Re: Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 07:53:55AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le lundi 26 juillet 2010 à 20:19 +0200, Magnus Berg a écrit : > > And you wonder: "How to make Debian more attractive for users". :-) > > > > First thing: Average Linux user may not be very interested in spam > > hunting. > > Seco

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 17:12, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 04:56:03PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: >> With a free form field called "System specific information, please paste >> here the output of “reportbug --template ”". >> >> That could even be reasonable. > > Except many

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

OoO Lors de la soirée naissante du mardi 27 juillet 2010, vers 17:55, Roland Mas disait : > Probably easier: add a CGI-like interface to reportbug, and open a > browser on it? Since it *is* reportbug, it can continue grabbing > whatever information is relevant using its scripts. And then it'

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 06:04:42PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 04:56:03PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > > With a free form field called "System specific information, please paste > > > here the output of “reportbug --te

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 04:56:03PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > With a free form field called "System specific information, please paste > > here the output of “reportbug --template ”". > > > > That could even be reasonable. > > Except many peopl

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Josselin Mouette, 2010-07-27 08:58:01 +0200 : [...] >> Now with some additional prompts to the user to get subject and body, >> I don't see how a web app that can get this same information as >> reportbug can not be developed. > > Yeah sure. With an ActiveX maybe? Probably easier: add a CGI-lik

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 04:56:03PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > With a free form field called "System specific information, please paste > here the output of “reportbug --template ”". > > That could even be reasonable. Except many people won't bother doing that. Currently, the barrier to subm

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le lundi 26 juillet 2010 à 14:57 -0400, Andres Mejia a écrit : > > Here's a template reportbug prints out for iceweasel. > [snip] > > Versions of packages iceweasel depends on: > > ii debianutils 3.4Miscellaneous utilities >

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Yves-Alexis Perez writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): > On 27/07/2010 12:59, Ian Jackson wrote: > > In context this could be read as an invitation to write the code to > > allo

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: > Isn't that what #590269 is about? No, that seems to be more about a SOAP (over HTTP) transport for reportbug/bts to file and manipulate bugs. Ian is probably talking about a Web 2.0 site with social bookmarking, tag clouds, AJAX, micro

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On 27/07/2010 12:59, Ian Jackson wrote: > Fernando Lemos writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, > was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): >> This is free software. If you want to get your idea implemented, >> either fil

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Fernando Lemos writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): > This is free software. If you want to get your idea implemented, > either file a bug report and patiently wait (and leave debian-d

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On 2010-07-27, Jesús M. Navarro wrote: > Now: I'm not a DD nor I want to commit time to become one, while I may have > time from time to time. What's the way I can help? Since parent poster was > worried about more bugs meaning more time to triage, how can I help triaging > bugs? contact the

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On 27/07/10 at 11:13 +0200, Jesús M. Navarro wrote: > Hi, Fernando: > > On Tuesday 27 July 2010 04:00:11 Fernando Lemos wrote: > > 2010/7/26 Jesús M. Navarro : > > [...] > > > How many BTS reports have you closed? > > > > I don't mean to sound offensive here, but this thread is fruitless. > > Al

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi, Fernando: On Tuesday 27 July 2010 04:00:11 Fernando Lemos wrote: > 2010/7/26 Jesús M. Navarro : [...] > How many BTS reports have you closed? > > I don't mean to sound offensive here, but this thread is fruitless. > All I see is people talking and talking over something they have no > say in

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le lundi 26 juillet 2010 à 14:57 -0400, Andres Mejia a écrit : > Here's a template reportbug prints out for iceweasel. [snip] > Versions of packages iceweasel depends on: > ii debianutils 3.4Miscellaneous utilities specific > t > ii fontconfig2.8.0-2

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi, On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Michael Gilbert wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:49:00 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: > > Simply, we do not need to, and should not, make reporting bugs easier. > > As a point of reference, Ubuntu disabled their easy-to-find http bug > submission page because of this very probl

