Southern California Linux Expo, Feb 8-10 2008

[ian douglas]

Hey all,

Just saw that OpenMoko is going to be at the SCALE show this year -- 
can't wait to drop by and meet some of you guys. Got any good giveaways 
planned? ;o)


Ian


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Re: what's not functional?

[ian douglas]

After the modem firmware upgrade from Michael, I was able to connect and 
make a phone call with an AT&T SIM card that didn't work before. And a 
TMobile SIM card that didn't work at all before would now at least 
register on the network and show signal strength, but would not 
make/receive a phone call. Your mileage will vary, though, depending on 
the type of SIM card you have and where you're located.


Ian


Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote:
I thought I remembered someone said t-mobile sim cards weren't 
connecting correctly to the network, but at&t cards were working fine.  
GPS is working fine although there was talk about changing the chip & 
drivers in the next release - although I'm not sure about the state of 
that or the reasons behind it.


Mark Arvidson wrote:

Hi Tom,

If your usage is for North America, be aware that the Neo as it is 
offered now does not include support for the 850MHz band, so you will 
only be able to use the 1900MHz in these parts. 

The battery life is 3-4 hours, and the phone is best charged turned on 
and plugged into a Linux computer's USB port.  My particular device 
only recognizes the sim card every other boot and often forgets to 
tell me if somebody is calling (they drop straight to voicemail).  
Some of this may be improved with the latest modem flash.


The basic hardware platform seems solid enough (other than power 
management issues).  The problems I am seeing seem to be software 
related, so if the openmoko software is not required in your 
application, you might have some luck.  I have enjoyed writing some 
small bits of software for openmoko, but still cannot use it as a 
primary phone.


Some claim that Qtopia works well on the device.  I haven't tried it 
recently enough to comment.

--Mark Arvidson



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Re: Southern California Linux Expo, Feb 8-10 2008

[ian douglas]

It was in an announcement to their mailing list. Here's an excerpt:

"The commercial booths have all been filled.  Several non-profit groups
have recently been added to the SCALE expo floor:  Enlightenment, which
will be showcasing the work going into E17.  Enlightenment is rarely
seen at conferences, so this is your opportunity to learn about the
desktop that first defined the term "eye candy".  Also added were
OpenMoko and Damn Small Linux.  And for the first time all three of the
major BSDs, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and FreeBSD will have booths at SCALE."



Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote:
Where did you see that?  It wasn't in Current Events->Upcoming events in 
the Wiki.  Too bad I just finished several months in California, won't 
be going back any time soon (I think) and will miss out on the show in 
Feb.  Anyone know of any other shows coming up in the US that OpenMoko 
will be at?




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Re: France : Taxes for video and mp3 playing capacity

[ian douglas]

The speedometer on my Volkswagen says my 10-year old Passat is "capable" 
of driving 160mph, but doesn't mean I should have to pay a speeding 
ticket as though I do.


I concur, these tax laws are silly business. I was glad to hear that 
Canada shut down the DRM tax that some group was trying to get the 
government to back them up on.


Ian


Fabian Olesen wrote:
this will not work in denmark, because the phone will be deemed 
"capable" of doing it.




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Re: GPS/Cell phone patent issue

[ian douglas]

hank williams wrote:

Hmm... ok, so it "comes with it" but you cant use it without paying?


You can use TeleNav if you know where you are and where you're going. 
You only have to pay the extra $10 for the TeleNav service to use the 
GPS on the phone. Without the GPS, it'll still give you the turn-by-turn 
directions, but you have to manually advance the steps (much like Google 
Maps) as you travel.


-id


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Re: GPS/Cell phone patent issue

[ian douglas]

hank williams wrote:

I don't think any phones are going to come with
navigation data built in.


To my knowldge, the Samsung Blackjack 2 from AT&T includes maps from 
TeleNav. You have to pay an extra $10/month to use GPS with those maps 
of course, so I just use the Mobile Google Maps application which uses 
the GPS on the Blackjack 2 just fine.


-id



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SCALE 2008 recap, and a pre-paid SIM question for the list.

[ian douglas]

Hey all,

First piece of good news: Michael was *swamped* at SCALE 6x, answering 
questions from probably hundreds of people asking what an "open source 
phone" was all about. There's definitely a buzz in the industry about 
OpenMoko, and being at SCALE was a definite boost in the exposure of 
what this project is trying to do!
I wrote up a recap article on my blog if anyone's interested, and threw 
in a few badly-taken photos from a camera phone during one of the 
quieter moments. Relevant content about OpenMoko and getting my Neo 
working starts at the 3rd paragraph.

http://iandouglas.com/scale-2008-and-openmoko

Second piece of good news: my Neo works on both T-Mobile and AT&T now. 
The problems I had with T-Mobile from back in December had nothing to do 
with the GSM modem firmware -- T-Mobile had told me they activated the 
pre-paid $100/1000minute pay-as-you-go SIM card fully, just 
plug-and-play. Turns out they didn't actually activate the *minutes* on 
the card. (My 3G card from AT&T has a serial number on the wiki that 
matches a known working series of cards, but the T-Mobile card never worked)


After T-Mobile activated the minutes, my Neo still wouldn't register on 
the T-Mobile network, even after 4 hours during a recharge session and a 
25 mile drive through very metro areas of Los Angeles to get back to 
SCALE. Once I got back to SCALE, Michael tried the (supposedly now 
working) SIM card in his own T-Mobile phone, which received a call just 
fine from my AT&T cell phone, and only THEN does my Neo connect to the 
T-Mobile network.


So Michael and I discussed posing this experiment to the list to see if 
anyone else has come across something similar to know if my SIM card was 
just "special" (in a bad way), or whether others are experiencing this. 
Keep in mind the following points:


1. I had a pre-paid pay-as-you-go SIM card from T-Mobile
2. Inserting it into the Neo didn't register on the network
3. We placed the SIM in a phone sold by T-Mobile and it received a phone 
call
4. We put the SIM back into the Neo and it immediately registered on 
T-Mobile's network (usually within a matter of seconds).


If anyone else out there can reproduce this activity, or NOT, when using 
pre-paid SIM cards, we'd sure like to hear from you about it. We're 
trying to figure out if there's still something in the GSM firmware that 
needs to be taken care of, or if my Neo needs to be looked at by the 
hardware team.


Cheers,
Ian


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Re: Interview with Raider Realm

[ian douglas]

Will OpenMoko give any consideration to those of us who purchased the 
GTA01 before the tri-band issue was announced, to discount the price of 
a GTA02 to give us the functionality we thought we were initially 
purchasing? Like a trade-up of some sort like ATI used to do, where you 
send in your old ATI video card and they'd give you a discount towards a 
new one?


-id


Joachim Steiger wrote:

"Ortwin Regel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 02/12/08 3:22 PM >>>

It sounds like Michael was talking about GSM in general. The area not
covered by that indeed does seem negligible in the US. You have got a
different issue. From what I picked up, it is not reasonably possible
to change the hardware in a GTA01 to support the 850 Mhz band. The
best option you have is probably to sell your GTA01 and get a GTA02
that supports 850 Mhz when they become available.

Ortwin


this is correct.

due to limited resources we had to decide to rather focus on gta02 and
make 850MHz possible there instead of finding a reasonable process on
reworking gta01.

the point is that ((shipping and manhours doing it) + (the time to set
the whole logistics and process up / number of possible wanted reworks))
just gives a very unrealistic number which makes it even cheaper to
directly go to gta02-850 and sell the gta01 to somebody who can use it
in 900mhz-land.

reworking requires lots of time due to the high packaging density inside
a phone and also measuring equipment which we only have in asia.
(which generates hassle with customs, taxes, etc.. you really do not
wanna know ;)
its not only changing firmware in gsm and exchanging a few parts. it
also needs to be recalibrated.

to sum it up:
the status is that a 850mhz rework for gta01 for 'the masses' is not
possible.
please bear with us that this was not a decision taken lightly.




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Re: List of Linux Cell Phones

[ian douglas]

My understanding is that Michael got a list of all current handsets (GSM 
or otherwise) running some form of a Linux-based operating system on the 
device.


It would be nice to have the list on the wiki and include whether it's 
GSM only or GSM+other, etc., but I haven't got the time to volunteer for 
this task myself at the moment.


Ian


Schmidt András wrote:

Hi!

So it is a list of GSM phones which are capable of running linux?
Why is it important from OpenMoko's point of view? Are they capable of 
hosting the OpenMoko software? Or are they the concurrent hardware of Neo?

I just don't understand what you mean.

Best regards

Michael Schmidt wrote:

Hello

here is a list of Linux cellular phones.
Most of them have a camera build in.
you can search for them at google or here:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/
http://www.limofoundation.org/

Regards



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Re: List of Linux Cell Phones

[ian douglas]

joerg wrote:

I understood this site dealing with "Linux on my phone",


linuxdevices.com which Michael mentioned, has a page specifically 
listing Linux-powered handsets:

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html

... and the site also deals with routers, embedded linux, have TrollTech 
as a sponsor, etc., so I'm going with my earlier guess that the list 
Michael provided is a list of phones which utilize Linux on the device 
itself, not a list of phones known to connect to Linux as an external 
device to your desktop.


-id

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Re: Request for assistance: Need a wiki page for buying and selling GTA01

[ian douglas]

I bought my Neo through eBay based on notification to the mailing list 
by the seller once he'd started the auction listing.


We had quite a bidding war over it.

-id

Ortwin Regel wrote:

If I decided to sell my phone, I'd probably send a message
to the community mailing list. Is this wanted or would anyone be
annoyed by it? I'm not really sure but it would probably be the most
effective way to find a buyer for your phone.



