Re: Improved choice selection in speech-enabled Debian installer

[Devin Prater]

I tried it in a VM, and it works very well. Thanks so much for all your
work!
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 4:48 PM Samuel Thibault 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have improved the choice selection in the speech-enabled Debian
> installer, please give it a try:
>
> https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/mini.iso
>
> The idea is that one can now not only type the number followed by enter,
> but also select the answer with the arrow keys and press enter to
> validate.
>
> Samuel
>
>

Re: On Braille and Linux

[Devin Prater]

Oh no, I wasn't meaning to put more work on Joanie. I meant Rich could work
on that, since he'd have to get used to working on other technologies
besides, and he'd have to patch that into Orca anyway so why not get used
to the internals now. Also this could help bring trackpad navigation to
Orca as well.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 12:08 PM Samuel Thibault 
wrote:

> Devin Prater, le dim. 03 avril 2022 12:02:59 -0500, a ecrit:
> > I'd work on getting Orca working on it first before working on a text
> > input method,
>
> Well "Orca" is mostly about Joanie alone, so I'd say avoid putting yet
> more load on her and work on a text input method.
>
> Samuel
>
>

Re: On Braille and Linux

[Devin Prater]

Smart phones use touchscreen braille input to make typing faster.
Devin Prater. This attempts to bring this to Linux smart phones and such
like that. I'd work on getting Orca working on it first before working on a
text input method, but that's just me lol.
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:17 AM Samuel Thibault 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Rich Morin, le mer. 30 mars 2022 21:29:48 -0700, a ecrit:
> > AFAIK, there isn't any braille screen input support for Linux,
>
> AIUI, you mean using a touch screen or touch pad to type Braille? I'm
> not aware of anything like that.
>
> > One major issue is that I'm not at all clear on how to deal with the
> output.  What back-end programs should I target and what interface(s) do
> they generally want to deal with from input devices?  For example, is there
> an easy way in Linux for a user mode process to emulate a keyboard device?
>
> There are various ways to do that. If your output is really keypresses
> you can emulate a keyboard thanks to Linux' uinput. If your output is
> rather text, you can use atspi's atspi_generate_keyboard_event. You can
> also rather implement an ibus module.
>
> > More generally, I'd like to get some feedback on a11y, system and user
> interfaces, etc.  For example:
> >
> > - What back-end programs should I target?
> > - What kinds of gestures would folks want?
> > - What sorts of interfaces should I present?
> >
> > Advice, caveats, clues, and pointers would all be welcome...
>
> I'd say start with determining what the user needs are precisely, before
> looking at the technical details.
>
> Samuel
>
>

Re: To all candidates: Debian and people with disabilities

[Devin Prater]

Gas is rather expensive these days. :D How would you propose we improve the
emotional response? I've written plenty of blog posts on
write.as/devinprater (some on other operating systems but a good bit about
Linux). I'm not very good at making videos, but I can write and edit.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 1:24 AM Hideki Yamane  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 23:37:03 +0100
> Jean-Philippe MENGUAL  wrote:
> > I dont think DPL can influence this, indeed.
>
>  DPL can influence it, IMHO. But, of course cannot force it.
>  Just point "the direction" and show the idea behind it and discuss -
>  that's what I want to do.
>
>
> > Difficult question indeed. Most information are on
> > wiki.debian.org/accessibility.
>
>  "Pulling" the information is a bit hard these days since there are
>  a lot of info and not well constructed. And there is no "feelings"
>  with current situations. Improving accessibility is a good thing,
>  but push people to do so, we need some emotional "gas" to heat our
>  heart. So, it is important that "pushing" information about current
>  situation of accessibility in Debian and what you want to do with
>  it is necessary, IMO.
>
>
> --
> Hideki Yamane 
>

Re: To all candidates: Debian and people with disabilities

[Devin Prater]

Yeah, right now there is a device being tested, the NLS EReader. This is a
braille display that the National Library Service for the Blind in the US
is having companies develop so that they can then distribute them, for
free, to their patrons. Two versions are being tested, one from the
Humanware manufacturer, and another from Zoomax. The one from Zoomax works
currently, in at least BRLTTY 6.4, and work is being done to complete
support for the Humanware model. So I'm glad device support can be added in
stable like that. I only have access to the Humanware model, and some
devices, like Android phones, don't support it, while others, like iOS
systems, have... unfinished support for it.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:34 AM Samuel Thibault 
wrote:

> Jean-Philippe MENGUAL, le mar. 22 mars 2022 11:51:43 +0100, a ecrit:
> > If it adds a driver for your device, indeed, a backport is a good
> > idea.
>
> Note that sometimes supporting a new device does not actually require
> a completely new driver, only a small addition to recognize the USB
> device. That can be added in stable updates without problem.
>
> Samuel
>
>

Re: To all candidates: Debian and people with disabilities

[Devin Prater]

So, the Terminal issue was fixed some time ago, so we don't have to worry
about that. That was just an example of a bug which *has* happened before.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 5:52 AM Jean-Philippe MENGUAL 
wrote:

>
> Le 22/03/2022 à 04:10, Devin Prater a écrit :
> > Thanks. I tried to think of good, useful questions to spark discussion,
> > but I don't know much about the structure of Debian or its project
> > leaders. I do think, though, that if the project leader keeps
> > accessibility in mind, this will filter down throughout Debian as a
> whole.
>
> You are right, and thanks to give visibility fot this matter here.
>
> >
> > As far as backports, my problem is enabling it. Normal desktop users
> > probably won't even know what that is, and the syntax is rather ugly, to
> > me at least. I'd personally like to see accessibility on the same level
> > as security or very important bug fix updates, because sometimes they
> > are, especially when something like the Terminal bug happened with Orca,
> > where Orca couldn't read the Mate Terminal. Another thing is braille
> > support. BRLTTY, the package for driving Braille displays, gets updated
> > like once every three months or so with support for new Braille displays.
>
> What you describe are issues mainly related to upstream development. The
> fact Orca has problems in a terminal (I think I know this) should be
> reported and discussedon the orcamailing list, as it is the place where
> the development happens. Debian is only a distribution, ie. a place to
> make easier getting packages usable. But a distro should not patch so
> much a program, in particular it cannot bring new features or fix bugs.
> Some maintainers do, but often because they maintain the package and the
> program upstream. It is not the case for graphical accessibility tools,
> where maintainers in Debian (thanks Samuel, Paul and few others) are
> often different from the upstream developers. Tools such as
> speech-dispatcher are maintained by accessibility team upstream and in
> Debian, for instance.
>
> So the best thing you can do to report such problems is writing to the
> orca mailing list so that they are in the todo list of the developer.
> And indeed, Orca in a terminal is not optimum.
>
> For braille, the thing is to know if a new version of brltty supports a
> display you have and which is not yet supported in stable. Ti is a kind
> of program where upgrades are not required as few new features appear,
> except sometimes (cut and paste recently introduced in graphical
> interface). So if it adds a driver for your device, indeed, a backport
> is a good idea.
>
>
> >
> > This isn't to say that Debian's accessibility is awful; it's one of the
> > best among all Linux distributions, because the user is guided from
> > installation to first system boot. It's nice. I know the project leader
> > can't be everything to all people, and there are legal, security, and
> > other community issues, but it would be nice if whoever is elected to
> > remember us, and setting aside a day to work on accessibility issues
> > would be an amazing start. And since Debian is the root of a lot of
> > other distributions, and even the default container in Google's Crostini
> > Linux thing, we can show both other FOSS projects, and big
> > corporations (corpses) that FOSS doesn't have to only be for people who
> > are privileged enough to have all senses and use of their bodies and
> minds.
>
> +1
>
> > Devin Prater
> > r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com <mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 5:46 PM Samuel Thibault  > <mailto:sthiba...@debian.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Devin, thanks for bringing accessibility questions in :)
> >
> > Jean-Philippe MENGUAL, le lun. 21 mars 2022 23:37:03 +0100, a ecrit:
> >  > Again, not sur the DPL can have a crucial role about this,
> >  > unfortunately.
> >
> > I agree, a DPL cannot make current maintainers magically find time to
> > work on issues :)
> >
> >  > Perhaps, however, in order to give more visibility to the topic,
> he
> >  > may ping them more frequently during his public statements
> (Debconf,
> >  > bits, debian-news) so make them talk about their work progress.
> >
> > Agreed as well: advertising the will of Debian to progress on this
> > front, and that help is welcome, *can* make new maintainers come up.
> >
> > Samuel
> >
>
>

