Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 5:52 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? If we exchange these ideas it may be possible that we all work together (with smaller and bigger contributions - everyone as he/she likes) to fulfill them... Otherwise I guess we have just to consume what Apple, Samsung, MS-Nokia and others are confronting us with in the next years. May it be open or closed as they like. Or is this where we see our future? Or am I completely wrong in my impression? Phew - a lot of questions and so early in the morning :) Nikolaus Preface: I haven't touched the OM list in probably 2-3 years; I just looked over at a gmail tag for it and noticed holy crap, there are over 9,000 unread messages! So many of these issues may have been addressed in some way. Well, I think a prior issue has really been about expectations and risk. When I got my GTA02, I was really looking forward to a phone. A phone for me is a reliable device that I can use as my primary contact point with the outside world for voice communication. The GTA stack wasn't nearly good enough for that. And that's perfectly ok -- but I was saddened because I expected more. The risk comes in from both the problems in it being a phone (some software stack issues, some battery life problems, some usability issues) and in being as expensive as it was. The combination of its ability to negatively impact my daily life (as a poor phone) and the cost of the device together really hurt. I'd rather it be said upfront (in big block lettering) that it's only good as a secondary device, with the plan to eventually be a good phone. I know some said that on the list, but I also heard that some people were able to make it work for their daily-use phone, and I was too hopeful. Honestly it's just too sweet a dream to expect people (like myself) to make a terribly rational decision about, without really pressing in the facts. The drop to reality I think hurt many of us early enthusiasts and really took away a lot of possible enthusiasm. For the future -- and I'm saying this as someone who'd be interested in coming back into the fold, learning what I have -- I'd like to see more of a hardware-hacker tilt to it. Closer to what we're seeing on the embedded controller accessories side (e.g. arduino et al.), perhaps in being able to directly connect to other projects' expansion boards (arduino shields? I donno much about them, just been watching from the sideline), and/or some analog/digital I/O pins. This way, the device can already be useful and fun, and it'll get a happy community while it's also ramping up its capabilities as a phone. My GTA02 may eventually come out of storage and become a small add-on to my car, with some maps, GPS, and an interface to the on-board diagnostics port to show some engine stats, etc. And that's a perfectly good place for it to end up. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz writes: Have you tried the calendar in QtMoko? It's GPL and can be probably running on X11-QT without much effort. I haven't, I didn't have time to figure out how to port it to X :( ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? Let me list the hopes I had when buying the Freerunner. They're mostly related to middleware, and start with the idea of a programmable phone, not a wireless computer. - tracking of billing in real-time, using a set of user-provided rules. In practice, telling me how many text messages I have left out of my monthly limit - programmable reactions to different calls - reject some callers, voicemail others, record unknown, set custom ringtones - compound communication model - most of the time I don't want to pay attention whether I'm sending a message via mail, XMPP or SMS, whether I call using GSM or VOIP, whether I connect the Internet via WiFi or GSM - what I care about are properties of the connection: reliability, security and cost. When I call someone, I usually want to just get connected, no to think about which program I need to run. Also, this approach lets store all communication history in one place. - a geolocation API (combining GPS, GSM and WiFi information) that will be able wake me up when I reach my train station. Potentially useful for determining reliability of communication (see above). These days what I care about is much more humble: reliable GPS (SHR + tangogps were the best combo I've seen so far), full communication logging (SHR was pretty good at this too), alarm (SHR alarm was wonderful) and PIM: calendar, some form of note making and todo list. Cheers, rhn ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On 04/30/2012 08:21 AM, Al Johnson wrote: Nice list. Comments below... On Sunday 29 April 2012 18:59:34 Benjamin Deering wrote: A threaded/prepared camera hole for attaching a microscope or telescope lense would be nice. Is there any suitable standard for this? Microscope lenses seem to be 23.5mm, but I'm not sure if that would be the correct optics. It looks like someone sells a snap-on macro lense for iphone: http://store.apple.com/us/product/H7758LL/A/olloclip-quick-connect-lens-for-iphone-4s so maybe something could be designed and printed for GTA04 to snap on. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hi, On 28/04/12 11:52, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. I for one, am waiting for news with respect to GTAA04. Will it be working, with good and reliable suspend, no buzz, just works as a reliable phone? So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? No bevel around the screen. Bigger screen. (Ideally the coming flexible screens.) Camera. Flatter phone. HDMI output. What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? First of all, I have the feeling that discussion about the hardware and the distributions like SHR are always quite tied together. But I do see it as two different aspects. First the phone with a working kernel, drivers etc. This will give the basis for whatever software on top of it. What has been great with GTA02 and that I expect even to be better with GTA04 is how people, with time, find place for improvement. Saving some power there, improving framerate here, etc. Tweaking and getting the best out of the hardware. Maybe a middle point, because it might be linked to hardware support, is a fluid interface. It does not necessarily need to have bells and whistle all over the place. If you have a simple clean interface, but very fluid, this is very pleasant. My n900 for example, is not quite fluid. It is not completely snappy. That makes a huge difference to me, regarding user experience. And on the second hand, the distribution. To be honest, I think the first step would be to have something that just works. For daily use. Whatever it is. And not only for geek. Even software developer may be reluctant to have multiple phones: one for real use, and one to tinker with. I don't see why I could not use my real phone and still develop on it. Everyday I work on a computer for development, and still use it as my daily computer. Maybe this could be some kind of recommended/official distribution for the hardware. Raspberry Pi has a recommended image. But other images appeared next to it. But for someone discovering the project, it is clearly identified what is the main path to follow. You have to make things easy for people. Later, getting experience, they might explore other paths. People will gather around that main working path. This will then give momentum for other distributions. -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On 28/04/2012 10:52, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds?
What would you like as future hardware?
* WiFi chip with free firmware
* Baseband processor with free firmware
* Hardware keyboard
* Bigger screen
* Multitouch for pinch zooming
What to see in software
distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for?
Everything on Benjamin Deering's list, plus:
* A calendar app that displays contact's birthdays (with alarm or some
other notification beforehand) and synchronises with a calendar
stored on my server
* A contact app that syncronises with a contact database stored on my
server
* An email client that allows easy access to a large number of IMAP
folders
* Easy mesh networking, possibly using B.A.T.M.A.N.
Bear in mind that I don't have a Freerunner or a Phoenux so I don't know
whether any of these items exist already.
--
Bob Ham r...@settrans.net
Diaspora: r...@pod.settrans.net
for (;;) { ++pancakes; }
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Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hi, I would like to think about it from the perspective of designing a new device. Let us say the device is more like a wearable wrist computer with a Flexible OLED or Eink screen. It can have an additional wireless computational unit that fits in the users pocket. Immediately ahead on a short term I think the next big product by openmoko could be either an open source table with enough RAM and GPU that graphic UI handling is good and the next would be a smart programmable watch computer. I especially think that the watch computer should cell like hot cake.. Another idea is to have windows 7 capable hardware. Best Regards Ranjan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On Tuesday 01 May 2012 09:54:52 Onen wrote: I for one, am waiting for news with respect to GTAA04. Will it be working, with good and reliable suspend, no buzz, just works as a reliable phone? IMO GTA04 now has all of this. I am not using the phone very intensively - just few calls/SMS per day, but so far this works with QtMoko good. No bevel around the screen. Bevel is not bad - it protects the screen. The problem with freerunner's case is that the bevel it too steep near the screen edges. I think the shapeways made case/front part has this fixed. First the phone with a working kernel, drivers etc. This will give the basis for whatever software on top of it. The 3.2 kernel is perfectly stable and has all features needed for normal phone. I have never had any problem with this kernel. Yes, battery life in suspend can be better, but let's hope this can be solved. Maybe a middle point, because it might be linked to hardware support, is a fluid interface. It does not necessarily need to have bells and whistle all over the