Re: [Germany] GSM Prepaid offer from Tchibo: user2user calls free for next 24 months

2007-07-27 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Ortwin!

Sorry for my bad english - and missing activitiy on
this list for the examens period...

Ortwin Regel schrieb am Friday, den 27. July 2007 um 15:22h:

 Only Tchibo - Tchibo calls are free, and only for 24 months if you buy
 before 2007-08-09.

Calls to old Tchibo sims and Sims sold after the promotion
periode of 9.8.2007 will be charged with 5 Cent/Minute:

Only Tchibo-promotion-SIM to Tchibo-promotion-SIM is free
for the next 24 month.

 To benefit from this you'd have to get two or more of
 this offer and give one to everyone you phone often.

Yes, but 5 Euro/SIM for such a solution is not much
and developing/testing phone function could be nice
to have two of such SIM cards. ;)

To be absolutly accurate, the SIM is comming with an asset/balance
of 1 Euro, valid for 12 month. I fear using this SIM longer then
12 month will make a rechage with the lowest amount of 10 Euro
necessary.
So this time-limted offer means for a developer:
2x5 = 10  Euro for using Tchibo-promotion-SIM to Tchibo-promotion-SIM
  for 12 month
for month 13-24 you have to invest 2x10 Euro.

 SMS are relatively expensive and I wasn't able to find anything about
 data...

Your are right, SMS are relatively expensive,
my tip was not about the best tariff for all...
Just about the possibility to do free calls from one to the
another...

And finaly, like all flat-rate tariffs, the contract Allgemeine
Geschäftsbedingungen says, that stationary gatways to forward
external calls are not allowed to do:

  4.1 Der Kunde ist verpflichtet
  
  h) die Leistungen von O2 nur zum Aufbau selbstgewählter
  Verbindungen zu nutzen; ihm ist insbesondere nicht gestattet,
  mittels einer SIM-Karte von einem Dritten hergestellte Verbindungen 
  Über Vermittlungs- oder Übertragungssysteme weiterzuleiten oder SIM-Karten
  in stationären Einrichtungen, gleich welcher Art, zu installieren oder
  unter Verwendung von SIM-Karten Telekommunikationsdienstleistungen
  anzubieten oder zu vermitteln.

Ok, no stationary gatway...

BTW this offer shows again that the tariffs have more
and more special profiles - the one it very cheap with
this - the other is very cheap with that - multiple SIM
inside a phone would help to profit from A and B comfortable,
without a second or third phone...

  It's a pity that the Neo doesn't have a second
  SIM card slot (and a second GSM tranceiver) so
  cheap GPRS connections like Medion Mobile 0,24Euro/MB
  needs to change the SIM or a second mobil (maybe
  with Bluetooth, maybe a second neo)

Greetings,
rob


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[Germany] GSM Prepaid offer from Tchibo: user2user calls free for next 24 months

2007-07-27 Thread Robert Michel
Salve,

sorry that this is only a tip for OpenMoko people 
in Germany -  there is a quite interesting
offer since today:

Prepaid SIM for 5 Euro with free calls to other
SIMs (users) of this special sold offer for the
next 24 month. I haven't found a limitation of 
minutes/month.
http://www.tchibo.de
:)

I think there is something like fair-use
so when you/I use this offer less intensive
then some teenies


This offer use the network of O2 and it could
be that this free calls are only valid inside
the O2 network in Germany. If the mobil use
the D1 roaming inside Germany it could be that
this calls are not for free... (I will check this)
and realy cool would it be, when datacalls from
Tchibo-SIM to Tchibo-SIM would be free as well.

The selling this special Prepaid-cards is anounced 
to run until 9.8.2007.

See also:
http://www.teltarif.de/arch/2007/kw30/s26634.html   


BTW: the shops have mobils as well, I had the luck to 
get a Nokia 1112 with Prepaid SIM for 20 Euro.
The battery BL-5CA of this mobil is Neo1973 compatible 
(already tested) and has a charger that could
help when your are going to buy a stand alone 
battery charger from Nokia or third-party vendor.

The FIC GTC-01/GTA-01 battery is setting the
Nokia 1112 into test mode - so this
20 Euro inc Prepaid-SIM offer is not  realy 
likly to work as Second Battery for the neo,
Battery Charger and Prepaid-SIM deal


But the sim itself (with a second sim of this 
offer) would be very interesting to use with
the neo.

It's a pity that the Neo doesn't have a second
SIM card slot (and a second GSM tranceiver) so
cheap GPRS connections like Medion Mobile 0,24Euro/MB
needs to change the SIM or a second mobil (maybe
with Bluetooth, maybe a second neo)

Greetings,
rob


  

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Re: Audio I/O questions

2007-03-28 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Gabriel!

Gabriel Ambuehl schrieb am Mittwoch, den 28. März 2007 um 08:38h:

 On Wednesday 28 March 2007 00:52:20 Robert Michel wrote:
  Ahh.. I can hear it with the Neo1973 headset as well, wenn I pull out
  the headset for 0,7mm - mybe my 2,5 mm 4 pin jack is not accurat enough.

I got the reason - the jacks I bought does haven has a ring with screw
thread (connected with ground) with a diameter of 7.5 mm
(and the 4-pole) pin is inside).

The first jack I soldernd had this ring a little bit more to the outside
- also both jacks I bought does not have accurate 90 degree between pin 
and ring and the ring has 7.5 mm in the diameter - the official headset jack
only 4.5 mm so that could be the reason for pulling out a bit more...

So the second jack works fine.

So comparing with 3.5 mm or 5 mm jacks the tolerances with 2,5 are
quite low and when you buy a jack in a shop IMHO would worth a deep look
about them.

Removing the ring and the 18 mm long GND banner give an adapter like the
one glued into plastic of the 90 degree angel jack of the official
headset. I would not encourage to use an jack without a 90 degree angel
connected to the neo inside of a pocket - this  2.5 cm long adapater
would gave a to much high moment on the jack on the PCB.


 Not strictly what you asked, but working adapter jacks for Moto V360 (which 
 as 
 I understand would work) can be had on Ebay for 20cents plus shipping...

Yes, they also have a angel jack... :)
But they are only for headphones. Selfsolderd adapter will have the
advantage to be able to use the mic in as well ;)


Greetings,
rob

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Audio I/O questions

2007-03-27 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

I'm very happy that the Neo1973 has 
- stero headphone out
- mono mic in (for headset)
this give us much power for having
much fun with the neo. :


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#Analog_wired_Headset
 Analog wired Headset
 There's a four-ring 2.5mm stereo jack which provides connectivity to
 old-fashioned wired headsets.
 The headsets used by Motorola smartphones (A780,A1200, ...) and the
 V-360 have a compatible configuration. 

Na this audio I/O is not only good for a headset,
playing the music from a Neo1973 on the next party
and more would be fun - so an adapter would be usefull
- but how?

I went to the electronic component shop just
around my corner and bought a 2,5 mm 4 pin jack
(Klinkenstecker) and 3 chinch jacks.
testing the headset with a (very cheap) mulitmeter:
1-2 and 1-3 has 33-35 Ohm
1-4 1170 Ohm
shows that I guessed right that the jack is used with:

-+
 |=#=#=#=
-+1 2 3 4

1 GND
2 l audio out (tested this with alsamixer and my adapter)
3 r audio out
4 mono audio in/ mic with bias

(is this correct?)


So 33-35 Ohm is quite low - my headphone has 600 Ohm
and the audio in of my hifi amp 60kOhm. 

  Sorry, I'm no electrical expert but I'm very interested in how 
  we can use the power of Neo1973's audio I/O - so excuse me when this
  mail raise more questions then answers...

AFIK does the resistant number of the connected device matter and
so the Neo1973 output should have different profiles to switch from
- neo1973 headset to
- headphone and line out.
Would does need the support of the hardware or could we change the
driver settings to get a good line output?


I thought my adaper would be fine, *but*...

1 and 2  gaves a very low output of the right channel- even when headphone 
and pcm are on 100% 
1 and 3 gaves a pulsating noise (about every 0,5s) but with the neo1973
headset it sounds fine.
   Hmm, does somebody have an idea? 
Ahh.. I can hear it with the Neo1973 headset as well, wenn I pull out
the headset for 0,7mm - mybe my 2,5 mm 4 pin jack is not accurat enough.

Does anybody else start to play to use the neo1973 audio for more
then the official equipement?

My plan was to have a good adapter to linie in of my usb audio device
egosys U2A and do some recorings of the neo1973's audio I/O (and to 
share this recordings) and to solder an adaper to normal headphones.

Greetings,
rob


PS: My V3 has also some noice on the left channel in depandances
of the screen - alsamixer on the screen with much black gives
other noise than the shell..
ogg123 playback is bucking (ruckelt)





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Master Studies in Embedded systems starts in Pforzheim/Germany

2007-03-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

Seems that this master courses are not given in
English:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87322
http://es.hs-pforzheim.de/menue/frame_ma_es.htm  

Is here someone on the list with good contacts
to the hs-pforzheim?
Do you have ideas how to make OpenMoko populare
there?

rob

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I know why I dislike anonymous participants on mailinglists :((

2007-03-14 Thread Robert Michel
Mike (or better everybody new to this project/list)!

I'm in favor to welcome everybody on this list,
to respect him and to help that his interest,
effort and skills will be supported and answered
that it is most efficent for him and the community.

But as hard as I try to stay patient and friendly,
I can't -  I can see you only destructive here on
this list - please leave this list and go shopping.

So my mail is not motivated on two reasons
1. to please you to stop
2. and to replay in a way that new people comming to 
   this project because of Seans call will not be
   put off because of your unspeakable noise here
   nor because of our reaction. But I think that Sean
   has found the right answer
   So when you are new to this project/list don't spend
   to much (or any) attention to the demands from 
   anonymous Mike.


On Tue, 13 Mar 2007, Mike wrote:
 Johnathon let me phrase it like this-
 
 I love the help of the open source community, I'm a part of it myself. 

Which open source community? Are you only consuming help
from communities?

When you would be a developer, part of another open source community,
why does you need to write anonoumous with a new mailaccount?

 But when it comes to whether or not I spend $350 plus an 
 officially-unknown monthly price, and likely with a two year contract, 
 then yea, I want big official advice with a golden seal of approval on a 
 silver platter with a company logo in a spotlight and smiling showgirls 
 on either side.

Sorry, I can't take you serious - please stop writing
anonymous here on this mailinglist (or better stop write
on this mailinglist in general) and do not continous to
kill an important threads with your %§)§

- who is paying you for creating silly noise on this list?

Who is saying that you need a two year contract for phoning?

I *would* have advices like:
http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/usa.html
http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/international.html
So for just 10US$ you could get an GSM SIMcard with 6US$
account for dialing - vallid for 15 days to test any GSM 
device in this area for voice calls:
http://beyondwirelessgsm.com/coverage_map.php?
(Do not think that his coverage is eaqual to GSM in USA
general, nor that this orange coverage could not have
areas without working network inbetween)

Have you ever thought about to ask somebody of your town
about GSM coverage and experiances in your region befor you
bother us on this list? h?

Have you ever thought to borrow a GSM device from somebody,
or buying a cheap (used) GSM device and spend 10US$ to test
the coverage of your town, of your room before spending
more money - or singing a two year contract (that very likly
is not needed)?

But you do *not* worth any help - you are help--resistant
Please go to the next phone shop with smiling showgirls 
(they are smiling because knowing that they could sell 
persons like you everything... ) 
and stop flooding this important mail thread about Wifi chips
and call for GUI developers...

Better leave this list, now!

Thank you!

rob



PS: Ahh, and when your aim is to sabotage openmoko (or someone
would try it in your style) your noise will not stopp anybody
here who is seriously active on/with openmoko - no it will/would
strengthen the community.
But who like to strengthen our community don't do it in the
style of Mike - there are more efficent ways to do this ;)

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Re: Creating a SIP client for the OpenMoko

2007-03-12 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Chuck!

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Chuck Pareto wrote:

 I was thinking about getting a Sip phone to use with the Gizmo Voip service
 (my friend is using it and loves it), but then thought about creating a
 Sip/Voip client to run on the OpenMoko. Does anyone know if this would be
 possible? 

Of course should be possible... and I expect that someone
will port an existing sip client to OpenMoko and that such
a client will get an integration into the dailer menue
But this work is hardware independent it could be done at
a later point or just by someone using the emulator¹...

Which Network connection you thought to use for Sip/Voip?
- GPRS to much delays/still to expensive
- Wlan - you still need a battery powerd hub and a USB Wifi
  adapter
- usb cable - also not handy
- bluetooth! ;)

For your home there is IMHO a more smart solution with Bluetooth:
  Asterisk Channel Driver to allow Bluetooth Cell/Mobile Phones 
  to be usedas FXO devices. Wed Feb 14 15:49:56 CET 2007
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003364.html
With asteriks you could manage your incomming calls not only when you
are at home (forwarding to your Neo1973), but also when you are not
able to use Voip directly - switching between
- forward to GSM (you are paying)
- answering machine
- not reachable/rejecting
Using Voip on the Neo with asterisk on a 24/24h maschine allows
another trick - you do not need to have Bluetooth 24/24h on for
getting incomming calls - asterisk could ring you via GSM from
a special account - the caller ID used of your asterik will make
your Neo1973 switching Bleutooth on ;)


When it is not only about doing cheap calls, Paul Wouters is working
on doing encrypted calls via Jabberclient - the calls will be made
via GSM data calls.

What have been your ideas about using Sip/Voip with the Neo1973?

Greetings,
rob



¹http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Is_there_an_emulator_available_for_OpenMoko.3F

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Asterisk Channel Driver to allow Bluetooth Cell/Mobile Phones to be used as FXO devices.

2007-02-14 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

A good friend of mine told me that there is a new
patch out for asterisk to use a mobile with Bluetooth
for *inbound* calls ;))) 

chan_cellphone-- Use Bluetooth cell / mobile phones as FXO devices

see: http://bugs.digium.com/view.php?id=8919 
--snipp--
 Asterisk Channel Driver to allow Bluetooth Cell/Mobile Phones to be
 used as FXO devices.

 Multiple cell phones can be connected. Asterisk automatically connects 
 to each cell phone when it comes in range.
 Command to discover bluetooth devices. Useful for configuration Inbound 
 calls to the cell phones are handled by Asterisk, just like inbound 
 calls on a Zap channel.
 CLI passed through on inbound calls. Dial outbound on a cell phone 
 using Dial(CELL/device/nnn) in the dialplan.
 Application CellStatus can be used in the dialplan to see if a cell
 phone is connected. Supports devicestate for dialplan hinting.
--snapp--

The mobil must support the Bluetooth Handsfree Profile
http://www.bluetooth.com/NR/rdonlyres/94EAD32B-3E70-4AEC-9CD5-1E3F887A15F4/917/HFPSpecVersion1_0.pdf
 
As far as I saw on this webpage, yet supported/positiv tested
 phones are:

Nokia Series 40 phones
Nokia 6230i
LG TU500 CU500
RIM Blackberry 7250
Sony Ericsson 'T''K''V' Series phones
VK2020
Motorola L6 
Motorola V3 

For more info, read the bugtrackpage about this patch:
http://bugs.digium.com/view.php?id=8919
and the cellphone.txt
http://bugs.digium.com/file_download.php?file_id=12910type=bug 


This patch is about inbound calls, IMHO a good starting point
for integrate outbound calls via Bluetooth into OpenMoko. 
I expect when routing calls over an asterisk server, that
even hand over from GSM to Bluetooth and Bluetooth to GSM 
will be possible :))

Greetings,
rob





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also people.openmoko.org Re: Wiki is open

2007-02-14 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Tomasz,*!

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007, Tomasz Zielinski wrote:

 It looks like http://wiki.openmoko.org is open to public :-)
GREAT stuff there :

Also under people.openmoko.org - I asked Mickey and all
pictures and documents there are also for the public :))
like:
http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/GTA01v3_back_highres.jpg
http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01-sd-simcard/1024_img_5095.jpg
http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01-sd-simcard/1024_img_5100.jpg
(sorry I was in a hurry much more there what I haven't seen)

:) what a great device :)

What a pitty that it haven't be anounced at the 3GSM,
but with a active community activity and feedback 
the public will notice it, at last the ICT people ;)
And the technical details on the openmoko.org webserver
is absolutly great stuff!

Cheers!
rob


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And please use a emailclients with working Reference Re: gmail users CC'ing

2007-02-13 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Richard, *!

I full agree with you! But dubbel mails from gmail is IMHO
not the worst - it is starting new threads with every answer
be not using working Referneces or In-Replay-To

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Richard Bennett wrote:

 Hi,
 Why so many people who believe in the ideals put forward by the Neo/Openmoko 
 project are happy to use Gmail astounds me... 

tzz, locking forward to have more ICT freedom with OpenMoko/Neo1973
but wasting personal freedom and privatcy by using the datacollecting 
monster google

A nyway, aside from that minirant, is it possible when sending mail from
 Gmail  to not CC loads of people in the meantime? 

The gmailers here on the list are also _rowdily_ by not using an
emailclient with supporting working References :((
Maybe they are so ICT unskilled that they do not know that good
emailcinets support threading for efficient and civilised communication.

So either someone of the gmail guys explains the other gmail ICT-noobs
how to use an emailclient for a civilised participtation on a
mailinglist, or I will gooing filter all mails comming from gmail.com.
(Gmail users seems to become what AOL users has been known for)

Nice hints like:
S: Small hint:
Your Email hasn't a working References: or In-Reply-To:
in its header, so no email client could put it into the
right thread. Please check if you can answer with
Referneces.

Seems not to be understood or respected.

Sorry for my hard words,*
but as we known there are over 800 people on the list and a mailinglist 
without respecting References in the emailheader will making an 
unneccessary mess in our inboxes, but also on the webarchives.


So when you are using gmail and you know how to use gmail
civilised on a mailinglist, please explain other gmailers
how to do so

Which gmail user can help?

Thank you :))
rob



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Sorry... Re: And please use a emailclients with working Reference Re: gmail users CC'ing

2007-02-13 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

Excuse me, I myself was writing once here on this list
about respect and to give everybody a warm welcome.

The best solution for mailinglist formal things would
be personal mails with explaination...

Robert Michel schrieb am Dienstag, den 13. Februar 2007 um 13:57h:
 The gmailers here on the list are also _rowdily_ by not using an
 emailclient with supporting working References :((

I don't mean every gmail user - I just wanted to express
that using gmail could become or already is a negative 
business cardm personal reference like using hotmail 
or aol mailaccount.
I know that there are good reasons to use a separate 
freemailer account for a mailinglist, especialy when
you don't have a own mailserver...

My comment was a little to fast written, 
my intention was to motivate others - maybe
you, with the knowledge how to use gmail in
a good way to explainig it to people here on
this list doesn't having this knowledge or
caring about threads.

Hope this apology helps to motivate people to let this
mailinglist running with respect, but also with 
efficiency due working threads.

So how can write a short explaination for 
gmail users in the wiki?

Greetings,
rob




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Re: Sorry... Re: And please use a emailclients with working Reference Re: gmail users CC'ing

2007-02-13 Thread Robert Michel
Salve hank!

Thank you for your feedback ;)

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, hank williams wrote:

 You are misinformed if you believe that gmail does not handle threads
 properly. 
Maybe, it would be nice when other gmail users
explain gmail users how to use gmail proper,
instead  of that I have to inform myself about 
gmail.

 In fact I think it is the best product on the market, free
 or otherwise, for handling threads. The  problem which you are
 referring to has nothing to do with gmail, but with the fact that some
 people mistakenly delete the re: from the mail header when
 responding.

This is only a backup for threading mails - threading by subjects.
The better way is threading with working References in the header.

Q: Is gmail killing this reference line in the header when the Subject
does not begin with re:? Realy? Can you test this?

BTW, it seems that e.g. Ryan is using Apple Mail as MUA.
(Mail user agent = email client)
AFAIK Apple mail can set References in the header.

So the question stil is, what make the References missing
for Ryan by using gmail.

Greetings,
rob

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Great ;) Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

2007-02-12 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Harald!

Harald Welte schrieb am Sonntag, den 11. Februar 2007 um 22:21h:
 On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 04:05:03PM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote:
  Any news on this? I'm not holding by breath for 4GB, but has 2GB been 
  confirmed?
 
 Sandisk 2GB SDSDQU-2048-E10M works just fine.

Thank you for this good news :)


I don't want be unfair by talking about more memory,
I'm just intersted in the spezification of the Neo1973
- knowing about limitation of v1 does not mean that it
limited the real big step OpenMoko/Neo1973 as first
free GSM phone will bring into the live - it doesn't
matter if we can use 2 or 4 GB cards - even with 
1 GB cards or even without memory cards, 
OpenMoko/Neo1973 has high potential to do things
- with more security
- more privatcy
- better
- more fun...