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Re: Request for assistance: Need a wiki page for buying andselling GTA01

[ian douglas]

... which brings up an interesting question: how many people are likely to
want to buy a GTA01 once the GTA02 is released?

I'm thinking about listing my GTA01 for sale *now* than to try to sell it
in March/April/Whenever when demand for it will be much less.

Thoughts?

Ian


On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:25:22 -0500, "Christopher Earl"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My GTA01 will be for sale soon, I know there is no official date for the
> GTA02 but if i can get an unofficial answer from an official source on if
> it looks good or bad for march, same for April. This will dictate when my
> Neo gets listed  
> 
>>>> Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 02/19/08 6:42 PM >>>
> Yes, that too. I agree that this would be a completely appropriate item 
> to post to the community list. I'm suggesting the wiki page in addition, 
> and I think having your eBay listing listed on the wiki suggests that 
> you are a member of the community, and not some random outsider 
> (although hard to imagine any of them having a Neo :-)
> 
> Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> Wiki pages are nice but they are not really a good way to push info to
>> people as you would like to do if you have just put your phone on ebay
>> for sale. If I decided to sell my phone, I'd probably send a message
>> to the community mailing list. Is this wanted or would anyone be
>> annoyed by it? I'm not really sure but it would probably be the most
>> effective way to find a buyer for your phone.
>> 
>> Ortwin
>> 
>> On 2/19/08, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Thanks everyone for your feedback. As a number of you pointed out,
> there
>>> is no security in a contact you've made via a random web page, while
>>> eBay has a whole system in place to provide exactly the needed
> security.
>>>
>>> I think it makes perfect sense to use eBay.
>>>
>>> However, I propose we use our wiki page to point at such eBay listings,
>>> in case anyone has difficulty finding them on eBay.
>>>
>>> So, I propose we re-purpose our wiki page to indicate eBay listings,
>>> perhaps sorted simply into "BUYING" and "SELLING".
>>>
>>> Sound like a plan?
>>>
>>> I thank you all for your input.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> Michael Shiloh wrote:
>>>> Hi Community,
>>>>
>>>> I need your help.
>>>>
>>>> Having completely sold out of GTA01, we are still getting a large
> number
>>>> of requests for them.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, many of you intend to purchase a GTA02 and perhaps
>>>> feel you have no use for your GTA01.
>>>>
>>>> Some of you might have other reasons to sell your GTA01.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like a wiki page to allow these buyers and sellers to find each
> other.
>>>>
>>>> We have a wiki page for GTA01 owners who lived in 850 MHz-only areas
> to
>>>> sell their units; perhaps this page can be repurposed for this broader
>>>> issue.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we call this the OpenMoko flea market.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone?
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
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>>>
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ian douglas
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Re: eBay considered good option for GTA01 issue

[ian douglas]

Another user wrote:

eBay is a no brainer for those who wish to trade in their
GTA01 to recover some cash to apply toward GTA02.




BTW, if anyone is interested, someone (not me) has placed a GTA01 
Advanced Kit (including JTAG board) on eBay:


http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenMoko-GSM-W-SW-GTA01D-Premium-Kit-NEO-1973-Advanced_W0QQitemZ160210416097QQihZ006QQcategoryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Of course, it's a brand new eBay account listing the item, which would 
usually make me a little wary of the auction...


-id

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Question for OpenMoko: can we please buy just a battery?

[ian douglas]

I raised this question to Michael at SCALE 6x and wanted to publicly ask 
it as well but had forgotten until the latest list of messages on the 
device-users list about battery life times and charging.


Is it possible to purchase *just* a battery from you guys?

Thanks,
Ian

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Re: How Alice and Bob got telephone/SMS spam on their Moko.

[ian douglas]

Heikki Sørum wrote:

In my ideal world: Alice gets a OpenMoko, and then starts
getting annoying calls from Peach Corporation that would like to sell
here an Peach M-Phone. As Alice dislikes Peach Corporation, she tags
any sms/mms and caller ID's with a "Marketing Call" tag.



One of my favorite features from grandcentral.com is being able to tag 
numbers as spam which plays the "this number is no longer in service" 
tone and then the appropriate message about being a disconnected line.


Being able to do this within OpenMoko would be pretty slick too, though 
you won't really gain anything by marking SMS messages as spam -- you're 
still paying for the incoming message whether to tag it as spam or not, 
you'd only have the ability to place it within a 'spam' folder to review 
later.


Anyone want to port SpamAssassin to OpenMoko? ;o)

-id

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Re: How Alice and Bob got telephone/SMS spam on their Moko.

[ian douglas]

Tilman Baumann wrote:
In my eyes, trust should be calculated automaticly, not by manually 
defining trust (like pgp). Using the system could improve it.


Perhaps number of successful phone calls, and length of phone call to 
add a number of trust 'points' ... the more successful calls over some 
length of time, the more trusted someone becomes.


Still, having individual profiles as someone else mentioned, would be 
ideal too. For example, I'd want my wife's phone call to ring no matter 
time of day or busy status (meetings, etc). A call from my 
mother-in-law, however, should never play any ring tone during business 
hours, and unknown caller ID values should never play any ring tone and 
route them immediately to voice mail.


I have better things to do with my life than managing trust relations 
for my spam filter...


Well, even tools like SpamAssassin need training to teach it what is 
considered spam or not.


-id


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Re: How Alice and Bob got telephone/SMS spam on their Moko.

[ian douglas]

Tilman Baumann wrote:

Yea. But this is limited to a simple question 'was this call spam?'.
What i mean was that you should have 'the list[tm]' that is 
automatically the right thing for you.


Yes, I agree, it should be personalized to the user/phone, and being 
prompted after a call to specify spam/non-spam would be nice, but might 
get annoying for users too.


Using a downloadable database of spammy phone numbers to block calls or 
SMS message from could get quite large. Plus you have to deal with users 
attempting to poison the database, such as the "Mallory" user that 
Heikki originally discussed.


I don't have access from work, but has anyone started a wiki page about 
a feature list for a call/sms filtering package? I'd be happy to add my 
$0.02 to a feature list and help with building some of the software.


-id

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Re: questions about Neo FreeRunner

[ian douglas]

Shawn wrote:
Does anyone currently use a Neo on T-mobile's network? If so, do you 
have the data plan and does it work well (:


I use it for calls on T-Mobile, but not for data -- I have a prepaid SIM 
card (1000 minutes) but haven't tried data connections at all. I'm not 
sure if it's included in the prepaid card's service or not.


Ian

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Re: About ipkg on Openmoko

[ian douglas]

I've found that connecting the Neo to my PC built a resolv.conf pointing 
to my workstation's address (192.168.0.200) which obviously doesn't do 
DNS lookups.


I solved it by writing a new resolv.conf using OpenDNS:

nameserver 208.67.222.222
nameserver 208.67.220.220

It'd be trivial to grep the /etc/resolv.conf on a startup task on the 
Neo to see whether "nameserver 192.168.0.200" is in the resolv.conf file 
and overwrite it with this copy instead.


-id

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Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see

[ian douglas]

Jeff Andros wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see a plugin for pidgin that turns it into an IM 
proxy... the NEO would connect in to my system here and use pidgin on 
it... that way I have unified logs, a single place to sign in, etc


I concur -- running Pidgin on three different platforms, it's a serious 
pain to copy logs and account settings to all machines. The proxy idea 
is an interesting thought.


-id

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Re: Audio wired Headset

[ian douglas]

Am Di  4. März 2008 schrieb Gilles Casse:

Is it possible to buy a new audio wired headset from OpenMoko.inc?
Otherwise, where can we get one please (OpenMoko distributor?).


I mentioned to Michael at SCALE 2008 that having a 'store' where we 
could buy stray parts, like batteries would be a great idea. He 
mentioned too that selling just the debug board with JTAG connectors, 
etc., would make a lot of sense too.


Michael, any update on this?

-id


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Re: iPhone Acquired!

[ian douglas]

Kyle Bassett wrote:

I have acquired an 8GB iPhone
I actually am writing for suggestions to 
make this iPhone helpful to the OpenMoko community.


Likewise, I won an 8GB iPod Touch (essentially the iPhone without the 
cell phone components), and I'd love to run OpenMoko on it at some point.


I bet searching Google for hardware specs would give you enough starter 
information on configuring the OpenMoko build software to cross compile 
for the platform though? I'm not sure how you'd get/install the firmware 
on the device though given the only means to install other firmware is 
via iTunes (at least for the Touch, don't know about the iPhone).


-id

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Re: iPhone Acquired!

[ian douglas]

If I recall, the iPhone is a "3G" phone, but only uses EDGE on 3G, the 
slowest speed. I have a friend with an iPhone, I'll ask if I can borrow 
his SIM to see if it'll connect to AT&T on my Neo later this week.


-id

Michael Shiloh wrote:
Do you have an AT&T SIM card? Does it work with your iPhone? (I know you 
said you didn't get an AT&T contract.)


I'd be very interested in whether that SIM card works in a Neo.



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Re: Audio wired Headset

[ian douglas]

Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
I simply agree... JTAG for example, could be needed for standard users 
only after bricking the device, and new/extra batteries will be needed 
soon!


So:

- batteries
- headphones
- JTAG interfaces
- sylus
- stylus batteries?

I'm not sure it's economically worthwihle trying to resell microSD cards 
since that's a well-saturated market, though the convenience of being 
able to purchase them while purchasing other items might be nice?


Any other ideas?

-id

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Neo1973 on eBay

[ian douglas]

Starting bid is $200.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120232014254

I'm including a 2GB microSD card instead of the 512MB that shipped with 
the phone, and also including a USB cable (I hate when cables aren't 
included!)


