Re: [Computer-go] CGOS source on github

also frankly not a problem for a rating system to handle. a rating system shouldn't be tweaked to handle eccentricities of its players other than the general assumptions of how a game's result is determined (like, does it allow for "win" and "draw" and "undetermined" or just "win"). s. On Fri,

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS source on github

It's a relative ranking versus who you actually get to play against. Sparsity of actual skill will lead to that kind of clumping. The only way that a rating could meaningfully climb by playing gnugo or your direct peers is going to happen exponentially slowly -- you'd need to lose to gnugo twice

Re: [Computer-go] 30% faster with a batch size of 63 instead of 64!

Nice job! And the graph makes it super clear how the edge effects work. s. On Sat, May 9, 2020, 2:19 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: > Hi, > > I am probably not the only one who made this mistake: it is usually very > bad to use a power of 2 for the batch size! > > Relevant documentation by NVIDIA: > >

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9

And this has no book, right? So it should be badly abused by a very good book? s. On Fri, May 8, 2020, 3:28 PM David Wu wrote: > I'm running a new account of KataGo that is set to bias towards aggressive > or difficult moves now (the same way it does in 19x19 handicap games), to > see what the

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9

great book interface, by the way. s. On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 11:01 AM Rémi Coulom wrote: > Hi, > > I trained a neural network for 9x9, and it is playing on CGOS. > > The network has 40 layers (20 residual blocks) of 256 units. It is running > on a Titan V GPU, with a batch of 64, at about 9k

Re: [Computer-go] codecentric Freestyle League - Great Final

BTW: there's a fairly straightforward way to evaluate the skill level of the games on the whole. Is there any interest in that, or just the results? steve On Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 1:38 PM "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote: > Hello, > > the final round of the codecentric Freestyle League

Re: [Computer-go] 0.5-point wins in Go vs Extremely slow LeelaChessZero wins

The human passenger is going to be asleep in the car and hopefully not awakened by something as trivial as braking. I recently understood how komi is being dealt with by Leela zero (or at least by petgo). It's so kludgey and yet is 7d at kgs. So let's just relax on the small optimizations. The

[Computer-go] ...

re: that leela game i posted, it's clearly buggy behavior -- filling in one of its two last eyes, for instance. s. ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] ...

funny leela behavior this morning in a selfplay game (truncated) in case you'd like to see how things can go from time to time (this is with 05d10f27). i thought it might have wider interest because it was so long of a game and because it resulted in such a lopsided score: 641 (B M5) 642 (W A6)

Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...

ake the cut off side sabaki later > > Approaches corner, decides it's ahead, lives later > > It doesn't care about keeping groups strong as much > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 13:24 uurtamo >> They will abandon a fight to take bigger sente. It's super scary to watch. >> >&

Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...

They will abandon a fight to take bigger sente. It's super scary to watch. s. On Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 8:06 PM Robert Jasiek On 29.01.2019 18:53, uurtamo wrote: > > it's [...] about an insane need to keep sente. my only > > takeaway other than reading out fights way way way in advanc

Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...

so aside from the rumors, i've watched games that are simply mind-blowing. it's, from what i've seen, about an insane need to keep sente. my only takeaway other than reading out fights way way way in advance. s. On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:15 AM Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: > On 29/01/19 11:23,

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaZero tensorflow implementation/tutorial

ely by each player. It is simplistic and I think it does give > sub-par evaluations of who is the winner--and definitely is a potentially > serious deterrent to getting better performance. How much, maybe a lot. > What do you think? > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Sunda

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaZero tensorflow implementation/tutorial

stimate" by definition should be weaker than the computer > players it's evaluating until there are no more captures possible. > Not sure I understand entirely. But would agree that the scoring I use is > probably a limitation here. > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ >

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaZero tensorflow implementation/tutorial

A "scoring estimate" by definition should be weaker than the computer players it's evaluating until there are no more captures possible. Yes? s. On Sun, Dec 9, 2018, 5:49 PM uurtamo By the way, why only 40 moves? That seems like the wrong place to > economize, but maybe on 7x7 it'

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaZero tensorflow implementation/tutorial

