Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[Pascal Obry]

Le samedi 05 janvier 2019 à 13:58 -0800, David Vincent-Jones a écrit :
> Looks like the problem is solved ... I had a magenta cartridge
> totally fail while still half full. So it was a printer problem and
> not software. Sorry for thinking otherwise.

But then how could this was working with GIMP ?

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[David Vincent-Jones]

Looks like the problem is solved ... I had a magenta cartridge totally
fail while still half full. So it was a printer problem and not
software. Sorry for thinking otherwise.

David

On 2019-01-05 1:18 p.m., Anders Lund wrote:
> lørdag den 5. januar 2019 21.41.09 CET skrev David Vincent-Jones:
>> Thanks Anders  are there any settings outside of the print module
>> that I might have missed. I have been using TP for some years with good
>> results .. this current problem is a real mystery to me.
> I find printing a mystery, but I suspect a good, profiled monitor would solve 
> some of my problems. I use the color adjustments in the driver once in a 
> while, those are available in the dialog that is spawned by dt before 
> printing 
> here.
>
> Kindly,
> Anders
>
>> David
>>
>> On 2019-01-05 9:55 a.m., Anders Lund wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> FWIW, I have no problems printing with dt 2.6 - on the contrary, with this
>>> version printer settings works, and I am also presented with a TP dialog
>>> to
>>> make additional adjustments.
>>>
>>> Colors on my prints are fine.
>>>
>>> I have not got a new TP driver, last I checked 2.46 was the latest
>>> version.
>>>
>>> Kindly,
>>> Anders
>>>
>>> lørdag den 5. januar 2019 00.23.35 CET skrev David Vincent-Jones:
 I am suddenly having problems printing with a new version of TurboPrint
 ... previously my experience was good going directly from dt to TP.

 My Printer settings are: EpsonPhotoR2000-TurboPrint . Media: Epson
 Premium Glossy . profile: color management in printer driver 
 intent: perceptual

 My print settings are: profile: Apple RGB  intent: perceptual

 All of the TP settings are set at the default/100%

 My results are totally cyan dominated.

 If I output a JPG through GIMP/Guttenprint directly to the printer, then
 the results are correct.

 Any ideas would be appreciated.

 David



 _
 ___ darktable user mailing list
 to unsubscribe send a mail to
 darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org> 
>>> __
>>> __ darktable user mailing list
>>> to unsubscribe send a mail to
>>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list
>> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org



pEpkey.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys

Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[Anders Lund]

lørdag den 5. januar 2019 21.41.09 CET skrev David Vincent-Jones:
> Thanks Anders  are there any settings outside of the print module
> that I might have missed. I have been using TP for some years with good
> results .. this current problem is a real mystery to me.

I find printing a mystery, but I suspect a good, profiled monitor would solve 
some of my problems. I use the color adjustments in the driver once in a 
while, those are available in the dialog that is spawned by dt before printing 
here.

Kindly,
Anders

> David
> 
> On 2019-01-05 9:55 a.m., Anders Lund wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > FWIW, I have no problems printing with dt 2.6 - on the contrary, with this
> > version printer settings works, and I am also presented with a TP dialog
> > to
> > make additional adjustments.
> > 
> > Colors on my prints are fine.
> > 
> > I have not got a new TP driver, last I checked 2.46 was the latest
> > version.
> > 
> > Kindly,
> > Anders
> > 
> > lørdag den 5. januar 2019 00.23.35 CET skrev David Vincent-Jones:
> >> I am suddenly having problems printing with a new version of TurboPrint
> >> ... previously my experience was good going directly from dt to TP.
> >> 
> >> My Printer settings are: EpsonPhotoR2000-TurboPrint . Media: Epson
> >> Premium Glossy . profile: color management in printer driver 
> >> intent: perceptual
> >> 
> >> My print settings are: profile: Apple RGB  intent: perceptual
> >> 
> >> All of the TP settings are set at the default/100%
> >> 
> >> My results are totally cyan dominated.
> >> 
> >> If I output a JPG through GIMP/Guttenprint directly to the printer, then
> >> the results are correct.
> >> 
> >> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> >> 
> >> David
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _
> >> ___ darktable user mailing list
> >> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> >> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org> 
> > __
> > __ darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org





darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[David Vincent-Jones]

Thanks Anders  are there any settings outside of the print module
that I might have missed. I have been using TP for some years with good
results .. this current problem is a real mystery to me.

David

On 2019-01-05 9:55 a.m., Anders Lund wrote:
> Hi,
>
> FWIW, I have no problems printing with dt 2.6 - on the contrary, with this 
> version printer settings works, and I am also presented with a TP dialog to 
> make additional adjustments.
>
> Colors on my prints are fine. 
>
> I have not got a new TP driver, last I checked 2.46 was the latest version.
>
> Kindly,
> Anders
>
> lørdag den 5. januar 2019 00.23.35 CET skrev David Vincent-Jones:
>> I am suddenly having problems printing with a new version of TurboPrint
>> ... previously my experience was good going directly from dt to TP.
>>
>> My Printer settings are: EpsonPhotoR2000-TurboPrint . Media: Epson
>> Premium Glossy . profile: color management in printer driver 
>> intent: perceptual
>>
>> My print settings are: profile: Apple RGB  intent: perceptual
>>
>> All of the TP settings are set at the default/100%
>>
>> My results are totally cyan dominated.
>>
>> If I output a JPG through GIMP/Guttenprint directly to the printer, then
>> the results are correct.
>>
>> Any ideas would be appreciated.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list
>> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org



pEpkey.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys

Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[Anders Lund]

Hi,

FWIW, I have no problems printing with dt 2.6 - on the contrary, with this 
version printer settings works, and I am also presented with a TP dialog to 
make additional adjustments.

Colors on my prints are fine. 

I have not got a new TP driver, last I checked 2.46 was the latest version.

Kindly,
Anders

lørdag den 5. januar 2019 00.23.35 CET skrev David Vincent-Jones:
> I am suddenly having problems printing with a new version of TurboPrint
> ... previously my experience was good going directly from dt to TP.
> 
> My Printer settings are: EpsonPhotoR2000-TurboPrint . Media: Epson
> Premium Glossy . profile: color management in printer driver 
> intent: perceptual
> 
> My print settings are: profile: Apple RGB  intent: perceptual
> 
> All of the TP settings are set at the default/100%
> 
> My results are totally cyan dominated.
> 
> If I output a JPG through GIMP/Guttenprint directly to the printer, then
> the results are correct.
> 
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org





darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[David Vincent-Jones]

Thanks for the feedback from all:

Version: darktable 2.7.0+145~gfe2ee31fb  TurboPrint-Studio Version.
2.46-1 (from the Arch repository). Previously I was using 2.36-1
sucessfully (2015).

I have been running with the git version for a long time. I recently
moved from OpenSUSE TW to Manjaro and this necessitated a fresh download
and install of the latest TurboPrint.

I do not believe that I have changed the way that I am using the 'print'
output and my monitor settings are still correct. I have tried several
different settings now for print output but the result is always the
same with totally .. totally .. saturated cyan  we are not talking
about a slight cast! All of the TP settings are set to default and
changing the settings does not appear to make any difference. I am
testing with a basic paper, so no special set-up in TP at all.

Following the suggestion I have deleted a secondary driver (and
re-booted); no change.

David

On 2019-01-05 12:12 a.m., Pascal Obry wrote:
> Hello David,
>
> Let's clarify.
>
> Was the previous good experience with dt 2.4?
>
> Have you already had good print with dt 2.6?
>
> I'm trying to assess if this is a possible regression.
>
> Thanks,
>


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org



pEpkey.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys

Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[Pascal Obry]

Hello David,

Let's clarify.

Was the previous good experience with dt 2.4?

Have you already had good print with dt 2.6?

I'm trying to assess if this is a possible regression.

Thanks,

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[Robert Krawitz]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 15:23:35 -0800, David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> I am suddenly having problems printing with a new version of TurboPrint
> ... previously my experience was good going directly from dt to TP.
>
> My Printer settings are: EpsonPhotoR2000-TurboPrint . Media: Epson
> Premium Glossy . profile: color management in printer driver 
> intent: perceptual
>
> My print settings are: profile: Apple RGB  intent: perceptual
>
> All of the TP settings are set at the default/100%
>
> My results are totally cyan dominated.
>
> If I output a JPG through GIMP/Guttenprint directly to the printer, then
> the results are correct.
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated.

darktable is based on GTK; the Gutenprint plugin for GIMP is actually
generic GTK with a very thin GIMP layer linked to it.  I don't have a
huge amount of time, but if anyone who knows the innards of Darktable
would like to get Gutenprint integration going, I'll do what I can to
help out.
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing with TurboPrint

[J. Paul Bissonnette]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 15:23:35 -0800
David Vincent-Jones  wrote:

> I am suddenly having problems printing with a new version of
> TurboPrint ... previously my experience was good going directly from
> dt to TP.
> 
> My Printer settings are: EpsonPhotoR2000-TurboPrint . Media: Epson
> Premium Glossy . profile: color management in printer driver 
> intent: perceptual
> 
> My print settings are: profile: Apple RGB  intent: perceptual
> 
> All of the TP settings are set at the default/100%
> 
> My results are totally cyan dominated.
> 
> If I output a JPG through GIMP/Guttenprint directly to the printer,
> then the results are correct.
> 
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 

I had printing problems with a Canon printer. Try removing all printer
drivers other than TurboPrint. It seemed to work with me.

