On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 01:25:50PM +0100, Bill Allombert wrote:
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 01:58:41AM +, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:39:44PM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 04:31:52PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
Lintian has a tag:
Tag
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:39:44PM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 04:31:52PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
Lintian has a tag:
Tag: symlink-has-too-many-up-segments
Severity: serious
+ Symbolic links must not traverse above the root directory.
This isn't
On 16 November 2014 23:28, Anthony Towns a...@erisian.com.au wrote:
Hi *,
I've drafted up a document that I think matches reality on how init
systems work in Debian. It's at:
https://github.com/ajtowns/debian-init-policy
and in (hopefully) easy-to-read pdf format at:
https
before then appreciated. Either on this list or as
issues (or pull requests!) in github would be best, I guess.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns a...@erisian.com.au
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 04:25:28PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:16:29AM +0100, Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote:
Speaking as a human being, I would suggest that Debian policy should be
that all phoning home MUST be enabled explicitly, and MUST be turned
off by default.
On Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 05:38:50PM +0100, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
We have:
required/essential -- stuff that can't be removed: libc, dpkg, etc
important -- the rest of base, stuff necessary to bootstrap and
recover a usable and useful system
I have to admit that I
On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 11:03:08PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Frankly, I suggest we look at the list of Unix commands as
specified by the SUS -- which can also be seen at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unix_programs
So -- how many of the standard unix commands as
On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 01:42:03PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Russ Allbery wrote:
I also could have sworn that we recently tightened this requirement,
but I can find no mention of that in changelog with some quick
searches. Am I just imagining things?
It was tightened
Kind of reviving an old thread, but anyway:
On Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 07:12:35PM +0100, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
I believe it to be one of the more important bits of a standard Unix
*desktop* installation - but this just reminds me of the fact that I'm
quite uncomfortable with keeping a
On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 06:31:50PM +0100, Lo?c Minier wrote:
On Thu, Dec 06, 2007, Anthony Towns wrote:
Regardless, even requiring debian/rules to be a makefile doesn't
actually do much, because someone could do something like:
.DEFAULT:
debian/irule $@
or whatever.
People
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 10:33:51PM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote:
+ Packages which use the Debian Configuration management
+ specification must allow for translation of their messages
+ by using a gettext-based system such as the one provided by
+ the
On Sat, Oct 28, 2006 at 12:58:34PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
If a csh script does not start
with /bin/csh (or name some specific csh implementation; maybe there's an
opportunity for wording improvement) or doesn't depend on c-shell, it's
broken and won't work on a Debian system. That sounds
On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 10:01:26PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
The technical committee charter and the policy process both adopt
the principle that the people making the change [..] only act in an
editorial capacity -- reviewing changes and committing them
appropriately, but not do
On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 11:27:47PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Given that there is no delegated power to change the technical
policy, I can only see that the technical policy may be changed by a
GR, or by the technical committee. 6. Technical committee
I think you're mistaken, and
On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 09:20:34AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
The only normative words are MUST, SHOULD, MAY, and
RECOMMENDED. I am considering using upper case where we expect
conformance.
Didn't the definitions of MUST/SHOULD/MAY get removed in your patch though?
Cheers,
aj
is encouraged and welcome to do so, following the guidelines in
policy-process for proposing and uploading changes.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns
Debian Project Leader
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On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 12:23:49PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
(Note: sorry about my earlier header mixup. This thread is on the
wrong list so I'm crossposting this reply to -project and -policy and
have set Reply-To to point to -policy. I will also quote more of
Stefano's message than would
dpkg doesn't check some condition, it
doesn't mean that other packages will continue working if you violate it.
Cheers,
aj
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I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
Linux.conf.au 2004 -- Because
if they've already installed the system,
with A, and hence E and F. The run dselect, or apt-get, or even dpkg, and
install B, remove A and are left with B, E and F.
If that's not what's desired, your dependencies are wrong.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
, we'll translate upstream colons to something else
than removing the support from dpkg or changing its meaning.
Cheers,
aj
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Australian DMCA (the Digital Agenda
- Forwarded message from Christopher Yeoh [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
From: Christopher Yeoh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: FHS 2.3 beta
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:30:40 +1000
To: Lsb-Discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED],
debian-lsb@lists.debian.org
X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under Emacs 21.3.2
A beta release of
,
aj
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Am I getting paid for this?''
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documentation?