But BTW memory cards, SanDisk anounced today in Barcelona the first 4 GB 
microSDHC:
   [...]
   SanDisk is now sampling the new 4GB microSDHC card to OEMs such as
   major phone manufacturers and mobile network operators (MNOs).
   Engineering samples are now available for evaluation, as mobile phone
   makers will need to upgrade the firmware in their handsets so that
   memory slots can support the new card.
   SDHC is the new designation for any SD(TM) or SD-based card that is
   larger than 2GB and adheres to the new SD 2.00 specification that is
   required for cards and hosts to support 4GB to 32GB capacities. The
   specification was developed by the SD Association, an industry
   standards board, which also defined three speed classes for speed and
   performance capabilities. These cards adhere to the SD Speed Class 2
   Rating specification which defines a minimum sustained transfer speed
   for SDHC cards.
   Retail release of the card is planned for later in 2007. OEM pricing
   has not been determined yet.
   [...]
http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=3711
 


So microSD cards with 4GB or more are based on SDHC,
and the SD standards are not so open that writing 
drivers would be possible to everybody - right?
Wasn't it your meritoriousness, Harald, that the
SD driver from TomTom becomes public?

To avoid speculations and hopes, is it clear today,
that  phase-1-Neo1973s/phase-2-Neo1973s will have a
limited of microSD cards to 2GB? Or not?
Is it realy a firmware/driver only task, so that
phase-1-Neos could be upgraded to use SDHC later?


Best wishes!
rob




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You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges

2007-02-12 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Ryan!

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Ryan Kline wrote:

 So I propose that all members of the Open Moko mailing lists may  
 have a
 priority on purchassing a phone for testing/troubleshooting (of  
 course) if
 theire is some devices left after develpppers. :):):)
 
 I'll drink to that (when i'm 21). 

You will wait 8 years to do this? 
No I don't want to push you to drink alcohol in early years 
- I just want to  relativise some statements like in the 
FOSDEM threat, the Friday Beer Event and statments like 
I'll buy you a beer...
For community is drinking the same thing not so important,
or when a community is based only on this - this community
does worth nothing...

So when we have talked about spending drinks each other,
because we are looking forward to meet Sean, the other developer
and each other... and you have someday the chance to meet someone
of us active with OpenMoko - don't doubt that would include
non alcoholic drinks as well - so don't wait 8 years to
drink to that ;)

So 10 Ideas from a Non-Developer was your first mail on 
this list, right? ;)
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001210.html   
Then is your first ideas
 1. (sort of like boost mobile but,) Locate your buddies using GPS on  

   a map system. Possibly non-neo phones too... 

IMHO a remakable one, because it include the wish with a good 
interaction of OpenMoko/Neo1973 with non OpenMoko devices 
- I share the importances that OpenMoko will make communications/
interaction also with non OpenMoko users more easy and that some
cool ideas could impress non-OpenMoko users and motivate/convice
them to choose OpenMoko/Neo1973 themself - because OpeMoko2OpenMoko
communication will be even more powerfull with much more possibilities.

Getting ideas and feedback from you about the zeitgeist¹ of kids
of your age will be interesting and helpfull for all of us
- very nice that you become active on this list ;)

Cheers²,
rob




¹zeitgeist, a word that came from German into English:
 spirit of the age

² of course non alcoholic ;)

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Re: You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges

2007-02-12 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Ryan!

Ryan Kline schrieb am Montag, den 12. Februar 2007 um 14:54h:

 Actually, I will wait.
This is fine. ;)

But I fear, you got me wrong. 

 I think I will wait. I do  
 understand that this community drinks, but I do not feel pressured to  
 do the same.

 and [when] you have someday the chance to meet someone
 of us active with OpenMoko - don't doubt that would include
 non alcoholic drinks as well - so don't [have to] wait 8 years to
 drink to that ;)

So even when we are writing about drinking on a meeting or just
virtual together e.g. when the first phones are out - you don't
have to wait to salute/drink to that for 8 years - just chooce
some non-alcoholic drink and join.

 I also am very good with videography and would lend my services to  
 OpenMoko if they would pay for my plane ticket :-)

I hope Seans small presentation at the FOSDEM will be recorded
by the FOSDEM people - good point - I should ask them, I could
help them... think you was a bit kidding with the plane ticket,
right? But I'm shure there are more ways that you could bring
in your skills and ideas.
 
 I even tried to get a discount for being the youngest on the forum.  
 (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/ 
 003155.html) I guess that didn't work very well.

But your answer about the mailinglist statistic was cool :)

You have read that Sean and the others of his team are *very* 
busy at the moment, so when the biggest problems solved and it
is clear, when the phase-1 can start it will be a better moment
trying to ask for discount for being a schoolboy or student
or asking about upgrade (price reduction) for buying 
neo1973-version2-phase1 in 2008 after already buying 
neo1973-version1-phase1 this year.
;)

Greetings,
rob





PS: Small hint: 
Your Email hasn't a working References: or In-Reply-To:
in its header, so no email client could put it into the
right thread. Please check if you can answer with 
Referneces.

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[3GSM] Feb 6, 2007: Funambol Shows Open Source Push Email, Contacts and Calendars for Everyone at 3GSM World Congress.

2007-02-06 Thread Robert Michel
Source:
http://www.funambol.com/press/Funambol_3GSM07_release.pdf
:)

--snipp--
Funambol Shows Open Source Push Email, Contacts and Calendars for
Everyone at 3GSM World Congress
Funambol demos mobile email portal for consumers, open source Java
client for mass market devices and OpenMoko platform

REDWOOD CITY, Calif., February 6, 2007 ­ Funambol, the mobile open
source software company, today announced it will preview its new mobile
email portal for consumers at 3GSM World Congress in Barcelona, February
12 ­ 15, 2007. The company will also show the world's first open source
Java mobile email client for mass market phones and how its software
powers the email, contacts and calendars for the popular OpenMoko mobile
Linux platform. Funambol is the leading provider of open source push
email, contacts and calendars, and has been downloaded more than
1,000,000 times, tripling the size of its user and developer network
since 3GSM World Congress a year ago. The market for consumer mobile
email exceeds today's enterprise mobile email market and remains largely
untapped, said Fabrizio Capobianco, CEO of Funambol. Funambol gives
carriers the essential ingredient for unleashing this revenue potential
­ open source software. Funambol mobile open source software is
supported by 10,000 developers in 200 countries around the globe,
delivering unprecedented device compatibility at unprecedented cost.
Visitors to Funambol booth #1J46 will see the following demonstrations:
Sneak Preview: Mobile Email Consumer Portal based on Open Source
Platform The Funambol portal has been completely revamped as it takes
advantage of the new Funambol v3 open source mobile app server. The
portal makes it easy for users to setup their mobile phones for email
and to manage their mobile email, contacts and calendar info. It
automates Over-The-Air (OTA) configuration of mobile devices. To set up
a device for email, a user just enters their mobile number into the
portal. The portal sends an SMS message to the phone which the user
accepts to configure it. World's First Open Source Java Mobile Email
Client for Mass Market Phones For the first time, Funambol will be
demonstrating its J2ME client for delivering open source mobile email,
contacts and calendars on the world's most ubiquitous application
platform for mobile devices.

OpenMoko Communications Platform for Mobile Phones Since its November
introduction as the world's first fully open Linux-based software stack
for mobile phones, OpenMoko has received industry and community acclaim
as the open alternative to the iPhone. Funambol allows OpenMoko-based
phones to wirelessly synchronize mobile applications and content,
including PIM, push email, photos, video, ringtones, music and more.

About Funambol 
Funambol is the mobile open source company and is the
leading provider of open source push email and PIM for consumers.
Funambol is supported by a global network of users and developers
representing more than 1,000,000 downloads and 10,000 contributors in
more than 200 countries. The commercial version of Funambol's software
has been deployed at wireless carriers, Fortune 100 enterprises,
hardware OEMs/ODMs and ISVs including customers such as Computer
Associates. Funambol is headquartered in Redwood City, California with a
development center in Italy. See www.funambol.com. ### Media Contacts
Jennifer Cloer Page One PR 503.547.9451 [EMAIL PROTECTED] David
Rizk Page One PR 415.321.2345 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Thoughts about Bluetooth equipement - does somebody knows a Bluetooth camera?

2007-02-04 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

Some thoughts about Bluetooth equipment:
-Keyboard
-Mouse
-Headset
-Carkit
-PC/Laptop/Router with Bluetooth
-printer
-soundgateway(?)
-embedded devices with Bluetooth
-other bluetooth mobiles to do converence calls or when the Neo1973 v1
 hasn't GPRS class A - to use GRPS while phoning *g*

So what more? Are there digital cameras with Bluetooth on the market?
Does some of them allows to send pictures directly via Bluetooth when
pressing the release? Any inexpensive one there?


Which devices did you also know with bluetooth?
- barcode scanner?
- sensor like thermomether
- medical sensor systems, e.g. for live controling of the heartbeat.

Link ideas for our wiki?

http://tuxmobil.org/bluetooth_linux.html  
http://tuxmobil.org/bluetooth_cell_apps.html 

Greetings,
rob

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Re: Thoughts about Bluetooth equipement - does somebody knows a Bluetooth camera?

2007-02-04 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

It seems that 
http://www.bluetooth.com/
has a good overview - we could pick devices from their when they
are supported with Linux.
Somethink like linux-usb.org would be nice.



Robert Michel schrieb am Sonntag, den 04. Februar 2007 um 15:34h:
 So what more? Are there digital cameras with Bluetooth on the market?
 Does some of them allows to send pictures directly via Bluetooth when
 pressing the release? Any inexpensive one there?

To be more focused/precice - do you know personal a camera like that?
What's your experiances with it?

Greetings, from a sunny Aachen,
rob


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enviroment friendly development for v2?

2007-02-04 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

I don't know how much enviroment friendly development
was criteria for the v1 - but this point would be nice
to consider - at last for v2:
 http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/toxics/electronics/copy-of-how-the-companies-line

OpenMoko will enable the user to use the phone much longer
and to add the software that he wants/needs instead of the
need to buy a new phone because of a new protocoll e.g. Wap.
This is already a big step for beeing an environment friendly
product.

Don't get me wrong, I don't ask for making all better from the
beginning - but on the longterm, it would be nice to promote
OpenMoko/Neo1973 also with ecological criterias.

Like: Beeing greener then the Greenphone ;)

Supporting small companies to repair e.g. display demanges 
with different display types and a non-propritary battery 
format would help that the live-time of a Neo would be 
longer than the 12-24 month crap with included engineered 
end of live shortly after warannty.

No keyboard is a good design to be able to use it for
a longer time :)

So avoiding using high toxical chemicals for the production
it the one aspect - having a lower resources consumption
with a longer livetime another.


Green greetings,
rob

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Airplain mode Re: Cellular usage

2007-02-04 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Kyle!

Wellcome to the openmoko community mailinglist ;)

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007, Kyle wrote:

 I hope I am posting this properly. I was thinking about my infrequent
 airline trips and their dislike of cell phones. Is there any possibility
 to turn off the transmitter in software?

Yes the hardware will allows to turn off the GSM transmitter.
Inside the Neo1973 will be a GSM chip from TI. The System on a chip
(SoC) will communicate with this chip with at commands via a serial 
connection. One of this at commands (you maybe knows them from using
modems) will switch off and on the GSM transmitter.

To find more about airplain mode discussion we already had on this
list use our listarchive and/or google airpain mode site:openmoko.org
http://www.google.de/search?q=airplain+mode+site%3Aopenmoko.org

One of our ideas was to use GPS to switch the device on again
- or to remind the user to do so.

So your welcome to share your ideas, wishes and questions here
- maybe you will find some inspiring ideas in our list archive:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/

Last official announcement from the teamleader Sean Moss-Pultz:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/
-
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/00.html


Hope my mail helps you, Greetings
rob
(just a student, active on this list)

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Re: enviroment friendly development for v2?

2007-02-04 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Tomasz!

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007, Tomasz Zielinski wrote:

 2007/2/4, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 Don't get me wrong, I don't ask for making all better from the
 beginning - but on the longterm, it would be nice to promote
 OpenMoko/Neo1973 also with ecological criterias.
 
 Average OpenMoko user takes a bath once a week. iPhone user takes a
 shower twice a day! Buy Neo1974, save the Earth!  :-]

Wow what a seriously answer. It seems that you haven'd used
the link:
 http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/toxics/electronics/copy-of-how-the-companies-line
   

Ok, when you are only interested in competing with iPhone 
- greenpeace is helping to seperate from Apple:
 http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/greener-electronics-apple-rank-2.pdf

 No keyboard is a good design to be able to use it for
 a longer time :)
 
 You can still use phones made in 60's, are you sure touchscreen will
 survive 40 years too? ;-)

First I was comparing mobil phones, second, because the touchscreen
has no mechanical parts, I think it is possible to produce this
touchscreen in a way, that  80% are usable in 40 years.

And making the case strong enough to be able to use the mobile
outdoor and in the rain would help using the touchscreen in 40
years as well.

But you are not seriously it makes a big differance if the
devices are usable due crap keys or no softwareupgrade posibilities
for 2 years, or if the Neo1973 will be used for 10 years.


I was not kidding with a ecologicaly view on mobil phones, we can bring
OpenMoko and the Neo1973 into seriously science - influence of
OpenSoftware to reduce hardware cycles - it is absolutly unsmart to
produce devices only for 1-2 year use.


And your kidding replay let me thing that with OpenMoko it would be
possibe to go one stepp further - recycling of old smartphones
1. refurbishment and selling them with OpenMoko
2. desodering ICs and recycling of SoCs, GSM ICs, displays and
condensors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum


I don't think there is any other consumer electronic device that is
generally replaced every 12 months.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6174422.stm

Visit Nokia Sustainable products:
http://www.nokia.com/A4197011

And I think it is possible to find studies about the ecological
footprint of mobil devices like:
http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/108819806775545330

See:
http://howgeen.blogspot.com/2006/12/mobile-phone-one-more-enemy-for-earth.html
In our mind, the mobile phone's not associated yet with the
environmental, social or economic problems that it leads to. However,
some figures are scary: nearly 30 kg of raw materials are necessary to
manufacturate a device of about 100 grams! And in the world, one
estimates that a billion devices are living!
[...]

http://www.wwf.be/fr/index.cfm?group=newsmenu=factsheets.cfmpage=factsheets/campaign/gsm-environment.cfm

PC 764m^2  mobil phone 32m^2
http://www.weeeman.org/html/impact/footprint.html

BTW the ieee has an IEEE 802.3 Energy Efficient Ethernet Study Group:
http://www.ieee802.org/3/eee_study/


The more I think about ecolgical points with OpenMoko/Neo1973 as more I
think it could be a good promoting argument.

1. OpenMoko/Neo1973 give the user the freedom to update and install new
   software - independent from the hardware producer or network
   provider. This gives a perspective to use the Neo1973 longer then
   any other smartphone with a fast changing market - mostly protocolls

2. The ecological footprint of a smart phone is much smaller than that
   of a PC or laptop - giving full Linux power to the Neo1973 it will
   reduce the need for a PC/Laptop

That could be combined with avoiding toxical chemicals during producing,
posibilities to repair devices and recycling ideas


So I would not talk about to aim a livetime of 40 years, but 
what about sinicicant longer livetime (5-10 years) than normal smart phones?


Green greetings,
rob















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Re: enviroment friendly development for v2?

2007-02-04 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Joe!

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

 Robert Michel writes:
  
  You can still use phones made in 60's, are you sure touchscreen will
  survive 40 years too? ;-)
 
 First I was comparing mobil phones, second, because the touchscreen
 has no mechanical parts, I think it is possible to produce this
 touchscreen in a way, that  80% are usable in 40 years.
 
 Resistive touchscreens do have the eqivalent of a mechanical part:
You are right about resistive touchscreens, but
will the Neo not have an optical touchscreen?
Or is the v1/v2 without multitouch?

Greetings
rob

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Re: enviroment friendly development for v2?

2007-02-04 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Oleg!

Oleg L. Sverdlov schrieb am Sonntag, den 04. Februar 2007 um 23:36h:

 All this is good.
 a) how the company (FIC) is supposed to make a profit by manufacturing 
 less phones?

Who is saying that FIC should produce less phones ;)

When FIC is producing phones which are usable 2-5 longer than
the other phones on the market, than this is a good argument
to choce a phone from FIC. Don't forget that FIC steps new
into a quite closed market.

 b) let's say my phone will last 10 years . How can I be sure that my 
 cellular provider will use the same technology for many years (with only 
 software upgrades required)?

You cant upgrade to UMTS, but for phoning with GSM it should be 
good enough. When the GSM chip would be on a small module, even
network technologie would be upgradable.

 There are companies that create sell refurbished phones to 3rd world 
 countries for cheap, so the situation is not grim enough.

AFAIK less then 2% of the mobils are going to recycled.


My 12 years old hp48 calculator is still very usefull, so
I don't find any reason (from the consumer view)  why a live 
cycle of a smartphone couldn't be 10 years as well.

Not the hardware was the limiting factor on the phones of the
last years - the software was it. 

Greetings,
rob

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Re: AT commands (Re: But wich GSM chip? Re: AT commands document (Was: Fax modem? Fax software? Neo as T.38 gateway?))

2007-02-03 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Harald!

Harald Welte schrieb am Samstag, den 03. Februar 2007 um 14:49h:
  I put the list into the wiki - it would be fine to mark
  out which are not the optional ones and how to use them.
  So from this list, every contribution, commentation of
  this commands are welcome.
 
 For everything but the few TI-proprietary ones, all this is in the GSM
 standard.  I don't think it's worth replicating that inforation.

For the standard we can takeover this informations
http://wiki.openezx.org/AT_commands

Not now - in some weeks a list and information about the TI-proprietary
ones would be fine.


 If the community learns something about the TI-proprietary commands,
 that's certainly a different thing.

  E.g. the network quality - nearly non of us would run around 
  (daily) with mobil/laptop/GPS device to monitor the networkquality,
  but with the Neo1973 it could be an interesting thing.
 
 network quality is sent as event from GSM Modem to our gsmd, from where
 any process can get it over a unix domain socket.

Yes, and the community could collect some first step examples to
make starting the first step using the freedom on the Neo more easy :)

Greetings,
rob

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What would be a realistic but challenging level for Bryce announced trophy money for video playback on the Neo1973? Re: h.264 format is now open?

2007-02-02 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Bryce,*!

Some video information given by Sean in november:
http://www.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000340.html

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007, Bryce Leo wrote:

 Yeah, for management.  Actual Video decoding is done by a dedicated
 chip, Broadcom BCM2722.
 
 Good find. I guess i should have just checked wikipedia instead of
 googling would have gotten me much better information.
 
 I will however still bet $50 (first taker actually gets payout) that
 there will be a way to play  video on the phone. 

I think your $50 has to go to somebody of the core developer team:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] play robs-video.wav ; display robs-video-animated.gif

;)

Which resolution and frames/s should have the video to win your prize?
In some way a low resolution should run quite soon - for full or have
resultion could external hardware help, or a much memory eating 
pre-decryption...

So let us find a realistic but challenging level for your trophy money?

I thought about to join with a more symbolic amount of 10 Euro (I'm just 
a student) but then I thought when 100 people would join and the trophy
money is a big prize, maybe the competion would disturb people of
charing their first success/ideas...
What do you think? Would it better instead of joining the
Bryce-video-prize when everybody is looking for an own (symbolic) prize?

And what about a deadline to reach it? March 11th + 3 month = June 11h?
Who is geeing all the unreached prizes? The Core developer team?

Greetings,
rob






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Re: Voice over GPRS?

2007-02-02 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Terrence,*!

Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile  Embedded schrieb am Freitag, den 02. 
Februar 2007 um 17:52h:

 VoIP calls typically require approx. 120 kbit/s *each*
 direction, that's 240 kbit/s for a two-way conversation.

http://www.asteriskguru.com/tools/bandwidth_calculator.php
[*] speex   
[*] iax2

Incoming Bandwidth
Calls: 1
RTP: 4.69 Kbps  
UDP: 3.13 Kbps  
IP: 7.81 Kibps  
Protocol: IAX2 REGULAR 
Audio Codec: 2 Kbps 
*IAX2 REGULAR is not using RTP or RTCP!

Outgoing Bandwidth
Calls: 1
RTP: 4.69 Kbps  
UDP: 3.13 Kbps  
IP: 7.81 Kibps  
Protocol: IAX2 REGULAR 
Audio Codec: 2 Kbps 
*IAX2 REGULAR is not using RTP or RTCP!

Incoming bandwidth: 14.5 Kbps
0.01 Mbps
1.81 KBps
0 MBps  

Outgoing bandwidth: 14.5 Kibps
0.01 Mbps
1.81 KBps
0 MBps
Total bandwidth (incoming and outgoing): 29 Kbps
0.03 Mbps
3.63 KBps
0 MBps

29Kbps = 3.625 kByte/s


VoIP over cellular is just not feasible at this point.

I was not speaking about VoIP, I was talking about
asyncron voice services like the buzzthingy
Push to talk - but I do not whant to push - 
Talk to talk would be more smart - no need to 
press a button.

Without syncron communication the overhead would be
lower

 On 2/2/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Salve!
 