Re: To all candidates: Debian and people with disabilities

[Devin Prater]

Thanks. I tried to think of good, useful questions to spark discussion, but
I don't know much about the structure of Debian or its project leaders. I
do think, though, that if the project leader keeps accessibility in mind,
this will filter down throughout Debian as a whole.

As far as backports, my problem is enabling it. Normal desktop users
probably won't even know what that is, and the syntax is rather ugly, to me
at least. I'd personally like to see accessibility on the same level as
security or very important bug fix updates, because sometimes they are,
especially when something like the Terminal bug happened with Orca, where
Orca couldn't read the Mate Terminal. Another thing is braille support.
BRLTTY, the package for driving Braille displays, gets updated like once
every three months or so with support for new Braille displays.

This isn't to say that Debian's accessibility is awful; it's one of the
best among all Linux distributions, because the user is guided from
installation to first system boot. It's nice. I know the project leader
can't be everything to all people, and there are legal, security, and other
community issues, but it would be nice if whoever is elected to remember
us, and setting aside a day to work on accessibility issues would be an
amazing start. And since Debian is the root of a lot of other
distributions, and even the default container in Google's Crostini Linux
thing, we can show both other FOSS projects, and big corporations (corpses)
that FOSS doesn't have to only be for people who are privileged enough to
have all senses and use of their bodies and minds.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 5:46 PM Samuel Thibault 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Devin, thanks for bringing accessibility questions in :)
>
> Jean-Philippe MENGUAL, le lun. 21 mars 2022 23:37:03 +0100, a ecrit:
> > Again, not sur the DPL can have a crucial role about this,
> > unfortunately.
>
> I agree, a DPL cannot make current maintainers magically find time to
> work on issues :)
>
> > Perhaps, however, in order to give more visibility to the topic, he
> > may ping them more frequently during his public statements (Debconf,
> > bits, debian-news) so make them talk about their work progress.
>
> Agreed as well: advertising the will of Debian to progress on this
> front, and that help is welcome, *can* make new maintainers come up.
>
> Samuel
>
>

Re: web-based, distributed, accessible applications (was LibreFaso)

[Devin Prater]

For me, Python is pretty easy since Emacspeak reads indentation. Reading
manpages is also easy because in Emacs one can move from heading to heading.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 2:38 AM Rich Morin  wrote:

> > On Mar 7, 2022, at 00:16, Jeffery Mewtamer  wrote:
> >
> > ... if I knew how to make my console screen reader speak
> > whitespace when reading character-by-character (and thus could tell
> > tabs and spaces apart) or how to toggle between a less verbose "prose"
> > reading style and a more verbose "code" reading style where reading
> > line-by-line speaks characters that are normally unspoken, it would
> > probably alleviate some of my dislike of whitespace sensitivity.
>
> It seems like there should be a FAQ or wiki page that gives this sort
> of info for all of the common console screen readers.  I realize that
> the manual for each one probably documents this sort of thing, but my
> impression (from you and other blind programmers) is that finding the
> information isn't as easy as it should be.
>
> - Rich Morin
>
>

Re: Fwd: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader

[Devin Prater]

I mean, I use Emacs and such, but I'm trying to get into the CLI more too.
That and Python. I just wish Debian already had Python 3.10, but I was able
to compile it from source. I'm doing this on a Chromebook through Crostini,
so I have to use Stable, since the bridge between Crostini and ChromeOS,
for sound and such, doesn't work work unstable or testing. Although, I do
have Orca's Backport.  I'm learning more about compiling packages, and I
can run Emacs with Emacspeak just fine.

Screen is a really good tool if you want to work in a single console and
such. I didn't know about screenrc, but I'll look into that. I'm coming to
love the man command. Before, I'd just used Info, but now I know the value
of man.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 8:44 AM D.J.J. Ring, Jr.  wrote:

> Adding the word "exclusive" makes it clear to me, just as this reply was
> with that word added.
>
> Booting into the CLI reminds the user of the simple but tremendous power
> of their computer that lies underneath the beautiful graphical interface,
> poised to instantly respond to the keystrokes of their fingers.
>
> Humbling really.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 05:53 Didier Spaier  wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> I meant that nobody should have an exclusive choice, i.e. anyone should be
>> allowed to use both a console and a graphical environment (possibly at
>> the same
>> time), not being limited to the mode of operation the used first after
>> booting.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Didier
>>
>> On 31/12/2021 02:16, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
>> > Didier,
>> >
>> > I didn't understand this:
>> >
>> > "I agree that nobody should have to choose between a text interface
>> and a
>> > graphical one (and between Braille and speech). As an aside mpv is
>> perfectly
>> > able to display videos in a console, but I digress."
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm guessing you might be saying nobody should be forced to either have
>> to use a
>> > test or graphical interface, because that's exactly what you have done
>> in your
>> > work on Slint. Users can specify which Desktop - MATE and KDE are
>> standard as is
>> > just a text log on.
>> >
>> > Which is perfect for those of us who either prefer text console or have
>> such low
>> > powered computers that working in Graphic User Interface is only used
>> when
>> > necessary because screen drawing just takes so long.
>> >
>> > If so your quote could be:
>> >
>> > I agree that everybody should have a choice between a text interface
>> and a
>> > graphical one (and between Braille and speech). As an aside mpv is
>> perfectly
>> > able to displays videos in a console, but I digress.
>> >
>> > I personally know many who value Slint's ability to boot directly into
>> console
>> > without Xserver running as a big plus to that distro.
>> >
>> > I modify Debian by using systemctl by disabling lightdm.
>> >
>> > As root:
>> >
>> > systemctl stop lightdm
>> > systemctl disable lightdm
>> >
>> > This will cause Debian to boot into the console, and from there, I can
>> just use
>> > "startx" to go into graphical mode.
>> >
>> > Works well, and on my old computer, it's much faster.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > David
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>

Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader

[Devin Prater]

Dude, anyone that uses Slackware and enjoys it, enjoys it for what it is.
It's not your job to tell people what to use and what not to use. Some of
these people have been using computers, most likely, much longer than you
have, so can deal with compiling software, managing different package
managers, building compile scripts for their package managers, and
generally dealing with a system as... scenic as Slackware. You are not
anyone's parents on this list. It is a list for Linux users who enjoy using
advanced software. These people, in conclusion, know what they're getting
into, and what they're doing. If not, they'll ask for help on choosing a
distribution. Also, for any XKCD references, search for them on
explainxkcd.org.


Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 9:57 AM Jordan Livesey 
wrote:

> I don't have to tell you this but for the last time, slackware isn't easy
> to use nore is anything based on slackware, which is why it doesn't support
> secure boot also, that is why debian is better
>
> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 3:54 PM D.J.J. Ring, Jr.  wrote:
>
>> And I just stated that Slint was amazingly accessible, accessibility also
>> means easy to use. Slint has the features, at least with additional screen
>> readers, already installed, easy to switch on with a well documented script
>> named "speak-with".
>>
>> That's not a war or any reason for a war, it's just a compliment.
>>
>> I love Debian, although I'd like to install the 10.1 from the
>> installation media and have sound while doing so. I understand it's just my
>> hardware not everyone else's. I'm still trying to figure out the cause, but
>> with multiple problems it's difficult, but I can run Debian 10.1 as root,
>> but I don't want to! So I'll uninstall and reinstall Debian 9.
>>
>> There seems to be someone else who is flooding the list with nonsense
>> which should stop.
>>
>> Samuel, I stand by my statement, accessibility is not only ability to be
>> used, but ease of use, but that wasn't and never should be a call for a
>> war, which is what only you have mentioned.
>>
>> There, I said it. I never mentioned a war, I never called for one, I
>> simply said that it's easier to access accessibility features in Slint,
>> especially true for the newcomer. A compliment, not a wish for war.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 06:20 Samuel Thibault  wrote:
>>
>>> Didier Spaier, le jeu. 30 déc. 2021 10:32:24 +0100, a ecrit:
>>> > On 30/12/2021 08:10, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>>> > > You also have the same choice on other distributions such as Debian.
>>> > >
>>> > > Please don't fall in a distro war, we don't need that.
>>> >
>>> > Well Samuel, you quoted me out of context, I am not the one who
>>> started the war.
>>>
>>> I didn't quote you, I quoted D.J.J. Ring.
>>>
>>> Samuel
>>>
>>>

Re: Christian beliebers here using Debian

[Devin Prater]

There's a nice script called Bible-fetch:

https://github.com/covode/bible-fetch

Which scrapes Biblegateway. This gives access to many versions, and by
default without the verse numbers, which is good for me because I find them
annoying and takes away from the text of the Bible. It's a Python script,
so requires Python and a few dependencies, like Beautifulsoup.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 12:12 PM David Hoff Jr  wrote:

> I believe there is a bit of misunderstanding here. A Swedish person
> trying to use the English language has used the word "fairy" incorrectly.
> His intent was correct, but his word was not.
>
> It would be nice if Linux had a fully functional Bible program which was
> accessible with Orca on the Linux desktop. It does have a console tool
> such as Diatheke which with personalized scripting can be used for
> reading and searching the scripture, but that takes some scripting work.
>
> Windows have a few Bible programs, a few are reasonably accessible, which
> I have used in the past. I took the time to copy every chapter in the
> Bible and save them to a text file which I now use daily for reading.
> These are very useful in Linux, but not the same as a program to use for
> reading and research.
>
> God has provided, we just have to find out how to use the resources he
> provides.
> --
>  
>
>
>

Debian Newbie

[Devin Prater]

Hi all. I'm pretty new to Debian. I started with Arch Linux, since that's
what a lot of blind people I've been around use--the ones who use Linux
anyway--and I was able to use a good bit of it, but had a lot of
frustration with trying to set things up, like embossers, braille
translation, all that. Google Docs was also pretty painful to use. So now
I'm trying Debian, both because I've not really tried it before (since my
personal laptop has a Wi-fi driver that doesn't work with the image, both
free and non-free.

So, I got it to install on this computer (Intel NUC) although I don't think
the Wi-fi works, but I have Ethernet here so it's not that big of an issue.
Accessibility works, and I'm finding that, somehow, Mate is even more
accessible on Debian, with the Run dialog giving a lot more info that
before. Also Debian's accessibility Wiki is pretty encouraging that people
are working on its accessibility. I've also moved to Debian's "unstable"
packages, to get more like a rolling release.

So, I'm trying to start over with Linux in a better way, asking more
questions, and hopefully I'll have a better time with an actually helpful
distro and community. So, any tips or getting-started info?
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com
gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/

Re: [orca-list] accessibility bug after quitting a qt application

[Devin Prater]

Yeah, it's been here for a while in Arch. If you go to the desktop
immediately after quitting the program, you're good. You can also call
an Orca dialog, like Insert + H, then F2 to show keyboard commands.

On 2/22/21 7:10 PM, Jérémy Prego via orca-list wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Since the last update of qt on my debian testing a week ago, I am
> experiencing a bug when I quit a qt application with alt + f4.
>
> i don't think orca is frozen because if i get a notification it will
> read it, but i can't do anything on the keyboard anymore
>
> To get out of this freeze, I just need to call orca preferences with
> orca + space and there I find the interaction with my keyboard.
>
> I specify that I have not yet tried to install a debian testing on a vm
> in order to reproduce the behavior.
>
> Have you heard of this bug?
>
> thanks,
>
> Jerem
> ___
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-l...@gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

Re: RSGames client on Debian 10

[Devin Prater]

I mean, this is Linux. If you want dedicated first-party support, then Windows 
is the better platform. We always need workarounds. That is the Linux way for 
us.

> On Apr 24, 2020, at 11:37 AM, Vojtěch šmiro  wrote:
> 
> They are writing their names on their website, but Terminal says me cannot 
> fing the package.
> 
> I've tried Tintin-RSGames, nice work, but it has some error. If I select some 
> option, write and enter, I have problems with xome error with # and that will 
> be remoed in the next version. And when I play some game, it says me some sh 
> error. I haven't that in front of me, sorry. But it hasn't sounds. I liked 
> RSG not only for games, but for great sounds of course.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Vojta.
> 
> mattias napsal(a):
>> yes you need some extra python packages
>> 
>> i cant remember wich
>> 
>> Den 2020-04-24 kl. 18:23, skrev Vojtěch šmiro:
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> the game works, they made new game after Christmas. But I can't play, I 
>>> have Python-espeak, but game has error. when I go to the terminal, write cd 
>>> rsg and python2.7 rsg.pyc, it doesn't work and has some trace back error.
>>> 
>>> Best regards
>>> 
>>> Vojta.
>>> 
>>> mattias napsal(a):
 yes you can
 
 you have to install some python2.7 packages
 
 e.g python-espeak
 
 i wonder if rsgames are no longer active..
 
 Den 2020-04-24 kl. 17:28, skrev Vojtěch šmiro:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> Is some way to run rsg in Debian? This game is for Windows, linux and 
> Mac. But linux version is old, they instruct how to play it on Vinux and 
> it is not actual. I wrote them, but they didn't answer.
> 
> More info about the game at
> http://www.rsgames.org/
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Vojta.
> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: RSGames client on Debian 10

[Devin Prater]

Try this instead, not sure how updated it is.
https://github.com/stormdragon2976/tintin-rsgames

> On Apr 24, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Vojtěch šmiro  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello.
> 
> Is some way to run rsg in Debian? This game is for Windows, linux and Mac. 
> But linux version is old, they instruct how to play it on Vinux and it is not 
> actual. I wrote them, but they didn't answer.
> 
> More info about the game at
> http://www.rsgames.org/
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Vojta.
> 

Re: boot-time accessibility issues

[Devin Prater]

At least if a Braille Display is connected, accessibility resources should be 
enabled. Also, I don’t think desktops and such should have an accessibility 
toggle. If it doesn’t bother the visuals, accessibility setting for the desktop 
GUI itself, not Orca and such, should always be set to on. That way, if a blind 
person does turn on Orca, the desktop will be accessible. Also, if Fenrir 
becomes a standard, built into distributions, perhaps have a hotkey to turn it 
on at this log in, and have a way to set that as default. Also, desktops should 
come with a key binding for Orca, and display that there is one, and what it 
is, prominently on their help pages.

