Re: mxDateTime on Openmoko?
> arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1': execvp: No > such file or directory > failure. Do you have cpp and all the gcc related packages installed? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
> It's worth bearing in mind that Alcatel appear to own patents > on MP3 too as they recently got US$1.5 billion in damages from > Microsoft for infringement of them.. > > http://ipgeek.blogspot.com/2007/02/you-thought-paying-sisvel-ended-your.html The top google hit ( its over a year old) isn't always the best: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10051243-75.html MS won the appeal on that case. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT] First rumors about first Google phone
Even if the code is open, will the hardware be? The hardware could easily check if the software has been changed and then cut power. Hopefully there will at least be some interesting bits to borrow. On 9/24/08, Cédric Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 19:21, David Samblas >> any news about the real openess of android? >> > first phone has just been announced to be released, and then the code > should be open sourced : > > http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/09/announcing-android-10-sdk-release-1.html > > "So what's next for us? Well, we'll keep working on the SDK, as I > said. But we're also working hard with our partners in the Open > Handset Alliance on the open-source release, with the aim of making > the code available in the fourth quarter > " > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SD slot + suspend
If you search the list, this is discussed to death with several work arounds. On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Daniel Benoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've been having trouble with my SD card ever since I upgraded my kernel (with > the unstable feed) and turned on suspend... specifically, it got wiped out :( > Multiple times. I don't know if it's a coincidence or now.. I wonder if > someone who's brave and doesn't have important data on their card could try > reproducing this? Mount a partition and/or run something like > badblocks /dev/mmcblk0 and then while that's going suspsend... and see if > your data goes poof. > > Maybe it's just me.. possibly a defective SD card. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Please split this list!
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:24 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I second that idea. > Mainly because it is difficult to understand which context people are > talking in... most people don't remember to say which distro they are > using, and frankly I don't think they should have to... > And it does make a big difference. > Maybe keep this list as a distro-neutral list, and add new ones for > OM2008.8, FSO, Debian, etc Do you think since people are already not taking the time to add details to their email, that they suddenly take the time send to the proper list or tag their subject in some way? The only thing you can really do it educate people on sending better emails. Any time you see a new message which doesn't provide relevant details, let them know. What distribution? When did you last update? What is the version of the package in question? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Alex Fitzpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yogiz wrote: >>> known features of GTA04: >>> - DBI (Direct Brain Interface) >>> - trans warp gate projector >>> - battery is replaced with a blackhole for infinite power >>> - timemachine >>> - build in stylus >>> >> Ah, a stylus holder. Most excellent. >> > Surely with the DBI the stylus is redundant? What kind of nonsense is > this anyway? Please, without a stylus, spare blackholes, and properly audio couplers this this phone will never reach the mass market. They're must have features. Not to mention it needs a pony too; no consumer would accept a phone without these essential features. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fourth Request: What is the warranty for the FreeRunner?
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Lally Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OM said that they were deciding on something beyond DOA. > > Also, Koolu doesn't offer a warranty (just the same 14/28 DOA > warranty), and they're the only place you can get a FR in north > america, so there's no help there. I thought Steve's email was pretty clear, though its probably not what you wanted to hear: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-August/027044.html They're working on policy. I'm sure they'll announce it when its ready. In the mean time the policy is DOA. If you have problems, email Steve and he'll try to help. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU - out of memory?
>> I'm not sure this is true on Freerunner. None of the embedded systems >> I've used have had swap. > Because they where really embedded. > Openmoko is more or less a mobile desktop. Its embedded because of the limited resources available to it. > Slowing down is clearly better than instant crashing. > How ever any early warning system for low memory looks, it can not > guarantee it will be able to fix thing before mem runs out. > This is also true with swap, but much much less probable. > > Can you answer al call? I don't know - probably. > Besides, i can live with bad service while my phone is recovering from > a nearby crash. > And just imagine. Your phone is in a fragile low memory state, and a > call comes in and the phone app needs to be launched. > Everything great? Sure not. No matter how. The dialer app would be exempt from the killer. There are two issues here. First, you want a smart oom killer regardless if you have swap or not. Core services would never been killed. Secondly, is it better to have very slow swap to prolong oom killer being launched? You could do extensive testing to change my mind, but I think swap is going to provide a horrible user experience. Its going to take forever to swap 50mb off the SD card. I'd much rather always have top speed and less applications running. But really we can't even be sure there will be an SD card, so that makes most of this moot. Now a patch could be made to scan for swap space on start up, so people like you who want it can insert an SD card with swap defined. As for an new oom killer, I think it should expose an file in sysfs. We can then watch that file, if its 0 everything is ok. If its 4, we're running low on memory, less than 10%?, and our daemon monitoring this could send the user a popup telling them to close something. When there is less than 1%, the file changes to 9. The userspace daemon then kills a non critical service. Something along those lines, we need a kernel guy to let us know whats possible. Or perhaps the sysfs file should be 0 for normal or 1 for start killing. Then leave it up to userspace daemon to figure out if we're at send a pop up to the user stage. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU - out of memory?
> And come on. Software is not perfect. Sometimes we have to live with a > dreamteam like (old) firefox and x11. I had times when they had both > hundreds of megs virtual mem. But everything was fine because it all was > just harmlessly been swaped away. I restarted them every weekend to not > let it become worse. > Not ideal, but should the system rather be unusable in this condition? You're assuming the system will be usable when an application misbehaves and 50mb gets swapped out. On a desktop, sure your points are valid. I'm not sure this is true on Freerunner. None of the embedded systems I've used have had swap. What happens when you haven't received a call for several hours and the application you're using forces it to swap out? Can you still answer a call in time? I'd rather see a smart oom killer which will only kill non-essential applications. Adding 128mb of swap just pushes the problem back and slows down the entire phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any progress on the "white screen of death" problem?
