ort of slippery phrases and opaque verbosity of a politician
trying to distract from some sort of major scandal. I want to talk to
you, another human being, not to an LLM trained to sound like a corporate
web site.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
this is not something the Policy Editors
have any time or bandwidth to deal with.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ian has
dealt with a lot of versioning challenges that neither standard seems to
have addressed, such as multiple named versioning streams that nonetheless
need to maintain a total order, although our standard is also looser than
would be ideal for PyPI since we try to allow for nearly arbitrary
upstream ve
that are as universal as
possible, and that we should not be telling people they are required to
use GitHub. But this doesn't feel like the right hammer to me.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
munity or encouraging productive collaboration, because the contents of
our archive don't need to do either of those things. Lots of people use
Debian who are not members of any shared community, and this is a feature.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
uld not dare to venture an analysis without legal advice.)
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
f the sender domain has SPF/DMARC records).
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
e not run into
the problem before. (In other words, I doubt this is a problem with your
local configuration.)
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
utgoing mail that is from your debian.org address through the
debian.org mail servers. See:
https://dsa.debian.org/user/mail-submit/
I don't think this is the direct answer to your original question, but I
suspect it would work around the problem.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)
ties, but if
you're concerned about them, the best way to address them right now would
be to expedite your upgrade to bullseye.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
, except more clearly, accurately, and succinctly. Anyone who
was reading my previous messages should just go read that instead.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
er projects verbatim.
Reproducing code from other projects is less transformative and looks more
like simple copying, and therefore opens GitHub to a legal argument that
their AI model is not sufficiently transformative to be fair use.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
"Roberto A. Foglietta" writes:
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 at 07:16, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> This is definitely not true in the United States; there is a Supreme
>> Court decision saying the exact opposite. The ruling in Google
>> v. Oracle said Google's commerci
t there I'm *way* out of the depth of my legal
understanding.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ional complexity.) In the
US there's a four-part balancing test for fair use, and the analysis can
be quite complicated.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
not involve enough creativity to have a separate
copyright), recipe collections (copyrightable as a compilation even though
recipes themselves are not individually copyrightable), short story
collections, and so forth.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ificant risks, including the tendency of scale effects with large
models to further consolidate power into the hands of a small number of
very wealthy organizations.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ways
stands a reasonable chance of winning.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
rivers working, and that has too many tentacles and other problems (not
to mention the lack of security support for the older software).
I now avoid buying any products from NVIDIA if I can possibly avoid it, in
large part because of this. That of course doesn't help if you already
own them, sadly.
--
as it
doesn't add pain for the legitimate user.
That might be a useful reframing of the idea: let those of us who would
like to (possibly temporarily) voluntarily restrict the scope of our
upload access have a way to do that, without implying that people who want
archive-wide upload rights need to chan
Tobias Frost writes:
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 04:09:54PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Is there some way right now for me to say "any Debian contributor with
>> upload rights should feel free to merge changes and upload this package
>> without needing to consult me at
aging repository on Salsa? And if not, would that be a
good way to start?
Most of the language-specific teams essentially already implement this for
their packages and their team members, I think.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
he load, or sometimes we put
the whole thing down and rest for a bit. We don't berate each other for
not working harder.
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/09/msg00267.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/09/msg00297.html
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
, actually.
Or maybe the problem is that you want to be able to tell people what to
do, but you don't want to have to pay them? If so, uh, good luck with
that!
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
nnoying and futile to argue with.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
-posting-styles variable):
(setq gnus-posting-styles
'(("."