> On Mar 11, 2020, at 10:35 PM, Jude DaShiell  wrote:
> 
> full circle, solutions zero.
> 
> On Thu, 5 Mar 2020, Rich Morin wrote:
> 
>> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 23:54:14
>> From: Rich Morin 
>> To: debian-b...@lists.debian.org
>> Cc: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org
>> Subject: Re: boot-time accessibility issues
>> Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 02:07:16 + (UTC)
>> Resent-From: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org
>> 
>> Jude DaShiell said:
>> 
>>> If dummy was used for monitor type, the screen reader could come up talking 
>>> without any monitor attached. ...
>> 
>> I can think of a couple of issues with this approach.  First, there are 
>> various reasons for leaving a monitor off a system.  For example, if a RasPi 
>> is being used as a server, running it "headless" might be a normal strategy, 
>> having nothing to do with blindness.
>> 
>> Contrariwise, there are various reasons a blind user might want to keep an 
>> active  monitor.  They might have a sighted associate with whom they 
>> occasionally collaborate. Alternatively, they might want to run a touch 
>> screen (e.g., to type on).
>> 
>> The fundamental problem is that keying off the presence of a monitor 
>> complects two separate and otherwise independent phenomena.  So, it's just 
>> asking for conflicts.
>> 
>> -r
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 

Re: New Nuance Conversational Voice

[Devin Prater]

I cannot confirm this, but there is the point that screen readers only send one 
sentence at a time to the speech synthesizer. Now, what happens with Emacspeak 
or other more regular TTS tools I don’t know, but the fact that speech 
synthesizers sound pretty much the same, besides Macintalk, when speaking text 
with screen readers and when using TTS readers, proves pretty soundly to me 
that almost all speech synthesizers do not read further than a sentence.

> On Jan 10, 2020, at 9:53 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr.  wrote:
> 
> Devin,
> 
> Not to go too far off topic with this, but how does it speak only one
> sentence at a time.
> 
> I have nothing to use it on right now, so I don't know.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that this one and only "conversational" voice just
> speak one sentence at a time?
> 
> Agree, that's not conversational, conversations occur in paragraphs,
> even if it's a one word paragraph, like "Good Grief, Charlie Brown."
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David
> 
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:16 AM Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s okay, probably the best Nuance has, but they’ll need to do more than 
>> just go one sentence at a time in order to be “conversational.” I think what 
>> they mean by that is that the voice sounds smooth and pretty, for their 
>> actual customers now, the automated phone software market. Don’t be 
>> surprised if this voice doesn’t sound as great when dealing with long texts 
>> like books which we use, and even screen reading, with our jargon like 
>> “combo box” or “radio button.”
>> 
>> Just trying to be the voice of some reason here.
>> 
>> On Jan 10, 2020, at 8:45 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr.  wrote:
>> 
>> Everyone,
>> 
>> There is only one "conversational" voice at least in any English that I 
>> found.
>> 
>> I was blown away when I listened to it.
>> 
>> It's fabulous.
>> 
>> It's called Zoe conversational.
>> 
>> https://www.nuance.com/omni-channel-customer-engagement/voice-and-ivr/text-to-speech.html
>> 
>> Can Voxin get permission for this? It's not mentioned, but it might be new.
>> 
>> After you hear it, you'll love it.
>> 
>> I want it so much! Gilles, please, pretty please with chocolate croissant 
>> and café au lait, please!
>> 
>> Best
>> David
>> 
>> 

Re: Future of Accessibility in Debian

[Devin Prater]

This is very good. A roadmap will keep them accountable. Thank you so much for 
your work.

> On Nov 10, 2019, at 9:29 AM, Jean-Philippe MENGUAL  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Le 10/11/2019 à 15:23, Devin Prater a écrit :
>> Yes, this is true. I forget that she is the only active developer of Orca, 
>> sorry. I simply want the developer of Orca to be talking with the people 
>> that point fingers at Orca as the problem because Obviously, screen 
>> readers are magic and can do things for blind people that transcend the GUI 
>> or something.
> 
> That is what we will do on February. Joanie cannot do this alone. She has 
> been fighting with this people for a long, now we need to help her. On 
> February, we will meet GTK and Gnome guys for this. I hope we will be as 
> constructive as possible, with end-user point of view, technical point of 
> view, funding point of view, meeting foundation, devs, power users, advanced 
> ones, companies. It needs to result a roadmap, a better understanding of the 
> accessibility matter, etc
> 
> Regards
> 
> Best regards,
> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2019, at 5:40 AM, Samuel Thibault  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Samuel Thibault, le dim. 10 nov. 2019 12:33:17 +0100, a ecrit:
>>>> Devin Prater, le dim. 10 nov. 2019 02:46:51 -0600, a ecrit:
>>>>> if GTK4 folks say it’s Orca’s fault, put an issue on Orca, and
>>>>> loop them all in, grab some popcorn, and watch them point fingers.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't think we want to make Joanmarie handle that.
>>> 
>>> (I meant make her have to handle that, i.e. she already has plenty of
>>> things to handle in Orca itself)
>>> 
>>> Samuel

Re: Future of Accessibility in Debian

[Devin Prater]

Yes, this is true. I forget that she is the only active developer of Orca, 
sorry. I simply want the developer of Orca to be talking with the people that 
point fingers at Orca as the problem because Obviously, screen readers 
are magic and can do things for blind people that transcend the GUI or 
something.

> On Nov 10, 2019, at 5:40 AM, Samuel Thibault  wrote:
> 
> Samuel Thibault, le dim. 10 nov. 2019 12:33:17 +0100, a ecrit:
>> Devin Prater, le dim. 10 nov. 2019 02:46:51 -0600, a ecrit:
>>> if GTK4 folks say it’s Orca’s fault, put an issue on Orca, and
>>> loop them all in, grab some popcorn, and watch them point fingers.
>> 
>> I don't think we want to make Joanmarie handle that.
> 
> (I meant make her have to handle that, i.e. she already has plenty of
> things to handle in Orca itself)
> 
> Samuel

Re: Future of Accessibility in Debian

[Devin Prater]

Thank you for your fair, calm message. Yes, Linux accessibility is at a crisis 
point, but we do have four years to change this, even make things better than 
they have ever been. Now, that doesn’t mean we should just wait until three 
years have passed, then jump to action, but we don’t have to worry that Linux 
won’t stop working in a month or so unless we find each GTK developer and 
personally go all “how dare you!” On them and demand things. While I do still 
think that Linux developers, like all large companies, need accountability, we 
can at least leave a “paper trail” as it were, on Github.

