[Computer-go] Last Call: Handicap 29 Prize

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

many years ago I had offered a 1,000-Euro prize
for the first program to beat the old MFoG (1998-
like version) at 29 handicap stone.

The offer ends on December 31, 2020.
So, this is a last call for those who
want to earn the money:

https://althofer.de/handicap-29-prize.html

Cheers, Ingo.

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[Computer-go] thx!

[Ingo Althöfer]

 

Dear Hiroshi,

 

thank you for keeping us informed.

 

Cheeers, Ingo.

 

PS. Congrats to the "Golaxies"!

 
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

the final round of the codecentric Freestyle League
is over.

Here are the results:

AI Sensei - Chris the brain & friends  2-0
Karlsruher Allerlei - Oktgopus  1-1 (had been played on Sunday already)
Saargenhaft - DeepGreen 0-2
free: Oldenburger Ozas


And the final standings:

1. Oktgopus Paderborn 11-1
2. Karlsruher Allerlei 9-3

3. DeepGreen Darmstadt+ 8-4
4. AI Sensei Hamburg 8-4

5. Saargenhaft (Saarbruecken) 4-8
6. Chris the brain and friends (Freiburg) 1-11
7. Oldenburger Ozas 1-11

First and second rank are unshared.
Congratulations to the Paderborn team for their victory!

Observe: all teams come from German cities with Universities
with strong computer science departments.

Cheers, Ingo.

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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League - Great Final

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Steve,

> BTW: there's a fairly straightforward way to evaluate the skill
> level of the games on the whole.

Can you elaborate on that?


> Is there any interest in that, or just the results?

Of course I/we would like to have that.

I would even like to include that in the report on the Freestlyy League.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League - Great Final

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

the final round of the codecentric Freestyle League is scheduled
for Wednesday, April 24.
https://www.althofer.de/codecentric-freistil.html

However, the pairing that decides about the title, is
Karlsruhe - Paderborn,
and will start already on Sunday, April 21, 18:00 Central
European Summer Time.

Place is "Deutsche Ecke" on KGS.

Spectators (of any shade between White and Black) are welcome.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League - after round 6

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

round 6 of the codecentric Freestyle League has been played.
Unfortunately, two of the teams forfeited their matches:

Karlsruhe - Oldenburg 2-0  (without fight)
Saarbruecken - Freiburg 2-0 (without fight)

However, the top pairing took place, and by some sort
of surprise, the Paderborn team won rather clearly against
Darmstadt:

Darmstadt - Paderborn 0-2

**

This means that the standings before the final round are:

1. Oktgopus Paderborn 10-0
2. Karlsruher Allerlei 8-2

3. DeepGreen Darmstadt 6-4
4. AI sensei Hamburg 6-4
5. Saargenhaft Saarbruecken 4-6

6. Chris the brain and friends (Freiburg) 1-9
7. Oldenburger Ozas 1-11

The final round will be playd on Wednesday, April 24, with the
pairing Karlsruhe - Paderborn deciding about the master.

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] List problem ...

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hiroshi,

thanks for your interesting recent postings on the AlphaZero paper(s).
I think referees told them to back their claims by more data.
So the paper has larger test runs than the arxiv preprint.

**

Indeed, our maioing list has a severy problem. I also
do not get mails any longer, but have to look up
in the archive always.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League: Round 6

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,
tension is grwoing high in the German Freestyle League.
Next Wednesday round 6 is played on KGS in room "Deutsch Ecke".
Spectators are welcome, with comments in any language.

Currently Paderborn (Oktgopus) is leading with 8:0,
ahead of Darmstadt and Karlsruhe (8:2 each).

The pairings in round 6 are:
Saargenhaft - Chris the Brain & Friends
Karlsruher Allerlei - Oldenburger Ozas
DeepGreen (Darmstadt) - Oktgopus  (a night of truth)

Paderborn, Darmstadt, and Karlsruhe each are still
able to win the League out of own power.

https://www.althofer.de/codecentric-freistil.html

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Feature wish for LeelaZero

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,
in particular to GCP and other LeelaZero developers,
currently the games of the European Pro tournament (in Jena)
are transmitted on KGS. Some users give LZ percentages, but ...
it seems that LZ does not give expected scores (and deviations) 
for the game end.
(CrazyStone had such a feature years ago.)

LZ's value as a teaching tool would be highly increased,
if such a feature (expected scores + deviations) would
be displayed.

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League: Results of Round 5

[Ingo Althöfer]

Saargenhaft (Saarbruecken) - AI Sensei (Hamburg) 0-2
DeepGreen (Darmstadt) - Oldenburger Ozas (Oldenburg) 2-0
Oktgopus (Paderborn) - Chris the brain & friends (Freiburg) 2-0

free in this round: Karlsruher Allerlei (Karlsruhe)

Table after round 5:

1. Oktgopus Paderborn 8-0
2. Karlsruher Allerlei 6-2
3. DeepGreen Darmstadt+ 6-2
4. AI sensei Hamburg 6-4
5. Saargenhaft 2-6
6. Chris the brain and friends Freiburg 1-7
7. Oldenburger Ozas 1-9


Round 6 to happen on Wednesday, April 03, 2019,
with the pairings:

Karlsruher Allerlei - Oldenburger Ozas
Saargenhaft - Chris the brain & friends (Freiburg)
DeepGreen - Oktgopus (Top pairing))

free: AI Sensei  

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] 0.5-point wins in Go vs Extremely slow LeelaChessZero wins

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

recently, Leela-Chess-Zero has become very strong, playing
on the same level with Stockfish-10. Many of the test players
are puzzled, however, by the "phenomenon" that Lc0 tends to
need many many moves to transform an overwhelming advantage
into a mate.

Just today a new German tester reported a case and described
it by the sentence "da wird der Hund in der Pfanne verrückt" 
("now the dog is going crazy in the pan", to translate it word
by word). He had seen an endgame: Stockfish with naked king,
and LeelaZero with king, queen and two rooks. Leela first
sacrificed the queen, then one of the rooks, and only then
started to go for a "normal" mate with the last remaining rook
(+ king). The guy (Florian Wieting) asked for an explanation.

http://forum.computerschach.de/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=10262

I think there is a very straightforward one: What Leela-Chess-Zero
with its MCTS-based searc) performs is comparable to the
path all MCTS Go bots took for many years when playing winning
positions against human opponents: the advantage was reduced
step by step, and in the end the bot gained a win by 0.5 points.
Later, in the tournament table, that was not a problem, because
a win is a win :-) 

Similarly in chess: overwhelming advantage is reduced by lazy play
to some small margin advantage (against a straightforward alpha-beta
opponent), and then the MCTS chess bot (= Leela Zero in this case) 
starts playing concentratedly.

Another guy asked how DeepMind had worked around this problem
with their AlphaZero. I am rather convinced: They also had this
problem. Likely, they kept the most serious examples undisclosed,
and furthermore set the margins for resignation rather narrow (for
instance something like evaluation +-6 by Stockfish for three move
pairs) to avoid nearly endless endgames.

Ingo.

PS: thinking of a future with automatic cars in public traffic. The
0.5-point wins or the related behaviour in MCTS-based chess would mean
that an automatic car would brake only in the very last moment
knowing that it will be sufficient to stop 20 centimeters next to the
back-bumpers of the car ahead. Of course, a human passenger would
not like to experience such situations too often.
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[Computer-go] Next round of Codecentric Freestyle League

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

Round 5 of the codecentric Freestyle League is about to start.
Each team consists of two accounts where computer and
human intelligence together play Go.

The pairings are

Saargenhaft (Saarbruecken) - AI Sensei (Hamburg)
DeepGreen (Darmstadt) - Oldenburger Ozas (Oldenburg)
Oktgopus (Paderborn) - Chris the brain & friends (Freiburg)
free in this round: Karlsruher Allerlei (Karlsruhe)

Darmstadt and Oldenburg will battle it out already this night,
starting at 20:30 h CET.

The other two pairings will start on Wednesday, March 06, at 20:30 h.
All games to be played in "Deutsche Ecke" on KGS.
Spectators are welcome. Discussions will be
in German and English, perhaps also in other languages.

The table before round 5 looks like this:

1. Paderborn 6-0
2. Karlsruhe 6-2
3. Darmstadt 4-2
4. Hamburg   4-4
5. Saarbruecken 2-4
6. Freiburg 1-5
7. Oldenburg 1-7 

Naive people might think that Paderborn is complete
favorite against Freiburg. But the situation (behind
the curtains) is rather complex.

Ingo Althoefer.

German link:
https://www.althofer.de/codecentric-freistil.html
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Re: [Computer-go] A new ELF OpenGo bot and analysis of historical Go games

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hiroshi,

thanks a lot for your explanation!

Best regards, Ingo.

> Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Februar 2019 um 23:24 Uhr
> Von: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] A new ELF OpenGo bot and analysis of historical Go 
> games
>
> Hi Ingo,
> 
> > * How strong is the new ELF bot in comparison with Leela-Zero?
> 
> from CGOS BayesElo, new ELF(ELFv2) is about +100 stronger than Leela-Zero.
> 
>  Rating  Network size(Resnet layers x filters)
> LZ_05db_ELFv2_p800  355420x256
> LZ_d13c_ELFv1_p800  353020x224   second release ELF
> LZ_62b541_ELF_p800  350020x224   first release ELF
> LZ_204_05d1_p400343340x256   latest(2019-02-13) LZ
> 
> p800 means 800 playout/move.
> p400 means 800 playout/move.
> Leela Zero's playout is half. Because its net size is double.
> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/bayes.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
> 
> On 2019/02/17 1:29, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
> > Hi Remi,
> > thanks you for the link.
> > 
> > A few questions (to all who know something):
> > 
> > * How strong is the new ELF bot in comparison with Leela-Zero?
> > 
> > * How were komi values taken into account when analysing old go games with 
> > help of ELF?
> > 
> > * How often does ELF propose moves played by AlphaGo (for instance in the 
> > games
> > with Fan Hui, Lee Sedol, and in the sixty games from December 2017)?
> > 
> > * Does ELF understand that the strength of AlphaGo increased from October 
> > 2015 to May 2017?
> > 
> > Cheers, Ingo.
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> > 
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Re: [Computer-go] A new ELF OpenGo bot and analysis of historical Go games

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Remi,
thanks you for the link.

A few questions (to all who know something):

* How strong is the new ELF bot in comparison with Leela-Zero?

* How were komi values taken into account when analysing old go games with help 
of ELF?

* How often does ELF propose moves played by AlphaGo (for instance in the games
with Fan Hui, Lee Sedol, and in the sixty games from December 2017)?

* Does ELF understand that the strength of AlphaGo increased from October 2015 
to May 2017?

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

a central quote from the Leela Github blog at
https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/2157

Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>> So, practically, I'll keep the current 256x40 running as 
>> is, which probably has a (few?) month(s) to go with a last 
>> learning rate drop or playout increase, at least, but for 
>> the next leap ahead someone else (person or team) will have 
>> to step up and do the necessary work:

So, we are standing at a fork.
How will the Leela Zero project proceed?
Who is willing to take central positions in that process?

Many thanks to Gian-Carlo for putting so much energy into
the project! And many thanks to his wife and family for 
accepting his dedication to computer go and computer chess!
It has helped our scene so much.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Computers wins against pros in 9x9

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hiroshi,

thanks for the information.

It seems that the archive of computer-go is down,
or is it even the whole server?

Cheers, Ingo.


> Gesendet: Montag, 17. Dezember 2018 um 11:01 Uhr
> Von: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] Computers wins against pros in 9x9
>
> Hi,
> 
> Two Japanese Pros played 10 games against two computers in 9x9.
> And Pros lost by 2 wins, 6 losses, 2 draws.
> 
> Two Pros are Hirofumi Ohashi 6dan and Nobuaki Anzai 7dan.
> Two computers are Natsukaze and Kishin they are winner and runners-up in CGF 
> open 2018.
> 
> Natsukaze  result from human side
>   game 1  Black:Anzai   win (on time)
>   game 2  Black:Ohashi  loss  W+2
>   game 3  White:Anzai   loss  B+2
>   game 4  White:Ohashi  win   W+R
>   game 5  Black:Anzai   loss  W+4
> 2 wins 3 losses
> 
> Kishin
>   game 1  Black:Anzai   draw
>   game 2  Black:Ohashi  loss  W+R
>   game 3  White:Anzai   draw
>   game 4  White:Ohashi  loss  B+2
>   game 5  White:Ohashi  loss  B+2
> 3 losses 2 draws
> 
> SGF
> http://www.yss-aya.com/20180728sgf.zip
> 
> Komi 7.0, Chinese rule
> Time is
> human   : 5 minutes + add 5 sec/move. (fishcer rule)
> programs: 450 seconds
> 
> This event was broadcasted by Igo-Shogi Channel last month.
> 
> Validation! AI 9x9
> http://www.igoshogi.net/igo/special/ai9roban.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
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[Computer-go] Lasker Zero

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,
I foound an interesting historical document.

Emanuel Lasker (1868-1941) was Chess World Champion
from 1894-1921. He also learnt Go in 1907/08 from
his name sake Edward Lasker in Berlin. In his auto-
biography ("Chess Secrets", from 1951) Edward Lasker 
wrote this process, for a photo of the text see

http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6992.0;attach=6854;image

So, Emanuel Lasker tried to learn the game in Zero-mode.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League - Round 3 done

[Ingo Althöfer]

Round 3 ist done.
Here are the results:

Oktgopus (U Paderborn) - Saargenhaft (Saarbruecken)  2-0

Chris the brain & friends (Freiburg) - Karlsruher Allerlei (U Karlsruhe)  0-2
an epic battle, including long byoyomi drama.

Oldenburger Ozas - AI Sensei (Hamburg)  0-2
DeepGreen (Darmstadt) free.


New chart:
1. Karlsruhe  5-1
2. Paderborn  4-0
3. AI Sensei  4-2
4. Darmstadt  3-1
5. Saarbrucken  2-4
6. Freiburg   0-4
7. Oldenburg  0-6

Round 4 on January 30, 2019, after a
long Christmas break.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League - Round 3

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

round 3 of the Freestylel-Go-League is ahead.

On Sunday, 02 December 2018 the pairing
Oktgopus (U Paderborn) - Saargenhaft (Saarbruecken)
takes place. Start at 20:00 h local time.

On Wednesday, 05 December 2018 the pairings
Chris the brain & friends (Freiburg) - Karlsruher Allerlei (U Karlsruhe)
Oldenburger Ozas - AI Sensei (Hamburg)
happen. Start at 20:30 h.
Without opponent in this round: DeepGreen (Darmstadt)

All games on KGS in "Deutsche Ecke".

Ingo.

--
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Re: [Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League: Round 2 on November 07

[Ingo Althöfer]

Here are the results from round 2.

Chris the brain & friends - DeepGreen  0-2
Oldenburger Ozas - Saargenhaft  0-2 (by default)
AI Sensei - Karlsruher Allerlei  1-1
free: Oktgopus
 
Table after round 2:
1.-2. DeepGreen 3-1
1.-2. Karlsruher Allerlei 3-1
3. Oktgopus 2-0
4.-5. AI sensei 2-2
4.-5. Saargenhaft 2-2
6. Chris the brain & friends 0-2
7. Oldenburger Ozas 0-4

So far, Oktgopus (Paderborn) and Chris & friends (Freiburg)
had only one match each.


Round 3 is scheduled for December 05 (Wednesday), 2018.
Startint time 20:30 Middle European Time.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League: Round 2 on November 07

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

round 2 of the the codecentric Freestyle League is ahead:
Start of play is on Wednesday, November 07, 2018,
on KGS in "Deutsche Ecke". The pairings are:

Chris the brain & friends - DeepGreen
Oldenburger Ozas - Saargenhaft
AI Sensei - Karlsruher Allerlei
free: Oktgopus

Starting time 20:30 h Central European time.


In my eyes
AI Sensei (Hamburg) - Karlsruher Allerlei 
is the top match.


http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6915.0;attach=6785;image

https://www.althofer.de/codecentric-freistil.html

By the way, AI Sensei offers a computer-aided (LeelaZero !)
game commenting service:
https://ai-sensei.com/

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League: thougts after round 1

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

one week after round 1 of the codeccentric
Freestyle League I have sorted my thoughts.
Of course, I know only the team captains and
not their internal structures.

Until yesteday it was my opinion that there
are mainly three types of teams: outsiders,
boxes. and brains.
(This pseudo-classification does not include 
the team of Freiburg, which had a bye in round 1.)

Boxes are those which bank on hardware power
(+ Leela and LeelaZero ?!). This might be the case
for the computer science powerhouses (University of)
Paderborn and (University of) Karlsruhe.

Outsiders? Perhaps those (Oldenburg and Saarbruecken?!) 
who were capped in round 1 by the boxes.

And what about Darmstadt (DeepGreen) and Hamburg (AI Sensei)?
Darmstadt is perhaps "mixed pickles" with tendency
to brain. And until yesterday I was rather convinced that
Hamburg was THE brain team (around Benjamin Teuber). But 
then some Go afficionado from Hamburg (Toby) meditated in
Germany's Go forum about renting cloud power for Go analysis. 
Perhaps Hamburg is a hidden cloud box?!

Let it be, what it is. Next round on November 07
will include the top duel Karlsruhe vs Hamburg.

Ingo.

PS. Unfortunately, the "Jena International Go School"
(JIGS) learnt too late about the event. They applied 
on October 03, but the deadline had been August 31 ...
Perhaps in next year's season.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League, round 1

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

the first round of the Frestyle League was played last
Wednesday. Here are the reults:

Oldenburger Ozas - Oktgopus 0-2
AI Sensei - DeepGreen 1-1
Karlsruher Allerlei - Saargenhaft 2-0
bye: Chris the brain & friends 

So Paderborn (=Oktgopus) and Karlsruhe are the first
two leaders in the league. Not just a surprise, as
both cities have universities with strong Computer Science
departments. Co-favorites Hamburg (AI Sensei) and
Darmstadt (DeepGreen) shared the points.

