From: "Gunlaug Sørtun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Al Sparber wrote:
>> As a point of information, we've had this page floating around a
>> long
>> time: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/minmax/cssp5.htm
>
> I've ran some of your solutio
r own right. Poke around some of our "PagePack" demos and other
gems can be found :-)
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
DW Extensions - Menu Systems - Tutorials - CSS FastPacks
-
Webdev Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven
From: "Al Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> There is a rounding bug in IE that causes the problem you see. The
> following page contains a workaround for a horizontal list
> comprising
> one of our menu systems, but feel free to use the solution we employ
> via a CSS
al list comprising
one of our menu systems, but feel free to use the solution we employ
via a CSS expression. If you have 4 links, then change this part of
the expression: ".offsetWidth/5" to this ".offsetWidth/4".
http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/testi
testing/eric/
If you add 2px to your solution, it will align as well. Our expression
is simpler, though :-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure i
From: "Ingo Chao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Float containment problem in IE/Win
> Al wrote:
>> if you can get rid of the scrollbar ...
>
> I fear that would require the next nastiness ;)
> Shifting the margin from #contain to a padding
n.html
>
> Two minor changes.
Good solution (if you can get rid of the scrollbar, it would be
awesome). I like your approach and way of thinking.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hou
gt; talk
> about not relying on Javascript, expressions should be no exception.
This is off-topic, but I have to comment that you seem to not
understand the difference between using JavaScript to enhance a page
and simply being against JavaScript in general as part of a religious
belief :-)
find it useful. "One man's junk can be another
man's treasure" :-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 mile
ng/eric/
However, working with IE expressions requires working within some
constraints so as not to trigger recursive loops. The element that the
expression works on needs to be clean and must not contain (or
inherit) borders, padding, or any proportional measures.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.pr
nds that or not). I think the problem IE is having is with
both floated DIVs being assigned a percentage width. That invokes some
very irksome behavior, as you can see. Can you get away with one fixed
width DIV?
I imagine a hack might be possible, though I can't imagine how right
now, and it mi
nything preceeding the DOCTYPE, IE6 will go into
quirks mode and use the IE5 box model.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge
question is: how can i make the blue border disappear acting on
the CSS ?
--------
#logo img {border: 0;}
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per h
w the
> popups. That's
>just the way it is, folks.".
LOL. Just make it what it really is, a JavaScript file. The way these
"pure CSS" menu architects are using HTC files is more akin to a child
feeling hidden by covering his head.
Happy Thanksgiving to all in the U.S :
mpler solution, there is this:
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/index.htm
This is not an invitation to a debate. It is a viable solution. If
it's of interest to you, fine. If not, don't use it, but please don't
debate it's premise or you'll be debating w
rrived at was done for a government web site
we've been working closely with and had to accomodate multiple
adjacent skip/hidden links with "pipe" separators.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road
skipNav:active {left:0;top:0}
Feel free to use that message. I did some testing for a government
customer of ours last week and my solution seemed a pretty much
portable and bulletproof.
Whatever floats your boat.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is someti
rizontal root items:
http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/user_guide/styling/menu_widths/hz_root_varwidth.htm
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mount
to editorialize the
wrongheadedness of CSS, so suffice it to say that you should really do
some usability testing before deploying "flowable" columns in a web
browser - no matter which technique you use.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometim
e editable comments, then the mistake was likely
introduced by you as CSS cannot effect that.
You might want to try a scripted solution, though - as equal height
columns is purely an aesthetic.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling d
t; them all
> the same width.
>
> (Was that clear, if not, I'll upload it somewhere)
Hi Joanne,
This section in the Pop Menu Magic User Guide should help you:
http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/user_guide/styling/menu_widths/hz_root_varwidth.htm
Sorry 'bout the
r on list. Please Al, if
> you have anything further to add, that isn't related to you know,
> that practical css vibe, please direct it to me personally and we
> can report back on anything that pops out.
This will be my last response, too. Thanks for engaging me, Alex.
Al Sp
en.com/csslab/pie/eq1.htm
Using a spacer in place of the big padding:
http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/pie/eq2.htm
> Or are you just using 'spacer' as a css cheap shot?
