run Gentoo also and QEMU using
Mokomakefile built with no problems here. Are you trying to do it with GCC
4.x? It supposedly is a known bug and you need to use GCC 3.x.
Fortunately you can have both installed at the same time and use them where
needed. I have GCC 3.x set as the default compiler.
# equery list gcc
[I--] [ -] sys-devel/gcc-3.4.6-r2 (3.4)
[I--] [ -] sys-devel/gcc-4.1.2 (4.1)
I have both too, and use gcc-config to switch when emerging qemu. If I select
3.4.6 with gcc-config then run 'make qemu' mtn complains:
mtn: /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/libstdc++.so.6:
version 'GLIBCXX_3.4.6' not found (required by mtn)
mtn: /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/libstdc++.so.6:
version 'CXXABI_1.3.1' not found (required by mtn)
Makefile: 28: *** Cannot determine version for monotone using mtn -version.
Stop.
Hmm, the interesting thing there is that monotone requires a *double* dash for
long options, so manually doing mtn -version will indeed fail. In my
Makefile re the MokoMakefile, I have it with a double dash:
MTN_VERSION := $(shell mtn --version | awk '{ print $$2; }')
... in case this helps at all. I don't see any way to determine the version
of Makefile I have.
-Jeff
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Re: Free OpenMoko...
wow... really interesting that the people in the testimonials already have theirs even though the first shipment just got through customs... they must have P0 versions. also interesting that the whois record for that domain is private On 7/17/07, Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone seen this? http://www.freeopenmoko.com/ Weird, huh? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: projects of interest?
On 7/17/07, Who [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/17/07, Daniel Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I'm dreaming of being able to fit a keyboard (perhaps an old one from my Psion) snip keyboard wise, I've been thinking of just using a bluetooth mini keyboard for most of my big text entry... short texts and everything could go with the onscreen keyboard, but just about everything else would be over bluetooth does anyone have experience with the frogpad? how bad is it to learn to type? I've been wondering about it, but I'm pretty fast on qwerty... but I like that the frogpad doesn't have to unfold, and it's one-handed this would also rock with a bluetooth upgrade http://www.matias.ca/halfkeyboard/index.php this would give me more flexibility: like with my old compaq tabletPC, I could leave the keyboard at home if I wanted to travel light, and it disconnects the screen angle/position from where the keyboard is physically located (put the keyboard on my lap, and hold the neo up higher where I could see if I was sitting for instance I also see the lanyard hole making a great way to attatch a desk-stand to hold the neo upright: plug something with another 2 legs in that comes out the back and hooks around the front of the case anyways, thought I'd share -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping update
On 7/17/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted Lemon wrote: Sean, probably a dumb question, but I'm leaving for IETF on Saturday, so I'm really hoping that my two-day delivery will get the phone here by Friday. I don't desperately need it before IETF - I just don't want it sitting on my front stoop for a week (well, for that part of a week before it's stolen!). Is there any chance that we'll get some kind of notification/tracking information when the phones ship? Yes. We'll send you all tracking numbers with your charge confirmation. Sorry to hassle you - I know things must be really busy. Congrats on getting the first batch through customs! :-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community hmmm, it's too bad we don't have GPS with some kind of wireless connection in each package... to see exactly where it's at... ;-) there's going to be a couple of useless days continually checking the tracking data -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ringtones?
it might be worth while to have no other notification except a script fired off when the call comes in (think SVN hooks) It would allow you to customize logging(fork off a call log script), and make it really easy for other applications to provide call-based services (I.E. if the call is not answered in 30 seconds, and wifi is available, attempt to run as a voip gateway and route the call to your [desktop|server|voip answering machine service]). oh yeah, and it might pull up some kind of audio player so you can hear it ring -- Jeff O|||O On 7/18/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18 Jul 2007, at 21:11, Kero van Gelder wrote: gtones can't be an application. So long as the app starts and ends fast. application ? some playing daemon that listens on dbus? No, I mean any music or sound generating application that can be invoked and stopped using the command line. A mod player, sid player, random sound generating command. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ringtones?