Round 2 is to be played on November 07. Karlsruhe will
have to battle with Hamburg on that evening.

Ingo (League Manager).


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Re: [Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League 2018/2019

[Ingo Althöfer]

A preliminary website for the codecentric
Freistil-Liga 2018/19 is online now (in
German langugage).

https://www.althofer.de/codecentric-freistil.html

Cheers, Ingo.

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 03. Oktober 2018 um 21:49 Uhr
> in the German Go scene an experimental team league
> will start next week. Here are the most important
> parts of the rules:
> 
> "Freestyle" means that a team may use any sort of help:
> hardware and software, human expertise, books, ...
> Teams may even use Go bots in autonomous mode.
> 
> Play is on KGS, in "Deutsches Eck".
> 
> Each team only has to give the name of the team leader
> (and the name of its KGS accounts). Team leaders are
> NOT asked to reveal their team structures.
> 
> Team matches are played at two boards. Komi = 7.0 and
> Japanese rules. Thinking times 60 minutes base time
> plus Byoyomi with 15 stones in 5 minutes... 
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[Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League 2018/2019

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello everybody,

in the German Go scene an experimental team league
will start next week. Here are the most important
parts of the rules:

"Freestyle" means that a team may use any sort of help:
hardware and software, human expertise, books, ...
Teams may even use Go bots in autonomous mode.

Play is on KGS, in "Deutsches Eck".

Each team only has to give the name of the team leader
(and the name of its KGS accounts). Team leaders are
NOT asked to reveal their team structures.

Team matches are played at two boards. Komi = 7.0 and
Japanese rules. Thinking times 60 minutes base time
plus Byoyomi with 15 stones in 5 minutes.

Seven teams have registered. For some teams the
KGS account names are known already:

1. Klaus Petri (Darmstadt) - Name: DeepGreen

2. Sebastian Heuchler (Paderborn) - Name: Oktgopus
Oktgopus1
Oktgopus2

3. Birger Holtermann (Karlsruhe) - Name: Karlsruher Allerlei
botornot
meandmybot

4. Martin Ruzicka (Freiburg) - Name: Chris the brain & friends

5. Benjamin Teuber (Hamburg) - Name: AI Sensei

6. Lars Kleyda (Oldenburg) - Name: Oldenburger Ozas
lars33
Tichu

7. Cedric Holle (Saarbrücken) - Name: Saargenhaft
Saar1
Saar2


The first round will take place on Wednesday, October 10,
with start at 20:30h local time (currently MEST). The 
pairings are

Oldenburger Ozas-  Oktgopus
AI Sensei   -  DeepGreen
Karlsruher Allerlei -  Saargenhaft
free: Chris the brain & friends

Spectators (with friendly behavior in the chat) are welcome.
The seven rounds of the league will be completed at the end
of April 2019.

League manager is me, Ingo Althoefer.
Have fun, Ingo.

PS. The name "codecentric Freistil Liga" comes from the
name of the sponsor. The codecentric AG is giving the
prize money (in total 500 Euro).
https://www.codecentric.de/
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[Computer-go] now live: Human+Computer Pair Go

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,
just now at the EGC an exhibition game is running,
with transmission on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5OXzI6Vp8g

Team Black is Hayashi Kozo (6p) + LeelaZero
Team White is Manja Marz (European Women's Champion) + LeelaZero

LZ is operated by GCP.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Computer Olympiad 2018 in Taipeh

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

the Computer Olympiad 2018, organized by the ICGA, takes
place in Taipeh (Taiwan) and has started on July 07.

There is a record number of programs participating.
Here is a list of all registrations:
http://www.tcga.tw/icga-computer-olympiad-2018/en/#tsignup

Interestingly, Go 19x19 has only two participants,
and Go 9x9 only three.

The chess events are decoupled in this year. They take
place in Stockholm (likely starting on this Friday).

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Tencent World AI Weiqi Competition will be held in June 23 and 24

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Hiroshi,

thanks for all the information, in particular also
for the sgf of the top game.

And one question: Is there a real gap between
FineArt and Leela on the one hand and all the
other participants?

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] thumbs crossed ?! [offtopic]

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Richard,

>> I think you meant "cross my fingers".  
 

yes that is the American way to formulate is.
Our Chancellor, however, prefers "thumbs pressed".
Look here:
https://www.bz-berlin.de/data/uploads/2014/07/merkel_1404473813-768x432.jpg

In the photo, look at the single white Go stone
and the single dark Go stone.

Angela Merkel is a master of Aji Keshi (my opinion).

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Tencent World AI Weiqi Competition will be held in June 23 and 24

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hiroshi,

thank you for spreading the news.
Please, keep us informed about the
results on this weekend. (As sign of thankyou I will press 
my thumbs for the Japanese soccer team in the Wordchampionships.)

Cheers, Ingo.


> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2018 um 20:33 Uhr
> Von: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] Tencent World AI Weiqi Competition will be held in 
> June 23 and 24
>
> Hi,
> 
> Tencent World AI Weiqi Competition will be held in June 23 and 24.
> 
> 11 programs will play.
> 4 from China. Fine Art, and so on.
> 3 from Japan. AQ, Raynz, Aya.
> 2 from Korea. DolBaram, Baduki.
> 1 from Belgium. Leela Zero
> 1 from America. ELF OpenGo
> 
> Top 8 programs will play round-robin on FoxGo next month.
> Top 4 programs will play final late July.
> 
> Tencent World AI Weiqi Competition (in Chinese)
> http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2018-06-21/doc-ihefphqk9706598.shtml
> 2018 Tencent World AI Weiqi Competition (in Chinese)
> https://txwq.qq.com/act/game/index.html
> Rule
> http://weiqi.qq.com/special/109.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
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> Computer-go@computer-go.org
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[Computer-go] Pair-Go with human+computer teams

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

Pair-Go with mixed human+computer teams seems to become
a fashion. In the forthcoming European Go Congress
(Pisa) there will be an exhibition game on August 08:

Manja Marz (European Women Champion) + LeelaZero
vs
Hayashi Kozo (6p, Japan) + LeelaZero
Gian-Carlo Pascutto will be present in Pisa for that event.

Now we learned that there were already similar games
in China: Woman Pro + Bot  vs  Woman Pro + Bot.

Here is a link
https://pttnews.cc/860c112816
(however, not all Browsers will open it outside of China.)

At least, he is a reduced photo from such a game:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6836.0;attach=6546;image
The persons in the background are "only" operating the bots.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Interview with GCP

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

in the European Go scene an interview with
Gian-Carlo Pascutto is going viral:
https://www.eurogofed.org/?id=205

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Cronus open-sourced

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

a friend sent me the following bit of information:

**
cronus has been open-sourced.
https://github.com/Tencent/PhoenixGo
**

Make something out of it!

Ingo.

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Re: [Computer-go] Message by Facebook AI group

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Gian-Carlo,


> FYI, we were able to convert the Facebook network into Leela Zero
> format, which should make it a lot easier to play against or test with.
> 
> https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/releases
> https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/1329

Thanks for your information.

 
> > I think this action will speed up "the" development.
> 
> Depends on what "the" is, I guess.

It was meant from the viewpoint of an
outside observer/commentator.

In Germany we have a proverb:
"Konkurrenz belebt das Geschaeft."
Roughly translated:
"Competition enlivens the bbusiness."

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] E-Doping in online Go

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

unallowed computer help has become a hot topic 
in the Go scene recently. It is not easy to check,
if a player is using computer help during his or
her online games.

On the next weekend, there is the North-American
qualifier tournament for the next Youth Go World
Championships:
http://www.usgo.org/news/2018/05/ing-world-youth-qualifier-may-6/

Quote from that document:
Skype video will be required for all games.

The president of the German Go Association (DGoB)
comments on this:
"For players with high criminal energy this will
be a low hurdle, of course. But ... immerhin."

The World Youth Championships itself will take
place in Bacharach (at river Rhine, in Germany)
from July 18 to July 23, 2018.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Message by Facebook AI group

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

in the German computer go forum a link to this
message by the Facebook AI Research group was posted:
https://research.fb.com/facebook-open-sources-elf-opengo/

I think this action will speed up "the" development.

One personal quote from the acknowledgement paragraph
of that message:
> We thank the LeelaZero team for their high quality work, 
> and our hope is that open-sourcing our bot can similarly 
> benefit community initiatives like LeelaZero. We would 
> additionally like to thank Mr. Kim Jiseok, Mr. Shin Jinseo, 
> Mr. Park Yeonghun, and Mr. Choi Cheolhan of the Korean 
> Baduk association for their eager participation, 
> challenging our bot through a series of games.

Chers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Leela Zero on 9x9

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi GC,

thanks for the information, and thanks to user
sbf2000 for his work on 9x9.

I would like to learn the name of the honorable person,
but of course it is his or her right to stay anonymously.