Of course not, Alex. I might not agree with the technique but I have a
lot of respect for the effort you
orld suddenly are forced, I
mean really forced, to get on the exact same page in terms of how
their appliances render those specifications. The truth is sometimes a
valuable thing that helps us plan and motivates us to do better :-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
&qu
ven using position to move
something offscreen worries me a bit, even though we've used that
technique ourselves. No one I know can say for sure what impact these
types of techniques can have in all scenarios.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is some
for the
> challenge.
And if you're not up to the challenge of such a large task, you can
simply take the simple approach and use an expression.:
Of course, that might be too simple and I'd hate to ruin anyone's fun
:-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Desi
ther tag attributes, has been
deprecated. If you want to use a BR to clear a float, use this method:
Then this rule:
.clearit {clear: both;}
If you want the clearing element to have no layout impact, then this
rule:
.clearit {
clear: both;
height: 0;
line-height: 0;
font
give each
column a width and float them. If you just want to prevent the layout
from squishing at small window widths, you could use the min-width
property (along with an easy workaround for IE, which does not support
the property). Here are some layout examples you can investigate:
http://www.proj
hey appear to work although the third level flyouts are very
difficult to operate - so I guess I would give it an "A" for design
and a "D" for usability.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain r
look at the
technique, though, the more it seems like spacers revisited with a
modern twist... and I'm concerned about 32,000 of territory being part
of the DOM. Perhaps the envelope is being pushed a bit over the edge
(and into a 32,000px abyss)?
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
ptions. To answer your question, simply create your menu without the
images, and then after the menu is inserted, go back and manually
replace the top-level link text with your images. The system will
recognize "custom markup" inside the tag and will allow you to
continue using the modif
The page is still broken and it never had anything to do with our
script :-). The link you posted on our newsgroup earlier was
mis-spelled. Your problem is not fixed. Feel free to post again and
we'll help you fix it.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing w
begrudge the suggestion :-) Many scripts are made by amateurs
with explicit instructions for deploying them in very bad ways.
Fortunately, that's not our style.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road
> and it
> does not reappear until the page is reloaded (at least here.) Nice
> effect
> :)
Even nicer effect on Opera :-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in
r, primarily. The one great
aspect of DW8, from our perspective, is that CSS can be toggled off in
Design View do it becomes a good medium for typing in content. But you
still need to be watching the code because pressing enter at the wrong
spot can cause things to happen that are not too good
From: "Austin, Darrel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Css-D"
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: [css-d] Good looking fluid-width sites
Now here's another example for you all:
http://pro.html.it/esempio/proglayout/2col.html
Assume this was only given to IE. No jitters. Just a smoo
From: "Christian Montoya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Al Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Good looking fluid-width sites
When making the window narrower, the min-width expression shoul
script is used to set equal height
columns. They should, in this implementation, animate to full height:
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/col2fixed.htm
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mounta
. Most of these issues are exacerbated
when dynamically changing properties, so a static CSS developer would
not see them very often.
By the way, while I don't agree with all the techniques you are using,
my hat's off to you for the amount of time and effort you've obviously
devoted.
- Original Message -
From: "Philippe Wittenbergh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CSS-D"
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Good looking fluid-width sites
On 26 Oct 2005, at 2:07 pm, Al Sparber wrote:
Al Sparber wrote:
This page:
h
From: "Christian Montoya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It's completely relevant. You have to resize your browser window after
the page loads to see that it's stuck in IE 6 sp 2. Then, if you
reload the page at the new resolution, the javascript works and the
layout snaps into place. But only on reload, no
From: "Thierry Koblentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Al Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Michael Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Css-D"
; "Christian Montoya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, Oct
From: "Christian Montoya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I guess that's proof that most users never resize their windows.
That's completely irrelevant.
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
L
list where anomalies have been reported. That page was released as an
example on our newsgroup and in a newletter to 24,000 of our customers
without anyone reporting that.
Oh well;-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
From: "Michael Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Al Sparber wrote:
I see. So "flubber" tries to be identical to the example I just
gave,
but it's not scripted right, so it doesn't reload immediately.