Re: Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le lundi 26 juillet 2010 à 20:19 +0200, Magnus Berg a écrit : > And you wonder: "How to make Debian more attractive for users". :-) > > First thing: Average Linux user may not be very interested in spam > hunting. > Second thing: If you intend to be attractive for the average Linux > user - Ubuntu

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le 26/07/2010 10:26, Arief M Utama a écrit : Olivier, If you need any help, I'd like to help creating the web-interface. I have some years of experience in php. All the best. -arief Thanks but it's Perl only :( Ahh.. :-( No possibilities to implement the interface in php while leavin

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On 26 July 2010 21:49, Ian Jackson wrote: > Brian May writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: > The number  of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): >> I would really like to see a HTML/HTTP browser based interface for the >> BTS. I w

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

2010/7/26 Jesús M. Navarro : > Hi, Ian: > > On Monday 26 July 2010 13:49:00 Ian Jackson wrote: >> Brian May writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: > Re: The number  of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): >> > I would really

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

6, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Marc Haber wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:32:49 -0400, Will wrote: >>Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. >>Many new users find it difficult or unnecessary to set up an MTA when >>they first install, so allowing to use some kind of HTTP interfac

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi Marc: On Monday 26 July 2010 17:54:29 Marc Haber wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:32:49 -0400, Will wrote: > >Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. > >Many new users find it difficult or unnecessary to set up an MTA when > >they first install, so allowing to use som

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi, Ian: On Monday 26 July 2010 13:49:00 Ian Jackson wrote: > Brian May writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): > > I would really like to see a HTML/HTTP browser based interface for the &g

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Magnus Berg writes: > And you wonder: "How to make Debian more attractive for users". :-) > First thing: Average Linux user may not be very interested in spam > hunting. Second thing: If you intend to be attractive for the average > Linux user - Ubuntu users for instance - keep in mind that mos

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Magnus Berg wrote: > > Magnus Berg wrote: > > > I think that sucks and I don't help you with sending any bug reports > > > because of that. > > > > See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=63995 > > And you wonder: "How to make Debian more attractive for users". :-)

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Monday 26 July 2010 11:54:29 Marc Haber wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:32:49 -0400, Will wrote: > >Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. > >Many new users find it difficult or unnecessary to set up an MTA when > >they first install, so allowing to use some kind of

Re: Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

> Magnus Berg wrote: > > I think that sucks and I don't help you with sending any bug reports > > because of that. > > See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=63995 > > > Don Armstrong And you wonder: "How to make Debian more attractive for users". :-) First thing: Average Linux user

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Am Montag, 26. Juli 2010 schrieb Teemu Likonen: > * 2010-07-26 08:13 (+0200), Raphael Hertzog wrote: > >> * 2010-07-25 12:54 (+0200), Marc Haber wrote: > >>> stable = release > >>> testing = current > >>> unstable = development Yeah, I like it, too. This is better than the suggetion, with that I

Re: Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Lu, 26 iul 10, 18:42:06, Magnus Berg wrote: > Why is it neccecary to show mail adresses in bug reports and mail list? > This help spammers, take capacity from the internet and makes people who > are friendly to contribute once to bug reports and mail list crasy. I > think that sucks and I don't

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Magnus Berg wrote: > I think that sucks and I don't help you with sending any bug reports > because of that. See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=63995 Don Armstrong -- I shall require that [a scientific system's] logical form shall be such that it can be s

Re: Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Why is it neccecary to show mail adresses in bug reports and mail list? This help spammers, take capacity from the internet and makes people who are friendly to contribute once to bug reports and mail list crasy. I think that sucks and I don't help you with sending any bug reports because of that.

