UEC cup was held in 2007/12/01-02 in The University of
Electro-communications, Tyofu, Tokyo, Japan.
27 programs competed. (GNU Go also entered as a guest, so all 28 programs)
First day was Swiss 5R, and second day was tournament by best 16.
And Crazy Stone won. 2nd was Katshunari and 3rd was
Christoph Birk wrote:
I don't think 2200 ELO on the 9x9 CGOS is equivalent
to 'high dan-level' play.
Neither do I. In fact the whole kyu/dan rating system applies
only to 19x19. 9x9 is not deep enough to have have so many ranks.
On a 9x9 board an average amateur beats a pro with handicap 3.
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
If someone has factual data[*] about 9 x 9 performance of
current bots I'll gladly revise the estimate on the webpage
on my own.
Mogo is around 2500 on CGOS:
http://cgos.boardspace.net/9x9/cross/MoGo_psg7.html
In Amsterdam, ajahuang (kgs 6d) played a few games
Where can one play the latest versions of MoGo or other, similarly
strong programs? It is said that some programs are on KGS, but I cannot
find them. How to find them? Is it possible to play against them as a
human on CGOS? I, German 5d, would want to play even games on 19x19,
13x13, or 9x9 to
On Dec 4, 2007 1:42 AM, Petri Pitkanen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is something that the latest Monte Carlo programs have in common
with the best chess programs - and seems to be the right way to
structure a game tree search.Your selectivity should be
progressive. In order to
Mogo is around 2500 on CGOS:
http://cgos.boardspace.net/9x9/cross/MoGo_psg7.html
This implies you believe the ratings didn't shift over time.
http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2007-October/011405.html
http://cgos.boardspace.net/9x9/cross/MoGo_monothreadC.html
The summary looks good to me.
Just to clarify HouseBot's round 3 performance...
HouseBot would normally resign lost games, but it has a check in there
that prevents resignation when it has not thought deeply enough about
every move. 19x19 is such a big board that it does not hit that
threshold
Hi Gian-Carlo,
There is an interesting phenomenon going on when it comes to the
perception and advertisement of game playing strength.
One is that people take time to accept concepts they are used to
thinking differently about. I remember one human (chess) player who
was pretty weak for many
Robert Jasiek wrote:
Where can one play the latest versions of MoGo or other, similarly
strong programs? It is said that some programs are on KGS, but I
cannot find them. How to find them? Is it possible to play against
them as a human on CGOS?
CGOS is designed for computer/computer only.
Where can one play the latest versions of MoGo or other, similarly
strong programs? It is said that some programs are on KGS, but I
cannot find them. How to find them? Is it possible to play against
them as a human on CGOS?
CGOS is designed for computer/computer only.You could modify
On 12/4/07, Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where can one play the latest versions of MoGo or other, similarly
strong programs?
But Mogo is now a free program.You can get a copy, find some good
hardware and play at 9x9 and 19x19.
But the released version is probably not the
What I consider more of an issue is that MoGo seems to be very
sensitive to (undocumented) configuration options. Such issues
probably exist with all engines. It'd probably be smarter to set up a
day where strong bots would connect to CGOS and invite dan-level
players to challenge them.
On 12/4/07, Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What I consider more of an issue is that MoGo seems to be very
sensitive to (undocumented) configuration options. Such issues
probably exist with all engines. It'd probably be smarter to set up a
day where strong bots would connect to CGOS
Don Dailey wrote:
Just a few years ago it was widely held that computers will not reach
Dan level in my lifetime even in 9x9 Go.When it happened in 9x9
go, it was not accepted - the day it happened passed us by and nobody
noticed it. It's probably still not common knowledge and it will
Robert Jasiek wrote:
Where can one play the latest versions of MoGo or other, similarly
strong programs? It is said that some programs are on KGS, but I
cannot find them. How to find them? Is it possible to play against
them as a human on CGOS? I, German 5d, would want to play even games
on
Robert Jasiek wrote:
Don Dailey wrote:
Just a few years ago it was widely held that computers will not reach
Dan level in my lifetime even in 9x9 Go.When it happened in 9x9
go, it was not accepted - the day it happened passed us by and nobody
noticed it. It's probably still not
It's not clear if you are talking about professional Dan level or Amateur
Dan level. I've played the top 9x9 programs at 9x9, and so have several
other amateur Dan players, and I think we all agree that the top 9x9
programs have reached amateur Dan level. I don't think these programs are
as
David Fotland wrote:
You can't add a fixed ELO offset per stone because games between stronger
players have much lower variance in score. A handicap stone is
approximately a score offset (about 7.5 points for the first handicap stone,
and about 15 points for each additional stone).
ELO
David Fotland wrote:
It's not clear if you are talking about professional Dan level or Amateur
Dan level.
I have meant the latter.
I've played the top 9x9 programs at 9x9, and so have several
other amateur Dan players, and I think we all agree that the top 9x9
programs have reached amateur
David Doshay wrote:
When tournament organizers allow and encourage it!