More photos at http://iandouglas.com/neo1973/


Now that I'm commuting 3-4 hours to my job, I simply lack the time to 
continue development, so might as well let someone have it that can use it.


Does NOT come with my pre-paid T-Mobile card though, I don't know the 
legalities of selling the card.


Michael Shiloh has personally seen my phone (upgraded the modem 
firmware), and dozens of people saw it and used it at SCALE 6x a few 
weeks back, so it's in great operating condition.


-id

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Re: Question for those of you for whom I've done a GSM firmware upgrade

[ian douglas]

If it helps any, using the March 4th daily build, my Neo registers just 
fine on both my TMobile and AT&T SIM's and both receive SMS messages and 
can place phone calls.


Mind you, I can connect to TMobile from within my apartment to 
make/receive a phone call and receive SMS messages. Inserting my AT&T 
SIM, I connected enough to download SMS messages, but to make a phone 
call I had to go outside where I have better AT&T reception. Must be the 
layout of the building where I live.


-id


Michael Shiloh wrote:

Hello,

As most of you know, there was a bug in earlier GSM firmware on Neo 1973 
which prevented certain AT&T 3G SIM cards from working in the Neo 1973.


As most of you know, the upgraded GSM firmware that fixed this problem 
could only be installed by an employee of Openmoko.


I peformed this upgrade for perhaps a couple dozen of you.

After I upgraded the firmware on your phones I tested them with my 
personal AT&T SIM card, and they always worked fine.


Starting a few months ago my AT&T SIM card no longer works in upgraded 
Neos.


We're trying to get to the bottom of this. Meanwhile, a useful point of 
information would be your experience:


For those of you for whom I performed the GSM firmware upgrade, did the 
Neo 1973 work properly with your AT&T SIM card after the upgrade? Most 
of you wrote me when you received the phones to indicate that it did. 
Does it continue to do so? If not, when did this start happening? What 
are the symptoms?


For the larger community, do any of you have insight into cellphone 
tower technology? Has AT&T performed an update in the past few months?


Is it possible that AT&T has modified its policy towards unlocked phones?

These are all extreme notions - it is far more likely that something 
trivial and local has occurred. Perhaps I've forgotten to do something 
(although I've reviewed my steps in excrutiating detail with the folks 
back home) during the upgrade process. But since I'm completely out of 
ideas, I'm reaching to the less plausible.


Any ideas welcome, including crackpot ideas. To paraphrase Sherlock 
Holmes, when you have removed the possibility of all other causes, the 
one remaining explanation, no matter how implausible, must be the one.


Michael

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Re: Question for those of you for whom I've done a GSM firmware upgrade

[ian douglas]

According to AT&T's map, zoomed in at my street address:

MODERATE: The areas shown in the light orange should have sufficient 
signal strength for on-street or in-the-open coverage, but may not have 
it for in-vehicle coverage or in-building coverage. This AT&T owned 
network provides GSM, GPRS, and EDGE service.



T-Mobile's site lists my address as a "2 bars" location saying I should 
be able to make calls outdoors, but likely not inside a building.



GSMWorld.com states that T-Mobile only uses 1900MHz:
http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/net_uswe.shtml

... and that AT&T uses 850/1900:
http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/net_usb3.shtml


And since the Neo cannot operate at 850MHz, it means I'm only using 1900MHz.

-id


Michael Shiloh wrote:

Do you know offhand what bands are used by TMobile and AT&T in your area?

Michael

ian douglas wrote:
If it helps any, using the March 4th daily build, my Neo registers 
just fine on both my TMobile and AT&T SIM's and both receive SMS 
messages and can place phone calls.


Mind you, I can connect to TMobile from within my apartment to 
make/receive a phone call and receive SMS messages. Inserting my AT&T 
SIM, I connected enough to download SMS messages, but to make a phone 
call I had to go outside where I have better AT&T reception. Must be 
the layout of the building where I live.


-id


Michael Shiloh wrote:

Hello,

As most of you know, there was a bug in earlier GSM firmware on Neo 
1973 which prevented certain AT&T 3G SIM cards from working in the 
Neo 1973.


As most of you know, the upgraded GSM firmware that fixed this 
problem could only be installed by an employee of Openmoko.


I peformed this upgrade for perhaps a couple dozen of you.

After I upgraded the firmware on your phones I tested them with my 
personal AT&T SIM card, and they always worked fine.


Starting a few months ago my AT&T SIM card no longer works in 
upgraded Neos.


We're trying to get to the bottom of this. Meanwhile, a useful point 
of information would be your experience:


For those of you for whom I performed the GSM firmware upgrade, did 
the Neo 1973 work properly with your AT&T SIM card after the upgrade? 
Most of you wrote me when you received the phones to indicate that it 
did. Does it continue to do so? If not, when did this start 
happening? What are the symptoms?


For the larger community, do any of you have insight into cellphone 
tower technology? Has AT&T performed an update in the past few months?


Is it possible that AT&T has modified its policy towards unlocked 
phones?


These are all extreme notions - it is far more likely that something 
trivial and local has occurred. Perhaps I've forgotten to do 
something (although I've reviewed my steps in excrutiating detail 
with the folks back home) during the upgrade process. But since I'm 
completely out of ideas, I'm reaching to the less plausible.


Any ideas welcome, including crackpot ideas. To paraphrase Sherlock 
Holmes, when you have removed the possibility of all other causes, 
the one remaining explanation, no matter how implausible, must be the 
one.


Michael

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Re: Question for those of you for whom I've done a GSM firmware upgrade

[ian douglas]

Michael Shiloh wrote:

I checked the map, and I'm in the same situation as you: 1900 and 850.
But I notice the maps are not maintained by the providers. How do we 
know they are up to date?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile
"The US T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS 1900 MHz 
frequency-band"

(this page also says T-Mobile uses 900/1800 in Europe)

The key word being 'predominately' of course, but doesn't back it up 
with what else it does use, otherwise the author should have used the 
word 'exclusively'. A little more digging found this:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_%28USA%29
"T-Mobile USA has ... roaming arrangements with ... AT&T Mobility ... 
predominately provided service using the GSM 850 MHz band"


So by that account, T-Mobile is 850/1900. I clipped out the other 
carriers partnered with T-Mobile, and other irrelevant bits.



The wiki page for AT&T Mobility only mentions in passing that it uses 
1900 as part of an initial joint communications project with T-Mobile, 
but says nothing of 850/900/1800, however we can see from the above 
statement of T-Mobile piggy-backing on AT&T's 850 network that AT&T 
*must* use 850, which backs up documentation that I've seen that says 
AT&T *only* uses 850/1900 in North America. There was one post I saw 
that claimed AT&T used 900 in New York City but couldn't find any 
additional documentation to back that up.



The wiki page for GSM usage in North America:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands#GSM_frequency_usage_in_the_Americas

... simply points back to gsmworld.com:

http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_us.shtml

Again, where we see AT&T uses 850/1900, and T-Mobile uses 1900.


Is there a way to tell on the Neo which frequency band it's currently 
using? That might be kind of handy...


Ian


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Re: Question for those of you for whom I've done a GSM firmware upgrade

[ian douglas]

Mike confirmed that my home address is in an 850/1900 area, which gave 
me decent T-Mobile coverage, and weak-but-present coverage with AT&T.


Ian


Mike Hodson wrote:

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ian,

I checked the map, and I'm in the same situation as you: 1900 and 850.

But I notice the maps are not maintained by the providers. How do we
know they are up to date?

Michael


If you need, I can get a very detailed map at street level for you,
with regard to the closest towers and which bands they support.  Such
is a fringe benefit of working for Radioshack; ATT never changed the
Cingular mapping tool login passwords for the stores :)

What is your ZIP code?  (For more of a closeup, give me a street
intersection or address, in private if you like)

Mike

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Re: hand charger for neo

[ian douglas]

joerg wrote:

get yourself a powered usb-hub



Personally, I ordered a gadget talked about on Andy Powell's blog on the 
weekend:


http://blog.automated.it/2008/03/08/how-long-does-yours-stay-up/

In his blog article, he talks about a USB power pack that you charge, 
and then attach other devices to the power pack to recharge them. 
Portable power source, if you will. Combined with Bobby Martin's script 
to switch to 500mA charging, this should work very well.


Link to the device:
http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/usbliionbatterypack.htm

I ordered the 'standard' version (£21.50 inc p&p) with the extra power 
charger nibs for my iPod touch and Samsung phone, and until my Neo sells 
on eBay, I'll use it for my Neo too.


Cheers,
Ian

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Re: "Openmoko Wiki Official Index Page" updated news

[ian douglas]

Hi Brenda,

I know you work primarily on the wiki, but don't forget to rename the 
mailing lists too from OpenMoko to Openmoko


-id


Brenda Wang wrote:

Hi, everybody:
"Openmoko Wiki Official Index Page"  now is almost finished.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Official_Index_Page

It collect "All pages"  link.  Then every title will be put into 
"category" by its content .
If you create the new page, you can help us to put the new title into 
the index page too.


Brenda


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Re: Neo1973 on eBay

[ian douglas]

Just under 3 days left!



ian douglas wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120232014254



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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[ian douglas]

Mark wrote:

Michael Shiloh michael at openmoko.org

If you have little interest in putting up with the
frustrations that will surely follow, you will do best to wait for the
consumer software to be ready.


...in other words, it *is* intended strictly as a developer's plaything,
and you have no interest whatsoever in selling to consumers.


Mark, did you even read Michael's last sentence? They *plan* for a 
consumer-ready product. They've said this all along.