 Does anybody has experiances/ideas about Voice over GPRS?
 How long is the delay? It could maybe used for asyncron
 voice communication Talk2Talk (instead of pushing a button)
 
 In Germany did three Prepaid Provider published new Tariffs
 with 0.24Euro/MB.
 German pages:
 http://teltarif.de/arch/2007/kw05/s24754.html
 data cost calculator:
 http://teltarif.de/mobilfunk/datenrechner.html
 
 I think with this tariffs using mobil data becomes
 interesting ;)
 
 By using 1KB/s for audio and some overhead, let
 us say 2 KB/s 0.24Euro/MB = 24 Cent for 500 seconds,
 60 seconds makes then about 3 cents. When both using
 this 6 cents. Hmm that would be interesting when
 the user makes often make brakes/pause in their talk.

Sorry guys, I was not asking about codecs, I was just asking
about delay on GPRS. ;)

Should I start again with a more simple example?
I will send a voicemessage of 20 seconds to my friend.
My Tarrif would cost with 60/1 second counting full 16 Cent.

20 second audio with 2.150 kbit/s  will create a file of
43 kbit = 5.375 kByte.
0.24Euro/MByte GPRS traffic with 10KB block will calculate
10 kByte for the message to my frind, this makes
0.0024 Euro = 0.24 Cent for me.

So my question would be how much delay will bring a GPRS
connection compared with normal internet connections?

Greetings,
rob









Greetings,
rob

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Ok I should write _asyncrone_ Voice over GPRS in the subject from the beginning ... ; )

2007-02-02 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Andreas!

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:

 * Paul Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070202 18:18]:
  On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile  Embedded 
  wrote:
   Also, most data plans specifically prohibit VoIP usage
   and may even prevent it technically.
  
  AFAIK, only T-Mobile did that, and they removed that clause a few months 
  ago.
 
 Eplus does have that clause too.

Who cares? When the communication is asyncron we could store the
voice date in one file that even is encrypted...
.. when we talking about asycrone Voice over GPRS 
- voice chat with a little delay...

Cheers,
rob

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What more to add to http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/GPRS ? Re: Voice over GPRS?

2007-02-02 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Paul!

Paul Wouters schrieb am Freitag, den 02. Februar 2007 um 18:13h:

 On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Robert Michel wrote:
 
  Does anybody has experiances/ideas about Voice over GPRS?
 
 See: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rc277/globe02.pdf

Thank you, I direcly put this good source into our wiki :)

Sorry for switching now to GPRS general:

For the GPRS connection in general would be more interesting:
- firewall on the Neo
- what is with GPRS push services?
- how to count the GPRS traffic (to count equal to the provider)
- a limitation of data/hour data/day data/week data/month with
  user warning
- statistic for GPRS traffic use  
- for prepaid cards automaticaly checking the prepaid credit/money on account 
--  before and after calls
--  each day/hour or each 10MB GPRS traffic


And just an idea in case that the Neo has only GPRS class B:
Using another old GSM mobil with GPRS and Bluetooth - so using
Internet connection while phonig whith the help of the second
phone.

BTW do you think two low quality phone connecitons would be possible
via 9600 Baud?

Greetings
rob




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Re: Crytped calls through 9600Baud GSM-data connections?

2007-02-02 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Paul!

Paul Wouters schrieb am Freitag, den 02. Februar 2007 um 20:43h:

 On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Robert Michel wrote:
 
  Did you discussed OTP, using less mobile device batterypower to add
  to the voicestream to build an encrypted connection between on users
  mobil and his homeserver?
 
 Nope. In general, devices these days have enough cpu power to just do
 AES. CPU isn't the limiting factor, latency and/or bandwith are. (for
 voice encryption at least)

CPU isn't maybe a limiting factor, I thought about the batterypower :)
And OTP would give an latency advantage as well. ;)


  -would piping through such a connection possible without TCP or other
   overhead?
 
 If you do a gsm dat call, you can of course run your own protocol like
 cryptophone does. 

My question is, would it be possibe to run 2 low quality phone calls
via one GSM data connection with speex?
Or when not having a second phone call, the connection could be used
for data transmission.

  PS: I made advertisement on this list for your presentation in Berlin,
  and that this video is no online - but good that mention that it
  is online again - it worth for the most here on the list to see it.
 
 I moved some files and removed the ASF file in favour of the mp4 file,
 since the ASF file caused a lot of problems for people to get to play.
But there are also other mirrors... see my mail and my downloadscript:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001561.html

Greetins,
rob


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Re: Other uses for the gsm/gprs hardware....

2007-02-02 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Tim!

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007, Tim Newsom wrote:

 While the phone is not on a call, can we use the gsm audio codec or 
 other hardware/software to do useful work?  For instance, decoding of 
 some audio file or something like that.

Yes but not with the GSM IC - the Neo1973 itself has a quite powerfull
audio IC, to be accurate, wolfson WM8753 - see Seans mail:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000737.html

 I know we don't have access to the bare metal of the chip, but its 
 probably at least an arm processor with some dsp or something right? I 
 would think it could be useful in some way other than just phone 
 calls/data transfer.
Of course ;) we had already several normal or freaky ideas what
to do with it. Sorry that not every idea is in our wiki yet..
but we have our mailarchive.

Just see the Neo as a 
mobil (embedded) computer + Linux + GSM/GPRS + AGPS + Bluetooth

Have you had something special in mind to do with the audio IC?

Greetings,
rob


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2-3 flavours ; ) Re: the power of defaults Re: Any alternative ideas to fullscreen popup-messages?

2007-02-01 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Bryan,Mickey,*!

IMHO an important usergroup for OpenMoko/Neo1973 (in the beginning)
will be *nix administrators, developers and maintainers. 
A comfortable ssh client will makes their smartphone to a mobile
terminal - that the device is trustworthy is very important...

They are used to use Linux without GUI or with spartanic GUI and
they are used that the tools behave very predictable - a vim 
window will not be suddendy overlapped by a popup window.

Mickey wrote it is still just a phone - well, for me is the
mobil shell, mobil (emebedded) linux computing  more important 
than that the Neo1973 is a phone. I like it, that i can phone
with it and I also like to contribute ideas/solution to make
phoning more confortable:
 that not everybody is bothering me in just the moment when *he*
 wants to talk with me, while I'm
- eating
- learning
- paying in a shop
- changing the train
- I'm writing an SMS/Email
And I'm not thinking to swith off the phone or just rejecting the
incomming calls as alternative - I serveral cases just 2-10 seconds
would be perfect to finish something that I'm would doing with my Neo
as PDA or mobil computer/shell
I just want the comfort when I have PDA and GSM phone as two seperate
devices.

And I do not care about the need to have one step more to answer a call,
when I would work with a PDA I would have also 2 steps
1. get the phone into my hand
2. answer the call

With OpenMoko
1. swith to telephone mode/screen (with a keystroke for the
   austere/Spartan lovers, one icon as compromise (LED for the
   future would be interesting :)))
2. answer the call

While not using the Neo as PDA/mobil computer/mobil shell
it will behave just like a Phone, one step to pick up the call.


On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Bryan Fink wrote:

 On 1/31/07, Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  My preference would be some system whereby I could select a list of
  events that are allowed to interrupt me, and to what level they're
  allowed to interrupt - visual: fullscreen/halfscreen/footer/none;
  audio: interrupt/mix over/none.
 
 This seems like too much work to setup profiles/configurations etc.
 Most users probably wouldn't bother. Very important to consider The
 Power of Defaults :) See Flickr and default Public on photos vs.
 private by all the other photo sites.
 
 
 A *very* good point.  I fell into the typical developer trap of
 casting myself as an average user there for a minute.  Hell, now that
 I think about it further, even I'd get tired of switching options and
 settle on some, probably less than optimal, default.  :P

So when OpenMoko have 2-3 flavors like
-OpenMoko Normal (with bothering instant popups like every other
  smartphone)
-OpenMoko austere/Spartan/Guru/Admin/Expert/

It would be ease to develope with just 2-3 different flavors.

Greetings,
rob

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[moved to community mailinglist]Re: ruby in openmoko

2007-02-01 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Fred!

Welcome to the OpenMoko community. :)

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi All,
 I am new to this mailing list. I have not seen any email mentioning Ruby and 
 Rails.
 
 Can anyone please forward old emails relating to ruby in openmoko?  
please use google with site:openmoko.org ruby

 I am a newbie to ruby. But heard that ruby is a programming language that can 
 make life of a 
 programmer a little bit comfortable. That's why I am starting to learn it.

When somebody makes a packet for ruby, it will be possible to install
ruby with OpenMoko - AFAIK is this not done yet and I can imagine that
ruby will be not installed by default (But I'm just a listmember 
and not memeber of the core developing team).

Of course ruby is a language with a great potential,
but consider that the Neo1973 is still an embedded device
with limited recources. So a concentration on some used
languages will save recources and will make cooperation
more easy. Developing and learning with OpenMoko could
be more fruitfull when using languages which are used
with OpenMoko regulary.

That I moved with your mail to the other list is not personal,
every idea or questions seems to deal with development, so
on the first view you have choosen the right mailinglist.

But what for what does we need then the community mailinglist?

We have a second development list to make it people who are
working on a concret programming project with OpenMoko
more easy to start - to find informations...
So a general question will be xy comming with OpenMoko
is a community question ;)

And don't get me wrong, on a long term (next months) it would be
very fine to have the power to use ruby with OpenMoko, that people 
having good programs/skripts with ruby could also use them with 
OpenMoko. With google you will find some talk about ruby on
the community mailinglist, and when the first Neos are shipped,
I think some of the first users will play/use Ruby so that then
it will be more to read/discuss.

Maybe some other ruby interested people on this community
list? (community list is older and has much more members)

Beside Ruby you are also welcome to share your ideas/whishes about
an open Linux Smartphone ;)

Greetings,
rob


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Re: Posibility to get status informations with the help of a LED

2007-02-01 Thread Robert Michel
Salve denis!

denis schrieb am Donnerstag, den 01. Februar 2007 um 11:03h:

 I searched the different hardware specs and archives of the mailing list but
 didn't find any information if LEDs will be one part of the hardware.

AFAIK the Neo1973 v1 will have no LEDs (beside the screen backlight and 
inside the touchscreen)

 One of
 the most important things, from my point of view, talking abount a mobile
 phone is the possibility to get a silent alarm with the help of a LED. 

A binking screen should be visibel enough.

 So is something like this planed?

We collected some ideas for the next version of the Neo and 
having one or more LEDs are already an idea/wish discussed
here.

Greetings
rob

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11 Lanuages :) Re: Wikipedia update

2007-02-01 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Sergio!

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, Sergio Bessa wrote:

 OpenMoko in Portuguese
 http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMoko

Great! 
I have also seen that we have a finish version new
as well! Was it your work, Janni-Matti?

So that makes 11 languages now :)))

Hey this is fun and shows how powerfull our community 
already is - 11 languages strong! 

[[da:OpenMoko]]
[[de:OpenMoko]]
[[en:OpenMoko]]
[[es:OpenMoko]]
[[fi:OpenMoko]]
[[fr:OpenMoko]]
[[it:Openmoko]]
[[nl:OpenMoko]]
[[pl:OpenMoko]]
[[pt:OpenMoko]]
[[ru:OpenMoko]]

So it is easy to join and spend some minutes for translating,
and when someone finds some mistakes in any languages don't
blame the translator - just be productive and fix it yourself!

Any ideas how to make the english article better?

And that OpenMoko will be found by Wikipedia users,
we can gives OpenMoko some links inside the wikipedia
for every languages at pages that makes sence like:
WhatLinkshere
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/OpenMoko 

 * Symbian OS   

 
 * Smartphone   

 
 * Embedded Linux   

 
 * Open source hardware 

 
 * List of smartphones  

 
 * TuxPhone 

 
 * Openmoko (redirect page) 

 
 * Neo1973 (redirect page)  

Mentioned on Symbion OS page? See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbian_OS 

Maby this is not a neutral way to link OpenMoko,
IMHO it is better to have less links from other
articles but un-disputed.

BTW Whats the role of OpenEmbedded for OpenMoko?


So suggestion: let us first make the linking of the english 
version better, and then use this linking ideas for other
languages.


A list which is growin as well is:
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Translation :)

At last the list of translated wikipedia articles could
grow with (Afrikaans),Hebrew,(Japanese) and Turkish.

This OpenMoko project makes much fun ;)

Cheers,
rob

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One general wish - let us make encryption as easy then possible!

2007-02-01 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Sean!

paranoid on

Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb am Donnerstag, den 01. Februar 2007 um 19:28h:
  Well, you're not wrong, certainly: people use MMS even though it _is_ 
  horribly
  broken (and expensive, etc.) I guess the point I'm attempting to make here 
  is
  that in addition to the challenges in just getting a working phone out the
  door, you sign up to take on what seems, to me, anyway, to be a pretty
  substantial educational exercise.
 
 Agreed. But we're trying our best to discourage the common user until phase
 2 of our roadmap. This will give us time to see if this educational
 exercise produces something better than MMS. Both fingers are crossed ;-)

It doesn't matter if it is about SMS,(MMS),instant messaging
(jabber?),email, phonecalls or data connections
(sftp/https/ssh/freenx/...)

I would like to see a good security/encryption/keyhandling/OTP support
as core function in the OpenMoko design.
OpenMoko/Neo1973 has so much potential to achieve both - a high level
of security *and* usability.

E.g. the device modus of USB allows that the Neo1973 is a virtual 
cryptocard that protects your private key when you are working with
a workstation/server...

Meeting people would a great chance to exchange public keys and 
sign them. 

Non OpenMoko users you could give a J2ME applet and 140 KB random data
(SMS has 160*7 Bit = 140*8 Bit) as OTP for your next 1000 SMS 

For companies would it be interesting to hide even the information
which employee is communicate with whom - e.g. every 15 minutes
every employee upload and download a dummy packet with or without
information inside.

Can't understand companies trusting blackberry by giving them
all their sensible communication on blackberry servers.

Greetings,
rob


PS:
It is not a question if you are paronoid,
it's a question if you are paranoid enough ;)

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Re: data encryption + Biometric security

2007-02-01 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Ben!

First it sounds a very smart idea to have biometric security,
but sorry, when I give you some sceptical feedback.

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, Ben Burdette wrote:

 Here are a couple of items for the phone wish list:  data encryption and 
 biometric security. 

Biometric security wasn't discussed by the OpenMoko community yet,
I'm no crypto expert, but I'm not convinced that biometric worth 
the hardware... see:
http://www.ccc.de/biometrie/fingerabdruck_kopieren

When somebody wants to play with biometric security  the Neo1973
could be used for voiceanalysing - Print 7 random words to the 
screen and the user has to read them aloud ...

 I'd like the phone to be a secure place for me to 
 store passwords and similar information.  Are there plans to have some 
 security features like this, that would prevent someone from extracting 
 secure data from the phone if it was lost? 

A file could have an encrypted filesystem, acess is given
only for a while and only while GPRS connection is on.
If it is lost, use Internet or an asterisk server to 
unmount this file.

 Having a fingerprint scanner would be more of a convenience feature so I 
 wouldn't have to enter a password whenever I want use the phone, or 
 alternatively when I want to access encrypted data. 

Sounds nice, but I have doubts that a fingerscanner is given
real security.

I will going to play with my (Debian) Crytoflex card, but
not to make access more easy - to make it more secure.
So when I have to lost both - my Neo and my Cryptotoken.

projectblackdog.com costs 199US$+Chiping for me to expensive.

But this is just my 2cents

When somebody has such a finger scanner and likes to make it
running with OpenMoko would be fine - but expect also some 
feedback that the fingerscanner concept is not so secure as
it looks like:
google finger scanner site:www.schneier.com

Greetings,
rob



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Re: Wish list: Call Forwarding from Neo

2007-02-01 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Mary!

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, Mary Stovel wrote:
 I can  set up my voip service to forward calls to my cell (or any or  
 multiple numbers).   Because my home phone calls are less expensive  
 than my cell calls...when I am at home, I would like my cell phone  
 calls to ring over to my home phone. It  would be good if the cell  
 phone could be programed to ring first.  I do not like to tell  
 people, who call me on my cell to call me back on my home phone, or  
 to ask them to hang up to let me call  them back.
  At least this, until I get a Neo with voip and I use it as my ONLY   
 phone!

Asterisk PBX will help to do this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk
When you have more than 256 Kb/s up and downstream you could
have e.g. a NSLU2 at home to let asterisk running - or, I do
have a Linux vserver for 3 Euro/Month.

Asterisk is a telephonyserver which can work with SIP and also
with ISDN cards Let me explain, what I use already:

I have a Voip with a land line number with is cheap for my
friends to call - just like normal land line numbers.
My asterisk forward this call to my VoIP ATA (Greandstream HandyTone
286, will be replaced with a AVM Fritz Box) and my GSM mobil.
When I'm at home I can pick up the call (without costs for me),
when I pick up the call with my GSM mobil, I pay less then when
my friends would call me from their land line...

With the Neo1973 some improvements become possible
1. probably it is possible to forward the call via Bluetooth
2. via GPRS can I transmitt the caller id to the GSM
3. when I'm at my parents place I can switch asterisk to 
   forward my incoming calls to my parents place. When a 
   incoming call is comming an asterisk script will inform
   my Neo is ringing and a Infoscreen (mayby Popup :) says:
 
   Mary is calling
   forwarded to your
   Parents line

So I can say before my parents phone ring
- next call is for me ... and pick up the call 

The same when I visit my friends who use VoIP, then
I can forward the call free of costs.

With AGPS I can automatisated this forwarding.

Asterik can play an intro when sombody picks up the call
at my parents place This is a call for robert

When you doing something like this with your office or
somewhere else - Asterisk can ask you for a Code
This is a call for Robert, please enter your code


I will write more about these scenarious in about two
weeks when I have more time. Consider that some of this
ideas needs some development.. but the Neo1973 has a
high potential to do nice things...

To answer your subject in a short way:

The best solution for forwarding calls would on a server,
not on the Neo itself. So not forwarding *from* Neo,
forwarding *to* the Neo.

Greetings,
rob


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Re: data encryption + Biometric security

2007-02-01 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Mark!

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, Heilpern, Mark wrote:

 Watching things like tv's MythBusters defeat fingerprint sensors is
 interesting and entertaining, but when you know they're using several
 year old, out-dated technology for the sensors they evaluate, you might
 suspect that there's more to the story that they're telling you.

The German Chaos Computer Club ccc.de is not a TV program,
that are quite good hackers - and also Bruce Schneier is.

Rodolphe gave allready a good feedback that lake of information
does not creats trust. E.G. the team of the GPG-crypto-card had
to sign a NDA - so I do not trust this cards that
- the algorithm didn't get extention
- that the random generator is good enough
- that this cards didn't have a backdoor
- that the encryption result doesn't have hidden the 
  private key inside.

I wrote I'm no crypto expert - but that does not mean that
I have my knowledge from the TV.

BTW I trust several years old CPU and network chips more
than modern chips.

 Disclaimer: I work for a fingerprint sensor manufacturer.

I doe very welcome that people of fingerprint sensor manufactures
are active here on this list. I'm just a normal member on this
list (btw a civil engineering student with some ICT interest)
I'm not speaking for more than for myself.

I will not negate that finger sensors could be interesting,
but security is not just a quetion of products and money you
spent into - the slogan you always get what you paid for is
definitve wrong for security.

For secure systems it is relevant good when everybody understand
how it is working - e.g. voting box and paper votings are IMHO
more secure then voting PC could be...

So the question is for what is the fingerprint sensor used on
the phone
1.) avoiding calls on your bill
2.) secure your adressbook
3.) secure your private keys 

For 1. and 2. a fingerprint sensor brings more comfort and would
be IMHO OK.
But about 3 IMHO we are talking about a field 
- where simple and open solutions would be better
- and security is more important then comfort.

Let us assume I would become maintainer of some OpenMoko packets
and my private key to sign would be on my Neo1973 - I hope it
will be so trustworthy that this would not be seen as negligent/careless
how could a fingerprinter enhanced the security for this private key?


Don't get me wrong, there are many fields where not as much security
as possible would be neccessary and a Neo1973 with build in
fingerscanner could become a very interesting product, e.g. when
somebody has employees which he could/will trust less then
your company authentec.com
So I do see a perspective for next generation Neos or Third party
modificated Neos with buildin fingerscanners - so playing with
external scanners to have some prototypes would help starting
this market field - and I personal would like to see individuell
modification of OpenMoko and the Neo1973
- train ticket device with printer
- barcodescanner for logistic task
- fingerscanner for...

So yes this topic is interesting for some markets.

I don't think that for normal skilled linux user a fingerprint sensor
could be a full replacement of his password protection - I only would
use it __only__ as additional feature, __not__ as password replacement
(for real secure task like protecting private keys).



Ok let us speak Tachels - the calculation of the iphone has become
publish and the AGPS chip producer GlobalLocate had published in his
presentation that when buying more than 10k chips the AGPS costs less
then 5 US-$. Can you tell us more about your products and which level
of security would be possible with costs of 5 US-$ or less.

