Re: Status of Lenny Release GR

[Gunnar Wolf]

Bdale Garbee dijo [Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 08:59:19AM -0700]:
 The closing time specified in the original call for votes was in error,
 as the timing was supposed to be shortened for discussion periods but
 not the actual voting interval.  Thus, I believe the vote in process
 should properly end at 23:59:59 on Saturday, December 28th, 2008.

On a lighter note, it is funny to see possibly the most controversial
vote in Debian's history finishing in what in the Spanish-speaking
countries is equivalent to the Anglo-saxon April 1st (the Day of the
Innocent Saints).

Greetings,

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PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973  F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF


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Re: Is Ubuntu commited to free software?

[Gunnar Wolf]

 Bananas - proprietary trial ware, suffers from rapid bit-rot,
 operate your stomach in chroot jail mode before consumption =))

Chrooted bananas, often refered to as _hybrid_ bananas, are by far not
the norm. While I don't fundamentally oppose the idea the quick banana
bitrot process could be lengthened and improved by chrooting the build
process, say, in an Apple environment, it is still out of reach for
most of its regular users.

Also, as a regular banana user (I use them on a daily basis), I must
correct your assertions: Bananas never enter the stomach before
consumption (unless, of course, by consumption you mean only the
final stages of it - but formally, banana consumption is accepted to
happen at the precise moment a Banana enters your system through
Mouth.iostream) 

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Re: Is Ubuntu commited to free software?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Martin Bähr dijo [Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 11:58:41AM +0200]:
 On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 09:08:30AM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
   Bananas - proprietary trial ware, suffers from rapid bit-rot,
  the quick banana bitrot process could be lengthened and improved 
 
 i'd like to object to the notion that bananas bit-rot rapidly. on the
 contrary, bananas can still be consumed when the peel starts to turn
 black. in fact the longer you wait the sweeter they get. bit-rot does
 not even set in until after those black spots appear. at that point
 however bit-rot happens at the same speed as with most products.
 
 the common perception of banana bit-rot is skewed by supermarkets
 exclusively serving alpha and beta quality products that require the
 user to wait until the product has reached maturity. most users consume
 bananas prematurely and are thus not aware of how a mature banana is
 supposed to taste like.

Buff... Around 2.5 years ago, I spent a vacation in Playa Azúl,
Michoacán (South-Western Pacific coast of Mexico). The people I stayed
with gave me a bunch of bananas ripened on the plant. Each was the
size to 2-3 regular bananas, and really delicious! Uncomparable to
any bananas I have ever found in the city.

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Re: About DDs not maintaining packages

[Gunnar Wolf]

Enrico Zini dijo [Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 12:58:36AM +0200]:
 On Sat, Jul 03, 2010 at 01:58:45PM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
  On sam., 2010-07-03 at 13:45 +0200, Hector Oron wrote:
   Excuse my english wording, I am not native speaker (yet).
  Does this mean to intend to become a native speaker? I'd be interested
  in how you'd manage to do that :)
 
 It's surprising that, in 2010, there are still people who haven't heard
 of reincarnation.

Not even that is needed. You just have to be born again in Jesus^WEnglish.

Greetings,


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Re: About DDs not maintaining packages

[Gunnar Wolf]

Joerg Jaspert dijo [Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 10:44:27AM +0200]:
Excuse my english wording, I am not native speaker (yet).
   Does this mean to intend to become a native speaker? I'd be interested
   in how you'd manage to do that :)
  It's surprising that, in 2010, there are still people who haven't heard
  of reincarnation.
  Does this mean you'll have to re-take the NM (ND?) process?
 
 Not if you can manage to convince DAM who you have been in your prior
 life and that one happened to be a DD.
 Good thing would be to know something that only DAM and that prior
 incarnation of yours knew. Shared secret and such things, you know.

Keep in mind that given a reincarnation, you will probably skip a
couple of WAT pings until you get hold of spoken and written language
(regardless of which native language it is).


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Re: Dropping the .0 on release numbers?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Simon Paillard dijo [Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:05:57PM +0200]:
 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:25:25PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
  We have carried a major.minor scheme as a release numbering scheme
  since the Early Days,
 [..]
  So, for the past years we have had x.0.y with growing `y' for point
  releases, and skiping to (x+1).0.0. And the zero in the middle carries
  no meaning anymore.
 
 On a related note, if we want dots, sub versions to be meaninful, using
 them in the ISO name scheme as well may help.
 
 Many people downloaded Debian 505 recently.
 
 See #506489.

...At least they didn't get a 404 when trying to download Debian


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Re: [MeeGo-dev] Packaging the MeeGo stack on Debian - Use the name?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Robinson Tryon dijo [Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 07:18:43AM -0500]:
 (...)
 It would actually be rather slick if projects just used their names
 frontwise-round as a trademarked term, and allowed the community to
 use their names in reverse to merely indicate heritage (meego -
 ogeem, debian - naibed, etc...). This would provide a
 standardized method for pointing at the upstream project without
 stepping on any Trademark toes.
 
 (Pronunciation is left as an exercise for the reader)

Hmmm, I wonder whether Xoferif (by the Noitadnuof Allizom) is
pronounceable enough.

 (Palindromicly-named projects (e.g. PHP) pose a particular problem)

Well, we can always say that our PHP is spelt backwards. Or we can
call it qhq.


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Re: [MeeGo-dev] Packaging the MeeGo stack on Debian - Use the name?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Adrian von Bidder dijo [Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 07:51:44PM +0100]:
 On Friday 10 December 2010 17.36:13 Gunnar Wolf wrote:
   (Palindromicly-named projects (e.g. PHP) pose a particular problem)
  
  Well, we can always say that our PHP is spelt backwards. Or we can
  call it qhq.
 