place. If you have a simple clean interface, but very fluid, this is very pleasant. My n900 for example, is not quite fluid. It is not completely snappy. That makes a huge difference to me, regarding user experience. GTA04 is much much better in this compared to N900. I dont have any recent videos to show this, only this old video running 2.6.32 kernel from slow class 2 SD card: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgZzxmHzWtg Maybe this could be some kind of recommended/official distribution for the hardware. Raspberry Pi has a recommended image. But other images appeared next to it. I am daily using debian based QtMoko v44. I think GTA04 telephony on SHR and Android are not yet finished, but it should not be hard to do it. I hope there will be soon stable SHR and Android images so that you can choose what fits you best. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hello, My dreams for my first smartphone are to be able to : * have an as free as possible phone and use it as main phone * have a good calendar which manages multiple calendars (exactly like dates) and CalDav (which lakes of dates) * have my contacts (phone numbers and e-mails) also with CardDav * read my RSS storms with RSSLounge * have a good alarm that can have multiple recorded alarms (like the one of Android) * have wifi usable and be able to navigate on my favorite websites More generally, I would to be able to have an access to all services of my home server. One note : I would to be able to use/install applications without to have a GMail, Facebook or whatever account. I know it's easy to have that with GTA02, but with development of Android (the one from Google) and iOS, it isn't so trivial... I would also to be proud to say to others : That's just a free smartphone with awsome applications, with Debian (or another distribution) and without spying application inside. Adrien smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Nice list. Comments below... On Sunday 29 April 2012 18:59:34 Benjamin Deering wrote: A threaded/prepared camera hole for attaching a microscope or telescope lense would be nice. Is there any suitable standard for this? GPS program displays heading information from a digital compass, but position information from the GPS (multiple gpsd instances?) I'd go a stage further and propose a 'composite' gpsd device providing location and orientation based on all available sensor information, so the barometer augments the relatively poor vertical resolution of the GPS etc. Most of the estimating engine has probably been implemented in the various UAV projects. PGP encrypted voip (http://zfoneproject.com?) linphone should do this since 3.5.1. It would need some work to tie in better to FSO or qtmoko though (address book, audio switching on answer etc.) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On Saturday 28 April 2012 12:37:01 Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: I'd like to have an open source calendar application, please :) Have you tried the calendar in QtMoko? It's GPL and can be probably running on X11-QT without much effort. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On Saturday 28 April 2012 09:52:45 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? For me most of the dreams became true now. I have open phone which is fast and stable for daily use - and it's quite nice experience. I can now boot between SHR, QtMoko and Android. Btw Android is running on Neil's 3.3 kernel without any additional patches - this is really nice. QtMoko is really fast on GTA04 - even when running on ARM v4 it's much faster then e.g. N900. I am looking for how it will work on armhf. I'd like to have better case and better battery life in suspend. Otherwise I guess we have just to consume what Apple, Samsung, MS-Nokia and others are confronting us with in the next years. May it be open or closed as they like. Or is this where we see our future? Or am I completely wrong in my impression? Please no - GTA04 is the best, i wish more people would realize this. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
The infrared thermometer on my GTA02 has been very useful and it is not something that the iphone guys have. I will probably not be doing any soldering on my GTA04 for a while, but it might be something interesting to add to GTA05. I think the BMP085 in GTA04 is something the iphone guys don't have. Getting some clues for the upcoming weather is very useful when you are completely without signal. A threaded/prepared camera hole for attaching a microscope or telescope lense would be nice. This is probably best done over USB, but it could be done over an I2C adc converter volt-meter ph meter ohm-meter GPS that reliably gets a fix and displays in an app such as foxtrotgps while driving and hiking. I can wake the phone from suspend and find our location on the map before my friends who are using a paper map.