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Rorschach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > I think my FR with 2008.8 is nearly ready for daily usage. The only thing > which is stopping this, is the "white screen of death" problem. So when I > suspend for more than 5min or so I can't resume. It always just gives me a > blank white screen and I have to reboot. Is there any progress about this > problem? Some workaround or dev-patches? Have you filed a bug? Or looked for an existing one? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Status of GTA3
> Does anyone know the current developmentstate of the GTA03? > I have read something about end of 2008. I wish but cant believe that this > is true. > Does anyone know mor details? There are no details. Anything you read is complete conjecture. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What will be in GTA03?
> 4) My questions were pretty straightforward, mosty Y/N answers. A > knowing user could answer them in 2-5 minutes if he wanted to. Nothing has been decided on the future hardware revisions, so none of your questions can be answered. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008 WTF??
> Coverage of the FR gives one the impression that it's a phone for general > use and not a development phone. You have > to look at the wiki before you find out the phone software isn't ready for > primetime. > No one can control the coverage. I do think they should put a large warning on the ordering page that the software won't be stable, possibly, for months. > Yes, I agree, but people that bought one without knowing the full extent are > going to be mad. It's essentially a > $400 mistakethe only real return policy stated is against the hardware > being > DOA and not buyer's regret. With that being the case I think you really > need to manage expectations of what's coming in the box. I'm sure you could resell it at a very small loss quite easily. Othewise, like a post products, there is no return policy. > And we especially need to get rid of this "Well FINE, go buy an IPHONE > then!" attitude. It's not so much telling someone they'd > be happier with an iphone as it the fact that one would imagine it being > said in the same tone you would use to go tell someone to jump > in a lake. I only see that happening in threads that start out like this one: very unhelpfully unconstructive criticisms, bordering on juvenile bitching. To be polite. > I think managing expectations is the crucial part...even slashdot had a > pretty lukewarm response to the FR, going by the comments. > Most of the discussion I've seen around the web seems to focus on the > preliminary state of the software rather than then openness of > the phone. I expected an expensive paper weight which will eventually replace my blackberry. Perhaps thats why I'm very happy with my FR. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
tangospg and 2008.8 - gui not drawing
Hi, I just installed the latest tangogps (0.9.2-r1) on 2008.8. Several GUI widgets aren't drawing properly, which were fine on other distributions. On the bottom left hand corner I see "maps" but none of the other tabs to the right are shown, its black. However if I tap in the black area, the page loads properly (trip, config, etc). If I'm on the trip page, I can see the trip tab, but the rest are black. On the map page, the "fullscreen" button on the top is cut off. I also can't see the autocenter button. Is this happening to other people with 2008.8? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
> I feel mislead by their marketing, which led me (and, from what I've been > reading, many others) to think that the phone was actually ready for both > developers AND regular folks. This, of course, is false, as it can't even > connect to the internet *out of the box*, and requires a ridiculous degree > of programming knowledge to even do so. (As a Java programmer with 10 years' > experience, I've finally given up trying.) I haven't seen anyone say the phone would be ready for regular user. I tell people don't even expect to make reliable phone calls. Though I think they should have put a big warning page during the purchasing process before it takes your credit card, so no one would have an excuse to complain. Sorry that its not for you yet. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM detection/identification
> And that the three "operators" I could see in my tests > must all allow roaming on each others networks, which is why my T-Mobile > SIM lets me see only those three. I should be able to see Verizon, US > Cellular, and who knows what other operators from some of the places I > tested, including my house. I don't know why you'd ever expect to see CDMA carriers with a GSM phone. You won't see Verizon or US Cellular or Sprint. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko.org site problems
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Doug Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Go to > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ > > and try the links. Some haven't been working lately, giving errors like: Its always been like that. You're just using firefox 3 now, and it gives that "error" message to let you know its an untrusted SSL certificate. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Main page change notification
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Aaron Sowry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Brenda Wang wrote: >> Pretty good. >> I move the language template to the top. >> For those non-English native user , put it on the top will make them >> easy to access their language. >> >> > Er... I just moved it back to the bottom before reading this email... sorry! > > I think changing from one language to another inside the page is > actually a rare task, as bookmarks can be set directly to the language > of choice. It also makes the page look less cluttered :) Right but this is the main page which new users see first. They need to be able to select their language easily. I can see having all other pages have it on the bottom or not at all. The main page should have it on the top. Many people don't speak english. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Mike Hodson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Steven Kurylo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> From everything I've heard a software only fix will not be enough. >>> Unless you ditch your sd card as a data store. > >> I haven't had any problems with TTFF since the software update was >> done. In fact my impression from all the emails on the subject was >> that the software fix was enough. > > I think what he means, is that even though there is enough signal > strength to provide a quick(er) First Fix, (or ANY fix at all in some > cases) that if you are hammering the card for map data, the noise > generated by the clock/data lines may cause reception errors resulting > in a less-than-accurate position fix being maintained. > > I would take this to mean that your current location drifts from the > actual spot to places not quite where you are standing. And I don't see this when using my freerunner. YMMV. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From everything I've heard a software only fix will not be enough. > Unless you ditch your sd card as a data store. > > All new FR's have the HW fix and new software will be written to take > advantage of that HW platform. > > The software fix alone allows you to get a fast TTFF but after that, sd > card data transfers are just to noisy to maintain a high quality GPS > data stream. Yes it works but poorly, which is better than not at all. I haven't had any problems with TTFF since the software update was done. In fact my impression from all the emails on the subject was that the software fix was enough. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Got the same message three times
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 10:22 AM, leonardo maccari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > arne anka wrote: >>> I got three copies. Nothing against redundancy, but could the dear admin >>> please take a look? >> > > +2 Open a ticket on the bug tracker and post the message headers of all three messages. There is no other way for them to help. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoFreerunner and MacOSX?