 Who would want to create a decendant / fork of PHP anyway?



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Re: [Debconf-team] Planning arrival/departure buses

[Gunnar Wolf]

Moray Allan dijo [Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 12:14:39AM +0100]:
 On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Gunnar Wolf gw...@gwolf.org wrote:
  /me notes that if _only_ the average DD can reach the venue, we might
  have a total population ≥49% of the DebConf registration lost and
  looking for their way in the Bosnian mountains :-}
 
 It's ok, some of the worst cases should still be on an island off the
 west coast of Scotland looking for the ferry home.

Hmm, so DebConf is a program to slowly increase the geospatial
abilities in the computer geek?


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Re: [Debconf-team] Magazine Ad is ready!

[Gunnar Wolf]

Holger Levsen dijo [Mon, May 30, 2011 at 11:10:26PM +0200]:
 On Montag, 30. Mai 2011, Christian PERRIER wrote:
  Quoting Holger Levsen (hol...@layer-acht.org):
   Remember, the The People's Liberation Front of Judea is something very
   different to the Judean People's Liberation Front!
  You Heretic! This is the People's Front of Judea (not to be confused
  with Judean People's Front). There has never been any mention of
  Liberation whatsoever. WTH are you thinking about?
 
 Liberation. (ttf)

Oh, is that the People Liberation Font of Judea?


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Re: Comments on the constitution?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Steve McIntyre dijo [Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 08:16:19PM +0100]:
 Humm… An idea could be:
 
 ‣ The term is defined to be for one year, with the possibility of one
   automatic renewal
 ‣ If by (election date + 10 months) the DPL sends a (signed,
   validated, blah) message, a simple referendum is held: secret vote
   between a yes and a no (and... Further discussion? :-} )
   ‣ If the DPL seeking renewal gets a majority, his term is prolonged to
 a second year
   ‣ If the DPL does not get a majority, he can still participate in a
 regular election
 ‣ This mechanism can only be used once — A DPL wanting to run a third
   term must win a regular (full) election
 
 /me shudders at the extra complexity, especially how it would be
 worded in the constitution. I'm tempted to say: let's just leave
 things the way they are.

Oh, just wait until we get in DEP(n+1) where we require the
Constitution to be automatically parsable as well.


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Re: Bug#646804: ITP: cheermeup -- Send affirmative messages to the user via the notification library

[Gunnar Wolf]

Steve McIntyre dijo [Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 04:38:47PM +0100]:
 Ole Wolf wrote:
 Package: wnpp
 Severity: wishlist
 Owner: Ole Wolf w...@blazingangles.com
 
 
 * Package name: cheermeup
   Version : 0.5-1
   Upstream Author : Ole Wolf w...@blazingangles.com
 * URL : http://debian.blazingangles.net/cheermeup.html
 * License : GPLv3
   Programming Lang: Bash script
   Description : Send affirmative messages to the user via the 
  notification library
 
 Send an an affirmative message to the currently logged in users via the 
 notification library. The
 affirmative messages are intended to boost the user's self-esteem by telling 
 the user he or she
 is a great person, that someone loves him or her, etc.
 
 Seriously?

Steve, you are an intelligent man and much praise-worthy.


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Re: ITP: wcstools -- Create display and manipulate the world coordinate system

[Gunnar Wolf]

Joachim Breitner dijo [Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 05:38:18PM +0100]:
 Description : Create display and manipulate the world coordinate 
  system 
 
 This should somehow mention that you are modifying picture; I would not
 want a software in Debian that allows anyone to manipulate the
 coordinate system of the real world, as I might not find the way home
 then ;-)

If you discriminate against my legitimate need to manipulate the
coordinate system of the real world, you are in direct contravention
of DFSG#5!


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Re: [Debconf-team] Debconf12 website design

[Gunnar Wolf]

Damyan Ivanov dijo [Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 08:12:37AM +0200]:
 It is great!
 
 Two notes:
 
  * there is a spelling mistake in the sponsor section titles (Steal 
should be Steel)

No. We intend to surreptitiously take things away from different
providers. Only we don't want that to be such a bad issue - So we are
granting them the steal sponsorship category.


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Re: [Debconf-team] dc13 venue announcement? (was: [Publicity-commits] r3231 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)

[Gunnar Wolf]

Moray Allan dijo [Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 11:11:41AM +]:
  I've just applied changes suggested.
  I've also dropped any mention of Vaumarcus, as requested by Moray, and
  used something more generic (on the banks of Lac de Neuchâtel in
  Switzerland as suggested by Gregorr)
 
 I haven't changed SVN as this may be just me:
 
 I think rivers have banks, but lakes have shores.  Opinions from other
 native English speakers?  (This is the kind of thing that could easily
 vary by region.)

Oh, but this is Switzerland. In kindergarten you are given a
bank. Some kids decide not to grow up to be bankers, so before they
are deprived of their nationality, they have to drop it in a nice,
natural setting. Sometimes, camp places grow up around them.


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Re: [Debconf-team] dc13 venue announcement? (was: [Publicity-commits] r3231 - /dpn/en/current/index.wml)

[Gunnar Wolf]

Enrico Zini dijo [Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 10:39:37PM +0100]:
 On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 10:51:55AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
 
  natural setting. Sometimes, camp places grow up around them.
 
 People think Swiss are boring people, but it turns out they grow camp
 places! Finally, a debconf with everyone wearing a ridiculous fancy
 dress!

Er, like in Scotland?

Or without a dress, as in Helsinki?