(GTA02 does not do this) GPS app is able to download map tiles from my home server if I find myself outside of the area I planned to be (GTA02 does this) Phone tracks barometric pressure overnight while camping to give an indication of the upcoming day's weather. (my GTA02 does this, most do not, GTA04 does) Phone is able to play pre-downloaded podcasts or radio over headphones or speakers in the evening(GTA02 does half of this - headphone issues) Finger-friendly email(qtmoko does this, noone else has it yet) A web browser that works well enough to buy something online using the phone (from a site where I have not purchased before) (noone has this yet) While driving I can hand the phone to a passenger who is tech-savvy but not familiar with openmoko. They are able to wake, unlock, dial, start gps, start browser without much coaching from me. (qtmoko is closest, but noone has this yet) I take the phone from my pocket, wake it up, and take a picture faster than I can take off and open my backpack, take out my real camera, and take a picture. (not sure if anyone has this) I can enable an option so the phone makes noise when it associates with a tower(noone has this) I can reliably write an SMS, click send, and know it will be sent next time the phone has signal(I don't think anyone has this) I can enable Wifi tethering that a friend with a non-linux laptop can use(noone has this) I can keep most of my data on a dmcrypt partition that is decrypted after entering a pin in a gui login screen(noone has this) I can boot from NAND into an OS that runs at low brightness with everything but GSM turned off, access to contacts on my SIM, a dialer, ability to answer, SMS (aurora is working on this) Turn off the tv at my table at the resturaunt using IR (limited range is ok - the TV is at my table, not accross the bar) Plug phone into my car-stereo usb port, stereo sees a mass storage device with my music on it. (GTA02 does this, but file-system corruption follows) Reliable accelerometer screen rotation with bigger keyboard in landscape (this works sometimes on SHR) GPS program displays heading information from a digital compass, but position information from the GPS (multiple gpsd instances?) Easilly switch music output between loudspeaker, headphones, FM transmitter. An app to transmit arbitrary RDS (the text on FM tuner) while iterating over frequencies PGP encrypted voip (http://zfoneproject.com?) Make a small change to a python/perl program using full screen transparent terminal keyboard. Show my friends pictures I have taken on the phone by dragging from one to the next. Using GPS, compass, gyros, accelerometers, camera to display an augmented reality view of the night sky There is about 20 minutes worth of ideas, but I will keep thinking. Ben On 04/28/2012 05:52 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? If we exchange these ideas it may be possible that we all work together (with smaller and bigger contributions - everyone as he/she likes) to fulfill them... Otherwise I guess we have just to consume what Apple, Samsung, MS-Nokia and others are confronting us with in the next years. May it be open or closed as they like. Or is this where we see our future? Or am I completely wrong in my impression? Phew - a lot of questions and so early in the morning :) Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hi all, On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Neil Jerram n...@ossau.homelinux.netwrote: My impression is that most people are impressed only by flashy whole systems, or by ideas associated with extreme(-ish) outdoor activities; and not much by - dreams/ideas that haven't been implemented at all yet - incremental developments and experiments in everyday OS or phone usage, outside the whole system context. There was some Open Source project that I was involved with that emphasized doing over brainstorming. It was said that they had warehoused full of neat ideas, all neatly packed, row after row, all wanting some masterful programmer to come and just implement them. It's easy to dream, but it's a bit harder to make that dream reality. The whole system idea has its merits. In my opinion, what is needed is a good approach to the whole system, rather then a perfect whole system. I think it's hard for non-tech people to get excited about something they can't see, and for most experienced tech people they know too well about vapourware. (I myself was patiently waiting just recently for a portable hardware keyboard, whose site now redirects you to a far less able and satisfying clone of another portable keyboard). I see the Group tour struggling and it disheartens me, because I think this is a very worthy project with a good goal. I've spent some time on suggestions and ideas, and it looks like some of them might be gaining traction (yay!). I hope that we see a GTA04 soon. But, longer term, I am starting to think we have to look beyond phones. There is a large market for phones, but like Ipods and E-book readers, I've seen libre projects come and flounder as they don't have the traction or brand recognition to gain sales and market share. Being several dollars cheaper isn't a saving grace either. :S If we had a community based shell, which could be the platform for many open source hardware devices, then I think there could be much more traction. This would be a GTA05 or beyond device, of course, but could be the basis of an