On 12/02/14 14:16, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Hi!
On 02/12/2014 01:04 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 02/12/2014 03:01 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Why not stop here with OpenRC and call it day?
You cannot always win in life :).
Short version:
Why don't you just call it a
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, at 11:28, Oleg wrote:
I'm using debian and i don't want to use systemd in any form (with
gnome3, etc).
So what? Should we stand in awe that you are Debian user?
I certainly care about (well most of) the users of my packages, but this
attitude makes me really angry
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 01:16:22PM +0100, Ond??ej Sur?? wrote:
So if you want to have Debian installation without systemd, then go help
him with OpenRC, help writing new openrc init scripts to replace old
rusty sysv-rc script, etc. That's the way to go forward. Just don't
expect other people
Stephan Seitz stse+deb...@fsing.rootsland.net writes:
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:39:06AM +, Darac Marjal wrote:
But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop
getting the functionality it provides, with pulseaudio you START
getting the functionality it claims to provide
For software that is incompatible with pulseaudio, prefix the command
with 'pasuspender':
$ pasuspender oss-or-alsa-only-program args...
Jeff
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On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 20:16 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 04:18:50PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:51:33PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting
better
functionality than when
❦ 12 février 2014 08:16 CET, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz :
Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting
better
functionality than when the process is running is certainly a very very
bad
bug!
As mentioned before: File a bug.
There is no
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:47:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
systemd is used as the default init system in:
- Fedora
- Arch Linux
- Mageia
- openSUSE
- SLES (upcoming)
- RHEL7
- Frugalware
- (see Wikipedia)
And what is this prove? That a small part of a distro dev team
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:37:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On the other hand, what companies and distributions and companies
actively support Upstart and OpenRC.
Is this important? Or our way is to make init such a complex, that it
can be supported only by companies? If you
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:20:55PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
$ journalctl | grep
$ journalctl | tail -n 500
grep /var/log/syslog
tail -n 500 /var/log/syslog
Hm... Is this really simplier? O, wait. I can easily copy my log to any other
machine to analyze it there with:
scp /var/log/syslog ...
There is no bug if its not installed.
Which is the case for most programs. We could close almost all our bugs
on this ground.
But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop getting the
functionality it provides, with pulseaudio you START getting the functionality
it
On 02/12/2014 11:28 AM, Oleg wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:47:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
systemd is used as the default init system in:
- Fedora
- Arch Linux
- Mageia
- openSUSE
- SLES (upcoming)
- RHEL7
- Frugalware
- (see Wikipedia)
And what is this prove?
On 02/12/2014 11:33 AM, Oleg wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:37:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On the other hand, what companies and distributions and companies
actively support Upstart and OpenRC.
Is this important?
Yes, it is. Large market share means large interest of
On 02/12/2014 11:53 AM, Oleg wrote:
Why do i need an unneeded layer for this - journalctl?
We have discussed this over and over again and there is tons
of documentation and discussions explaining the reasoning
behind that.
Please do your homework yourself and stop asking the same
questions over
Le mercredi 12 février 2014 à 12:10 +0100, Salvo Tomaselli a écrit :
But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop getting the
functionality it provides, with pulseaudio you START getting the
functionality
it claims to provide by uninstalling it.
Oh really? You get
Le 12/02/2014 12:10, Salvo Tomaselli a écrit :
There is no bug if its not installed.
Which is the case for most programs. We could close almost all our bugs
on this ground.
But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop getting the
functionality it provides, with
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:24:03PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
And what is this prove? That a small part of a distro dev team choose to
use
a systemd? Where are votes of all distro users?
Those are among the most important distributions which attract most
users and
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:10:58PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
There is no bug if its not installed.
Which is the case for most programs. We could close almost all our bugs
on this ground.
But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop getting the
functionality
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:26:39PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 02/12/2014 11:33 AM, Oleg wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:37:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On the other hand, what companies and distributions and companies
actively support Upstart and OpenRC.
On 02/12/2014 03:01 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Why not stop here with OpenRC and call it day?
You cannot always win in life :).
Short version:
Why don't you just call it a day, and let me work on what I wish? What
is your problem with me working on it???
Longer version:
Part of why
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 03:42:54PM +0400, Oleg wrote:
A small part of a distro dev team choose to use a systemd and others users are
simply forced to use it.