I met Michael at a Linux expo here in Los Angeles and worked in the 
booth with him for a few hours, and I overheard him tell dozens of 
interested people that the hardware would be available to developers so 
they could assist with getting the software consumer-ready, and that the 
consumer-ready software would likely take a number of months to finish up.


I've been following this thread somewhat in silent awe, but it makes me 
wonder, Mark, why you keep up such a negative attitude about the Neo and 
Freerunner. If you're not happy waiting, look elsewhere. We're all fine 
(it seems, except you) waiting for regular status updates coming from 
Michael on behalf of the team in Taiwan. Michael is the liaison and 
gives up updates as he gets them. And asking the hardware techs to blog 
about status is a waste of time.


Please sit down and be patient like the rest of us, and either 
contribute something *constructive* to the list (and to the software), 
or unsubscribe from the mailing list. Your week's worth of ranting isn't 
solving anything.


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Re: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status

[ian douglas]

Hi Michael (and Steve),

I'm surprised nobody has asked yet:

I know Michael himself has admitted that Openmoko has been historically 
bad at estimating delivery dates, but is there *any* chance on getting 
an updated timeline now that we have this news about the A5/A6?


IE: How long can we (reasonably) expect the design update from A5 to A6 
expect to take? Will the PVT take a week? Two weeks? How long will final 
production take to ramp up and start seeing units make their way to 
shipping departments?


Ian

Michael Shiloh wrote:

Hi everyone,

I just received a status report from our VP of Marketing, Steve Mosher:


The Freerunner design is currently staged to go through Production
Validation Test (PVT). The hardware design A5 is, we believe, solid. We 
are updating this design to A6 to maximize production yields.


The purpose of PVT is to make sure the yield is high enough, and to make 
sure the manufacturing and testing process is smooth and efficient.


Steve also welcomes direct contact from you. He can be reached at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Michael

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Re: Price of the Freerunner published?

[ian douglas]

Vincent wrote:

2. 19% VAT in germany
3. x% additional fees (recycling, ...) in germany/europe

Regarding points 1, 2, 3 and 6 - doesn't the US have something similar? 


2. I'm originally from Canada, but my experience in the US is that each 
state, and sometimes within separate counties within the state can 
charge varying amounts of tax. On a whole though, the Federal government 
does not add a value-added tax (VAT), like the Canadian government does 
with the GST (goods and services tax).


3. California typically charges an "environmental waste impact" (or some 
similarly-phrased term) for electronics. I don't know about other 
states. We're all supposed to be a bunch of tree-huggers or something 
out here /shrug


Regarding 5 - shouldn't the prices be according to current exchange 
rates? Isn't that the whole point of exchange rates?


Currency exchange rates can be pretty volatile though, and basing a 
price on a currency that's fluctuating a lot (like the US dollar), in my 
opinion, doesn't make as much sense. At the same time, marketing the 
Freerunner in, say, Euros, might make these Americans around me feel 
alienated or something. ;o)


Just my $0.02 ... plus tax.

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Re: Neo1973 on eBay

[ian douglas]

Less than a day left for anyone interested. :o)

ian douglas wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120232014254



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Re: Further details of theprocess as we ramp up production of Freerunner

[ian douglas]

Shawn wrote:
Do you need people to physically test the phones that are being run on 
this process? (:


The best way for them to test the devices are created uniformly is to 
test them uniformly, so it's pretty much a given that a QA team at 
Openmoko will test every unit coming off the line, not the Openmoko 
Community, as bad as we'd all love to help.


-id


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Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[ian douglas]

Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and 
can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C 
compatible should work.


Just my $0.02 here, but:

*Should* work, or *definitely* work? I'd rather not buy a 'maybe' 
battery and would rather buy a branded battery direct from OM...


But if enough people test these BL-?C batteries and prove they work just 
fine and nobody has any incidents related to a Nokia battery, then okay, 
I'll look for a local vendor selling them if I need a spare battery.


I ran into the same issue with my iRiver digital music player, I needed 
a replacement, but iRiver didn't make this model any more so 
after-market batteries were all that were left. In the end, an iPod 
replacement battery did the job, but the polarity on the jumper header 
needed to be switched before plugging it in and reassembling the case. I 
only ordered the battery once I'd read about 20 personal accounts that, 
yeah, this particular battery worked just fine, no incidents.


Just the 'realist' in me coming out to play. :o)

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Re: Who is who ?

[ian douglas]

Ian Darwin wrote:

How does having more bureaucracy help you find out who is trustworthy?
Anybody can sign up on the wiki.


I agree with this -- anyone can sign up on the wiki and claim anything 
they like.


If I had to guess, I'd say anyone with an @openmoko.com Email address is 
pretty trustworthy. As for who else on the list is more worthy of our 
trust than others, spend a few weeks on the list and see who's answering 
questions and how many of those go corrected by other members (or not), 
and you'll start to learn which people on the list know what they're 
talking about.


And as a friendly reminder to new subscribers to the list, feel free to 
look back through the list archive to read up on information. Things 
like the "400MHz cpu vs 500MHz cpu" was covered back in January or February.


-id

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[ian douglas]

Robin Paulson wrote:

2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

 I also would like to have - may be separately:
 - Stylus



personally, i'd want:
*a modified charger (if one is made)
*a pouch
included, and that's it



I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. 
Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm 
sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh 
well), but include *something*.


-id

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Los Angeles (or Southern California 10-pack)

[ian douglas]

Added my name to the bulk-purchase price for the FreeRunner for the Los 
Angeles area. I'm technically in Santa Monica now, but if anyone else in 
the city is interested, add your names to the list on the wiki and save 
a few bucks.


Personally, I'll probably opt for the fastest shipping method possible. 
I'm tired of waiting ;o)


-id

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Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework

[ian douglas]

I agree.

If the LED's are used by the software to show various states in the 
software, then why can't we just use software to turn them off when we 
don't want them on?


Problem solved, without any hardware hacks needed.

That's the beauty of open source. Find where the lights are controlled, 
work around it so the LED's never stay on permanently if you don't want 
them to, and carry on.


-id


Federico Lorenzi wrote:

How long exactly do you plan on keeping your LEDs on for?
the LEDs aren't exactly a deal breaking feature.


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Re: Welcome to Openmoko GSoC

[ian douglas]

Daniel Willmann wrote:

IM/VoIP using telepathy



I'm hoping you meant telephony? Or is Google seriously funding some sort 
of telekenesis projects? ;o)


-id

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Re: Welcome to Openmoko GSoC

[ian douglas]

Ah, thanks for the correction.

Joseph Jon Booker wrote:

IM/VoIP using telepathy


http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/



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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

[ian douglas]

Ian Darwin wrote:

steve wrote:
Anybody can take a seam ripper to the old pouch and reverse engineer 
it. Hmm. That's a problem, perhaps I should have people sign EULAs to 
prevent pouch poaching.


Apparently the dog you see reflected in one of Michael's preliminary 
photos did chew up one of the pouches sent in one of his shipments.


Giving us OpenMokos's first taste of... Pooch pouch poaching.


... leaving a lovely mess in Michael's yard in the first case of pooch 
pouch poaching pooping ?


Sorry, couldn't help myself.

-id

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Re: What US plans are people using?

[ian douglas]

Travis Tabbal wrote:

 Has the 850Mhz issue been resolved?



The Freerunner will be sold in 850/1800/1900 tri-band, and 900/1800/1900 
tri-band models. You'll have to specify which model you want when you order.


-id

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bulk order question

[ian douglas]

Steve,

I understand about the discount on the bulk order of 10 Freerunners, but 
do all 10 have to be the same tri-band mode, ie: 10 of the 850/1800/1900 
phones or 10 of the 900/1800/1900 phones, or can we mix and match as 
long as we have 10 phones in the box?


-id

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GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?)

[ian douglas]

Travis Tabbal wrote:

Of course, a quad band setup would be preferred


Hey OpenMoko team, has anyone started a wish-list for the GTA03 yet?

- true quad-band
- a place to hide a stylus
- anti pooch pouch poaching device


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Re: What US plans are people using?

[ian douglas]

Travis Tabbal wrote:

This implies that a GTA01bv4 can NOT use 850 mhz. But my Neo1973 works
PERFECTLY in the USA, which means either it DOES support 850mhz OR
that the LACK of 850mhz is irrelevant.

As I understand it, 850 will matter or not depending on where you live 
and what provider you use. So you might be in an area or with a provider 
that uses 1900 a large majority of the time. Those selling GTA01 units 
probably live in an area that requires 850 for decent coverage.


I can confirm Travis' comments. Until a month ago, I lived in an area of 
Los Angeles that dropped my current AT&T phone down to 850MHz, and the 
Neo would not connect to the AT&T network when this happened. Once I was 
out in the open, the GTA01v4 connected to AT&T just fine.


It'd be handy to modify the firmware to indicate on the GUI which band 
the Neo/Freeruner is using, if that's possible. Not sure if that's been 
discussed before or not.


-id

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Re: Freerunner AC adaptor

[ian douglas]

Just as a comparison, since my workplace just got me a Blackberry World 
Phone (8830), here's a photo of the power adapters that come with it, 
which I guess connect to the standard American power plug.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2435261066/

For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but 
I didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws.


-id


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Re: What US plans are people using?

[ian douglas]

Brandon Kruger wrote:
I have the "Media Net Unlimited" package which gives me unlimied data usage 
for $15/month.  Just try not to let them know it's for a PDA-ish device or 
they may try to make you get the $60 equivalent for PDAs instead.