Again, I'm just a student interested in this project and I would like
to compare the cost and benefit of additional components for further
Neo modells. ;)

But beside my direct question, I would like see this discussion 
going on, not only the next days - experiances with OpenMoko
and more information about fingerprint sensors could build a basis
that it will continous in weeks or month - so please stay active here ;)

Ah, and what you are thinking about the potential of multitouch 
screen sensors, could they be used for a fingersensor? This would
have the advantage that no additional sensor field must be in/on the
device.


Greetings,
rob



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Re: AT commands (Re: But wich GSM chip? Re: AT commands document (Was: Fax modem? Fax software? Neo as T.38 gateway?))

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Harald!

Thank you for the list.

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Harald Welte wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:11:53AM -0800, Dimitris Kogias wrote:
  Isn't the AT-capable port going to be available to userland via a serial
  abstraction?  If so, its AT command profile won't be a secret very long.
 
 there's nothing secret about that AT command profile.  The chipset
 supports all of the mandatory ETSI GSM TS 07.07 commands (use 
 http://pda.etsi.org/pda/queryform.asp to get it), plus some of the
 optional ones.

I put the list into the wiki - it would be fine to mark
out which are not the optional ones and how to use them.
So from this list, every contribution, commentation of
this commands are welcome.

 So I really don't understand all this fuzz.  It's really very much
 standard compliant.

The fuzz could be based on
- no documention yet what the chip supports
- experiances that GSM devices/chips from siemens have 
  own solutions
- that some vendors has not good support/services

Or positiv written that good documentations motivates to chooce a
device/project to test and hack some ideas. 

Maybe it was a missunderstanding when we ask about the chip,
it was not about secret things, just about normal open documentation
about it. Even when the Neo1973 is not shipped, this list and
e.g. the information about fax could motivate some people here
on the list to start playing with there eqipment and tools to
be a little bit prepared ...

E.g. the network quality - nearly non of us would run around 
(daily) with mobil/laptop/GPS device to monitor the networkquality,
but with the Neo1973 it could be an interesting thing.

So thank you for this list, it helps to think about the power
of the Neo1973 and motivats to play with AT commands... :)

Greetings,
rob



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Q: How does USB hubs work? Re: Multiple USB Devices

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Michael Fletcher wrote:

  I was wondering, I have been searched the mailing list, but can't seem 
  to find an answer.  Will it be possible to connect a powered USB HUB 
  into the 1973.  So that for example the phone can charge, have a USB 
  WiFi dongle attached and a USB mouse/keyboard all connected at the same
 time?
 
 yes.
 
 Brilliant! Thanks for that :-)

So now the question, how does an USB hub work?
Can we plug in the host on any port?

The Neo1973 will have mini-USB-B

normal hubs powered USB-A for the adapter 
and one unpowerd USB-B for the host.

So to connect the Neo with a PC we have a mini-USB-B to USB-A cable. 
1.) Can we plug the Neo with USB-A it into the (battery powered) hub
and charge it whith it?  (I think yes)
2.) Can we plug the Neo with USB-A it into the (battery powered) hub
and use an USB device plugged into the hub?

So reducing the USB connector and adapter mess...
we could modifiy a (battery powered) hub in a way that on USB-A port
will be an unpowered one (or just switchable power). Then could
we deccide if we want to charge the Neo with the hub or not.
(And we don't need a mini-USB-B to USB-B cable/adapeter)

So how behave USB hubs? Just stupied forwarding to every port,
no special host port (internaly)?

Greetings
rob

PS: And what would happen when two hosts are connected to one hub?


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Please no crossposting! Re: Information regarding the Messaging Support in OpenMoko

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Suresh!

I'm just a listmember, but maybe my answer will help you.
The core developers are very busy at the moment so everybody
has to use patience when things will be published.

And also the official realease would create more feedback
when they are able to publish unpublished fakts ... :)

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Suresh Kumar Sugguna wrote:
 Can any one of the developer inform me about the messaging (SMS or EMS or
 MMS) support in OpenMoko? I was searching for the specification document or
 web address (link) regarding the messaging support in OpenMoko software
 code.

AFAIK when the first Neo1973 will be shipped to devleopers in
February/March SMS function will be running.
I don't think that EMS and MMS is limmted by hardware, so
it will be a question of time when this will be running as well.

Consider that full running devices for endusers will be shipped
in September - so the devices now are for pleople who like to
develope or testing - it should be not a mobile replacement
for productive use for pleople that only want to have a working
device.

 Kindly mail me your responses at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Kindly please consider that on mailing list could be thousands,
on some several ten thousands of subscriber. Crossposting is not
polite - better is to choose *one* mailinglist and wait for response,
and for question like this, the community mailinglist would be
the right one.

My formal reaction is not personl... I just try to avoid 
uncultivated crossposting that makes the separate developer 
mailingist contraproductive.

community = open community dissucssion about everything,
ideas, whishes, questions, documentation,
translations...
openmoko-devel = software design - SDK questions...

And the access to the OpenMoko deleloper launch box
is not restricted to openmoko-devel poster, this
box is also going to community poster ;)

 Waiting for your express replies,
Hope that my answer was quick and informative enough.

And don't get me wrong - I'm happy about your interest about 
OpenMoko/Neo1973 and the question about EMS and MMS is a good
one - but let us give the core team time until the 11th Februar
- see Sean's (project leader) roadmap anouncment:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/00.html

So you are very welcome on the community mailinglist to share
your wishes and ideas what we could do with OpenMoko better then
existing smart phone solutions.

E.g. because you are interested in SMS/EMS/MMS - do you
have any ideas, what we could make better? How?

Greetings,
rob

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary Re: Translators needed?

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Engin!

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Engin Erenturk wrote:

 In my opinion the translations must be done professionally for such a product 
 like this. Instead of volunteers who are not professionals, volunteers who 
 are professionals and volunteer who can provide a professional translation 
 must localize this product. I localized RSSOwl into Turkish, and I gathered 3 
 of my friends and discussed every one of the phrases translated. But in the 
 end it is not like a professional translation. It's very important to give 
 the same meaning of the sentence in the localized language instead of pure 
 translation. Sometimes it is very hard to do such a thing. The best example 
 is the Microsoft products, even I don't support or like them, they did great 
 job in localization... They got a big book of meanings of words/phrases which 
 are used in Microsoft products, books etc. If someone wants to do a 
 translation for the books etc. they gave this didctionary to them to use it 
 as reference dictionary... As I said if there are volunteers who are
  professionsals and who can localize it with professionals must be found... 
 I'll try to get in touch with a professional translator who is experienced in 
 technical translations if there is a need for Turkish localization.

I would like to disagre. Open translation has the big 
advantage that people could give feedback about the
translations - many opensource projects include the
wikipedia are working without the support of professional
translators.

Getting in touch with professional translators would help
in some rar cases of doubts/dispute. IMHO more important
is that the people who translate does know what the software
device do at that moment.

Some meta translation - creating an own specialised dictionary 
for mobil communications could help to do the translations.
Has anybody experiances with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary?
Would it possible to join Wiktionary with having a 
specialised dictionary for mobil communication
OpenMoko-Wiktionary?

Greetings
rob


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Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary Re: Translators needed?

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Engin!

I like your motivation and your will to find a some experienced in 
localisation/translation. You have the experiance with the 
localization of RSSOwl and that the help of 3 friends seems not to
be enought to reach a professional translation.

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Engin Erenturk wrote:
 I think you got me wrong. I'm not against open translations, I know how 
 wikipedia works, and I really believe thats the true way for many areas. What 
 I want to say that, this is a phone and this phone can be used anyone... so 
 the localizations must be done very carefully, because you have to tell the 
 user the exact meaning or explanation of an icon, a small text, or a button. 

You are right, whe you are publishing it, you must be carefull.
I thought about to translate man pages into German, but I didn't
done it, because I saw this is to complecated - I don't find the
right words for 100%.
So when we have an open system, a translation into German would
be read by many people that I do not know - when they have a better
formulation they could change it  - maybe with a small comment 
why, maybe with a small hint where there have this expression from.

 This is what I'm facing at the Turkish of the devices I've got. Even some 
 world brand devices have really bad localizations.For example I've a Sony 
 handycam and the menu localization is terrible. I'm not saying that a pro 
 must do this and no one can change it. I say, someone experienced in 
 localization of this kind of devices can be very useful. 

Useful yes. A good friend of mine has one of his job at his company
to test software of mobiles for big companies... I'm telling him
about OpenMoko/Neo1973, but I do not try to get some help from him.
So manybe a professional translator does have some seperation of
business and freedomwork as well - I don't know.

I just tried to encorage you and other to do not think
my skills are not good enough, we need a professional
for this.. no - OpenMoko is a training field where you
can join for fun, for getting some new skills, for supporting
this project and the reposablility of a good translation will
not belongs to you - it will belongs to the community.

When somebody take the time and did a translation as good as he
could - and nobody who read this will make some improvements
- then the others are reponsable for the bad localization.

Having very low barrier/hurdle to support this project is very
important - I hope everybody will be surprised what he could
contribute and how easy it was...

So I didn't want to stop you - I only tried to motivate and encourage
that everybody has skills good enough to contribute 
- no professional skills needed :)

best wishes from Aachen,
rob

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We have alread 9 languages! :) Re: Translators needed?

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve José!

Your offer started a very fruitfull thread - thank you!

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, José Suárez wrote:

 Hi to everybody.
 I've been quite excited about the OpenMoko development and release
 schedule.
 I'm pretty sure I would like to buy one Neo1973 when they were
 available and
 became usable.
 I'm not a developer and don't know how to code, but I would like to
 contribute
 to the OpenMoko project to make it great. Given that the only way I
 think I
 could help at the moment is by translating some of the UI/GUI messages

Your mail started a very fruitfull thread, we have no the
offer of translation help for 9! languages :)

Please all visit:
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Translation
and add your name when you like to join.
As more people like to help for one languages as better,
and less work for everybody ;)

Greetings,
rob


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Re: Is vim included out-of-the-box or shall i port? (was: Re: Development environment

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Richi!

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Richi Plana wrote:

 On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 08:52 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Speaking of vim, will vim (or another derivitive of vi) be among the 
  included
  applications, or shall I try cross-compiling it right now? (I can't live 
  w/out
  vim).
  
  To justify this being on the developer list and not the community list I 
  could
  pretend that only developers will want vim on their Neo.
 
 Why would you want vim (or any source editor) running on your Neo? First
 of all, the primary interface to the Neo is still its touchscreen.
 Keyboards won't be available for a while.

This isn't true. Battery powerd USB hubs and USB Keyboards are on the
market and costs togehter less then 20Euro. And most text edior have
a uniq way how they behave - so having several ediors for the users
to choose that on that they used to - it will be a good solution for
everybody - no need to start an editor flamewar :))

And I'm realy happy about the desin without a keyboard but 
a great touchscreen of the Neo. Short text input / modification
with the touchscreen, writing more text = using an external 
normal keyboard, IMHO the perfect solution for a mobil computer.


I, myself like to use vim, I use vim to write my emails - mutt is
calling vim and so I would like when vi (with busybox) or vim is 
on the neo. Touchscreen is a point to think about that a virtual
keyboard could be optimized for different editors.. e.g. is ESC
often used, working with vim.. :)

BTW vim is also usable with the textbrowser elinks - when editing
text boxes...

So I see demand and use for vim with OpenMoko.

Greetings,
rob


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2-3 parallel solution to choose by the user? Re: Any alternative ideas to fullscreen popup-messages?

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel

Salve Mickey!

I think many users could live with popups,
but I would like to choose a solution that
would not nag me with full or havesize popups

I mean on the longterm, but as official design
of Openmoko, working with every aplication.

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:

 Let's distinguish two types of popup-dialogs:
 
 a) informative (i.e. battery low, incoming sms, sms sent)
 b) confirmative (Mickey calling. Answer / Ignore / Reject?, Do you
 want to remove all contacts?)

b) I hope incomming call will not interupt me to do what I'm doing 
   now

 Right now, we're leaning towards (ab)using the bottom status bar (in
 openmoko-language called 'footer') for informative dialogs and using
 half screen (480x320) popup dialogs for confirmative.

- I guess a third 480x210 is to small?
- could it be transparent?
- will it passiv so that I can go on typing my email/chat 
  and my external keyboard return will not activate the
  default of the pop up?
- where will be the virtual keyboard at that moment?

 What do you think?

I think for several application I would like to have 
*no* popup just a screen inverting flashing like with GNU
screen  and maybe a 1-3 pixel red or inverted frame around
the whole screen - mabey with fast inverting flashing 
mayby with vibra or sound alarm... but a chance to 
to continous with the full screen.

The user would swith with a special keystroke,
or with a keyboard a spechial key combination
to the open popup.

With transparency 
The popupmessage could be in the background 
and a special keystrokes on the touchscreen could
confirm, cancel or deny the popup
e.g.:
pickup - reject or ignore the call

Or optional the text of the popup
Incoming call
Mikey is calling
could be send to the speaker/headphone -
this would inform me and wouldn't disturb my work.

I thing 2 or 3 strong solutions could be forked and 
the user could choose in general of for a profil
or for special aplications how the device behave.
IMHO, one of the 2-3 solutions should be popup-free.

When I work with my laptop and the phone rings,
I can finshed what I'm doing and pickup the phone
then - the same freedom would I like when computing
and phone will be together in a smartphone.

Could you understand my point?

So in oposite to comercial products we have to chance
offer 2-4 different design solutions how to work with
the device. 

Greetings,
rob






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I proposed to move to the community mailinglist Re: Please no crossposting! Re: Information regarding the Messaging Support in OpenMoko

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve David!

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, David Ford wrote:
 p.s. the subject line is no crossposting!  which list do people want
 this to remain on?

I think it is clear that it is a general talk about SMS/MMS 
and not the question how to use the SDK, how to crosscompiling.

Without a clear seperation of both list is having his 2 list
contraproductive. The core developer and the most active people
will read both list.

openmoko-devel would be good to have with a focus on concrete 
coding issus so that programmer find information fast and good
programmer will not unsubscribe because on to much general talk.

community means not just a fan-club, maybe this will change
with a shipping to endusers - but then I would be for a new
mailingist for consumers: openmoko-users.

community IMHO should be a general discussion place,
and openmoko-devel when it is about coding problems or knowhow.

E.g. the question about FAX modem, AT commands and  GPRS class
is also in a way about developing - but IMHO this topic is without
any direct programming issue - so it is community.

Also translation is important, also for developing software to
have localisation, but the question who will could translate
which language is general talk, better on community - it could
also motivate people with low or no programming skill to 
join and support this great project.

Then openmoko-devel would be stay clear that hackers/coders/programmers
will find fast the information that they need.


So excuse my action on this point, but without care about
a clear separation, one list would be better then two.


When Harald, Sean or Mickey have another idea about
the use of community and openmoko-dev - please write
us how to use the two list in a clear and efficient 
way.

let us see what Harald has written:
--snip--

 2) openmoko-devel at lists.openmoko.org

 


 
 This is a mailinglist dedicated to OpenMoko development.  From 

 
 developers, for developers, by developers. 

 


 
 Please do not ask questions related product sales, availability,   

 
 support, usage, wishlist items, licensing or any other topic that is   

 
 not related to technical development on this list. 

 


 
 Initially, we didn't want to start this list before 'Phase 0' (Feb.
11),

 i.e. when there are actually developers with the device in their hands,

 
 and when the source code has been released.

 


 
 However, due to the large demand, we were convinced that it was

 
 important to start this list right now.  Nonetheless, keep in mind that

 
 the OpenMoko development team is extremely small.  

 


 
 Everybody is concentrating to make the 'Phase 0' release happen on 

 
 schedule.  Therefore, the amount of time that we can spend to deal with
  

Wikipedia update :) Re: We have alread 9 languages! :) Re: Translators needed?

2007-01-31 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Krzysztof!

Great!

Krzysztof Kajkowski schrieb am Mittwoch, den 31. Januar 2007 um 22:03h:

 2007/1/31, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 
 Please all visit:
 http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Translation
 and add your name when you like to join.

Polnish seems to get a strong support :)

 I deceided to volunteer to do some polish translation. I translated several
 applications, my english is quite good (I use it all the time at work) and I
 think I manage ;)
 
 I also created polish wikipedia page: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMoko

Great now we do have OpenMoko in 9 languages in the wikipedia:

[[da:OpenMoko]]
[[de:OpenMoko]]
[[en:OpenMoko]]
[[es:OpenMoko]]
[[fr:OpenMoko]]
[[it:Openmoko]] - does this realy exist, please check...
[[nl:OpenMoko]]
[[pl:OpenMoko]]
[[ru:OpenMoko]]

I have updated the other languages links.

*wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo1973 
Also every language has now a Redirectto OpenMoko.
#REDIRECT [[OpenMoko]]_

And to giving a litle back to FIC, we could translate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_International_Computer 
as well :)





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Charging while using USB devices possible? Re: Multiple USB Devices

2007-01-30 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Michael!

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Michael Fletcher wrote:
 I was wondering, I have been searched the mailing list, but can't seem to
 find an answer.  Will it be possible to connect a powered USB HUB into the
 1973.  So that for example the phone can charge, have a USB WiFi dongle
 attached and a USB mouse/keyboard all connected at the same time?

Good question, I can't answer this answer but *if* the Neo1973 hardware 
would support this:

an external powerd (e.g. battery) USB HUB has ony one port for the host
and this one is not powered by this HUB - so the user would have to hack
the powered hub...

Greetings
rob


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Email Push Service :) smtp+dnotify+Asterisk+... :)

2007-01-30 Thread Robert Michel
Salve,

I can't understand why Blackberry and other has become
so big into the market, because the server side software
for a push service are normal linux admins tools.

But wait - the client side need some open programmable
devices - like OpenMoko and the Neo1973 :)))

When GPRS is always on, than it needs just a emailclient
checks regulary every n minutes for new mail - h
that's innovation - didn't we used to use this fetching
emails from pop, imap or mailboxes since years? 
(Myself since 1990)

Soo I'm not keen in having an email push service,
but I'm tired to hear the hype in the news about this.

Again, when GPRS is always on, push service is silly
buzzword, but what when GPRS is off? 

Than we can use 
1. smtp and some filter to get only the right mails 
   into /var/mail/rob2neo1973
2. dnotify will starts a script when a new file
   is in /var/mail/rob2neo1973
3. this script will copy a callfile with a seperate
   callerid into 
   /var/spool/asterisk/outgoing
4. the Neo1973 gets a phonecall from this callerid,
   rejet this call and starts skript2 on the Neo
5. skript2 will switch on GPRS and fetch the new
   mail via POP or IMAP
   and after downloading the mail it will inform
   the user (depend on the dailingprofil)

So did I missed something? Why is push services
and the software for this such a hype?

I thing this populare solution did not worth a look
to see what we can copy - free imanigation will be
more creative :)

E.g. when having such a auto-download mechanism,
it would be good, when could work with different
cost and battery levels... - with hight data costs
(e.g. beeing abroud) or low battery level only short
information will be pushed - and wih very hight
data cost or very low battery it will only show
how many new mails/that new mails are in the servers
box

Giving different senders different priority would be 
fine - maye in combination of the profiles
work/spare time

And a way that the user cold set up it's server filter rules
remotly with its Neo1973.


I'm shure we will have much fun with OpenMoko/Neo1973
using standard tools on the Neo and on a server side :)


Cheers,
rob

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[moved to openmoko-community]Re: Translators needed?

2007-01-30 Thread Robert Michel
Salve José!

Welcome to Openmoko :)

I'm just a student tring to support the community,
so we do not have an official list moderator,
and the official openmoko team member are very busy.
Your mail was send to the wrong list...

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, José Suárez wrote:

 Hi to everybody.
 I've been quite excited about the OpenMoko development and release schedule. 
 I'm pretty sure I would like to buy one Neo1973 when they were available and 
 became usable.
 I'm not a developer

The mailinglist openmoko-devel is only about programming.

Your kind offer to support openmoko should be send to the
openmoko-community mailinglist. I was so free to answer
your mail on this other list. When you haven't subscibed
it yet, please subscribe openmoko-community, now.

Because the people are very busy, some better informations are 
missing - e.g. an automaticaly welcome message that
explains the use of the list a little better
this just have to wait until the first Neo1973 are ready ;) 


 and don't know how to code, but I would like to contribute 
 to the OpenMoko project to make it great. Given that the only way I think I 
 could help at the moment is by translating some of the UI/GUI messages (later 
 when the phone is out I would like to test the apps and report bugs) I want 
 to know if there is any need for translators. If so, I would like to 
 volunteer for the translation of whatever messages into Spanish.

Translation of GUI, of help/man pages and other documentations is IMHO
very important to make projects more populare. Even Debian and Ubuntu 
lakes whith translations and due this it has unused popularity
potential.

Greetings,
rob



PS:
Just an example for english only sides, see an the pages about
Debian/Ubuntu installer for Windows32:
http://www.goodbye-microsoft.com/
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/install.exe
;)







 Thanks for the effort and time you guys are putting into OpenMoko's 
 development. It will surely rock!
 