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Marc Haber wrote on 07/26/2010 12:00:28 PM: > Marc Haber > 07/26/2010 12:00 PM > > To > > debian-devel@lists.debian.org > > cc > > Subject > > Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The > number of popcon.debian.org-submissions

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 05:47:53PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote: > An HTTP interface for /manipulating/ (not necessarily submitting) bugs > would be a huge timesaver for me at least. Preliminary code for that has been around for a while now: . It's even p

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Am 26.07.2010 17:21, schrieb Paul Wise: > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Bastian Venthur wrote: > >> Yep, that's correct. I wish xdg-email would work as expected but it does >> not so I have to take care of each and every quirk of a MUA if it wants >> to be used by reportbug-ng. > > Shouldn't

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 12:49:00PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: > Brian May writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: > The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): > > I would really like to see a HTML/HTTP browser based interface fo

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:32:49 -0400, Will wrote: >Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. >Many new users find it difficult or unnecessary to set up an MTA when >they first install, so allowing to use some kind of HTTP interface >would be very nice indeed. This will decr

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:13:29 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: >On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Teemu Likonen wrote: >> * 2010-07-25 12:54 (+0200), Marc Haber wrote: >> >> > stable = release >> > testing = current >> > unstable = development >> >> I like these. They describe the three distributions well and "c

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:49:00 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: > Brian May writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: > The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): > > I would really like to see a HTML/HTTP browser based interface for the

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Bastian Venthur wrote: > Yep, that's correct. I wish xdg-email would work as expected but it does > not so I have to take care of each and every quirk of a MUA if it wants > to be used by reportbug-ng. Shouldn't those quirks be moved into xdg-email? -- bye, pa

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Am 26.07.2010 11:56, schrieb Raphael Hertzog: > On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Daniel Reurich wrote: >> (It would be easier still if sensible-utils included a "mail user agent" as >> well, >> then we could just call that.) Alternatively we could ask the user what >> mua they use (provide a list out of the

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

* 2010-07-26 08:13 (+0200), Raphael Hertzog wrote: >> * 2010-07-25 12:54 (+0200), Marc Haber wrote: >>> stable = release >>> testing = current >>> unstable = development > I would not introduce "release" but just keep "stable", it describes > the distribution well. Yes, that's it: stable - curre

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Brian May writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): > I would really like to see a HTML/HTTP browser based interface for the > BTS. I would have several advantages: I would strongly resist any

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Daniel Reurich wrote: > > > 2) store output in a file, read it, then copy/paste on my MUA : you call > > > that user friendly ? ;) > > > > No, but it's a viable solution (and I heard several people are already > > doing similar stuff). > > you could improve this and have it c

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le 26/07/2010 10:26, Arief M Utama a écrit : On 26/07/2010 06:08, Olivier Bonvalet wrote: PS: I don't know how much of this still belongs to d-devel (honestly, very few of the discussions about reportbug arisen from this thread does) and so you might probably want to move the conversation to re

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On 26/07/2010 06:08, Olivier Bonvalet wrote: PS: I don't know how much of this still belongs to d-devel (honestly, very few of the discussions about reportbug arisen from this thread does) and so you might probably want to move the conversation to reportbug-ma...@lists.alioth.debian.org . I ag

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Teemu Likonen wrote: > * 2010-07-25 12:54 (+0200), Marc Haber wrote: > > > stable = release > > testing = current > > unstable = development > > I like these. They describe the three distributions well and "current" > might encourage more users than "testing". Advertising "co

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

> > 2) store output in a file, read it, then copy/paste on my MUA : you call > > that user friendly ? ;) > > No, but it's a viable solution (and I heard several people are already > doing similar stuff). you could improve this and have it call sensible-browser mailto:u...@example.com?subject=bug\

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On 26 July 2010 03:32, Will wrote: > Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. > Many new users find it difficult or unnecessary to set up an MTA when > they first install, so allowing to use some kind of HTTP interface > would be very nice indeed. I would really like to

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le 26/07/2010 01:01, Sandro Tosi a écrit : Hi, On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 00:49, Olivier Bonvalet wrote: then set the right permission on the config file and use smtppasswd (man reportbug.conf for more info). You can also save the output from reportbug on a file and send the report from anoth

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi, On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 00:49, Olivier Bonvalet wrote: >> then set the right permission on the config file and use smtppasswd >> (man reportbug.conf for more info). You can also save the output from >> reportbug on a file and send the report from another machine. >> > > 1) store smtppasswd in

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le 26/07/2010 00:36, Sandro Tosi a écrit : Hi, On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 00:12, Olivier Bonvalet wrote: Le 26/07/2010 00:07, Sandro Tosi a écrit : Hello, On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:32, Willwrote: Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea.