I'm sorry. I just don't understand what you a
installation) - but I have no idea what it is you are trying to
describe. The page works flawlessly.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road
to;
width: auto;
min-width: 720px;
max-width: 1000px;
}
If you really wanted it to stretch the full width of a 1600px wide
window, then you would remove the max-width property.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mount
on't work in IE are acceptable.
Oh well :-)
Cheers!
Al Sparber
Whatever you say. Very nice this end. Opens like a butterfly. 600 to
1280. Nice work.
Ah. Losing content offscreen with no horizontal scrolling to see it is
good stuff? It takes all kinds :-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://
s I guess pages that don't work in IE are acceptable.
Oh well :-)
Cheers!
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge tha
Christian Montoya wrote:
OK, but when testing this "flubber" layout in IE, I see that it's
fixed.
LOL, it's not fixed :-) Test it again. Do you have an unfixed
stanalone IE installation per chance?
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is
difficult.
No disrespect intended, but the two sites I commented on are good
examples of what not to do with CSS and JavaScript.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles pe
- Original Message -
From: "Austin, Darrel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Css-D"
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: [css-d] Good looking fluid-width sites
> http://www.3tc4u.co.uk/
>
> Notice the max-width on the center column. A great example.
Yes, not bad at all!
It'
From: "Christian Montoya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I think you missed this example from my last message:
http://www.3tc4u.co.uk/
Notice the max-width on the center column. A great example.
It's broken in IE6 when the window is resized.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven
t;;
voice-family:inherit;
color: green;
}
If you are new to this, take this opportunity to reconsider using
parser hacks. There are more logical methods available that do not
rely on software bugs as Gunlaug so eloquently stated. If you are
interested, respond offlist as this topic usually ge
fits their needs and philosphy.
I see. Since this is obviously a religion, I feel on-topic saying God
help everyone :-) I'm out of the discussion - but I'll keep praying
;-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designi
ilsafe method, feel free to contact me offlist and I'll be
happy to explain it :-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in th
menu to support keyboard surfing.
This article describes some CSS and accessibility issues relevant to
these types of menus, which might prove helpful:
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/accessibility/pop_integrated/index.htm
Good luck.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"
move. Javascript is the native behavioral medium
and provides the means to making a feature rich and more usable menu
that is styled using CSS, rather than operated with CSS.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mou
omplete article) last year and I
had the hardest time getting people to understand that the script was
absolutely failsafe. Good job on the article.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles p
From: "David Dorward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 29/09/05, Al Sparber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: "Dan_MailLists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The designer is the ultimate determinant of whether and how a site
meets accessibility guidelines. There are too many n
From: "Christian Heilmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> does anyone know a technique to allow me to use a graphical nav
> bar,
> but that is Bobby AAA compliant - as well as the usual standards
> compliant and cross-browser compatible?
The designer is the ultimate determinant of whether and how a si
I'm sure others have examples to point you at, but
this example might give you food for thought:
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/pmm/rootimages/sample.htm
It's a pulldown menu, but the technique would work as well for a
single root level.
HTH
Al Sparber
PVII
h
From: "Vicki Stebbins (Skinner)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Al,
Many thanks. I changed the ems to pixels (I understand pixels
better) and so now have:
width: 80px;
padding: 4px 2px 4px 2px;
But now FF is cutting off the word catalogues halfway through the
E... any suggestions?
Leave things th
padding, you
cannot set the LI to 8em (which is what you have done). You might want
to change the padding method on the . Top and bottom can remain in
pixels, but left and right should be in ems so you can do the math
accurately for the box.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Des
my experience
tells me that it would be extremely rare that a person outside the web
development business would ever change those settings.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/accessibility/pop_integrated/
While the article focuses on our menu system, its techniques can be
used for any well-coded popup menu and might be of value to some here
both for the navigation approach and the CSS methods used.
--
Al Sparber
PVII
http
From: "BJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Site here:
<http://kickasswebdesign.com/webgeekdir/>
Though not a CSS issue, I thought you'd like to know that there is a
JavaScript error on your page.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is
people who have
* Supposedly behaviors persist even when JS is disabled. Still
true?
No. This, combined with Eric's post should end the thread, perhaps?
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 9
ab/testing/minmax/
So long as the math is done correctly, it should not freeze IE6. Of
course, he could use his existing expression if he dumps IE into
quirks mode, but that is not, imo, a good solution.