> ... Leela Zero now tops
> the CGOS 9x9 list. This seems to be entirely the work of a single user
> who has ran 3.2M self-play games on a single GPU over the course of 3
> months. He has made the resulting weight file available.
> 
> https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/1291
> 
> There was an interesting trick done with switching komi, which you can
> read about above.

This would give a nice report, for instance
for the ICGA Journal.

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Science Conference within EGC 2018

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

there is a science conference within the
European Go Congress in Pisa. The exact date
is Wednesday, August 08, 2018, for the talks.

We got some high-calibre speakers. The program
can be found at:
https://egc2018.it/en/conference.html

**
One explanation on the human-computer pair Go
exhibition:
Three entities are involved: humans A and B
and a computer program C.
A and C form team Black,
B and C form team White.
So, the same program C belongs to both teams.

The turn order is
A B
C B
A B
C B
A B
C B ...

C will be operated by a neutral referee.
A and B will NOT have access to the search screen of C.

It is not completely determined, bute the likelihood is
high that C will be either Leela or Leela Zero.
We hope to find interesting players for the roles of A and B.

For the program committee,
Ingo Althoefer.
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[Computer-go] Leela Zero has won tonight

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

Leela Zero has won the exhibition game against HayLee this night.
Here are some links.

For replay on OGS:
https://online-go.com/game/12063810

logfiles of Leela Zero:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cbaduk/comments/84sbop/server_log_file_from_the_haylee_leela_zero_match/

Youtube video (73 minutes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qVlpJ_fWzo

Congratulations to Gian-Carlo and all supporters of
the Leela Zero project!

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] LeeHay vs Leela Zero tonight

[Ingo Althöfer]

Announcement by Hajin Lee aka Haylee:
https://www.facebook.com/gohaylee/posts/1471089503013875

Ingo.


Sorry for the many typos in my 
Hawking posting. I was not concentrated
after that sad new.
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[Computer-go] Stephen Hawking

[Ingo Althöfer]

Sad news:
Srephen Hawkings did today (on Pi Day).

RIP  (rest in pi) !
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[Computer-go] On the Origins of Frisbee Go

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

Robot Frisbee Go is my great dream project.
Progress is slow, but in the meantime I was at
least able to clarify the origins of classic 
Frisbee Go (without robots).

Things started in the year 2000 in the European
Go Congress in Strausberg (40 km east of Berlin).

https://www.althofer.de/origins-of-frisbee-go.html

Thanks to Thomas Brucksch for sharing his memories!
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] On proper naming

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Darren,

> > but then it does not make sense to call that algorithm "rollout".
> > ...
> 
> Speaking of which, why did people start calling them rollouts 
> instead of playouts?

it comes from the Backgammon scene, where for instance
rungames in the endgame were estimated by dozens or
hundreds of rollouts in the 1970's in the New York
scene.

Even further back, already Emanuel Lasker proposed
rollouts (in Backgammon) in his classic book "Brettspiele
der Voelker" from 1931. However, on p.239 Lasker does not
call it "rollouts" but "Versuche machen" ("making experiments").

To my knowledge, this is the oldest proposal to use
rollouts in 2-person game play.

**

In 1988, Bruce Abramson proposed Monte-Carlo runs in
2-person games without chance. However, he could his
approach "expected outcome". He even tried to apply
it to chess.
https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Bruce+Abramson

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] On proper naming

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Dan, hi friends,

> There is actually no randomness in the algorithm, just like AlphaZero's...

but then it does not make sense to call that algorithm "rollout".

**
In general: when introducing a new name, care should
be taken that the name describes properly what is going on.

* When Bernd Brügmann introduced the name "Monte Carlo Go"
back in 1993, it did very properly describe the behavior
of the algorithm.

* When Rémi Coulom introduced the term "Monte Carlo Tree Search"
back in 2005, this described very well - for more then ten years
of development - what the algorithm was doing. (Although, over 
the years it became obvious that the rollouts had only a small 
degree of randomness in strong engines.)

* When the AlphaGo team used the name "MCTS" to describe AlphaGo's
search without rollouts but with NN-evaluations instead, things
became problematic. AlphaGo still used the tree search part of
MCTS, but no longer in combination with rollouts.

* And when now someone (Dan) looks at alpha-beta with single-node
extensions instead of iterative deepening, "rollouts" is a completely
misleading term.

I can not predict if Dan's approach will be successful. In any
case, he should look for another proper name to describe it.

Ingo.

PS. One example from the history of astronomy: For many centuries
seven planets were known (from Mercury to Saturn). And suddenly Galilei
got a (little) telescope (in 1609/1910) and discoverd four new
planets [sic!] around Jupiter. It took a while until these moons
were not called planets any longer. And, when in 1801, asteroid Ceres
was discovered and in the following years/decades a good handful of other
asteroids, they first were called planets, later planetoids, and
nowadays finally asteroids. So, there the are chances to repair
wrong names - but it costs energy, and in the meantime confusion
has happened.
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[Computer-go] Pegasus - Cronus - Hercules ?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Out of couriosity: Who are the programmers
behind Pegasus, Cronus, and Hercules?
(These three bots are in the top group
on CGOS.)

May they be different bots from the same group?
Are the authors from Greece?

Questions over questions ...

Ingo. 
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Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Dan,

I find your definition of "Alpha-Beta rollouts" somewhat puzzling.

> Alpha-beta rollouts is like MCTS without playouts (as in 
> AlphaZero), and something that can also do alpha-beta pruning.
 
I would instead define "Alpha-Beta rollout" in the following way:
You have a fast alpha-beta program (with some randomness) for 
that game, and a rollout means a quick selfplay game of this
program.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Game-independent AlphaZero approach

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Remi, hi friends,

> For the moment, my main objective is shogi. I 
> will participate in the World Computer Shogi 
> Championship in May. 

Good luck! Please, keep us informed when
the tournament is running.


> So I am developing a game-independent AlphaZero framework. 

I am hoping several people are working in this direction.

Explanation: In 1998 "Zillions of Games" (by Mark Lefler and
Jeff Mallet) was made public. It is a multi-game program. The
user only has to formulate the rules of a game in a script
language (zrf), and then the engine is playing this game, based
on alpha-beta with an evaluation function where each piece 
gets its (local+global) mobility assigned. (Mark Lefler is
co-programmer of current top chess engine Komodo.)
 
In 2008, Cameron Browne published his Ph.D. thesis on "automated
game design", where a new game is evaluated by selfplay of an
alpha-beta engine. 

It would be fantastic to have new programs which learn to play
newly designed games in AlphaZero mode. This would revolutionize
the design of new board games.


Side question: Is someone investigating AlphaZero approaches for
non-zero-sum games of for games with more than two players?

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Out of couriosity ...

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

looking at boards of different sizes, may there
be some threshold d, such that the Zero approach
is in particular successfull for all boards larger
than dxd und less successfull for boards smaller 
than dxd? Or does duccess increase gradually
with board size?

Second question: Go may also be played on boards
with even side lengths. Will it make a big difference
to use for instance some 19x19-Zero bot
on 17x17 or 18x18?

Ingo.



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Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Von: "David Doshay" 
> Go is hard.
> Programming is hard.
> 
> Programming Go is hard squared. 
> ;^)

And that on square boards.
Mama mia!

;-) Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Using 9x9 policy on 13x13 and 19x19

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello Hiroshi, hello friends,

a very interesting discussion. Thank you for all
your contributions.

> 19x19 policy is similar strength on 13x13 and 166 Elo weaker on 9x9.
> 9x9 policy is 390 Elo weaker on 13x13, and 491 Elo weaker on 19x19.
> It seems smaller board is more useless than bigger board...

It would be interesting to see the main weaknesses
of nets for wrong board sizes.

My conjecture is: 9x9-policy might have big problems
with ladders on 19x19-board.

***
It would also be interesting to see how weak 
fully trained ZERO-programs are from wrong board sizes.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] MCTS with win-draw-loss scores

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

what is known about proper MCTS procedures for games
which do not only have wins and losses, but also draws
(like chess, Shogi or Go with integral komi)?

Should neural nets provide (win, draw, loss)-probabilities
for positions in such games?

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] MiniGo open sourced

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

GCP wrote:
> ... 
> > Of course, in the end, strength is the best way to tell that your 
> > implementation is correct :)
> 
> In other words, do not take "correct" as necessarily meaning "matching
> the published research".

Chrilly Donnninger, one of the computer chess gurus in the 1990's and
the early 200x's (project Hydra) had an expressed opinion:
"Those who know, do not publish.
And those who publish do not know."
He himself violated this rule in the early 1990's when he published
a price-winning paper on how to implement null-move search correctly.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] MiniGo open sourced

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Brian,

thank you for your posting and for publishing
the MiniGo code.
 
> I'm happy to announce MiniGo is now open source.
> https://github.com/tensorflow/minigo
>
> We're ... aiming for a correct, very readable implementation 
> of the AlphaGoZero algorithm and demonstration of Google 
> Cloud / Kubernetes / TensorFlow. ...

Hopefully, others will use your code also for attacking
other games with simple rules, like Clobber, ConHex (by
Michail Antonow), or Yavalath (by Cameron Browne/Ludohex).
 