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

hi, On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 00:22, Will wrote: > 5, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Sandro Tosi wrote: >> Hello, >> >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:32, Will wrote: >>> Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. >> >> are you (and all the others asking for this) willing to help developing

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

5, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Sandro Tosi wrote: > Hello, > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:32, Will wrote: >> Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. > > are you (and all the others asking for this) willing to help developing one? > >> Many new users find it difficult or unnecessar

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi, On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 00:12, Olivier Bonvalet wrote: > Le 26/07/2010 00:07, Sandro Tosi a écrit : >> >> Hello, >> >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:32, Will  wrote: >> >>> >>> Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. >>> >> >> are you (and all the others asking for thi

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:52:50AM +0200, Marc Haber wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:02:52 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum > wrote: > >On 22/07/10 at 14:22 +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > >> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > >> > > That's an interesting idea. But where is the money going to come

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le 26/07/2010 00:07, Sandro Tosi a écrit : Hello, On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:32, Will wrote: Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. are you (and all the others asking for this) willing to help developing one? As a "PHP developper", I can help if nee

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hello, On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:32, Will wrote: > Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. are you (and all the others asking for this) willing to help developing one? > Many new users find it difficult or unnecessary to set up an MTA when > they first install, Coul

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

* 2010-07-25 12:54 (+0200), Marc Haber wrote: > stable = release > testing = current > unstable = development I like these. They describe the three distributions well and "current" might encourage more users than "testing". Advertising "constantly usable" and trendy "rolling release" would surely

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

> stable = release > testing = current > unstable = development > > (kind of copied from FreeBSD). This. Additionally, an HTTP interface to reportbug would be a good idea. Many new users find it difficult or unnecessary to set up an MTA when they first install, so allowing to use some kind of HTT

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le 25/07/2010 15:19, Marc Haber a écrit : On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:09:48 +0200, Olivier Bonvalet wrote: I would like have an alternative and independent protocol (thought HTTP for example), when we can't easily use MTA/SMTP. Agreed, but HTTP is not the ultimative help. See corporate n

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:09:48 +0200, Olivier Bonvalet wrote: >I would like have an alternative and independent protocol (thought HTTP >for example), when we can't easily use MTA/SMTP. Agreed, but HTTP is not the ultimative help. See corporate networks with a non-transparent proxy which is configu

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Le 25/07/2010 11:53, Marc Haber a écrit : On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:08:28 +0200, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: For isntance the bug sytem could be made simplier for joe simpler user, What's so hard about typing reportbug? Greetings Marc It's dependent of a (good) local MTA configurat

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:46:22 +0200, "Hans-J. Ullrich" wrote: >I suggest for this, to thinlk about other names, for example > >- stable = server > >- testing = desktop > >- unstable = super_modern stable = release testing = current unstable = development (kind of copied from FreeBSD). Greetings

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 07:37:41 +0100, "Fuentes, Adolfo" wrote: >Well, then the problem I think is that people don't get to know what we all >already know: That Debian is perhaps the best distro (in general terms). As >Paul Wise commented, we need more promotion and more people creating >screensho

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Twas brillig at 11:53:28 25.07.2010 UTC+02 when mh+debian-de...@zugschlus.de did gyre and gimble: >>For isntance the bug sytem could be made simplier for joe simpler >>user, MH> What's so hard about typing reportbug? Lack of distributed global hypnoeducation which pre-fills users' minds wit

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:08:28 +0200, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: >For isntance the bug sytem could be made simplier for joe >simpler user, What's so hard about typing reportbug? Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber | "

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:02:52 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: >On 22/07/10 at 14:22 +1000, Russell Coker wrote: >> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: >> > > That's an interesting idea. But where is the money going to come from? >> > >> > This idea is likely to get so much people against it