By the way, why only 40 moves? That seems like the wrong place to economize, but maybe on 7x7 it's fine? s. On Sun, Dec 9, 2018, 5:23 PM cody2007 via Computer-go < computer-go@computer-go.org wrote: > Thanks for your comments. > > >looks you made it work on a 7x7 19x19 would probably give

Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind

nforce it." >> >> Despite many differences in patent law from a country to another, two >> basic purposes of patent are universal: 1. To protect the inventor, and 2. >> To promote the use of inventions by making the details a public knowledge. >> >> >>

Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind

n > the patent, and intend to enforce it." > > Despite many differences in patent law from a country to another, two > basic purposes of patent are universal: 1. To protect the inventor, and 2. > To promote the use of inventions by making the details a public knowledge. >

Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind

hope of the patent eventually being granted, to establish >> "prior art" thereby protecting what's described in it from being patented >> by somebody else. >> >> Or, am I responding to a troll? >> >> Tokumoto >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 7,

Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind

You're insane. On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 4:13 PM Jim O'Flaherty Remember, patents are a STRATEGIC mechanism as well as a legal mechanism. > As soon as a patent is publically filed (for example, as utility, and > following provisional), the text and claims in the patent immediately > become prior art

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

Did not intend to go to the whole group On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 5:01 PM uurtamo wrote: > So deep down I think that first capture isn't that hard. > > I also think that what makes real go that hard is ko, but you've shown > that it's equivalent to ladder, which frankly baffles

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

So deep down I think that first capture isn't that hard. I also think that what makes real go that hard is ko, but you've shown that it's equivalent to ladder, which frankly baffles me. I'd love to understand that. You've done great combinatorics work and great small scale work. What's your

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

Re: trolling On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 4:37 PM Mario Xerxes Castelán Castro < marioxcc...@yandex.com> wrote: > “He” is the genetic singular pronoun in English. If anybody feels > excluded, is because he wants to feel excluded or is intentionally > playing the ignorant card. What happen is that the

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

Without discouraging speech of any kind, I'd like to suggest that the prior statement was of the form "axe to grind" or "mild trolling". s. On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 1:45 PM Dan Schmidt wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:41 PM, Mario Xerxes Castelán Castro < > marioxcc...@yandex.com> wrote: > >

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

o try building NP hard instances. However, without a proof this > assumption is still as valid as (1). > > I am curious what's John Tromp opinion on the above. > > (Please note that the problem I've created has nothing to do with Capture > GO.) > > Thanks, > Marcel > > On 19

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

; without ko - that is, you can reduce any PSPACE problem in reasonable > time to a Go problem without kos. > > --Marcel > > On 18 June 2018 at 22:27, uurtamo wrote: > > My understanding: ko fights will take this to (at least, I haven't seen > the > > EXP argument) PSP

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

My understanding: ko fights will take this to (at least, I haven't seen the EXP argument) PSPACE. no ko fights and no counting (i.e. first capture) could put this in P. s. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 3:21 PM John Tromp wrote: > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:24 PM, Álvaro Begué > wrote: > > I don't

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

https://tromp.github.io/lad.ps > > Álvaro. > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:58 PM, uurtamo wrote: > > FWIW, first-capture go (i.e. winner is first one to make a capture) > should > > not be PSPACE-complete. > > > > the thing in go that makes it har

Re: [Computer-go] Paper “Complexity of Go” by Robson

FWIW, first-capture go (i.e. winner is first one to make a capture) should not be PSPACE-complete. the thing in go that makes it hard is ko fights, which don't exist in capture go. s. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:55 AM Marcel Crasmaru wrote: > Errata: > reduction from GO to an EXP hard problem

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS Real-time game viewer

ground color. Cool! :) > > > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 8:38 AM, uurtamo wrote: > >> This is really well done. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steve >> >> >> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 4:10 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> &g

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS Real-time game viewer

This is really well done. Thanks, Steve On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 4:10 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote: > Hi, > > CGOS 19x19 Real-time game viewer is available. > https://deepleela.com/cgos > > Thank you for author of DeepLeela site. > DeepLeela logins as a Viewer, and dispatches to thier clients.