(address "ea...@eyrie.org")
(name "Russ Allbery")
(organization "The Eyrie")
(signature-file "~/docs/sigs/eyrie")
(eval
that show up in my personal inbox that I don't want
there, from time to time. For example, right now I have about five
messages from order notifications for takeout from local restaurants that
are sitting in my inbox waiting for me to have five minutes to write split
rules so that they sort into mail.food instead.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ge that, whether or not the specific framing of
this thread is inspiring to a given Debian contributor, everyone wants
longer laptop battery life and lower power bills for their data centers.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ssages to the moderation queue since March 11th
and can't find any messages from Norbert, so whatever is going on there
seems to be happening upstream of moderation.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
e more details and thoughts on this on -vote over the
> next week, but I believe this is something important to pursue for the
> project regardless of who serves as DPL for the next term.
I agree.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
it's
full of other problems I haven't seen. I'm just hoping that this makes
all of my ramblings a bit more concrete and lets other people understand
the sort of model I have in my head.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ess, which I think still applies even
if it wasn't relevant in your specific case.
It sounds like you may disagree with my opinion about the process. Great!
That's part of the discussion.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ck
you. Right now, you are doing exactly what Enrico described: creating
conflict where there was none.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
work with. It can't come in the form of people willing
mailing list arguments by attrition, since then I'll never be convinced
that I really was in the minority as opposed to just being unwilling to
shout loud enough.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
lly do not like that we've backed ourselves into
a corner that involves public shaming (even if it's not intended to be
that) as part of the process.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Felix Lechner writes:
> On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 10:43 PM Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Or, let me put this another way: one of the fears that I've seen
>> expressed around warnings is that it's a permanent record sort of
>> thing, or it starts a file on someone, or otherwise cre
en to
> listening to each other.
I completely agree.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Scott Kitterman writes:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 10:13:03 PM EST Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I guess the other possibility is that people really want warnings to be
>> way more serious than any meaning I personally would ascribe to the
>> word "warning" and
I personally would ascribe to the word
"warning" and are thinking of them as formal project censure or something
akin to that. In that case, my argument is that we need a warning that's
actually just a warning, and the thing we've got is much too strong and
the real problem is that we don't have so
nstead.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
bian/copyright file from the data that I'm already maintaining
upstream.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
], and since there have been no
> large objections I would like to formalize it.
Thank you very much for working on this! I've been looking at adopting
this for all the packages for which I'm upstream, and really appreciate
other people also looking at it so that we can figure out the best
appr
://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2021/10/msg2.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2021/09/msg00010.html
and also see the discussion thread starting here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2021/10/msg00019.html
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.
wn trusted certs on the systems you
maintain. See /usr/share/doc/ca-certificates/README.Debian for more
details.
For most situations, the right answer is either to use Let's Encrypt (for
public-facing services) or to automate installing your own CA on your
systems (for private PKIs).
--
Russ Allbery
re are still a lot of ways it can go wrong that are very
inobvious.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
a discussion period. Everyone's
repeating the same things they already said, and the chances of anyone
changing their mind are slim. You can now go vote your opinion rather
than having to write more mail about it.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ing we absolutely should not ever do).
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Tobias Augspurger writes:
> 5. After the split is done, we distribute the money to the email address
> via the Coinbase API.
Are you investigating other payment options, or is LibreSelery expected to
only support Coinbase?
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.
o the tedious and time-consuming work required to get a fake identity
with voting privileges?
I'm dubious of the threat model. Injecting malicious code into the
archive seems to have a far, far higher reward to effort ratio than voting
in our rare and generally not very close project votes.
--
Ru
the bad ideas will be filtered out
before that point, so the chances are much higher, when something reaches
that level, that other people are seeing merits in something that I'm not
seeing, and it's worth the time and effort to dig into why and where the
points of disagreement really are.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
esn't concern you,
and they'll be very happy. Drowning the project in negativity right now
could prevent that sort of discovery from happening.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
eople to build new things.
A lot of strenuous objections are equally effective when phrased as
questions about capabilities and configuration options, and are much
easier and less stressful to engage with in that form.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
it's always worth being thoughtful about.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
my work email. All the important stuff is in a ticket system, on
pull requests, or in tech notes that are indexed and searchable. I
haven't missed the email at all.