I haven't used a mac other than casually (checking email) since os9... so I'm not so up on growl. I'd like basically arbitrary code execution, but with some (read LOTS) of protection on how that gets registered (can't let Sean's dad install malware that fire off every time the phone rings, can we?). I'm also still liking a shell script that gets fired off, yeah, it's got a bit of overhead, but if you get into binary programs as fast as possible, and just use the script to link up the purpose built programs (I.E. the whole reason shell scripts exist) it might not be too bad... something to investigate I guess On 7/18/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18 Jul 2007, at 23:39, Jeff Andros wrote: Maybe go one step further... set it up as an observer pattern inside the os. you could build a simple GUI that wraps around it, but also other programs could register to be notified on a phone action (damn, I really need to go over the code... this might already be implemented) I like the idea of moving away from the shell for things like this, getting into faster, native code, but it would be really nice to be able to fall back on shell scripting when you need something quick and dirty... I admit to running a poll on www.openmoko.com the night before it went live (it was only every 5 minutes, and I took it down once the site changed) with a bash script took 5 minutes or so to write (yeah, I built a command line IM daemon that took up the other 3 hours or so) Indeed, I'm thinking something like Growl on the Mac, but not limited to visual notifications. http://growl.info/screenshots.php ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Unusual Bluetooth Gadgets?
I was thinking this phone has so many possibilities, and one of them is neat bluetooth gadgets we could make use of. But searching I don't see a lot of innovative bluetooth gadgets to buy. Has anyone seen a small bluetooth camera you can wear on your lapel? Even if it was the size of a bluetooth earpiece, it would work as a piece of jewelry on a collar. And is there a small bluetooth microphone suitable on a lapel as well, for recording those interviews? Instead of picking up just your voice via bone conduction or some such it picks up the audio from in front of you with a focused area. Maybe I don't hang out on the right gadget website. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
On 7/19/07, Jim McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, first time you mentioned Firefox, I thought you meant browser and/or GUI stuff. But you focus on extensions/plugins :) Sorry yep was thinking of the design philosophy rather than the specifics. If I look at my own install I have four of five extensions (out of a few thousand) that I use and their cumulative impact is to make Firefox far more useful *to me* than any other browser out there on the market. Any place where you can hook in little snippets of code will do. I think I'll play with a few modules I can see interact here (addressbook, agenda, IM client (mostly its away settings); I'll mock them for starters) and how to aggregate the decisions from those modules on what to do with an incoming call/SMS/... I will use dbus, but that says nothing about the actual format/info sent over that bus. I'll be off-line over the weekend, but with some luck, I'll have a bit of code (i.e. showing format/info) to show Sun or Mon. Yep I think I'll see if I can grab some time over the weekend to put together some words and diagrams explaining what I'm thinking about and how it would fit in to the general 'phone framework. Cheers, Jim. ok, but here's the thing with having full plugin framework: what if two plugins take mutually exclusive actions (I.E. one plugin has a whitelist, it tries to answer the phone because it's the girlfriend, but the other plugin attempts to send the call to voicemail because your gps says you're in a movie theatre) who should win? I think we need to take one step beyond independent plugins: When the event is fired, it notifies all the plugins that the event has fired. each plugin checks what it thinks should happen, if it's an event that does not require taking over the call, it performs it's action and exits with a priority 0 (or 0... it's more unixy) if the plugin thinks it should have control of the call, it returns with a positive value. once all plugins have performed their checks (these should be FAST!!! DO NOT CODE CRAZY ACTIONS HERE!!!) each plugin's score is weighted (whitelists are modified *2... movie theatre is modified *1.5), weights being user configurable, then whichever plugin has the highest total score gets control of the call... it can then take whatever actions it needs to. There should be a couple of callback functions for those crazy actions that would take too long to run during the check ones I see are: setCallBackAfterCall() -- fires a handler after the call has been finished ( I.E. after you hang up, or after the call is rejected). This is where the send text message would be processed, since we want to wait until the network is available again setCallBackAfterProcess() -- fires