> A few Googlers, including myself and Andrew Jackson, have 
> been working on this, but we're otherwise completely 
> unaffiliated with DeepMind and the AlphaGo project.
 
May you tell us, in which Google lab you are working?

Thanks again for your contribution!
Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Pisa: International Conference on Research in Mind Games

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

this is the Call for Papers for the Conference
"Research on Mind Games", to take place during
the European Go Congress in Pisa, Italy.

Keynote speaker will be Gian-Carlo Pascutto, head
of the Leela Zero project.

There exists a video appetizer on the European Go Congress 2018:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7wqT4DLsp0

See you in Pisa, Ingo.


**
International Conference on Research in Mind Games
August 7-8, 2018 at the EGC in Pisa, Italy

Both original and review papers are welcome from all fields of research in mind 
games. In particular, from mathematics, computer science and social sciences.
The conference will take place during the 62nd European Go Congress and the 1st 
World Mind Sport Championship in Pisa. It will cover all mind games, e.g. 
Chess, Droughts, Shogi, Bridge, Amazons, Poker, Backgammon, Blokus etc. The 
scope of the conference includes, but is not limited to the topics:

- Computer Play by Neural Networks
- Learning Games in Zero Mode
- Evaluation of Games by Computer Programs
- Game design with computer help
- Cheating in Game Play (E-Doping) and Cheater Detection
- Solving Games
- Games and Education
- Serious Gaming
- Games and LEGO®
- Optical Recording of Games
- Computer-Aided Analysis of Master Games etc.

Keynote Lecture:
Gian-Carlo Pascutto (Belgium), head of the Leela Zero project, 
an open source project following Google’s Alpha Zero.

Tentative schedule 
August 7: Social dinner 
August 8: Presentations, discussions, Pair-Go with mixed human-computer teams; 
Participants can take part on an excursion on August 9. (Details will be 
announced.)

Venue: Congress Palace, Pisa (Italy), 
within the European Go Congress 2018 (see www.egc2018.it)

Conference home page:
The papers of the conference will be published online on 
mind.uni-trier.de and www.egc2018.it

Conference fee:
The conference itself is free of charge, dinner and excursion are not included, 
participation on further events at the European Go Congress requires 
registration, see www.egc2018.it for details.

Important Dates:
Deadline for Submission of Extended Abstracts (pdf, 1-2 pages): March 31, 2018
Notification of Acceptance: May 2, 2018
Submission of Full papers and updated version of the extended abstracts: June 
30, 2018
Submissions by email to: ingo.althoe...@uni-jena.de


Main organizers:
Prof. Ingo Althöfer, University of Jena Prof.
Marc Oliver Rieger, University of Trier
 
Local organizing committee:
Carlo Metta, University of Florence
Prof. Maurizio Parton, University of Chieti-Pescara
Dr. Francesco Potortì, CNR-ISTI, Pisa
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Re: [Computer-go] WIRED is reading our list

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

Ke Jie did play a second handicap game against Fine Art
and won convincingly (in 72 moves).

There is a translation of an interview given by him
at reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/7suord/on_ke_jies_2_handicap_games/?st=jcuhzf2y=f5737baa

Most of all I like Ke Jie's words in the final paragraph:
> In the face of AI, what is pride?
> Can you eat it?
>
> All I know is that I love Go.
> I am passionate about Go.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] WIRED is reading our list

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

Tom Simonite, who is writing for WIRED, seems to be
following our list. At least he contacted me after
my posting from Saturday, and included my statements
in an article:
https://www.wired.com/story/tencent-software-beats-go-champ-showing-chinas-ai-gains/

One small correction: I am NOT a go expert (indeed my rank,
mostly inactive, is about 18-kyu); but I feel more competent
on computer go questions ;-)

Ingo.


> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2018 um 07:50 Uhr
> Von: "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
> [Computer-go] Breakthrough: FineArt beating Ke Jie with 2 Handicap Stones
>
> Hello in the round,
> 
> it seems that Chinese company Tencent with their
> Go project FineArt has achieved a fantastic breakthrough: ...
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Re: [Computer-go] Zen giving handicap against pro players

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hideki,

> >So, were the handicap games played at "normal" komi values
> >(6,5 or 7,5 points) ?
> 
> No, but "standard" 0.5 pts.  Zen supports very wide range of 
> komi; about -20 to +30 (mainly for the users of 
> Tencho-no-Igo).

that is very interesting information.
In particular, because from the sgf of FineArt's handicap
games I read that they had komi=7.5 (opr 6.5) in "all"
their handicap games.

My impression was they needed this exact komi
value to "please" their neural net.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Zen giving handicap against pro players

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hideki,

>>> On Yugen-no-ma, Nihonkiin's online Go site, many (mainly 
>>> young) professionals have played more than 200 two-hc games 
>>> against Zen and its winrate is greater than 70%, AFICR.
> 
>>* Is that the "normal" Zen version, or one that is
>>specially tuned for handicap games?
> 
> Not special.

So, were the handicap games played at "normal" komi values
(6,5 or 7,5 points) ?

Regards, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Zen giving handicap against pro players

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hideki,

> >> On Yugen-no-ma, Nihonkiin's online Go site, many (mainly 
> >> young) professionals have played more than 200 two-hc games 
> >> against Zen and its winrate is greater than 70%, AFICR.
>
> ...
> 
> Early December or late November, I remember but due to an 
> accident.  HC games were prohibited but a young 
> professional could play due to a bug (:-) of the server.  
> After that, the manager changed the mind.

Sometimes, little errors in reality forces decisions ;-)

[We had it in Germany back on November 9, 1989, when Guenther
Schabowski was asked when the new travel reguations
for Eastern German citizens would become effective. He did
not know, stuttered around for some moment and then said:
"as far as I know, it will be effective from today on" -
and the wall was down.)

> A professional (director of Japanese national team) told me 
> that two hc games are more interesting and exciting to watch 
> because Zen plays seriously :).

Wow.
 
> BTW, the games between Zen and professionals can be watched 
> any payed members of Nihonkiin.

Thanks for that information. 
Does the server has the opportunity for English interface?

Best regards, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] With English Subtitles: Behind the scenes of Fine Art AI

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

Stefan Kaitschick just mentioned in the German 
computer go forum that there exists a (new) 
Youtube documentation on FineArt AI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHJ2BnFx8Ak
It is about 40 minutes long and has English subtitles.

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Breakthrough: FineArt giving handicap against pro players

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Hideki,

thanks for your posting.

> On Yugen-no-ma, Nihonkiin's online Go site, many (mainly 
> young) professionals have played more than 200 two-hc games 
> against Zen and its winrate is greater than 70%, AFICR.

Very interesting information, and congratulations
to Zen's performance.

* Do you remember when Zen started to give handicaps
against pro players?
* Is that the "normal" Zen version, or one that is
specially tuned for handicap games?

> #On even games (more than 2000), its recent winrate is about 
> 98%.

Having this in mind, it makes indeed sense that
Zen gives handicap stones.

Ingo.

PS. When will AlphaGo start giving handicaps against pro players?
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Re: [Computer-go] Breakthrough: FineArt giving handicap against pro players

[Ingo Althöfer]

That is the new world:
Top computer programs are giving handicap to
(top) professional players!

"We" had the intention to have a handicap setting 
with DeepZen against a Japanese Pro in the  European 
Go Congress in July/August 2018, but the Japanese 
organisation of Professional Go Players did not allow it. 

Now, the Chinese Go scene simply has created facts.
 
Ingo.

Von: "Jim O'Flaherty" 
It's unclear to me who played black with the two handicap stones.  
Ke Jie or FineArt?
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[Computer-go] Breakthrough: FineArt beating Ke Jie with 2 Handicap Stones

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello in the round,

it seems that Chinese company Tencent with their
Go project FineArt has achieved a fantastic breakthrough:
According to the website of the International Go Federation
the new version of FineArt has played 34 handicap games
against pro players, winning 30 of the games. Special
achievement: One of the human opponents was human superstar
Ke Jie (9p). He resigned his game after 77 moves.

http://www.intergofed.org/igf-news-feed/two-stones-fineart-defeated-ke-jie-9p-after-giving-two-stones-handicap.html

Ingo.

PS. Perhaps Tencent is willing to give Deepmind a match on equal
terms (between FineArt and AlphaGo), when AlphaGo also has
beaten Ke Jie (or some other top player) with handicap stones.

PS-2. It might be interesting to see if a team FineArt/DeepZen/AlphaGo 
would beat a top human trio (like KeJie/LeeSedol/Iyama) in "RenGo", 
giving handicap.  
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[Computer-go] New on Project Leela Zero

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Gian-Carlo,
many thanks for running your ZERO project in public.

For all others: I highly recommend reading Gian-Carlo's
fresh statement in the following link:
https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/591

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Project Leela Zero

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello in the round,

I am not sure how narrowly people from the list are
following the progress of Gian Carlo Pascutto's project
Zero Leela. Therefore, here are some impressions.