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

Summarizing the objections to my (non-evidence-based, but hand-wavy observationally-based) assertion that 9x9 is going down anytime someone really wants it to go down, I get the following: * value networks can't hack it (okay, maybe? does this make it less likely? -- we shouldn't expect to

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

Thank you for being so kind in your response. I truly appreciate it. s. On Feb 28, 2018 6:32 PM, "Hideki Kato" <hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp> wrote: > uurtamo .: <CADg0iNBjVU2qzAhgKyYm+AhObqdV5RMWGcNqTtCxqkZhQFSo5w@ > mail.gmail.com>: > >I didn't mean to suggest tha

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

e a solved problem once it has obtained enough focus. s. On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Hideki Kato <hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp> wrote: > uurtamo .: 1vhk7t...@mail.gmail.com>: > >Slow down there, hombre. > > > >There's no secret sauce to 9x9 other than that it isn't the

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

Slow down there, hombre. There's no secret sauce to 9x9 other than that it isn't the current focus of people. Just like 7x7 isn't immune. A computer program for 9x9, funded, backed by halfway serious people, and focused on the task, will *destroy* human opponents at any time it needs to. If

Re: [Computer-go] Project Leela Zero

4dan? On Jan 9, 2018 3:26 PM, "mic" wrote: > Thank you very much. > > It will play on DGS as LeelaZero19 (without GPU support). I will start > this night with an unrated test game against FuegoBot, one minute thinking > time each. Then I will give it a rank, so it can get

Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

> superhuman level, AlphaGo was temporarily stuck in a rut of playing > literally the worst first move on the board (excluding pass). That doesn't > mean I think I could do better. > > > On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 4:50 AM, uurtamo . <uurt...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> This i

Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

This is starting to feel like asking along the lines of, "how can I explain this to myself or improve on what's already been done in a way that will make this whole process work faster on my hardware". It really doesn't look like there are a bunch of obvious shortcuts. That's the whole point of

Re: [Computer-go] Is MCTS needed?

Hideki, This is a very nice observation. s. On Nov 16, 2017 12:37 PM, "Hideki Kato" wrote: Hi, I strongly believe adding rollout makes Zero stronger. They removed rollout just to say "no human knowledge". #Though the number of past moves (16) has been tuned by human

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo Zero self-play temperature

It's interesting to leave unused parameters or unnecessary parameterizations in the paper. It telegraphs what was being tried as opposed to simply writing something more concise and leaving the reader to wonder why and how those decisions were made. s. On Nov 7, 2017 10:54 PM, "Imran Hendley"

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo Zero self-play temperature

If I understand your question correctly, "goes to 1" can happen as quickly or slowly as you'd like. Yes? On Nov 7, 2017 7:26 PM, "Imran Hendley" wrote: Hi, I might be having trouble understanding the self-play policy for AlphaGo Zero. Can someone let me know if I'm on

Re: [Computer-go] NiceGoZero games during learning

than I will probably also measure the > strength of this, but I think this will take some weeks:) > > > Am 06.11.2017 um 17:05 schrieb uurtamo .: > > Detlef, > > > > I misunderstand your last sentence. Do you mean that eventually you'll > put > > a s

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo Zero SGF - Free Use or Copyright?

By way of comparison. It would be ludicrous to ask a world champion chess player to explain their strategy in a "programmable" way. it would certainly result in a player much worse than the best computer player, if it were to be coded up, even if you spent 40 years decoding intuition, etc, and

Re: [Computer-go] Source code (Was: Reducing network size? (Was: AlphaGo Zero))

I ask because there are (nearly) bus-speed networks that could make multiple evaluation quick, especially if the various versions didn't differ by more than a fixed fraction of nodes. s. On Oct 25, 2017 3:03 PM, uurt...@gmail.com wrote: Does the self-play step use the most recent network for

Re: [Computer-go] Source code (Was: Reducing network size? (Was: AlphaGo Zero))

Does the self-play step use the most recent network for each move? On Oct 25, 2017 2:23 PM, "Gian-Carlo Pascutto" wrote: > On 25-10-17 17:57, Xavier Combelle wrote: > > Is there some way to distribute learning of a neural network ? > > Learning as in training the DCNN, not

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo Zero SGF - Free Use or Copyright?