a handler after someone wins the call... this is where you'd put things that aren't network dependent, and can happen while the call is getting processed (I.E. while you're talking to someone) I'm kind of at a loss in how to create a really nice gui for this kind of stuff... and events aren't limited to just incoming calls of course... but yeah, it gives us a really nice way to handle calls ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff ASU Alumni 07 Go Devils!!! O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Steven ** wrote: Is that searchable? Is it threaded? Will there be someone on 24/7 that is knowledgable and helpful? I understand that some people love IRC and mailing lists. But users expect to search and ask questions in a forum, not on a mailing list and IRC. I think it's about time for some forums. I'm not sure where you get users expect to search and ask questions in a forum from. And how does a forum provide 24/7 someone knowledgeable in such a way that a mailing list cannot. I'm confused. Mailing lists aren't exactly fading away, and many people dislike forums. In this case, it won't help if those with questions i.e. users flock to the forums, if those with the answers, the more core developers use mailing lists. You'll need community concensus, or a team to copy material between the two discussion arenas, similiar to how we have people who have stepped forward (thanks!) who clip useful stuff from the lists and put it on the wiki. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
I've been reading the archives of the various OpenMoko lists and I've noticed a significant number of people who admit they are not programmers at all, or that this is their first exposure to Linux. I'm curious what a non-programmer is going to do with this device in the next few months. And if your first use of Linux is on the device itself, and you run Windows on your desktop, how you're going to grow your Linux skills and effectively develop applications. Just seems odd to me, but maybe I'm overlooking something. ;-) BTW, there are threads of discussion here that are answered by digging into the source code released so far. I've seen some people asking the OpenMoko team to spell how how this or that is going to be done (events from calls) -- guys, its in the source and at this stage we're expected to be developers. While waiting for our oders, we should be setting up our development environment, reading thru the source given so far, and writing test programs to run within the QEMU environment, to get ready. I doubt once the device arrives in the mail that it will come with a manual that makes all things clear or that the functionality on the device will be useful for much by itself -- you'll still have to dive into the source. As an embedded developer myself, the less than smooth way things are unfolding and the rough nature of the device itself are normal and expected when engineering a new device. Those used to a consumer device may not understand this as they rarely get a peek into the process like FIC is giving us. And I'd just like to say to the OpenMoko team thanks for giving us this device and opening it up so that we can participate in its shaping. That many decisions on how things are going to be done are not yet made is a -good- thing, people. The journey is the reward for geeks, not the final destination of a polished, shrink-wrap consumer gadget. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Mathew Davis wrote: And I don't understand why we can't have both. I really don't see the problem so if someone could explain why not having a forum would be advantageous and not just personal preferance I am all ears, because I could list a lot of reasons why forums could be advantageous. I appreciate your viewpoint but here are a few reasons: 1. Our community is small -- spreading the discussions thinly before we have reached critical mass will dilute the synergy. We are just now starting to come together as a community, and I think we even have too many mailing lists as it is (not always clear on which one to discuss X). 2. The OpenMoko team at FIC are spread _very_ thin and lack the time/resources to research and establish a forum themselves. They were overloaded just getting a basic storefront up. I don't understand why a company the size of FIC isn't providing more logistics support to them, so they can focus on the hardware/software but that's the way it is today. 