The project site is:
http://zero.sjeng.org/

Shortly before Christmas some guys in the German
Go mailing list claimed that LeelaZero had not yet 
reached a 25-kyu rank. To get an own impression I 
(with an inactive rating of 18-kyu) went on KGS and 
played a free game against LeelaZSlow. This version 
takes exactly 28 seconds per move, even in trivial 
situations. Long paragraph, short outcome: I lost 
clearly. You can download the sgf from here:
http://files.gokgs.com/games/2017/12/21/GoIngo-LeelaZSlow.sgf

In the meantime the KGS versions of Leela have made
considerable progress. For instance, yesterday and today
two 1-dans and a 3-dan were beaten in single games.
However, Leela also has "strange" weaknesses. The most serious
one concerns hopeless ladders. The only way out for Leela
seems to be to play early tengen-like moves (as possible
ladder breakers).
At least three versions of LeelaZero are active:
LeelaZFast, LeelaZSlow, and LeelZeroT.

As soon as a new "best" LeelaZero version has emerged in
selfplay runs (of length 400 games) it substitutes the previous
version for play on KGS. Currently this happens 1 or 2 times
per day.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Japanese Shogi scene and AlphaZero

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello in the round,

I asked a Japanese friend how the DeepMind report
(on Chess and Shogi) was recepted in the Shogi scene.

Here are the central parts of his answer (given on Wednesday):
> Today, I just found a news on Alpha Zero in a Japanese
> common newspaper, Asahi Shinbun, reporting the superiority
> to previous AI playing program, probably through Google.
> ...
> In the paper, “Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with
> a General Reinforcement Learning Algorith,” by DeepMind,
> it seems there is no example of Shogi play.
>
> Japan Shogi League seems not yet to respond to recent
> Alpha Zero news.

For the Shogi scene it would definitely be interesting
to get Shogi games of AlphaZero for replay.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] AI ryusei 2017 first day result

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hiroshi,

thank you for the information. And please, keep
us informed also tomorrow.

Best regards, Ingo.


> Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Dezember 2017 um 10:36 Uhr
> Von: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] AI ryusei 2017 first day result
>
> Hi,
> 
> 18 programs played swiss 7R, 
> 
>  1. DeepZenGo  6-1
>  2. FineArt6-1
>  3. DolBaram   5-2
>  4.  Tianrang  5-2
>  5. Aya5-2
>  6. AQ 5-2
>  7. Maru   4-3
>  8. Abacus 4-3
>  9. Deep_ark   4-3
> 10. SR Go  3-4  Category B
> 11. Raynz  3-4
> 12. nlp3-4
> 13. GNU Go 3-4  Guest
> 14. Kugutsu2-5
> 15. Katsunari  2-5
> 16. Kifuwarabe 2-5  Category B
> 17. KinoaIgo   1-6
> 18. MayouiGo   0-7
> 
> 15 programs will play tommorow tornament.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
> 
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Re: [Computer-go] Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with a General Reinforcement Learning Algorithm

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Jim,


> In 2002/Nov, I created a Go adaptation, Abchij, which 
> I think might not be easily conquered by these 
> algorithms. It's funny, I did so in anticipation of 
> thwarting any sort of brute force algorithms that might 
> emerge to "solve" Go as I hated how those were the 
> solution to Chess. 
>
> If you are interested, I would be happy to post the 
> rules for the game.

I can only write for myself. But I would definitely
like to see your rules.

Namaste,
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with a General Reinforcement Learning Algorithm

[Ingo Althöfer]

> The AlphaZero paper shows it out-performs AlphaGoZero, but they are
> comparing to the 20-block, 3-day version. Not the 40-block, 40-day
> version that was even stronger.
> As papers rarely show failures, can we take it to mean they couldn't
> out-perform their best go bot, do you think? ...
> 
> In other words, do you think the changes they made from AlphaGo Zero to
> Alpha Zero have made it weaker ...

Just some speculation:

The article on AlphaGo Zero is in NATURE.
Perhaps they made the AlphaZero research simultaneously,
and when facing problems with acceptance in a journal (like NATURE)
they decided to publish a preversion on AlphaZero in arXiv.
So, perhaps the 40-block 40-day experiment was not yet done when
they had written the AlphaZero paper.

Just speculating...
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with a General Reinforcement Learning Algorithm

[Ingo Althöfer]

"Joshua Shriver"  asked:
> What about arimaa?

My personal impression: Arimaa should be rather easy for the
AlphaZero approach.


My questions:
* How well does the AlphaZero approach
perform in Non-zero-sum games?
(or in games with more than two players)

* How well does the AlphaZero approach
perform in games with a robot component
(for instance in Frisbee Go)?
https://www.althofer.de/robot-play/frisbee-robot-go.jpg

* How well does AlphaZero perform in games where "we"
know the best moves by mathematical analysis (for instance
the Nim game), or where we know that the second player
has a mirror strategy to secure a draw?

Ingo.

PS. For a long time I thought that Boston Dynamics was
the best horse in Google's staple. But it seems that
DeepMind was and is better...
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Re: [Computer-go] Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with a General Reinforcement Learning Algorithm

[Ingo Althöfer]

It seems, we are living in extremely
heavy times ...

I want to go to bed now and meditate for threee days. 
 
> DeepMind makes strongest Chess and Shogi programs with AlphaGo Zero method.
> Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with a General Reinforcement Learning 
> Algorithm
> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.01815.pdf
> 
> AlphaZero(Chess) outperformed Stockfish after 4 hours,
> AlphaZero(Shogi) outperformed elmo after 2 hours.
 
It may sound strange, but at the moment my only hopes for
games too difficult for AlphaZero might be 

* a connection game like Hex (on 19x19 board)

* a game like Clobber (based on CGT)

Mastering Clobber would mean that also the concept of
combinatorial game theory would be "easily" learnable.


Side question: Would the classic Nim game be 
a trivial nut for AlphaZero ?

Ingo (is now starting to hope for an AlphaZero type program
that can do "general" mathematical research).
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[Computer-go] Art or not?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,
for the traditional Go scene it is hard to
live in the period of the Alpha revolution.

Part of my process to cope with the changes is
to design some collages. Here is an example:

http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5107.0;attach=6159;image

The German Go scene is just discussing 
if this is art or not.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] A very interesting interview

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi all,

currently a big duel in computer chess is taking place,
with Komodo and Houdini playing a 100-games match.

There was an in-depth interview with the programmers
(Mark Lefler and Larry Kaufman from Komodo, Robert Houdart
from Houdini; Nelson Hernandez being the moderator).
Buit is a long read, but towards the end it becomes
more and more interesting, in my eyes also for the go 
programming scene. 

Here is the link:
http://www.chessdom.com/interview-with-robert-houdart-mark-lefler-and-gm-larry-kaufman/

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello Stephan,

> Another option for your experiment might be to take the 72-hour-old
> network, but only retain the first layers, and initialize randomly the
> last layers.
 
yes, or many others. Not all of them have to be fantastic,
but when you/we get some experience and have a new try
every 3 or 4 days (by simply editing some hundred bytes of code), 
at the end of the year or decade some pearls will be in the harvest.

Ingo.

PS. My wife will find a way to have the power bills paid ;-)
At least this is my expectation.
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Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Petri,
 
"Petri Pitkanen" 
>
>>But again: For instance, when a eight year old child starts
>>to play violin, is it helpful or not when it had played
>>say a trumpet before?
> 
> It would be and this is well known in practice. Logic 
> around the music is the same so hw would learn faster. 
> In the very long run there might be no wanted effects. 
> i.e. hard to learn away from something too similar...

the question is, which intermediate point is optimal 
to switch from instrument/game 1 to game 2.

Having in mind a complicated game 2, it might be helpful
first to teach a simpler game 1 (for some limited time)
and only then switch to game 2. 

In teaching go, one possible path (even with 2 steps) is 
to start with 
(a) Atari-Go on 9x9 board
then switch to
(b) "true" Go on 9x9
then switch to
(c) Go on 19x19

What are optimal lengths for phases (a) und (b) in doing so?

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Alvaro,

Von: "Álvaro Begué" 
> The term you are looking for is "transfer learning": 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_learning
 
thanks for that interesting hint.
However, it is not exactly what I am looking at. 

My question was more in observing and understanding 
"transfer learning phenomena", let them be positive
or negative.

For instance, with respect to the 72-hour run of AlphaGo Zero
one might start several runs for Go(with komi=5.5), 
the first one starting from fresh, the second one from the
72-hour process after 1 hour, the next one after 2 hours ...

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Darren,

> Can I correctly rephrase your question as: if you take a well-trained
> komi 7.5 network, then give it komi 5.5 training data, will it adapt
> quickly, or would it be faster/better to start over from scratch? (From
> the point of view of creating a strong komi 5.5 program.) (?)

in principle yes, but the training should be only with self-generated
data, not with master games from outside.

> Surely it would train much more quickly: all the early layers are about
> learning liberty counting, atari and then life/death, good shape, etc.
> (But, it would be fascinating if an experiment showed that wasn't the
> case, and starting from a fresh random network trained more quickly!)

Indeed. For these two options, I would like to
know which one is the "true".