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Ole Holm Frandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _Thank you_ very much, for the walk through McCreery. It seems thats > it rather straight through to make it work . Now there is not much > which is preventing me from buying the Phone. So thanks again. > > Is there a difference in perfomance with connecting it with OSX contra > connecting it with a Linux-dist? Just curious. I find the osx usb driver to be quite flaky. I think I have 10.4. I regularly have to reboot my macbook now, where as I used to go months between reboots. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tangogps pre-cache?
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Bastian Feder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HEy, > which version oof Tangogps you are using? The one from the opkg > repository? If so deinstall it and take the ipk- file from the > Tangogps page. Yes its from buildhost.openmoko. I'll upgrade from the website, thanks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tangogps pre-cache?
> You can zoom out to encompass the area you want to download maps for. > Then, give the map a single tap. From the context menu, select 'map > download'. You can pick how many zoom levels in it should go. When I do the single tap I only see: friend... point... set position... I don't see an option to download. Original imagine updated today. I don't see anything to tell me what version of tangogps I'm running. I can check the cli later. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Tangogps pre-cache?
The tango gps documentation says "Additionally you can conveniently pre-cache areas." Can anyone tell me how to do this? I can scroll around and have those tiles cached for off line use, but a pre-cache would be great. Downloading all the OSM tiles and all the zoom levels for a 20km radios would be excellent. Thanks -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Upgrading issue: kernel-module-ext2
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg upgrade Upgrading kernel-module-ext2 on root from 1:2.6.24+git20080424-r0 to 2:2.6.24+git20+287b292cf95edbd82dc63085ae5f0167a6e8141f-r0... Collected errors: * ERROR: Package kernel-module-ext2 (parent kernel-module-ext2) is not available from any configured src. * Failed to download kernel-module-ext2. Perhaps you need to run 'opkg update'? I've run the update, this has been around for a couple days. Is this package important? -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rogers SIM (Canada) causing crash on Dialer
I'm getting the same issue with my rogers sim. Did you ever figure anything out? I have two sims which display the same issue. The GUI says I've registered (I even received some SMS messages) but the dialer crashes. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m shell libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc. This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY P # # Read current opername Our current operator is Rogers Wireless nr # Query network registration registered (home network) # D250589 Dial 250589 RSTR=`OK' EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: REJECT EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: RELEASE D+1250589 # Dial +1250589 RSTR=`OK' EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: REJECT EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: RELEASE On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Sparrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Christopher, > >I think my phone has registered with my provider, just not letting me > dial out. From running "libgsmd-tool -m shell" here is what I am > getting: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: HTML messages to mailing lists. Problem upgrading ncurses
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Stroller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 24 Jul 2008, at 01:09, Dale Schumacher wrote:
>>
>>> Also, could you possibly post to the list in plain text, not HTML?
>>
>> Sure, I could. I thought it would be more clear to post the
>> transcript in fixed font. Doesn't it come through as multi-part-
>> alternative anyway, so you should have a plain-text version too?
>> It seems the richer markup is often useful.
>
>
> The fixed-width font you chose ("courier new,monospace"?) is
> honoured, but comes up as greyish on my mail client (Apple's Mail)
> and is difficult to read.
So it sounds the problem is with your client. Tell your client,
assuming its a reasonable client, to only show plain text and not the
HTML.
The only argument to skip html is disk space/bandwidth which is rarely
an issue these days.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Problem upgrading ncurses
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg upgrade > Upgrading ncurses on root from 5.4-r14 to 5.4-r15... > Downloading > http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/ncurses_5.4-r15_armv4t.ipk > Collected errors: > * Package ncurses wants to install file /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 > But that file is already provided by package * libncurses5 > > This has persisted for at least the last 24 hours. Is anyone else seeing > this problem? I had it. I forcibly removed libncurses5 and everything is fine. ncurses no longer depends on libncurses5. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dot'n reply above quote
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Dotan Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not everyone uses a decent MUA! I use gmail, which does allow not > filter on arbitrary headers. So I filter on TO and CC addresses. Yes it does. Has Words: listid:"community.lists.openmoko.org" ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ekiga for Openmoko, petition,
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:01 PM, andres <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > As I feel anxious about running an extension of my asterisk in the > Freerunner, If your search the archives there is already an IAX client for asterisk. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rules based policy engine
> The problem with this is that one needs to think like a programmer to > describe your "ideal phone" as a set of rules like these. Not only does > one have to think analytically and dissect their concept into orthogonal, > machine-checkable rules, but from your examples it's also clear that for > such a wide range of possibilities a whole *language* with *expressions* > (at least boolean) is necessary. I see it as something like sieve. Its a pretty full language for writing rules. I, as a programmer, I do almost anything I want. For the non-programmers there are various GUIs which allow you to do all the simple tasks with a couple clicks. In fact filter email is fairly similar: if these three things are true, do X. Then I have a stack of rules and it goes through them one at time until one is true. xpath might work. There are a few options, though I would try to stay away from writing our own if it can be helps. A plan old python class might be enough with function for each possible condition. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: $106 in Brokerage!!?!!?!