3. Because of #2 and the fact this is the world of free/open, groups are welcome to establish a forum someplace and announce it here. In fact no one can stop it. Then instead of debating it you apply the governance principle of open source, in that if you build it will they come. If so, you were right. If not, you were wrong. A very objective approach. And for those (another thread) who are looking for someone official to tell them how this or that is going to be done on the device, I think we as a community will be applying #3 above - teams will form and follow their (quite likely divergent) visions. Those who (1) produce results that (2) some significant portion of the community approve of will have their work integrated into the core as required/optional packages. And some fraction of those will be cherry-picked by FIC for delivery in the consumer distribution. And perhaps other flash images will arise targeted at the power user and the gaming user and the multimedia user. Being open source folks and time-constrained themselves, I rather think that the OpenMoko team will be blessing running code and not managing the various teams that form. And that is good, because they cannot see the future uses of this device any better than we at this point. Not a planned economy but a chaotic marketplace of competing ideas, where decisions are made in the free/opensource tradition of running code and rough concensus. Scary sure, but also refreshing and very exciting. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Geek holsters
On 7/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 20 July 2007 11:46, Ewan Oughton wrote: Has there been any research into any geek holsters that would fit the moko? Check out this one: http://tabletblog.com/2007/05/urban-tool-gadget-hip-holster-review.html For me it is a little too geeky though ;-) Felix ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community if you want to go that route, the maxpedition versipacks are same idea, different style... http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=4 -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
Ortwin Regel wrote: Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux experience was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to something that didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now. It's the phone I've been waiting for for about four years. Ortwin, with such strong feelings, I need this phone and I need it now, you must have certain specific requirements for putting it to use. Certainly we all have our wish list with lots of far out ideas but what do you need to phone to do first, to meet these four-year-pent-up demands, from before the OpenMoko even existed? Basically you're speaking as someone frustrated with something in particular. I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;) Certainly I'll help. I'm hoping to produce a series of screencasts about the phone. My first, just an overview for those wondering what the heck an OpenMoko is that I gave last week at the local DFW Unix Users group, can be found at: http://www.showmedo.com/videos/video?name=104fromSeriesID=104 I'm planning a talk on the hardware, and another on the underlying software architecture. In my mind, I divide the audience into those who are system programmers (kernel/driver folks) and those who are application programmers (high-level lang + defined service interfaces). Besides being an embedded systems engineer, I'm also the advocacy coordinator for Python and hope to encourage and support those who want to build their apps using Python. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qemu trouble...
Lars Hallberg wrote: Daniel Robinson skrev: Hey Lars, Huzzah to you, sir, for getting that far. I got my ubuntu system up yesterday, but I haven't gotten some of the other pieces working. I haven't used OpenEmbedded or bitbake before. I use perforce at work. I have not set up a complete build env (don't have room)... Just build the qemu according to Manual setup on: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU And downloaded prebuilt kernel, rootfs and u-boot... all in the above instructions. The 'extra' preparation I did was: install gcc 3.4 and run: # apt-get build-dep qemu I've not had the problems I'm seeing discussed on this list but then I used the MokoMakefile approach. One thing to note -- the OpenMoko build system comes with its own version of QEMU, with changes specific to the Neo1973. Running a stock QEMU outside the build environment will probably limit what you can do, in particular it lacks the virtual Neo1973 hardware they added. Re a few of the troubles, - Giles, I didn't have to modify any .h files to make it work, nor did I see any problems with the 8ma power you saw. - Lars, Yes, the onscreen keyboard does work, as in the GUI keyboard you click on with the mouse. I click in the upper-left box (white area, not icon) and the onscreen keyboard comes up in my QEMU image. - out of the box, it does not let you type into it using your desktop keyboard but you can add -usbdevice keyboard to make it work - I can say that the ability to 'ssh' into the QEMU does work here, but it requires a few steps in the QEMU monitor each time you use it re usb_add gadget:1 that cannot be automated. - To network into the QEMU image you must have gadget support in your host kernel. The Neo1973 docs talk about having a /dev/gadget file, for example with a gadgetfs mounted on it. I have to create it by hand each time I boot, as the udev system doesn't keep it around on my Gentoo system. I checked the source and you cannot move it elsewhere - the path is hardcoded. I hopes this helps, -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko trademark issues...