Kind of empty speak. In any distribution you have a small amount of
people who contribute loads of time. E.g. ctte people, etc. If they
Hi,
Oleg:
If you want to use sysvinit, don't use Debian.
Why? I want to use debian as i used before - with a classic init. I like
debian in the form as it is now. You doesn't like it. May be _you_ should
use an another system, that meet your wishes?
Since Jessie (at least) will still
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 03:57:53PM +0400, Oleg wrote:
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:26:39PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 02/12/2014 11:33 AM, Oleg wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:37:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On the other hand, what companies and
Hi,
Oleg:
A small part of a distro dev team choose to use a systemd and others users are
simply forced to use it.
(a) then you should have complained / started a GR *instead of* delegating
the question to the TC.
Are we engineers or marketers? I thought we talk about a technical side
of
On 02/12/2014 01:27 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you and the other
maintainers are working on. But I think that it's not leading
anywhere.
That's entirely your view, and it's fine if you have it. Though *we got
your point* Adrian, no need to
Hi!
On 02/12/2014 01:04 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 02/12/2014 03:01 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Why not stop here with OpenRC and call it day?
You cannot always win in life :).
Short version:
Why don't you just call it a day, and let me work on what I wish? What
is your
On 02/12/2014 01:49 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 02/12/2014 01:27 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you and the other
maintainers are working on. But I think that it's not leading
anywhere.
That's entirely your view, and it's fine if you have
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:28:49PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Please do your homework yourself and stop asking the same
questions over and over again.
Agree, I explained various things already in the same thread. There are
indications of people who indicate they don't like the
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On 02/12/2014 07:45 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Again. If these companies invest money into the development of
their embedded platforms init, we must not use it in our desktops
and servers.
So, in your opnion, everybody who works on their
On 02/12/2014 09:31 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 02/12/2014 01:49 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 02/12/2014 01:27 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you and the other
maintainers are working on. But I think that it's not leading
On 02/12/2014 03:35 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
To sum up what Adrian wrote, according to him, I'm:
- derogative
- arrogant
- utterly annoying
- hypocrite
- and finally, I wasn't honest before
Well done... ! Anything else?
Telling me to shut up and using sentences like we get it while you
Maybe time for both to agree to take this offlist or just not continue?
I don't think anyone means any harm, but arguing will just result in bad
blood IMO.
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Olav
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On 02/11/2014 12:38 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm writes:
In my case: because I want to be able to read them conveniently at
a glance, without requiring the presence of a functioning
specialized tool for doing so.
previously on this list John Paul Adrian Glaubitz contributed:
You know that you did this before and you apologized to me in private.
If you like, I can post this mail to the public list. You said the exact
same things before and I have heard other Debian Developers who think
the same way
Oh really? You get per-application mixing, dynamic output redirection,
bluetooth support, network transparency, all of that with alsa+dmix?
No, but per application mixing with no sound coming out from the speakers is
not the most useful thing.
--
Salvo Tomaselli
Io non mi sento obbligato a
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 04:57:57PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
Oh really? You get per-application mixing, dynamic output redirection,
bluetooth support, network transparency, all of that with alsa+dmix?
No, but per application mixing with no sound coming out from the speakers is
not the
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 03:54:48PM +, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
If they have decided on systemd as default [...]
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
Can we please end this thread?
Thanks!
Paul
--
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On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 09:03:54AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
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On 02/12/2014 07:45 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Again. If these companies invest money into the development of
their embedded platforms init, we must not use it in our desktops
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 01:36:14PM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
Oleg:
If you want to use sysvinit, don't use Debian.
Why? I want to use debian as i used before - with a classic init. I like
debian in the form as it is now. You doesn't like it. May be _you_ should
use an
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:39:06AM +, Darac Marjal wrote:
But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop
getting the functionality it provides, with pulseaudio you START
getting the functionality it claims to provide by uninstalling it.
Really? Uninstalling Pulseaudio
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 01:36:14PM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Snarkiness aside, IMHO it makes much more sense to have the
most-featureful init system be the default, because then those features
actually get used and tested -- and thus the situation will be more
reliable than if only those
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 04:34:17PM +0100, Stephan Seitz wrote:
Users (at least users from Debian Stable) are not beta testers.
This is assuming that either:
1) This is not going to be tested in Debian
2) systemd is not production quality
I don't think 1 is fair, seeing as how quite a few
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:14 -0500
Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
If they have decided on systemd as default [...]