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Ben Cadieux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > UPS wants $106 in brokerage. Are they out of their minds? > > (I'm in BC, Canada, by the way). I should've shipped it across the > border. If I have the item returned, would you guys ship it again for > me, say across the border this time? (I'll pay shipping again, of > course...) In BC as well. I did the $50 shipping (brokerage included) and had to pay ~$45 for taxes. So if you took the normal shipping method, $102 sounds about right. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Hugo Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 04:50:50PM -0500, Robert Horton wrote: >> Thanks for all this fast testing and great work. I was worried when there >> was silence. > > I suspect that a large chunk of the silence was down to the fact > that the OpenMoko people are in California, so they wouldn't have got > to work until 6pm EST... Also note that the first email showing it was the SD card is only 11 hours old. If you ask me, thats some pretty fantastic turn around time. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Kalle Happonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > arne anka wrote: >>> wouldn't think it's too much. How often do you reboot the phone? >>> >> >> with a battery uptime of about 8h -- at least once a day, because the fr >> usually silently shuts down. >> on weekends more frequently because i play around and something crashes or >> so. >> > Well, this wasn't available now, was it? :). Since these are only plans, > and afaik the powersave functionality will be vastly improved, that > argument is hopefully invalid when the encryption is available. And if you're not willing to have the inconvenience of a long password on boot up, use an easier one. You're slightly less secure, but still more secure than having no encryption. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Number of GTA02s ordered as of 10 Jul 2008
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Matt Luzum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Steven Kurylo wrote: >> I think you're pretty low. In another thread someone said their OM >> store tracking number was 1087. Mine is in the 1600s. While there >> are some assumptions there, it strongly indecates they've shipped 600 >> from their store alone. > > Also note that presumably the 10-packs are each only assigned 1 order > number, so those 600 order numbers represent more than 600 phones. > > Out of curiosity, how long ago did you place your order (with order > number in the 1600s)? My order was placed on the 3rd. No tracking number yet. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Number of GTA02s ordered as of 10 Jul 2008
> Individual sales, worldwide > ~300 x 1 = 300 > > Jeffries' wild ass guess: Total GTA02 ordered = 750 +/- 250 > > My gut says OpenMoko first mass production run was approx > 1,000 to 1,500. I think you're pretty low. In another thread someone said their OM store tracking number was 1087. Mine is in the 1600s. While there are some assumptions there, it strongly indecates they've shipped 600 from their store alone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping to canada...
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Dave O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No ten packs :/ Although I've heard of Andrew Greig before, the koolu website doesn't inspire confidence in me. I wouldn't trust them with my money. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
> I can confirm this behaviour with both my 3G sim cards (one from e-plus > and one from o2). The sim entered is definitely correct and works like > a charm in my nokia phone. Which behavoir? cme error: 3 from the original post or the more recent cme error: 32? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
> now, I got some more infos, but it still doesn't work. > Today I was on an O2 shop, too. They gave me a NEW SIMCARD and I tried it. > Same again. It doesn't want my pin. > I asked the man in the shop and he called someone, after this, he said that > it is the newest simcard they have. > So: Get a newer simcard is NO solution. Actually if you look at your AT output, you're now getting error 32 which is "Network not allowed, emergency calls only". I'm no gsm expert, but my first thought is that O2 didn't activate the new sim card. Try the new sim card in a different phone? Or double check with O2 that the new sim card has been activated. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping to canada...
> Taxes apply, duty might, and the couriers all may charge brokerage > fees. UPS really sucks in this regard. > One of the members of the group has offered to do the paperwork, so no > brokerage fees. For a single phone the fees are $50. However if you chose the more expense shipping method from openmoko, $50 extra, you don't pay the fees. http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html So in the end its the same amount of money, but you get your phone much faster. There will be GST, but I don't know what duties their may be. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Webshop Reopen NOW!!!
> As I really wanted to get the phone, I didn't mess around with NAT > settings to see exactly what was causing the issue, but I'm happy to do > further testing. It worked fine from behind my NAT. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Vote! Zimbra Mobile on the Openmoko
>> 1. Is this FLOSS ? > I think it is not FLOSS:( Its not clear. I think this is the "Rich J2ME Client" app, which is FLOSS. At the very bottom: http://www.zimbra.com/products/product_editions.html > Sorry, nobody wants this on a smartphone. Why implement features that we > 100% need on the platform anyways. > And you have seen that they are talking about J2ME?.. I would want this option on my smart phone. I'm not sure if I would use it, but definitely having the possibility of showing an alternative to Exchange+blackberry is always a good thing. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate Message
> Well, I am seeing spamassassin headers... For instance, from your > message: > > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on >sita.openmoko.org > X-Spam-Level: > X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 > tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_RFC_POST >autolearn=no version=3.1.7-deb > > Don't you get these headers? I was looking at the headers they had attached previously, I guess they removed the SA ones. When I look at the messages in my inbox, I do see them. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate Message
> > Could be that something in the delivery process (e.g. spamassassin) > is taking too much time and the remote host times out Thats a possibility, though they aren't adding any spamassassin headers to the messages. I don't know who administers the OM servers, but maybe they'll chime in. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate Message
> after scanning my inbox (since 3. jul) -- most. > though, not all mails from a gmail account get sent (received?) twice and > not every mail from such an account. > i found one mail from cc.helsinki.fi and one from hotmail.com. > cc.helsinki.fi: In both your posted cases, cc.helsinki.fi and hotmail.com sent the message twice to openmoko. Nothing we can do. There is a possibility that openmoko dropped the connection or issued a 4xx code, but still delivered the initial message. In those cases the sending server would retry, creating two copies of the message. But that would be a pretty bad bug in exim and I can't image how they could mis-configure exim to do this. That couldn't be the case in the previous gmail headers I looked at. The message was duplicated while still in the gmail network. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate Message
>> Post the message headers, preferably to the bug tracker. Otherwise >> nothing can ever be done. > > I got the message twice, too. > > The headers are attached. While it appear the user sent the message once (same message ID and first received line), the google http server (10.151.60.2) sent two copies 27 seconds apart. There is nothing openmoko can do about this. It would be interesting to know if all the duplicate messages came from users using gmail. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Map Overlay OF Wiki
> btw: i got this mail twice as it happens with some others, too. not all > and not often but sometimes there are a few. Post the message headers, preferably to the bug tracker. Otherwise nothing can ever be done. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Delay is getting worse...
Here it is: > Received: from sita.openmoko.org (sita.openmoko.org [88.198.124.203]) >by circe.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C2133F5B >for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:25:10 +0200 (CEST) > Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=sita.openmoko.org) >by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) >(envelope-from <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) >id 1K9PGp-0007oW-Td; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:54:07 +0200 The message is recieved by openmoko at 20:54:07 +0200, but doesn't forward it along until 22:25:10 +0200. You should file a bug report to ensure someone looks into it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Delay is getting worse...
