Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Michael]

Thank you to the user who post the archive address!

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Jean-Luc CECCOLI <
jean-luc.cecc...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> > Message du 01/03/17 02:39
> > De : darkta...@911networks.com
> > A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> > Copie à :
> > Objet : Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings
> >
> > On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 00:24:59 +0100 (CET)
> > Jean-Luc CECCOLI <jean-luc.cecc...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >
> > >> 2- sharpen (improves slightly)
> > >> 3- basecurve (that blurs details)
> > >Both these are pure nuisance for me. I consider them only polluting
> > >the stack. I'd like not to see them into the developement stack, but
> > >the only way to achieve this is to apply them turned off, then
> > >compress the stack, and finally select the stack entry just under
> > >them and compress once more or set anything else. I don't use them
> > >at all. I don't want to have to use them against my will. Instead of
> > >basecureve, I use a method a member published almost one year ago,
> > >the thread was "A better starting point". It works very well for me,
> > >gives far better results than the basecurve in every situation. So,
> > >yes, if I could have both the basecurve and sharpen eliminated from
> > >the development stack, I'd be very, very, very happy.
> >
> > The thread was "A better starting-point for Nikon RAW-files"
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/darktable-user@lists.
> darktable.org/msg00805.html
> >
> > The problem for this is:
> >
> > 1. This is for Nikon. I have both Canon and Fujifilm x-trans
> > 2. I use Linux
> >
> > So I can't use Nikon ViewNX2 to generate the various profiles.
>
> Indeed. But what really matters here is that whatever the method you use,
> the basecurve conflicts with it.
>
> So you have to deactivate it anyway.
> >
> > On the other hand, I often use the Pentax profile that often gives me
> > a better contrast management.
>
> Just as I wrote before : you have to deactivate the default basecurve, and
> this only can be done by adding an instance set to off.
>
> Then, if you want a clean stack, you have to compress the history, click
> on to the entry just before the newly added instance and compress again.
>
>
>
> Rgrds,
>
>
>
> J.-Luc
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>



-- 
:-)~MIKE~(-:


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

> Message du 01/03/17 02:39
> De : darkta...@911networks.com
> A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings
> 
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 00:24:59 +0100 (CET)
> Jean-Luc CECCOLI  wrote:
> 
> >> 2- sharpen (improves slightly)
> >> 3- basecurve (that blurs details) 
> >Both these are pure nuisance for me. I consider them only polluting
> >the stack. I'd like not to see them into the developement stack, but
> >the only way to achieve this is to apply them turned off, then
> >compress the stack, and finally select the stack entry just under
> >them and compress once more or set anything else. I don't use them
> >at all. I don't want to have to use them against my will. Instead of
> >basecureve, I use a method a member published almost one year ago,
> >the thread was "A better starting point". It works very well for me,
> >gives far better results than the basecurve in every situation. So,
> >yes, if I could have both the basecurve and sharpen eliminated from
> >the development stack, I'd be very, very, very happy. 
> 
> The thread was "A better starting-point for Nikon RAW-files"
> https://www.mail-archive.com/darktable-user@lists.darktable.org/msg00805.html
> 
> The problem for this is:
> 
> 1. This is for Nikon. I have both Canon and Fujifilm x-trans
> 2. I use Linux
> 
> So I can't use Nikon ViewNX2 to generate the various profiles.



Indeed. But what really matters here is that whatever the method you use, the 
basecurve conflicts with it.

So you have to deactivate it anyway.
> 
> On the other hand, I often use the Pentax profile that often gives me
> a better contrast management.



Just as I wrote before : you have to deactivate the default basecurve, and this 
only can be done by adding an instance set to off.

Then, if you want a clean stack, you have to compress the history, click on to 
the entry just before the newly added instance and compress again.

 

Rgrds,

 

J.-Luc


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[darktable]

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 00:24:59 +0100 (CET)
Jean-Luc CECCOLI  wrote:

>> 2- sharpen (improves slightly)
>> 3- basecurve (that blurs details)  
>Both these are pure nuisance for me. I consider them only polluting
>the stack. I'd like not to see them into the developement stack, but
>the only way to achieve this is to apply them turned off, then
>compress the stack, and finally select the stack entry just under
>them and compress once more or set anything else. I don't use them
>at all. I don't want to have to use them against my will. Instead of
>basecureve, I use a method a member published almost one year ago,
>the thread was "A better starting point". It works very well for me,
>gives far better results than the basecurve in every situation. So,
>yes, if I could have both the basecurve and sharpen eliminated from
>the development stack, I'd be very, very, very happy. 