Jae Stutzman wrote: OpenMoko.Inc needs to have a clear trademark policy on the name OpenMoko and associated logo, etc. Right now the maemo people are going through some stuff do to recent changes. This is something that Sean and co need to figure out. If it is already figgured out then it should be posted somewhere on the wiki...a quick search for trademark reveals nothing. Yes a good thing to bring up, what with us all using their name and mark in volunteer stuff. As Cassj said, they have the legal work done to claim the marks but they do need a policy by which we the community can use them to promote OpenMoko. I'm sure other communities have this issue too. The Python community wants the Python trademark to be used to promote Python, in acceptable ways. The OpenMoko team can probably clip and rework the explanatory material to come up with their own policy. And if others know of good policy write-ups on other community trademarks, let's get them to Sean for his consideration. The Python trademark policy can be read at: http://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/ I think it is a pretty reasonable one. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: building openmoko devel image
Charles Lohr wrote: To any willing to help: I'm a gentoo user who is considering buying one of the FIC1973 phones for developing new software for. I figured I should be able to 'make' the phone before buying it. Note that if this is being sent to the wrong list, please direct me in the right direction. If we get into too many details, it might be best to move it to openmoko-devel but quick questions are hopefully ok. I run Gentoo here as well, and have it working, so there is hope. ;-) I have been following the instructions on: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#Installation Every time I try building, I first get a list of errors like: NOTE: Handling BitBake files: | (4323/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: / (4324/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '1828', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: - (4325/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: \ (4326/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '1828', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: \ (4327/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] Those are not errors, just status messages, I believe. Originally, I kept getting missing stuff for my java messages, but after getting the JDK patched and working, I finally settled on this error that I just can't seem to fix: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ equery list jre [ Searching for package 'jre' in all categories among: ] * installed packages [I--] [ -] dev-java/blackdown-jre-1.4.2.03-r14 (1.4.2) [I--] [ -] dev-java/sun-jre-bin-1.6.0.02 (1.6) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.4.2 (1.4) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.5.0 (1.5) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.6.0 (1.6) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ eselect java-vm show Current system-vm sun-jdk-1.5 Current user-vm sun-jdk-1.5 Just FYI. `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' | jar cf libintl.jar gnu/gettext/GettextResource*.class | Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf | make[4]: *** [libintl.jar] Error 1 | make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' | make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 | make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' | make[2]: *** [all] Error 2 | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' | make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1' | FATAL: oe_runmake failed NOTE: Task failed: /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/temp/log.do_compile.25316 NOTE: package gettext-native-0.14.1-r4: task do_compile: failed ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting NOTE: package gettext-native-0.14.1: failed ERROR: Build of openmoko-devel-image failed make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 Is there any way to actually view what the Makefile is doing when it just sits there and then this thing pops up, like verbose output or something? There are logfiles, listed in your output, that might help. The one relate to the failing compile is: /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/temp/log.do_compile.25316 There are *lots* of logfiles created by the build process under the directory build/tmp/work/ directory. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
What would be kind of cool for the next model, is a clear window in the back of the case, with a plug-in module system behind it. If we could bring the camera interface as well as I2C and SPI out to a connector right there, the people who want a camera to take drunken blackmail shots of their friends can do so, and those who need to pull the camera can put something else in that slot. -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
app idea