Debian people know how to have fun. And DebConf is the best place for
it.

/shameless_plug


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Re: Private conversation

[Gunnar Wolf]

binBz88JCvGT6.bin
Description: application/pgp-encrypted


msg.asc
Description: Binary data

Re: Call for vote - Diversity statement for the Debian Project

[Gunnar Wolf]

Kurt Roeckx dijo [Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:28:32AM +0200]:
  A corresponding ballot might look like the following:
  
  ---
  [   ] Choice 1: Welcome everyone
  [   ] Choice 2: Further discussion
  ---
 
 I'll start the vote during the weekend.  But I need to think about
 the name of the option, I wasn't very happy with it when I wrote
 that.

To me, it looks you were very happy!


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Re: sobre como inclinar mi pantalla de forma virtual.

[Gunnar Wolf]

Victor Hugo Cespedes Zuleta dijo [Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 09:02:09AM -0700]:
 hola listeros debianeros.
 
 jugando con las teclas en windows me di cuenta que con ALTGR + alguna
 flecha. la pantalla se inclina en 90 grados a la izquierda o derecha.
 inclusive se puede rotar la imagen de pantalla 180 grados. en este
 caso el mouse funcionaria al reves.
 
 pues bien, ya con esa introducción quisiera saber si alguien tiene
 experiencia exitosa logrando rotar no solo de forma lógica sino
 tambien física.
 (...)

[ Curiosely, this is an off-topic mail for debian-curiosa. I think
  this is the first example in many years! Redirecting the user to the
  proper list, and quickly mentioning an answer ]

Hola Victor Hugo,

Esta lista no se usa para preguntas de usuarios o soporte técnico,
sino para redirigir cosas graciosas/curiosas que ocurren en las demás
listas del proyecto. Te sugiero dirigir preguntas como esta en la
lista de usuarios en español - debian-user-span...@lists.debian.org

Como sea - La respuesta a tu pregunta es muy simple. Asómate al
comando xrandr — Yo uso mi pantalla vertical; para lograrlo, 

$ xrandr --output VGA1 --rotate left

En la portátil muchas veces trabajo a dos pantallas, entonces:

$ xrandr --output VGA1 --rotate left --left-of LVDS1

¿Más detalles, aplicaciones gráficas o una mejor respuesta?
debian-user-span...@lists.debian.org


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Re: A common configuration format, anyone?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Holger Levsen dijo [Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 01:10:41PM +0100]:
 On Mittwoch, 14. November 2012, Игорь Пашев wrote:
  XML is not human-readable :-)
 
 either, 
   you have not seen good XML, or
   you are not human, or
   you cannot read.

No, Holger, you are really mistaken! XML is clearly a non-modifiable,
one-way-encrypted way of storing information. Or so seems to think
Luis Eduardo Bastías in a newspaper opinion article that really made
me laugh last week:

http://www.latercera.com/noticia/opinion/correos-de-los-lectores/2012/11/896-492551-9-elecciones-y-voto-electronico.shtml

Partial translation,

While it is true that infallible systems do no exist, which means
that errors and delays are unavoidable, they can be drastically
reduced if we simplify and automatize our election processes by
the way of the electronic vote.

For that, it is advisable that each individual vote is stored as a
XML file, to fully satisfy the requirements established in
D.S. No. 81 dated in 2004 and its modifications. This way we will
guarantee that each vote will be stored in its original format,
corresponding to an electronic document, and among other things
will be ready for review when needed.

Did I say that the author signs as informatic civil engineer? He
clearly knows how to build XML structures in cement.


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Re: webmail administrador

[Gunnar Wolf]

Holger Levsen dijo [Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:10:22AM +0100]:
  JFYI, remember you can also report it to Google, by following the link
  located into footer's form.
 
 right, instead of running Debian, you can also run Windows. And Microsoft 
 Word!

...I didn't know MS Word was a mail client!


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Re: webmail administrador

[Gunnar Wolf]

Marcin Sochacki dijo [Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 08:15:54PM +0100]:
 JFYI, remember you can also report it to Google, by following the link
 located into footer's form.
right, instead of running Debian, you can also run Windows. And 
Microsoft 
Word!
   ...I didn't know MS Word was a mail client!
  
  every time someone sends you a letter as a word document, they are using
  word as a mail client.
 
 Every time someone sends a letter as a word document, God kills a
 kitten. Please, think of the kittens.

…Every time you curse at God by the evilness of a word processor
(namely Microsoft Word, but others acceptable as well), God
retroactively kills a baby mammooth thousands of years ago.

Please, think of the baby mamm... Oh, never mind.


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Re: Bug#694749: ITP: GNU Health -- Electronic Medical Record and Hospital Information System

[Gunnar Wolf]

Andreas Tille dijo [Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:51:53AM +0100]:
   
   Package: wnpp
   Severity: wishlist
   Owner: Emilien Klein emilien+deb...@klein.st
  
   * Package name: GNU Health
 (...)
 I think either
 
 gnu-health  or gnuhealth

Something makes me feel this project should not be under debian-med's
umbrella, but under debian-veterinary.

Also, is the program not generalizable to a far more common use-case,
as in bovine-health?


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Re: [all candidates] delegation

[Gunnar Wolf]

Charles Plessy dijo [Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:54:24PM +0900]:
 Hi Moray,
 
 what you wrote here presents the end of a delegation as a final point.
 However, I was very interested by your use of rotation, which I was
 understanding as a faster turnover where the responsibility of the delegation
 is passed through developers according to the pool of compentent people.
 Taking the Debian Policy Editors as example, I would not mind being replaced 
 in
 October 2013, and (provided that I still have the free time), I would not mind
 serving again from October 2104.  All of this without reducing my contribution
 in terms of patches, but only rotating who is responsible for committing them.