You need to post the message headers for anyone to be able to do anything about it. I believe there was a request to send them to the bug tracker. On 6/19/08, Kosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is 13:41 here in Mexico City, and the last > mail I got from the list arrived at 5:23, it is > from DR. H. Nikolaus Schaller. (Re: Why not use > forum) > > I check this box at leas once an hour and I can > tell this is not good. I've been in this list for > a while and I used to get the messages as soon as > posted. Pleas, do somehing about it. Even my own > mails get at least two hours after I send them. > > Thanks > > Kosa > > - Un mundo mejor es posible - > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko and pci express voice modems
> What I am really trying to do is to have as close to an all in one > convergence as possible. > So take a small EEEPC like laptop, put the voice modem into it and there you > have it ... phone, music player, video player, upgradeable memory, a mini > computer with full QWERTY keys and so on ... So what you're really asking is if the openmoko software can run on your laptop, and use that card to make phone calls instead of GTA hardware. I would assume no and I'm not sure why you'd want to do it that way. If that card is supported under linux, I'm sure there is better support for it with desktop applications. But this list wouldn't be the place to ask. > Is it perhaps simpler to connect an openmoko device to a mini laptop ? Is it > possible to route openmoko device audio through a laptop? You should be able to have your laptop present itself has a bluetooth headset to the Freerunner. I have no idea if someone has written software to do that though. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?
> Since phone is already being produced in factory does anyone has some > estimated date when ordinary people could buy this phone? No one has any idea. Personally I'm expecting mid July. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:06:16 +0300 Flyin_bbb8 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > > actually - no. most linux developers and users i know need contacts/glasses > and > they can never read my screen and complain about my fonts being so small all > the time (not that i will ever change. i love my small fonts!), but i ma going > off anecdotal evidence over many years of me being one of a very small > minority > who can read and use such a high dpi with small fonts. i am bemused by so many > vocal people here claiming to me what seems to be the reverse of my experience > over many years - as well as going directly against actual product specs - eg, > iphone dpi is very much lower than the neo, but a large margin, but users rave > how nice it is. > Without being able to see them side by side I'm always going to want the higher spec. I have my blackberry 7130g set to the smallest font size available and wish it could go smaller. I think the screen is 240 x 260, 2.4". However most other people have trouble reading my bb, so I'm willing to say I'm in the minority. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo
> Google does contribute to various open source projects, but they sure as > hell don't seem to drink the punch. > > Thanks for the info, that completely defines my view of Android. The kernel still uses the GPL, so they have to respect that. However the new hardware drivers could be done the same way nvidia does it. They said their custom software will all use the apache license. So a phone carrier could take the software stack, close the source, and add their custom bits on top leaving you with a system thats just as closed as the current phones. It will be interesting to see what happens. > And they use WINE to run android dev stuff on linux? My god - that > beggars the imagination. I think he's talking about other applications. I think picasa uses wine. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: possibility to purchase a moko before beginning of July
> Cool, I'm in Vancouver Canada. I guess considering Taiwan is a Pacific > coast neighbour some might actually get shipped through our port. For > Canadians, will it make more sense to order online or look for a > distributor? Far as I know you can either order it from California when the web store goes online or join the 10 pack purchase. The current 10 pack seems to be full now, so you'd have to start a new one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#British_Columbia ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: possibility to purchase a moko before beginning of July
> Just out of curiosity, I'm going on Vacation in July and I was wondering > about how to snag one. Not even two hours ago Steve sent an update on production status. > Will access be via distributors/resellers, > online store or some other method? > > Should I be getting in touch with local resellers and setting up some > sort of handoff plan so I can snag one even if it's just in the nick of > time for my flight? That completely depends on what country you're in. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: silence (re mass production status) is deafening
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Ron K. Jeffries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (I am not complaining, just sayin'...) > > We're not hearing much about the status of production > for Freerunner. From available bits of info, I deduce: Only a week ago there was a thread "Whats up with the freerunner mass production?". I'd hardly call that a lack of communication. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
>> I'd still very much like to see a way to turn it off, so it works the same >> for letters as for numbers. It's annoying 90% of the time because most of >> the person or street names I need to enter into Contacts are not going to be >> listed. I promise not to write my next 850-page book on my Neo, so word >> lookup is of limited use. I suspect that Contacts, Todo and Calendar is the >> most common use case for most people, and that writing normal text is the >> least common for most people. > I think I will write further more SMS than saving contacts. And the texts in > calendar are not this long, at least in mine. My current phone changes the keyboard type based on context. If you're typing into a password field, it doesn't try to predict. Same with an email address field. But for the message body it becomes predictive. It also adds words to its dictionary from the current context - words you've already typed which weren't in the dictionary, or words in the message you're replying to. Also if you use a word multiple times it eventually adds it to the dictionary. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Bastian Muck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What about the Email-Push-Service. I don't know if this is provider > specific. T-Mobile Germany offers this service for about 5 €/month with free > transfer. I don't know how it works, but the name makes me think, the > provider "pushes" the mail to the phone. > Any ideas? If they're doing NAT pools, I'm sure they have a server on the inside of the NAT. So they would poll your mail for you, then they can reach the phone directly for the push. Blackberry has this feature - they'll log into my pop/imap account and push the email to the handheld. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: >> >> Well, I much appreciate your work and your openness with community, >> unfortunately I can't say the same about Openmoko in this occasion since >> this should be an Open company and so I'd have appreciated it more if the >> decision would have been debated before with developers and active part of >> community (= people writing code) in public lists. > > I guess the question is whether Openmoko Inc. ever promised that the > contents of the rootfs for the phone that they sell will be determined by > some sort of community consensus. > > If I remember correctly, they only promised to provide an open software > platform upon which *you* can create your own personalised rootfs. By > including both toolkits, they have not changed anything you experience with > respect to this promise. And you'd end up arguing about the colour of the bike shed none stop. Some decisions openmoko just needs make to deliver us a phone. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