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 01:53:22AM +0200, Jesús M. Navarro wrote: > Hi again, Russ: > On Thursday 22 July 2010 14:21:09 Russ Allbery wrote: > > "Jesús M. Navarro" writes: > [...] > > I don't agree; I think it's very hard to say the same thing about testing. > I already told you that's about per

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hello DD's and Debian Users, I have installed Debian around an year ago. Recently, I have subscribed to various mailing lists and reading them on daily basis, whether they are relevant to me or not. I am still learning about debian. Prior to the installation of Debian, I don't have any experience

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On 07/22/2010 02:46 PM, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote: > Hi all, > > and there is another point, I would like to mention. > > The naming of the repository is not well chosen, as it let new and > unexperienced people to debian feel a wrong way. The names "stable" "testing" > and "unstable" let the poe

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010, Jesús M. Navarro wrote: > On Thursday 22 July 2010 23:51:10 Don Armstrong wrote: > > Testing's primary purpose is as a staging ground for the next > > release; while it'd be nice to try to keep it working as a fully > > installable version all of the time, progress to the next

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hello, On 07/23/2010 02:03 AM, Jesús M. Navarro wrote: > On Thursday 22 July 2010 23:51:10 Don Armstrong wrote: > [...] >> Testing's primary purpose is as a staging ground for the next release; >> while it'd be nice to try to keep it working as a fully installable >> version all of the time, progre

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi, Don: On Thursday 22 July 2010 23:51:10 Don Armstrong wrote: [...] > Testing's primary purpose is as a staging ground for the next release; > while it'd be nice to try to keep it working as a fully installable > version all of the time, progress to the next release is more > important than that

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi, Neil: On Thursday 22 July 2010 20:28:49 Neil Williams wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:53:53 -0700 [..] > Removing packages from testing does not remove them from any existing > installation, so it's hard to see how the removal of packages which are > plainly not suitable for release in stable

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Hi again, Russ: On Thursday 22 July 2010 14:21:09 Russ Allbery wrote: > "Jesús M. Navarro" writes: [...] > I don't agree; I think it's very hard to say the same thing about testing. I already told you that's about perceptions and that each one has his own so I'll try this once more, after that

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:10:16PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: > I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is > not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/ > > The idea still seems reasonable to me, and the work required, beyond > what is already done, not t

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Mike Bird wrote: > We actually have a few Testing packages (e.g. WordPress) in our > mostly-Stable servers and we backup copies of those Testing packages > both on-site and off-site against the vagaries of the Testing > masters. This is why snapshot.debian.org exists. If a pac

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu July 22 2010 13:43:16 Andrei Popescu wrote: > On Jo, 22 iul 10, 12:13:41, Mike Bird wrote: > > We actually have a few Testing packages (e.g. WordPress) in our > > mostly-Stable servers and we backup copies of those Testing packages > > both on-site and off-site against the vagaries of the Te

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 04:13:15PM -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote: >On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:30:36 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: >> Yes. We have parallel versions of the netinst images that include >> firmware packages. > >That's a great start. However, Patrick is advocating images that >autodetect and

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Jo, 22 iul 10, 12:13:41, Mike Bird wrote: > > We actually have a few Testing packages (e.g. WordPress) in our > mostly-Stable servers and we backup copies of those Testing packages > both on-site and off-site against the vagaries of the Testing masters. Now you can use snapshot.debian.org ;)

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Joey Hess writes: > Russ Allbery wrote: >> I don't agree; I think it's very hard to say the same thing about testing. > I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is > not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/ > The idea still seems reasonable to me,

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:30:36 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 04:25:34PM +0200, Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote: > >Hi! > > > >Am 22.07.2010 09:21, schrieb Josselin Mouette: > > > >>> I think with our next release, we will have got less users. Why? > >>> We stripped out all bi

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Russ Allbery wrote: > I don't agree; I think it's very hard to say the same thing about testing. I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/ The idea still seems reasonable to me, and the work required, beyon