I propose a toast, both for your projected longevity and for our
project's! I don't see it as healthy, however, to set a period of *90
years* between stepping down from a delegated role to occupy it again.

However, this topic does raise a question: Knowledge transfer. I might
be arguing on something marginally related to the vote at hand, but
anyway, when delegations shift (be it due to burnout, retirement,
rotation or whatever), we should make it as easy as possible to
transfer the acquired knowledge from the ex-delegates to the new
delegates.

Writing documentation is often seen as a boring, painful task. Yet, it
is a very important thing to do. So, prospective DPLs, would you see
as part of the delegation the requirement for outgoing (if possible, I
know it's not always the case) and incoming delegates an obligation to
check and update documentation with the latest practices?

(yes, the question is almost trivial and somewhat silly... But lost
knowledge due to insufficiently communicating team members can hurt
the whole project!)


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Re: FINAL release update

[Gunnar Wolf]

Neil McGovern dijo [Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 03:22:21PM +0100]:
 Hi all,
 
 Once again, and hopefully for the final time for this cycle, we are
 writing to you with a release update.
 (...)
 Awesomeness of Wheezy
 =
 
 We really need some more work on http://wiki.debian.org/NewInWheezy,
 please help contribute! Let's tell everyone why Wheezy will be the best
 release ever.

What? Does this mean this is our high point? That from now on we will
just go downhill?

/me is severely disappointed.


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Re: [Debconf-team] Tomorrow's f2f meeting: 25th April 1900 localtime

[Gunnar Wolf]

Christian PERRIER dijo [Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 07:12:40AM +0200]:
  As announced previously, the swiss DebConf team members will hold a face-to-
  face meeting in Bern.
 
 25th April 1900 localtime
 
 is wearing a melon hat and a tuxedo a requirement to fit the Bell
 Époque style?

Is the Bell Époque something related to the days before the ATT
breakup (in the USA)?

 (OK, /me runs out)

Yeah, that starts to sound like an addiction to me...


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Re: x32 “half” arrived… now what?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Chow Loong Jin dijo [Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 08:40:11AM +0800]:
It was the case in old versions of gnulib, but appears to be no more.
Too bad, quite a few packages ship embedded copies of ancient gnulib.
I just submitted a patch in one such case (#711412), it might possibly
apply elsewhere.

It was Linus' decree that no new ABI is allowed to suffer from the Y2k38
bug even if its word size is 32 bit, and I'd say he's right.  This means
that this problem will bite us the next time another 32 bit arch comes,
so there's no excuse to use this as an argument against x32.
   
   Would a better solution not have been to make long 64 bits? This is a
   perfectly reasonable thing to do on a 32 bit arch, it would avoid the 
   above
   problem and since the widespread adoption of 64 bit systems most of the
   cases of software expecting long to be 32 bits should have been fixed.
  
  sizeof(long) != sizeof(void *) will break *lots* of code.
 
 Odd, you'd have thought that people would have learnt from their mistakes 
 after
 fixing their sizeof(int) == sizeof(void*) assumptions.
 
   faith_in_humanity--;

I hope faith_in_humanity is not declared as unsigned, as you might
have there an integer overflow (actually, underflow) waiting to happen.


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Re: Proposed amendment (was: Re: GR: Selecting the default init system for Debian)

[Gunnar Wolf]

Holger Levsen dijo [Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 05:31:50PM +0100]:
 Well, my option this is hard, my brain hurts, lets go shopping was a joke 
 and essentially the same as the above. If you cannot wrap your mind around a 
 problem, please dont declare defeat for the whole project or propose silly 
 solutions. Just because the problem is too hard for some, doesnt mean there 
 aint sensible solutions. Rolling a dice aint one of them.
 
 cheers,
   Holger
 
 P.S.: Also, btw  unrelated: reasonable dices have 20 sides. Or 4 or 12.

I thought you were more seasoned in reading logic statements.

From Wouter's original proposal, it's clear to me that, given a
12-side dice, we have a 50% chance of sticking with sysvrc. With a
20-face dice, the odds are 3.5:1 in favor of sysv.

Of course, were the Secretary to choose a four-sided dice, OpenRC
proponents might be unhappy. But that's life when entrusted to
random. 


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Re: init system discussion - the highlights (was: Bug#727708: init system gr override - formal resolution proposal)

[Gunnar Wolf]

Nikolaus Rath dijo [Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 06:52:45PM -0800]:
 (... long list of facts and communication [and nervous?] breakdowns ...)

 (F'up2 debian-curiosa)

This is the first time I feel an off-topic message has reached
-curiosa. :-|


/me, sick of the perpetual argument...


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Re: Tired of my fellow SysV supporters

[Gunnar Wolf]

Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) dijo [Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:04:35PM +0200]:
  I do not know how many of them are trolls, but the content I had to read
  on this mailing list in the last days is clearly intolerable.
  
  systemd, be it as one init system or as the only init system, will not
  make me leave Debian, but what I had to learn about parts of the
  community could easily do so.
  
  Please, whoever cares about that, do not hesitate to remove those people
  from the project!
 
 *hugs* and +1
 
 Perhaps the list admins can block the topic and create a new list for
 people who want to re-hash the same old details over and over and over
 again until they get old, fat and bald and wonder what they've done with
 their lives.

Oh, so it's the list admins I have to blame for my current condition‽
Thanks, I blamed my family, thinking it was a mix of genetics and
time!