I too am very proud of my email filters, but the best email filters are
the ones that prevent the email from being sent in the first p
obviously, but it made me curious to understand what I might be
missing. (My past experience is that when younger colleagues get excited
about a new way of doing things, I should pay attention, because there are
probably things that I'm missing and that I will appreciate if I look into
the
Russ Allbery writes:
> There does indeed appear to be some sort of problem (I haven't received
> the list copy of your message either), but your message was approved two
> minutes after you sent it, so I don't think it's with the moderation.
Ah, apologies, I was also confused by a
ropped after MTA accepted it.
There does indeed appear to be some sort of problem (I haven't received
the list copy of your message either), but your message was approved two
minutes after you sent it, so I don't think it's with the moderation.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Ihor Antonov writes:
> On Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:51:27 AM PDT Russ Allbery wrote:
>> The forum to which you sent this message is already moderated and has
>> been for months. I suspect you didn't even notice.
> So how then you need more moderation possibilities with
or should be a welcoming home for people who
care more about the ability to say anything they want whenever they want
in project forums than about making a free software distribution together.
And yes, these two goals do sometimes come into conflict (although we can
try to minimize how often that
d to do some
planning work up-front to identify the data we're storing in Salsa that we
may want to move to some other platform like Keycloak in the future, but I
think it's a risk we can mitigate.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
e identity
provider are certainly different components with different functions, but
that doesn't imply that they can't be combined in the same software suite.
There's quite a lot of shared code between an SP and an IdP, so in some
sense that's easier than maintaining them as entirely separate projects.
tell you what the consensus is in Germany since I'm
obviously not qualified to do so.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
he project for
opposing views such that political positions that are not *intrinsic* to
the project cause as small of an impact on project unity as possible.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
e
who was preparing a patch would read it. (I personally would never look at
debian/copyright when submitting a patch to the BTS, but would probably
read README.Debian.)
This is just one anecdotal opinion, though, so please take with a grain of
salt.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
yes, thank you for starting the discussion
of the tool. I think such a tool is extremely valuable for maintainers
regardless, and will make any workflow that involves any central review
under any circumstances much easier.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ntentional choice,
rather than assuming we're obligated to continue doing what we're doing.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
er
people for one's own personal amusement is abuse. It is destructive and
awful behavior that will hurt a community deeply if it is tolerated.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
e in making explicit choices, and standing by those
choices. I support LGBT people and do not support anti-LGBT people. If
that's in conflict with Debian's code of conduct, so be it.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
vilege.
I'm sorry, Tina. You're entirely correct, and I apologize for latching on
to that part of the conversation and not being aware of the context or
thinking at all about how that would come across.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
essarily
something that Debian would want to embrace politically. :)
Language as spoken by ordinary people on the street tends to be way more
fluid and changing and adjustable than those schoolbook grammatical rules.
(I realize that this can be kind of frustrating for people who aren't
native English speakers, because those rules can provide the structure
that they rely on to express themselves in English.)
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
with merit, etc., and other people
aren't trusting our license statements about that material.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
relitigate endless mostly-settled discussions from the past thirty years
around what source code means. The payoff needs to be correspondingly
large to be worth the effort, and I'm just not seeing it.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
nge in the
process that, unless we can reach some sort of guided consensus like we
did with dh (and I think this is more controversial and is also a much
stronger statement than we arrived at with dh), having everyone vote on it
is probably the right move.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)
Sam Hartman writes:
> I understand Russ has some thoughts that I hope he'll be sharing soon.
I'm afraid that for reasons unrelated to this discussion I'm not going to
have the time or energy to try to expand on my thoughts, and am going to
bow out of this thread.