Some one correct me if I’m wrong, but all states of an issue are logged, all 
comments kept, and these cannot be deleted from a Github project, unless that 
project is deleted. So, we can ask, in a calm, informative way, that, for 
example, the Gnome Dash be fixed, so that it reports more than just “window” 
when entered, or that the Mate menu, I assume that’s what’s being used on F123 
for graphical menus, be fixed so that Orca will report when one has entered 
into that menu. Give developers links to ATK documentation, Orca documentation, 
then, importantly, post the link to that issue to a list, like the Orca list, 
or the Linux-accessibility list if there is one, or the IRC #accessibility 
channel for those who have those bounce things that let them stay online all 
the time. Developers then can work on that issue, giving comments, dialoging 
with the community, following and commenting on the thread themselves, letting 
the developer know that this is something that will help. Or, they can close 
the thread, letting us know that accessibility isn’t important to that area of 
Linux if another developer doesn’t open it again. Then, we go on Twitter, 
Facebook, Mastodon, IRC, Email, contact the FSF and such, pound the message 
into stone if that makes a difference, that accessibility matters, and 
volunteers must be held accountable in order to make Linux free for all, not 
just free for those who have eyes that are operational, with all their circuits 
functioning perfectly. I think we’ll have to change the Linux accessibility 
landscape one Github or Gitlab issue at a time. And yes, there will be 
failings. There will be times when we’ll all have to shout “Shame! Shame! 
Shame!” At a developer for failing our community. But, as the failing of Linux, 
Antergos Sonar, and Coconut Linux has shown, we can’t do this on our own, and 
we cannot let developers expect that we can just make our own distributions. 
I’d love it if we could, really. Sonar was amazing. But it failed, so we have 
to try to raise awareness however we can, not just on Forums for distress, but 
on Github issues, where developers cannot ignore it. And, if GTK4 folks say 
it’s Orca’s fault, put an issue on Orca, and loop them all in, grab some 
popcorn, and watch them point fingers. Then, if it’s not resolved, post it to 
the world, paint the picture of how there just isn’t any resolution in free 
software.

Also, there is the “bug bounty” system that some open source projects do, like 
Libretro, of Retroarch. If people cannot do Accessibility because of the 
inherent value of humans with disabilities, offer them money. Yes, it’s not the 
best for the free software facade of being “above all that”, but it works 
sometimes, and it is needed sometimes.

> On Nov 9, 2019, at 12:44 AM, Vojtěch Šmiro  wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> 
> Hypra is great, I have it from May this year and it is super. It isn't good 
> to fight together what is better than something. Every system is good for 
> some actions, some is accessible, some is more or less accessible. Anyway, 
> this is Debian list and here we would solve Debian problems, not fight what 
> is better or worse. Linux accessibility is in bad crisis. If we don't become 
> united, linux accessibility will end and many people, who aren't rich won't 
> have any computer. Anybody can't have Mac. Mac cannot be legally installed on 
> another computers than Apple computers.
> 
> 
> Best regards
> 
> 
> Vojta.
> 
> 
> 
> Dne 08. 11. 19 v 18:15 Jean-Philippe MENGUAL napsal(a):
>>> 
>>> Assuming that you still work at Hypra, I don't think that it is
>>> acceptable to use your debian.org e-mail to promote your work place.
>> 
>> This work place works for Debian. So I dont see the problem. It works 
>> not-paid by Debian for Debian, so my job is a volunteer action for Debian. 
>> Thanks to Hypra, more than 500 new users use Debian. So yes, I created a 
>> project where I tried to fund a fulltime team to improve Debian, upstream 
>> and downstream, accessibility. I mix economical action and ethical action.
>> 
>> Note that Debian developers can request for a certificate to show they are 
>> dev, there is not reason then to separate artificially 2 areas if they are 
>> so joint.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Clearly, those e-mail should be removed because they fall under spam or
>>> promotional e-mails.
>> 
>> Remove these about Mac 

Re: Future of Accessibility in Debian

[Devin Prater]

Thanks so much for this information. I did have the impression that volunteers 
work on this, I should have done more research. Also, thanks Jean-Philippe for 
the much easier ways of contributing to all this than the knee-jerk reaction of 
some people of “Well if you don’t like it then make it yourself and stop 
complaining because Linux is good the way it is,” sort of thing. I’ve already 
submitted issues to Github projects, mostly emulators because game 
accessibility is important to me, but yes, accessibility to a whole operating 
system is quite a bit more so, and activism of this type sometimes does work 
out well. At the very least, developers see this, it is an open issue that they 
can’t easily ignore unless they close it—and even then it is still there so one 
could reference it on conversations—and at most issues get fixed, or features 
are implemented.

> On Nov 8, 2019, at 6:15 AM, thom...@fastmail.cn wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2019, at 3:21 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
>> I would definitely recommend the Mac. You’ll still be able to run free 
>> software, in an environment like Unix. Optionally, if you use the command 
>> line, check out https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr
>> 
>> It isn’t as powerful as Fenrir or Speak, but it gets the job done well. 
>> Also, the graphical utilities that come with the Mac, Safari, Mail, 
>> text-edit, are great also. There is spell checking, autocorrect, text 
>> replacement, and AppleScripting and Automation, all configurable, throughout 
>> the system, not just in your word processor, all accessible with VoiceOver.
>> 
>> Of course, there are current bugs. In Safari, you hear “insertion point at 
>> (nil)” at the end of every paragraph unless you use the arrow keys, and not 
>> VoiceOver navigation, to read. These bugs are usually fixed within the year 
>> of a version release, and the releases are often much better than the public 
>> beta versions.
>> 
>> I seriously hope that Linux stays accessible, because I’d hate to see free 
>> software let us down so majorly. But, volunteers are not held to a standard 
>> of accessibility, so I will not be shocked if all we have left in Linux is 
>> the command line.
> 
> This is all helpful information. I did some research after I wrote this and 
> found that these are not volunteers at all. All pushing against our patches 
> are individuals working for IBM to ship a commercial Linux desktop and are 
> actually being paid by them to work on these things. I think it is honestly 
> quite shameful to see representatives of such a prominant tech company behave 
> in this way. If it were just ignoring patches it would be one thing, however, 
> many of these individuals are also actually fighting against the patches and 
> making discriminatory comments along the way. You have small groups of 
> individuals (Hypra and Igalia) who have 0 the budgets of IBM when rounding to 
> integers trying to improve things, yet IBM are impeding progress. Also, 
> completely volunteer groups of individuals like Debian manage to ship an 
> accessible desktop, yet IBM can't be bothered to do the same and have now 
> gone a step further by attacking those who try to do so. It all just sounds 
> really screwed up to me. These people come from places with oodles of money 
> and tell us we need a new way of doing things yet they won't pony up the 
> money to accomplish anything that they ask for.
>>> On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:21 PM, thom...@fastmail.cn wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> I have followed the discussion on the orca list lately and the conflicts 
>>> around GTK 4 accessibility. I guess without getting into the drama of it 
>>> all, I would just like to ask those who are knowledgeable if they think we 
>>> will have Linux accessibility going into the future. I guess the issue 
>>> seems to be that patches are being created for what upstream thinks is a 
>>> broken system in some ways and it sounds like things like keyboard snooping 
>>> could cause problems in the future. I honestly don't know enough to 
>>> understand whether its broken from a design standpoint, however, it at 
>>> least lets me use the computer.
>>> I am not a skilled enough developer to understand all this yet but I rely 
>>> on accessibility software for my job. I guess I would just like as honest 
>>> as an answer as possible. If people think accessibility is going to be 
>>> removed or key parts of the needed infrastructure, I see no other option 
>>> than to buy a Mac now so that I can continue to operate the computer in the 
>>> future. I did notice some comments that proposed removing ATK entirely 
>>> which obviously

Re: Future of Accessibility in Debian

[Devin Prater]

Matias, I am not glorifying the Mac. I was pointing out the things that are 
different, or advantageous to us blind folk. In no way did I say that the Mac 
is for everyone, and indeed it isn’t. Also, I am no Fanboy of any platform, I 
use what I find to be the best for me. If that is Apple products at this time, 
then that’s what I’ll use. If Linux becomes the most accessible platform in my 
view, I will no hesitate to use it. So then, clear the red from your vision. To 
not feel attacked just because your preferred platform may not have all the 
nice features of a Mac, or for whatever reason you’ve decided to label me a Mac 
Fanboy and such. Really, if you do not get paid by an organization or company, 
whether it be the Free Software Foundation, Microsoft, Apple, or Google, do not 
fight for them, they don’t care about your livelihood. I talked about the Mac 
because I find it useful and good for my work. People who play audio games, or 
whose workplace is ensconced within Microsoft products, who who are in the 
healthcare business which seems to use Windows heavily, or who work on the JAWS 
screen reader, for example, would want Windows. But for just about anything 
else, a Mac is a good computer, unless you really don’t have the money, and 
have no good way to save up for it, or if free software that one can read, 
understand, and make better, then Linux will be the only choice.