We're suffering under the burden of so much success from other methods that ​it's hard for many people to imagine that anything else is worth considering. Of course this is not true. Tromp's enumerations are particularly enjoyable for me. Human-built decision trees have been so unsuccessful,

Re: [Computer-go] Alphago Zero special circumstances

It will be interesting to realize that those specialized positions (thousand-year-ko, bent 4) are actually a microscopic issue in game-winning. s. On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, uurtamo . <uurt...@gmail.com> wrote: > We can all "wonder" such things unless we are not too

Re: [Computer-go] Alphago Zero special circumstances

We can all "wonder" such things unless we are not too busy to build some code to filter out such positions and see what actually happened in the self-play games opened up to everyone to see. s. On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Dave Dyer wrote: > > I wonder how alphago-0

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo Zero

This sounds like a nice idea that is a misguided project. Keep in mind the number of weights to change, and the fact that "one factor at a time" testing will tell you nearly nothing about the overall dynamics in a system of tens of thousands of dimensions. So you're going to need to do something

Re: [Computer-go] Deep Blue the end, AlphaGo the beginning?

Gian-Carlo, I only ask, not to be snippy or impolite, but because I have just exactly enough knowledge to be dangerous enough to have no freaking idea what I'm talking about wrt chess research, and by way of introduction, let me say that I've seen some people talk about (and a coworker at my

Re: [Computer-go] Alphago and solving Go

Why do you think that there is a 3 in the denominator? On Aug 9, 2017 2:29 PM, "Marc Landgraf" wrote: > I don't mind your terminology, in fact I feel like it is a good way to > distinguish the two different things. It is just that I considiered one > thing wrongly used

Re: [Computer-go] Alphago and solving Go

It's trivial, dude. On Aug 9, 2017 8:35 AM, "Marc Landgraf" wrote: > Under which ruleset is the 3^(n*n) a trivial upper bound for the number of > legal positions? > I'm sure there are rulesets, under which this bonds holds, but I doubt > that this can be considered

Re: [Computer-go] DeepMind's Victory over Ke Jie

1) triumphed over a particular boardgame, perhaps. 2) this has been true since the early days of Monte Carlo go bots -- it tends to result in a higher winning probability when the focus is on... winning probability. People have tried to make bots that focus on points instead, but trying to win by

Re: [Computer-go] Zen lost to Mi Yu Ting

I guess that 1 point in such a game matters to the evaluation function. Pretty fascinating. Can you not train for the two different rulesets and just pick which at the beginning? Ignoring Chinese versus Japanese, just training on komi? Or is the problem of Japanese rules the whole issue? (I.e not

Re: [Computer-go] Zen19K2 is strongest player on KGS

This is really good to hear. 3 stones is totally reasonable. s. On Oct 4, 2016 8:02 PM, "Hiroshi Yamashita" wrote: > Hi, > > Zen19K2 is strongest player on KGS. > http://www.gokgs.com/top100.jsp > Oops, another player is top now. But anyway nearly top. > > Zen19K2 is maybe

Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

GPL is rough On Jun 10, 2016 2:02 PM, "Xavier Combelle" wrote: > for me it's clearly GPL violation > > 2016-06-10 22:17 GMT+02:00 Darren Cook : > >> >> At 5d KGS, is this the world's strongest MIT/BSD licensed program? ... >> >> actually, is there any

Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

Compiler no workie? ;) s. On Jun 10, 2016 11:15 AM, "Dave Dyer" wrote: > > Now if someone would post a binary that would just run on suitable > hardware. > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org >

Re: [Computer-go] Machine for Deep Neural Net training

That's pretty awesome. I didn't think it'd approach the 100x barrier. That's shocking. s. On Apr 26, 2016 9:55 PM, "David Fotland" wrote: > I have my deep neural net training setup working, and it's working so well > I > want to share. I already had Caffe running on

Re: [Computer-go] OmegaGo

Pamphlets <= treatises On Apr 20, 2016 11:17 AM, "David Ongaro" wrote: > Some of "Dr. Browns" pamphlets remind me of Herman Hesse's Steppenwolf. > But Hesse's text was much more refined and enjoyable to read, so I think > "SPAM" is a fitting categorisation. > > > > > On