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
Can we please end this thread?
Sure but perhaps you could save me the trouble to say if there is a
general
On Mi, 12 feb 14, 19:02:00, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:14 -0500
Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
If they have decided on systemd as default [...]
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
Can we please end this thread?
Sure but perhaps
On 2014-02-12, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:14 -0500
Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
Can we please end this thread?
Don't tell me it was just a vote with licensing issues being taken by
Hi,
Kevin Chadwick:
Can we please end this thread?
Sure but perhaps you could save me the trouble to say if there is a
general outline of the factors that the decision made was based upon
perhaops somewhere in the ctte mailing list archive. Or a round up
published before voting.
The
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:14 -0500
Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
If they have decided on systemd as default [...]
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
Can we please end this thread?
On 02/12/2014 11:01 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Again, are you the listmaster or DPL or what?
I thought you were smarter and would understand you went too far and
should stop. Though if the only way to stop your insults is to go to the
DPL or the listmaster, I believe I wont even have
On 02/11/2014 12:53 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
Excerpts from Thomas Goirand's message of 2014-02-10 20:20:36 -0800:
On 02/11/2014 04:10 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Do we allow users to choose their FireWire stack, WiFi or Audio Driver
stack in the kernel? There were several alternative
Excerpts from Svante Signell's message of 2014-02-10 21:49:56 -0800:
On Mon, 2014-02-10 at 20:53 -0800, Clint Byrum wrote:
So, perhaps if we teach Upstart and OpenRC to read systemd unit files,
and they all can be expected to behave similarly, this will work out.
Otherwise, giving
On 02/11/2014 03:09 AM, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
Excuse me, but this reply isn't appropriate, just as much as the OP.
Redirecting him to another Unix distribution isn't the thing to do.
Instead, you should have informed the OP that we will continue to
support not only systemd, upstart, or
Excerpts from Thomas Goirand's message of 2014-02-11 00:02:38 -0800:
On 02/11/2014 12:53 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
Excerpts from Thomas Goirand's message of 2014-02-10 20:20:36 -0800:
On 02/11/2014 04:10 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Do we allow users to choose their FireWire stack,
We have between 40 and 50 window managers in Debian. Nobody forces you
to use Gnome. How about switching to TWM!
No problem, I never actually used Gnome3, because I dislike it even more
than systemd... I only tried it several times... :)
I.e. for example, systemd-journal looks like the
On Ma, 11 feb 14, 00:31:18, Clint Byrum wrote:
Leaving most things to just use the sysvinit compatibility layer means
not realizing one of the more important benefits of the default init
system if it should in fact turn out to be systemd.
So at best you're talking about maintaining two for
On Ma, 11 feb 14, 06:49:56, Svante Signell wrote:
On Mon, 2014-02-10 at 20:53 -0800, Clint Byrum wrote:
So, perhaps if we teach Upstart and OpenRC to read systemd unit files,
and they all can be expected to behave similarly, this will work out.
Otherwise, giving everyone a choice just
Le lundi 10 février 2014 à 22:13 +0100, Holger Levsen a écrit :
And probably jessie should come with a slogan once again: Debian - there can
be more than one init system - or something like this :)
Supporting multiple init systems is the least relevant thing to do,
since it multiplies the
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 06:49:56AM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
Additionally a very good proposal for a PID 1 program was in
http://ewontfix.com/14/ Broken by design: systemd, copied here for
convenience:
I like how people copy/paste blog articles. Did you read this article?
It completely
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:09:10PM +0400, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
I.e. for example, systemd-journal looks like the most bloated part
of systemd to me, with its binary log format, QR codes and built-in
HTTP server - so maybe it could be disabled via a patch? Or even
packaged separately so you
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:51:13PM +0400, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
I think Debian project is significant enough to have some influence
on systemd development, i.e. at least send patches, and in this case
- Debian has sent patches upstream
- Mageia is *much* smaller distribution, that packager
On 02/11/2014 05:20 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
It's like being able to customize internal parts of your cars engine
when ordering one from your dealer. Customers don't care who the
manufacturer of your ignition system is as long it's the best
possible one. (Yes, I know comparisons with cars are
On 02/11/2014 09:02 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
The situation with upstart or systemd, if not chosen as default, will be
quite different, since not all packages are supporting them directly
right now. One of these 2 will suffer from the choice of default init
system.