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

torsdag den 13. september 2018 17.16.51 CEST skrev Timur Irikovich Davletshin:
> On Thu, 2018-09-13 at 16:52 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> > torsdag den 13. september 2018 16.27.39 CEST skrev Anders Lund:
> > >  However, I can't seem to get it to print
> > > borderless from dt. This is a key issue for me, does that work for
> > > you out
> > > there?
> > 
> > Not from withing digikam either.  :\
> 
> Have you tried to set "borderless" in driver settings (e.g via link I
> sent before) before printing?
> 
> Timur.

Yes. In the turboprint control, in the layout tab, A4 is selected and 
Borderless checkbox checked. This is also displayed as expected in the printer 
properties dialog in digikam print creator, as the page size is shown as "A4 
Borderless". Judging from the docs, this is how it works in tp, if you want to 
create a custom page size, you have to decide if it is for borderless or not.

I wrote zedonet and asked if this is a nagware issue, because actually I'm in 
doubt, but no answer so far.

---
Kindly,
Anders



darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Thu, 2018-09-13 at 16:27 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> onsdag den 12. september 2018 22.46.19 CEST skrev Timur Irikovich
> Davletshin:
> > On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 22:23 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> > > Manufacturer provided drivers of good quality is one of the
> > > reasons
> > > for 
> > > getting an Epson printer. :)
> > 
> > Linux drivers from Epson have mediocre quality often with lower
> > resolution and no advanced features like color management. Works
> > for
> > office job, but this is not why we buy Epson printers...
> 
> http://nc.alweb.dk/index.php/s/WEI1JVN4Af7lfnm
> 
> Here is a (mobile) photo of two prints of the same image, the
> turboprint 
> result on the right have a grenish tint, compared the the  result of
> the epson 
> driver. Of cause this may be fixed by fiddeling with the color
> controls in the 
> turboprint driver settings, but it does not appear an easy task!
> Alternative 
> could be to buy a profile from zedonet. The turboprint print also
> have better 
> contrast in the shadows (the trees in the background, the wawes and
> dark 
> clothing)
> 
> Both prints are printed on epson semigloss paper in best quality (as
> provided 
> by each driver).
> 
> The epson driver print looks much more like what is on my screen, and
> both the 
> exported jpeg (srgb) and the digikam darkroom and print view display
> of the 
> photo.
> 
> I did a test more, trying to compensate for the green tint on the
> turboprint 
> print, with some degree of succes. However, I can't seem to get it to
> print 
> borderless from dt. This is a key issue for me, does that work for
> you out 
> there?
> 
> Kindly,
> Anders
> 

I know nothing about printing from dt, I just don't use it. Regarding
your green tint problem: it would be nice to see original digital
picture for fair judgement. Comparing display with prints gives little
information if your display is not color calibrated. In my case the
only thing I play with is brightness — I increase it a bit for pictures
with lots of dark shades before printing.

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

onsdag den 12. september 2018 22.46.19 CEST skrev Timur Irikovich Davletshin:
> On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 22:23 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> > Manufacturer provided drivers of good quality is one of the reasons
> > for 
> > getting an Epson printer. :)
> 
> Linux drivers from Epson have mediocre quality often with lower
> resolution and no advanced features like color management. Works for
> office job, but this is not why we buy Epson printers...

http://nc.alweb.dk/index.php/s/WEI1JVN4Af7lfnm

Here is a (mobile) photo of two prints of the same image, the turboprint 
result on the right have a grenish tint, compared the the  result of the epson 
driver. Of cause this may be fixed by fiddeling with the color controls in the 
turboprint driver settings, but it does not appear an easy task! Alternative 
could be to buy a profile from zedonet. The turboprint print also have better 
contrast in the shadows (the trees in the background, the wawes and dark 
clothing)

Both prints are printed on epson semigloss paper in best quality (as provided 
by each driver).

The epson driver print looks much more like what is on my screen, and both the 
exported jpeg (srgb) and the digikam darkroom and print view display of the 
photo.

I did a test more, trying to compensate for the green tint on the turboprint 
print, with some degree of succes. However, I can't seem to get it to print 
borderless from dt. This is a key issue for me, does that work for you out 
there?

Kindly,
Anders





darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Michael Below]

Definitely true, but printing by yourself offers more choice of paper and a 
quicker processing of test prints.

Am 13. September 2018 15:28:33 MESZ schrieb "Remco Viëtor" 
:
>On jeudi 13 septembre 2018 14:31:03 CEST Robert Krawitz wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 14:06:22 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
>> > torsdag den 13. september 2018 13.38.12 CEST skrev Pascal Obry:
>> >> Le jeu. 13 sept. 2018 à 12:51, Anders Lund  a
>écrit :
>> >> > Bu I still do not get to configure printer settings, like
>quality and
>> >> > optional
>> >> > borderless printing...
>> >> 
>> >> Ah indeed, I have done this early 2018 and the work was merged on
>2018
>> >> Jan
>> >> 10th.
>> >> 
>> >> So starting with next major release (2.6) you'll see the
>TurboPrint
>> >> dialog.
>> > 
>> > That sounds very good, I'll look forward to that! :)
>> 
>> So what's the solution for people who don't want to purchase
>> TurboPrint?
>
>And it sounds like a good print shop is the best solution for
>"occasional" 
>prints (not cheap, but neither is printing for yourself, apparently)
>
>Remco.
>
>
>darktable user mailing list
>to unsubscribe send a mail to
>darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 13 septembre 2018 14:31:03 CEST Robert Krawitz wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 14:06:22 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> > torsdag den 13. september 2018 13.38.12 CEST skrev Pascal Obry:
> >> Le jeu. 13 sept. 2018 à 12:51, Anders Lund  a écrit :
> >> > Bu I still do not get to configure printer settings, like quality and
> >> > optional
> >> > borderless printing...
> >> 
> >> Ah indeed, I have done this early 2018 and the work was merged on 2018
> >> Jan
> >> 10th.
> >> 
> >> So starting with next major release (2.6) you'll see the TurboPrint
> >> dialog.
> > 
> > That sounds very good, I'll look forward to that! :)
> 
> So what's the solution for people who don't want to purchase
> TurboPrint?

And it sounds like a good print shop is the best solution for "occasional" 
prints (not cheap, but neither is printing for yourself, apparently)

Remco.


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Pascal Obry]

Le jeu. 13 sept. 2018 à 14:31, Robert Krawitz  a écrit :

> So what's the solution for people who don't want to purchase
> TurboPrint?
>

As already explained here : none less costly

Or just print as-is but don't expect exhibition like quality.

You may also want to create your own profile:
https://encrypted.pcode.nl/blog/2018/06/18/practical-printer-profiling-with-gutenprint/

I had done so, and wrote also so article about this. But at some point the
rendering was broken and I didn't have the energy to recreate for the 3rd
time my profiles. Also not the energy to create a profile for all my
papers. At the end of the day TurboPrint is far less costly and works very
nicely.

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://photos.obry.net
  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Robert Krawitz]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 14:06:22 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> torsdag den 13. september 2018 13.38.12 CEST skrev Pascal Obry:
>> Le jeu. 13 sept. 2018 à 12:51, Anders Lund  a écrit :
>> > Bu I still do not get to configure printer settings, like quality and
>> > optional
>> > borderless printing...
>> 
>> Ah indeed, I have done this early 2018 and the work was merged on 2018 Jan
>> 10th.
>> 
>> So starting with next major release (2.6) you'll see the TurboPrint dialog.
>
> That sounds very good, I'll look forward to that! :)

So what's the solution for people who don't want to purchase
TurboPrint?
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

torsdag den 13. september 2018 13.38.12 CEST skrev Pascal Obry:
> Le jeu. 13 sept. 2018 à 12:51, Anders Lund  a écrit :
> > Bu I still do not get to configure printer settings, like quality and
> > optional
> > borderless printing...
> 
> Ah indeed, I have done this early 2018 and the work was merged on 2018 Jan
> 10th.
> 
> So starting with next major release (2.6) you'll see the TurboPrint dialog.