MP3 player. Or a GPS. Or an e-book reader. The idea here is that with one of the child devices being successful, it would drive down costs for other devices (at least on the base platform) and allow for further volume discounts. It's just a crazy thought, but maybe a good one. Thanks, G ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Wow, this is a really impressive list with new ideas I have not yet heard of! And the most interesting thing is that I think almost all can be done and don't have major technical hurdles to overcome. The main challenge is to make them user friendly and bug free. It appears that we more have a lack of active developers doing it. And are missing some coordination to get a complete solution. Maybe we should again think about a more formal organization of the Openmoko.org (software) project? Some Foundation or Association? Nikolaus Am 30.04.2012 um 00:59 schrieb Benjamin Deering: The infrared thermometer on my GTA02 has been very useful and it is not something that the iphone guys have. I will probably not be doing any soldering on my GTA04 for a while, but it might be something interesting to add to GTA05. I think the BMP085 in GTA04 is something the iphone guys don't have. Getting some clues for the upcoming weather is very useful when you are completely without signal. A threaded/prepared camera hole for attaching a microscope or telescope lense would be nice. This is probably best done over USB, but it could be done over an I2C adc converter volt-meter ph meter ohm-meter GPS that reliably gets a fix and displays in an app such as foxtrotgps while driving and hiking. I can wake the phone from suspend and find our location on the map before my friends who are using a paper map.(GTA02 does not do this) GPS app is able to download map tiles from my home server if I find myself outside of the area I planned to be (GTA02 does this) Phone tracks barometric pressure overnight while camping to give an indication of the upcoming day's weather. (my GTA02 does this, most do not, GTA04 does) Phone is able to play pre-downloaded podcasts or radio over headphones or speakers in the evening(GTA02 does half of this - headphone issues) Finger-friendly email(qtmoko does this, noone else has it yet) A web browser that works well enough to buy something online using the phone (from a site where I have not purchased before) (noone has this yet) While driving I can hand the phone to a passenger who is tech-savvy but not familiar with openmoko. They are able to wake, unlock, dial, start gps, start browser without much coaching from me. (qtmoko is closest, but noone has this yet) I take the phone from my pocket, wake it up, and take a picture faster than I can take off and open my backpack, take out my real camera, and take a picture. (not sure if anyone has this) I can enable an option so the phone makes noise when it associates with a tower(noone has this) I can reliably write an SMS, click send, and know it will be sent next time the phone has signal(I don't think anyone has this) I can enable Wifi tethering that a friend with a non-linux laptop can use(noone has this) I can keep most of my data on a dmcrypt partition that is decrypted after entering a pin in a gui login screen(noone has this) I can boot from NAND into an OS that runs at low brightness with everything but GSM turned off, access to contacts on my SIM, a dialer, ability to answer, SMS (aurora is working on this) Turn off the tv at my table at the resturaunt using IR (limited range is ok - the TV is at my table, not accross the bar) Plug phone into my car-stereo usb port, stereo sees a mass storage device with my music on it. (GTA02 does this, but file-system corruption follows) Reliable accelerometer screen rotation with bigger keyboard in landscape (this works sometimes on SHR) GPS program displays heading information from a digital compass, but position information from the GPS (multiple gpsd instances?) Easilly switch music output between loudspeaker, headphones, FM transmitter. An app to transmit arbitrary RDS (the text on FM tuner) while iterating over frequencies PGP encrypted voip (http://zfoneproject.com?) Make a small change to a python/perl program using full screen transparent terminal keyboard. Show my friends pictures I have taken on the phone by dragging from one to the next. Using GPS, compass, gyros, accelerometers, camera to display an augmented reality view of the night sky There is about 20 minutes worth of ideas, but I will keep thinking. Ben On 04/28/2012 05:52 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? If we exchange these ideas it may be possible that we all work together (with smaller and bigger contributions - everyone as he/she likes) to fulfill them... Otherwise I guess we have just to consume what Apple, Samsung, MS-Nokia and others are