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Re: non-free?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Paul Wise dijo [Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 07:21:07AM +0800]:
 In practice almost everyone has non-free in their sources.list due to
 most firmware being non-free. Also most developers will have non-free
 in their sources.list due to various GNU documentation being in
 non-free.

Don't know. In my case, and in all of the machines I have aided
configure, if non-free firmware is required, I just download that
package and install it, without adding non-free. As a developer, I
very often use online documentation.

 Also most users will have non-free in their sources.list due
 to things like Flash.

That, sadly, is true.

But anyway - I'm pushing this to -curiosa, as I think it is not on
topic for -vote. Ok, the original question is, but all this further
ellaboration not so.


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Re: Debian default desktop environment

[Gunnar Wolf]

Jakub Wilk dijo [Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 09:06:38PM +0200]:
 * Russ Allbery r...@debian.org, 2014-04-04, 10:28:
 We should change the default desktop environment with each release
 
 And the default init system, too!

We should just abolish the notion of default and be done with all
those senseless flames.


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Re: The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))

[Gunnar Wolf]

Yves-Alexis Perez dijo [Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 08:46:48PM +0200]:
 On lun., 2014-10-13 at 19:30 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
  Unless I'm mistaken, a change to Constitution (to include a reference to 
  where
  GRs should be posted) would need to be achieved via GR.
 
 And where should that GR be announced?

Usually such plans are timely posted at Alpha Centauri. But that's
just following vogon bureaucracy.


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Re: The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))

[Gunnar Wolf]

Neil McGovern dijo [Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 05:08:49PM +0100]:
   Good point. We can have a GR to decide where we announce GRs that decide
   where GRs are announced.
  
  
  I'd like to propose a GR to decide that.
  
  Option A. Main project discussion mailing list.
  Option B. Further discussion.
  
 
 I'm proposing an amendment:
   Option C. No further discussion.

Seconded.


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Re: GR proposal: jessie+1 == zurg

[Gunnar Wolf]

Hubert Chathi dijo [Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 10:35:57AM -0500]:
 Choosing code names based on animated characters is the sign of an
 amateur project.  I order to be taken seriously, we must choose a name
 that reflects professionalism.  I therefore propose the following:
 
 ---
 
 The Debian Project decides that the codename for Debian 9 shall be
 Debian X.
 
 ---

Several years ago, I bought a pair of Apple computers. And I think
their operating system is very aptly named: Since they one, MacOS X
was the ex-OS of my Mac.


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Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling

[Gunnar Wolf]

Neil McGovern dijo [Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 06:31:35PM +]:
  I have a half-written series to make it cope with lettered, rather
  than numbered, options.  Would it be worth my while finishing that off
  (in my CFT) ?
  
 
 I think that would probably be helpful, yes! Not only in the case where
 we get more than 9 options on the ballot, but I also think it would help
 clarify some of the voting options when you're ranking options.

If we get a GR with more than 9 options, we need to change the
*process*, not Devotee.


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Re: cdimage?? What should we call it?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer dijo [Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 10:40:32PM 
-0300]:
 On Wednesday 19 August 2015 09:45:36 Paul Wise wrote:
  On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:08 AM, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
   Looking at the various proposals, those caught my attention:
- get.debian.org
- download.debian.org
- install.debian.org
- installer.debian.org
  
  I kind-of like the idea of pointing all of these to the relevant service.
 
 And having get.debian.org as canonical maybe? But indeed I like the idea.

Wouldn't that rather be get.ubuntu.com?

Re: cdimage?? What should we call it?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Jakub Wilk dijo [Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 08:49:35PM +0200]:
 * Justin B Rye justin.byam@gmail.com, 2015-08-18, 19:42:
  - get.debian.org
 Too slangy and ambiguous.  Make it obtain.debian.org...
 
 Or perhaps acquire.debian.org.

We are a community, not a company. We are immune to acquisitions.

Re: I/O issues with writing to mtdblock devices on kirkwood

[Gunnar Wolf]

Iain McFarlane dijo [Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:31:45PM +0100]:
> On 21/10/15 22:28, JM wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Iain McFarlane  wrote:
> >> On a different note anyone know why udev would not be running modprobe?
> >> Every time I reboot this box I have to the reload any of the modules not
> >> specified in the initrd even things like mvmdio to get the network working.
> >>
> > If you see something like ' kmod_search_moddep() could not open moddep
> > file' in your logs, you need to run depmod -a manually.
> >
> > I've had it happen once for not entirely clear reasons, but probably
> > related to the interrupted kernel package installation.
> >
> > HTH,
> > Jan
> >
> > PS Now we have Ian, Iain and Jan posting in this thread.
> >
> I tried that but no luck - any other ideas?

Maybe we should try getting Juan, Ann, Jane or Yann involved?

Re: Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy

[Gunnar Wolf]

Wouter Verhelst dijo [Fri, Feb 05, 2016 at 06:45:49PM +0100]:
> [M-F-T set, as this is getting increasingly off-topic]
> 
> On Fri, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:16:55AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> > I mean, who needs a desktop? A background? Overlapping windows? We the
> > *real* tech-savvy people only need a tiling window manager, such as
> > i3:
> 
> Nah. Awesomewm is much better! ;-)

Lua for configuration is overrated. It's not for techies, it's for
masochists. A techie knows when to let go ;-)

(hell, should I have refrained from this last reply?)