Cheers,
aj
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``Is this some kind of psych test?
Am I getting paid for this?''
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includes things like transition
documents, and subproject policies, and most of the current debian-policy
document.
Cheers,
aj
--
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I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
``Is this some kind of psych test
*
definition of best practices documents.
By contrast, sarge_rc_policy is a list of requirements, and is something
to beat people over the head with.
Cheers,
aj
--
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the features instead.
Cheers,
/\_
aj -- wearing Release Manager hat
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``Is this some kind of psych test?
Am I getting paid
, --, url, NULL);
Cheers,
aj
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``Is this some kind of psych test?
Am I getting paid for this?''
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Description: PGP
autovivification (to bottow a term from perl) on chown.
Or getpwnam(), maybe? How that'd mix in with getpwent() might be
confusing.
Debian packages aren't necessarily built under fakeroot, though, so this
can't necessarily be relied on.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
? with a
default answer of (say) 5000, and add that to
/etc/reserved-uids with some sort of update-reserved-uids
tool
Cheers,
aj
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update-menus dump some pre-scaled icons into /var or /usr somewhere
for such window managers?
Cheers,
aj
--
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``Dear Anthony Towns: [...] Congratulations --
you
in patches.
Uh, no, the LSB doesn't standardise every library that is shipped by every
distribution other than Debian.
Cheers,
aj
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outweighs the drawback.
Cheers,
aj
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``Dear Anthony Towns: [...] Congratulations --
you are now certified as a Red Hat Certified Engineer!''
pgptOckMPsbDE.pgp
to work out whether you want to install a package or not:
description, what other packages you need, a file name to download,
etc. A More-Info-URL: field might make sense here in that it'd let
you find out more about the package, see screeenshots and so forth.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL
might make life a bit easier for some maintainers who
are aghast at the thought of rewriting upstream to use /etc natively.
*cough*143825*cough*
Cheers,
aj
--
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``If you
is more
complicated than for /usr, since they're much more site-specific.
For reference,
$ find /usr \! -perm -004
$
Cheers,
aj
--
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``If you don't do it now, you'll
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I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
or 755.
Cheers,
aj
--
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
will try to avoid it, dpkg won't. dpkg treats Essential: yes as
don't let me accidently --remove or --purge it, it's only convention
that lets us treat them as you don't need to specify a dependency on
these packages.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I
was to drop exim from base entirely to make the postfix and qmail
types all happy. We missed that for woody, but we ought to be able to do it
for sarge.
Cheers,
aj
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then
it has to fail to break any essential packages when you start unpacking
and installing it. Mostly that can be handled by pre-depends: (for new
libraries that essential packages need) and replaces: (for splitting
essential packages), I think.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
in the package
foo's #!/bin/sh preinst script is run, it dies horribly, dpkg aborts
Indeed, but bash version Y (X) which does not provide /bin/sh in the .deb
is, in some way, a step backwards as far as bootstrapping is concerned.
It's no big deal either way.
Cheers,
aj
--
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!
Cheers,
aj
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
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, and nothing happens).
Cheers,
aj
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I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
?
Funny that.
Why the fuck do we have to have a debate about this?
Cheers,
aj
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
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DoS'ed off the .net thanks to a handful of
untracable spoofed packets. Because, hey, personal whims, and the letter
of policy are what matters, not the needs of our userbase, right?
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't speak for anyone save myself
(which looks at the note, and recreates the symlink if
appropriate)
update-cgi --remove /usr/lib/cgi-bin/foo
(which just removes the symlink)
at appropriate places in the *rm scripts.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
through CGI scripts --
linuxconf or similar things do that, don't they? I'm not really seeing any
cases where that's a nuisance to deal with, but I don't use such things,
so maybe that's where I'm missing something?
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I
of prepackaged CGI scripts seems
like a common enough behaviour to optimise for.
Or maybe not, of course.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when
On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 11:46:59AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
These modifications to the debconf spec simply make it conform to the
reality of how some things work now. This is part of an effort to make
debconf and cdebconf better substitutes for each other.
Seconded.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony
documentation may be found in
/usr/share/doc/foo''. Better would probably be to say A package should
not require the existance of any files in /usr/share/doc to run. Which
is pretty much repeating yourself, if that matters.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au
. If they were, we'd've changed
/etc to /conf and so on years ago.
Cheers,
aj
--
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I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
pgpnIOcIYPTmV.pgp
.