The $60 equivalent includes "tethering" which lets you use your 
PDA/Smartphone (like my Blackjack 2) as a USB modem to connect some 
other data device like a laptop. It would be inapplicable in this case, 
as the Neo/Freerunner will behave on its own as a PDA/Smartphone, and 
AT&T will gladly sell you just the Media Net Unlimited plan for a 
Smartphone without requiring the tethering option.


I had to ask explicitly three times with three reps back in December to 
GET the tethering option turned on for my Blackjack 2 so I could use my 
laptop wherever I went. Once the Freerunner is released, I might scale 
back on the tethering since between my Blackjack 2 on AT&T, Freerunner 
on TMobile, and now a Blackberry on Verizon, I'm pretty much covered, 
much to my wife's chagrin.


-id

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Re: What US plans are people using?

[ian douglas]

If you already have a capable phone, I don't see why they wouldn't just 
sell you just the SIM card and data/voice plan.


Ben Burdette wrote:
How did you get the plan to begin with?  Surely they didn't just give 
you a SIM card, did you already have another phone or did you buy a 
cheap phone?



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Re: What US plans are people using?

[ian douglas]

Brandon Kruger wrote:
It may not be allowed in the fine print, but I never had any problems 
tethering my A707 with that plan to my laptop over BT or USB.


The sales guy I talked to at AT&T back in December said they can catch 
this behavior by monitoring your data transfer behavior, and charge you 
for excessive use or monitor you closer to see if you're actually 
tethering to some sort of desktop/laptop device and add applicable fees.


/shrug

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Re: What US plans are people using?

[ian douglas]

Yes, AT&T uses both 850 and either 1800 or 1900 (I forget which at the 
moment, maybe 1900 and TMobile uses 1800, or vice versa?).


In my last apartment, where there were a lot of buildings very close 
together, lots of concrete, etc., my usual AT&T phone (Blackjack 2) 
would only connect on the lower frequency and display the EDGE logo all 
the time, and the phone would often cause other electronics with 
speakers to buzz horrendously -- haven't had that problem in the new 
place where my Blackjack 2 displays that it's connected to 3G all the 
time instead of EDGE.


But I was able to consistently test that, within my old apartment, the 
Neo would only connect on TMobile when I was indoors, and would only 
connect on AT&T if I was out in the open outside in the courtyard where, 
I guess, the higher frequency network could get through. I was never 
able to connect to AT&T indoors at the old place.


Once I get a Freerunner, I'll go visit a friend at the old apartment 
complex, and test that the 850MHz mode on the Freerunner can connect on 
the lower frequency.


-id


Travis Tabbal wrote:
I found some coverage maps on gsmworld.com . I 
don't know how accurate they are, none of my current phones tell you 
what band they are using. AT&T has a mish-mash of both all over the 
place from what I could tell.





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Re: Thoughts about calls not taken

[ian douglas]

2. Called person cannot talk right now (Meeting, cinema, etc.)


I use pidgin (gaim) for IM, and you can set several 'away' messages 
depending on why you don't want to be disturbed. Some sort of voicemail 
app on the phone which plays back one of several messages like "Hi, I'm 
enjoying a movie right now, leave a message or check back later" or 
"Sorry I can't take your call, I'm in a meeting, leave a message" or 
whatever.


Has this service already been hacked in a way that it's possible to use 
this without an iPhone?


I've read recently that someone's trying to sue Apple (or vice versa) 
over a patent related to visual voice mail, so I don't think you'd want 
to get *too* similar.


-id

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Re: Thoughts about calls not taken

[ian douglas]

Sorry, just realized I hadn't finished my thought...

ian douglas wrote:
I use pidgin (gaim) for IM, and you can set several 'away' messages 
depending on why you don't want to be disturbed. Some sort of voicemail 
app on the phone which plays back one of several messages like "Hi, I'm 
enjoying a movie right now, leave a message or check back later" or 
"Sorry I can't take your call, I'm in a meeting, leave a message" or 
whatever.


... Having a voice mail app on the phone that acts like pidgin for 
setting multiple 'away' scenarios would be extremely useful. I've seen 
some Emails on the list recently about a voice mail app, but I don't 
recall what it was called or whether it has this sort of feature. 
Haven't got the time at the moment to look it up and see.


-id

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Re: Thoughts about calls not taken

[ian douglas]

ian douglas wrote:

I use pidgin (gaim) for IM,


I tried to use pidgin on the OM but found that I couldn't enter my IM
profile details as the multi-tap keyboard didn't get 'activated' when in
these fields - has this been fixed now? /me will try again if this is
the case.


No, I use it on my desktop and mentioned it solely for comparison of how 
an on-phone answering machine app would be most useful. Sorry for not 
being clear.


-id

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Re: What US plans are people using?

[ian douglas]

Rivera wrote:

How do you tell which band the phone is currently connecting to?


Someone stated in the last day or so that there's an AT command you can 
send to the Neo's modem to tell which service.



how did you know the Blackjack 2 would only connect to the lower freq?


The basis of my assumption is that only the higher-power 850MHz 
frequency could make it through/around the concrete of our old apartment 
building, especially since the Neo could not connect indoors on AT&T 
whatsoever, but my Blackjack 2 could connect all the time, no matter 
what. Also, the radio signal from the Blackjack 2 would cause any 
speakers (computer, radio, tv) to buzz VERY loudly at the old apartment, 
but at the new apartment where it shows me the 3G icon all the time 
instead of the EDGE icon, it doesn't buzz any of our speakers even a 
tiny bit.


I don't know if there's any correlation between only seeing the EDGE 
icon appear on my Blackjack 2 while indoors at the old apartment and 
having the phone switch to 3G while outside as to which frequency I was 
connecting on. I see from one source that EDGE can work on both 850MHz 
and 1900MHz, the two frequencies used by AT&T, so perhaps I am still a 
bit confused about it. I guess I thought EDGE only used 850MHz and 3G 
was 1900MHz but I see from online documentation that that's not correct.


-id

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Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

[ian douglas]

My new Blackberry 8830 charger draws 500mA

-id


For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but 
I didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws.


-id



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Re: Group ordering details?

[ian douglas]

I imagine that one of the 10 people who wants to be part of the bulk 
order will be responsible for collecting the funds from the other 9 
orders, waiting for checks to clear, etc., and then place the order with 
OpenMoko.


It's really up to the group. I know personally I'd hate to pony up the 
$3690 plus taxes plus shipping for a box of phones and THEN worry about 
how I'm going to get money from everyone who wants one ... I'd want 
their money up front, and it'll take trust on both sides, same as if you 
order something online. But paying someone with paypal can also be 
abused, etc., which is why so many local groups are forming.


Just my $0.02.

-id


Shawn wrote:

Hi,

Is it too early in the game to start worrying about group ordering 
details? Specifically:


* How do we pay? (one lump sum, or can individuals from the group pay 
you directly)
* How are the phones shipped? Can we request that they be sent via FedEx 
"Bill to Recipient"? A member of our group works for FedEx and gets free 
shipping.

* What happens if we have more than 10 people that want phones?

(these are all being asked by the Colorado group, guys chime in if I 
forgot anything).


Thanks!

. . . Shawn



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Re: 10 or more phones order

[ian douglas]

Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
Well, may be that i missed the answer but someone asked if  the discount 
and the extra stuff are applied only to the 10 pack or it could also be 
a 12 pack?

So to let you understand the condition is:

if (phones_ordered == 10)
do_the_10_pack_trick();



More like:

if (phones_ordered && phones_ordered % 10 == 0)
do_the_10_pack_trick();

Steve has already mentioned on the list that ordering 11 phones means 
getting a bulk discount on the 10-pack, but paying full price on the 
stray 11th phone.


-id

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Re: mobile gps gaming

[ian douglas]

Robin Paulson wrote:

i just listened to an interesting piece on the bbc about gps gaming on
mobile phones:



There was a group of people in some major American city a year or so ago 
that played a city-wide game of PacMan using GPS-enabled phones... 
teammates would lead the 'ghost' characters to where the PacMan 
character was, and so on. Got a fair bit of press.


I'm excited at what the Freerunner will be capable of in this regard, as 
it would be FAR easier to write/play GPS games with an open phone.


-id

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Re: mobile gps gaming

[ian douglas]

Michael Shiloh wrote:

Was this organized by the group "area code"?



http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2004/05/63400

I was mistaken, I thought it had been run with GPS phones, but it was 
back in 2004 (I thought it was much more recent) and they couldn't use 
GPS due to the tall buildings in Manhattan.


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Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)

[ian douglas]

Kevin Dean wrote:

Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this?


From Steve's Email to the Community list April 24 at 12:44pm Pacific 
time with a subject of "10 PACK UPDATE!!!" :

"Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets."

In an Email around that same week, he had given the weight of about 3 
pounds for 10 units, which I remember thinking sounded too light for 10 
units (unless he meant 3lbs per phone?), and had given the dimensions of 
the larger box that would contain all 10 boxes but I don't recall those 
offhand. He had quoted about $70 to ship a 10-pack to somewhere in 
Europe and guessed it would be ~$20 to ship within the US.


For those of us coordinating a 10-pack order, I guess we'll be 
responsible too for getting smaller boxes to ship in, plus whatever 
postage/shipping costs to distribute the smaller boxes to the other people?


If Steve's throwing in a pouch and headset for 10-pack orders, then I 
doubt the larger box will contain 10 pre-packaged ready-to-ship boxes 
with the pouch/headset already inside?


-id

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Is anyone else getting 2 or 3 copies of every mails?