> Erm, you say that SMS is free, or at-least receiving them is. Maybe if you > could implement such an application, you could get your server to SMS your > phone when you have important messages with a special trigger code, and then > you're phone would connect and download the messages? > Not sure if this is possible, or if it would be cheaper / waste of time... > But if you were going with text messages, it'd be expensive to fit anything > more than a small message on? Yes, I was thinking I'd put a filter on my imap server which would send an SMS when messages come in. When the phone receives the SMS it would check for new mail. It had crossed my mind to stuff message headers into the sms too. Then you could decide if its worth downloading the full message over gprs. I just have a bunch of ideas in my head, though it does look like I might have to make a imap client first as I don't see on yet :-) -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: picking up voicemail
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Steven Milburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hmmm, the two would seem to counteract each other. (not displaying, but > remembering it for you) > Not at all. When I enter a password in my blackberry, it shows the character for a second, then puts in a *. This stops me from mistyping it and stops shoulder surfing. For the voicemail, there is an option where I give it my pin to remember. Then when I dial voicemail, it calls, pauses for a few seconds, then does the password. If you normally dial digits after the phone number, I wouldn't expect it to remember. That would be silly, it wouldn't know what it was saving. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: picking up voicemail
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There ought to be a specialization of Dialer to be able to type your > voicemail password without having it echo, switchable dynamically. > > Just an idea - my son was complaining that his cheap Nokia didn't have > such a feature, so I figured that OpenMoko should And it should save the password, so you don't have to type it each time. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Either way, you could write a simple program on the phone to keep connecting > to an end point (server) and give the server reverse access (stunnel) back > to the device. Yeah, thats what I was hoping to avoid :-) I was thinking of looking at the cost savings of implementing a mail push system versus imap idle. The server would push important mails, but otherwise my client wouldn't check unless I asked it too. Obviously the break even point depends on how many messages you get an hour. Though around here incoming SMS are free, so I could push that way... -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPRS IP Networking
Does someone know how IP addresses are handed out on the cellular network? Do they give each phone an IP address, or do they do NAT? I want to know if I'll be able to connect to my freerunner over GPRS, say I wanted to ssh into it. I've been searching the internet and haven't found an answer. I connected to my website with my blackberry and saw different IP addresses for different requests; makes me think they have an outgoing NAT pool. Of course this could also be carrier dependent. Thanks. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless Cracking / Hacking on the FreeRunner
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thank You! > > And it is the Atheros Chipset, so I will be able to do everything. :) There is an email from Andy Green in March saying says we don't have monitor mode, which I think means no promiscuous mode. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Another little question about Group sales to steve
> I just wondering about one little thing steve. > Is the definition *10 pack* for only 10 persons, or can a 10 pack also be > over 10?? > > Example: Here in Norway we have started a group sale for Norway. And the > chance that we are going to be 10, 20, 30, etc. persons is slim. > So can we buy a *10 pack* when we are 12? > > Or is it only 10, 20, 30, etc groups that can get the extra stuff? It has been posted many many times to the list that its 10 packs only. 10,20,30. Not 12. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IAX2/Asterisk + Openmoko FreeRunner
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The goal of this project is to seamlessly tie into the openmoko dialer > application as a 'gateway', so that you could chose to dial out over GSM or > dial out over IAX2 (wifi, possibly GPRS). > > If you would like to help in the project, just send me an email. I would > love some feedback/suggestions on the project. What kind of help are you looking for? When I get a freerunner I'll definitely want to do iax to my asterisk server. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner games
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Perhaps this is a case of the explanation making perfect > sense to someone who already has experience in the subject, but not to those > that don't. Any suggestions as to which bits need a better explanation? I took the results section to be a conclusion. So despite saying some positive things at the start, I took the results section with its pessimistic outlook to be the final word. Reading it your way makes sense now. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner games
Are we going to be able to use the accelerometers for any of these games? The wiki says (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals#Results) that "For gentle twisting and turning, the differential accelerations are impossible to tell from noise." To me that means rocking the neo around for these won't work. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 3:41 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ya etch a sketch was one that we have talked about. > Too many ideas, > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:19 PM > To: List for Openmoko community discussion > Subject: Re: Freerunner games > > +1 for both of these. I can see Snake like this being quite exciting. > > I will award a t-shirt for a decent implementation of either of these. > Same for the Labyrinth game. > > Start coding. You'll be getting your Freerunners soon(ish)* > > Michael > > * for some definition of "soon" > > Ron K. Jeffries wrote: > > Etch-a-sketch using accelerometers would rock > > > > the classic Snake game would also be and cool > > with these controls > > > > > > -- > > Ron K. Jeffries > > http://blog.eronj.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Software
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 5:31 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ryan Prior wrote: > > > Perhaps "phone-cron" needs to be written, to take anacron to the level of > task flexibility required for modern cell phones. Cron and anacron are > crusty old beasts - we need something fresh and sharp. > > > > Talking with dbus too... I don't know the power difference, but if I have a scheduled alarm and I turn my blackberry off it asks if it should be really off or off and wake up for the alarm. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
> Openmoko guys! Can you give us the specs so that those interested in > bulk purchases can figure out the logistics of shipping versus > individual sales and then factor that into the regions that will be > used to organize bulk purchases? If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you could do this. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping questions, customer organized distribution in Europe
> > I would really like the option to use the USPS instead of UPS. UPS > > charges much higher brokerage fees to bring a package into Canada > > compared to the USPS. > > > > Thank you. > > Steven, > > Where are you in Canada? I am in Victoria. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping questions, customer organized distribution in Europe