By the way, it's not really a freeze, it's an infinite recursive loop
that is
ri and
FF in Mac, but not in FF or IE for Win. I'm sure I've read of a
solution to
this, but can't find it.
Digital
Storefront
Bad.
Digital Storefront
#headernavbar #firstlink {border-left: 0;}
Good.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is
Am I missing something or perhaps you are not reading all of the
messages. You simply recast the answer I already gave last night
(backwards, actually) :-) This poor lady is going to be very
confused.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes
From: "Michael Cassidy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Wouldn't you still need some code, php javascript etc, to identify
your
page and set the body id or manually set each body id?
For the site in question, manually setting the body ID would make a
lot more sense.
From: "Theresa Mesa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Al Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "CSS-discuss list"
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Uberlinks...
Wait, the links are in a server side include, not on the page
itself. The
hnique, you would set up a special
selector:
#uberlink {
background-image: url(perry_images/blue.gif) !important;
}
Then you would take the link that you want to afect and give it that
ID.
About Us
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barre
From: "Al Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It's not going to work on the body element. Wrap your entire layout
in a DIV - or use this page as an example:
http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/minmax/flubber.htm
Or if you want to get cute, you can really &quo
"1080px": "100%");
It's not going to work on the body element. Wrap your entire layout in
a DIV - or use this page as an example:
http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/minmax/flubber.htm
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is somet
From: "Philippe Wittenbergh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
IE Mac does NOT suffer from that broken box model. It was actually
the first browser to implement the CSS2 block model correctly.
Not ENTIRELY correctly :-) In my experience it sometimes
mis-calculates borders on nested elements that ordinari
ag is, curiously, supported by a lot
of modern browsers, including Firefox, Opera, and Safari. It won't
validate, but it will work - and I'm not "sanctioning" it, but I did
do a half-serious example not too long ago :-)
http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/te
ndeed fix it.
Thank you.
This will work, using a
clear: both;
font-size: 1px;
height: 0;
line-height: 0;
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowled
res as you practice,
practice, practice, and practice more. There is no fast track. As you
practice, ask questions in lists like this.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the kno
the hacks. Obviously you
feel that staying away from javascript is important, but it is the
most stable solution. So I'll show you an example anyway :-)
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/index.htm
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is
s - note that it might cause IE to freeze. To drop IE
into quirks mode, omit the url (the second line) in the DOCTYPE or
place a comment above the DOCTYPE.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 mile
From: "Gunlaug Sørtun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Al Sparber wrote:
From the site you linked:
"As it is now, these expressions can only be made to work in
IE5.0+/win, and only in quirks mode. This at least give us a mean
to overcome some of IE/win's shortcoming
ne:
http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/pagepacks/bartlett/bart_2col_fluid_v_01.htm
Good luck ;-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowled
Here is another solution you can employ:
I prefer this because, generally speaking, italicised text looks
really bad on computer screens. But it's just an option - and one I
haven't seen presented here yet.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is
From: "Heather Haggerty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Yes I seen that page earlier today ... I didn't dload the script as
my
client would never go for the column animating downward like that. I
personally think it's pretty nifty and would use it for other
clients/projects.
The animation can be turne
Hi Heather,
The "columns" technique described in the article linked below might
prove a lot easier to deploy than "faux" columns:
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/
It's another option, in any event ;-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
&qu
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/
DOM-Scripted. Also includes a zip archive of layouts.
Enjoy.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge
topic on
this list's wiki you could run through for other ideas:
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ListMenus
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
DW Extensions - Menu Systems - Tutorials - CSS FastPacks
-
Webdev News
t and obviates the need to have a second app constsntly
running. Has code hints, property completion, color syntax. Otherwise,
you might look into TopStyle or StyleMaster. If you are comparing the
little popup CSS Editor in Dreamweaver, it's pretty much useless :-)
Al Sparber
PVII
http://w
By the way, the menu is there and working on the second page - there
is just no background to set off the white text. Make sure your style
sheets are the same.
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90
ld the
markup for you.
Gotta watch that Dreamweaver :-)
If you need specifics, contact us as I'm sure this not really a CSS
issue.
--
Al Sparber
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mail
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