What? That's not true. As
On 02/11/2014 09:13 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
It seems that in case of systemd it may end being forced, doesn't Gnome
3 depend on it?
We have between 40 and 50 window managers in Debian. Nobody forces you
to use Gnome. How about switching to TWM! :)
Window managers are leaf packages, at
On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 10:08 +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 06:49:56AM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
Additionally a very good proposal for a PID 1 program was in
http://ewontfix.com/14/ Broken by design: systemd, copied here for
convenience:
I like how people copy/paste
On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 10:27 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
See, I am one of the people involved in the m68k port of Debian.
Just recently, one of our main contributors decided to jump
the ship who cannot be replaced by someone else easily as
public interest in the m68k port is simply
On 02/11/2014 11:03 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 10:27 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
See, I am one of the people involved in the m68k port of Debian.
Just recently, one of our main contributors decided to jump
the ship who cannot be replaced by someone else
On 11/02/14 10:57, Svante Signell wrote:
kdbus, udev, gnome, network-manager, pulseaudio, wayland, (add to the
list here)
I fail to see what your point is here.
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- Debian has sent patches upstream
- Mageia is *much* smaller distribution, that packager has attended
*various* systemd hackfests
- Mageia package maintainer sent various patches upstream
- Patches are *not* accepted based on how many people you represent or
which company you work for (e.g.
On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 11:47 +0100, Emilio Pozuelo Monfort wrote:
On 11/02/14 10:57, Svante Signell wrote:
kdbus, udev, gnome, network-manager, pulseaudio, wayland, (add to the
list here)
I fail to see what your point is here.
systemd dependencies of course, the vendor lock-in strategy is
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:27:04AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
And this is very much what I would see in Debian. Use your desktop
and applications of choice and you will get support, but if you
want to change core components, you are free to do so, but you
will lose support.
[
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:02:13PM +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
QR codes is optional
Built-in HTTP server is optional
Binary logging - yeah, it logs stuff. Calling logging
functionality in a
program which is meant to log things is a bit much.
It's not just calling logging
Hi,
Svante Signell:
But: Don't you se the the current development is heading towards a
Windows locked-in situation, and a reboot is necessary for every
upgrade?
How so? You can upgrade systemd. (SysVinit doesn't have any features beyond
re-reading /etc/inittab you might want to upgrade _for_
Hi,
Svante Signell:
All people are replaceable, how could companies continue making products
when seniors retire and juniors replace them?
A company can tell its workers now you either do that or we won't pay you
and your family won't eat. (And even then, people you can reasonably tell
that
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:18:23PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
systemd dependencies of course, the vendor lock-in strategy is
successful: (the packages below are all from the source systemd)
[..]
Do you want more examples?
You skipped over the bit explaining:
- where the vendor lock in is?
On 02/11/2014 12:23 PM, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:27:04AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
And this is very much what I would see in Debian. Use your desktop
and applications of choice and you will get support, but if you
want to change core components, you are free
You can restart pulse. No big problem except temporary interrupt of audio,
You mean a temporary presence of audio that will immediately go away as soon
as pulse is running again right?
--
Salvo Tomaselli
Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di
senso,
Hi,
vita...@yourcmc.ru:
And it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't like it! And I'm sure
that at least 50% of swear words addressed to systemd could be
stopped at once if the journal was made ALSO optional. So why not
just do it?...
Because it's work, for no apparent gain. I mean, the
Hi,
Salvo Tomaselli:
You can restart pulse. No big problem except temporary interrupt of audio,
You mean a temporary presence of audio that will immediately go away as soon
as pulse is running again right?
Don't be daft. My audio works perfectly. So does lots of other people's.
If yours
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On 02/11/2014 04:21 AM, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:51:13PM +0400, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
This can also reduce the risk of vendor-lock, because the speed
Lennart adds features to systemd is so fast that I won't be really
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:27:04AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
It's not *my* choice, systemd is the choice of the majority of the
Linux community. OpenRC and upstart are used in Gentoo and Ubuntu
What? I see many people who don't like systemd and won't use it. I don't
see that
Because it's work, for no apparent gain. I mean, the systemd people
didn't
just code up all that journal stuff for no good reason, but because
they
perceived a need to have it. And let's face it, the ability to just see
the
stderr output from $FAILED_JOB with systemctl status is a whole damn
Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting better
functionality than when the process is running is certainly a very very bad
bug!