--
Russ Allbery
and coaching would be a gracious and generous gesture
should someone choose to volunteer that to someone who sincerely accepted
it and benefited from it, but this is a *really* high bar that practically
no organization reaches, and my point in my original reply is that I don't
think this should
mediation to the duties of the
anti-harassment team would have the effect of dooming the team, and thus
significantly undermining our ability to maintain a reasonable project
response to harassment.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
hed
that anyone would disagree with are, in some foundational way, my core
political beliefs. By asking people to confine themselves to that set of
behavior, I'm not being politically neutral, even though it feels like
that to me.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
usion (that bit is important; human communications come with
context that matters), let's figure out how to make it happen.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
uld* get a lot of
support. If someone is *not* getting the support they need, that's a
problem that hopefully we can address, but thinking of it as a zero-sum
game where we can't support some people if we want to support other people
is just not at all how I look at it.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian
ical
corporation, not being much of a personal fan of capitalism, but they do
spend a fair amount of time thinking about how to navigate these sorts of
things among large numbers of humans who are forced together by something
largely unrelated to their personal backgrounds.)
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
might make sense for you to honor them inside your country, but for
> the other 95% of the population of this planet they are just people with
> the privilege of living in the US.
They are Debian project members. That's the part that matters.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)
vist.)
Pride is not the activist event that it used to be, at least in the United
States and I believe in a lot of Europe. It's become very mainstream.
(This is something that some people in the LGBTQ+ community are also
rather frustrated with, as it turns out, but nonetheless, I think that
l within the Debian context.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
t of Socratic dialogue, it
turns out that the other person already understood the first four or five
steps and going through the preliminaries was just sort of weird, and it
would have been better to just start at the end and back up only until we
find the point of disagreement.
--
Russ Al
g a
prohibitive performance price (not to mention other issues). There just
aren't any good options right now. Buy (or accept donations of) whatever
makes sense for other reasons, and expect there to be mandatory microcode
updates, kernel and virtualization workarounds, and security bugs.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Jonathan Carter writes:
> On 2019/06/01 19:55, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I very much doubt that our current donation-driven model would generate
>> US $1M per year on a sustained basis, particularly if you subtract
>> DebConf out of the mix (which I think we shoul
Adrian Bunk writes:
> On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 04:07:54PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I could well be entirely wrong, but the part that I would expect to be
>> the most controversial is that, once Debian starts spending project
>> money to pay people to do work that other
gs until they reach some agreed-upon conclusion
before adding more on.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
doing unpaid work for an organization that also
has paid staff is hugely demotivating. It's entirely plausible that
paying for resources would mean that Debian would end up with *less*
resources than we have now, if other volunteers feel the same way.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
t work that others are
currently doing for free.
I assume the above is the sort of thing that Sam is referring to when he
says that we need to have a higher-level discussion if we're going to
pursue this idea.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
definition of "member" or
"voting member" of a non-profit is spot-on for how we currently use DD.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
a lot less tricky than having to
deal with constant harassment every time you express an opinion. I'm
happy to do some of my part in supporting my friends.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
y think it's
enjoyable or funny (and I grew up on-line on Usenet; I've met a *lot* of
those people), well, surprise, people don't put up with that shit nearly
as long as they used to, and that's a *good* thing.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
g. You just raised some points about the social impact of hard
disagreements, and about how decision-making works in general in Debian,
about which I have strong opinions and really wanted to reply.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Miles Fidelman writes:
> On 1/7/19 10:06 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Speaking as someone who is a listed author on three published RFCs and
>> chaired one IETF working group, I will take Debian process over IETF
>> process any day, and find your description of the IETF p
n Debian.
I hope you have fun and enjoy that platform! I'm very glad that you will
be able to find a platform that is a better fit for you.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
se, but I strongly
suspect the percentage is lower.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
*nothing* is *ever* their fault
(although some of them can fake convincing apologies).
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
arts of who you are)
Yup. And if you don't want that effect, well, don't aggregate your blog.
It's okay to not aggregate your blog!
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
argument we're having is over when Daisy is and isn't
appropriate. I don't think changing the labels changes the core
disagreement, which is that some people want to have a far higher bar for
Daisy than other people.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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