Re: qbzr: autopkgtest fails since 2015-01-01

[Gunnar Wolf]

Dmitry Shachnev dijo [Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 04:08:19PM +0300]:
> > qbzr autopkgtest fails on both ci.debian.net [1] and jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com 
> > [2]
> > since recently.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > On both servers, it is clear that the test succeeded in 2014, but started
> > failing in 2015 (maybe due to some dependency package update).
> 
> According to https://ci.debian.net/packages/q/qbzr/unstable/amd64/, the tests
> fail on months containing J, that is Januarys, Junes and Julys.
> 
> And it's because the code searches for "j" here:
> 
>   File 
> "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins/qbzr/lib/tests/test_guidebar.py",
>  line 225, in test_find
> self.assert_find("j", panels[0].bar, panels[0].edit, 1)

So we could try a partial match with adding 'LANG=es_MX' to the
test call. That will make it work better than it does now (performing
at least ⅓ more reliably)

Re: Fwd: You wouldn't miss it . . .

[Gunnar Wolf]

Adam Borowski dijo [Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 02:16:48PM +0200]:
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:25:02AM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > The really funny thing is that these six mails with spam
> > are a reply to the thread from <20160407220148.gg13...@sdfg.com.ar>
> > “Re: wordpress 4.4.2+dfsg-1~bpo8+1 should depend on libphp-phpmailer >= 
> > 5.2.10”
> > on debian-backports… I really won’t miss if Wordpress lost the ability
> > to spam ;-)
> 
> >From my /etc/spamassassin/local.cf:
> 
> header X_PHPX-Mailer =~ /^PHP/
> score X_PHP 1.3
> 
> Non-spam sent using PHP is pretty rare...

Hey, your mail looks actually useful. That is clearly off-topic for
this list.

Re: Package naming rant

[Gunnar Wolf]

Thomas Goirand dijo [Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 06:46:47PM +0200]:
> In the general case, I'd agree. But we're not talking about "a package"
> here, but about a complete *suite* of a complex cloud system.
> 
> The argument is that you can't use OpenStack without at least learning
> what the components are, which makes it pointless (and in fact very
> annoying) to prefix them with openstack-. I'd say it take at least a
> month to understand all the interactions.
> 
> Now that there's the suite::openstack on all of these packages, it will
> be a lot easier to search anyway. Also, I take a great care about the
> short descriptions.

Supporting what I understand from Ian's, Aigars' and Enrico's points,
we have many aeas where the area of application for a package is
encoded in the package name itself. We have (according to "apt-cache
search") 1011 packages starting with "ruby-", 3566 conforming with
"lib.*-perl", 3173 starting with "python-", and even for newcomers,
451 starting with "golang-". And some of them do have quite deep names
(which have been argued against repeatedly for different reasons),
such as (five longest for each):


ruby-rails-assets-jeresig-jquery.hotkeys
ruby-rails-assets-jquery-fullscreen-plugin
ruby-rails-assets-jakobmattsson-jquery-elastic
ruby-rails-assets-markdown-it-diaspora-mention
ruby-rails-assets-markdown-it--markdown-it-for-inline

libbusiness-onlinepayment-transactioncentral-perl
libcatalyst-action-serialize-data-serializer-perl
libplack-middleware-fixmissingbodyinredirect-perl
libcatalyst-authentication-credential-authen-simple-perl
libcatalyst-plugin-authentication-credential-openid-perl

python-xstatic-jquery.bootstrap.wizard
python-sphinxcontrib.programoutput-doc
python-fedmsg-meta-fedora-infrastructure
python-zope.component-persistentregistry
python-djangorestframework-fsm-transitions

golang-github-hashicorp-go-immutable-radix-dev
golang-github-hashicorp-net-rpc-msgpackrpc-dev
golang-github-hydrogen18-stoppablelistener-dev
golang-github-cyberdelia-go-metrics-graphite-dev
golang-github-shurcool-sanitized-anchor-name-dev

Even more, querying from the 50665 my apt-cache knows about, without
discrimination of any kind, the ten longest are:

 $ apt-cache search .|cut -f 1 -d \ |perl -e '@data = sort 
{length($a)<=>length($b)} <>; print @data[-10..-1]'
 libbusiness-onlinepayment-transactioncentral-perl
 libcatalyst-action-serialize-data-serializer-perl
 libplack-middleware-fixmissingbodyinredirect-perl
 libmono-system-reactive-observable-aliases0.0-cil
 libmono-system-componentmodel-dataannotations4.0-cil
 ruby-rails-assets-markdown-it--markdown-it-for-inline
 libmono-system-windows-forms-datavisualization4.0a-cil
 libcatalyst-authentication-credential-authen-simple-perl
 libcatalyst-plugin-authentication-credential-openid-perl
 libmono-system-runtime-serialization-formatters-soap4.0-cil

So, in all fairness, looking at the longest-named packages mentioning
Openstack:

 $ apt-cache search openstack|cut -f 1 -d \ |perl -e '@data = sort 
{length($a)<=>length($b)} <>; print @data[-5..-1]'
 python-sphinxcontrib-docbookrestapi
 python-sphinxcontrib.docbookrestapi
 golang-github-rackspace-gophercloud-dev
 fusiondirectory-plugin-openstack-compute
 fusiondirectory-plugin-openstack-compute-schema

Adding 'openstack-' somewhere in their package name won't hurt users
too much.