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Re: idea: second SIM card support

2007-01-30 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Myk!

Welcome to openmoko community :)


On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Myk Melez wrote:

 I live in the US but regularly travel to Hungary, and I have a second 
 SIM card for use abroad.  I know it's too late for v1, but for future 
 versions of the phone, I'd find it useful for the phone to support a 
 second SIM card.

As longer we are active on this list as more difficult will it be for
new subscriber to do not write an idea that wasn't already written on
this list. About second SIM card we have several threads:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000112.html  
(we had some more - take a look at the archive)

So it would be good when we add some more already discussed ideas
to the wiki to make it new subscriber a little more easy.

 There a few different ways it could do this.  Here are some options, in 
 order from best/hardest to still-useful/easiest:

Neo v1 will not have a slot for 2 sims, but probably you will be able
to use a two sim adapter with the Neo1973 ... let us see...

But I have do add an idea - when a Neo v1 or v2 support 2 ore more
sims - how to get the right incomming call

Some GSM provider offers a multicard (other names possible)
http://shop2.o2online.de/nw/produkte/handys/services/multicard/index.html

The same mobil number will be switched to several SIM cards - having
a multicard in an old mobile with RS232, connected to a server... 

Imagine you use two sims in the same country like A=business, B=privat
and you check your incomming SMS with B, that could your skript inform 
your Neo1973 that for A is an incomming call and the Neo will swith
to A.

Signalisation via GPRS would be perfect - but what when you are
calling with friends during office time? Than I hope the v1 (or v2)
of the Neo will have a GSM chip with class A GPRS 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPRS
Class A allows to use GSM phone calls and GPRS simultanious


That we have already written about a second SIM is only speaking that
this would be realy a good idea. So I'm quite shure, that not every idea
is found and there is much more we can do with OpenMoko Neo1973, even
with the version 1.

Greetings
rob


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Re: Q: desktop software?

2007-01-29 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Bryce!

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Bryce Leo wrote:
 I would like to use FreeNX to use the Neo1973 from
 a Workstation, and to have video projctor presentation
 live from a Neo1973.
 
 That sounds like a fantastic idea. It should be pretty simple to get
 something like FreeNX up and running on the device.
 
 Then a full emulation to use the full Neo1973 power
 (beside the touchscreen) on a workstation as well.
 
 Other than the touchscreen what sort of power are you referring to?

Primary the touchscreen and that curser and the Neo GUI should
make visibel that a virtual finger has touched a button 
so that it is more intuitive to understand what happens.

Than screenrecordings with visuable virtual fingers and spoken 
comments would be nice, so that beside of live presentations,
people could get impression how the Neo and it's software is
used.

 I'm probably thinking to literally as desktops are far more powerful
 than a handheld.

Routing of Sound would be a task as well - that the sound of the
Neo will transmitted with FreeNX to the workstation which is connected
to the fix-room-installed PA (room sound system).

 So when the Neo1973 would get lost, lay at home/in the car
 only access to any (trustworthy) workstation would be ok
 to use the Neo1973.
 
 Remember for as trivial as that may be to set up for slightly more
 technical folks, imagine if a very non technical person (i'm thinking
 of my mother right now) were to have to buy a new computer and found
 herself locked out of her phone. Now it's simple to say that they
 should read the manual(s) that come with the device, however we do
 know that no one reads them and everyone loses them.

The documentation of OpenMoko/Neo1973 should be on the Neo itself.

 I will say that I would love love love to see that as an option!
 
 Then do I think that client/server solution would become
 more important then device/desktop software one, even for
 normal user.
 
 I think that the client/server solution is far more powerful and
 flexible, however the simplicity of Hotsync the one touch backup of
 your palm device is what made it so popular in the first place. I can
 take my Treo 650 home every day, connect a cord, press one button, and
 It's connected, now that's convience. I feel that that's the sort of
 conveince and simplicty that we  should shoot for. One touch backkup
 is a fantastic convience and a big +1 when it comes to deciding on a
 phone.

This is a possible way but think about this

- installing new software
  you know apt-cache search IRC, apt-cache show epic3, apt-get install epic3
  so when there is a graphical solution that the very non technical
  person could choose directly on the device what he whants to
  installl...
  
- back up
  because the Neo1973 has a USB host and device mode, it would be
  possible that the usr can define a virtual USB memory device.
  a Backup software on the Neo could behave like this:

  Backup 
  Welcome to your OpenMoko Backup tool.
  Your Backup will create 54 MB big file,
  which you could copy from the Neo1973 
  to your PC when you connect them with your
  No1973 via
  [USB] [Bluetooth] [GPRS]
  please select.

The file will be generated and you can copy from any other maschine.
The Neo1973 will reconginice that you have copied the backup-file
complete.

The same for storing the backup back... start the Restore tool and
copy back your backupfile.

Ah you mean there are users can't work with a shell or a filemanager?
A small application for copy 
c:\OpenMoko\Backup-RoberMichel-070129-15.bz2 
back to the USB memory device with the name OpenMoko-RobertMichel?
A small Program that creates a Internet Routing for the Neo, when it
is connected to the PC?

I would like to see solutions as much as possible independent of the
Workstation systems and installation from the Neo1973 (maybe with 
autorun from USB-Stick) then from a CD-ROM.
And to do this on a secure way, that you can backup/sycronice
in an internet cafe with your server, your NSLU2 at home without
any risks and any problems due the restiction of normal Internet Cafes.

I think from smart client/server solutions will profit even non
technical persons.

Greetings
rob

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Re: Silent mode timeout

2007-01-29 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Ben!

Good idea ;)

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Ben Burdette wrote:

 A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What 
 always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because 
 I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer 
 back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.  You could have a default 
 timeout for simply holding down the 'volume down' button (if there is 
 one on this phone), and this default would initially be 'no timeout'.  
 When you enter silent mode, the GUI could display this current timeout 
 and allow you to adjust it then.  A checkbox would allow you to make 
 this the new default timeout. 

But beside of time - localisation would be also working
- Leave this place +/- 50-100m  and the phone will ring again.

Don't ring here, now-modus

But GPS system could have errors, so I would like to see an GPS controll
network to warn OpenMoko/Neo1973 users when GPS is not working proper
way  - ok not ALARM! BEEEP ALARM! BEEEP ALARM!..non proper GPS could 
activate  unforseen  non-silent modus and maybe will trouble you
ALARM! BP ALARM!... 
;)

So the time methode would be a more trustable one ;)

Greetings
rob

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transparent effect to overlay two calender Re: idea: World Clock

2007-01-29 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Mary,*!

Nice idea :)

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Mary Stovel wrote:

 The pictures of the Neo show a clock.  Will this be a world clock?

I would like that the normal calendar shows time of daylight
- brigher background during the local day 
- darker background during the nigth (maybe including the
  influence of the moon of the nigth darkness..)
gag dark background during solar eclipse :))

Some Linux desktops does have transparent windows,
another idea would be charing calender informtion with
partner/friends - to see when the best time would be to
call them, or to arrange a date having the calender
of the partner in the background.

Now when the partner's calender has dark background I see
when at his localisation the sun will go up/down so it wouln't
be so important to compare the numbers of hours to call at the
right time - the overlaping calender will make it more
intuitive.

Imagine a team/group of 7 people will have a (virtual) meeting and
they want to find the best date for everybody - instead of big
anoying discussion what is with Monday... transmitt the free
times via Bluetooth or GPRS (encrypted) to the others and everybody
can see his calender in front and the other layers with free times
from the team members so it will be visibil (maybe inverted=show
only the time when a person haven't time) for everybody when
the best date would be and when there is a good date where e.g.
only on person haven't time, the 6 can ask him directly if he
can move his date

What do you think? Will it possible to use transperent effects
to have several layers on the screen?

Greetings,
rob

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Hint for all webmail-user Re: Hint for gmail-users: How to mute a conversation

2007-01-28 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Sencer,*!


First I thought your tipp would be to avoid 100 lines of quote by
using a webmailer



To avoid that non gmail-users thing that mailing with gmail is more
comfortable/better than with a normal emailclient my tipp:

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007, Sencer wrote:

 Hello fellow openmoko users,
 
 For all gmail-users there is an easy way to deal with the threads that
 just won't die.

Well when you use a normal (good) MUA (Mail user agent) it will thread
your mails. When you have a filter, that all mails from this mailinglist
came into jut one openmoko-community mailinglist it feels not like mail-
flood anymore.

So with such a 
- separate mailbox 
- MUA (mail client) that organize mail as threads
I've no problem with thread that just won't die.

And when you want to access the mails of this list flexible - I use
the non-GUI MUA mutt, together with GNU-Tool screen and ssh on a
virtual server I rent for 3 Euro/month (1GB space, 1 Domain, unlimited traffic)
Feel free to ask me in PM (private mail) about this - I dislike
spreading popularity of big companies services like skype,
hotmail/gmail (doing money with analysing mails and personal networks)

Greetings,
rob

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Re: Hint for all webmail-user Re: Hint for gmail-users: How to mute a conversation

2007-01-28 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Declan!

Declan Naughton schrieb am Sonntag, den 28. Januar 2007 um 13:59h:

 You can also unsubscribe from the list @
 https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community :)
 
 Other lists: https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/

Will this help to let the community grow?

I don't know if webmailer offer threading the mails -
I just concerned that many mails without the right tool,
an email client with threading function, will bother the 
users. As more people will join this list, as more mails
will be posted.
Looking on an debian-user, asterisk or kernel mailinglist
people (used to get 5 mails a day) will be shooked when 
they get a mail flood - without seeing the overview who
is answering whom.

So the tip of unsubscribing is not the best one 
to let the community grown.

For somebody who don't know about to use mailfilter to
get the mails automaticaly in the right mailbox, a seperate
mail account like [EMAIL PROTECTED] helps. This
could be also a freemailer.

But viewing the mails without threading could be a big
mess... so I have only the experiances with mutt and give
this advice - but there are other mailclients which support
threading and maybe also webmailer which do this.

Sencers hint is IMHO usefull - don't take it personal that
not everyone is interested in every thread.


IMHO charing some skills will help that also people not 
experinaced with big mailinglist stay on this list 
;)

Also I would appreciate that people would ask on this mailinglist
for help like 
  I'm using Thunderbird for reading this mail, but this 
   mailflood is mixing with my privat mails - what can I do? 
instead of unsubscribe.

Having people on this list, and having as early user of OpenMoko/Neo1973
without Linux Admin skills are important - we can profit from their
feedback to make OpenMoko/Neo1973 mass market ready
- so in return we should let them profit by beeing here
e.g. by learning how to mange mails more efficent.

When they unsubscribe we would be a big loss.
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/002401.html

Greetings
rob


PS: Don't get me wrong with my tip of a vserver... I think
client server solutions will play an important role with
OpenMoko/Neo1973, also how to select and filter information
and mails to do not spend to much money on expensive GSM/GPRS
communication.




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Re: Q: desktop software?

2007-01-28 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Oleg!

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007, Oleg L. Sverdlov wrote:

 What software is planned on desktop side? If any.

I would like to use FreeNX to use the Neo1973 from
a Workstation, and to have video projctor presentation
live from a Neo1973.

Then a full emulation to use the full Neo1973 power
(beside the touchscreen) on a workstation as well.

Very cool would be an emulation via web with java,
(maybe with FreeNX again) without any local installation.
(in this case with an own server running the emulation)

So when the Neo1973 would get lost, lay at home/in the car
only access to any (trustworthy) workstation would be ok
to use the Neo1973.

Mabye emulation including doing calls via Voip


Then do I think that client/server solution would become
more important then device/desktop software one, even for
normal user.

So before starting a seperate desktop software, my quetion
is, what more then standard desktop software would be thinkable?


Greetings,
rob


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lightwight good XHTML webbrowser? Re: wap browser? any better one than wApua?

2007-01-27 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Jose!

Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente schrieb am Samstag, den 27. Januar 2007 um 
03:43h:

 WAP 2.0 supports XHTML-Basic and XHTML-Mobile Profile, so use a XHTML
 browser instead...
 
 Old WML is dead!

Hmm, e.G. the German Railway http://wap.bahn.de is still
using wml 1.0 so what will help me an XHTML browser to
use this wappage? XHTML browser wouldn't help - it would
be nice that OpenMoko helps to use even Old (dead) WML.

Ok the railway have also page with XHTML as well: 
http://mobile.bahn.de/

With apt-cache search I have only found Amaya this is
a XHTML webbrowser and editor - needs several libs
and 21,6 MB additional space...
And I haven't found the config to disable editing pages,
and maby because of WYSIWYG it has some graphicaly errors...

And which XHTML browser is lightwight and good to use
with OpenMoko/Neo1973?

When I look into the source - I would like to see a
client/server splitted XHTML browser that on a server
runs the backand and only the frontend on the Neo.
- pictures and same pages could be cached on the Neo
- the transmission beween back-front end compressed
- and long pages would be transmitted in parts (on
  demand)

Some average using profile of XHTML e.G. for Germany
- bahn.de (railway)
- tagesschau.de (news)
could fill the cache automaticaly when having a cheap/free
internet connection

Ah and saving pages as an unvariable document, the chance to
beam (via Bluetooth) and printing would be something that
not every phones support.

At last - train/news/weather informations - our Neo1973 could
become a wireless mailbox for other users, where they could
download the train/news/weather informations that I had downloaded.
Maybe this could create trouble with lawers, let us call this proxy
and let us select some pages to publish with our proxy.

So a smart XHTML editor would become interesting, as well,
e.G. for changing the front page or adding some additional
informations.

The Bluetooth devicename could have up to 255 chars?
OpenMailbox-with-News-Wether-information-free-to-login


Greetings,
rob

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Re: Position of u-SD slot?

2007-01-27 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Michael!

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007, Michael Dickens wrote:

 I'm interested in making use of the u-SD slot with a card much like  
 the Spectec microSDIO WiFi 11g Card, but one developed in house for  
 more general wireless networking.  I assume that the u-SD slot is  
 accessed via the back side of the device, but does anyone know if it  
 will be behind the battery or on the side of it?  

Sorry, it will be behind the battery, so an USB hub with battery power 
and an USB WiFi Adapter will be an alternative

Of course WiFi is interesting, but I see it as advantage to concentrate
on Bluetooth solutions first. Bluetooth with a free hackable phone will
have general wireless networking potential as well ;)

Greetings,
rob

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Re: Combine a SoC and memory on a SD card or Usb device...Re: Possibilities for commercial software?

2007-01-26 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Marcin!

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:

 Dnia pi?tek, 26 stycznia 2007 13:55, Robert Michel napisa?:
 
  For real paranoid sellers:
 
  Build a chip with memory and an embedded system on a microSD card or
  mini usb device and sell this. Use an unique encryption for every
  embdded system so that even hacking out the program from the embedded
  memory wouldn't run.
 
 If part of application will run on this external device then it will be 
 quite good protection. 

I thought to let the  important part or even the full application 
running on the external device. Such an external SoC could also boost
up the power of the device, e.g. when you want to have a game or
more multimedia power...
Beside the Network/Webbrowser idea, it could be also FreeNX.

So when it is not about protection of software, 
take a NSLU2, a laptop or Playstation3 (5kg) with you,
plug it with 12/230V connect it with Bluetooth/USB to your
Neo and use your OpenMoko/Neo1973 as terminal with FreeNX 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_technology
*g*

rob




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Will the OSDL/MLI have a yearly report as well? Re: LiMo foundation

2007-01-26 Thread Robert Michel
Salve David!

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, David Schlesinger wrote:
 
 ACCESS is a participating member of both OSDL's Mobile Linux Initiative and 
 of the Linux Phone Standards Forum--I'm acting chair of the MLI Steering 
 Committee and vice-chair of LiPS' Architectural Working Group--and we've 
 contributed to the requirements documents, API specifications, etc. for both 
 those groups.

I found this today and that the OSDL/DTL (Desktop working goup) has
published it's yearly report and came to the statement that 2006 has
been the year of the linux desktop:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3453502692.html

Linux Organisation membership and organisation politics is not my
business, but from the linux-user point of view it is a little
confusing that OpenMoko/Neo1973 isn't mentioned here:
http://old.linux-foundation.org/lab_activities/mobile_linux/mli

Maybe it is not the right time to ask/talk about this, but I think
that OSDL is doing good work for promoting Linux and that linking
and cooperation would be a bennefit for both OSDL/MLI and OpenMoko...

Or let it me say in that way, it would be nice to read about 
OpenMoko/Neo1973 in a yearly report of OSDL/MLI, at last in the
report about year 2007.

 So I don't think it's accurate to paint those as four different, 
 separate and unrelated parallel efforts. It's our plan of record 
 that the ACCESS Linux Platform will converge with both MLI guidelines 
 and requirements and the set of LiPS-specified applications APIs.

Can you, or Sean, when it doesn't take to much time,  say something about 
OpenMoko and OSDL/MLI?

Greetings,
rob


PS: IMHO LiMo looks like powered by lawers and I think that this foundation
is not a cooperation by their hearts - so we will have several 
advantages/chances to have a better, more efficent cooperation. ;)

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Re: Some thoughts about the real importanted dates for OpenMoko/Neo1973 3GSM World 2007 Barcelona this year ...Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?

2007-01-26 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Gervais!

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Gervais Mulongoy wrote:

 I have to admit that I kind of agree with Marcus, especially in terms of
 leveraging the free marketing that will happen from an early release.
But please not with a buggy hardware... 

 But in order to do this properly, we need to better organize the OpenMoko
 support infrastructure.
 
 Support will be required for:
 * Hardware issues
 * Core software applications
 * Software stack issues
 
 Marcus, how do you propose this will be done?
 
 I think we need to first leverage the community to create a support
 infrastructure with at least the following minimum requirements:
 * a Bug/Feature tracking system per component of the software stack to track
 development/progress.
 * a Wiki which we can use to create the HOWTOs, FAQs, and other guides which
 we can publish in PDF (or whatever) as manuals etc.

Ahh haven't your read Sean mails?
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001586.html

2007-02-11 Phase 0: Developer Preview
We will give away free phones to selected members of the developer
community. At this point, the full source code to the OpenMoko Linux
Distribution will become publicly available. We are committed to
cooperating with the community in the interest of making the
official developer launch a smooth experience.

In the last month we've seen a huge increase of interest in
OpenMoko. To be perfectly honest, we're doing this give away as a
system of checks and balances. We want to get the framework right,
the first time around.

Also, at this time, the following community dedicated websites
will be available:

* http://openmoko.org/ -- for the actual development community
* http://wiki.openmoko.org/ -- for an official wiki of the project
* http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/ -- for bug tracking
* http://lists.openmoko.org/ -- for public mailing lists
* http://planet.openmoko.org/ -- for an aggregated feed
* http://projects.openmoko.org/ -- for user-contributed projects 
 
 What do you think about that?

Is it realy so hart to spend patients for 2-3 weeks? hu?



Now to Marcus answer:
 On 1/25/07, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 03:42 +0100, Robert Michel wrote:
  I don't think that people buy a new phone to going on holiday with the
  new phone - AFAIK the most phones are sold November-January.
 
 People buy phones all year round. And those that do so before their
 holidays will come back and make perfect mouth-to-mouth propaganda. And
 when November comes the others will base their buying decision on
 exactly that. It is perfect leverage at zero cost that you miss out.
 
 I bet that in the christmas season 2008 (not this year) you will have
 plenty of phones with GPS and VGA screens. And plenty of big companies
 throwing big marketing dollars at it.

But you don't want to start selling Neo1973s to normal users with
just only a dialer?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] dial -now +492419968183

  After the flame ware GNU Linux I fear the next flame on this list.
  Marcus your sound was absolutly childish, ego-based and unproductive.
 
 Not at all. The best thing that could happen is a success of OpenMoko
 and FIC. Waiting with the phone until after the summer season is a huge
 loss in free marketing. Just keep my mail and re-read it in two years.

Hey guy! I was talking about your sound! And I'm quite shure that I
would say again in 2 years, that it was absolutly respectless.

  On the long term for nobody of us is it important to start in January,
  or March
 
 That's not true. It is a waste of first mover advantage. Once Google
 comes out with a phone (unless they buy from FIC and use OpenMoko) the
 market gets really tight.

Isn't the market already really tight and who is saying that Google will
bring a OpenSource mobile?

I'm absolutly shure that the team would prefer to ship the first phones
directly in November, instead of February or March...

And can you consider that by not beeing Google or Apple it isn't so easy
to start selling mass of devices? I have mentioned the GSM World in
Barcelona - even when OpenMoko/FIC is there not directly with an on
stand, I think someone will goe there and it will be important that
he could show a running device.
Can you consider that this is more important than shipping the first
devices to the developer now or in two weeks?

Are you reading http://planet.openmoko.org/?
Have you seen 2007-01-24 three days ago, that the stereo speaker was
used the first time:
http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/01/24#20070124-omoko_update

So please spend respect and patient for 2-3 weeks and do not try to
be more worse than economic management of normal companies stressing
the developer to bring 90% finished trash to the market.
Will you make Sean sorrow to start this mailinglist in November instead
of February 2007?


