Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
Hello, Don't know if I really understood the problem... anyway... When I want to remove an instance of a module form the history, for example the Exposure, I add a deactivated version of it on the top of the history. So, I have Exposure activated somewhere in the middle of the stack, and the same deactivated at the top. I select the top or the stack, compress the history, which removes the activated instance and lets the deactivated one still on the top. Then, I select the module straight under the deactivated one, compress the history and... I'm happy. DT doesn't work nor look the same as other photo processing softwares, that's why it is DT - enjoy ! Regards, J.-Luc > Message du 02/02/18 14:32 > De : "Harald" > A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules > after compression - why? > > I do think I am talking about a 3. type of use cases... > > There are for sure many reasons or use cases why not to remove a > disabled module during the photo processing work flow. > > My point is, that at a final step, at the end of the work flow, all the > selections and decisions have been made already. Then and only then I do > want to do the final compress and clean. > > At that point in time a remove of unused or disabled modules would be > very helpful. > > Only this clean stack might be the basis for a new style or used for > copying further. > > Not arrived yet at this final step, in between or during the work flow, > there is no need for removing the entries for disabled modules... > > ... and at that time no need to compress the history stack but at the > end of the process. > > Haribo M > Am 01.02.2018 um 16:46 schrieb Remco Viëtor: > > On jeudi 1 février 2018 15:18:27 CET Matthew Harrison wrote: > >> Why would compress history stack do that? It shouldn't be too hard to > >> check if a module is in the default list and leave disabled copies of those > >> when cleaning up whilst removing the others. > >> > > The current implementation of "compress history stack" has one important > > propery: it does /nothing/ that influences your edit session, it only > > removes > > modules that cannot have an effect. Removing modules that are turned off > > breaks > > that. > > > > Use case: you want to use e.g. equaliser or profiled denoise, perhaps with > > some > > parametric or user mask. Good, no problem, just a bit time consuming to set > > up > > to your liking. Then you want to convert to black and white, or play with > > some > > colour changes. > > Both equaliser and profiled denoise are quite slow (imply a lot of > > calculation). So while you want to play with the conversions, it can be > > nice > > to turn those two off. > > But after playing with colour conversions, you can end up with a lot of > > unused > > modules in the history, > > > > So please leave modules that are just turned off in the stack on > > compressing. > > Perhaps add an option to remove all unused modules (unused == unreachable > > or > > turned off). > > > > Remco > > > > darktable user mailing list > > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > > > > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
I do think I am talking about a 3. type of use cases... There are for sure many reasons or use cases why not to remove a disabled module during the photo processing work flow. My point is, that at a final step, at the end of the work flow, all the selections and decisions have been made already. Then and only then I do want to do the final compress and clean. At that point in time a remove of unused or disabled modules would be very helpful. Only this clean stack might be the basis for a new style or used for copying further. Not arrived yet at this final step, in between or during the work flow, there is no need for removing the entries for disabled modules... ... and at that time no need to compress the history stack but at the end of the process. Haribo M Am 01.02.2018 um 16:46 schrieb Remco Viëtor: > On jeudi 1 février 2018 15:18:27 CET Matthew Harrison wrote: >> Why would compress history stack do that? It shouldn't be too hard to >> check if a module is in the default list and leave disabled copies of those >> when cleaning up whilst removing the others. >> > The current implementation of "compress history stack" has one important > propery: it does /nothing/ that influences your edit session, it only removes > modules that cannot have an effect. Removing modules that are turned off > breaks > that. > > Use case: you want to use e.g. equaliser or profiled denoise, perhaps with > some > parametric or user mask. Good, no problem, just a bit time consuming to set > up > to your liking. Then you want to convert to black and white, or play with > some > colour changes. > Both equaliser and profiled denoise are quite slow (imply a lot of > calculation). So while you want to play with the conversions, it can be nice > to turn those two off. > But after playing with colour conversions, you can end up with a lot of > unused > modules in the history, > > So please leave modules that are just turned off in the stack on compressing. > Perhaps add an option to remove all unused modules (unused == unreachable or > turned off). > > Remco > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
I agree with this scenario: Should not remove disabled module in history stack when compressing it. But I would like to be able to remove any module I want in the history stack (right-click on it and choosing delete, for instance). I've filed a request on redmine about it: https://redmine.darktable.org/issues/11269#change-30820 Best regards, André 2018-02-01 18:13 GMT-02:00 thokster: > Am 01.02.2018 um 19:25 schrieb Pascal Obry: > >> Another scenario as to why the disabled modules should not be removed. >> >> You hesitate between two ways of removing noise (profil denoise, or >> non-local means). One is disabled but you've tweaked the other quite a >> bit on the image and *may want* to enable it and disable the other. >> This is a common scenario for me. So I do not want the compress history >> stack to remove the disabled modules. >> >> +1 > > > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@lis > ts.darktable.org > > -- André Felipe https://www.flickr.com/photos/andrefelipecarvalho/ darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