Mr. Palfrader, would you please get out of that tube?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Yes, this appeared in Slashdot, not in Debian. But still, it's
perfectly good d-curiosa material:

 
https://science.slashdot.org/story/16/04/29/1858256/weasel-apparently-shuts-down-worlds-most-powerful-particle-collider
 
 Weasel Apparently Shuts Down World's Most Powerful Particle Collider 

 A small mammal has sabotaged the world's most powerful scientific
 instrument. The Large Hadron Collider, a 17-mile superconducting
 machine designed to smash protons together at close to the speed
 of light, went offline overnight. Engineers investigating the
 mishap found the charred remains of a furry creature near a
 gnawed-through power cable. "We had electrical problems, and we
 are pretty sure this was caused by a small animal," says Arnaud
 Marsollier, head of press for CERN, the organization that runs
 the $7 billion particle collider in Switzerland. Although they
 had not conducted a thorough analysis of the remains, Marsollier
 says they believe the creature was "a weasel, probably." The
 shutdown comes as the LHC was preparing to collect new data on
 the Higgs Boson, a fundamental particle it discovered in
 2012. The Higgs is believed to endow other particles with mass,
 and it is considered to be a cornerstone of the modern theory of
 particle physics.

 CERN says the creature may have been a marten.

Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Gunnar Wolf]

Nikolaus Rath dijo [Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 04:41:15PM -0700]:
> On Jul 22 2016, martin f krafft  wrote:
> > also sprach Lionel Elie Mamane  [2016-07-22 12:14 +0200]:
> >> Since Debian is an international project, with many (I expect a
> >> majority but am too lazy to check) of non-native English speakers,
> >> maybe taking a more unwieldy, but more clear route, would be better:
> >> Chairperson?
> >
> > Seriously… are we going to debate this now? Let's just vote and be
> > done with it. Please. With a cherry.
> >
> > Btw, we've had DebConf Chairs too and nobody complained.
> 
> Well, that probably just means that they were pretty comfortable, so no
> one had reason to complain.

The position of a Chair is not comfortable at all, and that's probably
the main reason for five of us hastily resigning (and only one in a
properly orchestrated way).

Still, it's better to be a Chair than to be a part of the Standing
Committee. But, come to think of it, I was at least once in both
roles. Yes, our committee is not formally defined as standing, but
lacking chairs, it's implicit.

Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Gunnar Wolf]

Wouter Verhelst dijo [Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:15:57AM +0200]:
> Hi Marga,
> 
> I second this amendment, although it introduces a minor awkwardness:
> 
> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 03:27:56PM +0200, Margarita Manterola wrote:
> > -  The Technical Committee and/or its Chairman;
> > +  The Technical Committee and/or its Chair;
> 
> A "Chairman" is a person. A "Chair" may be an object.
> 
> I don't think anyone will misinterpret your proposed new wording into
> thinking the TC has a physical chair that someone sits on, but the
> s/Chairmain/Chair/ you apply does to me seem to introduce some
> grammatical ambiguity that could make the text of the constitution less
> clear than it might be.

Given the technical advances we see every day, this would allow a
future Technical Committee to appoint an AI agent, which could be
enclosed in an IoT-enabled chair (think of a system in the fashion of
the classic Cray X-MP¹) — Of course, given it runs on a completely
DFSG-free stack.

This change will allow the Technical Committee to do the best once
such free AI reaches the needed maturity level, without needing a new
constitutional amendment.

I, for one, welcome our sitting-enabling overlords.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray_X-MP


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Re: Misc Developer News (#42)

[Gunnar Wolf]

Holger Levsen dijo [Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 05:32:36PM +]:
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:25:59AM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> > Holger Levsen dijo [Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 08:02:11AM +]:
> > > Hi & sorry for the noise. Upon re-reading when replying I realized I didnt
> > > have anything to add/ask and then failed to cancel sending…
> > > 
> > > To add some signal. I'll just say: Thanks for these developer news!
> > 
> > This would be a legitimate candidate for -curiosa! :-]
> 
> if you would have replied on list cc:ing -curiosa, I would have asked you
> on curiosa to please stop leaking of -devel! ;-D
> 
> abrazos!

Please do. No private communication should ever be disclosed.

[ Not to be ever made public! ]


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Re: braillegraph_0.1-1_amd64.changes REJECTED

[Gunnar Wolf]

Adam Borowski dijo [Wed, Mar 08, 2017 at 10:20:15PM +0100]:
> (...) And as for non-copyleft licenses, there's way too many of them
> to rationally choose.
> 
> Alas, I have a problem:
> * I can't seem to find a single die
> * I have no ChaosKey or similar true random generator
> * my CPU has no rdrand so I can't even let Intel rig my choice

Here you have a notarized-legal, perefectly randomly produced number
"Four". Use it as will.


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Improvised Online Visibility Techniques: Gwolf.Org

[Gunnar Wolf]

Harry Snyder dijo [Sun, Mar 05, 2017 at 10:12:53PM -0500]:
> Hello Gwolf Team,
> 
> Hope you are doing good these days.
> 
> This year, stay away from errors that kept you far away from driving
> towards the front pages of internet searches. Make your website solid
> enough so that it can help you lead your organization among the
> competitors!
> (...)

Strange as it might seem, the mail I'm refering to (sent to
debian-vote@l.d.o) does *NOT* constitute a postulation for DPL.

Re: [Debconf-video] Feedback

[Gunnar Wolf]

Gunnar Wolf dijo [Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:44:10AM -0500]:
> Kyle Robbertze dijo [Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 01:02:15PM +0200]:
> > > (...)
> > > So the pattern seems to be that the sound was bad in the big Buzz
> > > room. 
> > The problem was, in Buzz, we did not have control of the sound... The
> > venue provided a tech to run the sound in there.
> 
> Lesson learned: Attempting to provide professional-level sound in a
> room named "Buzz" can lead to... Issues.

...I'm happy nevertheless that the other rooms were not Squeeze and
Wheezy.

Re: [Debconf-video] Feedback

[Gunnar Wolf]

Kyle Robbertze dijo [Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 01:02:15PM +0200]:
> > (...)
> > So the pattern seems to be that the sound was bad in the big Buzz
> > room. 
> The problem was, in Buzz, we did not have control of the sound... The
> venue provided a tech to run the sound in there.