[ian douglas]

Hey all,

I'm randomly getting a second and sometimes a third copy of messages 
coming to the list. For exampe, Torfinn Ingolfsen's last Email with a 
subject line "Re: Software" -- I got three copies. I also got three 
copies of Bradley Hook's message about the external displays, but only 
one copy of Gabriel Ambeuhl's Email in the same thread.


Anyone else seeing this?

This doesn't affect any other mailing list or personal messages coming 
to my Email account, which helped me pinpoint that it's an issue with 
the OpenMoko community list.


Thanks,
Ian

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Re: Is anyone else getting 2 or 3 copies of every mails?

[ian douglas]

Likewise, I got one copy of Daniel Barkalow's Email just before I sent 
my message, but received three copies of my own post.



ian douglas wrote:

Hey all,

I'm randomly getting a second and sometimes a third copy of messages 
coming to the list. For exampe, Torfinn Ingolfsen's last Email with a 
subject line "Re: Software" -- I got three copies. I also got three 
copies of Bradley Hook's message about the external displays, but only 
one copy of Gabriel Ambeuhl's Email in the same thread.


Anyone else seeing this?

This doesn't affect any other mailing list or personal messages coming 
to my Email account, which helped me pinpoint that it's an issue with 
the OpenMoko community list.


Thanks,
Ian

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Re: Is anyone else getting 2 or 3 copies of every mails?

[ian douglas]

Michele Renda wrote:
> Only one copy also for me. It is like you registered two / three
> times. Are you sure you don't have mail fowarding activated to
> another email address registered to this mailing list?

Nope, I've always only had a single address on the list, and I've been a 
member since last summer.


I got 3 copies of my own follow-up, 3 copies of Mo's response, and two 
copies of Michele's, and none of them were a CC to both the list AND my 
address... all replies were only to the list address. All copies share 
an identical Message-Id, but I see some different send times from the 
mail headers.


Using Mo's response, and looking at the mail headers, I see this block:

Copy 1:
Received: from dashavoo.com ([80.68.90.193])
by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JtVGV-00059x-Rb
for community@lists.openmoko.org; Wed, 07 May 2008 00:04:15 +0200

Copy 2:
Received: from dashavoo.com ([80.68.90.193])
by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JtVGV-00059x-Rb
for community@lists.openmoko.org; Wed, 07 May 2008 00:04:15 +0200

Copy 3:
Received: from dashavoo.com ([80.68.90.193])
by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JtVGN-00059m-4G
for community@lists.openmoko.org; Wed, 07 May 2008 00:04:07 +0200


... so the third copy definitely sent to the mailing list engine a 
second time, like maybe the mailing list engine looped back through 
incoming messages? But I can't see any differences in the first two 
copies of the message at all, nor any differences in the raw message 
(headers, etc) from the two copies I got from Michele via gmail.


It started a maybe two weeks ago with getting second copies, but today 
I'm getting third copies, so wanted to ask what was up. I remember 
seeing posts a while back about duplicate messages, and someone had to 
reset something with the mailing list engine.


Like I said, this is only affecting messages from the OpenMoko Community 
list. My personal Email and other mailing lists I'm on only deliver a 
single copy.


Can someone in charge of the list take a look at it pretty-please?

-id

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Re: Is anyone else getting 2 or 3 copies of every mails?

[ian douglas]

As I've mentioned already though, the copies I'm getting are all 
duplicates from the mailing list -- I got two copies of your message, 
but both copies were only sent to the mailing list. None of the extra 
copies I've received today had me personally listed as a To: or CC: 
recipient, and the Message-Id fields are always similar so I'm not 
getting BCC'd copies.


I quite confident that it's an issue with the mailing list.

-id


Bastian Muck wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

there might be an answer to this. When you write an email an someone 
uses the "answer-all" function you get an email adressed to your email 
adress and one to the mailinglist. Possibly that might be an answer. And 
of course sometimes there are double-posts.


Greetings Bastia
ian douglas schrieb:
| Michele Renda wrote:
| > Only one copy also for me. It is like you registered two / three
| > times. Are you sure you don't have mail fowarding activated to
| > another email address registered to this mailing list?
|
| Nope, I've always only had a single address on the list, and I've been 
a member since last summer.

|
| I got 3 copies of my own follow-up, 3 copies of Mo's response, and two 
copies of Michele's, and none of them were a CC to both the list AND my 
address... all replies were only to the list address. All copies share 
an identical Message-Id, but I see some different send times from the 
mail headers.

|
| Using Mo's response, and looking at the mail headers, I see this block:
|
| Copy 1:
| Received: from dashavoo.com ([80.68.90.193])
| by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JtVGV-00059x-Rb
| for community@lists.openmoko.org; Wed, 07 May 2008 00:04:15 +0200
|
| Copy 2:
| Received: from dashavoo.com ([80.68.90.193])
| by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JtVGV-00059x-Rb
| for community@lists.openmoko.org; Wed, 07 May 2008 00:04:15 +0200
|
| Copy 3:
| Received: from dashavoo.com ([80.68.90.193])
| by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JtVGN-00059m-4G
| for community@lists.openmoko.org; Wed, 07 May 2008 00:04:07 +0200
|
|
| ... so the third copy definitely sent to the mailing list engine a 
second time, like maybe the mailing list engine looped back through 
incoming messages? But I can't see any differences in the first two 
copies of the message at all, nor any differences in the raw message 
(headers, etc) from the two copies I got from Michele via gmail.

|
| It started a maybe two weeks ago with getting second copies, but today 
I'm getting third copies, so wanted to ask what was up. I remember 
seeing posts a while back about duplicate messages, and someone had to 
reset something with the mailing list engine.

|
| Like I said, this is only affecting messages from the OpenMoko 
Community list. My personal Email and other mailing lists I'm on only 
deliver a single copy.

|
| Can someone in charge of the list take a look at it pretty-please?
|
| -id
|
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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interesting development in the world of WiMax

[ian douglas]

I had a colleague send me this URL today and asked whether any future 
Openmoko devices will support WiMax.


http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=690
"Sprint has finalized a groundbreaking deal to spin off its nascent U.S. 
WiMAX network into a joint venture partnership with Clearwire that will 
be funded by Intel, Google, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House 
Networks."


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

[ian douglas]

Robin Paulson wrote:
> steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group 
purchasing?



Hi Robin,

I can't speak directly for Steve and Openmoko, I'm guessing that once we 
get enough people for a bulk order, one of us will need to collect 
payments from everyone else, then place the order with Openmoko as a 
single buyer. Or, if they're feeling lucky/generous, place the order 
first, then hope the other people don't change their minds...


I've never used any escrow service, though PayPal is sort of a pseudo 
escrow service in that you can open a dispute to get your money back if 
you don't get the phone -- of course this leaves the person who paid for 
all 10 phones in a bad position because PayPal will take the money back 
from you and THEN ask for proof that you've indeed sent the phone and 
that it was received.


I imagine there are other online escrow services, but would like to hear 
of recommendations from other users.


Having to ship the phones to an actual escrow service doesn't sound very 
cost effective, by the time you pay an extra shipping charge and escrow 
fees.


Just my $0.02

-id


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Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

[ian douglas]

Assuming that Steve's last timelines are semi-accurate, unless more 
interest is generated by the end of the month, the Los Angeles group 
only has 4 interested parties -- would the other Southern California 
groups be willing to combine if none of us can reach enough orders for 
the 10-pack discount?


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Re: Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

[ian douglas]

I've never shipped anything to Mexico, but I know from experience that 
shipping to Canada can cost extra money with customs, etc., so if that's 
the same with Mexico, you might be better off buying a single unit?


Anyone else know?

Kosa wrote:

Is there any chance I can join your group and ask you
or the one who gets the babies to ship one to me to
the Mexico City?

I have some friends who want to get one, but they
want to see it before buying it, and I think there won't
be a mexican group this time.

Thanks

Kosa

- Un mundo mejor es posible -

ian douglas escribió:
Assuming that Steve's last timelines are semi-accurate, unless more 
interest is generated by the end of the month, the Los Angeles group 
only has 4 interested parties -- would the other Southern California 
groups be willing to combine if none of us can reach enough orders for 
the 10-pack discount?


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Re: Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

[ian douglas]

For something worth that much money, I don't see the point in declaring 
its value as less than the purchase price plus shipping -- if you 
declare it as a $100 phone and it gets broken or lost/stolen, you'd only 
be able to file an insurance claim for the $100 declared value and lose 
the extra $300 that you've spent.


-id


Kosa wrote:

Well yes, I will have to pay 15% of the value of the Freerunner,
but they don't need to know that the real value of the Freerunner
is 400 dollars. You could send it as a very low cost device and I
won't pay that much for taxes. I've done that before.



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Re: A few questions about the games

[ian douglas]

There's another real-world game involving getting a marble through a 
maze without dropping through holes by tilting the maze-board to get the 
marble to the end of the maze.


Sounds like it'd be a good game for accelerometers...

steve wrote:

make  pacman rip off using the acelleromters



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Marble Maze (was: Re: A few questions about the games)

[ian douglas]

Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/none-CAR190-Labyrinth/dp/B0ISLL



Yeah, that's exactly the game I'm thinking of. I imagine implementing 
the physics of it (roll the ball faster the more you tilt) might be a 
bit tricky, but completely possible. We'd also have to allow for skill 
level / gravity level, etc. Could be a lot of fun to build (and play!).


I'll have a look around, see if I can find an existing game -- no sense 
reinventing the wheel when all we're adding to it is accelerometer 
controls instead of buttons etc.


-id

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Re: Marble Maze

[ian douglas]

That's a pretty slick video.