That sounds very good, I'll look forward to that! :)

---
Kindly,
Anders




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Robert Krawitz]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:34:24 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> torsdag den 13. september 2018 07.45.39 CEST skrev Pascal Obry:
>> As I said the paper manufacturer are providing ICC profile
>> for all theirs papers for Windows and Mac drivers, but not for
>> GNU/Linux one.
>
> Wouldn't those icc profiles be the same on linux systems?

Not if the drivers differ.
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Pascal Obry]

Le jeu. 13 sept. 2018 à 12:51, Anders Lund  a écrit :

> Bu I still do not get to configure printer settings, like quality and
> optional
> borderless printing...


Ah indeed, I have done this early 2018 and the work was merged on 2018 Jan
10th.

So starting with next major release (2.6) you'll see the TurboPrint dialog.

Best,

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://photos.obry.net
  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

torsdag den 13. september 2018 12.56.35 CEST skrev Timur Irikovich Davletshin:
> It does provide things you mentioned via TurboPrint Control panel or
> via standard https://localhost:631/admin/ web interface.

Yes, the control center ot monitor is what I use. I just have to try and 
remember each time :)

Kindly,
Anders



darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

torsdag den 13. september 2018 13.01.28 CEST skrev Timur Irikovich Davletshin:
> TurboPrint comes with nice Gimp plugin (File → TurboPrint). All options
> are available there.

I appreciate that, but I haven't even GIMP installed here. :)

Kindly,
Anders




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Thu, 2018-09-13 at 12:50 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> > I'll be trying out turboprint, then :)
> 
> So I installed Turboprint, and got the daemon running. I can now
> select a 
> turboprint version of my epson printer in dt.
> 
> Turboprint does not provide a paperclass for my semigloss paper, they
> suggest 
> glossy, but recommends a specific profile, that they will sell (which
> is fine, 
> when I get decide on some media to work on).
> 
> Bu I still do not get to configure printer settings, like quality and
> optional 
> borderless printing in digikam, I have to do it in the turboprint
> ui. 
> Something to check for each print or set of prints. It would be nice
> if the 
> settings dialog were displayed by dt prior to actually printing.
> Another 
> benefit of this would be the preview the dialog provides, it would
> for example 
> show the nagware logo.
> 
> This setup apparently does not provide any means for controlling
> crop, but my 
> 2:3 photos needs to be cropped to actually fille a DIN A4 paper, so
> to produce 
> a print filling the paper, I first need to use the crop and rotate
> module. 
> Given a margin, this would require math skills applied and a custom
> crop, so 
> it would be nice if the print view could provide a cropping tool.
> 
> Turbo
> 
> So I did this: 
> Selected a photo for printing
> Crop to DINA aspect for printing on A4
> Margins set to 0
> An additional style selected, append mode.
> Enabled borderless in Turboprint control for the printer
> Selected "Glossy" paper type in turboprint control.
> Selected high quality in the turboprint control.
> 
> I printed on a Epson premium semigloss paper.
> 
> Result:
> Turboprint is faster than the epson driver printing in "Photo Best"   
> quality.
> Very nice quality print, good, clear colors and no problems with
> ink  :-)
> Style was not applied. (I use style in a similar way in export
> presets, for 
> example for adding watermarks, there it works.)
> A BIG, UGLY turboprint logo on the print, even their docs says it
> will appear 
> AFTER the 30 day free trial period, only if you don't buy a licence.
> I 
> installed from aur (archlinux user repository), which may differ from
> the 
> trial package one can download from turboprint.info.
> 
> Conclusion:
> I'd really like to try printing without the nagware logo before
> buying a 
> licence, althoug the price isn't a problem.
> 
> Good support in dt is missing, as in the printing options are not
> made 
> available prior to printing. It is really not better than using the
> epson cups 
> driver in this respect. Not sure about the quality yet. 
> 
> Kindly,
> Anders
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> ___
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@lists.darkta
> ble.org
> 

TurboPrint comes with nice Gimp plugin (File → TurboPrint). All options
are available there.

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Thu, 2018-09-13 at 12:50 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> > I'll be trying out turboprint, then :)
> 
> So I installed Turboprint, and got the daemon running. I can now
> select a 
> turboprint version of my epson printer in dt.
> 
> Turboprint does not provide a paperclass for my semigloss paper, they
> suggest 
> glossy, but recommends a specific profile, that they will sell (which
> is fine, 
> when I get decide on some media to work on).
> 
> Bu I still do not get to configure printer settings, like quality and
> optional 
> borderless printing in digikam, I have to do it in the turboprint
> ui. 
> Something to check for each print or set of prints. It would be nice
> if the 
> settings dialog were displayed by dt prior to actually printing.
> Another 
> benefit of this would be the preview the dialog provides, it would
> for example 
> show the nagware logo.
> 
> This setup apparently does not provide any means for controlling
> crop, but my 
> 2:3 photos needs to be cropped to actually fille a DIN A4 paper, so
> to produce 
> a print filling the paper, I first need to use the crop and rotate
> module. 
> Given a margin, this would require math skills applied and a custom
> crop, so 
> it would be nice if the print view could provide a cropping tool.
> 
> Turbo
> 
> So I did this: 
> Selected a photo for printing
> Crop to DINA aspect for printing on A4
> Margins set to 0
> An additional style selected, append mode.
> Enabled borderless in Turboprint control for the printer
> Selected "Glossy" paper type in turboprint control.
> Selected high quality in the turboprint control.
> 
> I printed on a Epson premium semigloss paper.
> 
> Result:
> Turboprint is faster than the epson driver printing in "Photo Best"   
> quality.
> Very nice quality print, good, clear colors and no problems with
> ink  :-)
> Style was not applied. (I use style in a similar way in export
> presets, for 
> example for adding watermarks, there it works.)
> A BIG, UGLY turboprint logo on the print, even their docs says it
> will appear 
> AFTER the 30 day free trial period, only if you don't buy a licence.
> I 
> installed from aur (archlinux user repository), which may differ from
> the 
> trial package one can download from turboprint.info.
> 
> Conclusion:
> I'd really like to try printing without the nagware logo before
> buying a 
> licence, althoug the price isn't a problem.
> 
> Good support in dt is missing, as in the printing options are not
> made 
> available prior to printing. It is really not better than using the
> epson cups 
> driver in this respect. Not sure about the quality yet. 
> 
> Kindly,
> Anders
> 

It does provide things you mentioned via TurboPrint Control panel or
via standard https://localhost:631/admin/ web interface.

Timur.

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

> I'll be trying out turboprint, then :)

So I installed Turboprint, and got the daemon running. I can now select a 
turboprint version of my epson printer in dt.

Turboprint does not provide a paperclass for my semigloss paper, they suggest 
glossy, but recommends a specific profile, that they will sell (which is fine, 
when I get decide on some media to work on).

Bu I still do not get to configure printer settings, like quality and optional 
borderless printing in digikam, I have to do it in the turboprint ui. 
Something to check for each print or set of prints. It would be nice if the 
settings dialog were displayed by dt prior to actually printing. Another 
benefit of this would be the preview the dialog provides, it would for example 
show the nagware logo.

This setup apparently does not provide any means for controlling crop, but my 
2:3 photos needs to be cropped to actually fille a DIN A4 paper, so to produce 
a print filling the paper, I first need to use the crop and rotate module. 
Given a margin, this would require math skills applied and a custom crop, so 
it would be nice if the print view could provide a cropping tool.

Turbo

So I did this: 
Selected a photo for printing
Crop to DINA aspect for printing on A4
Margins set to 0
An additional style selected, append mode.
Enabled borderless in Turboprint control for the printer
Selected "Glossy" paper type in turboprint control.
Selected high quality in the turboprint control.

I printed on a Epson premium semigloss paper.

Result:
Turboprint is faster than the epson driver printing in "Photo Best" quality.
Very nice quality print, good, clear colors and no problems with ink  :-)
Style was not applied. (I use style in a similar way in export presets, for 
example for adding watermarks, there it works.)
A BIG, UGLY turboprint logo on the print, even their docs says it will appear 
AFTER the 30 day free trial period, only if you don't buy a licence. I 
installed from aur (archlinux user repository), which may differ from the 
trial package one can download from turboprint.info.

Conclusion:
I'd really like to try printing without the nagware logo before buying a 
licence, althoug the price isn't a problem.

Good support in dt is missing, as in the printing options are not made 
available prior to printing. It is really not better than using the epson cups 
driver in this respect. Not sure about the quality yet. 