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu July 22 2010 11:28:49 Neil Williams wrote: > Removing packages from testing does not remove them from any existing > installation, so it's hard to see how the removal of packages which are > plainly not suitable for release in stable supports an assertion that > testing is somehow not intend

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:53:53 -0700 Mike Bird wrote: > On Thu July 22 2010 05:21:09 Russ Allbery wrote: > > But on testing, it's been rock-solid for me for years. It's not > > just somewhat less breakage. I think it's almost no breakage. > > Occasionally packages get stranded for a long time at

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Mike Bird writes: > On Thu July 22 2010 05:21:09 Russ Allbery wrote: >> But on testing, it's been rock-solid for me for years. It's not just >> somewhat less breakage. I think it's almost no breakage. Occasionally >> packages get stranded for a long time at back revs because of various >> migr

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu July 22 2010 05:21:09 Russ Allbery wrote: > But on testing, it's been rock-solid for me for years. It's not just > somewhat less breakage. I think it's almost no breakage. Occasionally > packages get stranded for a long time at back revs because of various > migration problems, and once o

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On 22/07/10 09:44, Jesús M. Navarro wrote: > Hi, Manoj: > > On Thursday 22 July 2010 07:17:15 Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 21 2010, Will wrote: >> > Also I imagine that it helps that they have some kind of commercial >> > support behind their projects, whereas Debian has little/none of t

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

OoO En ce début d'après-midi nuageux du jeudi 22 juillet 2010, vers 14:26, Russ Allbery disait : > In Launchpad, for anything in universe, the typical experience is that > your bug goes into a black hole until a month or two later someone sends > you some form letter about it. By form lette

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Russell Coker wrote: > The ability to have reportbug write it's output to a text file that > can be copied elsewhere is a good thing. It would be nice if > reportbug on a system with email access could then create an email > based on that file instead of requiring copy/paste (w

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Ian Jackson wrote: > 2nd, related, fallacy: Everyone has a useful contribution to make to > Debian. This is not the case. Even though not everyone may have a useful contribution, we need the contributions of people who actually can contribute usefully. Discouraging useless co

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Russ Allbery writes: > Having followed the Ubuntu bugs for many of my packages for several years > now, I think Debian's bug system is considerably more user-friendly than > Launchpad. It may not be as *pretty*, and it's not as easy to submit a > bug, but when you submit a bug to Debian, the cha

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Bastien ROUCARIES writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): > The problem is joe simple user find one package that does not work, > it seatrch on the web how to report bug, does not find, does

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

Bastien ROUCARIES writes ("Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling"): > For isntance the bug sytem could be made simplier for joe > simpler user, using an http interface than reportbug-ng [...] I thi

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Russell Coker wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Russ Allbery wrote: >> In Launchpad, for anything in universe, the typical experience is that >> your bug goes into a black hole until a month or two later someone sends >> you some form letter about it. > > That's why I

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: > Bastien ROUCARIES writes: > >> Support of debian is excellent but we are less user friendly than >> ubuntu. For isntance the bug sytem could be made simplier for joe >> simpler user, using an http interface than reportbug-ng (what should be >

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le jeudi 22 juillet 2010 à 11:08 +0200, Bastien ROUCARIES a écrit : >> Support of debian is excellent but we are less user friendly than >> ubuntu. For isntance the bug sytem could be made simplier for joe >> simpler user, using an http i

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 04:25:34PM +0200, Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote: >Hi! > >Am 22.07.2010 09:21, schrieb Josselin Mouette: > >>> I think with our next release, we will have got less users. Why? >>> We stripped out all binary only firmware images from Linux and put them >>> mostly into the no

Re: How to make Debian more attractive for users, was: Re: The number of popcon.debian.org-submissions is falling

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 04:25:34PM +0200, Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote: > Hi! > > Am 22.07.2010 09:21, schrieb Josselin Mouette: > > >> I think with our next release, we will have got less users. Why? > >> We stripped out all binary only firmware images from Linux and put them > >> mostly into

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