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On 04/28/2012 11:52 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? If we exchange these ideas it may be possible that we all work together (with smaller and bigger contributions - everyone as he/she likes) to fulfill them... Otherwise I guess we have just to consume what Apple, Samsung, MS-Nokia and others are confronting us with in the next years. May it be open or closed as they like. Or is this where we see our future? Or am I completely wrong in my impression? Phew - a lot of questions and so early in the morning :) Nikolaus Hi Nikolaus, Well, in my case I'm waiting to finally get my hands on one :). And then contributing with bug hunting, etc... What I dream of: GTA04 + SHR + Integrated SIP client + WiFi + OpenVPN. So far Android has let me down in this respect, which is directly related to it not being as open as people think... Benedikt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. I think your fear is unnecessary. There have also been times with very high activity not so long ago. It's northern hemisphere spring / summer, so people are spending more time outdoors and less with their electronics. Also I guess there will be more activity when the GTA04 group tour devices go out. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? I've written this kind of email 2 or 3 times and got relatively little response. My impression is that most people are impressed only by flashy whole systems, or by ideas associated with extreme(-ish) outdoor activities; and not much by - dreams/ideas that haven't been implemented at all yet - incremental developments and experiments in everyday OS or phone usage, outside the whole system context. Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:52:45 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? A common hardware platform on which different groups can innovate differently. We almost have that thanks to Android pushing a standard which is similar to iApple. The GTA04 is close - maybe close enough. Changes would be: - multi-touch display - 2 more keys. - proximity sensor (so it knows when it is near your head) - multiple cameras - second mic to improve noise reduction - bigger battery The multi-touch is the most important I think. What would you like as future hardware? Nicer case, bigger display. I don't need a hardware keyboard, but some do. What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? I do all my own software - that is the point for me. Though one day I expect I'll get bored of that and want a telephony stack that someone else supports... There seem to be a few options available, which is good. I'm more concerned about the IPC layer that ties it together. I don't like dbus much and I don't like Android binder for quite different reasons. Something that provided the same functionality is a better (that is highly subjective of course) way would be nice. NeilBrown If we exchange these ideas it may be possible that we all work together (with smaller and bigger contributions - everyone as he/she likes) to fulfill them... Otherwise I guess we have just to consume what Apple, Samsung, MS-Nokia and others are confronting us with in the next years. May it be open or closed as they like. Or is this where we see our future? Or am I completely wrong in my impression? Phew - a lot of questions and so early in the morning :) Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:52:45 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. I notice this email was sent to gta04-de...@goldelico.com rather than gta04-own...@goldelico.com I wasn't aware of this list ... should I be? What is it for? NeilBrown signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes: What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? I'd like to have an open source calendar application, please :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? If a solid open phone platform with up-to-date computing power and connectivity features *and* *hardware* *keyboard* appears, I will gladly contibute to software for this platform. Nikita ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
* a user interface based on GNOME Shell with integrated FSO dialer and onscreen keyboard * a good finger friendly browser (best would be Epiphany, because of the great web app support) * Network Manager or Conman? Which GPSd and what about bluetooth * systemd and Wayland, best would be a Debian based system * WAC support (Tizen) or compatibility to B2G Am 28.04.2012 14:37, schrieb Timo Juhani Lindfors: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes: What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? I'd like to have an open source calendar application, please :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Am 28.04.2012 um 14:33 schrieb Nikita V. Youshchenko: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? If a solid open phone platform with up-to-date computing power and connectivity features *and* *hardware* *keyboard* appears, I will gladly Just wondering: what is up-to-date computing power and connectivity features for you? contibute to software for this platform. Nikita ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? If a solid open phone platform with up-to-date computing power and connectivity features *and* *hardware* *keyboard* appears, I will gladly contibute to software for this platform. Just wondering: what is up-to-date computing power and connectivity features for you? This is something that changes over time. Today it is something like ~1GHz CPU, 512M RAM, bluetooth, 3g and wifi. In a couple of years situation will likely change. Another interesting thing is battery life. N900, if almost idle (say, a 5 min usage session 3-5 times a day) could survive a week of wild life without charger. Without suspending! I know it hardly depends on software support, but hardware must at least make it possible. Nikita ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi writes: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes: What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? I'd like to have an open source calendar application, please :) dates ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Neil Jerram n...