Now, F123 looks very promising, so one may check that out, they seem to be 
doing very good work with Linux, and indeed, Linux accessibility, by making 
inexpensive computers which, I am sure, don’t use many resources, so 4 gigs of 
Ram is more than enough to do plenty with. Now, it is running Raspberry Pi, so 
you won’t get Voxin, but it comes with Mimic by default, and eSpeak, so speech 
quality isn’t so bad of an issue. I could see that really taking off, even for 
people in the states who are tired of Windows changing every few months, and 
bugs and screen reader upgrades (JAWS at least), but don’t want a Mac either, 
or who can’t afford one. But it runs Arch, so I’d keep discussion of it on the 
F123 list, but it is an option, if only because one could stick with GTK3 on it.

> On Nov 8, 2019, at 2:35 AM,   
> wrote:
> 
> Devin we know you are a mac fanboy!
> But stop glorify mac
> Mac are not for everyone
> Mac are not perfect
>  
> Skickades från E-post <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> för 
> Windows 10
>  
> Från: Devin Prater <mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>
> Skickat: den 8 november 2019 09:21
> Till: thom...@fastmail.cn <mailto:thom...@fastmail.cn>
> Kopia: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org 
> <mailto:debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org>
> Ämne: Re: Future of Accessibility in Debian
>  
> I would definitely recommend the Mac. You’ll still be able to run free 
> software, in an environment like Unix. Optionally, if you use the command 
> line, check out https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>
>  
> It isn’t as powerful as Fenrir or Speak, but it gets the job done well. Also, 
> the graphical utilities that come with the Mac, Safari, Mail, text-edit, are 
> great also. There is spell checking, autocorrect, text replacement, and 
> AppleScripting and Automation, all configurable, throughout the system, not 
> just in your word processor, all accessible with VoiceOver.
>  
> Of course, there are current bugs. In Safari, you hear “insertion point at 
> (nil)” at the end of every paragraph unless you use the arrow keys, and not 
> VoiceOver navigation, to read. These bugs are usually fixed within the year 
> of a version release, and the releases are often much better than the public 
> beta versions.
>  
> I seriously hope that Linux stays accessible, because I’d hate to see free 
> software let us down so majorly. But, volunteers are not held to a standard 
> of accessibility, so I will not be shocked if all we have left in Linux is 
> the command line.
> 
> 
> On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:21 PM, thom...@fastmail.cn <mailto:thom...@fastmail.cn> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
> I have followed the discussion on the orca list lately and the conflicts 
> around GTK 4 accessibility. I guess without getting into the drama of it all, 
> I would just like to ask those who are knowledgeable if they think we will 
> have Linux accessibility going into the future. I guess the issue seems to be 
> that patches are being created for what upstream thinks is a broken system in 
> some ways and it sounds like things like keyboard snooping could cause 
> problems in the future. I honestly don't know enough to understand whether 
> its broken from a design standpoint, however, it at least lets me use the 
> computer.
> I am not a skilled enough developer to understand all this yet but I rely on 
> 

Re: Future of Accessibility in Debian

[Devin Prater]

I would definitely recommend the Mac. You’ll still be able to run free 
software, in an environment like Unix. Optionally, if you use the command line, 
check out https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 

It isn’t as powerful as Fenrir or Speak, but it gets the job done well. Also, 
the graphical utilities that come with the Mac, Safari, Mail, text-edit, are 
great also. There is spell checking, autocorrect, text replacement, and 
AppleScripting and Automation, all configurable, throughout the system, not 
just in your word processor, all accessible with VoiceOver.

Of course, there are current bugs. In Safari, you hear “insertion point at 
(nil)” at the end of every paragraph unless you use the arrow keys, and not 
VoiceOver navigation, to read. These bugs are usually fixed within the year of 
a version release, and the releases are often much better than the public beta 
versions.

I seriously hope that Linux stays accessible, because I’d hate to see free 
software let us down so majorly. But, volunteers are not held to a standard of 
accessibility, so I will not be shocked if all we have left in Linux is the 
command line.

> On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:21 PM, thom...@fastmail.cn wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I have followed the discussion on the orca list lately and the conflicts 
> around GTK 4 accessibility. I guess without getting into the drama of it all, 
> I would just like to ask those who are knowledgeable if they think we will 
> have Linux accessibility going into the future. I guess the issue seems to be 
> that patches are being created for what upstream thinks is a broken system in 
> some ways and it sounds like things like keyboard snooping could cause 
> problems in the future. I honestly don't know enough to understand whether 
> its broken from a design standpoint, however, it at least lets me use the 
> computer.
> I am not a skilled enough developer to understand all this yet but I rely on 
> accessibility software for my job. I guess I would just like as honest as an 
> answer as possible. If people think accessibility is going to be removed or 
> key parts of the needed infrastructure, I see no other option than to buy a 
> Mac now so that I can continue to operate the computer in the future. I did 
> notice some comments that proposed removing ATK entirely which obviously 
> would leave me dead in the water.. Ultimately, if the end is approaching, I 
> would like to purchase a Mac  as soon as possible since I will have to 
> relearn the computer and a new screen reader (VoiceOver and would like as 
> smooth a transition as possible.
> I love using free software and hope to continue doing so, however, I 
> ultimately have to do what is necessary to keep my job so I can support 
> myself.
> Thanks for any information and i hope those here can understand my concerns 
> and honestly just not knowing what to do based on not having the technical 
> knowledge to understand entirely what is happening in the different upstream 
> packages.
> 

Re: How to reply and or post?

[Devin Prater]

Replying on top helps a lot. Some visually impaired or blind people reply 
inline or on bottom, but I don’t know how they, themselves, read that kind of 
mail efficiently.

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> 
> I am not visually impaired.
> How do I format a post or reply to accommodate multiple tools and or users?
> 

Re: Things to cover in my bits from the DPL talk at Debconf

[Devin Prater]

Along with the good, I’d also talk about the not so good, inaccessibility of QT 
apps, like Rosegarden, and even CLI applications, like RTV, and Gnu Typist, and 
the complexity of setting up CLI apps which can be made accessible, like Mutt, 
VIM, and Alpine.

I’d also demonstrate Emacs with Emacspeak, if possible, to show the—in my 
oppinion—greatest setup for blind users of Linux, if you can work within the 
confines of Emacs.

I’d also stress the need for remembering accessibility for all software 
developers, and the need for accessible educational programs, like typing 
tutors for adults, not just children, and applications for embossing braille. 
BrailleBlaster does have a Linux application, but it fails to run, at least 
with Orca enabled.

Speaking of Orca, I’d stress that it is open source as well, and that if a 
developer finds that it does not work with their application, it can be 
scripted to do so.

Seriously, open source has a great opportunity to change the lives of blind 
people, including people who are not developers, for the better. But, as long 
as inaccessible frameworks are popular, CLI apps are too complex to be used by 
normal computer users, and use ways of displaying content that are hard for 
screen readers to use, Gnu Typist, and accessible educational programs do not 
exist that meet the need of adult users, Linux for the blind cannot take off in 
any meaningful significance.