Am 01.02.2018 um 19:25 schrieb Pascal Obry: Another scenario as to why the disabled modules should not be removed. You hesitate between two ways of removing noise (profil denoise, or non-local means). One is disabled but you've tweaked the other quite a bit on the image and *may want* to enable it and disable the other. This is a common scenario for me. So I do not want the compress history stack to remove the disabled modules. +1 darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
Another scenario as to why the disabled modules should not be removed. You hesitate between two ways of removing noise (profil denoise, or non-local means). One is disabled but you've tweaked the other quite a bit on the image and *may want* to enable it and disable the other. This is a common scenario for me. So I do not want the compress history stack to remove the disabled modules. -- Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) The best way to travel is by means of imagination http://www.obry.net gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
On jeudi 1 février 2018 17:55:14 CET Matthew Harrison wrote: > > I sometimes have multiple versions of the same module with useful > intermediate steps in my history, much the same as your example. Compress > history stack would remove them, so I can't accept your central premise. Well, no, my example was about having a module that you wanted *temporarily* disabled, typically to speed up processing during the rest of the editing. Most often, it would only be present once in the history stack, and you most certainly would want to keep the edits done after those modules. But yes, I phrased that premise badly. The idea was *not* to go back to an earlier stage in the editing process, but to re-add the time-consuming modules after further edits, while keeping anything done since the disabling of those modules. So actually, there are two use cases here: 1- use the history stack to go back to a previous state of your image, / discarding/ all later edits, comparible to the 'undo' history in many other programs. (the use you refer to above) 2- use the history stack to temporarily disable modules, while keeping any settings for later re-activation (the use I described in my previous post), and /keeping/ all subsequent editing steps. At the moment, "compress history stack" cleans out the stack for the 1st use- case, making the 'undo' impossible, while keeping the disabled modules for the 2nd case above. Remco darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
A suggestion: Remove modules that are disabled + reset at compress history stack. Kindly, Anders torsdag den 1. februar 2018 17.55.14 CET skrev Matthew Harrison: > On 1 February 2018 at 15:46, Remco Viëtorwrote: > > The current implementation of "compress history stack" has one important > > propery: it does /nothing/ that influences your edit session, it only > > removes > > modules that cannot have an effect. Removing modules that are turned off > > breaks > > that. > > > > Use case: you want to use e.g. equaliser or profiled denoise, perhaps with > > some > > parametric or user mask. Good, no problem, just a bit time consuming to > > set up > > to your liking. Then you want to convert to black and white, or play with > > some > > colour changes. > > Both equaliser and profiled denoise are quite slow (imply a lot of > > calculation). So while you want to play with the conversions, it can be > > nice > > to turn those two off. > > But after playing with colour conversions, you can end up with a lot of > > unused > > modules in the history, > > > > So please leave modules that are just turned off in the stack on > > compressing. > > Perhaps add an option to remove all unused modules (unused == unreachable > > or > > turned off). > > > > Remco > > I sometimes have multiple versions of the same module with useful > intermediate steps in my history, much the same as your example. Compress > history stack would remove them, so I can't accept your central premise. > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
On 1 February 2018 at 15:46, Remco Viëtorwrote: > > The current implementation of "compress history stack" has one important > propery: it does /nothing/ that influences your edit session, it only > removes > modules that cannot have an effect. Removing modules that are turned off > breaks > that. > > Use case: you want to use e.g. equaliser or profiled denoise, perhaps with > some > parametric or user mask. Good, no problem, just a bit time consuming to > set up > to your liking. Then you want to convert to black and white, or play with > some > colour changes. > Both equaliser and profiled denoise are quite slow (imply a lot of > calculation). So while you want to play with the conversions, it can be > nice > to turn those two off. > But after playing with colour conversions, you can end up with a lot of > unused > modules in the history, > > So please leave modules that are just turned off in the stack on > compressing. > Perhaps add an option to remove all unused modules (unused == unreachable > or > turned off). > > Remco > > I sometimes have multiple versions of the same module with useful intermediate steps in my history, much the same as your example. Compress history stack would remove them, so I can't accept your central premise. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
On jeudi 1 février 2018 15:18:27 CET Matthew Harrison wrote: > Why would compress history stack do that? It shouldn't be too hard to > check if a module is in the default list and leave disabled copies of those > when cleaning up whilst removing the others. > The current implementation of "compress history stack" has one important propery: it does /nothing/ that influences your edit session, it only removes modules that cannot have an effect. Removing modules that are turned off breaks that. Use case: you want to use e.g. equaliser or profiled denoise, perhaps with some parametric or user mask. Good, no problem, just a bit time consuming to set up to your liking. Then you want to convert to black and white, or play with some colour changes. Both equaliser and profiled denoise are quite slow (imply a lot of calculation). So while you want to play with the conversions, it can be nice to turn those two off. But after playing with colour conversions, you can end up with a lot of unused modules in the history, So please leave modules that are just turned off in the stack on compressing. Perhaps add an option to remove all unused modules (unused == unreachable or turned off). Remco darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