I feel almost stupid saying this, but there are quite a few people out there who are ringtone fanatics (personally, I can't understand paying 3.99 for a 30 second song clip... especially because you can't find one that's appropriate everywhere) to that end, what about a simple ringtone repository? simply put, you either download over the air, USB, or wifi, search and download from a library of CC and fair use tones. The next step is to put an onboard ringtone recorder/composer into the phone, and let people make their own free ringtones (and publish up to the repository) -- (I think we'd need a DMCA I'm the copyright holder thing to be legal... and warnings up the yin-yang: don't upload copyrighted material) it could probably even be web based, with a special browser plugin (secondary select (tap and hold?) then select make this sound my ringtone for .mp3, .ogg, or .aac files) When we're advertising, maybe we can make this a selling point... break free from your carrier's stupid fees, and quit paying for something that could be free, get your ringtone fix without breaking the bank, or they say you're getting a free phone, but is it really free? anyways, like I said, it feels a little lame suggesting this, but I think it could be big with the general populace. Thoughts? -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: app idea
On 7/23/07, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/23/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED]https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there are quite a few people out there who are ringtone fanatics (personally, I can't understand paying 3.99 for a 30 second song clip... I'm with you 100% here. An app that allows users to make their own ringtones for shareage would be great. Throw in the ability to use a full length song stored on the phone, the option of offsetting the beginning of the song to n seconds and the ability to share that 30 sec clip with friends who wish they had a Neo ( :-P) and you've got a killer app. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.orghttps://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community well, um, I just had a thought on this too... I don't know about other places, but in the US the telco operators make a sizeable chunk of change on ringtones, if this functionality is straight out of the box, the chances that we're going to get picked up by a major operator just hit nil (I'm having nightmare visions of crippled neos being offered) maybe, for the good of the project, this should be developed outside of the openmoko project... Once the phone gets picked up by operators, then we can go big with this feature (yeah, I think it could be a killer app for a phone as long as the interface to create a ringtone rocks(joe and suzy consumer aren't going to want to deal with frequency/duration data)) -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Additional: Re: Multi-touch, screen size, and case shape.
On 7/23/07, Cailan Halliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I truly believe in this quote, I also found it on openmoko.com. Both multi-touch and a minimalist case truly supports this ideal: snip -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ok, here's what's up: the phone body we're using was a device that was being designed by FIC for another customer. From traffic on this list, t seems that the deal with that other customer fell through. I'm guessing that one of the reasons FIC was willing to go through with the whole thing was to make SOMETHING from the investment they made from that other customer (It seemed like a lot of dev work had gone into the system already in November when this was first announced) yeah, with what this project has become, the hardware is sub-optimal. The goal now is to have enough of a positive response that someone wants to pick up the hardware development costs for the second generation device (or maybe that's why openmoko is now its own company). Anyways, it's about 6 months past the time to make such major changes, we've got to either make the current device work for us, and a whole lot of other people, or we've got to peg our hopes on the next device. Personally, I'm of the make it work camp, and I think with the team Sean's put together (dude, harald, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know) and the community we've got, we can make it happen -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, then, why not have forums for people who want them, and leave email for people who don't want them? The thing is, it doesn't work very well in practice. If experience is any guide, then the technically knowledgable people will use email, and won't waste much time on the forums. But a project at the current stage of the openmoko project will require lots of *technical* help for everyone, so what will happen is that you will have to follow the email lists anyway... I mean -- I could be wrong, but that's the way things seem to go with this kind of project. I agree with you, but no amount of debate will convince anyone and it is just wasting bandwidth. We're going to find out by experimentation but I expect a repeat of the Golgafrincham civilisation from the Hitchhiker's Guide. There are already similarities, re what people expect from fire and what color the wheel should be. ;-) Those with the questions will hang out on the forum and those with the answers will use the mailing lists, and people will grumble about the unhelpful developers not coming over to the forum to help. I'm actually looking forward to the forums, to reduce that kind of traffic on this list. Sadly, I know of several people who have unsubscribed from this list because of it, and switched exclusively to the devel lists instead. Come on over to distro-devel and let's talk about builds and drivers! Let's get started working on the apps on the openmoko-devel list! -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: app idea