Some (local) European tournaments would allow it. (Some have already
done it.) Encourage - not yet :)
--
robert jasiek
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On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, David Fotland wrote:
It's not clear if you are talking about professional Dan level or Amateur
Dan level. I've played the top 9x9 programs at 9x9, and so have several
other amateur Dan players, and I think we all agree that the top 9x9
programs have reached amateur Dan
At the Cotsen Open the encouragement is a prize for the best program.
It has not been very satisfying for me to have SlugGo win it the past
two years by the default of being the only program present. I would
be much happier to have others show up too. I have heard from one
programmer who says he
Robert Jasiek wrote:
Where can one play the latest versions of MoGo or other, similarly strong
programs?
Would it be possible to publish the MonteGNU code?
If yes, then a few dan-players could play each at least 20 games
against it and publish their results. That would allow for a
rough
Rémi Coulom wrote:
Hi,
13x13 StoneCrazy is currently connected to CGOS (computer go room). It
will stay there for about 24h.
Rémi
So far, it lost 1 game against 3d, and 2 games against 2d. In this game,
it started a nice ko fight at move 69 (but lost):
Relatively speaking chess eval of adding piece values together and
doing nothing else is far closer to optimal evaluation function that
what is currently available in Go.
A GOOD go evaluation function probably needs to incorporate lookahead...
Through most of the game, the difference between a
On Nov 13, 2007 2:44 PM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 13, 2007 3:32 PM, John Tromp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is there any known way to get the best of the both worlds? :-)
Yes, you can generalize pseudoliberties by extending them
with another field, such that if the
Some of the MonteGNU code was just released on CVS. Check out Gnugo's
development pages.
Terry McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED]
They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind
masters; but they mean to be masters. -- Daniel Webster
- Original Message
From:
On Dec 4, 2007 3:57 PM, Zach Wegner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 13, 2007 2:44 PM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 13, 2007 3:32 PM, John Tromp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is there any known way to get the best of the both worlds? :-)
Yes, you can generalize
Let's make a wild guess.What if I made the web site report
approximate strength using the following formula:
dan = (elo - 2300) / 100
So a 2400 player is 1 dan, a 2500 player is 2 dan etc.
Here is a table:
2300 - 1.0 kyu
2310 - 0.9 kyu
2320 - 0.8 kyu
...
terry mcintyre wrote:
Some of the MonteGNU code was just released on CVS. Check out Gnugo's
development pages.
Don't expect that code to do better than 2000 on CGOS though
(mgtest2). The remaining code used by MonteGNU is still too messy.
/Gunnar
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Don Dailey wrote:
note: this is only to estimate the playing strength relative to a 19x19
player since there is no real system that makes sense for 9x9. I
would simple put this on the crosstable web pages in parenthesis. e.g.
Rated: 2410 (1.1d est.)
I
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Gunnar Farnebäck wrote:
terry mcintyre wrote:
Some of the MonteGNU code was just released on CVS. Check out Gnugo's
development pages.
Don't expect that code to do better than 2000 on CGOS though
(mgtest2). The remaining code used by MonteGNU is still too messy.
That's
not to put too fine a point on it, but estimating dan ranks via
9x9 games is a bit silly. it doesn't actually capture any extra
information about the program, since there's no such thing as
a 9x9 rank to compare with/against, much less a dan rank.
ELO works well because it's strictly arbitrary
MoGo. But it seems that it hasn't been playing recently (anyway, you
would have had no idea of the settings and hardware used). You could
play against it on your own hardware to understand it's strength
against a human, and let it get a CGOS rating using the same hardware
whenever you are not
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Chris Fant wrote:
MoGo. But it seems that it hasn't been playing recently (anyway, you
would have had no idea of the settings and hardware used). You could
play against it on your own hardware to understand it's strength
against a human, and let it get a CGOS rating using
But it does have real meaning. People talk about Dan level 9x9 go
programs and so all I'm looking for is a way to instrument this in a
meaningful way.
If a 9x9 program is estimated to be 2 dan on CGOS, it means a typical 1
dan player will lose to it and a typical 3 dan player will beat it.
Christoph Birk wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Chris Fant wrote:
MoGo. But it seems that it hasn't been playing recently (anyway, you
would have had no idea of the settings and hardware used). You could
play against it on your own hardware to understand it's strength
against a human, and let
Maybe it should be an official tournament on KGS. We should probably
make it invitation only for bots and open to 1d+ from KGS. For
invitation, maybe it should be 2200+ ELO bots?
Looking at http://cgos.boardspace.net/9x9/standings.html, that seems to be:
GreenPeep (2550)
Zen (2472)
MoGo (not
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Don Dailey wrote:
Yes, that would work.
Some humans also could play on CGOS (just for a while) to establish
a conversion from CGOS-ELO to human-ranks.
