Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/
We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Doesn't unvented fill the house with noxious fumes? I have read that even cooking with gas has been known to cause problems. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
The telcos NEVER made money from residential dialtone, and it remains heavily regulated. We have no choice but to provide it but it remains a cost of doing business. So are you are saying that without regulation to redistribute wealth, many (most?) residential customers would have no telephone service? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters
No. Even if there's a malfunction, the pilot lights are cleverly designed so that if the oxygen levels in the room lower, they go out. But normally gas burns pretty much completely, only leaving a bit of moisture in the air. It's said that after many, many years you can detect a darkening in a room from unvented gas. But by then most people would have painted and replaced furniture anyway. This thread is bouncing all over the place though, straying from units that require no electricity at all to those that require some. e.g. Any unit without a pilot light will obviously require power (or mechanical assist) to ignite. All pellet stoves require power for the feed mechanism to operate. I think what threw us is when Betty said she has week long power failures all the time, and she doesn't want a whole house generator, so she just hunkers down and toughs it out in her solar house. That's such a rare combination of circumstances in the U.S. it's left us all confused. On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Doesn't unvented fill the house with noxious fumes? I have read that even cooking with gas has been known to cause problems. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters
I am not sure where Betty lives, but if a Tornado or Hurricane comes through this area, we can all end up going a week or maybe less without power. During the summer it is just stifling. If I could afford Solar I would do it, it just makes sense down here. But I do have a gas water heater so hot water is readily available, plus camp stoves and propane grill. Stewart At 09:42 AM 2/27/2009, you wrote: No. Even if there's a malfunction, the pilot lights are cleverly designed so that if the oxygen levels in the room lower, they go out. But normally gas burns pretty much completely, only leaving a bit of moisture in the air. It's said that after many, many years you can detect a darkening in a room from unvented gas. But by then most people would have painted and replaced furniture anyway. This thread is bouncing all over the place though, straying from units that require no electricity at all to those that require some. e.g. Any unit without a pilot light will obviously require power (or mechanical assist) to ignite. All pellet stoves require power for the feed mechanism to operate. I think what threw us is when Betty said she has week long power failures all the time, and she doesn't want a whole house generator, so she just hunkers down and toughs it out in her solar house. That's such a rare combination of circumstances in the U.S. it's left us all confused. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Sues TomTom for Using Linux
twice! -Original Message- From: Tom Piwowar [mailto:t...@tjpa.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 9:00 AM To: rleesimon Subject: RE: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linux wow, TomTom, you must be pissedpissed Should I sue for use of my name? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
The telcos NEVER made money from residential dialtone, and it remains heavily regulated. We have no choice but to provide it but it remains a cost of doing business. Broadband is a different story but even in that arena franchise agreements have to be negotiated with entities as small as counties, cities, etc. just to gain the approval needed to begin building a network. It can be quite frustrating to deal with all of this 8-O. What sort of regulations would you propose to implement a universal broadband policy? I'd always go for the carrot [incentives] first before considering the stick [regulations or punishment]. Grants and tax breaks can be offered to companies to create and provide network broadband services within defined parameters within a reasonably limited amount of time. The stick would only be used on companies that take the incentives without producing desired results. It would also be used for price gouging, and that also needs to be defined considering the difference between cost and charges for service, plus projected subscription base. Whether individual households use this service or not isn't important. The benefits to nonusers from businesses, schools and communities being more connected, resourceful and efficient will affect them positively even if they don't use broadband themselves. BTW, if telcos never made money from residential service, how did they pay my dividends for so many years, including 2008? They make money from residential service in metropolitan areas, but not in rural areas. Balancing those services might make a net zero profit. Business services are profitable. We just cancelled my dad's WATS line last week now that his business is shut down. It was only $16/mo. My cousin had a residential WATS line in the 70s that cost $500/mo, but she could call anywhere in the world and talk as long as she wanted. More businesses are using more services, at better rates, thus adding to the telco bottom line. I'd like to see figures that indicate a loss for dial tone service in metro areas. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