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Erik,

> No need for AlphaGo hardware to find out; any 
> toy problem will suffice to explore different 
> initialization schemes... 

I know that. 

My intention with the question is a different one:
I am thinking how humans are learning. Is it beneficial
to have learnt related - but different - stuff before?
The answer will depend on the case, of course.

And in my role as a voyeur, I want to understand if having
learnt a Go variant X before turning my interest to a
"slightly" different Go variant Y. Do, I want to combine
the subject with some entertaining learning process.
(For instance, looking at the AlphaGo Zero games from the
72 h experiment in steps of 2 hours was not only insightful
but also entertaining.)


> you typically want to start with small weights so 
> that the initial mapping is relatively smooth.

But again: For instance, when a eight year old child starts
to play violin, is it helpful or not when it had played
say a trumpet before?

My understanding is that the AlphaGo hardware is standing 
somewhere in London, idle and waitung for new action...

Ingo.

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[Computer-go] Learning related stuff

[Ingo Althöfer]

AlphaGo Zero started with random values in
its neural net - and reached top level
within 72 hours.

Would it typically help or disrupt to start
instead with values that are non-random?
What I have in mind concretely:

Look at 19x19 Go with komi=5.5
In run A you start with random values in the net.
In another run B you start with the values that had
emerged in the 7.5-NN after 72 hours. 

Would typically A or B learn better?
Would there be a danger that B would not be able 
to leave the 7.5-"solution"?

It is a pity that I/we do not have the hardware of 
AlphaGo Zero at hand for such experiments.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Is MCTS needed?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Petr,

>   What would you say is the current state-of-art game tree search for
> chess?  That's a very unfamiliar world for me, to be honest all I really
> know is MCTS...

Stockfish is one of the top-three chess programs, and
it is open source. It is mainly iterative deepening
alpha-beta, but with many tricky details.

Something like MCTS would not work in chess, because in
contrast to Go (and Hex and Amazons and ...) Chess is
not a "game with forward direction".

Just 2 Cent, Ingo.

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Re: [Computer-go] Update Odin Zero 9x9 Komi 7.

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Magnus,

thanks also to you for your experiments.
In particular, I like you setting with integral komi.

Cheers, Ingo.


> Gesendet: Samstag, 11. November 2017 um 00:48 Uhr
> Von: valky...@phmp.se
> An: Computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] Update Odin Zero 9x9 Komi 7.
>
> Odin has now generated 5 games with 100 simulation and 90% prior for 
> a random move, and 1 games with 5000 simulations and 15% prior for a 
> random move, with temperature 1.
> ...
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Re: [Computer-go] Nochi: Slightly successful AlphaGo Zero replication

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Petr,

many thanks for you experiments and your posting!
It is an important puzzle piece in understanding 
Alpha-Zero.

Keep on with your good work.

Regards, Ingo.



> Gesendet: Freitag, 10. November 2017 um 01:47 Uhr
> Von: "Petr Baudis" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] Nochi: Slightly successful AlphaGo Zero replication
>
>   Hi,
> 
>   I got first *somewhat* positive results in my attempt to reproduce
> AlphaGo Zero - 25% winrate against GNUGo on the easiest reasonable task
> - 7x7 board. :)  a.k.a.
> 
>   "Sometimes beating GNUGo on a tiny board" without human knowledge
> 
> (much wow!)
> 
>   Normally this would be a pretty weak result much but (A) I wanted to
> help calibrate other efforts on larger boards that are possibly still
> at the "random" stage, and (B) I'll probably move on to other projects
> again soon, so this might be as good as it gets for me.
> 
>   I started the project by replacing MC simulations with a Keras model
> in my 550-line educational Go program Michi - it lived in its `nnet`
> branch until now when I separated it to a project on its own:
> 
>   https://github.com/rossumai/nochi
> 
> Starting from a small base means that the codebase is tiny and should be
> easy to follow, though it's not at all as tidy as Michi is.
> 
> You can grab the current training state (== pickled archive of selfplay
> positions used for replay, chronological) and neural network weights
> from the github's "Releases" page:
> 
>   https://github.com/rossumai/nochi/releases/tag/G171107T013304_00150
> 
>   This is a truly "zero-knowledge" system like AlphaGo Zero - it needs
> no supervision, and it contains no Monte Carlo simulations or other
> heuristics. But it's not entirely 1:1, I did some tweaks which I thought
> might help early convergence:
> 
>   * AlphaGo used 19 resnet layers for 19x19, so I used 7 layers for 7x7.
>   * The neural network is updated after _every_ game, _twice_, on _all_
> positions plus 64 randomly sampled positions from the entire history,
> this all done four times - on original position and the three
> symmetry flips (but I was too lazy to implement 90\deg rotation).
>   * Instead of supplying last 8 positions as the network input I feed
> just the last position plus two indicator matrices showing
> the location of the last and second-to-last move.
>   * No symmetry pruning during tree search.
>   * Value function is trained with cross-entropy rather than MSE,
> no L2 regularization, and plain Adam rather than hand-tuned SGD (but
> the annealing is reset time by time due to manual restarts of the
> script from a checkpoint).
>   * No resign auto-threshold but it is important to play 25% games
> without resigning to escale local "optima".
>   * 1/Temperature is 2 for first three moves.
>   * Initially I used 1000 "simulations" per move, but by mistake, last
> 1500 games when the network improved significantly (see below) were
> run with 2000 simulations per move.  So that might matter.
> 
>   This has been running for two weeks, self-playing 8500 games.  A week
> ago its moves already looked a bit natural but it was stuck in various
> local optima.  Three days ago it has beaten GNUGo once across 20 games.
> Now five times across 20 games - so I'll let it self-play a little longer
> as it might surpass GNUGo quickly at this point?  Also this late
> improvement coincides with the increased simulation number.
> 
>   At the same time, Nochi supports supervised training (with the rest
> kept the same) which I'm now experimenting with on 19x19.
> 
>   Happy training,
> 
> -- 
>   Petr Baudis, Rossum
>   Run before you walk! Fly before you crawl! Keep moving forward!
>   If we fail, I'd rather fail really hugely.  -- Moist von Lipwig
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Re: [Computer-go] November KGS bot tournament

[Ingo Althöfer]

For all who want to participate, here is the correct link:

http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1127

Come on guys, it is THE FINAL!

The winner of the tournament will get a surprise price from me.

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Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo Zero SGF - Free Use or Copyright?

[Ingo Althöfer]

"Petri Pitkanen"  wrot:
>  They are free to use in any attribution. Game score is a reflection of 
> historical fact and hence not copyrightable. 


"reflection of historical fact" concerns games that were played
in public. Over the decades, there were several investigations
(and even Master theses) concerning copyright issues on chess
master games, played in public tournaments. In all cases (known to me) 
the conclusion was "they are free to use".

The case with private games (like in this case those of AG-0)
was not discussed.

Just my 2 Cent, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo Zero

[Ingo Althöfer]

What shall I say?
Really impressive.
My congratulations to the DeepMind team!

> https://deepmind.com/blog/
> http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html

* Would the same approach also work for integral komi values
(with the possibility of draws)? If so, what would the likely
correct komi for 19x19 Go be?

* Or in another way: Looking at Go on NxN board:
For which values of N would the DeepMind be confident
to find the correct komi value?


* How often are there ko-fights in autoplay games of
AlphaGo Zero?

Ingo.

PS(a fitting song). The opening theme of
Djan-Go Unchained (with a march through a desert of stones):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1hqn8kKZ_M
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Re: [Computer-go] Deep Blue the end, AlphaGo the beginning?

[Ingo Althöfer]

GCP wrote: 
> Maybe we should stop inventing artificial differences and appreciate
> that the tools in our toolbox have become much sharper over the years.

Amen.
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Re: [Computer-go] Zen ahead of CGI ahead of FineArt

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

I recommend the very interesting thread
https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18=14466=0
on this event at Life-in-19x19.

Cheeers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] CGI won against FineArt in preliminary league.

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hiroshi,

thank you for the results and the sgf data.

Congratulations to Zen team, including Hideki!

Cheers, Ingo.

> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. August 2017 um 11:12 Uhr
> Von: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] CGI won against FineArt in preliminary league.
>
> Zen won.
> 
> Final game and semi final "Zen vs FineArt" sgf are,
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Re: [Computer-go] CGI won against FineArt in preliminary league.

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hiroshi,

thank you for our information.
Can you please keep us informed about the
results from the final tournament?

Thank you in advance,
Ingo.


> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. August 2017 um 02:59 Uhr
> Von: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] CGI won against FineArt in preliminary league.
>
> Hi,
> 
> CGI won against FineArt and Zen in preliminary league.
> https://twitter.com/UgenNihonkiin/status/897771608743399424
> 
> Top 8 programs will play today's final tournamet.
> 
> World AI Go Open
> https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/6ge1ul/the_1st_world_ai_go_open/
> 
> Thanks,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
> 
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Re: [Computer-go] Invisible: The Brave new World in Go

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Lukas,

if you have a friend in the European Go COngress in oberhof,
tell him to buy a copy for your. Special EGC prize is 30 Euro;
later it will be 34. 