It would be awkward at best. I could build a client to do this, but
the human would have to be willing to sit and play
I saw that you made an illegal move!
The way to do this is to the take the viewing client and hack it.
Then you would get a nice gui and legal move testing (at the least the
package to do legal move testing is there even if it's not being used.)
If you are typing your moves in manually,
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Don Dailey wrote:
It would be awkward at best. I could build a client to do this, but
the human would have to be willing to sit and play games at the moment
they were scheduled.
You are right ... it's very awkward. I lost one game by typo
and another by time.
Christoph
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Don Dailey wrote:
But I don't really want humans playing except as a
special experiment.
I agree. But it's an interesting experiment ...
Christoph
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I was wondering if gogui could be used - it would have to emulate a go
program somehow. But gogui is a controller, not a program.
However I know it comes with all kinds of filters to do various
things. If it can be made to act like a go engine (where a human is
the brains) then it could be
How does it deal with other gtp commands sent to it?Perhaps it can
be used. Maybe Christoph can experiment with it.
- Don
Rémi Coulom wrote:
Don Dailey wrote:
I saw that you made an illegal move!
The way to do this is to the take the viewing client and hack it.
Then you would get
Le mardi 4 décembre 2007, Don Dailey a écrit :
The only issue is that I don't know if GnuGo is representative of 19x19
to 9x9 go strength. I am interested in knowing how a human 19x19
scales down to 9x9 play. It's well known that programs scale up poorly.
Ah yes, i forgot this :)
My
Le mardi 4 décembre 2007, Christoph Birk a écrit :
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Alain Baeckeroot wrote:
For 9x9 ELO works better. For 19x19 it's less clear cut.The
handicap system appears to be a good system at 19x19 and has the very
nice merit of allowing grossly mismatched players to
Anyone recommend a good Go GUI for Linux? Not for bot matches and suchs but
just to play gtp based engines.
For chess I use xboard and it's wondeful, would love to find a similiar tool
for Go.
-Josh
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Sorry to duplicate my question, I've been digging and digging in previous
threads trying to find the answers that were posted.
Wish computer-go had a google search :)
Anyway, what is the minimal commands required to get an engine online via
gtp?
I've been working hard and hope to have an alpha
GoGui is written in Java. So you should be able to use it in Linux.
On Dec 4, 2007 7:36 PM, Joshua Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyone recommend a good Go GUI for Linux? Not for bot matches and suchs but
just to play gtp based engines.
For chess I use xboard and it's wondeful, would love
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 19:45 -0500, Joshua Shriver wrote:
Wish computer-go had a google search :)
Put this in Google's search box:
site:http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/ foobar
Of course, replace foobar with your search terms.
-Jeff
___
If you download cgos3.tcl, the code made it pretty clear which commands
are used.
Here is what I see:
list_commands
boardsize
clear_board
play
genmove
quit
optional are:
time_settings
time_left
-Don
Joshua Shriver wrote:
Sorry to duplicate my
I just tried gtpdisplay and it worked the first time!The only
problem is that I tried to make an illegal ko move.
On linux, I just put gtpdisplay as the name of the program and it
worked.
It looks like it could also be used to watch your program play on CGOS,
just provide a program
You must also avoid suicide moves! I also tried playing on top of an
existing stone and it didn't allow that - but any other kind of illegal
move (by cgos rules) is passed through and causes a CGOS forfeit.
There is a config file option, perhaps there is way to configure it to
a particular
Hi,
What should we be doing to get programmers to bring their bots to the
Congress in Portland in 2008?
The AGA is formally not that program friendly, but there can be
events for bots, and hopefully events for humans against bots. I am
sure that there will be tournaments that will not
9x9 games is a bit silly. it doesn't actually capture any extra
information about the program, since there's no such thing as
a 9x9 rank to compare with/against, much less a dan rank.
I disagree. In my studies of 9x9, over a number of years, the human
19x19 rank generally carries over to 9x9.
Darren Cook wrote:
9x9 games is a bit silly. it doesn't actually capture any extra
information about the program, since there's no such thing as
a 9x9 rank to compare with/against, much less a dan rank.
I disagree. In my studies of 9x9, over a number of years, the human
19x19 rank
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 18:23 -0800, David Doshay wrote:
What would get YOU to bring your program to the Congress?
Free trips back and forth on a teleporter. Or at least 3 unlikely
events (out of the US Go Congress's control) to occur.
It's probably be more viable for people to send their
Hi Christoph,
I have been thinking about making a version of Goanna (~2250 on CGOS)
public, once it plays in a human friendly way.
At the moment, it is nearly unusable for fun human vs computer matches
because of a lack of opening book (slow first few moves), and
ridiculous endgame play.
Don Dailey wrote:
you can still
judge the quality of your opponent by looking at his 19x19 KGS ranking.
Rather by looking at his real world ranking. A human real world rank may
be off by 1 while a human KGS rank may be off by 6 ranks.
--
robert jasiek
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