The thread was "A better starting-point for Nikon RAW-files"
https://www.mail-archive.com/darktable-user@lists.darktable.org/msg00805.html

The problem for this is:

1. This is for Nikon. I have both Canon and Fujifilm x-trans
2. I use Linux

So I can't use Nikon ViewNX2 to generate the various profiles.

On the other hand, I often use the Pentax profile that often gives me
a  better contrast management.

Merci

-- 
sknahT

vyS

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

Hello,

 

> Message du 27/02/17 00:00
> De : "Michael" 
> A : "darktable forum" 
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings
> 
>
> what I mean is when I open a new image up in dt five modules are activated 
> automatically:
> 0- original image
> 1- orientation (which doesn't appear to do anything)
It makes the images always be well oriented. Mandatory for me, as I very often 
take photos in portrait orientation and don't wnat to have to bother with this 
at edit.
 
> 2- sharpen (improves slightly)
> 3- basecurve (that blurs details)
Both these are pure nuisance for me. I consider them only polluting the stack. 
I'd like not to see them into the developement stack, but the only way to 
achieve this is to apply them turned off, then compress the stack, and finally 
select the stack entry just under them and compress once more or set anything 
else.
I don't use them at all. I don't want to have to use them against my will.
Instead of basecureve, I use a method a member published almost one year ago, 
the thread was "A better starting point".
It works very well for me, gives far better results than the basecurve in every 
situation.
So, yes, if I could have both the basecurve and sharpen eliminated from the 
development stack, I'd be very, very, very happy.
 
> 4- color balance (blurs even more)
> 5- white balance (changes the colors of things)
None of those are automatically applied. You must have set them to be so into 
the settings.

>
> I want to eliminate modules 3, 4, and 5 and to understand what module 1 is 
> doing.
 
As I wrote before, it tilts up photos taken in portrait mode.
You _don't_ want this to be off, unless you only use landscape mode.
 
Rgrds,
 
J.-Luc


>
On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 5:34 AM, Roman Lebedev  wrote:
>
On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:08 AM, Michael  wrote:
> > I don't want dt to automatically apply some modules and I want to change
> > other modules settings. How do I do it?
> You are aware that dt uses a fixed pipeline, not like in gimp?
> 
> So if you edit basecurve, edit something else, and then again edit basecurve,
> even though history stack will contain two basecurve entries,
> the image will not have two basecurves applied?
> 
> > --
> > :-)~MIKE~(-:
> Roman.
> 
> > 
> > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 


> 

>
-- 
>




:-)~MIKE~(-:
>






>  
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to 
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org 
>

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Chris Siebenmann]

 This is the expected effect of basecurve with an image that is close
to saturation. All or almost all base curves increase image contrast
and thus lift the highlights; if the unaltered highlights are close to
clipping, the base curve will push them over into it.

 My approach to dealing with this (in older darktable versions) varies
from case to case. Sometimes the highlights & shadows module will bring
things back, sometimes selectively or generally reducing exposure will,
and sometimes I need to turn off or alter the base curve module and then
recover (some of) the contrast it normally adds with other mechanisms.

 I believe that the current version of darktable also adds an exposure
fusion mode that may help to recover highlights here.

(There are situations where white balance can also push highlights into
clipping in some colour channels, but these are harder to deal with
since an image with white balance color channel multipliers of 1.0 / 1.0
/ 1.0 is extremely off.)

 By the way, all bets are off for areas that are clipped in the RAW in
one or more colour channels. Those have irretrievably lost some detail
(or all detail if all channels have clipped) and any detail or colour
has to be reconstructed using heuristics.

- cks

> Well blurs as in adds color which... Heck... I'll show you:
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2xvsVTZy4y1ODR6dTk5UldpR3c?usp=sharing
> 
> I figured it out how I should have stated it. The picture (which is blown
> out a little to start) is blown out and then blown out even more.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:15 AM, Tobias Ellinghaus  wrote:
> 
> > Am Sonntag, 26. Februar 2017, 18:00:18 CET schrieb Michael:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > 3- basecurve (that blurs details)
> >
> > As others pointed out, basecurve can't blur anything.
> >
> > > 4- color balance (blurs even more)
> >
> > Neither can color balance blur things. However, it's not a module that gets
> > applied by default. Please check the presets tab in the preferences and
> > see if
> > you yourself added an auto-apply preset for it. You can delete it if that's
> > the case to get rid of it.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Tobias

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Sonntag, 26. Februar 2017, 18:00:18 CET schrieb Michael:

[...]