Kindly,
Anders


 





darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Thu, 2018-09-13 at 11:26 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> 
> My current workflow is exporting from dt. I set the output profile to
> adobeRGB 
> or ProPhotoRGB colorspace. There is visible difference in the result.
> 
> Kindly,
> Anders

Problem is that (as far as I understand) prorpietary Epson driver
expects printed picture to come in sRGB (unless you are lucky to have
AdobeRGB option in you driver) and if you feed it with AdobeRGB it will
give nothing but a bit desaturated colors. With ProPhoto RGB effect
probably will be more pronounced. Maybe you will find this effect more
pleasing (let's say more "natural" colors), but it has nothing todo
with correct reproduction.

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

torsdag den 13. september 2018 08.37.42 CEST skrev Timur Irikovich Davletshin:
> Then I wonder how you used Photo RGB and Adobe RGB, official drivers
> for consumer printers are sRGB calibrated by default and Adobe RGB
> option is available only for selected models. Sure it will print
> something, but I doubt that color reproduction will be right.

My current workflow is exporting from dt. I set the output profile to adobeRGB 
or ProPhotoRGB colorspace. There is visible difference in the result.

Kindly,
Anders




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Pascal Obry]

Le jeu. 13 sept. 2018 à 08:35, Anders Lund  a écrit :

> Wouldn't those icc profiles be the same on linux systems?
>

No, and that's the whole issue. An ICC profile depends on the paper, the
printer and the driver. That's why the WIndows and Mac ICC are not the
same. And until the paper manufacturer see GNU/Linux as a market there is
no luck.

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://photos.obry.net
  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Thu, 2018-09-13 at 08:34 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> 
> Wouldn't those icc profiles be the same on linux systems?
> 
> Anders
> 

ICC profiles are driver and paper dependent, so I doubt.

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Thu, 2018-09-13 at 08:31 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> 
> AFAICT the epson inkjet driver for my printer is on par with the
> windows one. 
> No feature mentioned in the printer documentation is missing,
> although an 
> extra application is required for checking ink levels, and initiating
> cleaning 
> and nozzle check from the PC. icc support is not available in
> windows/mac 
> drivers either, but that is of course a problem if using non-epson
> papers and/
> or inks. However, it does produce nice prints, to my limited
> understanding.
> 
> Anders
> 

Then I wonder how you used Photo RGB and Adobe RGB, official drivers
for consumer printers are sRGB calibrated by default and Adobe RGB
option is available only for selected models. Sure it will print
something, but I doubt that color reproduction will be right.

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

torsdag den 13. september 2018 07.45.39 CEST skrev Pascal Obry:
> As I said the paper manufacturer are providing ICC profile
> for all theirs papers for Windows and Mac drivers, but not for
> GNU/Linux one.

Wouldn't those icc profiles be the same on linux systems?

Anders



darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Michael Below]

Hi,

I think the icc profiles could be collected in an online database like dt 
styles or film development recipes. Probably there will be a need for some 
quality feedback mechanisms, like user reviews or something, but to my 
impression there are a quite a number of people out there with profiling 
hardware that may share their icc profiles.

In my view, the issue is hardware support. E. G. Gutenprint supports only one 
printer in the current xp range of Epson photo printers. That is 
understandable, but in this instance turboprint has better support. 

Cheers
Michael

Am 13. September 2018 07:45:39 MESZ schrieb Pascal Obry :
>Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 18:39 -0400, Robert Krawitz a écrit :
>> I would be happy to discuss what's needed to implement a Gutenprint
>> driver for Darktable.
>
>There is a Gutenprint driver for GNU/Linux (this is not dt specific).
>The issue is the color rendering and management not the driver itself.
>You can print on almost any printer with CUPS+Gutenprint.
>
>Now the color management is a VERY hard issue and not something we can
>do ourself. As I said the paper manufacturer are providing ICC profile
>for all theirs papers for Windows and Mac drivers, but not for
>GNU/Linux one.
>
>That's why TurboPrint is a good solution, they come with a driver and
>color management with a good set of paper.
>
>Hope this clarifies the situation, sorry if I was not clear before.
>
>Best,

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Thu, 2018-09-13 at 07:42 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> 
> I'll be trying out turboprint, then :)
> 

My older Epson was lucky to have native Linux driver (P50) and that was
a very sad story. AFAIR, it was not actually developed by Epson but
rather subcontractor hired by Epson. It lacked ICC color management,
just paper presets (sure, only for Epson paper), maximum resolution
(available in Windows) was not available and many other marketing
limitations. Though it was capable of decent quality but was never
satisfied with it. Sure, you better try it yourself. If you print more
than 50-100 picture a year it totally worth it, IMO.

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Pascal Obry]

Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 18:39 -0400, Robert Krawitz a écrit :
> I would be happy to discuss what's needed to implement a Gutenprint
> driver for Darktable.

There is a Gutenprint driver for GNU/Linux (this is not dt specific).
The issue is the color rendering and management not the driver itself.
You can print on almost any printer with CUPS+Gutenprint.

Now the color management is a VERY hard issue and not something we can
do ourself. As I said the paper manufacturer are providing ICC profile
for all theirs papers for Windows and Mac drivers, but not for
GNU/Linux one.

That's why TurboPrint is a good solution, they come with a driver and
color management with a good set of paper.

Hope this clarifies the situation, sorry if I was not clear before.

Best,

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

onsdag den 12. september 2018 22.46.19 CEST skrev Timur Irikovich Davletshin:
> On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 22:23 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> > Manufacturer provided drivers of good quality is one of the reasons
> > for 
> > getting an Epson printer. :)
> 
> Linux drivers from Epson have mediocre quality often with lower
> resolution and no advanced features like color management. Works for
> office job, but this is not why we buy Epson printers...
> 
> Timur.

I'll be trying out turboprint, then :)




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Robert Krawitz]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 22:59:24 +0200, Pascal Obry wrote:
> Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 =C3  23:53 +0300, Timur Irikovich 
> Davletshina =C3=A9crit :
>> 
>> http://www.turboprint.info/printer_Epson_StylusPro3880.html =E2=80" have you
>> tried it? I'm using Turboprint for ~3 years and I'm satisfied with it.
>
> Yes, that's what I'm using too. I was speaking about CUPS+Gutenprint in
> my previous message.
>
> As I said I have implemented the TurboPrint dialog in darktable as
> that's what we have the best on GNU/Linux at this stage.

I would be happy to discuss what's needed to implement a Gutenprint
driver for Darktable.
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Pascal Obry]

Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 23:53 +0300, Timur Irikovich 
Davletshina écrit :
> 
> http://www.turboprint.info/printer_Epson_StylusPro3880.html — have you
> tried it? I'm using Turboprint for ~3 years and I'm satisfied with it.

Yes, that's what I'm using too. I was speaking about CUPS+Gutenprint in
my previous message.

As I said I have implemented the TurboPrint dialog in darktable as
that's what we have the best on GNU/Linux at this stage.

Best,

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 22:40 +0200, Pascal Obry wrote:
> Sadly if you are speaking about https://epson.com/Support/wa00821
> then
> Epson is not providing drivers for Stylus Pro 3880 on GNU/Linux for
> example :) So they are not covering all printers, I don't really know
> what is the status of those drivers BTW.
> 
> If you are not speaking about this Web site, then Epson is nowhere in
> the loop, CUPS and Gutenprint are Open Source and fully indépendant
> from Epson. And not a single paper manufacturer are providing ICC for
> CUPS Linux drivers.
> 
> A sad story, but that's the current state of things!
> 

http://www.turboprint.info/printer_Epson_StylusPro3880.html — have you
tried it? I'm using Turboprint for ~3 years and I'm satisfied with it.

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 22:23 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> Manufacturer provided drivers of good quality is one of the reasons
> for 
> getting an Epson printer. :)
> 

Linux drivers from Epson have mediocre quality often with lower
resolution and no advanced features like color management. Works for
office job, but this is not why we buy Epson printers...

Timur.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Pascal Obry]

Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 22:23 +0200, Anders Lund a écrit :
> Manufacturer provided drivers of good quality is one of the reasons for 
> getting an Epson printer. :)

Sadly if you are speaking about https://epson.com/Support/wa00821 then
Epson is not providing drivers for Stylus Pro 3880 on GNU/Linux for
example :) So they are not covering all printers, I don't really know
what is the status of those drivers BTW.

If you are not speaking about this Web site, then Epson is nowhere in
the loop, CUPS and Gutenprint are Open Source and fully indépendant
from Epson. And not a single paper manufacturer are providing ICC for
CUPS Linux drivers.

A sad story, but that's the current state of things!

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

onsdag den 12. september 2018 21.49.42 CEST skrev Pascal Obry:
> Maybe you are a lucky one with a perfect CUPS Gutenprint driver. But
> this is very very rare and printing without color management with CUPS
> is generally giving very bad (and yes I do mean very bad) results when
> it comes to color rendered on paper.