And from a marketing view, think about Rods statement:
http://lists.openmoko.org

Unified message menue? pictures? Re: CallWave

2007-01-26 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Jesse!

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Jesse Ross wrote:
 There was some mention on this list a while ago about an iPhone-style  
 Visual Voicemail system.
I wouldn't mention apple as refference for this idea - 
apple like to claim patents for solutions and like to sue...

 The following service could be a really good  
 replacement, if your carrier supports it:
 
 Discovered via: 
 http://www.therawfeed.com/2007/01/why-wait-for-iphone-visual-voicemail.html

Looks like a Email inbox - so no need to name it 
I-hone-sytle...

Some ongoing ideas
-what about picutes with names?
-what about having a  SMS/Email/Voicemail=Unified message overview?
-what about filter so seperate what's most important - instead of lifo
 (last in, first out) or fifo
-voice meneu for the voice mailbox that the caller could leave
 an importance level and number of hours untill this messige have
 to be heard
- different pictures or freames around the picture for the
  importance of the calls
- from neo to neo some information could be transmitted during
  call, like relaxed, stressed, emergency, very sad/happy
 
- sound analysing if the caller sounds normal or stressed...
- picture of the wave form to separate the soundfiles better

- voice recognition - reading is quicker than listen, it 
  could be done externaly with commercial voice regongnition
  software 
- simple voice recognition could help to separate soundfiles better

-automaticaly merge messages from the same caller when playing back

-on/of switchable voice anouncment of time/date/person before playing
 back

- quick play 1,5 speed

- skipping messages and move it into the folder not so important yet
  marked as new...

Just 3 minutes brainstorm what else would be nice with voicmail system,
much much ore then just iphone...
What more? :)))

Don't get me wrong, I like your mail with this link,
it is focusing on the core function of the phone:
calling / call management ;)

Cheers,
rob


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Glossary Re: Communications (was Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?)

2007-01-26 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Richi!

Good point!

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Richi Plana wrote:
 And with that, let me state that I think it important to use Figures of
 Speech as little as possible in these mailing list. For one thing, many
 of the members of these lists don't have English as their primary
 language (I know I'm one of those). Second, with so many people reading,
 it just increases the chances of miscommunication.

To add: not usal abbreviations (write in bracket what it is standing for)

E.g. when I had written FPGA (Fine Pitch BGA) it would have been clear
that I meant FBGA the packed layout and not Field Programmable Gate Array

GSM, GPRS, and GPS does have also abbreviations that would be unknows
for most of us - a abbreviations glossary would help, just started
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Glossary
increments are wellcome :)

Greetings,
rob


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Re: CallWave

2007-01-26 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Peter!

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Peter A Trotter wrote:

 It's clear the technology is available to make this possible without any
 crude hacks. We need to make friends with the carriers in so many ways to
 make this project fly. 

Why? The Neo1973 could become the voice mailbox in most of the cases.
In case of an area of no GSM service a second SIM at home or an asterisk
call forwarding could help that one of your devices will catch the
voicmail.
So to have a friendly carrier would be nice, but much of solutions
would be possible even without their support.

Just another idea for the voicemailbox 
- the system could anounce (your friends) that you hasn't heard the
  last message and it allowed to replace it with a new message.

Hello, Peter, her is the mailbox of Robert.
 I haven't heard your last voice message,
 press 1 when you want to replace this message,
 or just talk after the beep when you want to
 add more. beep

Imagine you are abroad on a conference and you are in a hurry
and your friends leve a many massages (5 minutes) and the last one is
sorry, forget it, John hasn't time - we will meet us
regulary in two weeks - bye..


Greetings
rob


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IMHO only with the power/security of linux-vserver.org :) Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Shu!

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Shu Hung (Koala) wrote:

 On 1/25/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On 25/01/07, Shu Hung (Koala) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Why don't we just use the Flash for Linux 9 on OpenMoko?
 
 It is proprietary software, and using proprietary software is
 unethical and unsustainable. 

 I understand this GNU rational for the phone. But I would suggest OpenMoko
 to take a more welcoming approach like Ubuntu do. If we have an apt-get like
 application management system, we may have OpenMoko a FOSS default install
 while allowing users to install proprietary software through 3rd party
 respo.

When doing this, linux-vserver.org would help that the device will 
stay a trustworthy device - so please consider to start propietary
non-FOSS software only on an own guest-system. (Jail it!)
http://www.linux-vserver.org needs only a little bit more ressources
and will run on the Neo. :)

Greetings
rob


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Re: Speakerphone

2007-01-25 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Harald!

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Harald Welte wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Gervais Mulongoy wrote:
  I am not sure how important this feature is for others, but will the
  Neo1973 have a loud speaker?
 
 The Nei1973 has three speakers in total. Two speakers for stereo
 playback of ringtones, music, etc, and one headset speaker ('receiver')
 used for voice calls.

Where are the places of the speaker?
 _
/  3  \
|  |
|  |
|  |
|  |
---|
\1 M  2/
  

1,2 = R+L Speaker
3   = Mono for voice calls
M   = Mic


Realy no chance for a mic/audio in jack?

Greetings
rob

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To complete the memory questions - and 128 MB RAM? Re: Some thoughts: 1GB flash hack possible? Or why not shipping 1GB directly? Reply-To:

2007-01-25 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Harald!

Thank you for your answer - a litte more information like about the
technical based flash size of 64MB would avoid some speculations... ;)

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Harald Welte wrote:
 If there was a technical way how we could have put larger NAND flash in
 the device, we would have done it.  Unfortunately the S3C2410 controller
 only supports 512byte page sized NAND, and all the large NAND chips have
 larger page size.

To complete this quetionary about memory, what's about more RAM? 
Is there a technical way to use more? (In case that someone need it)

Greetings
rob



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Why not switching automaticaly? Re: Gesture command

2007-01-25 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Foucault!

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Foucault de Bonneval wrote:
 I was thinking of BT profiles and of people who constantly move form
 home to car to office to client ...
 
 So changing BT profile must be easier that calling a number or
 accessing diary, phonebook.
matter of personal priorities... 

 So what do you think about having gesture recognition running to call
 events such as :
 - unlock and lock screen (move up and down)
 - call BT home profile (one up one right)
 - call BT car profile (one up one left)

The PalmPilot had several hacks that allows the user to define
actions  like this to special key strokes - IMHO should the user
be able to define what must be easier than other,,,

Hmm why not switching automaticaly by using Bluetooth scans and 
GPS localisation?

E.g. arriving home and switching of the car will swith your
Bluetooth profile from car to home automaticaly.
And leaving home will start scanning if your car is on.

You see, OpenMoko/Neo1973 will give us much freedom for our
phone. :)))

Greetings,
rob

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Re: intelligent (system-wide) profile switching. gestures and events (Was: Re: Why not switching automaticaly? Re: Gesture command)

2007-01-25 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Declan!

Maybe is a general system-wide profile switching not intelligent
enough? Of course it will be usefull but maybe there will be more
possible.

Declan Naughton schrieb am Donnerstag, den 25. Januar 2007 um 20:58h:

 Reading this, a potentially handy feature hit me, so I'm letting it out.
 
 We should (and we probably will/do.. my nokia 6310 or whatever it is
 does, like pretty much all nokias, and all phones) support multiple,

Just a system-wide profile is working, but not so flexible...

People you will have a date with in the next our could automaticaly
become a higher importance

The Screen has 480x640 pixel - good enough for how many pictures 
with names? So there is no need to stay on the low level of a nokia 6310.

 Also, events should be triggerable between/at specific times, and when
 the GPS system notices you've entered/are in a certain area... a 250m
 radius around my school, say, where I'd like to phone to stay on
 silent.

Consider the chance of a voice menue and answering machine - when you
select that your are busy your selection or your calendar can be used
for a smart voice meneu Hello this is Declan, I'm busy - leave a
message with informations and questions and will care about this in
the next 2 hours - only if it can't wait, press 2.

So there will be no binare black/white solution, more will be possible

So we will play with new posibilities:
- GPS
- VGA coulored touchscreen
- open source
- big creative community
- no filter of a marketing department
- no filter of network provider


Also the list of missed calls
Rob 104 times 20:58h
damm how was this counter this afternoon, 103 or 94?
Did he called now one or 10 times?

And much more on normal phones is unsmart.


We will have much fun and I'm convinced that looking on 
existing phones will not give us so much creativity like
looking on what will be possible withe OpenMoko/Neo1973
and what did I hate most, what did I wish...
what will be smart
And sharing our ideas - reading the ideas and seeing/using the solution
from others will create new ideas it will outperform existing
phone solutions :))

asterisk.org will be a good tool to play on the Neo1973 with new
ideas how to manage calls

We will have much fun, for shure! ;)

Cheers,
rob









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Please no spreading flame wars about licence and free software in every thread!

2007-01-25 Thread Robert Michel

Salve Dave and all others who loves to discuss about eggs from an unborn bird!

I hope that this thread will not blow up like the GNU/Linux discussion,
by people which hasn't consider that Harald Welte is behind OpenMoko nor 
Seans presentation in Amsterdam that making money with OpenMoko/Neo1973 will
be possible.

I'm active on this list since the beginning, as a student very
interested in this project with absolutly trust in Sean and his team
that it will be a very good and open project.

My intention with my mails on this list was starting this mailinglist becomming
active and motivate people to join - to share their ideas. To find
together examples that shows how operfull OpenMoko/Neo1973 could be
when mobil computer, GSM/GPRS, (indoor)GPS, GNU/Linux and good and
creative people come to gether.

Since last Sunday I'm disappointed about this mailinglist - I never
thought that the GNU Linux thread would grow to such a flame war and
including starting become personal.

Huuu - hey did you forget that:
- this project is about creating something new? 
- And that this phone is around communications power based on open
  software?
- That is is about cooperation?

So this means:
- respect for the others,
- patience, e.g. untill this project starts for the public
- and the willingness to join compromises.

Dave Crossland schrieb am Donnerstag, den 25. Januar 2007 um 22:56h:

 On 25/01/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I was
  thinking, if the OpenMoko phone had an easy  way for people to add
  applications like the Widgets, the average user would like it.  ( I
  would be willing to pay the developer after a trial).
 
 I guess the most software will be free...
 
 Many free software projects accept donations, and if you are willing
 to pay the developers after enjoying their software, I feel it is
 important to donate a little.

I've not this feeling about money.

 Free software is about 'without restrictions' not 'without paying,'
 like free speech instead of free beer :-)

Please do not start here a general discussion here - when you will not
strengthen my feeling that some people start writing on this list with
the primary interest to harm OpenMoko/Neo1973. :(((


You are right, I wanted to write that I expect that the most core
software will be available without paying like openwrt or debian,
this is something that I want to stress because I have the feeling
that some people started to be interested in OpenMoko/Neo1973 without
having using GNU/Linux, yet.

And of course IMHO could a Neo1973 coustomer expect that the core software
will be free for him and get updates, especialy security updates. ;)

So my answer was just for those is unclear what we mean when talking about
apt-get install software
that e.g. Debian is a sytem/distribution with 15.000 precompiled packages,
getting all from one source - I choose between 15.000 programs, can get
them, install and use them without the need to pay 1 cent! 
Totaly leagal - and I get a more secure system, like with most of
commercial software - much more secure then normal 
M$+personalfirewalls+viruscans+shareware sytems.

Why do you started a new flame war here and adding the mail adress
of the original poster Marry again in the header?
Do you know what I thought as I wrote:
  It seems that we haven't scare you away with all our ideas maybe
  next version...
It seems that we haven't scare you away with this unsake GNU Linux
thread!

BTW please take a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Welte


When you claim that everybody who is using free software is bind in honour
to donate (money) to the developers, that are you fare away from the
common sence of GNU/Linux.

You can't publish your software under a free licence and than yammer
that the users have the honour to donate.


AFAIK will OpenMoko not become a shareware portal, where the users
get software with the premission to test it for a while and than to
have to pay the developers.

When the user like the OpenMoko software instead of spending money 
telling others about it, helping others to start with OpenMoko, writing
(positive) about OpenMoko, helping with writing the documentation
could be more productive/better 

And short, when you do not see the sence to spend time without paiment
hacking and development should be fun, and about learning new skills.
Also consider, as more populare OpenMoko/Neo1973 will be, as more 
knowledge and reputation you have with OpenMoko as developer, as more 
likly is that you can get a well paid job like frome a agency which 
likes to  have 10.000 devices with a special software solution.


GNU/Linux adult and since years ready that commerial and non-commerial
projects are thrive and prosper parallel and in cooperation and there
are realy many strategies how a cooperation of non-commerial community
and a commercial side will looks like.

I do 100% trust Sean, Harald and the others that they find a strategie
that is fair and fruitfull for FIC

Some thoughts about the real importanted dates for OpenMoko/Neo1973 3GSM World 2007 Barcelona this year ...Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?

2007-01-25 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Marcus,*!

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Marcus Bauer wrote:

 On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 01:53 +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
  Marcus, please watch your tone on this mailing list.
 
 It shall be.
It?

Respect is the absolute basic for communication and cooperation.

 The fact that I didn't answer to that mail doesn't mean I didn't read
 it. Should I now say you obviously didn't follow your own annoucements
 and didn't read the topic you set on IRC because you said the phone
 would come out in January?
 
 But the point is not to get into a fight with you. GPS on a phone is
 still a unique selling point, as is the vga screen. People will be adore
 to have GPS in summer season while travelling. Publishing it in
 September is missing out a whole year.

I don't think that people buy a new phone to going on holyday with the
new phone - AFAIK the most phones are sold November-Januar.

 The competitors wont sleep and there will be at least 20 phones with a
 vga screen and GPS next year.
It's not just the hardware wich count. So it could be an advantage
when thousands of people buy a Neo1973 in Juni and traval with it 
into their hollyday.

 It is the most perfect opportunity for Linux (call it GNU or not) to be
 the market leader. Stop talking about releasing early, just do it. All
 that is needed is a dialing application.

Did you took a deeper look to the roadmap:
2007-02-11   Phase 0: Developer Preview
Why this date?

My guess:
   12-14.February:
   http://3gsmworldcongress.com/
   the most important date of the year for GSM communication.

   So even when 10 devices on the 2007-02-11 would be ready and running,
   it would be great. But just only with dialing application you would get
   laughter in Barcenlona.


   Probably the anouncment that *only* on 11. February the
   devices will give to some developers for free has boosted
   I will have some of the first on this list.

   On the other hand I'm shure that Barcelona is a very important
   date, so in the next week, we, the starting community is not (yet)
   so important, like some good talks in Barcelona.


So even when we have a close contact to Sean, Harald,
and even when there is no big marketing department or network provider
dictating when the device has to be ready, I think all of this guys
are under a high stress to have a smart running device ready untill
007-02-11

I head in mind that they wanted to have 100 preproduced devices,
http://planet.openmoko.org/ is saying about 50.
Small number production are quite expensive.

After the flame ware GNU Linux I fear the next flame on this list.
Marcus your sound was absolutly childish, ego-based and unproductive.


We should support the core developer team now with patience.
They need their full energie to bring this baby to the world
so they should get our full support with _patience_
and no stress, nagging or even abuse like your mail!


On the long term for nobody of us is it important to start in January,
or March - let us trust into Sean and his team to do the right in general,
especialy when to ship the first devices.


I was the first one who became active on this list, 
but I wouldn't worry if I would have to wait longer
then others, IMHO you should share my point/approach as well.


It would be a pitty when Linux GNU/Linux flamewares (at the most wrong time)
wrangling who's getting the first and who's getting one for free would
poisioning the atmosphere here on this list. That would kill creativity, 
motivation and the enthusiasm to share and cooperate.

So please everybody here on this list, while waiting for your device,
could you behave in a way that you are supporting the core team,
instead of dispossess them/their energie?

Thank you!
rob






















 

 Marcus
 
 
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sorry s/FPGA/BGA/g Re: Some thoughts: 1GB flash hack possible? Or why not shipping 1GB directly?

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Justyn!

Justyn Butler schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 00:47h:
 Firstly apologies if I've misunderstood what you're saying.
:) When it' my failing...

 But I think it
 is: can I use the flash chip from inside a USB memory stick to upgrade the
 neo1973 flash?
yes

 Once I get my hands on one of these babies the first thing I'm going to be
 doing is taking it to pieces, and I can pretty much guarantee once we see
 the flash chip we'll be able to find a compatible replacement. But surface
 mount soldering/desoldering is a sensitive process and takes practice, and
 you do not want to be practicing on your $350 phone.
oh, I will :) I many years ago I upgraded my Palm Pilot to 8MB
and did some other practice - so soldering flash will be not easy,
but not inpossible. It's possible to train with the usb flash device.

 So my answer to your question is: perhaps not from your USB memory stick,
 but you will be able to upgrade the flash chip if you've a little experience
 with surface mount hacking.
 
 But I have a more important question: why do you want to do this? 
Why hacking? Because it is possible and it is fun :))

 I don't
 see the 64MB as at all limiting when there's a microsd slot to hand, and 4GB
 microsd cards almost available to buy.
Right, me too. But Seans statment that we shouldn't do expect to much
transfer speed from/to microSD gives anouther reason than just for
fun.

And in every town is some specialist which will be able to solder you
this flash perfectly - in case for people with no experiances, to much
respect or in case that they overestimate their skills and got into
trouble while soldering - as long you do not swith on the power,
nothing (beside of the warranty) is lost.


But the important point in which model/Package Type of the flash will 
be used for the Neo1973 - and I speculated that it will be 
SLC(Small Block) and maybe even FBGA.
And I guess that USB flash memory devices did not use SLC(Small Block)
- or maybe this will be in *very* small devices ;)


 Lastly, what is meant by the comment about FPGAs? I kind of got the
 impression that you're suggesting the main SoC is replaced with an FPGA,
no, mean FBGA instead of FPGA - because there is also the name FPBGA it
is a little bit confusing for me, when I didn't use this terms often.
I should use BGA (Ball Grid Array) and should avoid using abbrevations.

So I know that there are some (private) hardware hackers working even
with BGAs - but when the flash is soldered as BGA it is unpossible for
most of us.

Sorry for the confusion,
rob


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short answer - other feedback is wellcome Re: g quastions

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Eugene!

I'm just a student and normal member on this mailinglist,
so I don't know more than it was written on this list since
November.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Eugene Kozlov wrote:

 Hello
 Can somebody explain
 What is about hardware licensing? Also open source? (shared pcb
 schematics, etc.)

AFAIK is the hardware no open source. But the ICs are today so high
integrated, that the pcb layout isn't the big effort compared with
mobil phone design 10 years ago.

 If there is plans to develop more cheap one to make possibility spread
 this in africa, latin america, china, eastern europe.

Sean and other OpenMoko developer wrote it several time, that the
OpenMoko team and FIC would like to see OpenMoko running on other 
devices, as well. OpenMoko has been presentated as long term strategie
and so the Neo1973 will be just the first stepp.

Ongoing integration of ICs will make the hardware for mobils more and
more smaller and cheaper.

 For me for example mostly interesting simple cell phone with p2p voice
 encryption and i no need other like multimedia features.

Right, I think most of us are not only thinking about multimedia
smartphones for the long term but to start a project, to jump into
an old market just cheaper wouldn't work and the Neo1973 will have
much power to attrac to developer, using it as 

smart phone = mobil computer +OpenOS(GNU/Linux) +SDK +GSM/GPRS +AGPS

The Neo1973 has the power to run the PBX asterisk directly on the phone,
so developing concepts of dail management (white/black lists), voice
menues, answering maschine... is more easyer when the device has power
like the Neo1973.

Based on the Neo1973 experiances IMHO it will be possible to reduce
OpenMoko for cheaper, less powerfull phones.

 And if there is somebody to explain on voice encryption module:
 architecture of processing of a voice stream, existing solution and
 thinks... may be some links or datasheets
 Does voice encryption possible on openmoko? (i have read previous posts
 and dont really understand this)

Ok I will try it - in short:
All GSM-crypto-phones (on the market yet) and hacks are using the 
GSM data call (or will use GPRS/UMTS data connections). There is no
way (or no good way) encrypt connections based on GSM voice calls.

This is because you can't do a secure encrypte before an lossy-based
audio encoder like MP3,speex or GSM


AFAIK:

The mic is analog conected to the audio IC.
The audio IC is (seriell) controlled by the SoC.
The audio IC is analog connected to the GSM chip.

So with the audio IC you could controll the audio level and could mix it
with additional sound - e.g. you can realise an voice menue on the
Neo1973

The GSM chip will do the GSM audio encryption and all GSM communication.

The GSM chip is (seriell( controlled by the SoC.

You can't do voice encryption with your own allgorithm with GSM phone
calls (Beside every GSM connection has it own GSM encryption).

So you need a Data connection like GPRS or using data calls with 9600
Baud. It isn't shure jet, if the Neo1973 will support this data calls,
but it is very likly. Also I don't know if all GSM provider has the
same tariffs for GSM data calls like for GSM voice calls.