When ATT was ATT they made money on the long distance portion of your Bill. That was always the money end. They also make money on Business users. Our church pays twice as much as a residential customer because we are a business. Yet we use it a lot less than a residential phone. Plus the factor you mentioned city/rural made the big difference. Stewart At 11:45 AM 2/27/2009, you wrote: I'd always go for the carrot [incentives] first before considering the stick [regulations or punishment]. Grants and tax breaks can be offered to companies to create and provide network broadband services within defined parameters within a reasonably limited amount of time. The stick would only be used on companies that take the incentives without producing desired results. It would also be used for price gouging, and that also needs to be defined considering the difference between cost and charges for service, plus projected subscription base. Whether individual households use this service or not isn't important. The benefits to nonusers from businesses, schools and communities being more connected, resourceful and efficient will affect them positively even if they don't use broadband themselves. BTW, if telcos never made money from residential service, how did they pay my dividends for so many years, including 2008? They make money from residential service in metropolitan areas, but not in rural areas. Balancing those services might make a net zero profit. Business services are profitable. We just cancelled my dad's WATS line last week now that his business is shut down. It was only $16/mo. My cousin had a residential WATS line in the 70s that cost $500/mo, but she could call anywhere in the world and talk as long as she wanted. More businesses are using more services, at better rates, thus adding to the telco bottom line. I'd like to see figures that indicate a loss for dial tone service in metro areas. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
The stick would only be used on companies that take the incentives without producing desired results. The telcos did that recently, but there was no stick. We got stuck with a charge on our monthly phone bills for something that never happened. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
I'd always go for the carrot [incentives] first before considering the stick [regulations or punishment]. Then why do folks get so upset when someone proposes paying rewards to students who get good grades? Often the problem with rewards is that people expend huge resources finding ways to game the system. For starters, consider crop subsidies. Yet the same folks who oppose helping kids will be the strongest supporters of payouts to giant agrabusinesses. Why? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
Many small farmers do not like dealing with subsidies as they find they take too much paperwork, and often do not pay enough for what it is worth. Most small businesses and people are like this. How many rebate forms have you filled out the past 12 months? My wife is a stay at home empty nester. She fills out each and every rebate form we get so it makes a difference, but we are highly unusual in that realm, many consumers do not as it is not worth their time. The rewards must be worth it or they are not rewards, but just nuisances. Stewart At 12:19 PM 2/27/2009, you wrote: Then why do folks get so upset when someone proposes paying rewards to students who get good grades? Often the problem with rewards is that people expend huge resources finding ways to game the system. For starters, consider crop subsidies. Yet the same folks who oppose helping kids will be the strongest supporters of payouts to giant agrabusinesses. Why? Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
Yes it has, but I still see rebates of 10-15$. I just finished sending out a rebate of $15 for a motherboard. Stewart At 01:30 PM 2/27/2009, you wrote: I'm curious, what size rebate do you have in mind? A $25 rebate would seem enough to justify the paperwork even if you're busy, money is money (especially nowadays when investments are nothing to write home about). I have to add that, since it has generally become possible to check the status of rebates on-line, the process has become a bit less painful. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Sues TomTom for Using Linux
Last I knew DRDOS was owned by Novell. Stewart At 03:07 PM 2/27/2009, you wrote: It recall that Microsoft licensed QDOS in 1981 from a Seattle company to pitch Microsoft to IBM as the best provider of the PC operating system. Gates renamed it MS-DOS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS QDOS (aka 86-DOS) copied CP/M's naming convention for portability of applications, therefore MS-DOS copied CP/M's naming convention. Digital Research was created in the 70's to market CP/M, and should hold the first patent for that convention... if they had the foresight to patient such a benign aspect of their creation! - Brian Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
Well, $15 will buy you at least 2 decent meals where I live. This gives me an idea (I'm serious about this). If anybody knows a young person who wants an idea for a service project of some sort, perhaps volunteering to help working folks apply for rebates would qualify. On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: Yes it has, but I still see rebates of 10-15$. I just finished sending out a rebate of $15 for a motherboard. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
Don't laugh it would make great money for the seniors and much appreciated work for the youngsters. Stewart At 03:41 PM 2/27/2009, you wrote: Well, $15 will buy you at least 2 decent meals where I live. This gives me an idea (I'm serious about this). If anybody knows a young person who wants an idea for a service project of some sort, perhaps volunteering to help working folks apply for rebates would qualify. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] D.S.L. phone service