Manufacturer provided drivers of good quality is one of the reasons for 
getting an Epson printer. :)




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-09-12 21:49:42, Pascal Obry wrote:

Maybe you are a lucky one with a perfect CUPS Gutenprint driver. But
this is very very rare and printing without color management with CUPS
is generally giving very bad (and yes I do mean very bad) results when
it comes to color rendered on paper.


I must confess that these days I tend to just send stuff off to the 
print shop...


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Pascal Obry]

Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 21:37 +0200, Anders Lund a écrit :
> I'm not looking for color management, 

You should as we are speaking about printing pictures :)

> I don't understand why using cups is a problem for dt, since other 
> applications use it without problems.

Maybe you are a lucky one with a perfect CUPS Gutenprint driver. But
this is very very rare and printing without color management with CUPS
is generally giving very bad (and yes I do mean very bad) results when
it comes to color rendered on paper.

And this is NOT only a GNU/Linux issue. I know nobody printing pictures
without a profile on Photoshop or Lightroom on Windows. Color
management is not an option when you want good quality. Now the
situation is a bit better on Windows where the drivers are more
neutral.

Best,

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

onsdag den 12. september 2018 18.20.00 CEST skrev Pascal Obry:
> Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 12:25 +0300, Timur Irikovich Davletshin
> 
> a écrit :
> > It's better to address this issue to developers, e.g. Pascal Obry.
> 
> If you're using TurboPrint then yes there is a dialog displayed where
> you can select all options.
> 
> Now this is not done for the standard Gtk+ dialog because it is not
> possible to get good results if you change random values in the printer
> driver like Gutenprint. Currently the color management in CUPS is
> disabled (by dt) so all the jobs must be done before. When using
> TurboPrint you'll see a message in printer ICC saying:
> 
>"color management in printer driver"
> 
> So for now I would highly recommend using TurboPrint to get high
> quality print with darktable.

I'm not looking for color management, but for the ability to select
- print quality
- paper type
- boarderless on/off
- safe paper size selection (which is also likely simpler than the present 
list)

I currently mostly prints with digikam print creator, since that is the 
closest. I export my file using ProPhotoRGB profile from dt, and the printer 
(or printer driver) handles the color management, likely based on paper type 
selection.

I never tried using turboprint, but cups works with the driver provided by 
epson, which is producing very good results.

I don't understand why using cups is a problem for dt, since other 
applications use it without problems.

Kindly,
Anders




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Pascal Obry]

Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 12:25 +0300, Timur Irikovich Davletshin
a écrit :
> It's better to address this issue to developers, e.g. Pascal Obry.

If you're using TurboPrint then yes there is a dialog displayed where
you can select all options.

Now this is not done for the standard Gtk+ dialog because it is not
possible to get good results if you change random values in the printer
driver like Gutenprint. Currently the color management in CUPS is
disabled (by dt) so all the jobs must be done before. When using
TurboPrint you'll see a message in printer ICC saying:

   "color management in printer driver"

So for now I would highly recommend using TurboPrint to get high
quality print with darktable.

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing - a different problem

[Anton Aylward]

On 2018-09-12 2:53 a.m., Anders Lund wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I just tried the printing functionality in dt.

I tried it some while ago and was both impressed (with the work that had been
done) and frustrated )in that it seemed to suffer from tunnel vision).

> First, I did not get presented with printer settings, 

I did, and that was the problem.
I have a B laser; a very nice one, but it is B

If I want colour I have to ship the images off to one of the on-line services.
This isn't too bad. I can make custom seasonal greeting cards that way for
around $0.15 each, which is actually better than store bought ones. (perhaps
they have to recover the cost of copyright on the tacky image and the tacky
verse inside whereas I can supply my own tacky image and my own tacky verse.)

The downside is that these services are hung up on traditional sizes that photo
shops have been dealing with for more than a century now, and that doesn't quite
correspond to the size of the images that I generate.  But the DT print module
does supply those constraints :-)

I have an inkjet printer in the basement, a discard.  I found it was more
trouble than it was worth for the use I made of it.   I don't need colour
printing in my day to day work flow, only occasionally, and then in batches, and
that type of printer is not suited to batches.  That's why I use the print
services.  A fast (aka laser) colour printer is beyond my budget.

So my problem is that while the DT print tool is very nice, it outputs to the
printer and not a JPG or TIFF that I can send off to the print service.
I have to work out the rations by hand and do a regular export.

Or is there an export function in the print module that I missed?




-- 
The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy
way to factor large prime numbers.-- Bill Gates, _The Road Ahead_

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 10:49 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> A good reason for working on this: Printing from digikam, without
> having to 
> export a jpg first, yelds significantly better results here, when
> exporting 
> sRGB jpeg. Colors are simply not as good after the jpeg step. 
> 
> I'm yet to try exporting using adobeRGB and/or prophoto colorspaces,
> which may 
> help a bit.
> 
> Kindly,
> Anders

In my own opinion Adobe RGB give much better results regardless bit
depth of file (8 or 16 bit). Exporting to TIFF is not a problem in dt.
Difference between JPG and TIFF (both in Adobe RGB, 8 bit) is
negligible on small formats like A4-A3. But you better make your  own
tests with something like this — https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wXnh
8dNmtzbPylFD5Ezjcv4uQ_aBP0LH

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

onsdag den 12. september 2018 10.49.55 CEST skrev Anders Lund:
> onsdag den 12. september 2018 08.53.09 CEST skrev Anders Lund:
> > Hello,
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Anyone knows if this part of dt is being worked on?
> 
> A good reason for working on this: Printing from digikam, without having to
> export a jpg first, yelds significantly better results here, when exporting
> sRGB jpeg. Colors are simply not as good after the jpeg step.
> 
> I'm yet to try exporting using adobeRGB and/or prophoto colorspaces, which
> may help a bit.

Now tried, and there is a huge difference. As expected, ProPhotoRGB > AdobeRGB 
> sRGB, and that is clearly visible in the prints, while on my laptop display 
(very poor) the difference is very small. Probably, exporting to high quality 
tiff or png is also better than using jpeg.

If you have digikam installed, you can 
cp /usr/share/digikam/profiles/prophoto.icm ~/.config/darktable/color/out/ 
and restart dt to use the ProPhotoRGB colorspace in the color/output color 
profile module. (you probably need to create ~/.config/darktable/color/out 
first). 
The similar paths for windows/mac are unknown to me.

Kindly,
Anders






darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

onsdag den 12. september 2018 08.53.09 CEST skrev Anders Lund:
> Hello,

[...]

> Anyone knows if this part of dt is being worked on?

A good reason for working on this: Printing from digikam, without having to 
export a jpg first, yelds significantly better results here, when exporting 
sRGB jpeg. Colors are simply not as good after the jpeg step. 

I'm yet to try exporting using adobeRGB and/or prophoto colorspaces, which may 
help a bit.

Kindly,
Anders 




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

onsdag den 12. september 2018 10.14.54 CEST skrev Timur Irikovich Davletshin:
> On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 08:53 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I just tried the printing functionality in dt.
> > 
> > First, I did not get presented with printer settings, so I had to set
> > the 
> > printer defaults (using kde systemsettings and system-config-printer
> > in my 
> > case).
> > 
> > The paper size list in the printing section of dt is not matching the
> > list of 
> > papers supported by the printer, and the very common (at least in
> > europe) size 
> > 13*18cm is missing.
> > 
> > I wanted to apply a style, and selected one in the list - but it was
> > not 
> > applied.
> > 
> > My printer is an Epson 1500w, and the driver is the one provided by
> > epson (and 
> > recommended by openprinting).
> > 
> > Anyone knows if this part of dt is being worked on?
> > 
> > Kindly,
> > Anders
> 
> As far as I know this is still impossible. This question has been
> adressed couple times already, you can search mailing list for "printer
> settings" and "printer colors". In my case (Turboprint drivers) I have
> to set required settings (like paper type, color profiles) as default
> and print from darktable with default settings. Or, which is more
> convinient, from Turboprint's Gimp plugin.

Couldn't dt use the system printing dialog? (that could be a gtk one, if such 
a thing exists?)

In digikams print creation tool, a dialog is displayed that includes the 
printer specific options, using kde/qt ui.