Cheers,
aj
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
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On Sat, Sep 07, 2002 at 01:14:17PM +0200, Andreas Schuldei wrote:
* Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au) [020907 13:11]:
On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 06:50:03PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
As it was talked in Debconf2, we would be better off if we renamed all
*-rc.d utilities
in future, or start using
/etc/init.d/debian.org-foo. :-/
I'm not sure which of these would've been what was discussed at debconf,
but they've all been adequately fixed, as far as I'm aware.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't speak for anyone
dfsg-free/non-free is hard enough, without adding
a non-free-but-okay-for-crypto-export category too.
Cheers,
aj
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I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older
.
Cheers,
aj
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of the Subject line, for some reason.
It thinks space, : and [ all look alike, apparently, and drops it when
getting rid of Bug123456:. Been that way forever, afaict, or at least
since September '99. Might be fixed now.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 07:33:44AM -0600, Julian Gilbey wrote:
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 02:13:36AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
__Debian Standards Document__
dpkg:
* version format
* maintainer scripts are run when and under what circumstances
Both of these are irrelevant to just
On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 12:06:55AM +0900, Oohara Yuuma wrote:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:08:03 +1000,
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
Version number comparison is checked with 'dpkg --compare-versions', and
the format is checked automatically by various tools. I've never found
dichotomy with the policy/packaging-manual split
is left as an exercise to the reader...)
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do
guess I'm mostly with you on this one now.
Cool.
Cheers,
aj
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
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, and in many cases won't even make it into the archive.
Many of the BPP guidelines will be able to be checked by lintian/linda
too hopefully, at best only a few of them are worth RC bugs, though.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't speak for anyone save
.
Cheers,
aj
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''
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(eg, it will prefer Base packages to
Optional ones), or the one that they `most wanted' to select in some
sense.
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``If you don't do it now, you'll be one
(On a TM5800 with the cpu set to run at 333 to 533 mhz.)
Any chance of a rerun with posh (sources are in queue/new and readable)
or pdksh?
Cheers,
aj
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``BAM
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``BAM! Science triumphs again!''
-- http://www.angryflower.com/vegeta.gif
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to have -policy be
better and more powerful than the release manager for general democratic
and consensus principles, I'm sorry, but it simply hasn't worked, and
I'm yet to see *anyone* even remotely interested in making it work.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
yourself when filing
bugs, or explaining to new maintainers how things should be packaged, but
it's not a substitute for good sense.
Cheers,
aj
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``BAM! Science
contradicts (rather than extends) POSIX.
Do you really disagree with any of the above, in a way that you can
actually manage to justify with something beyond handwaving? Can we
possibly use this as a basis for establishing some sort of consensus on
this issue?
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony
was a typo.
Sorry, Manoj is cool and all, but he's not a walking talking consensus
all by himself.
Cheers,
aj
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``BAM! Science triumphs again
as much as any given developer.
Surely we're all here looking for the *right* way to do things, not
merely the documented way.
Cheers,
aj, getting sick of regretting anew the link between policy and
release-criticalness everytime there's any sort of thread on -policy
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL
to break my packages just because
I get in an argument with aj? to the new-maintainer PP check?
Scenario A: Anthony Towns puts kill -s KILL $pid in preinst of
netkit-inetd. Script works on all POSIX-compliant shells.
Scenario B: Anthony Towns puts kill -9 $pid in preinst of netkit-inetd.
Script
}
(and /opt/bin and whatever else) from your PATH before running
dpkg. That's not overly onerous.
Cheers,
aj
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``BAM! Science triumphs again
,
and a BSD echo (ie, with a functioning -n).
There're probably other exceptions too. Compatability with what we're
distributing, compatability with other distributions, compatability
with other free Unices are all more important than blind adherance to
the standard du jour.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 07:31:32PM +0200, Jochen Voss wrote:
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 11:53:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 01:48:21AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
Documentation good. Ad hockery bad.
That's your opinion, not mine, and not the word of God that you
priority is meant to be essential + dependencies,
but isn't quite, for reference.
Cheers,
aj
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``BAM! Science triumphs again!''
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about your packages? Why
would you expect everyone else to be?
Cheers,
aj
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``BAM! Science triumphs again!''