Ok, imagine the Neo1973 would support GSM data calls that we will have
a 9600 kBit/s connection and we could run an audio codec on the SoC
like GSM or speex and shoose any encryption allgorithm that we do like
and what takes not to much CPU power.

The phone that you call must support this encrytion as well,
or it could be connected to a computer. 

I'll going to connect my phone I'm using now to the NSLU2 via RS232,
so I can do encrytped phone calls from home to my Neo. From the NSLU2
I have a VPN to my VoIP ATA of my girl frind. She will call me via
VoIP (true the VPN tunnel) and the NSLU2 will make an encrypted phone
call to my Neo.
I hope she and other will use OpenMoko, too, in the near future.


And In short - all GSM-crypto-phones and hacks are using the GSM data call.


 Does voice encryption possible on openmoko? (i have read previous
 posts  and dont really understand this)

I think it will be possible but this means it has to be developed and
not included in the first shipping ;)

Cheers
rob


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hack idea: USB flash memory drive modification- +capacitor(s) +small usb jack

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve,

the Neo1973 has an unpowered small size USB port.
So for beening on the road, it could be nice to be
able to use a USB flash drive directly.

Our first idea was to hack the Neo1973 and give
some power to the port. 

Another idea would to solder some capacitor into the 
memory drive, maybe with a small swith.
The capacitor(s) would be charged like the Neo, via USB power.

I have one cheap USB flash drive with this
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/NANDFlash/SLC_LargeBlock/8Gbit/K9K8G08U0M/ds_k9xxg08uxm_rev10.pdf

Power consumption during operating max 35 mA
Stand by 100 µA

Maybe with a small USB connector to avoid the need for an adapter
to use with the Neo1973?

What do you think? Would this be a good hack?

Greetings
rob

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Re: hack idea: USB flash memory drive modification- +capacitor(s) +small usb jack

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

Robert Michel schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 13:28h:
 Maybe with a small USB connector to avoid the need for an adapter
 to use with the Neo1973?

Just putting the small USB jack on the other side and the
USB memory drive becomes dual use. With small or big jack.
Would this cause any (important) bad reflection problems?

With another switch it will become to use this small hacked
device as adapter to connect a Neo1973 with a PC.
(and would help when the y-connection will have reflection
problems)
:)

rob



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Re: Neo1973 Car kit - some pittfalls due laws possible?

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Andreas!

Andreas Kostyrka schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 13:48h:

  Robert Michel writes:
  
  Since last Dezember it is forbidden for the driver to touch a PDA/mobil
 
 Ok, I think that's a case of wrong translation. It's forbidden to
 pickup the phone. you are quite allowed to touch the phone, explicitly:
NO, please read:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970

There was a court decision that it is forbidded for a driver
to touch a PDA during driving, when this device just have
a GSM module. It isn't counting if he is touching it for
phoning or other interests like MP3 player.

Touching a PDA without GSM module isn't touchted by this 
court decision.

 D: Wenn das Handy im Fahrzeug fest installiert ist und zur Bedienung
 D: nicht in die Hand genommen werden muss, es beispielsweise mittels
 D: Sprachsteuerung oder Tastendruck bedient werden kann, ist eine
 D: Benutzung während der Fahrt weiterhin gestattet.
 
 E: If the mobile is installed in the car, and one doesn't need to take
 E: into the hand to use it, e.g. voice control or button control, the
 E: usage while driving is allowed.

Right - with voice control you don't need to touch it.
This court decision from Dezember changed things a little bit.

Most of the Neo1973s will not be installed in the car.

 Headset and freespeaker need a special e-symbol certification. OTOH,
 the allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis is not voided automatically despite
 other reports from television.
 
 As these rules, especially the EMV ones (about the e-symbol) are
 derived from European legal guidelines, I'd expect that they'll apply
 the same in the whole EU.
 
 Interestingly, the complete article from ADAC does not mention
 anything about external antennas being needed.

I know - I haven't found a source again for this - but I've found
this on a page last Dezember...

Greetings,
rob

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Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Jose!

Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 
08:44h:
 For exemple, we use it only if we are in a game or if the phone is
 ringing...
 
 If the command were shake to phone to answer, I could accidentally
 answer the phone while I play with my kids!

Consider that it will be possible to use a special, typical movement 
to answer the call - not just an uncontrolled shaking.

We had already several ideas for using such a sensor on the list
like this thread:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000151.html
But much more would be possible - so please go on with spreading
ideas :) I hope v1 will have solder points to add a sensor myself
or that all our nice ideas confince Sean/FIC/OpenMoko team that the
v2 must have sensors ;)))

And consider that many new things become possible with sensors
and software - so forget a simple shaking ;)

BTW: I'd like to use a accelerometer or clinometer to look and unlook the
touchscreen.

Greetings,
rob

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Re: hack idea: USB flash memory drive modification- +battery +small usb jack

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

ok, foget my capacitor idea... the capacitor would not
have much power after some hours - and charging it every
day would be 

Robert Michel schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 13:28h:
 the Neo1973 has an unpowered small size USB port.
 So for beening on the road, it could be nice to be
 able to use a USB flash drive directly.
 
 Our first idea was to hack the Neo1973 and give
 some power to the port. 
 
 Another idea would to solder some capacitor into the 
 memory drive, maybe with a small swith.

Small battry will fit, cost 0.50-1 Euro  and will
give up to 70 mA (with two)

 Power consumption during operating max 35 mA
Wait the controller and the rest will also consume some
power...
the Chipsbank CBM2080 will consume up to 29,5 mA with 
USB 1.1 so with a battery hack the USB memory device 
would be usabel for reading/writing for about 1h
- only neccessary on the road without an USB powered
swith - so that would be enought for some weeks/month

What will be the advantage to use this hack instead of using 
another microSD card?

-you can borrow this usb memory drive to somebody who have
 no card reader
-you can do backups of important data on the road without
 removing the battery (and reboot your Neo)
-the hack is cheap and easy

rob

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Re: Neo1973 Car kit - some pittfalls due laws possible?

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Andreas!

Andreas Kostyrka schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 14:49h:

 * Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070124 14:01]:
  Salve Andreas!
  
  Andreas Kostyrka schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 13:48h:
  
Robert Michel writes:

Since last Dezember it is forbidden for the driver to touch a PDA/mobil
   
   Ok, I think that's a case of wrong translation. It's forbidden to
   pickup the phone. you are quite allowed to touch the phone, explicitly:
 
 I'm not a lawyer, but if you read the ticker, the OLG just found that
 a PDA with a GSM module is to be treated as a mobile.

It's not if I read the ticker, I has read the ticker and gave this
link to an articel from 2006-12-04
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970

 Now, the Adac
 article claims that it's ok to use a mobile, if you don't have to pick
 it up. E.g. buttons and voice control are named as an example for
 allowed interactions.

The ADAC is not the law instance in Germany and when you look into
the source of the page of the ADAC:
!-- Publishing Time Stamp: 02.06.2006 11:17:56--

The curt dicision from December is new and extend the older
interpretation of the German Handy-law - the ADAC page is outdated
in this point

  NO, please read:
  http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970

  Right - with voice control you don't need to touch it.
  This court decision from Dezember changed things a little bit.
 It talks about working with a PDA. Not touching.

The court law is about not touching a PDA or phone with a
GSM module.


  Most of the Neo1973s will not be installed in the car.
 But the car kit will come with a cradle. :)

This is not counting as durable installed in a car

  I know - I haven't found a source again for this - but I've found
  this on a page last Dezember...
 
 Technically speaking, the ADAC also mentions that other media claims
 faulty that the ABE is voided. Sorry, Adac is probably one of the
 best source for German rules concerning cars/driving.

Yes, but they doing lobbing for the car drivers - so when there is 
a pittfall intow today law, that the gererall aproval expires when
a GSM mobil is used insinde without an external antenna - the ADAC
wouldn't publish this on that page - it would harm may ADAC members
when the police starts controlling this.


So I just gave the hint that no external antenna is no thechnicaly
problem, but it could maybe by given law becomming a pittfall.
A small connector for an external antenna - or asking some
real experts (not ADAC) would help.

Greetings,
rob


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Ok, one point is cleard - but what is with the external antenna and the general operation lizence of the car?

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Andreas!

Andreas Kostyrka schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 14:58h:

 * Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070124 14:52]:
  I'm not a lawyer, but if you read the ticker, the OLG just found that
  a PDA with a GSM module is to be treated as a mobile. Now, the Adac
  article claims that it's ok to use a mobile, if you don't have to pick
  it up. E.g. buttons and voice control are named as an example for
  allowed interactions.
 
 To cite the law:
 D: (1a) Dem Fahrzeugführer ist die Benutzung eines Mobil- oder
 D: Autotelefons untersagt, wenn er hierfür das Mobiltelefon oder den
 D: Hörer des Autotelefons aufnimmt oder hält. 
 
 The driver is forbidden the usage of a mobile or car phone, if he
 picks up or holds the mobile or car phone ear piece.
 
 Nothing in the court finding, nor in the law talks about touching a
 phone.

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970
-
http://www.olgkarlsruhe.de/servlet/PB/menu/1203495/index.html?ROOT=1180141
(This is a link to the court)


Benutzung eines Palm-Organizers im Straßenverkehr verboten
Datum: 04.12.2006
Kurztext:
Dies hat nun das Oberlandesgericht Karlsruhe in einer
Grundsatzentscheidung entschieden und damit einen mit Telefonfunktion
ausgestatteten Palm-Organizer einem Mobil- und Autotelefon, deren
Benutzung dem Fahrzeugführer im Straßenverkehr untersagt ist,
gleichgestellt.

Please translate someone this parts

Using of a PDA or similar electronic devices for the driver are forbidden
in Germany since this decision of the court in Karlsruhe on 4th Dez
2006.

  Auch die Tatsache, dass der Betroffene zum Zeitpunkt der Fahrt das von
   ihm in der Hand gehaltene und bediente Gerät nicht zum Telefonieren,
   ^
   sondern bei deaktivierter Mobilfunkkarte zum Abfragen des Datenspeichers
   benutzt habe, führe zu keiner anderen rechtlichen Einstufung des
   Gerätes.

Ahh holding in his hand  - so when it is fixed with a cradel it is
still allowed to touch it. :)))
Thank you for your feedback.

Greetings
rob




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consider to use a proxy Re: web browser

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote:
 Is Neo going to have more or less featurefill web browser (e.g. with
 javascript machine, etc)?

Featurefill web browser has not so a high priority on my
whishlist that having a cheap low traffic and fast webbrowsing.
So a Proxy on the Neo and a Proxy on a gateway server, compression
and pictures and javascript/java only on demand would help very much.

I guess in most cases I will use elinks as webbrowser with
OpenMoko/Neo1973

Also caching intersting (news)pages before leaving
home/office/cheap-or-free-internet-connection-area
will IMHO more important than to have a featurefill webbrowser.

Probably there will be 2 direction on the topic webbrowser.

Just my 2 cents
rob

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Squeak for the kids! Use Linux-vserver power before giving your Neo to a kid (or someone else) Re: Idea for OpenMoko: Kid Mode

2007-01-24 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Sam!

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Sam Kome wrote:

 I like this thread, although I'm not giving my $350 phone to my kids!
In case that I would have kids, I wouldn't either,
it is because of the price, but also because it isn't rough enough.

Some more stuff for kids:
see my mail OpenMoko/Neo1973 is pure (r)evolution :))) - do you
recognized the power of multi-touch gesture recognition
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000258.html
Robert Michel schrieb am Samstag, den 25. November 2006 um 04:22h:
 And for inspiration, remember the video about the squeak educational
 software, written in Smalltalk-80
 (just for inspiration - I will not propose any language/enviroment
 to use with OpenMoko ;)
 http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-7680106513348266522q=Squeak
 (19 Min.)
 Imagine to combine something like that with a multi-touch screen :

And while we were looking for a Wifi chip with open driver, we got
a tip to see what chip the http://www.laptop.org project is using.
So for this thread, beside that the OLPC laptop has more Pixel:
Resolution: 1200 (H) × 900 (V) resolution (200 dpi)
I expect that some educatial stuff from OLPC will be usable for
OpenMoko devices.

And linux-vserver could help, that a parent give his Neo1973 to his
childes in the Kid mode without the danger, that they 
- doing expensive calls 
- bother your most important client or your boss
- delete all your important data
or what ever...

Cheers,
rob

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Neo1973 Car kit - some pittfalls due laws possible?

2007-01-23 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

Sean announced a Neo1973 Car Kit:
We have two more kits that will be available (in addition to the
standard kit): A Car Kit and a Hacker's Lunchbox.
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001006.html


I haven't a car (and if, I wouled be no question to choose th H-box)
but I have some doubts about the Car Kit because I heard that most
of cars sold the last 10 years have a gerneal aproval (Allgemeine
Betriebserlaubnis) that would expires when a radio transmitter 
(e.g. of a GSM mobil) is used inside during driving without using
an external antenna.

A German car driver club (BTW the association/NGO with the most members
in Germany) has an overview about law pittfalls in Germany around using
a mobil in a car:
http://www.adac.de/Recht_und_Rat/verkehrsrecht/verkehrsvorschriften_deutschland/handyverbot/default.asp

So I don't know if the expiring of the general aproval of the car is
a wrong alarm (just wron rumor...) or not.

Since last Dezember it is forbidden for the driver to touch a PDA/mobil 
computer with a radio(GSM)modul during driving with his fingers:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970
The law which forbit using your fingers to pick up a call or dial a
inumber in a mobil phone is no expand to a gernal touch forbiddance 
due a judgement. 
Ok that point will be no problem to solve by software later:

you: OpenMoko!
Neo: Yes :)
you: Music, Jazz with funk please
Neo: Ok, here comes Jazz with funk for you

The same for dialingor asking the calendar... ;)

While it has become allowed to use a mobil and GSM transmitter
during flying a plain I fear that the laws could be be missused 
some day to press the consumers to by new devices with external 
antenna for their car - just becouse that someone makes lobbing
to sell more

Could check this somebody carfully - what risk exist today,
before starting to produce the Neo, especialy the Neo1973 car kit?
And of course the car kit (or all Neo1973s)  should have the 
e test symbol, right?

Some more pittfalls possible?

Thanks for taking care,
rob
















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Conference system / poster wall for the FOSDEM Re: Need for a clusterd megaphone via Bluetooth....

2007-01-23 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Sean!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
 On 1/23/07 1:38 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Robert Michel wrote:
  I need some help - it is realy a pitty that Sean
  will not speach on a stage at the FOSDEM 2007
  
  Are you sure? :)
 
 I'm speaking. 

:))) Very fine!  ;)))

Sorry to make some rumour to get this anouncement from you,
but I think you like it to get feedback that the people 
realy wants to hear you ;)


So OpenMoko/Neo1973 will standing on the FOSDEM shedule
quite soon? ;)))

 I just meant that I would prefer to walk around and hang out
 with you guys than sit at a booth all day.

Of course - IMHO no need to stay the full time at the table :)

But in the background of your nice interview I saw a nice Neo1973 
wall (when you have to choose - leave it at home and bring more
Neos with you) but when you can arrange to bring this mobil poster
wall with you it would be great (IMHO)!
You don't have to stand there all day 
- just put a small paper on the table:

be here again at 12:50h 
 and we'll go to lunch 
 togehter :) 

It would be just a good meetingpoint :)

Ah and the jumping person of the poster wall could be used
for designing the t-shirt (or sweet-shirts) togehter
with the slogan Free your phone



Conference System###
How many speaker and mics does the Neo1973 will have?
At the bottle opener side it would be nice to have speaker
and mic - that it would be possible to carry the neo at a neck
like a pendant (jewel) and have a sound system at your head,
but also a free speaking system for phoning...

So with this, it would be possibel to put the Neo1973 on a table
and have a directed free speak system as well. Now with Bluetooth
it could be used as a Conference System. 30 people with a Neo
sitting around a big table. Who's pressing his neo get the speach
(red light) and the other got via Bluetooth the audio signal, but
also Name of the speaker and his speaking time on the display :))

In a big confernce with a moderator, could be an auditorium, the
people which want to ask a question could register themself that
they want to ask and type their quetion to the moderator.
He will got the name (and maybe function of the questioner) and
a little bit later the question topic.
Then he can sort how many questions are there, group them and
call the questioner one by one.
The questioner will not need to got a mic, he will speak into
his Neo (and see how much time he still has for his question ...)


Such a system can recorde the speach and the question automaticaly
on every device so the people could take it directly with them
(for open discussion - some political or business discussion will
not be recorded - they have a mobil ban already)
and external people can join this easyly via GSM or internet and
also ask questions So such a conference system would be handy
also for small meetings.

Greetings
rob
















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Re: OpenMoko-ID

2007-01-23 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Richard!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Richard Franks wrote:

 Will we have something like this? Do we want something like this?

 It could be useful for contact-sharing, authentication,

I would like see a decentralized system that also works
offline - when I meet a person I'd like to give him a key
that allows him to contact me via
- telefon
- email
- jabber
- sftp
- ssh
...
so one dns adress like
login.robert-michel.openmopko.org
or self organized:
login.robertmichel.de
or
login.15231251234.dyn-dns.org

And I like to choose idividuall login adresses for different users
so that no eveal software could grab all IDs and analyse the social
network...


 access to
 services on the OpenMoko site, keeping track of gaming friends,
 referencing file/data resources on the users home 'or otherwise'
 machine etc.

OpenMoko could support personal networking, but I like to see it
that it is not centralized via openmoko.org - I like to see to
encourage people to have full control about their personal contacts.

Greetings,
rob

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Re: Neo1973 Car kit - some pittfalls due laws possible?

2007-01-23 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Joe!

Joe Pfeiffer schrieb am Dienstag, den 23. Januar 2007 um 09:00h:

 Robert Michel writes:
 but I have some doubts about the Car Kit because I heard that most
 of cars sold the last 10 years have a gerneal aproval (Allgemeine
 Betriebserlaubnis) that would expires when a radio transmitter 
 (e.g. of a GSM mobil) is used inside during driving without using
 an external antenna.
 
 Speaking as a bit of a car nut, it's hard for me to imagine how a cell
 phone could affect the car's electronics...

Well, put a mobile close to a speaker or AM radio...

I haven't heard about any misfunction (of an Airbag or...) due a
mobil inside a car but that not the counting point.
When it is true, that the cars only have a general aproval when
there is no mobile phone without an external antenna used inside
then there is the danger, that some day it this fact is not only
sleeping in the law papers, it could used someday from some mobil
producers with external antenna connectors to boost their business
by lobbing that this point has to be controlled by the police.

So I haven't found a right source for this, the adac.de link hasn't
an official law text and isn't about the point general aproval and
mobiles without external antenna - it is only about the official
requirements to free speak systems.
 
 A German car driver club (BTW the association/NGO with the most members
 in Germany) has an overview about law pittfalls in Germany around using
 a mobil in a car:
 http://www.adac.de/Recht_und_Rat/verkehrsrecht/verkehrsvorschriften_deutschland/handyverbot/default.asp
 
 I don't speak German (in spite of my last name); is there an English
 translation for this?

AFAIK no. I posted this topic and link to this list, that some
electrical engineer (who could speak German) would start to care
about this point.

So again - at the moment the police react only when people phoning
without a free speak unit and sometimes when the people using a PDA
during driving.

 Since last Dezember it is forbidden for the driver to touch a PDA/mobil 
 computer with a radio(GSM)modul during driving with his fingers:
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970
 The law which forbit using your fingers to pick up a call or dial a
 inumber in a mobil phone is no expand to a gernal touch forbiddance 
 due a judgement.
 
 As a matter of safety, it turns out that the major problem with using
 cell phones is the distraction, not having your hands unavailable to
 drive (even with a manual transmission).  Car kits do very, very
 little to help.

This is a general ban we have life with - I could imagine a touch
GUI on a Neo1973 which to use would be more safe than using normal 
car radios but there is the general ban (thanks to the unsafe
GUI of normal phones.. and PDAs)

But to be precice - it is still allowed in Germany to use a PDA 
during driving with your fingers - but not a PDA with a GSM module 
- even when the PDA with GSM module is used only for navigation 
or music entertainment.

Lawyers could find out if there is a chance when OpenMoko would have
the power of a vserver and a car modus that intaction with the GSM
part is blocked in the car modus

IMHO this doesn't worth to deal with a beside laws or not it is better
to take care themself and never touch a PDA/Phone/Navigation system
while driving. So halt your car befor touching the screen.
Beside voice commands the Neo1973 could offer a new function via GPRS
- call your partner/your office/your secretary and please her/him to
change your route remotly :))

 While it has become allowed to use a mobil and GSM transmitter
 during flying a plain I fear that the laws could be be missused
 
 When has this become allowed?