Don't be daft. My audio works perfectly. So does lots of other people's.
If yours doesn't, file a bug.
--
Salvo Tomaselli
Io non
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 06:06:39PM +0400, Oleg wrote:
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:27:04AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
It's not *my* choice, systemd is the choice of the majority of the
Linux community. OpenRC and upstart are used in Gentoo and Ubuntu
What? I see many people
Le mardi 11 février 2014 à 18:30 +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru a écrit :
And I don't see why a binary log format is needed to implement the
stderr capture.
It is of course well-known that systemd developers like to make their
life more complicated and love to implement binary formats instead of
On Feb 11, 2014, at 3:06 PM, Oleg lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
What? I see many people who don't like systemd and won't use it. I don't
see that systemd is the choice of the _majority_. But i see that systemd
funs simply shout louder than others.
systemd is used as the default init system
On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 15:47 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
What I don't get is why are those people trying to push Debian's
decision when they are primarily using a different platform. But I
guess it's pure politics and trying to push their own projects.
I'm pretty sure there are
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 09:05:48AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
I think this touches on - or possibly misses - a key point.
I don't think so.
I do not trust the systemd project to not do things I consider bad or
even insane, because they've already done such things, and they show no
regret or
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:51:33PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting better
functionality than when the process is running is certainly a very very bad
bug!
As mentioned before: File a bug.
--
Regards,
Olav
--
To
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 06:30:24PM +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
Install syslog. Or maybe Debian will use both journal and syslog.
And I don't see why a binary log format is needed to implement the
stderr capture.
Try to find
On 02/11/2014 04:31 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
One point of moving to a system like upstart or systemd is that the
sysvinit scripts do not run as scripts. They are little tiny declarative
files that run all or most in C. This speeds up boot, but only makes
sense if all of the early stage boot
It is of course well-known that systemd developers like to make their
life more complicated and love to implement binary formats instead of
writing simple text parsers, just for the sake of having fun
programming
them, and absolutely not because they need things like indexing.
The same goes
On 02/11/2014 07:23 PM, Olav Vitters wrote:
IMO (and I'm an interested part / GNOME dude, so no say): blocking
progress is bad. So if someone wants to add OpenRC scripts to packages
and maintenance is low: as packager you should be allowing that to
happen. As long as the time required on
Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
Install syslog. Or maybe Debian will use both journal and syslog.
I dislike the idea of binary logs so much that I want to really and
totally disable journal.
And I don't see why a binary log format is needed to implement the
Excerpts from Josselin Mouette's message of 2014-02-11 07:00:43 -0800:
Le mardi 11 février 2014 à 18:30 +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru a écrit :
And I don't see why a binary log format is needed to implement the
stderr capture.
It is of course well-known that systemd developers like to make
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 07:57:18PM +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
2) Binary index isn't needed at all if you just want to print output
of a service - you can just put output of each unit to its own log
file and just tail it.
Now show everything of a particular user. Systemd allows you to do
2014-02-11 17:03 GMT+01:00 vita...@yourcmc.ru:
[...]
And if I _really_ needed a binary index, I would put it in a separate file.
Guess what journald is doing ;-) And if the journal is not running in
persistent mode, this extra logfile only exists temporarily and
everything is forwarded to
Hi,
vita...@yourcmc.ru:
Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
Why? (Seriously.)
--
-- Matthias Urlichs
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vita...@yourcmc.ru writes:
It is of course well-known that systemd developers like to make their
life more complicated and love to implement binary formats instead of
writing simple text parsers, just for the sake of having fun
programming
them, and absolutely not because they need things
On 02/11/2014 17:03, vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
Try to find an efficient way to show the output of a particular daemon.
Now of a cgroup. Now anything of a user. It's not about capturing, it is
about doing something useful with it. You want to capture various
properties with each message.
No
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On 02/11/2014 11:26 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
vita...@yourcmc.ru:
Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
Why? (Seriously.)
In my case: because I want to be able to read them conveniently at a
glance, without
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Matthias Urlichs sm...@smurf.noris.de wrote:
Hi,
vita...@yourcmc.ru:
Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
Why? (Seriously.)
To use standard text based tools, eg. grep.
-mz
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