> Could you offer shipping by the US Postal Service? Looking at their website, > I see that for instance, they have a service called 'Express Mail > International' that would cost $28 for a single phone, with a delivery time > in 6 days to Sweden, and a service called 'Priority Mail International' > which would cost $19 for delivery in 6-10 days. I would really like the option to use the USPS instead of UPS. UPS charges much higher brokerage fees to bring a package into Canada compared to the USPS. Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
> > I would like to see the pouch in the package, too :( > > > > Que "but the majority of users never use a pouch" and "you'd be better off > using a $30 iPod sock" responses. Who would say suchs things? Of course I think you *MUST* fit a pony in the box. The freerunner will never be popular without a pony. I got a pony with my last phone and everyone wants a pony! Also you can get much cheaper ponies in Asia then I can around here. So those who don´t want a pony can throw it in the bin or turn it into dinner. Also buying a non-openmoko pony just isn´t the same thing. Even if I can use the openmoko logo to brand the pony myself... -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> A headset is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to me. > > I need to be able to talk whilst I drive sometimes. > > Of course, if you make it an optional accessory I will (reluctantly) pay > extra to purchase it, but a headset has been included in my last 3 phone > purchases. You do realize the cost of the headset would be included in the phone right? So its either we pay more for a neo, and everyone gets a headset they might throw into the bin, or everyone pays less for a neo and those people who need a new headset can buy one. When you're neo arrived take it to the store. After showing them how cool it is, try a few headsets out and buy the one you want. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Alexander Frøyseth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? I think you're confusing concepts. We're talking cellular bands. Are you talking 400/500 cpu frequency? -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Hardware update
> PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the > next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:00 AM, Federico Lorenzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you > _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner I'll miss Edge when I swap my blackberry for the FreeRunner. Wifi will hopefully mean I won't notice. Either way I still want UMTS in the next version. If the next version doesn't have UMTS, I don't know what it could offer which would make me upgrade, short of my old one wearing out. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Loosing your moko
> > I thought about the risk of loosing the moko or of getting it stolen... > > > > I got the following idea: > > If you can't find you moko, you only have to send an SMS with a special > keyword/passphrase to your moko. > > It recognises the special text and sends the current coordinates to a > server. So you can see it's position. > > > > Hehe...sounds fun. The real fun is when you ssh in to wipe the contents and set the battery to always fast charge so the new "owner" gets some surprises when they plug it into their charger... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Freerunner design is currently staged to go through Production > Validation Test (PVT). The hardware design A5 is, we believe, solid. We > are updating this design to A6 to maximize production yields. Something that I haven't seen (and looking through the archives I can't find an update for) is what bands is this version going to use? Is it the 900 and the 850 will come out at some indeterminate time afterwards? Or will you be producing both the 850 and the 900 right now? Thank you -- Steven Kurylo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Additional info
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Nicanor Babula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It will be a long life cellphone? Or will it just be some fragile geek > toy to use with care? My reference points are Motorola Motoming and > Nokia N800 (both have touchscreen and linux). If you search the archives this has been brought up many times. They keep on making improvements to the software, but IIRC so far its a week on standby. I don't recall what the current talk time was (with everything off but the gsm). -- Steven Kurylo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea of a voice mail application
> Nope, for all EU countries i know about, this is absolutely no difference. > You > pay for a call to provider side voicebox as you do for a straight call. Interesting. On my Rogers (Canada) phone, I don't pay for them to leave messages. I also don't pay to check my messages. In fact the number to pickup messages is long distance! -- Steven Kurylo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FAX2PDF with OpenMoko?
> yep, instead one should start to see printers with a built in mailing system > so that one could assign a mail address to it, and have it auto-print said > mail, complete with attachments of it came in pdf or odf... I thought they all did these days. I haven't seen a new copier at an office in the last several years that didn't support printing received email (SMTP, POP, IMAP) and emailing (SMTP) anything it scanned. -- Steven Kurylo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How Alice and Bob got telephone/SMS spam on their Moko.
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Heikki Sørum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi everyone! Today I got another proposal for useful > applications that would make an open mobile outshine > "oldsch00l" mobiles. While I've never thought of taking it that far, this is one of the prime reasons I will be getting an OM. Most phones have very limited inbound call rules. I'll setup certain phone numbers to always ring the phone, only allow unknown numbers to ring the phone during certain times, etc. -- Steven Kurylo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Patents and OpenMoko
> Would you explain? because this is very commonly believed: if you > don't defend the patent you will lose it. Just depends how this > phrase "defend the patent" is defined I guess... It differs in jurisdictions, but what most people confuse it trademark and patents. You can lose a trademark if you don't defend it. A starting point for research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_dilution Also you can lose your patent if you don't implement it, which is complete different from dilution but easy to confuse. > What kind of protection is offered by the patent commons? How can a > mere agreement among the parties involved (if there were any lawsuit > about a breach thereof, it would be a civil suit) be stronger than the > patent law itself, which specifies the rights of the patent owner to > license the patent and collect royalties, or to sue for infringement? > I trust that some lawyers have thought this through pretty thoroughly > by now, but it hasn't been tested, right? I have no idea if there is case law. It would be governed by applicable contract law and what was actually agreed to... http://www.patentcommons.org/resources/about_commitments.php#type By making a Commitment, a Contributor gives permission for others to engage in activities it could otherwise prevent, or for which the Contributor could collect damages or royalties. Courts have concluded it is unfair and inequitable for Contributors to encourage others to rely on their promise they will not enforce their patents and then sue them for infringement for doing so Sounds like there might be some case law there already. > I suspect you are right about this, but there really are credibility > problems with software patents in general... they clearly suck, and > many developers are in denial, and waiting for them to be finally > disallowed by the gov't. But then again, that might never happen; and > even if it did, would the existing software patents be thrown out, or > grandfathered? It is hard to predict the future, especially ahead of > time. Probably the large corporate special interests will get > whatever they want, in the end. I agree. The situation is a mess. Just like the GPL is "copyleft", hopefully the patent commons will become the same thing: patent everything we can and grant everyone the right to use it. -- Steven Kurylo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Patents and OpenMoko