Re: [Computer-go] new challenge for Go programmers

Nice On Mar 31, 2016 7:48 AM, "Álvaro Begué" wrote: > A very simple-minded way of trying to identify what a particular neuron in > the upper layers is doing is to find the 50 positions in the database that > make it produce the highest activation values. If the neuron is

Re: [Computer-go] "English Explanations" based on Neural Networks

Major changes in the evaluation probability could likely have a horizon of a few moves behind that might be interesting to more closely evaluate. With a small window like that, a deeper/more exhaustive search might work. s. On Mar 31, 2016 10:21 AM, "Petr Baudis" wrote: > On Thu,

Re: [Computer-go] new challenge for Go programmers

rom:* Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] *On > Behalf Of *uurtamo . > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2016 7:43 PM > *To:* computer-go <computer-go@computer-go.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Computer-go] new challenge for Go programmers > > > > He cann

Re: [Computer-go] new challenge for Go programmers

He cannot possibly write code On Mar 30, 2016 4:38 PM, "Jim O'Flaherty" <jim.oflaherty...@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't think djhbrown is a software engineer. And he seems to have the > most fits. :) > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 6:37 PM, uurtamo . <uurt...@gmail.c

Re: [Computer-go] new challenge for Go programmers

This is clearly the alphago final laugh; make an email list responder to send programmers into fits. s. On Mar 30, 2016 4:16 PM, "djhbrown ." wrote: > thank you very much Ben for sharing the inception work, which may well > open the door to a new avenue of AI research. i am

Re: [Computer-go] new challenge for Go programmers

Guys, please take a day. steve On Mar 30, 2016 1:52 PM, "Brian Sheppard" wrote: > Trouble is that it is very difficult to put certain concepts into > mathematics. For instance: “well, I tried to find parameters that did a > better job of minimizing that error function, but

Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to AlphaGo (Statistical significance of results)

Or, if it's lopsided far from 1/2, Wilson's is just as good, in my experience. On Mar 30, 2016 10:29 AM, "Olivier Teytaud" wrote: > don't use asymptotic normality with a sample size 5, use Fisher's exact > test > > the p-value for the rejection of > "P(alpha-Go wins a given game

Re: [Computer-go] Would a larger board (25x25) dramatically reduce AlphaGos skill?

Ko is what makes this game difficult, from a theoretical point of view. I suspect ko+unresolved groups is where it's at. s. On Mar 22, 2016 11:25 AM, "Tom M" wrote: > I suspect that even with a similarly large training sample for > initialization that AlphaGo would suffer

Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to AlphaGo (Statistical significance of results)

This is somewhat moot - if any moves had been significantly and obviously weak to any observers, the results wouldn't have been 4-1. I.e. One bad move out of 5 games would give roughly the same strength information as one loss out of 5 games; consider that the kibitzing was being done in real

Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to AlphaGo (Statistical significance of results)

Simon, There's no argument better than evidence, and no evidence available to us other than *all* of the games that alphago has played publicly. Among two humans, a 4-1 result wouldn't indicate any more or less than this 4-1 result, but we'd already have very strong elo-type information about

Re: [Computer-go] March KGS bot tournament - slow

I like that: "the alphago" On Mar 17, 2016 2:12 PM, "Lukas van de Wiel" <lukas.drinkt.t...@gmail.com> wrote: > Aja Huang is on the mailing list, and he is also on the compyer-go mailing > list. So the AlphaGo is aware. :-) > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:29 A

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo & DCNN: Handling long-range dependency

It's pretty incredible for sure. s. On Mar 14, 2016 2:20 PM, "Jim O'Flaherty" wrote: > Whatever the case, a huge turn has been made and the next 5 years in Go > are going to be surprising and absolutely fascinating. For a game that > +2,500 years old, I'm beyond

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo & DCNN: Handling long-range dependency

Watching games 1-2 stones over you is helpful. There's some limit (9 stones? ) where it's hard to learn much, but computers aren't (apparently) there yet. s. On Mar 14, 2016 9:36 AM, "Jim O'Flaherty" wrote: > I'm using the term "teacher" loosely. Any player who is

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo & DCNN: Handling long-range dependency