> 3- basecurve (that blurs details)

As others pointed out, basecurve can't blur anything.

> 4- color balance (blurs even more)

Neither can color balance blur things. However, it's not a module that gets 
applied by default. Please check the presets tab in the preferences and see if 
you yourself added an auto-apply preset for it. You can delete it if that's 
the case to get rid of it.

[...]

Tobias

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 27 février 2017 00:00:18 CET Michael wrote:
> what I mean is when I open a new image up in dt five modules are activated
> automatically:
> 0- original image
> 1- orientation (which doesn't appear to do anything)
This uses metadata to decide if the image needs to be rotated (over +/- 90°), 
needed for 
portrait oriented images.
> 2- sharpen (improves slightly)
You usually want this, the way most cameras are constructed, and the 
demosaicing, lead to 
some blur, which this module counteracts (but cannot correct).
> 3- basecurve (that blurs details)
This module works per pixel, so doesn't influence neighbouring pixels (i.e. 
isn't be able to blur 
details). Inactivating this module should get you a very dark image lacking 
contrast.
> 4- color balance (blurs even more)
Strange, I never see that one automatically applied, but it also shouldn't blur 
the image (works 
on individual pixels only)
> 5- white balance (changes the colors of things)
That's its function: it corrects for the difference in the colour of the actual 
light and theoretical 
white light. You'll want it, without it you should get a very green image
> I want to eliminate modules 3, 4, and 5 and to understand what module 1 is
> doing.

Unless you have a small sensor in your camera (like 2-4 Mpixel), the image on 
your screen is 
reduced in size. DT needs some time to apply the pipeline when you open an 
image, or edit 
something. This can give you temporarily a less sharp image. How long that 
lasts, depends on 
your computer. 

And except for the sharpen module, none of the modules you list can lead to 
blurring of the 
image, as they all work on individual pixels, and not on groups of pixels.

But, if you insist, they can all be turned off (except 0), by clicking on the 
power button at the left 
of the module name (in the right sidebar in the darkroom). I'm pretty sure you 
won't like the 
result, though.

Are you by any chance new to darktable and raw development? In that case, 
reading the 
Darktable manual (which explains what the modules do and why they are in a 
certain order) 
might be a good start. Also, a site like http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/ (and 
several others) 
has good articles on most aspects of (digital) photography, including editing 
and post-
processing.




darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Chris Siebenmann]

> what I mean is when I open a new image up in dt five modules are activated
> automatically:
> 0- original image
> 1- orientation (which doesn't appear to do anything)

 I believe that the orientation module arranges things so that
vertical pictures are presented as vertical (and with the right end
up). If you find a vertical picture of yours and explicitly turn the
module off, I believe the picture will flip to be horizontal (and thus
sideways).

 Similarly, if you took a picture with the camera upside down, I believe
this is recorded in the EXIF information and the orientation module will
present it rotated 180 degrees.

- cks

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Michael]

I forgot to mention that the original image is great. I mentioned that
orientation appears to do nothing. And the sharpen module does improve it
slightly (you need to be zoomed in to notice it).

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Michael  wrote:

> what I mean is when I open a new image up in dt five modules are activated
> automatically:
> 0- original image
> 1- orientation (which doesn't appear to do anything)
> 2- sharpen (improves slightly)
> 3- basecurve (that blurs details)
> 4- color balance (blurs even more)
> 5- white balance (changes the colors of things)
>
> I want to eliminate modules 3, 4, and 5 and to understand what module 1 is
> doing.
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 5:34 AM, Roman Lebedev 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:08 AM, Michael  wrote:
>> > I don't want dt to automatically apply some modules and I want to change
>> > other modules settings. How do I do it?
>> You are aware that dt uses a fixed pipeline, not like in gimp?
>>
>> So if you edit basecurve, edit something else, and then again edit
>> basecurve,
>> even though history stack will contain two basecurve entries,
>> the image will not have two basecurves applied?
>>
>> > --
>> > :-)~MIKE~(-:
>> Roman.
>>
>> > 
>> 
>> > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>



-- 
:-)~MIKE~(-:


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] automatically applies some settings

[Roman Lebedev]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:08 AM, Michael  wrote:
> I don't want dt to automatically apply some modules and I want to change
> other modules settings. How do I do it?
You are aware that dt uses a fixed pipeline, not like in gimp?

So if you edit basecurve, edit something else, and then again edit basecurve,
even though history stack will contain two basecurve entries,
the image will not have two basecurves applied?

> --
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
Roman.

> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org