> From what I know especially in the US patent system you are *forced* to > actively defend your patent, i.e. if you get to know that someone uses > your patent and is not paying you roayalties (or you get an alternative > commercial advantage like cross licensing) you have to sue him. If you > do not do so the patent can be revoked. No. > And you have to collect royalties since the patent system only cares > about businesses, i.e. the sole purpose of patents is to make money from > it. Not using it to make money by either sublicensing or self-use of the > IP will constitue non active use of the patent and is also a reason for > revocation. No. > So even if you have the intend of not sueing you might be forced to > either sue others and/or collect license fees. > The expressed intend not to make money from the patent could already be > a reason for not accepting it. No. > So imagine someone else using the OpenMoko software on another device > with some of your patented parts in it. You would be forced to sue this > person/company/whatever. > This is not what we you/we want. No. > But as always: IANAL. Indeed :-) > Starting to collect software patents would contradict your own claim of > openness and support of free software. Not at all. > Speaking as community guy I would say that with the software patents you > would have to sign and publish a non-revocable community contract that > sais quite explicitely for which use you would accept royaltee free use > and of which patents. Only then the community would be safe. Else, at > some later point in time, someone at OpenMoko/FIC might change their > mind and try to make money from the patents. Definitely and thats what the patent commons are for. > Oh, and it just occurred to me... > AFAIK GPL V3 explicitely forbids software patents on GPLed code, does it? No it doesn't. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#v3PatentRetaliation If they patent software, and release that software under GPL3, they can't sue users of that software for patent infringement. > But please do not consider software patents at any time! You will > instantly loose your credibility in the open source world. Not at all. If they don't patent it, someone else will; then you're in real trouble. Its a broken system, but its one they have to work with. Sure you can point to prior art if someone else patents it - but challenging a patent costs money. Usually more than the cost of the patent in the first place. As long as they pledge the patents to the community, which from the original email is their goal, there is nothing wrong with getting patents. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: proprietary firmware
> btw: you *never* know exactly what's going on on your device, because you > never can trust in (LSI-)chip design, which usually isn't "open source". If > you want to know, you have to observe from outside the system. Do you know > what your BIOS is doing? Sure not! Do you demand it to be coded "userspace" > FOSS therefore? It can't be done. Thats what the linux bios project is for. So yes, I want as much FOSS as possible. One day I'd like to see the entire stack open. > You always have a hardware API somewhere, > and you may not see what's behind. So you have to do a tradeoff between total > transparency and potential risk arising from an opaque subsystem. I don't > want to know how 802.11b protocol is handled in the wlan-chip. I want to have > a powerfull bugfree API for the subsystem. In a Free software world, we do want to know. For various reasons, one of which is because there is no "powerful bugfree API". They'll be bugs and we (as in the Free software community) can fix them; I don't want to be at the mercy of some random company. Of course you don't need to know anything about 802.11b. I don't know anything about scsi drivers either. But someone else does and I use the Free API to write things to my tape drive. In the end though, it comes down to a philosophical debate: how open do you want your systems? Some people are Free, some people are Open Source, and some people are proprietary. -- Steven Kurylo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: proprietary firmware
Great stuff, this is why I'll by a neo and tell everyone I know the same. Free the phone! On 2/7/08, Wolfgang Spraul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Community, > > Some of our chips or chipsets contain proprietary firmware in flash > memory. For example, in GTA02 these include the Wi-Fi, GPS, and GSM > chipsets. > Ideally, we would have liked to use chipsets for which even the > firmware code would be free, but they don't exist right now. > So we accepted proprietary firmware, as long as it was in flash or ROM. > > Then we ran into problems when bugs were found in the firmware, and we > wanted to update handsets out in the field. > The vendors would give us firmware updates and reflashing tools, but > they wouldn't let us redistribute those tools to our users. We asked > for special licenses to allow us to distribute those flashing tools to > our users, and got them in some cases, after months of licensing > negotiations. > Next we discovered that those reflashing tools had further issues: for > example, they would only allow loading cryptographically signed > firmware into the chipset flash memory. The tools do this because > vendors are worried that people would disassemble, patch, and > reassemble the firmware, triggering regulatory reclassification of > their chipsets (software controlled radio). > Furthermore, we see that for upcoming chipsets, vendors are switching > from storing the firmware in flash memory to loading the firmware into > RAM at run time. One reason for this is that RAM needs less power and > is cheaper. In this case the firmware, whether original or updated, > has to be loaded each time the device boots, requiring that the binary- > only, restrictively licensed firmware updater be included in the > OpenMoko distribution. > > This got quite frustrating, until we met Richard Stallman last > weekend. And he cleared it up for us rather quickly :-) > > He suggested we treat any chipset with proprietary firmware as a black- > box, a circuit. He suggested we ignore the firmware inside. If the > firmware is buggy and the vendor needs the ability to update the > firmware, we instead ask the vendor to reduce the firmware to the bare > minimum, so that it can be very simple and bug free, and move the rest > of the logic into the GPL'ed driver running on the main CPU. This way > we completely avoid the issue of distributing proprietary firmware > updates and binary firmware updaters with restrictive licensing that > load only cryptographically signed firmware. > > We liked his advice. It speeds up our decision making and allows us to > focus on what we do best: Developing Free Software that is available > in full source code, running on the main CPU, that we and anyone else > can modify and optimize. There are downsides: We will no longer offer > reflashing tools to update proprietary firmware, under any license. > For critical firmware bugs, we will accept returns, or in some cases > fix the bug in-house. > We will push vendors to simplify the functionality of their > proprietary firmware, so we can implement more of this on the main CPU > as Free Software. Maybe some vendors will even open up firmware for > Free Software development, that would be the ideal outcome we are > working towards. > > We hope this helps clarify OpenMoko's current position on proprietary > firmware: Ignore them while they stay inside of a chip or chipset, and > refuse to touch them. Focus on what Free Software can do. > Feedback and comments are always very welcome. > Best Regards, > Wolfgang > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Steven Kurylo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