You friend would even have the chance to collect some autographs:
by Fan Hui, who will give talks on next Tuesday and Wednesday;
and by 
Ohashi Hirofumi (6-p),  who will be in Oberhof and play an 
exhibition game against Zen on Wednesday next week
(Hirofumi is also one of the contributors to the book.)
and by
Antti Toermaenen (1-p), who is also playing in Oberhof.

Regards, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Invisible: The Brave new World in Go

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,
I was able to buy a copy of the brandnew book
"Invisible: The Games of AlphaGo", just yesterday
during the European Go Congress.

The book is paperback and has 272 pages. It was compiled, 
edited, and translated by the Finnish pro player Antti Toermaenen.
Published by Hebsacker Verlag, Hamburg.

I published the following review on Amazon:

***
The computer program AlphaGo has changed the world of Go within 
only 15 months. This book presents all games played by AlphaGo 
in public between March 2016 and May 2017, with commentary by 
several professional players: Mitani Tetsuya (7-dan), Shiung Feng 
(6-dan), Ohashi Hirofumi (6-dan), Murakami Akihide (3-dan), and 
Antti Toermaenen (1-dan). Antti Toermaenen has also done a superb 
job in collecting the material from his colleagues and bringing 
it in good shape.

One disclaimer: Do not mix this book up with the classic 
"Invincible - the games of Shusaku" !

The book is written in simple English. Each reader who is familiar 
with the game of Go, will understand enough to study this book with 
win. --- Das Buch ist in einfachem Englisch geschrieben. Jeder Leser, 
der mit dem Go-Spiel vertraut ist, wird dieses Buch mit Gewinn 
studieren können.

Highly recommended!
**

Ingo.

PS. I included the sentence in German, because the book was published
by a German company. I do not know if or when the book will be
included in Amazon's portfolio.
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Re: [Computer-go] What architecture behind Golois2 KGS 7dan ?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Tristan,

nice to read from you.
All the best for your "new" Project!

Ingo.

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Juli 2017 um 21:43 Uhr
> Von: cazen...@ai.univ-paris8.fr
> An: "Patrick Bardou" , computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] What architecture behind Golois2 KGS 7dan ?
>
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> KGS admin told me to reuse my Golois2 account for the new version of
> Golois using a value network, that's why it jumped from 1 dan to 7 dan,
> the old Golois2 was a policy network, the new one uses the policy network
> as a prior for MCTS and a value network to evaluate states. It runs on 3
> GTX 1080Ti GPUs, making approximately 2 000 evaluations in 12 seconds for
> each move. It uses resnet as explained in my recent paper in TCIAIG and
> ACG. There should be all versions of Golois on KGS from 1 to 7, I recently
> only used Golois2 so maybe some other accounts disappeared. I could reach
> 4 dan with a resnet based policy network.
> 
> Thank you for your interest,
> 
> Tristan.
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can anyone (starting with their author maybe) comment on the  go
> > programs playing on KGS as the various "Golois" versions ?
> >
> > In particular, I noticed that Golois2 KGS rank recently jumped from a
> > solid 1dan to a solid 6dan (actually now in the low 7dan in fast games,
> > 15"/move time control; user's info :"Golois version 3.8").
> >
> > Golois and Golois2 have been described by their author as greedy
> > players, based on a Res-Net policy network. So I'm wondering if the
> > currently Golois2 7dan is still based on greedy play (what sounds
> > amazing, even for 15s time control) or if it does incorporate some level
> > of tactical search.
> >
> > In his papers "Residual Networks for Computer Go"
> > (http://www.lamsade.dauphine.fr/~cazenave/papers/resnet.pdf), "Improved
> > architectures for computer go" (https://openreview.net/pdf?id=Bk67W4Yxl)
> > and "Combining tactical search and deep learning in the game of Go"
> > (http://www.lamsade.dauphine.fr/~cazenave/papers/godeep.pdf) , Tristan
> > Cazenave's describes different versions of Golois, but it is not clear
> > for me while reading these papers and checking KGS archive users Golois%
> > what is behind each version. For example:
> >
> > "We made the 20 layers residual network with bagging and a 58.5450%
> > accuracy play games on the KGS internet Go server. The program name is
> > Golois4 and it is quite popular, playing 24 hours a day against various
> > opponents. It is ranked 3 dan."
> > (http://www.lamsade.dauphine.fr/~cazenave/papers/resnet.pdf). However, I
> > don't find a Golois4 in KGS archive, only Golois, Golois2, Golois5,
> > Golois6 and Golois7 ...
> >
> > Thanks and regards,
> > Patrick
> >
> > ---
> > L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par
> > le logiciel antivirus Avast.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >
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> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> >
> 
> 
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[Computer-go] KGS Bot tournament July

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

it seems that the KGS bot tournament did not start, yet.
What is the matter?

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] NNGS server for Go in Leiden

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Hideki,

thank you for the information.
Unfortunately, I can not be in Leiden this time.
Please, give my greetings to the other participants,
to the organizers, and also to the participants in
the conference.

Best regards, Ingo.

> Gesendet: Samstag, 01. Juli 2017 um 07:11 Uhr
> Von: "Hideki Kato" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] NNGS server for Go in Leiden ...
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[Computer-go] Exhibition Games in EGC 2017

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

first of all big thanks to those who fixed the recent problem
with this mailing list! And now for my annnouncement:

The European Go Congress 2017 will be held in Oberhof (Thuringia),
from July 22 to August 06. I am helping in the organisation
team.

On Wednesday, August 02, there will be two exhibition games
between strong human players and computer programs. The names
of the humans will be announced at a later point. For the bots:
The two best-scoring participants in the KGS-July Bot tournament
(to be played on July 09, 2017) will be invited to play. 

Thanks to Nick Wedd for agreeing to this setting. 

The games on August 02 will be played via KGS: The bots
playing from where they "live"; the humans playing in Oberhof,
in a big hall with auditory (and projection of the games to
the wall).

Hopefully really strong bots will participate on July 09.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] mini-max with Policy and Value network

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi, just my 2 Cent.

"Gian-Carlo Pascutto"  wrote:

 
> In the attached SGF, AlphaGo played P10, which was considered a very
> surprising move by all commentators...
> I can sort-of confirm this:
> 
> 0.295057654 (E13)
> ...(60 more moves follow)...
> 0.11952 (P10)
> 
> So, 0.001% probability. Demis commented that Lee Sedol's winning move in
> game 4 was a one in 10 000 move. This is a 1 in 100 000 move.

In Summer 2016 I checked the games of AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol
with repeated runs of CrazyStone DL:
In 3 of 20 runs the program selected P10. It
turned out that a rather early "switch" in the search was
necessary to arrive at P10. But if CS did that it
remained with this candidate.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Ke Jie vs. AlphaGo match

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Aja,

will you also enjoy the games or will it be
distress for you?

Ingo.

PS. Concerning concerns of the others:
It would be fine to have (near)-realtime capture of the games
on KGS.
 
 
***
Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Mai 2017 um 05:52 Uhr
Von: "Aja Huang" 
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Ke Jie vs. AlphaGo match

Thanks Hiroshi. I hope you will enjoy AlphaGo's games. 
Aja
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Re: [Computer-go] May KGS bot tournament

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Hiroshi,

thank you for your explanations. That gives me an
impression - and I am impressed!

Ingo.


> Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. Mai 2017 um 14:24 Uhr
> Von: "Hiroshi Yamashita" <y...@bd.mbn.or.jp>
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] May KGS bot tournament
>
> Hi Ingo,
> 
> Maybe we can guess from CGOS BayesElo.
> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/bayes.html
> 
> Zen-14.6-1c1g4169
> Aya792p2v2cn50_12t   3472
> 
> AyaMC is similar to Aya792p2v2cn50_12t, around 3500.
> Zen19X uses 6 threads with one GPU.
> So maybe around 4169 + 250 = 4300.
> 
> Zen19X is +800 Elo stronger, and its winrate is about 99%.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: ""Ingo Althöfer"" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
> To: <computer-go@computer-go.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] May KGS bot tournament
> 
> 
> > Hi Hideki,
> > thanks for the explannation.
> >
> > So, Aya was already too far ahead.
> > Zen had two more games against Aya in the rounds 5-12 -
> > and won both of them. What do you think about
> > the playing strengths of Zen and Aya in comparison?
> >
> > Cheers, Ingo.
> 
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Re: [Computer-go] May KGS bot tournament

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Hideki,
thanks for the explannation.

So, Aya was already too far ahead.
Zen had two more games against Aya in the rounds 5-12 -
and won both of them. What do you think about
the playing strengths of Zen and Aya in comparison?

Cheers, Ingo.

> Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. Mai 2017 um 10:31 Uhr
> Von: "Hideki Kato" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] May KGS bot tournament
>
> I was sleeping at the beginning and woked up 3:10 AM, after the 
> 4th round. 
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Re: [Computer-go] May KGS bot tournament

[Ingo Althöfer]

Ui, what happened to Zen in the first four rounds?

https://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=s=1113

Ingo.
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