Lesson learned: Attempting to provide professional-level sound in a
room named "Buzz" can lead to... Issues.

Re: Announce: docker-buildpackage

[Gunnar Wolf]

Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult dijo [Tue, May 01, 2018 at 03:23:31PM +0200]:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I've written a tool for isolated deb builds in docker containers.
> It's a little bit like pbuilder, but using docker for isolation.
> 
> https://github.com/metux/docker-buildpackage
> 
> Everything written in shellscript, simple config as sh includes.
> Not debianized yet, as it might require some local customizations.
> (planned for future releases)
> 
> I'm also hacking on another tool which automatically clones repos
> and calls dck-buildpackage for building whole pipelines - but that's
> still experimental and hackish:
> 
> https://github.com/metux/deb-pkg

..I sometimes think the XKCD author reads debian-devel. And keeps up
to date with it.

https://xkcd.com/1988/

Re: help needed: LSM acronym

[Gunnar Wolf]

Adam Borowski dijo [Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 09:42:31PM +0100]:
> Hi!
> I'd like to ask for help with devising an acronym, as my ability with puns
> or other wordplay in any language is almost non-existant.
> 
> Background: I'm working on a kernel facility to set a policy for filenames,
> for security reasons.  The recommended defaults are banning '\n' and 01..31,
> the user can also elect to ban invalid Unicode, initial and final spaces,
> initial '-', etc.  The initial hard-coded patch was NACKed, and I was told
> to re-do this as a LSM.
> 
> A LSM needs a name, and the tradition is to use bad acronyms, of which "Yet
> Another Meaningless Acronym" takes the cake.

A plus point for YAMA is that, in Spanish, we say "¿cómo se llama?"
meaning "how is it called?" ("y" and "ll" are mostly homophone in this
spot).

Re: Bug#894551: ITP: fascism -- Exhaustive exploration of Fascist theory and practice

[Gunnar Wolf]

Ben Finney dijo [Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 08:52:12AM +1000]:
> Enrico Zini  writes:
> 
> > * Package name: fascism
> >   Version : 19190323
> 
> Should we be carrying such an old version in Debian? There are much more
> modern versions available in 2018.
> 
> Though I do acknowledge the large number of forks since 1919, that makes
> it difficult to select a representative version today.

...At least, coherent with Debian policy, different versions are not
co-installable (as are libraries in Npm, Pypy, Ruby Gems, PHP
Composer, etc.)

Legit-looking spam

[Gunnar Wolf]

I hope nobody minds me forwarding spam sent to the private mailing
list over here. Of course, I'm obscuring basically everything that
could be of use to a spammer.

And yes, it took me a couple of reads to make sure this was not
something we (keyring-maint) should be looking into.

Now I have a hot, steaming cup of coffee next to me.

- Forwarded message from spammy  -

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 13:42:18 -0700
From: niki 
To: Debian-private 
Subject: Re:keyring inquiry list
Reply-To: spa...@spammeharder.com.cn
List-Id: 
Message-ID: 
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 Re:keyring inquiry list

Dear Debian-private,

Good day, this Spammy from Spammety company, our company is a professional 
keychain
company with 10years's experience. So we want to avail ourselves of
opportunity establishing business relation with you.

We have a lot of  newest design of keyring, I think it will be hot sell in
your market. No MOQ, Lower price.

Feel free to let me know if  you have any inquiry of BBQ products.

By the way, f-r-e-e sample are available.

Thank you in advance!

Best regards
Spammity Spam
Company name: Guangzhou Spam  Manufacturing Company
Add: Spam Industrial Zone, Spammy Town, Spimspam
City,Guangzhou,Guangdong,China

- End forwarded message -

-- 

Re: Legit-looking spam

[Gunnar Wolf]

Dimitri John Ledkov dijo [Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 01:19:25AM +0300]:
> OMG we need to make Debian keyrings! With like gpg fingerprint of the
> release key.

I see this getting fractal. Can somebody plz Mandelbrotize the Debian
logo for me? Hmmm... Might even be akin to the deprecated "Official"
logo with some tweaks? :-Þ

Re: Waiting for the voting vote to finish... :-)

[Gunnar Wolf]

Jonathan Carter dijo [Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 06:43:27PM +0200]:
> Ah, I also had one, but can wait my turn. I considered starting a thread in
> -project in the meantime, but I'm slightly concerned of information overload
> between a large discussion on -project and a running vote.
> 
> Not to complicate things further, but perhaps some additional co-ordination
> of upcoming votes might help (assuming that's even possible)?

We could also try a new voting style: A multi-dimensional ballot of
strictly-orthogonal choices! That would be a fun set of results to
detangle...

 

Re: Please avoid using ambiguous language

[Gunnar Wolf]

Samuel Henrique dijo [Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 03:05:09PM +]:
> On Wed 23 Mar 2022, 14:55 Paul Tagliamonte,  wrote:
> 
> > According to nm.d.o, we have 1.022 kilomembers (kDd).
> >
> 
> So we're only 2 DD's away from 1 kibimember (KiDd)?

Well, AFAICT, KiBi has been a member for over 15 years, so...

Re: bits from the release team: are you ready to skate yet?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Christoph Biedl dijo [Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 03:42:40PM +0200]:
> > The release team has decided that the release after bookworm and
> > trixie will be called forky.
> 
> Noo. Debian release names *must* begin with the letter "b".
> It's the law.

Never before has the release team given us four years notice to start
preparing our best flamewars and discussion. Yay forky! 

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