yeah, but they seem to be in the minority (my cingular SE phone works properly too) I'm thinking of going a step beyond this: not requiring you to whip out your computer at all. My Sony Ericsson has a program called Music DJ that I think I've played with all of twice, but it will let you mix loops to create your own ringtone... what if we go a step farther, and create a composition program with social aspects... allow you to record or create a ringtone on the device itself. The other part that makes this really cool is then uploading this to a sharing site... yes, I know, there's the chance that you record some song off the radio, so we need something to deal with DMCA (it seems a message that says don't freaking put copyrighted stuff here is no longer sufficient). Again, I'm having nightmares of people turning recordings of their kids screaming and worse into ringtones... but I think this could be one of the apps that really turns on the mass market On 7/24/07, Steven Milburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cingular/ATT doesn't seem to have any problem with letting users make their own ring tones. On my Samsung SGH-A707, I can select any MP3 file under 1MB as a ring tone. I have a couple on my phone that I edited with GarageBand to select a small enough clip and then downloaded to my phone. --Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.orghttps://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate message troubleshooting
Nicolas Bougues wrote: Here is the kind of things my SMTP relay logs while talking to openmoko's list server : Jul 24 18:46:21 cassis postfix/smtp[9586]: 7E28BE0BA0: to=community@lists.openmoko.org, relay=sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203]:25, delay=12360, delays=12279/0.16/0.15/80, dsn=4.4.2, status=deferred ( conversation with sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203] timed out while sending end of data -- message may be sent more than once) There is a fair amount of those messages concerning openmoko, and just one or two regarding other destinations (out of 25000+ mails relayed yesterday). I only posted once or twice to the list before, and no such behavior was encountered. Unfortunatly, I don't have further SMTP traces. Could there be some connectivity problem, maybe firewall related, on openmoko's side ? The problem is their SMTP server is taking its own sweet time recognizing the end-of-message sequence, so peer MUAs are starting to timeout instead. Here is a manual session: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ telnet sita.openmoko.org smtp Trying 88.198.124.203... Connected to sita.openmoko.org. Escape character is '^]'. 220 sita.openmoko.org ESMTP Exim 4.50 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:37:31 +0200 EHLO taupro.com 250-sita.openmoko.org Hello adsl-68-95-135-33.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net [68.95.135.33] 250-SIZE 52428800 250-PIPELINING 250 HELP RCPT: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 500 unrecognized command MAIL FORM 500 unrecognized command MAIL FROM:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 250 OK RCPT TO:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 550 unknown user RCPT TO:community@lists.openmoko.org 250 Accepted DATA 354 Enter message, ending with . on a line by itself Date: 25 Jul 2007 03:34:00 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Diagnostic Message This is a probe message to diagnose the SMTP problems. Please ignore. . (very long idle interval of 5 minutes or so) 250 OK id=1IDcPE-0002wr-QA It may be running off to validate the sender domain name to prevent spam, but is taking too long I think - perhaps an inefficient DNS arrangement. There are issues with their DNS, as this validator shows: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=openmoko.org with the biggest problem being stealth NS records with leakage, which can wreak havoc with timeouts. And yes, I copied the -owner of the community list. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
WARNING: replies to multiple messages Richard said: If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc. Some of us are waiting for hardware... don't get me wrong, you can do a lot with an emulator, I've just been bitten more than enough times by it worked in sim. I can wait patiently for the hardware to get here, then I'll probably be much more active on the wiki On 7/24/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, you need to have a forum that is set up to work like a mailing list. No editing, threaded discussion. Don't have a flat format. I don't see what's wrong with that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Despising forums, I haven't really checked, but isn't this what gmane is for? I think it's already been made... and discussed to death -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
On 7/26/07, Mark Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it does boot to Kernel panic - not syncing: No init found. But it has a penguin on-screen :-) and thus you are one step above any phone I've ever seen -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Phone arrive! - Torx required?
Yay, my basic Neo1973 arrived today. It looks quite cool smaller than I expected and lightweight. But I think I'm about to fail my geek status - can't figure out how to insert the microSD card that came with it, without full disassembly of the unit. I, uh, don't own a Torx toolset and didn't order the advanced model with tools. I later decided I should have, but when I found out that changes move you to the back of the order line, I stayed with the basic unit. So, microSD installation w/o a Torx tool? And I guess a guitar pick as well, to get at the back of the PCB? -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