About last year?
News from today:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/84079
(Sorry German again)

in short:
The airline Emirates will allow cellular phone calls from february
2007 on. [my comment: AFAIK will these modificated plains a micro GSM cell 
inside
and route this call to the outside - so the mobile doesn't start to
swith to burst with full power to find a cell.]
Ryanair will modificate 50 plains till summer 2007 

Use this link:
http://www.about-electronics.eu/2007/01/16/this-is-your-captain-calling-emirates-allows-cellphone/
But there isn't a gereral permission to use such systems



BTW micro cell - I saw some weeks ago a finish or swedish website
of a university build their own UMTS station - is that allowed 
with UMTS beside GSM to run their own micro station? Something
for Neo1973 version UMTS?


Ok, I wanted only to stress, that there are some action to use mobil phones
in plains and in opposide there could be a sleeping law about mobils inside 
cars.
what someone should check before producing and selling the Neo1973 v1.

Greetings,
rob







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No problem - connect it via USB or Bluetooth Re: keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Robert Michel
Salve quixote!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, quixote wrote:
 It could be relatively easy to add a keyboard if it was simply an added 
 hinged component, i.e. you had much the same shape, but it would be 
 twice as thick (and heavy) for those of us desperate to have keyboards, 
 and it would open on the long side, like the LG9800 or the ROAD phone.
 
 How do other people feel about this?

I'm very happy that it hasn't one because too small 
keyboards are useless!

With keystroking you could reach spead that beats  normal 1-finger 
searching the right key system writer. And to write quick with 10
fingers the keyboard need to be bigger than 15 cm:
 There are cheap and ligthwight USB keyboards that you can add
 when you have to write more text... and via bluetooth it will be
 maybe not so secure - but wireless :))

But I expect that with the multitouch screen newer and better/faster
text input will be possible.

Greetings,
rob
(vim,mutt,elinks user)

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BTW could be the protocolls propritary and with the need to pay licence fees? Re: BT Vehicle Profiles

2007-01-23 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Marcin, *!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:

 Dnia wtorek, 23 stycznia 2007 17:41, Duncan Hudson napisa?:
 1. Get any Linux powered device into car system range.
 2. Run 'hcitool scan'
 3. Identify line which match car system.
 4. Run 'sdptool browse ADDRESS_OF_CAR_SYSTEM|grep Service Name'
 5. Send us output
 
 My sony Ericsson k750i phone reports:
 
 Service Name: Dial-up Networking
 Service Name: Serial Port
 Service Name: HF Voice Gateway
 Service Name: HS Voice Gateway
 Service Name: OBEX Object Push
 Service Name: OBEX File Transfer
 Service Name: OBEX SyncML Client
 Service Name: OBEX IrMC Sync Server
 Service Name: Mouse  Keyboard

This sounds open and not propritrary. But does maybe there any
propritry protocolls out there which would costs licence fees?

Greetings,
rob

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Re: GPS Outage

2007-01-23 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Foucault!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Foucault de Bonneval wrote:
 just two points about GPS :
 - will the Neo have a GPS connexion for an external antenna. Because
 some car glass don't let signals go through and some people I know had
 to buy antennas for Tomtom (pare brise athermique in French)

Interesting point, but AGPS is working even inside buildings
the chip will make about 200.000 calculations parallel and so the
AGPS (assisted GPS) will be able to work even with low signal.
I can imagine that there is still enough signal in such cars.

And no. AFAIK it will have no atenna connector - and I think there
will be no need for it.

 - will the V2 carry an FM reciever to get free live traffic (RDS I
 think) information ?

Should be added on the V2 whishlist ;) 
Is there already one?

 Thanks to all for the ideas you are suggesting !!!
Adding ideas are important to 
- show how powerfull such an smartphone with an GNU/Linux SDK and AGPS
  will be
- and to avoid that companies block innovation by ask for patents for
  ideas - publishing ideas on this list will be a priory against such
  patents :)

So go on to write about your ideas and wishes :)

Real GPS Outage - I would like to see a falling back system
based on GSM cell info, but maybe also some day with digital radio
mondial and accurate time broadcasts so that the device could calculate
the position with the help of mw/ukw radio stations.


Greetings,
rob

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Some thoughts: 1GB flash hack possible? Or why not shipping 1GB directly?

2007-01-23 Thread Robert Michel
Salve,

Just some question and possible answer (I'm no expert):
what will be the difference beween the 64MB NAND Flash memory of the Neo
and 1GB NAND Flash inside a USB memory device I have bought for 12 Euro
like: http://www.priz24.de/product_info.php?products_id=1970 ?

So in case there will no nice surprice and the Neo1973 will be shipped with 1GB,
will it be possible to hack it ourself to 1GB and have an advice like 
buy this USB Flash memory?

I found no hack with buying an usb flash device for upgrading a phone,
a NSLU2 or a MP3 player - only this:
http://www.hackaday.com/2005/03/02/howto-nonviolent-ipod-shuffle-disassembly/
The link to samsung's pdf isn't working anymore

On this page they have a Product Portfolio overview
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/NANDFlash/index.htm
SLC(Small Block) 256,512Mbit and 1Gbit
SLC(Large Block) 1-32Gbit

Hmm 1GB SLC(Small Block) has 63 pins 8.5x15mm
and 1GB SLC(Large Block) has 48 pins 12x17mm

Beside the different Operating Voltage, do I guess right,
that with 12x17mm = 204mm^2 and 8.5x15mm =127.5 size matters
and it the flash chip is a Small Block - and 1GB would be the
maximum for that design that samsung could offer?

So that a hack could only upgrade to 128MB flash?
And that Small Block with 1GBit are not normaly in USB flash devices
and that this chips are much more expensive than 12 Euro?
Ergo it would worth to hack it?

Ah and when the flash will be FPGA like the SoC - there will be no
memory hardware hacking for most of us...

So when there will be no chance for us for hardware hacking the memory,
maybe the restiction has a positive effect:
1. we will concentrate on software hacking 
2. due the limitation we got a motivation to do this efficient 
:))

Does anybody knows more?
Greetings,
rob










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IMHO more a viewer problem and not a display problem one ; ) - better pdf and webbrower Re: Idea for one of the next Neos: Projecting the display via LEDs

2007-01-22 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Uwe!

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007, Uwe Koch wrote:
 it's still always the same problem:
 Mobile phones' displays  are to small (size or resolution) to view documents,
 ebooks, whatever - but they are small to carry with.
 
 On the other hand PDAs are to large to carry with but are a better
 solution for ebooks or reading texts - but is it large enough?

Yes it is - I've read complete books on my Palm 160x160.

 Imagine that you can view pics or even videos, on a projected part
 of the wall.
 Isn't that the solution?

I love reading crazy ideas on this list, and so I'm happy to read
this idea as well, but in this point I don't think it is realistic
to use it inside a mobile phone and to do it. Why?

Ok reading that ebooks on a screen 160x160 wasn't that comfortable,
but it was possible. Remember that the Neo1973 will have a 480x640
resolution - that will be very fine for nearly unformated text.
Display developement will continous and I expect even higher resolutions
that 260 dpi - so than a four-times higher resolution could be used
for a 2-times more text - at some point 8x4 pixel chars will become
to tinny, but with some more pixel small chars on a very high resolution
stay readable... - did you understood me?

Then back to encrease the display size - With thin displays it could be 
done by a second and maybe third display to slide out...

When reading a book not much CPU power is needed, in most cases not even
colour - so when you want to be able to read a full book 12-20h you
don't want a high battery consumption for it:
The display should be tranfelctive or pure refective.


Than projetion on a wall does not work on the road, in the train, bus,
car or plain. When you whant to use it, you said yourself you would
need external power...
When a plain offers external power, it is very likly that it offers
a video input for the display in front of you as well.


Beeing on a conference or in someones office it could be a cool
007-gimick to impress that person but a transfective display will
need less or just the same power, then a LED projection...

When you are somewhere where other computer, monitors and beamers are,
two thinks will help you:
1. a FreeNX connection to use someone else device (Via USB, Bluetooth
   or GPRS) a Java FreeNX client could help to do this without
   installation on the guest display device
2. When the Neo1973 would have USB 2.0 a VGA adapter would be usable,
   but even now you have the freedem to carry a small NSLU2 with a 
   Bluetooth and VGA adapter with you - put it in that office close
   to the Workstation with the big display or beamer and that
   make your show from the Neo1973 via Bluetooth and FreeNX.
   For video let it play on the NSLU2 and your Neo1973 is just the
   remote for this.

   
At last - what is with formated documents like pdf?
Even 1024x640 screens are not the best solution for pdf. 
The designer whish to have a very big white border around
is making me crasy, even with my laptop - so I would like
to see a pdf viewer with the function to cut all this stupid
white spaces and have an manual/automatic optimising to see
the information better on any display when **I** whant this:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000406.html
(my xpdf,webbrowser ideas)


Both - the better pdf viewer and also using FreeNX are ways to
use the power of using free software on the Neo1973 :))
and we can do it, having better solutions, from Neo1973 v1 on ;)

Greetings,
rob



PS: I would expect that the small size beamer will be first external
devices - when they need power and a non moved and good direction
to the wall.








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Let us not forget to give every new one a *very* warm welcome - Let us write a welcome message to all new subscriber! HowTo search the Mailinglist archive:http://www.google.de/search?hl=deq=python+si

2007-01-22 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Jose and all new or old subscriber of this list!

As much as I'm happy that new people join this mailing list,
please consider that some hundreds or thousands people are on
this list and repeating low level question will generate noise.

So again, I'm very happy that many new people find the way
to the Openmoko community mailinglist - but we do have a small
problem - Sean, the project leader and the official people are
very busy to prepare the first hard/software shipping of 
Neo1973/OpenMoko.

So the information for newcommers like
www.openmoko.com 
with
http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html
or even Seans anouncement from Saturday:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/00.html
is not the best way to inform and wellcome new people to give them
the full information and support to join the community.

Just to write Is google down?  will not help the new ones to join,
and it is contra productive it does scare/dismotivate them
to become active and charing productive ideas or solutions.

So we, the OpenMoko community, should write an wellcome article
what information have been collected, which ideas and possibilies
we have thought/find out yet...
so that the newcommers will not flood our list with the same
questions again and again.

 I am working in some pygtk projects and I would like to know if it is
 built-in the device?

When I look on openmoko.com/org this question from Jose
is absolutly understandable - the information about
python and OpenMoko/Neo1973 is hidden in our mail archive.

We could anser, please search like this:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=deq=python+site%3Aopenmoko.org

But that's still not perfect, or just use
ipkg install phython 
would not be the best answer for him -
he has experiances in pygtk, a concrete answer about what is
supported, how much python is used for the shipped first core
functions - call manager, adressbook and how python is 
supported in the SDK and documentation...

A good and informative answer as wellcome to this list,
would make him think:

Hey great - this is an interesting device, but also
a community that I like to join - I have a feeling
that together with this guys it will be a fruitfull
and funny cooperation

So everybody who are on this list for a longer time should
consider that our power will be based on a good and efficent
cooperation - The OpenMoko community could fast grow up to
10.000 or more people who like to chare their ideas and
solutions.

Don't be afraid about 10.000 or more people and don't think
10 good hackers would be more efficent!

So even when our list got be flooded, stay friendly and
please take care to welcome the nee people and give them
a good information and a good feeling - motivate them to
join and help to do this in a efficent way.


One welcome message, written by us - maybe as webpage
on openmoko.org and/or welcome mail for all new subscriber
of the list would be a good thing - IMHO.
To give this welcome message a stronger community feeling
we all could sign this welcome message - maybe with a small
statment about us, ore skills or what we are focusing to
do with OpenMoko/Neo1973.

I don't want to start this thread to have a theoretical discussion
whith tools would be the best (could be done sometimes later), when
you answer, please focus on what we can do until the February 20th
whith our mailinglist, the wiki http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko
to give everybody new a very warm welcome to our community.


Cheers,
rob


PS: We can also write a little more to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMoko
and translate it in much more languages ;)

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Re: Phone for the blind

2007-01-22 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Warren!

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007, Warren Noronha wrote:
 Is there a text to speech feature planned. I ask this cause a while  
 back a friend of mine
 who works with the blind, was looking out for phone to for his  
 students (who are blind)
Do you know this thread:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000610.html
?

The Neo1973 has an handcape that it has no buttons that you can feel,
maby multitouch could blind people to type in:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000417.html

I think the PBX asterisk will be able to run on the Neo1973
- so much interaction can be realized with voice menues, 
scripts and TTS.

Cheers,
rob

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Re: Is python built-in

2007-01-22 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Mikko!

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Mikko J Rauhala wrote:
 On ma, 2007-01-22 at 14:10 +0100, Robert Michel wrote:
  On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
   I seriously doubt it. I found python RPM and it has about 10 MB
   *compressed*. All default Neo1973 software (including kernel and libs)
   must fit in 64MB flash storage...
  
  Why? it have a mountable microSD card (1,2, maybe 4 and more GB)- 
  the 128MB RAM is the counting limitation, not the flash ;)
 
 _Default_ software. The default stuff must fit in without a microSD.

Oh I see much power with 64MB flash and I do expect a skripting language
like python fit on the flash. But not every lib must be inside the
flash, right?

 I'll probably install python too, via BT-PAN or GPRS, but I don't expect
 it to be in there by default. 

Can I ask you why not via install it via USB (Network or USB flash stick) or
from a microSD card (1GB starts at 16 Euro, 2GB at 46 Euro), why via GPRS?


Big flash on a PCB is quite expensive, why not live with having libs,
programms and data on the micro-SD?
I miss more the chance to use a second micor-SD, or more RAM instead of
worry that the 64MB flash storage could be to small.

Nokias 770 has 128 MB flash but only 64 RAM - when I could choose
I would take a Neo with 32 MB flash when it would have 256 MB RAM ;)
Ok Sean said that the mikro-SD data speed is not so fast, so I'll be
happy to have 64MB flash...

I pleased Sean to make selfmade RAM and Flash upgrade possible - e.g.
with an additional signal line but no feedback. Also I fear a 
discussion about more Flash or RAM with the v1 is a little bit late,
or Sean?
What would rise the cost for the device with more RAM or Flash?


Ok, you are right, that it makes sence to think about which version of
python and which libs will be used for the default software - but some
feedback form the FIC OpenMoko team could bring more clearness to this 
point. 

My point was just to stress, that it isn't realy neccessary that all 
fits into the flash.

Happy hacking,
rob













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As I fear - no. Re: io ports besides usb audio?

2007-01-22 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Soeren!

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 will the neo have some other i/o ports forwarded to the outside besides the
 usb port and audio jack? 
AFAIK unhappyly not.

 i'd be intersted if there is one to do spi with a microcontroller.
 
 if not, would there be one iside the case that may be used? are there some
 schematics for the circuit board yet?

No public schematics yet - from early beginning I tried to motivate
Sean and his team to make this device hardware hackable as well,
to solder some sensors and other stuff ourself to the phone.
But I don't now if I was succsessfull with this (for the v1).

 why? - i'm controlling my home via irda or 433mhz radio - music, mp3
 player, lights, everything. (no, not x10 -- completely homebrew + canbus)
 soldering a 433mhz remote into the case would be great. no, the bluetooth is
 no alternative in this case, since i'd have to write a bluetooth-stack
 for the atmega32-16 that controls it.

You are right, build in 433mhz tranceiver would be funny maby in
later Neo1973 versions?

But you could use a device like a NSLU2 with a bluetooth adapter
and then link the IO on the NSLU2 via Bluetooth to your Neo1973
(using the flexibility of Linux)
So you will not have to write a bluetooth-stack for your atmega,
nor by expensive BlueTooth IC working with this controller.

See what all is addable to the NSLU2:
http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddAThirtyFourPinUniversalConnector

I hope you (and other hardware hackers) are not to much disapointed and
do use OpenMoko and Neo1973 for cool and interesting projects and hacks.
As more is be done, as more is populare to do with OpenMoko Neo1973 as
more it is likly that FIC will support more connectors and build in
things in the later generations of the Neo1973.

Greetings,
rob

PS: Also a simple audio in would be great... but I fear the Neo v1
woun't have it either.

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Some IO hack ideas...Re: As I fear - no. Re: io ports besides usb audio?

2007-01-22 Thread Robert Michel
Salve soeren!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am Montag, den 22. Januar 2007 um 17:23h:

 On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 05:00:52PM +0100, Robert Michel wrote:
  I hope you (and other hardware hackers) are not to much disapointed and
  do use OpenMoko and Neo1973 for cool and interesting projects and hacks.
  As more is be done, as more is populare to do with OpenMoko Neo1973 as
  more it is likly that FIC will support more connectors and build in
  things in the later generations of the Neo1973.
 Not at all -- i'll find some... if it all fails, i'll try bitbanging via
 the one that are used micro-sd slot ;)

Hey this sounds good :)))

Quick ideas:
(kiddingSean and all official Neo1973 developer please stop reading
 here - this ideas should give you no reason to do not use the last days
 untill shipping to add some smart solderpoints on the circuit board
 that everyone who will use the SPI, uart I2C or audio-in could hack 
 it and spend some additional jacks to the Neo1973)
 
The external USB could be catched internaly,
the SIM slot could be multiplexed - send a high on one SIM conector
and you could use a small chip to switch this port:
In some of earlier threads are already some ideas around switching
and multiplexing SDIO of the mikroSD and SIM slot
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/60.html

Swithing the SIM port:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000131.html

Happy hacking ;)
rob



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Yes, let as walk into on room and you'll hanging out with us all, with talking a bit about OpenMoko/Neo1973 :)))) - Re: Sean, do you need a table in Brussel for the FOSDEM 2007? ; ) Re: Neo1973 devi

2007-01-22 Thread Robert Michel
Salve Sean!

Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb am Dienstag, den 23. Januar 2007 um 00:41h:

 On 1/22/07 9:07 PM, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  But Sean, when you are at the FOSDEM, do you need a table in BXL?
  Look: http://www.fosdem.org/2007/booths
  Many Open... there, but OpenMoko is still missing. When it belongs
  to a missing table, I could bring one with me from Aachen.
 
 I'm probably just going to be walking around and hanging out with you all.
 But _really_ thanks for the offer!

It mustn't be a perfect presentation with nice slides like in Amsterdam - 
at the FOSDEM you will be able to show us OpenMoko/Neo1973 live.  :)

Hey you've said we are comming so when you are comming to hanging out
and have some fun someone else could tell some storries of your project
and show what it is possible now - and talk with us what'll be possible
in the futur.

Because of A-GPS I nearly can't wait to walking around with a Neo1973
- which api will be usable to script some funny things with it?

But beside walking around and hanging out with us (It seems the offerd
beers have already made you weary and to relaxed), beleave me - at last
when you be asked for the third (or 1 hundred times) in BXL
- Why does it have no Wifi?
or some other things that nearly everybody is interested in you will 
whish to go into one room with us and answer this only once for all.

See:
http://www.fosdem.org/2007/media/video
and think that your words/presentation would be accesible for everybody
- aren't you proud to show the fist Neo1973 running? Maybe with the help
of freeNX very big on a wall with a beamer?


Hey guys, now you see the snafu - you promised Sean the beers to early 
- now  he fears to get drunk hardly on Friday so he will not promisee 
to give a presentation the days after :((

My offered cake (I alread thought to make it in the style of a Neo1973)
haven't work


Maby this helps: Can somebody from sweden bring a bottle like on page 29
http://www.openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_Amsterdam.pdf
to the FOSDEM to motivate Seam to give a speach¹?

@Sean Speach, speach, speach...
:)))
rob




¹other word for presentation ;)

 

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Need for a clusterd megaphone via Bluetooth....

2007-01-22 Thread Robert Michel
Salve!

I need some help - it is realy a pitty that Sean
will not speach on a stage at the FOSDEM 2007

I'm probably just going to be walking around and hanging out with you
all.
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001891.html

But when he'll bring some or many Neo1973 with him, a
software solution could help that everyone will
hear his smaller and bigger stories about OpenMoko
and the Neo1973:

Because the Neo1973 will have 
- Bluetooth free radio connections, yeahaa!!
- a mic
- two 1 watt loud speaker
- AGPS for getting the accurate time

Someone could programm a clusterd megaphone - the
Neo1973 at Seans neck will be the master broadcater
- his mic will be on and the stream will be broadcasted
via Bluetooth.
All others Neo1973 will be relays and loudspeaker 
- the AGPS will help to syncronice the audio output

Ok maybe with 1 ore more relays the delay will become
to long - than the will be the audio output inside a
room (with the help of AGPS) allows only direct receiving
from Seans Neo.

24 Neo1973 would gave 24x2x1Watt=48 Watt cluster blaster.

For the party in the night - we could syncronice our Neo1973
to play the same simultanious (on miliseconds accurate - thanks
to AGPS) and to make some fun - 12 of us could be the group for
right - the 12 others be the left
- or ths cluster blaster would automaticaly organise the best
sectioning.

For corner sectioning 
lll  
l   rrr


rrr lll
rr lll


If someone from the upper right goes to the upper left his
audio output would swith form r to l automaticaly.

So no need to rent a PA for a party anymore, when enough
people with OpenMoko/Neo1973 are invited :)


Cheers,
rob



PS: Sean - even without a speach or Neo1973s it would be 
a plesure to meet you in BXL - no fear that I/we would
expect to much - it is nice that you will come :)



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