As an Assistive Technology Instructor and sympathizer of free software, I would 
love to one day recommend Linux as an amazing access solution, but cannot 
because of the above concerns. The more developers who know of these concerns, 
perhaps the more good can be done to address them.

> On Jul 12, 2019, at 10:12 AM, Samuel Thibault  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> To the list: feel free to propose ideas, I guess Cindy will sort it out
> :)
> 
> Cindy Sue Causey, le mer. 10 juil. 2019 01:28:07 -0400, a ecrit:
>> On 7/8/19, Sam Hartman  wrote:
>>> But I'd also like to showcase our community and interesting things that
>>> have happened over the last year.
>> 
>> So, can anyone think of anything about Debian-Accessibility that would
>> fit into what Sam seeks? MANY people have never, for example, heard a
>> screenreader in action.
> 
> I guess Sam could indeed make a demo of his workflow at his usual speed,
> so people have an idea how efficient a blind person can be with a Debian
> desktop, thanks to the work of the community.
> 
> Then it could be useful that Sam makes a demo at slow speed, so people
> can get a grasp of what is going on between the normal desktop, the
> screen reader behavior, and Braille/audio output. In case Sam doesn't
> know, for people to see what he is reading on his Braille device, for
> textmode he can enable window highlight in BRLTTY, and for graphical
> mode he can enable the braille monitor by setting enableBrailleMonitor
> to true in .local/share/orca/user-settings.conf
> 
> 
> I'm thinking that a demo could be made of the compiz-reloaded ezoom
> magnification with focus tracking available in Buster. This can be
> started for instance by running a MATE desktop, running "compiz
> --replace" to replace the marco window manager by compiz, running
> ccsm and in the "Enhanced Zoom Desktop", in the "Focus Tracking" tab,
> check "Enable focus tracking".
> 
> 
> On the speech synthesis side, it can indeed be interesting to mention
> the work done in Curitiba mentioned by Fernando Botelho.  It can also
> be interesting to mention that the University of Mons freed its mbrola
> speech engine. The currently available voice files are not free, but
> this opens up another way for free voices of good quality.
> 
> 
> Samuel
> 

Re: mbrola became free

[Devin Prater]

Will it have the ability to be integrated into eSpeak?

> On Oct 30, 2018, at 7:21 AM, Samuel Thibault  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm happy to announce that mbrola got free :)
> 
> I have uploaded that new version to unstable.
> For now there are no free voices, so it's still in contrib, but some
> free voices will be available so we'll be able to put mbrola in main :)
> 
> Samuel
> 

Re: Fenrir 1.9.2 Released

[Devin Prater]

I would be happy to help. I'll be on IRC tomorrow.



Devin Prater






On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 2:09 PM -0500,  wrote:










Howdy Devin,

Ok thanks for the info :).  Like noticed i do what i can :)..
You own an mac?this is interesting to me sine fenrir should run on mac  
in pty mode as well.
Sadly i dont own an mac. But i want to wire up fenrir for mac. I  
wonder if you would help me to wire up fenrir for mac?
I will fix needed issues but i need ia tester here :). It should also  
run on windows what i do not own ( of course on cli only)


Cheers chrys

Zitat von Devin Prater :

> With attributes, they include italics, bold, underline, things like  
> that. Not too much, but things I would want to know about. They do  
> depend on Braille table. Perhaps NVDA’s Braille implementation can  
> show things possible.
>
>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 1:09 PM, ch...@linux-a11y.org wrote:
>>
>> Howdy John,
>>
>> For my initial work i created an debug braille driver what just  
>> prints the showhn text to stdout.  I will take a look at your link.  
>> The initial brltty driver works i tested it with storm dragon. He  
>> had a braille device. But its verry unpractical to not be able to  
>> verify your own code after doing some changes :). With the debug  
>> driver i will not be able to emulate braille input. But fenrir is  
>> able by design to bind commands to any shortcut also to keyboard  
>> what may help as well :).
>>
>> I will fore sure do what i can ;).  But help is very welcome to  
>> make a perfect job to wire up an best possible result to all :).  
>> But foor example devins attribute stuff ; i dont know what  
>> attributes have an braille eqvivalent and how they look like. Do  
>> they depend on the used braille table?  (Just an example of many  
>> questions i have)
>>
>> Thanks for your links i will investigate.
>>
>> Cheers chrys
>>
>> Zitat von john doe :
>>
>>> On 7/17/2018 7:01 PM, chrys wrote:
>>>> Howdy Devin,
>>>>
>>>> sure thing as soon as i figure how lol. i dont own an braille  
>>>> device so i just can do most of that stuff "blind" lol.
>>>> for stuff like that it would be really awesome to have someone  
>>>> with python dev skills and braille device on my side :). i m not  
>>>> blind so maybe i m not the best person to say how it needs to be  
>>>> done that it is perfect.
>>>> i already started the implementation and basic stuff should be  
>>>> doable but its not production ready yet.
>>>>
>>>> thats why the default braille driver is currently dummy lol. but  
>>>> basic brltty usage is already implemented and also some needed  
>>>> bits to show up some text on the braille device and flush it.
>>>> panning should be in place as well. but all untested lol. i will  
>>>> add your request to the list.
>>>>
>>>> here the outstanding todos if someone wants to dive in and help out :).
>>>> Braille Support:
>>>>   [] brailleFocusMode:
>>>> [] manual = no automatic toggle, command used (text cursor,  
>>>> review cursor, attribute cursor)
>>>> [] last = follow last used cursor (text cursor, review  
>>>> cursor, attribute cursor)
>>>>   [] print cursor in review
>>>>   [] print cursor in textmode / attribute tracking
>>>>   [] word wrapping (if word does not fit print it at next page)
>>>>   [] command toggle used cursor (in manual brailleFocusMode)
>>>>   [] capture input from braile
>>>>   [] make routing keys assignable by keyboard
>>>>   [] make brailleTable configurable
>>>>   [] tuning for the commands, what should be pinned, what should  
>>>> be flushed, what not shown at all.
>>>>
>>>> JFYI same for dectalk :). i want to provide an dectalk speech  
>>>> driver. but i dont own an device. speech drivers designed are  
>>>> really simple. so maybe someone with an device can help out here  
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't have the python skills but maybe you could emulate a brail display:
>>>
>>> https://linux.die.net/man/1/qemu-kvm
>>>
>>> You could have a look at NVDA which is also written in python:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/nvaccess
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Doe
>>
>>
>>

Re: Fenrir 1.9.2 Released

[Devin Prater]

With attributes, they include italics, bold, underline, things like that. Not 
too much, but things I would want to know about. They do depend on Braille 
table. Perhaps NVDA’s Braille implementation can show things possible.