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/bin or vice-versa, discuss it with the maintainer and provide a
convincing argument why it shouldn't be where it is. Or don't, run off
to mummy, or -policy or the tech-ctte and whine about how no one ever
plays fair with you like you usually seem to. Whatever.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 01:48:21AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:16:12PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:17:45PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
So why waste everyone's time discussing it rather than just using sed
or /bin/sh and getting
to write the policy
manual.
I'm CCing debian-policy as a means of RFD. I invite your participation
if you have something to contribute beyond don't do that, then.
Sometimes so don't do that, then is the right answer.
Cheers,
aj
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Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:29:59AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Anthony == Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
Anthony The documentation should be found wherever the dpkg
Anthony maintainers want it, not wherever the -policy maintainers
Anthony think might be fun.
What
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:45:33AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Anthony == Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
*Sigh*. Let me see if I can dot the i's and cross the t's. A
package should be buildable using the bits mentioned in policy. Any
package may, however, choose to add
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 10:42:02AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Anthony == Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
Anthony There is _absolutely_ no call for other packaging tools, and
Anthony absolutely _no_ need for a standard to make this easy or
Yeah, right. There is never
On Mon, May 06, 2002 at 07:17:12PM +0200, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 12:12:16AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Sat, May 04, 2002 at 10:08:51AM -0400, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
I don't care about now, I care about the next release, or the release
after that.
Then how
.
Cheers,
aj
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``BAM! Science triumphs again!''
-- http://www.angryflower.com/vegeta.gif
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To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED
with the fourth paragraph of section 11.3?
Junichi and I propose the following patch:
This is way premature.
Patches are almost always a good thing, even if they're completely
unsuitable to be applied. This one doesn't seem particularly unsuitable.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED
On Mon, May 06, 2002 at 06:11:46PM +0100, Julian Gilbey wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 08:02:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
I'm concerned about this because when I tried passing over
release-critical policy issues to the policy group, it didn't work. [..]
Strawman (to quote lots of others
to it and say See, this is
not considered an RC bug!?
Bug submitters already look at another document. That document will
merely change from being the entirety of policy, to something a fair
bit shorter and a fair bit more on-point.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
On Mon, May 06, 2002 at 06:11:46PM +0100, Julian Gilbey wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 08:02:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
If the dpkg authors would like to hand off some of their design decisions
to -policy on a generalised basis, I'm sure they'd say so. It seems a bit,
well, wrong
On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 08:02:04PM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
Previously Anthony Towns wrote:
On Mon, May 06, 2002 at 07:17:12PM +0200, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
Debian development is asynchronous.
That's a nice idea in theory.
It just to be true before we had testing.
I can assure you
On Mon, May 06, 2002 at 05:19:09PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Anthony == Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
Anthony The real question is whether maintainers are meant to build
Anthony using the features of dpkg, or the ones listed in
*Sigh*. Let me see if I can dot
-project Bcc'ed only.
On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 11:17:28PM +0100, Julian Gilbey wrote:
On Fri, May 10, 2002 at 04:02:47AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Mon, May 06, 2002 at 06:19:54PM +0100, Julian Gilbey wrote:
Then each section could either have the structure:
or we could merge them
for reimplementations of dpkg, if it's
added before, it'll have to document things before they've been tried
and demonstrated to be useful.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
``BAM! Science
.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
``BAM! Science triumphs again!''
-- http://www.angryflower.com/vegeta.gif
pgpgzrtYVrGAd.pgp
Description: PGP signature
On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 05:27:30PM +0200, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 08:16:32PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 07:15:09PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
Seems to me that if bug severity is orthagonal to release criticality
People keep saying
to insisting on someone else doing things the way you want, rather than
you just hacking around the problem yourself and getting stuff done.
_Think about things_ godammit.
Cheers,
aj, who wishes he'd remember that he'd given up on transparency already
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
documents. That means
people will need to read both, but that might give them a better
understanding of how Debian is build.
ObShot: Much like, say, people used to have to read both the packaging
manual and policy...
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I
approved of changes,
and merging all the subpolicies (at least debconf, perl, and python)
is likely to be more than enough work for the forseeable future.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred
, but they are *very* strongly correlated, which is right at the
other extreme from orthogonality.
Cheers,
aj
[0] It's not even spelt right! But it's Joey, so that's okay.
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail
manpages, etc) describe how other tools work.
This is a far cry from the old muddle and multiple locations
for must do things we had in the past.
I think you overstate the problems that used to exist.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/
I don't speak
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