Kindly,
Anders




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 08:53 +0200, Anders Lund wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I just tried the printing functionality in dt.
> 
> First, I did not get presented with printer settings, so I had to set
> the 
> printer defaults (using kde systemsettings and system-config-printer
> in my 
> case).
> 
> The paper size list in the printing section of dt is not matching the
> list of 
> papers supported by the printer, and the very common (at least in
> europe) size 
> 13*18cm is missing.
> 
> I wanted to apply a style, and selected one in the list - but it was
> not 
> applied.
> 
> My printer is an Epson 1500w, and the driver is the one provided by
> epson (and 
> recommended by openprinting).
> 
> Anyone knows if this part of dt is being worked on?
> 
> Kindly,
> Anders
> 

As far as I know this is still impossible. This question has been
adressed couple times already, you can search mailing list for "printer
settings" and "printer colors". In my case (Turboprint drivers) I have
to set required settings (like paper type, color profiles) as default
and print from darktable with default settings. Or, which is more
convinient, from Turboprint's Gimp plugin.

Timur.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

More: I find that the dt printing tool handles margins correctly, as opposed 
to the digikam printing tool. That is, with dt I can have a white border on my 
prints using margin, I have not been able to achieve that using digikam yet.

Kindly,
Anders

onsdag den 12. september 2018 08.53.09 CEST skrev Anders Lund:
> Hello,
> 
> I just tried the printing functionality in dt.
> 
> First, I did not get presented with printer settings, so I had to set the
> printer defaults (using kde systemsettings and system-config-printer in my
> case).
> 
> The paper size list in the printing section of dt is not matching the list
> of papers supported by the printer, and the very common (at least in
> europe) size 13*18cm is missing.
> 
> I wanted to apply a style, and selected one in the list - but it was not
> applied.
> 
> My printer is an Epson 1500w, and the driver is the one provided by epson
> (and recommended by openprinting).
> 
> Anyone knows if this part of dt is being worked on?
> 
> Kindly,
> Anders
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org





darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Anders Lund]

Hi Michael,

onsdag den 12. september 2018 09.08.02 CEST skrev Michael Below:
> Hi,
> I just got an Epson printer, and found the printer module to be working
> fine:

Which printer? And which driver? Is it a turpoprint provided one?

> I am using Turboprint, including the printer setup tool, with one of their
> paper profiles. The colours are fine. Don't know about 13*18, though.

I don't have problems with printer/color quality. The stylus 1500W is a 
"proconsumer" grade printer, and there is not direct access to using .icc 
files, I believe it handles that internally based on paper choice.

The 13x18 paper can probably be achieved by using a custom paper size.

> I am wondering if it is possible to print multiple images onto one page.
> This would be nice to e.g. quickly compare different processing variants of
> one image.

That is supported by the digikam printing tool, but not tested by me yet, and 
not really useful for the described scenario, unless you export your photo 
multiple times)

Kindly,
Anders

> Cheers
> Michael
> 
> Am 12. September 2018 08:53:09 MESZ schrieb Anders Lund :
> >Hello,
> >
> >I just tried the printing functionality in dt.
> >
> >First, I did not get presented with printer settings, so I had to set
> >the
> >printer defaults (using kde systemsettings and system-config-printer in
> >my
> >case).
> >
> >The paper size list in the printing section of dt is not matching the
> >list of
> >papers supported by the printer, and the very common (at least in
> >europe) size
> >13*18cm is missing.
> >
> >I wanted to apply a style, and selected one in the list - but it was
> >not
> >applied.
> >
> >My printer is an Epson 1500w, and the driver is the one provided by
> >epson (and
> >recommended by openprinting).
> >
> >Anyone knows if this part of dt is being worked on?
> >
> >Kindly,
> >Anders
> >
> >
> >___
> >_ darktable user mailing list
> >to unsubscribe send a mail to
> >darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org





darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing

[Michael Below]

Hi,
I just got an Epson printer, and found the printer module to be working fine:

I am using Turboprint, including the printer setup tool, with one of their 
paper profiles. The colours are fine. Don't know about 13*18, though.

I am wondering if it is possible to print multiple images onto one page. This 
would be nice to e.g. quickly compare different processing variants of one 
image.

Cheers
Michael

Am 12. September 2018 08:53:09 MESZ schrieb Anders Lund :
>Hello,
>
>I just tried the printing functionality in dt.
>
>First, I did not get presented with printer settings, so I had to set
>the 
>printer defaults (using kde systemsettings and system-config-printer in
>my 
>case).
>
>The paper size list in the printing section of dt is not matching the
>list of 
>papers supported by the printer, and the very common (at least in
>europe) size 
>13*18cm is missing.
>
>I wanted to apply a style, and selected one in the list - but it was
>not 
>applied.
>
>My printer is an Epson 1500w, and the driver is the one provided by
>epson (and 
>recommended by openprinting).
>
>Anyone knows if this part of dt is being worked on?
>
>Kindly,
>Anders
>
>
>
>darktable user mailing list
>to unsubscribe send a mail to
>darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[HaJo Schatz]

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Jason Verlen  wrote:

>
> Want to thank everyone for pitching in.  I think it might be a good
> project for someone capable to write a new module for Darktable called
> “Print-Epson” which would automatically link to the Epson SDK’s etc in a
> manner similar to Lightroom.
>

I'm by no means a printer-module or CUPS expert, but this approach sounds
wrong. Instead the generic printer-module should be modified to probe
printer-specific options from CUPS and then create and populate drop-downs
based on that data. CUPS provides this information, it's up to the printing
application to make use of it. See e.g. by trying "lpoptions -l" in your
terminal. Depending on what printer you have installed in CUPS, you should
see a different list of options there; including EPSON-specific. Choosing
the correct options that way might even pop-up the EPSON dialog, who
knows...

But anyway, I guess the core darktable developers have no strong interest
in this and it's easy enough to print through other applications which
implement dedicated interfaces...


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Verlen]

All

Roman thank you for the suggestion on trying png format.  I am not familiar 
with this format but from what I am reading on the web it is lossless like 
tiff.  I just tried it at 16 bit and the Epson Print Layout does in fact read 
it.  This is great!

Kovacs in answer to your question I did the tiff export at 16 bit.  You can’t 
turn off compression…I can’t remember which of the two i used (one has floating 
point the other doesn’t).  

Want to thank everyone for pitching in.  I think it might be a good project for 
someone capable to write a new module for Darktable called “Print-Epson” which 
would automatically link to the Epson SDK’s etc in a manner similar to 
Lightroom.

Jason


On Mar 16, 2017, at 3:17 AM, KOVÁCS István  wrote:

> Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
> Kofa
> 
> 
> > The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may 
> > have a bug in its tiff export.
> 



darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Frank]

Not Darktable specific, but useful info

With special thanks to David Vincent-Jones I think I have figured out how
to make printing from Darktable useful on the Mac

The secret is that you need to go into the CUPS server page by pointing
your browser to http://localhost:631

Once there, you can find your printer and under the menu that says
Administration you will find “set default options”
Within these options I found all the various quality and paper type
settings from my driver.
By setting these IN ADVANCE and then printing, results were as I would
expect.

If you try to set the options and get a message about web administration
not enabled,
the error message will give you a command that you simply need to cut and
paste into a terminal window and execute.

Hope this is helpful. I can now get acceptable prints out of DT without
exporting first

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:09 PM, David Vincent-Jones 
wrote:

> 'Set Default Options' in CUPS brings up 6 tabs of output variables that
> can be preset ... very elaborate .. this may be what you are seeing from
> your sysyem!
>
> On 03/16/2017 10:23 AM, Frank wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Pascal Obry  wrote:
>
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>> > You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
>> > it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
>> > tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
>> > system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> >  and when calling the CUPS options in DT,
>>
>> How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.
>>
>
> OK this is strange, I cannot find this, but I know for certain that I
> previously
> got access to a long list of printing variables where individual
> parameters
> could be set by changing the value. I do not remember how I accessed
> this...
> Maybe that was inside Scribus when I was trying to print my Chap Book?
>
>>
>> >  the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
>> > not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
>> > system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal,
>>
>> What is normal? :)
>>
>
> Haha, fair enough!
>
>>
>> But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
>> adjusting the CUPS options, correct?
>>
>> So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
>> select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.
>>
>
> And this is where you will lose the vast majority of Mac users.
> This is no doubt possible, but I have no idea how to go about it
> and none of this has any part in typical printing workflow on the Mac
>
>>
>> Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
>> equivalent, no?
>>
>> > Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.
>>
>> Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
>> prints.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>>   Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)
>>
>>   The best way to travel is by means of imagination
>>
>>   http://www.obry.net
>>
>>   gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B
>>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Frank]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Pascal Obry  wrote:

>
> Frank,
>
> > You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
> > it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
> > tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
> > system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT
>
> Correct.
>
> >  and when calling the CUPS options in DT,
>
> How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.
>

OK this is strange, I cannot find this, but I know for certain that I
previously
got access to a long list of printing variables where individual parameters
could be set by changing the value. I do not remember how I accessed this...
Maybe that was inside Scribus when I was trying to print my Chap Book?