On 1 Feb 2018 15:19, "Matthew Harrison"wrote: Why would compress history stack do that [keep disabled modules]? On 31 January 2018 at 18:38, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2018, 19:31:29 CET schrieb Sergii Dymchenko: > > For me having disabled modules in history is very useful, because the > > modules may have some non-default parameters set, and later I may want to > > re-enable them. > > For example, I can apply the watermark module, change some > colors/position, > > export with the watermark. > > Later I can disable the watermark module to export for some other > purpose. > > If I want to export with a watermark again I want it to remember > > colors/position I set before, even after stack compression. > > There is an even more important reason to keep disabled modules: When > turning > off any of the default modules, like sharpen or (for raw files) the > basecurve > you need that entry in the history stack. Removing it will turn the module > back on. > > > -Sergii. > > Tobias > > [...] darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org Suppose you edit a bunch of files, and make use of some plugin (e.g. some version of denoising) in all of them. Then, while processing one file, you realise that denoising module X works better in your case than denoising module Y, which you used previously. So you disable Y, enable X, and clean up (compress) your history. If disabling Y were removed, you wouldn't be able to copy and paste "disabled Y, enabled X" in append mode to your other images, or save this as a style. One could argue that you could, after compressing your history, re-enable and then disable Y so its removal is again (a 'copy-pasteable') part of your stack. Kofa darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
Why would compress history stack do that? It shouldn't be too hard to check if a module is in the default list and leave disabled copies of those when cleaning up whilst removing the others. On 31 January 2018 at 18:38, Tobias Ellinghauswrote: > Am Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2018, 19:31:29 CET schrieb Sergii Dymchenko: > > For me having disabled modules in history is very useful, because the > > modules may have some non-default parameters set, and later I may want to > > re-enable them. > > For example, I can apply the watermark module, change some > colors/position, > > export with the watermark. > > Later I can disable the watermark module to export for some other > purpose. > > If I want to export with a watermark again I want it to remember > > colors/position I set before, even after stack compression. > > There is an even more important reason to keep disabled modules: When > turning > off any of the default modules, like sharpen or (for raw files) the > basecurve > you need that entry in the history stack. Removing it will turn the module > back on. > > > -Sergii. > > Tobias > > [...] darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
Am Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2018, 19:31:29 CET schrieb Sergii Dymchenko: > For me having disabled modules in history is very useful, because the > modules may have some non-default parameters set, and later I may want to > re-enable them. > For example, I can apply the watermark module, change some colors/position, > export with the watermark. > Later I can disable the watermark module to export for some other purpose. > If I want to export with a watermark again I want it to remember > colors/position I set before, even after stack compression. There is an even more important reason to keep disabled modules: When turning off any of the default modules, like sharpen or (for raw files) the basecurve you need that entry in the history stack. Removing it will turn the module back on. > -Sergii. Tobias [...] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
For me having disabled modules in history is very useful, because the modules may have some non-default parameters set, and later I may want to re-enable them. For example, I can apply the watermark module, change some colors/position, export with the watermark. Later I can disable the watermark module to export for some other purpose. If I want to export with a watermark again I want it to remember colors/position I set before, even after stack compression. -Sergii. On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Haraldwrote: > Hi, > > I don't understand why the history stack still contains - or generally > should contain - disabled modules after stack compression. > > I have seen the procedure for cleaning up deselected modules, but it > seems to me to be very complex, especially for multiple deselected > modules within the same stack. > > Unfortunately, I have to disable alternative modules again at a later > stage, due to ongoing module comparisons. > > Would a global function in Lighttable for compressing and deleting > disabled history stack module entries for a group of selected photos be > a useful extension for darktable? > > Any other idea would help to create my own 'clean' styles ... ? > > Thanks and Regards > > Haribo M > > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@ > lists.darktable.org > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
[darktable-user] history stack still containing disabled modules after compression - why?
Hi, I don't understand why the history stack still contains - or generally should contain - disabled modules after stack compression. I have seen the procedure for cleaning up deselected modules, but it seems to me to be very complex, especially for multiple deselected modules within the same stack. Unfortunately, I have to disable alternative modules again at a later stage, due to ongoing module comparisons. Would a global function in Lighttable for compressing and deleting disabled history stack module entries for a group of selected photos be a useful extension for darktable? Any other idea would help to create my own 'clean' styles ... ? Thanks and Regards Haribo M darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org