@ossau.homelinux.net writes: dates ? It has had dead upstream for years and is going to be removed soon from Debian since it is not maintained. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? I desesperately want an usable phone for my use case: 1) free software only on the main CPU. 2)reliable telephony: Without a good SHR forwarder I can't use it at all, even if I forget about the other issues. I also suspect that the CPU is at 1GHz instead of 800Mhz with the 3.2 kernel in SHR, which makes the CPU overheat when it's at 100% too often which makes the phone shut down. 3)music playing in headphones by whatever means(bluetooth or wired, wired preferabily): I still need to resolder correctly my headphones. I would really like to install SHR on NAND to use my fat32 microsd but NAND isn't reliable, it only booted 1 of 2 times last time I tested: -the time where it doesn't boot I've tons of ECC errors -no errors at all when it boots fine. 4)reliable browsing without adds: We(SHR) failed there too: midori segfaults at startup eve doesn't support add blocking chromium doesn't support add-blocking firefox segfault at startup links -g segfault at startup 5)as a bonus: the ability to port applications to it(=not android, GNU/Linux with an openembedded-based build system, SHR fits it). 6)as a second bonus: people writing cool applications for the device(like applications to use the sensor, privacy applications like sms encryption etc... basically a bit like what's in FDroid[1]) So beause of the forwarding issue I'm back to the gta02 even if it has suspend/resume issue(big issues). Qtmoko wasn't really usable for me either(the volume is not loud enough for Italy(very noisy country)) so when I tried it I couldn't ear a thing from the remote person. What would you like as future hardware? I just need an usable smartphone, I don't care that much about the hardware but an n900-like device(800x480 screen resolution and orientation+a keyboard) would be nice because it would make software fit better on the screen. Since we don't have the manpower to fix all software to fit on the gta04 screen, why not adapt the phone instead? some games(wesnoth,supertux etc...) work well with 800x480, and many applications were ported to that resolution for the eeepc701. What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? A forwarder and more implications from the SHR developers that are away and will come back one day(tm). The lack of implication from some SHR developers(not all: some like Martin Jansa really do a good job, Simon Busch also do a very good job even if he's only a freesmartphone.org developper now) really annoyed me up to the point to made me quit SHR officially: things didn't advance fast enough, and no one was there for helping me in some difficult tasks like the forwarding, which made me frustrate more and also take even more work, which creates a burn out... which makes people quit. The quiting had a huge effect the week, everybody was on IRC and really worked on SHR and FSO, after but this week is kind of dead with only the usual minimal set of SHR developers(Martin Jansa) I really wonder what to domaybe I should work on the forwarder again Denis. [1] http://fdroid.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:39:15 +0200 Neil Jerram n...@ossau.homelinux.net wrote: Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi writes: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes: What would you like as future hardware? What to see in software distros? I'd like to have an open source calendar application, please :) dates ? I hadn't heard of dates ... goes looking ... Quite a nice clean interface, but not very finger friendly. And it pops up multiple windows for entering events which doesn't work for me on a small screen (and isn't my favourite interface even on a big screen). Still: shouldn't be hard to write something with a similar interface - I like the zooming idea - that doesn't have those problems. Just need an ical library and a widget library and a few lines of code to join them together :-) What is a good finger-friendly way to enter times? My current toy (which doesn't do ical) has 3 concentric circles of buttons for AM hours, PM hours and 5-minutes - see attached (ugly jpeg because list thought my png was too big). It's not too bad but feels a little clumsy. NeilBrown attachment: cal.jpg signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