>
> >  the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
> > not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
> > system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal,
>
> What is normal? :)
>

Haha, fair enough!

>
> But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
> adjusting the CUPS options, correct?
>
> So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
> select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.
>

And this is where you will lose the vast majority of Mac users.
This is no doubt possible, but I have no idea how to go about it
and none of this has any part in typical printing workflow on the Mac

>
> Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
> equivalent, no?
>
> > Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.
>
> Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
> prints.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
>   Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)
>
>   The best way to travel is by means of imagination
>
>   http://www.obry.net
>
>   gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B
>


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 16 mars 2017 09:17:47 CET KOVÁCS István wrote:
> Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
> Kofa
> 
> > The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may
> 
> have a bug in its tiff export.
> 
> 
___
_
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
TIFF is a complex format with a lot of 'dialects' and options, so problems with 
importing a TIFF 
generated by another program are rather common. Not necessarily a bug in 
darktable.

But why do you need TIFF in this case? Afaik, PNG does almost everything TIFF 
does. the 
only difference I know of is that PNG is limited to only one layer (TIFF can 
handle multilayer), 
but that shouldn't be relevant if you use the file to print. (and PNG tends to 
give smaller files).

Remco

PS: Darktable (under linux) uses libtiff.so, so that might be the place to drop 
a bug report.






darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[KOVÁCS István]

Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
Kofa


> The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may
have a bug in its tiff export.


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Verlen]

All

I am using the Epson Print Layout program to do the final printing.  
I export from DT in the highest possible resolution jpg.  
Then I leave DT and go into Epson Print Layout, and print from there.
The Epson program is free and offers control over most things including the 
Epson ABW model.
The GUI is very easy to use.
The only thing I can’t set through it is platen gap and width of the printer.
But it is possible it is widening somewhat through my choice of front feed 
which the interface does support.

I think this approach is a bit clunky as it is several steps vs. just printing 
within the LR program, but it does seem to work just fine.
It is probably a good answer for MAC users.

One note…i tried exporting tiff from DT to get the best resolution, but the 
Epson program wouldn’t read it.  
The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may have 
a bug in its tiff export.

Jason.

On Mar 13, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:

> * Jason Verlen  [03-13-17 18:31]:
>> Guys 
>> 
>> Let me explain better.  I'm on a Mac, not Linux.  When I print from 
>> Lightroom it exposes the Epson print utility screens in Lightroom.  These 
>> screens let me select the paper type (glossy, luster, matte, etc), do 
>> advanced settings (e.g. Platen gap and width for heavier papers), configure 
>> the tone color if I am printing black and white using the epson Abw rip, and 
>> much more.
>> 
>> Darktable print does not seem to access the Epson print capability.  There 
>> is no way to print properly without it.  Unless I am missing something.
>> 
>> Should Darktable integrate the Epson print utility windows just like 
>> Lightroom?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Jas
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:53 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> * Jason Verlen  [03-12-17 20:58]:
 Darktable Users:
 
 I am new to Darktable.  Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really 
 impressed.  Fantastic program.  And then I had a problem...
 
 I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
 
 I tried to Print an image for the first time.  It seems that Darktable 
 won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to 
 print black and white images.  Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
 
 If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into 
 a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have 
 to stay with LightRoom for now.  My experience with ABW is very positive - 
 black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.
>>> 
>>> iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
>>> cups, hplip,  and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
>>> printer to put your image to paper.
>>> 
>>> you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
>>> scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.
>>> 
>>> googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson.  do
>>> you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
>>> look.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
>>> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
>>> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535  
>>>   
>>> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo @ http://linuxcounter.net
>>> 
>>> darktable user mailing list
>>> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>> 
> 
> 
> darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
> sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
> handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer. 
> darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
> by your operating system and the software you have installed to
> control/access your printer.
> 
> darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
> camera, raw or jpg/tiff/...  it doesn't control your printer, it only
> sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.
> 
> using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
> 
> and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!
> 
> ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.
> 
> -- 
> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535
> 
> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo  @ http://linuxcounter.net
> 
> 

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

It's not free, but the Linux version is awesome : http://www.printfab.net/

 

Rgrds,

 

J.-Luc

 

 

 

 

> Message du 15/03/17 15:04
> De : "Frank" 
> A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode
> 
>
I am also on a Mac, and I have had no success in printing from DT. I've waded 
into the CUPS parameters, but without a table of settings and how they 
correspond to the "normal" driver settings (which I cannot find anywhere) I 
find it impossible to get results I am satisfied with. 

>
This is a significant drawback, but I have simply added a step to my workflow 
where I export a copy with all adjustments then either import this into Apple 
Photos for printing and sharing on social media, or print it directly from 
Preview or other image editing software. This uses additional storage and also 
creates a situation where the JPEG and processed RAW are out of sync.

>
I've resigned to the fact that DT is strictly for raw processing (which it does 
extremely well) and browsing/cataloging (which is does adequately).

>
This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the case 
currently.



>  
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to 
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org 
>

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Pascal Obry]

Frank,

> You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
> it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
> tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
> system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT

Correct.

>  and when calling the CUPS options in DT,

How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.

>  the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
> not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
> system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal, 

What is normal? :)

But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
adjusting the CUPS options, correct?

So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.

Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
equivalent, no?

> Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.

Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
prints.

Regards,

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Frank]

You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think it
would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive tool to
control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This system print
dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT and when calling the
CUPS options in DT, the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0
values which is not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to
the core system print resources and let the print dialog function as
normal, there would be no problem, but I guess this is also not so simple...

Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers. For consumer
printers this information is, I suppose, embedded in the driver software
and is not available to be used independently (I have examined the package
contents and not been able to find any ICC profiles). I have used an ICC
profile from another paper supplier designed for epson printers and this
did allow me to get soft proofing but did not help the printing situation
measurably.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Pascal Obry  wrote:

>
> Hello Frank,
>
> > This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the
> > case currently.
>
> Certainly working for me on GNU/Linux. Now there is something I don't
> understand. When you print from other software on Mac you're using
> CUPS, right? AFAIK CUPS is the default printing queue in Mac, in fact
> CUPS is maintained by Apple if I'm not mistaken.
>
> So, why is dt not working for Mac? The current implementation does a a
> pdf out of the image and send it as-is to CUPS as any other software
> should do, no?
>
> Most importantly I also feel (but I'm not a Mac user so I cannot be
> sure) that the .ICC for the paper that are delivered by the paper maker
> should be usable on Mac, no?
>
> Anyway, if I'm wrong what dt should do to fix this issue?
>
> Regards,
>
> --
>   Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)
>
>   The best way to travel is by means of imagination
>
>   http://www.obry.net
>
>   gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B
>


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Frank]

I am also on a Mac, and I have had no success in printing from DT. I've
waded into the CUPS parameters, but without a table of settings and how
they correspond to the "normal" driver settings (which I cannot find
anywhere) I find it impossible to get results I am satisfied with.

This is a significant drawback, but I have simply added a step to my
workflow where I export a copy with all adjustments then either import this
into Apple Photos for printing and sharing on social media, or print it
directly from Preview or other image editing software. This uses additional
storage and also creates a situation where the JPEG and processed RAW are
out of sync.

I've resigned to the fact that DT is strictly for raw processing (which it
does extremely well) and browsing/cataloging (which is does adequately).

This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the case
currently.


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

Hello,

 

I think we all have gotten bad habits because of too much facilities offered by 
some system that is "get all you want with no effort"-oriented.

When going to Linux, I found my Canon 4850 which printed fairly fine on Windows 
produced awful printouts on Linux *with the same software* - this is important 
-.

It was a photo development software, just like DT, but it was totally unable to 
print correctly whatever it sent to my printer, though I had no problems with 
other software as LibreOffice, for instance.

A few googleing later, I learnt that each piece of software is built to deal 
with its capabilities : a print driver to drive a printer, a word processor to 
type text, aso. and a raw converter to deal with photos. Thus, each one makes 
its job at its best (is that really english ?).

And each developper can focus on its goal and doesn't waste resources trying to 
reinvent the wheel.

I solved my problem buying a cheap piece of software that perfectly can drive 
my printer (among many others). It does its job, rather well and efficiently. 
Its name : turboprint.

Maybe is there such a thing for your Mac ? At the time I heard about Mac's for 
the first time (1985), they used to be very good. And very, very, very 
expensive, too.

The second has slightly changed, would the first have, too ?