I was thinking more of a top-down view of the wooden board that Joe sent 
the Amazon link for, since the Freerunner won't have the same slick 3D 
graphics that the Wii has ;o)


-id



Arne Kristian Jansen wrote:
Actually, some fellow students made this game using the accelerometer of 
a wiimote. The physics is pretty basic, just som acceleration vectors 
depending on the tilt of the wiimote. As far as I remember they did not 
tilt the board but the camera to get the same effect.

Can be seen in this movie (about 40 sec into the movie):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uHyfPzCe5OE&feature=user 
<http://youtube.com/watch?v=uHyfPzCe5OE&feature=user>



Ak



2008/5/13 ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>:


Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/none-CAR190-Labyrinth/dp/B0ISLL



Yeah, that's exactly the game I'm thinking of. I imagine
implementing the physics of it (roll the ball faster the more you
tilt) might be a bit tricky, but completely possible. We'd also have
to allow for skill level / gravity level, etc. Could be a lot of fun
to build (and play!).

I'll have a look around, see if I can find an existing game -- no
sense reinventing the wheel when all we're adding to it is
accelerometer controls instead of buttons etc.

-id

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Re: Software Status Update

[ian douglas]

Alexander Frøyseth wrote:
> Does this mean that FreeRunner arent shipped this week??

Yes, Steve just reconfirmed a few minutes ago that production doesn't 
even start until about May 16th... plus whatever timeline he previously 
mentioned for any final work to get things verified and packaged and 
shipped to California at which point Steve will open the web store and 
we can all start ordering our phones.


-id




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Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for "average" consumer

[ian douglas]

Ron K. Jeffries wrote:

As an Ubuntu *user* every now and then I get an alert that
upgrades are available.


Likewise with other major distros like Fedora -- you get an alert that 
upgrades are available when you login, or come back from an idle state 
overnight (nightly cron job I imagine).


In the case of the Freerunner though, if updates are available, we 
should give the user the option of upgrading everything automagically, 
without ever prompting them, or letting them manually update.


Not saying this is necessarily the way to go because some other mobile 
OS does this, but my Blackjack 2 running Windows Mobile 6 gives me the 
option of manually looking for updates and manually applying them, or 
just letting the phone do things on its own. Of course, *because* it's 
Windows I don't let it do anything automatically...


But from an "end user" perspective, if we want to reach non-techies (or 
as Ron put it, people with IQ's less than 175), should we even prompt 
for a password when the root user doesn't even *have* a password?


Unless we prompt the user upon first boot-up of the phone to enter a 
security passphrase for things like updates, locking the phone from any 
use, locking the phone for international calls, etc.


Just my $0.02.

-id

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Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for "average" consumer

[ian douglas]

Mo Abrahams wrote:

How about it downloads the updates whenever wifi is available (battery
or not), and then (if set to update automatically) updates once plugged
in to charge, and if set to manual requires battery power to be above a
certain percentage.


I'd say that if GSM downloads are going to be slow, then downloads 
should also occur if the phone is plugged into a PC and network bridging 
is set up -- not everyone will have a wifi router.


Since the updates will require a certain amount of time and battery 
power, the update should only happen once the battery power is above a 
certain level whether plugged in for charging or not.


For example, if the battery was completely drained, and the user plugs 
it into a PC, if the charger can't keep up with the drain of installing 
updates, then updates shouldn't happen just because it's plugged into a 
charger.


Thoughts?

-id

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Re: Value of headsets and pouches for 10 pack orders?

[ian douglas]

If it's included in the bulk order, do you *need* to declare an extra value?

Chris Hogan wrote:
Just wondering if anyone knows how much the bonus pouch/headsets being offered 
with the bulk orders would cost if purchased separately?


The Sydney group are looking into the (huge) customs costs


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Re: Value of headsets and pouches for 10 pack orders?

[ian douglas]

Steve has already mentioned on the list that they don't intend to sell 
pouches or headsets as individual items, and that they're only available 
as part of a bulk order -- included at no extra cost as part of the bulk 
order, which to me means no extra value.


-id


Neil Davey wrote:
It's not so much the declaration.. It's more the fact that the whole 
shipment will be over a certain value (I think $1000?)..



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Re: Value of headsets and pouches for 10 pack orders?

[ian douglas]

Chris Hogan wrote:

True - I hadn't yet read Ian's reply when I wrote that :-).



And I was just reiterating what Steve and Michael have said over the 
past two months -- OpenMoko would rather concentrate on making phones 
than pouches and selling individual accessories like pouches and 
headsets. They've also said how they don't want to sell the microSD 
cards, USB cables, etc., since those are ready to purchase all over the 
world and for them to make any money on it would have to sell them at 
higher prices, so it doesn't make any sense for them to be in the 
'accessories' market.


From an Email from Steve on April 21st:
> Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a
> business around this. Our marketing materials are open source.
> So, you can build your own pouches, use our brand, and make a
> business from accessories.

I've found Steve's Email saying the pouches and headsets were to be 
included in the 10-pack orders, but no indication of "while supplies 
last". Steve -- will the pouches and headsets always be available for 
bulk orders, or is it a "while supplies last" scenario?


-id



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Re: Another little question about Group sales to steve

[ian douglas]

Correct, you'd get the discount on the group of 10, and have to pay full 
price on the extra 9. Might be worth looking for people in neighboring 
countries, etc., to group up?



Alexander Frøyseth wrote:

too bad actually, if we are 19 the is 9 that can't be in the *gruop*



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Re: Standardizing data store across toolkits (SMS, PIM data, playlist, etc)

[ian douglas]

MartinG wrote:

On Friday 16 May 2008 03:26:06 Carsten Haitzler wrote:

yeah. this is actually the bigger problem we face in the longer run.
standardising data stores and access to them etc. :)


I think this is a important point that should be given some thought
before everyone starts hacking. Would it make sense to use opensync
[1] as a middle layer between the frontend app and the backend store
-- with one plugin on each side?



Yeah, there was a big discussion about this a few months ago, talking 
about whether to store data in some generic format or some homemade XML 
format or using some middle layer tool like opensync, and synchronizing 
data to a remote location periodically versus sync'ing only when 
connected to a PC, etc. It was a pretty thorough discussion.


Personally, I like the opensync idea, a platform-independent sync 
engine, that can be ported to the OpenMoko platform.


-id

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Re: Wireless Cracking / Hacking on the FreeRunner

[ian douglas]

Brandon Kruse wrote:
What do you guys think? Definitely taking the freerunner into a 
completely different market, which I think would be pretty cool.


My $0.02 is that it'd be a handy security test, but also hits a bit of a 
gray area where it could be abused too.


Is it based on airsnort or something?

-id

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Re: picking up voicemail

[ian douglas]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not at all.  When I enter a password in my blackberry, it shows the
character for a second, then puts in a *.


The Samsung Blackjack 2 does this too, pretty handy to making sure 
you've typed what you intended.


Lasse Poulsen wrote:

On my old old old Nokia 1610 i remember it was posible to save numbers
with PAUSE and WAIT in them... pause ment to pause sending digit codes
for ~5 sec - and wait would stop sending until send were pressed.


I think the standard pause (represented by a letter 'p' in the string of 
numbers to dial) is only 2 seconds, but you can put as many pauses in as 
you like.


The 'wait' (represented by a 'w' in the dial string, generally was only 
used after the telephone number that basically tells the phone to wait 
until being answered -- that way you didn't have to guess how long to 
wait (how many rings) before a voicemail application would answer.


I seem to recall the 'wait' function on my old Nokia phones would also 
pause until you hit a certain key before continuing, but I don't 
remember which key that was.


-id

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Re: GTA01 battery charge circuit: ID pin?

[ian douglas]

No need to hack a cable when you do do it via software:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script


Major A wrote:

Hi,

I have a GTA01 and want to use it even when I don't carry a computer
with me. I read that the battery charge circuit of the GTA02 will
switch to high current if a 48k resistor is present between the
mini-USB ID pin and ground. Does this also apply to the GTA01, i.e.,
is it worth hacking up a cable for that model?



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Re: My experience with the Freerunner

[ian douglas]

Lasse Poulsen wrote:

Also it would be nice to see how long call time you have if you talk
continually (might i suggest an audio-book or to). If you don't i
properly will (haven't got the device yet!)



Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night:

I fully charged my Freerunner, inserted the TMobile SIM card, and set it 
beside my computer speakers with Amarok looping some of my more rockin' 
tunes. I made sure the only thing left 'on' on the Freerunner was the 
GSM modem (wifi which is on by default, was turned off). I also enabled 
power-saving (dim, no lock -- but it locks anyway)


I called it from my AT&T phone, which I plugged in next to my TV and 
watched two full movies from Netflix and 3 episodes of The Dead Zone.


In that span, where both phones would have audio to play back and forth 
to one another, my AT&T phone beeped after 3 hours, 51 minutes and 11 
seconds that the connection was broken. I immediately redialed the 
Freerunner, and since it was already at about 90 minutes into the second 
call, I went to bed.


I got up this morning to see that my AT&T phone ended the call after 2 
hours, 11 minutes and 21 seconds. I figured this went one of two ways -- 
the Freerunner ran out of battery power, or I ran out of minutes from 
TMobile.


My TMobile SIM card was a 1,000-minute pay-as-you-go SIM, which is about 
16.7 hours of talk time, which I've only ever used for my Freerunner 
tests ... so having only three 3:51:00 phone calls (give or take a few 
minutes) and one 2:11:21 call that I still have plenty of minutes left 
on my SIM card, and sure enough -- the battery on the Freerunner was 
completely dead.