There's a _whole_ lot of philosophizing going on on the basis of four games. Just saying. steve On Mar 14, 2016 7:41 AM, "Josef Moudrik" wrote: > Moreover, it might not be possible to explain the strong play in human > understandable terms anyway; human rationalization

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there's not very many two or three-move combos on an empty board. As staggering as it is, I'm inclined to believe without further evidence that there's no book or just a very light book. s. On Mar 10, 2016 7:50 PM, "Seo Sanghyeon" wrote:

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

her chance of winning. > On Mar 10, 2016 12:31 PM, "uurtamo ." <uurt...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Quick question - how, mechanically, is the opening being handled by alpha >> go and other recent very strong programs? Giant hand-entered or >> game-learned joseki boo

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

Quick question - how, mechanically, is the opening being handled by alpha go and other recent very strong programs? Giant hand-entered or game-learned joseki books? Thanks, steve On Mar 10, 2016 12:23 PM, "Thomas Wolf" wrote: > My 2 cent: > > Recent strong computer programs

Re: [Computer-go] Other German poll on Lee Sedol vs AlphaGo

Well, certainly they'd ship it to a kind German proxy. Friend of the court, so to speak. :) s. On Feb 29, 2016 11:10 PM, Ingo Althöfer <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote: > Hello, > > > For those who want to try their luck at the nice board, even without > > knowing German: > > > >

Re: [Computer-go] Mathematics in the world

Robert, Just as an aside, I really respect your attention to detail and your insistence that proof technique follow generalizing statements about aspects of go. I think that the counting problems recently were pretty interesting (number of positions versus number of games). The engineering

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

Not to beat a dead horse, but big numbers aren't inherently interesting to describe. There are integers bigger than any integer anyone has written down in any form. This particular integer is large, but "consumable". I guess I get tired of the "number of atoms in the observable universe"

Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to train the DNN

David, You're a trooper for doing this in windows. :) The OS overhead is generally lighter if you use unix; even the most modern windows versions have a few layers of slowdown. Unix (for better or worse) will give you closer, easier access to the hardware, and closer, easier access to halting

Re: [Computer-go] Knowledge Details

Just as an aside, One nice thing about having "expert" chess players is the ability to easily discover cheating and to estimate the "player rank" of any move. Because the computer is effectively an oracle for that game, it gives incidental feedback about strength of any given move. steve On Feb

Re: [Computer-go] Those were the days ...

That might be a stone or two difference for that software at best, no? s. On Dec 28, 2015 6:58 AM, "Michael Sué" wrote: > > Remember 1998: In the US Go Congress an exhibition match > > took place: 5-dan Martin Mueller against Many Faces of Go. > > Martin gave 29 handicap

Re: [Computer-go] NHK News "Bots will be admitted to pro tournaments"

This would be quite amazing. s. On Dec 23, 2015 5:22 AM, "甲斐徳本" wrote: > NHK (BBC equivalent in Japan) reported in tonight's 7 o'clock news on > national TV channel that "Nihon Kiin will be admitting computer programs to > pro tournaments as participants" > > *Details are

Re: [Computer-go] Maximum Frequency method

BTW: have you tried other distributional difference metrics, or does K-L have properties that you like? Thanks, steve On Sep 5, 2015 1:35 AM, "Hideki Kato" wrote: > djhbrown .: < > capsify9fub60pd3lzdyhdpupffgyenv4t+m47okwphzrb4q...@mail.gmail.com>: > >thank you for

Re: [Computer-go] re comments on Life and Death

Learned rules from pure stats might be good guiding posts, but the pure checking of millions of board positions is always going to be necessary. My $0.02, s. On Sep 4, 2015 3:49 PM, "Jim O'Flaherty" wrote: > I disagree with the assertion MC must be the starting

Re: [Computer-go] Hex is solved ?

Thanks. Generally is good if it's in a reputable journal or conference. Not everyone can do that, but if it's a new and interesting result of interest to more than 100 people, probably you can. There are peer-reviewed electronic journals, for instance. It's also unclear what the formal statement

Re: [Computer-go] EGC2015 Events

Petr, Thanks. Is Haylee's game on kgs, or only youtube? Thanks in advance, steve On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Petr Baudis pa...@ucw.cz wrote: Hi! There are several Computer Go events on EGC2015. There was a small tournament of programs, played out on identical hardware by each,

Re: [Computer-go] Hex is solved ?