 

Regards,

 

J.-Luc

 

 

 

 

> Message du 14/03/17 19:07
> De : "Jason Verlen" 
> A : "Robert Krawitz" 
> Copie à : "HaJo Schatz" , darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode
> 
> Everyone
> 
> Thanks for all the additional info. 
> 
> It is clear that everyone’s input shows they are at a higher level with 
> understanding the mechanics of what is underneath printing than I am. Most 
> probably you are Linux users and are therefore more capable of working this 
> out on your own.
> 
> I think this an opportunity for Darktable. Adobe’s pricing policy for 
> Lightroom users basically doubles or even triples the price from what they 
> are used to paying - for a program that is basically not being developed very 
> much. This will generate more interest in Darktable from Mac users. They will 
> most likely run into exactly the same challenge on printing that i have run 
> into. I believe both the Epson and Canon print windows are SDKs that 
> Lightroom integrates with…nobody is suggesting Darktable becomes a print 
> program…what I am suggesting is maybe Darktable should investigate the same 
> integration for Mac users.
> 
> In the meantime I think my approach of exporting from Darktable and printing 
> with Epson Print Layout program will do the trick, albeit in a clunky 
> multistep way. The Epson Layout program has access to most of the needed 
> settings (even for the ABW rip for black and white) and it quite easy to use 
> and allows you to save Presets making it very efficient. 
> 
> All in all I approached Darktable thinking it would be “good for the money”. 
> What I have concluded is that it is quite simply a better program than 
> Lightroom. It is amazing actually. But the printing issue will stifle many 
> potential users.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jason.
> 
> On Mar 14, 2017, at 9:04 AM, Robert Krawitz  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:33:05 +0800, HaJo Schatz wrote:
> >> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan 
wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
> >>> sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
> >>> handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
> >>> darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
> >>> by your operating system and the software you have installed to
> >>> control/access your printer.
> >> 
> >> But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
> >> me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
> >> Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?
> > 
> > It could use IPP or it could use PPD files. Either way, it may be
> > choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about. This could be
> > problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
> > features that aren't represented in profiles.
> > 
> >> I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
> >> printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
> >> 
> >> using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.
> > 
> > Very.
> > 
> >> I'

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Verlen]

Everyone

Thanks for all the additional info.  

It is clear that everyone’s input shows they are at a higher level with 
understanding the mechanics of what is underneath printing than I am.  Most 
probably you are Linux users and are therefore more capable of working this out 
on your own.

I think this an opportunity for Darktable.  Adobe’s pricing policy for 
Lightroom users basically doubles or even triples the price from what they are 
used to paying - for a program that is basically not being developed very much. 
 This will generate more interest in Darktable from Mac users.  They will most 
likely run into exactly the same challenge on printing that i have run into.  I 
believe both the Epson and Canon print windows are SDKs that Lightroom 
integrates with…nobody is suggesting Darktable becomes a print program…what I 
am suggesting is maybe Darktable should investigate the same integration for 
Mac users.

In the meantime I think my approach of exporting from Darktable and printing 
with Epson Print Layout program will do the trick, albeit in a clunky multistep 
way.  The Epson Layout program has access to most of the needed settings (even 
for the ABW rip for black and white) and it quite easy to use and allows you to 
save Presets making it very efficient.  

All in all I approached Darktable thinking it would be “good for the money”.  
What I have concluded is that it is quite simply a better program than 
Lightroom.  It is amazing actually.  But the printing issue will stifle many 
potential users.

Thanks

Jason.

On Mar 14, 2017, at 9:04 AM, Robert Krawitz  wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:33:05 +0800, HaJo Schatz wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
>>> sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
>>> handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
>>> darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
>>> by your operating system and the software you have installed to
>>> control/access your printer.
>> 
>> But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
>> me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
>> Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?
> 
> It could use IPP or it could use PPD files.  Either way, it may be
> choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about.  This could be
> problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
> features that aren't represented in profiles.
> 
>> I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
>> printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
>> 
>> using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
>>> 
>> 
>> By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.
> 
> Very.
> 
>> I'd probably rather export as TIFF from darktable and print with e.g. GIMP.
>> That's what I do anyhow, albeit not to an EPSON printer.
> 
> -- 
> Robert Krawitz 
> 
> ***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
> Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
> Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net
> 
> "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
> --Eric Crampton
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Robert Krawitz]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:33:05 +0800, HaJo Schatz wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>>
>> darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
>> sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
>> handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
>> darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
>> by your operating system and the software you have installed to
>> control/access your printer.
>
> But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
> me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
> Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?

It could use IPP or it could use PPD files.  Either way, it may be
choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about.  This could be
problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
features that aren't represented in profiles.

> I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
> printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
>
> using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
>>
>
> By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.

Very.

> I'd probably rather export as TIFF from darktable and print with e.g. GIMP.
> That's what I do anyhow, albeit not to an EPSON printer.

-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Robert Krawitz]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:21:02 +0100, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 14. M=E4rz 2017, 15:38:52 CET schrieb Jason Polak:
>> I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is
>> not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.
>> 
>> All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work.
>> Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's
>> the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it
>> possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this
>> process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?
>
> I never printed from dt as I don't even have a printer. But what I know is 
> that the system was designed to NOT offer all those capabilities on purpose. 
> The reason being that a printer profile is only valid for one specific set of 
> settings. Encouraging the use of printer profiles while suggesting that 
> fiddling 
> with controls at the same time was sane is misleading the user. Thus: No 
> settings. If CUPS is somehow able to pop up the driver window on its own then 
> that might be used, but dt isn't doing that for you.

Not everyone has fully profiled workflows.  If your full workflow
isn't profiled, you may need adjustments to correct for your monitor;
if your printer/driver/paper combo isn't profiled (Gutenprint, for
example, is a volunteer project, and we don't have the resources to
profile printer/driver/paper combinations), you may need significant
adjustments to get useful output.

>> Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can
>> help the OP, without the attitude.

-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Dienstag, 14. März 2017, 15:38:52 CET schrieb Jason Polak:
> I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is
> not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.
> 
> All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work.
> Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's
> the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it
> possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this
> process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?

I never printed from dt as I don't even have a printer. But what I know is 
that the system was designed to NOT offer all those capabilities on purpose. 
The reason being that a printer profile is only valid for one specific set of 
settings. Encouraging the use of printer profiles while suggesting that 
fiddling 
with controls at the same time was sane is misleading the user. Thus: No 
settings. If CUPS is somehow able to pop up the driver window on its own then 
that might be used, but dt isn't doing that for you.

> Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can
> help the OP, without the attitude.
> 
> Jason

HTH,
Tobias

[...]

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Polak]

I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is 
not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.


All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work. 
Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's 
the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it 
possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this 
process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?


Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can 
help the OP, without the attitude.


Jason

On 2017-03-14 10:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:


darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
camera, raw or jpg/tiff/...  it doesn't control your printer, it only
sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.

using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.

and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!

ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.



darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Jason Verlen  [03-13-17 18:31]:
> Guys 
> 
> Let me explain better.  I'm on a Mac, not Linux.  When I print from Lightroom 
> it exposes the Epson print utility screens in Lightroom.  These screens let 
> me select the paper type (glossy, luster, matte, etc), do advanced settings 
> (e.g. Platen gap and width for heavier papers), configure the tone color if I 
> am printing black and white using the epson Abw rip, and much more.
> 
> Darktable print does not seem to access the Epson print capability.  There is 
> no way to print properly without it.  Unless I am missing something.
> 
> Should Darktable integrate the Epson print utility windows just like 
> Lightroom?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jas
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:53 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
> > 
> > * Jason Verlen  [03-12-17 20:58]:
> >> Darktable Users:
> >> 
> >> I am new to Darktable.  Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really 
> >> impressed.  Fantastic program.  And then I had a problem...
> >> 
> >> I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
> >> 
> >> I tried to Print an image for the first time.  It seems that Darktable 
> >> won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to 
> >> print black and white images.  Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
> >> 
> >> If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into 
> >> a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have 
> >> to stay with LightRoom for now.  My experience with ABW is very positive - 
> >> black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.
> > 
> > iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
> > cups, hplip,  and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
> > printer to put your image to paper.
> > 
> > you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
> > scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.
> > 
> > googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson.  do
> > you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
> > look.
> > 
> > -- 
> > (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> > http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
> > Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535  
> >   
> > Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo @ http://linuxcounter.net
> > 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > 


darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer. 
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
camera, raw or jpg/tiff/...  it doesn't control your printer, it only
sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.

using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.

and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!

ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535  
  
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo@ http://linuxcounter.net

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Pascal Obry]

Le dimanche 12 mars 2017 à 22:53 -0400, Patrick Shanahan a écrit :
> iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer
> handler, cups, hplip,  and *you* tell the print handler how you
> want the printer to put your image to paper.

Yes, exactly. Except that it only support cups. So you just have to
create a cups queue with the proper parameters.

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org