(as a side note, it's nice to see that a deeply discharged Freerunner 
doesn't have the same issue as the GTA01 where you have to charge it for 
an hour before anything shows on the screen)


Since I have TMobile minutes left, I'll finally get around to testing 
the phone from various alternate locations this coming weekend with the 
TMobile SIM, and I'll swap it out for the AT&T SIM if needed.


To recap:
- GSM turned on
- wifi turned off
- bluetooth turned off
- gps turned off
- power saving enabled (dim, no lock)
- total talk time of 6:02:32 with constant audio on both sides of the 
'conversation'


Hope this helps.

More tests to come, stay tuned!

And thanks to those who sent messages (and Steve confirming on the list) 
that my Freerunner is NOT running the ASU stack. I've watched the 
YouTube video of the ASU stack and it's completely different. My bad.


Ian Douglas
(not Ian Darwin)

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Re: My experience with the Freerunner

[ian douglas]

Andy Green wrote:

| Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night:

Just a little point about these tests, AIUI the GPS stuff acts radically
differently in terms of current consumption depending on the distance
from the base station.


I'm assuming you meant "GSM" not "GPS", so as I understand your point, a 
better test would be actually having the Neo move around geographically 
to hop to/from different cell towers, and that a test like this will 
give more realistic battery usage statistics?


In theory, it sounds very reasonable if it will draw varying amount of 
current from the battery. Thanks for the idea.


Given the cost of gasoline these days, though much lower than in Europe, 
I'm not sure spending two tanks of gas to drive around for 4-6 hours to 
achieve more usage stats will be feasible.


I think that knowing a "best case scenario" (where you stay in the same 
location), you get about 6 hours of talk time, is still helpful. Cell 
phone manufacturers typically report a "best case scenario" when 
reporting talk time and standby time, with the legalese and fine print 
stating that "your results may vary" from their data.


Thoughts?

-id

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Re: My experience with the Freerunner

[ian douglas]

Thanks for your thoughts, Marco.


Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:

I agree, and we can't ask you more than testing like you're doing.


As of today I have 165 minutes remaining of my 1,000 minute TMobile SIM 
card, so I'll have to restock it to do any more tests. I think TMobile 
still has their "1000-minutes for $100" special going on, so I'll stock 
up later this evening.


The only thing I'm asking to you, Ian, is to report the GSM signal 
strength in your testing zone, just to complete the informations you've 
already given.


Fair enough. I'll report on that when I get home as my office building 
is probably more shielded than my apartment. I live near the beach, no 
mountains to really speak of, and my AT&T phone, which was always 
showing EDGE connectivity at my old apartment always shows 
full-bandwidth "3G" at the new apartment, which is partly why I wanted 
to do some testing around my old apartment.


Anyway, I'll appreciate so much if another one of the lucky Freerunner 
owners could make a battery test (also just a "standby" one) in a place 
with low GSM coverage...


As soon as my Freerunner is back to full-charge, I'll try to emulate 
Einstein's standby tests with all 4 components (GSM, WiFi, Bluetooth, 
GPS) turned on, then off, and report my own findings. I'll try to do it 
with both SIM cards, if that makes any difference, and without any SIM 
at all -- I'm curious if having no SIM card will emulate "low GSM 
coverage" with the phone trying to constantly register on a network.


Since I have 5,000 evening/weekend minutes with AT&T, once I fill up my 
TMobile card again, I'll take my Freerunner and Blackjack 2 on errands 
this weekend, see if I can spend more than 6 hours connecting the two 
phones again in varying locations around Los Angeles.


If anyone else has suggestions on how to test battery life, I'd love to 
hear them. Especially from Michael and Steve, as they can probably 
direct us a little better on what kinds of real-life scenario testing 
they'd like us to help in.


I'm going to see if I can write a CPU-intensive script to run on the 
Freerunner too, see if I can time how long the battery will last with 
the CPU running 100% ... again, just a curiosity.


-id


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Re: My experience with the Freerunner

[ian douglas]

Bastian Muck wrote:
TMobile still has their "1000-minutes for $100" special going on, so 
I'll stock up later this evening.
Wow, phoning is really expensive at your location. When you do some more 
tests it might be cheaper to make holidays in e.g. germany. I pay 30 € / 
month and can call  T-Mobile and  landline as much as I want to.


If I paid for a monthly voice/data plan with TMobile, I'm sure I'd have 
more minutes to spare. With my AT&T plan, I pay $39.99 and have 450 
daytime minutes and 5000 evening and weekend minutes per month, which is 
more than enough for my wife and I to use.


-id

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Re: Freerunner test

[ian douglas]

Yorick Matthys wrote:
I don't know how to post on the mailing list (shame on me, I know...) 
although i read every mail that gets posted on them, so I write it 
directly to your e-mail address.


If you're subscribed to the mailing list, just address messages to 
community@lists.openmoko.org and everyone will get a copy.


could you also give an indication for how long it takes to get a gps fix 
(cold/warm start) ? Or about the audio quality with a standard headset?
I understand completely if you can't be bothered with these questions, 
if so, please excuse me; it's just I’m so damn anxious to get my hands 
on a  freerunner :-).



I haven't done any audio or GPS tests on my Freerunner yet. Have any of 
the other Freerunner testers done anything in this regard?


If not, I'll try some testing this weekend if I can figure out how to 
get the GPS working.


Ian

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Re: using the openmoko neo101 in mass storage mode

[ian douglas]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> although maybe windows doesn't allow to download files from 
 > media players and may not allow to upload on cameras.

XP SP2 connects my Sony DSC-V3 camera as a camera device, but 
ultimately, at the system level, is treated as a removable storage 
device -- I can copy photos (or other files though I can't view them) 
back onto the camera.

-id

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Re: Cleared to start Mass production

[ian douglas]

... and there was much rejoicing!

steve wrote:
>  The latest update I have from the factory indicates that mass Production (
> that means running the SMT line without stopping to check stuff every two
> seconds) has been CLEARED TO START.


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Re: Cleared to start Mass production

[ian douglas]

Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen wrote:
>   This is roughly the best news since hmm... i'm not entirely sure, since 
> some 
> really good news ;)

(insert political joke about the rumors of Hillary Clinton stepping down 
from the American presidential race on Friday...)

(and before that starts a flame war of any kind: I'm from Canada, but I 
live in the US and hate the 2-party system here)

Still, it's awesome news that the Freerunner is in mass production, w00t!

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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

[ian douglas]

I see the whole 'stylus holder' as a simple manufacturing choice.

Just like we choose the Freerunner based on 850/1800/1900 frequencies or 
900/1800/1900 frequencies, having a choice of "I want a case with a 
stylus holder" or not, could be a simple case choice when ordering.

So design a case with and without a stylus holder, and away you go. You 
don't want it, don't order it. You want it, you'd have the option to 
request it.

Just my $0.02.

-id

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Re: San Diego and LA group sales

[ian douglas]

Russell Dwiggins wrote:
> I'd like to add myself to the LA group.  That MIGHT mean you don't HAVE
> to buy 2 phones Kosa. :)  
> 
> Where are these groups listed, BTW?


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales


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Re: San Diego and LA group sales

[ian douglas]

Russell Dwiggins wrote:
> I'd like to add myself to the LA group.  That MIGHT mean you don't HAVE
> to buy 2 phones Kosa. :)  


Los Angeles group:
I've added Russell to the wiki page, and added my city and Russell's 
city as well. Could the rest of you update the wiki page to list your 
cities as well, please? "Los Angeles" covers a lot of ground, so having 
some idea of where in the LA area we all live will make it easier to 
coordinate.

As we get closer to getting the news from Steve that the phones are 
ready to ship to Fremont CA, we'll need to start coordinating getting 
the money together and placing the order with OpenMoko.

I'm thinking that I can plot our cities on a Google Map and work out a 
'central' place for everyone to meet, then send out a few dates/times 
when people want to meet -- I'll bring the Freerunner that I've been 
testing with so everyone can check it out.

Ian Douglas

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regarding the 'data security' thread recently

[ian douglas]

I see that the 3G iPhone will now have a 'remote wipe' feature similar 
to what we've all been discussing.

Other highlights in a poorly-formatted list:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1839&tag=nl.e589

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

[ian douglas]

Robert Taylor wrote:
> You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year 
> contract minimum.

Granted, the Apple and AT&T partnership greatly subsidizes the cost, 
because of the $960 ($40/mo unlimited data plan for 2 yrs) to $2400 
($100/mo unlimited voice/data for 2 yrs) that you'd spend with AT&T also 
helps cover the hidden cost of the hardware.

And while I personally don't care much for the iPhone, you also have to 
sign up for a voice/data plan to use the Freerunner... You're still 
paying the $960-$2400 over two years, but there's not offset of cost of 
the hardware to the consumer. The monthly fees you pay that doesn't pay 
for the actual use of the cell network is 100% profit to AT&T instead of 
going to Apple to help pay for the hardware.

Same with TMobile, and I imagine any other carrier who offsets the price 
of their phones to lock you into a contract.

Just my $0.02.

What you're paying the extra money for, for the Freerunner, is the 
freedom of doing whatever you want with your phone. Sure, the iPhone has 
their SDK released, but all applications still have to go through Apple 
to operate on your phone -- I don't know if the SDK even allows you to 
build an application just for your own iPhone to test it. Also, their 
mobile OS is closed source -- you have no access to hack or tweak it to 
do *exactly* what you want it to. You can't change the applications that 
come with the phone, you can't do a lot of things. Sure, they have lots 
of eye candy and some solid-looking applications, but once we as a 
community port applications to the Freerunner hardware to run on 
OpenMoko, we'll be leaps and bounds ahead of the iPhone software.

That, to me, is worth the extra purchase price.

-id

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