Being pspace complete would just make the method impracticably slow for a sufficiently large board size. The searches in such a case will be exponential in board size and not be very interesting. s. On Jul 28, 2015 6:59 AM, John Tromp john.tr...@gmail.com wrote: I have just been told by a

Re: [Computer-go] CGT in Clobber ?!

Well... Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you show up to a vespa rally with a hog, you'll win all long-distance races. Regardless, there can be a lot of merit in the design decisions made in a vespa. (Even ones that might work on a Harley. :) steve On Jul 14, 2015 12:45 AM, Ingo

Re: [Computer-go] Strange GNU Go ladder behavior

So what is the 64-bit problem? (Or did I misread?) On Jun 19, 2015 8:04 PM, Peter Drake dr...@lclark.edu wrote: Okay, that worked (with the correction that ibstdc should be libstdc). The new version doesn't choke on my sgf file! Now for the acid test, running the whole experiment... On

Re: [Computer-go] Strange GNU Go ladder behavior

What does it do for memory management? Is it ungracefully failing while evaluating the ladder itself due to ram issues? steve On Jun 18, 2015 12:15 PM, Peter Drake dr...@lclark.edu wrote: This list may not be able to help, but I'm running out of clues on this one. I'm trying to run an

Re: [Computer-go] evaluating number of wins versus looses

For Wilson, you can use depth to pick confidence bound. s. On Mar 30, 2015 7:09 AM, Petr Baudis pa...@ucw.cz wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 09:11:52AM -0400, Jason House wrote: The complex formula at the end is for a lower confidence bound of a Bernoulli distribution with independent trials

Re: [Computer-go] What's a good playout speed?

Can you put in the game description: really bad, only play if you're patient and put in quicker time controls? s. On Mar 28, 2015 3:25 PM, hughperkins2 hughperki...@gmail.com wrote: You can name name a specific opponent, and then your bot will play against it. Automatch works, but tends to

Re: [Computer-go] What's a good playout speed?

I can offer you a factor of 2 speedup... s. On Mar 28, 2015 7:59 PM, hughperkins2 hughperki...@gmail.com wrote: By the way, for mcts you dont need time controls. Each move takes the same amount of time, since you just do n playouts, and choose n as you like. I think my playouts took 2s,

Re: [Computer-go] implementing simple ko

You can have multiple kos on the board. Two is the most usual case that doesn't trigger other rules. Easiest (logically, not practically, perhaps) is to never repeat a board position ever (so called superko, I think), which could be implemented as a full-board-position hash. s. On Mar 11, 2015

Re: [Computer-go] Tromp Taylor rules http://senseis.xmp.net/?LogicalRules

The border of the board is colorless. s. On Mar 11, 2015 6:21 AM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote: Alvaro, Urban, thanks! I've got an additional question. It may be obvious but it is written a bit ambiguous imho on senseis.xmp.net: A player's score is the number of points of her

Re: [Computer-go] Move Evaluation in Go Using Deep Convolutional Neural Networks

I thought that any layers beyond 3 were irrelevant. Probably I'm subsuming your nn into what I learned about nn's and didn't read anything carefully enough. Can you help correct me? s. On Dec 23, 2014 6:47 AM, Aja Huang ajahu...@google.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 12:38 PM, David Silver

Re: [computer-go] Re: Open source real time Go server

). steve uurtamo wrote: As for other things we'd like to see improved, we could build a list. My pet peeve is the KGS score estimator, which is often wildly wrong. an SE can't be any smarter than a computer player that runs in the amount of time that you're willing to wait for the SE

Re: [computer-go] Re: Open source real time Go server

As for other things we'd like to see improved, we could build a list. My pet peeve is the KGS score estimator, which is often wildly wrong. an SE can't be any smarter than a computer player that runs in the amount of time that you're willing to wait for the SE to calculate*. so don't expect

Re: [computer-go] Optimizing combinations of flags

That doesn't seem to directly support deriving information from random trials. For computer go tuning, would you play multiple games with each parameter set in order to get a meaningful figure? That seems likely to be less efficient than treating it as a bandit problem. you'd decide how many

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