Why not get a voip line like what I have and use that for the bulk of your talk and if you want keep the pots for emergencies at the lowest possible rate ...I got phonepower.com ...when I got it they had a deal 10%off whatever your 1st bill was ...so I signed up for a year which sold for $200 and the special they had going means 2nd year free ...so, without calculating all the details (they still get the taxes and fees for the 2nd year) it winds up about 8 bucks a month (you can use 5000 minutes/mo) ...modem free (s/h $15) and good customer service in the USA and knowledgeable. If you mention me we BOTH get a $10 gift on our bill as well (if this somehow violates the tos or offends anyone I will take it off any other posts ...I am not affiliated with them at all except as a customer in hopes of getting a free pizza dinner)... I researched and found it to be better than the other voip stuff. This can coexist with your pots cuz it goes over the dsl or higher connection...I find it to be so much clearer than pots was. -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall [mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: Re: DSL answering machines/DSL phone service When ATT was ATT they made money on the long distance portion of your Bill. That was always the money end. They also make money on Business users. Our church pays twice as much as a residential customer because we are a business. Yet we use it a lot less than a residential phone. Plus the factor you mentioned city/rural made the big difference. Stewart At 11:45 AM 2/27/2009, you wrote: I'd always go for the carrot [incentives] first before considering the stick [regulations or punishment]. Grants and tax breaks can be offered to companies to create and provide network broadband services within defined parameters within a reasonably limited amount of time. The stick would only be used on companies that take the incentives without producing desired results. It would also be used for price gouging, and that also needs to be defined considering the difference between cost and charges for service, plus projected subscription base. Whether individual households use this service or not isn't important. The benefits to nonusers from businesses, schools and communities being more connected, resourceful and efficient will affect them positively even if they don't use broadband themselves. BTW, if telcos never made money from residential service, how did they pay my dividends for so many years, including 2008? They make money from residential service in metropolitan areas, but not in rural areas. Balancing those services might make a net zero profit. Business services are profitable. We just cancelled my dad's WATS line last week now that his business is shut down. It was only $16/mo. My cousin had a residential WATS line in the 70s that cost $500/mo, but she could call anywhere in the world and talk as long as she wanted. More businesses are using more services, at better rates, thus adding to the telco bottom line. I'd like to see figures that indicate a loss for dial tone service in metro areas. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Sues TomTom for Using Linux
Digital Research was created in the 70's to market CP/M, and should hold the first patent for that convention... if they had the foresight to patient such a benign aspect of their creation! The article doesn't say specifically, but I strongly suspect that the patents are not on 8.3 filenames per se. I suspect that the patents have to do with the mechanisms by which an OS with long filenames supports legacy software that only understands 8.3 names. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
Now, are there third party solar backups for FIOS? Or DC powered backups coupled with generators? FIOS will only need a few milliamperes. You could put the 2 cats on a treadmill hooked to a small generator. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Sues TomTom for Using Linux
The article doesn't say specifically, but I strongly suspect that the patents are not on 8.3 filenames per se. I suspect that the patents have to do with the mechanisms by which an OS with long filenames supports legacy software that only understands 8.3 names. Why would any rational system designer think they still need to support 8.3? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
So are you are saying that without regulation to redistribute wealth, many (most?) residential customers would have no telephone service? No, I'm saying that it's a cost of doing business. State tariffs normally cap rate of return, set prices and define, strictly, performance standards. If I fail to meet those standards I'm OOB. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/
We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Doesn't unvented fill the house with noxious fumes? I have read that even cooking with gas has been known to cause problems. It hasn't been a problem. You could use air-to-air heat exchangers to change the air frequently, but our house isn't officially superinsulated. These are blue flame heaters that are 99.9% efficient. The byproduct is primarily water vapor. As long as the tank is outside and doesn't leak inside, it's fine. The greenhouse leaks enough fresh air into the house most of the winter through the cat door and roof vents. Our heaters are very small and aren't used more than a few hours a day [haven't used them since Tuesday], only on low and sometimes medium heat [500/600 BTU each]. Most houses around the same size would require 10 times more BTUs than ours [max for unvented is 40,000 BTU]. There's a low-oxygen monitor that turns the heater off automatically. The supplier adds a noxious odor to the odorless propane so customers can smell a leak and shut down the heaters. We turn off the pilot and valve when we're away; if the propane leaks when you're away, your house could explode, but you'd notice a leak when you're at home by the scent. For a typical American house, you'd need vented propane or natural gas heat, not unvented. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