> On Jul 17, 2018, at 1:09 PM, ch...@linux-a11y.org wrote:
> 
> Howdy John,
> 
> For my initial work i created an debug braille driver what just prints the 
> showhn text to stdout.  I will take a look at your link. The initial brltty 
> driver works i tested it with storm dragon. He had a braille device. But its 
> verry unpractical to not be able to verify your own code after doing some 
> changes :). With the debug driver i will not be able to emulate braille 
> input. But fenrir is able by design to bind commands to any shortcut also to 
> keyboard what may help as well :).
> 
> I will fore sure do what i can ;).  But help is very welcome to make a 
> perfect job to wire up an best possible result to all :). But foor example 
> devins attribute stuff ; i dont know what attributes have an braille 
> eqvivalent and how they look like. Do they depend on the used braille table?  
> (Just an example of many questions i have)
> 
> Thanks for your links i will investigate.
> 
> Cheers chrys
> 
> Zitat von john doe :
> 
>> On 7/17/2018 7:01 PM, chrys wrote:
>>> Howdy Devin,
>>> 
>>> sure thing as soon as i figure how lol. i dont own an braille device so i 
>>> just can do most of that stuff "blind" lol.
>>> for stuff like that it would be really awesome to have someone with python 
>>> dev skills and braille device on my side :). i m not blind so maybe i m not 
>>> the best person to say how it needs to be done that it is perfect.
>>> i already started the implementation and basic stuff should be doable but 
>>> its not production ready yet.
>>> 
>>> thats why the default braille driver is currently dummy lol. but basic 
>>> brltty usage is already implemented and also some needed bits to show up 
>>> some text on the braille device and flush it.
>>> panning should be in place as well. but all untested lol. i will add your 
>>> request to the list.
>>> 
>>> here the outstanding todos if someone wants to dive in and help out :).
>>> Braille Support:
>>>   [] brailleFocusMode:
>>> [] manual = no automatic toggle, command used (text cursor, review 
>>> cursor, attribute cursor)
>>> [] last = follow last used cursor (text cursor, review cursor, 
>>> attribute cursor)
>>>   [] print cursor in review
>>>   [] print cursor in textmode / attribute tracking
>>>   [] word wrapping (if word does not fit print it at next page)
>>>   [] command toggle used cursor (in manual brailleFocusMode)
>>>   [] capture input from braile
>>>   [] make routing keys assignable by keyboard
>>>   [] make brailleTable configurable
>>>   [] tuning for the commands, what should be pinned, what should be 
>>> flushed, what not shown at all.
>>> 
>>> JFYI same for dectalk :). i want to provide an dectalk speech driver. but i 
>>> dont own an device. speech drivers designed are really simple. so maybe 
>>> someone with an device can help out here as well.
>>> 
>> 
>> I don't have the python skills but maybe you could emulate a brail display:
>> 
>> https://linux.die.net/man/1/qemu-kvm
>> 
>> You could have a look at NVDA which is also written in python:
>> 
>> https://github.com/nvaccess
>> 
>> -- 
>> John Doe
> 
> 
> 

Re: Fenrir 1.9.2 Released

[Devin Prater]

Thanks for considering Braille support. If poss,bl, please send attributes
of characters or words, if they have a braille equivalent, to the braille
display.
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Bug#857558: brltty: Brltty restarts when typing too fast on Vario Ultra

[Devin Prater]

I've experienced this with Arch Linux, not with Fedora yet though. I 
thought it was just a random occurance, thanks for noticing that it's a bug.



On 03/12/2017 09:31 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote:

Package: brltty
Version: 5.3
Severity: serious
Justification: Makes computer unusable with Vario Ultra devices

Hello,

The brltty support for Vario Ultra has a very inconvenient issue: when
typing too fast (e.g. typing double letters or typing backspace, etc.),
brltty restarts its Baum driver for the device. That makes working with
it very inconvenient. Upstream has commited a fix, I'll upload it
shortly.

Samuel

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 9.0
   APT prefers testing
   APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable-debug'), (500, 
'testing-debug'), (500, 'buildd-unstable'), (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable'), 
(500, 'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental-debug'), (1, 'buildd-experimental'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 4.10.0 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages brltty depends on:
ii  init-system-helpers1.47
ii  libasound2 1.1.3-5
ii  libbluetooth3  5.43-1
ii  libbrlapi0.6   5.4-6
ii  libc6  2.24-9
ii  libglib2.0-0   2.50.3-1
ii  libgpm21.20.4-6.2+b1
ii  libicu57   57.1-5
ii  libncursesw5   6.0+20161126-1
ii  libpolkit-gobject-1-0  0.105-17
ii  libsystemd0232-18
ii  libtinfo5  6.0+20161126-1
ii  lsb-base   9.20161125
ii  policykit-10.105-17

Versions of packages brltty recommends:
ii  python  2.7.13-2

Versions of packages brltty suggests:
pn  brltty-speechd   
ii  brltty-x11   5.4-6
ii  console-braille  1.4

-- Configuration Files:
/etc/brltty.conf changed [not included]

-- no debconf information

Re: Speech Dispatcher cutting off the end of phrases while using Flite

[Devin Prater]

Oh wow, I didn't know flite worked with Orca! I sure hope this works in 
Fedora, which is what I'll be installing. Thanks for bringing this to my 
attention!



On March 5, 2017 3:52:28 PM Samuel Thibault  wrote:


Hello,

am_d...@fastmail.fm, on lun. 20 févr. 2017 12:06:26 -0500, wrote:

I notice that while using Orca with Speech Dispatcher and Flite, the end
of most phrases are cut off. It usually cuts off the second half of the
last word spoken. I was just wondering if anyone has noticed this before
and knows of a fix if one exists. Thanks.


I could reproduce the issue, and will upload a fixed package.

Samuel

Re: espeak-ng is in!

[Devin Prater]

Good. Now the Emacspeak server just has to be updated to work with NG,
currently it's very sluggish, and NG will then be pretty established as
eSpeak's successor.

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Samuel Thibault 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> So espeak-ng has landed in unstable.  For now I have uploaded
> speech-dispatcher, espeakup and brltty against espeak-ng.  That should
> be making them behave much better against pulseaudio.
>
> Samuel
>
>

Re: Debian potential user, a question or two

[Devin Prater]

Thanks for the tips, y'all. I got Debian installed, which was a joy to do.
I used the net installer for the 64-bit version. I installed in VmWare, and
it all went pretty good until I restarted. After the beep, I pressed s, but
then, using an OCR addon for NVDA, I learned that the log in screen had
come up, there was no speech. I got into a console, no speech there either,
made sure the volume was up by piping output of commands to eSpeak, and
made sure Orca was installed as well. Any ideas?

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Samuel Thibault 
wrote:

> Michael A Ray, on Wed 21 Sep 2016 18:34:15 +0100, wrote:
> > I am a totally blind Debian user and I regularly use the Net Install
> > method.  It works very well, except you will need headphones since for
> > some reason the volume is very low.
>
> ?!
> That's completely unexpected and hasn't been reported to my
> knowledge. Levels are supposed to be put at 80%, just like they are at
> reboot in the installed system. Please report debugging information as
> documented on
> http://wiki.debian.org/accessibility
>
> Also note that as documented in the installer manual in the
> accessibility chapter
> (https://d-i.debian.org/manual/en.i386/ch05s02.html) you can make the
> volume louder by pressing Capslock+2
>
> Samuel
>

Debian potential user, a question or two

[Devin Prater]

Hi all. I feel as though I've traveled the operating system globe. I
started out with Windows, then got a Mac when the Mac accessibility started
making waves among the blind, around the MountLion/Maverics days. Then I
got into Emacspeak, and since I used that so much, I thought Linux would be
a good fit for me. Over the years, I'd gotten a grip on Linux, through
virtual machines. So I installed Sonar Gnu-Linux, a dirivitive of arch, on
the Mac Mini I've had. Well, Voxin installed well on it, but Emacspeak was
slow with the eSpeak server, and didn't work with the Voxin server at all.
So, I've decided to give Debian a go, within a virtual machine on my new
Windows laptop, core i7, 8 gigs ram. Any ideas on how I should proceed? Is
there a simple CLI version that would possibly work, as Linux in the GUI
just doesn't work well enough for me to use effectively.
Thanks for any help.
Devin Pratersent from Gmail.