BTW, if telcos never made money from residential service, how did they pay my dividends for so many years, including 2008? Residential service is a drop in the revenue bucket (one that is getting smaller by the day, by the way). A maintenance or installation truck roll costs virtually the same whether it's a $6.00 a month Lifeline subscriber or a $400 a month DS1 subscriber (prices aren't exact and vary by applicable tariff, which I don't have in front of me at the moment). It may be true that it is less expensive to provide basic dialtone in a metropolitan area as opposed to somewhere more rural. That is usually reflected in state tariffs, but the difference is often less than you may expect. I never worked in residential service provisioning, though, but I do know business rates. In Pennsylvania, a state I know well, it's currently $50 to hook up a new line no matter whether it's in Center City Philly or as in a job I managed a few weeks ago--west of Pittsburgh in a place that was too out of the way to have a unique name, a brand new industrial park carved out of a field, let's call it Yasgur's Farm. $50 a line. No cable in place, nothing. And of course a rush job in sub freezing temperatures, tying up three linemen, two trucks, an engineer, a foreman, and a technician for a week, give or take. I estimate we'll turn a profit on that job, maybe in 2015 if the customer makes a LOT of phone calls. But you can't say no, that's regulated universal service. But we also ran in a DS1 at the same time and provisioned fiber conduit. When they're ready we'll be ready. We make little if anything on dialtone. We DO make money on higher level enterprise optical services, backbone transport, and anything deregulated or unregulated that we can price at market rate. And we do infrastructure better and faster than anybody in telecom. That is where your dividends come from. I'd like to see figures that indicate a loss for dial tone service in metro areas. Proprietary, but check your annual report. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/
Years ago a friend put one of the ventless heaters in a small trailer she was renting. When she got home on a cold winter day, everything was soaked inside from the water vapor. Obviously, it wasn't a good fit for that type of installation. Richard P. On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:00 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Doesn't unvented fill the house with noxious fumes? I have read that even cooking with gas has been known to cause problems. It hasn't been a problem. You could use air-to-air heat exchangers to change the air frequently, but our house isn't officially superinsulated. These are blue flame heaters that are 99.9% efficient. The byproduct is primarily water vapor. As long as the tank is outside and doesn't leak inside, it's fine. The greenhouse leaks enough fresh air into the house most of the winter through the cat door and roof vents. Our heaters are very small and aren't used more than a few hours a day [haven't used them since Tuesday], only on low and sometimes medium heat [500/600 BTU each]. Most houses around the same size would require 10 times more BTUs than ours [max for unvented is 40,000 BTU]. There's a low-oxygen monitor that turns the heater off automatically. The supplier adds a noxious odor to the odorless propane so customers can smell a leak and shut down the heaters. We turn off the pilot and valve when we're away; if the propane leaks when you're away, your house could explode, but you'd notice a leak when you're at home by the scent. For a typical American house, you'd need vented propane or natural gas heat, not unvented. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL answering machines/DSL phone service
Whether individual households use this service or not isn't important. The benefits to nonusers from businesses, schools and communities being more connected, resourceful and efficient will affect them positively even if they don't use broadband themselves. Well, that has not been my experience. The Federal Universal Service Fund (FUSF) is all ready part of your telephone bill and it was designed to do exactly what you are proposing. It relates directly to schools and rural areas. When you say that it doesn't matter whether individual households use the service, Betty, that is not a particularly compelling argument. Either wait until I or someone like me makes it happen for you at a competitive rate or pay a market rate for the service level you want. I'll do it, if you're in my territory. It will cost you just the same price as it costs government or enterprise customers. As fast as you like, for what it costs me to provide it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Sues TomTom for Using Linux
Why would any rational system designer think they still need to support 8.3? A) Relevance to the MS lawsuit, please? B) Not so very long ago you mentioned that you couldn't use (or knew people who couldn't use) Vista because it did not support certain legacy apps that you (or they) need. But now, no rational system designer needs to support 8.3? Pick a side, any side. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
