date:20140810

 Hi.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 11:02:13 +0800
積丹尼 Dan Jacobson jida...@jidanni.org wrote:

 So how can I do it (and not zap the USB keyboard at the same time)?

This should disable your PS/2 keyboard both in the console or X:

echo -n manual  /sys/bus/serio/devices/serio0/bind_mode
echo -n serio1  /sys/bus/serio/drivers/atkbd/unbind

To revert this change, you'll need this:

echo -n atkbd  /sys/bus/serio/devices/serio0/drvctl
echo -n auto  /sys/bus/serio/devices/serio0/bind_mode

Reco


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Re: understanding Debian support on ARM architecture

 Hi.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 04:40:05 +0300
Martin T m4rtn...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 according to wiki, Debian is supported on little-endian ARM
 architecture. However, then wiki lists some sub-architectures which
 are supported. For example iop32x, ixp4xx, kirkwood and orion5x. Does
 this mean that Debian ARM port works on fairly limited number of
 sub-architectures? For example all the ARM-based embedded boards would
 probably not work with Debian ARM port?

There's a difference between x86 and ARM, and that difference is
hardware enumeration. x86 provides OS with one, ARM does not.

To boot any Linux on ARM and to work with any hardware, one does need
so called 'device tree' ([1]) compiled into the kernel.

So, to answer your question - you have 100% guarantee that booting any
of armel Debian kernel won't be successful and will end with kernel
panic in the best case for any of those ARM-based embedded boards.

Now, if you manage to build a working kernel for that specific board
and boot it - sure you can use any part of Debian with the board short
of the stock kernel(s).

[1] http://lwn.net/Articles/448502/

PS I'm happy user of kirkwood family Debian kernel :)

Reco


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Re: Mounting a FreeBSD USB Memory Stick Image rw

 Hi.

On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 20:34:35 +1000
Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net wrote:
 
 Pity we don't have a generic FUSE module to run -all- filesystems in
 userspace (as/when needed), so we could simply toggle 'experimental'
 features on easily.

Yet we do have UFS2 FUSE implementation :)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/fuse-ufs2/

Reco


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RE: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

2014-08-10 Thread Bonno Bloksma

Hi,

 On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 10:46:51 + Rodolfo Medina sent:

 snip
 
 I've always used `halt' to shutdown the machine.  Is `poweroff'
 proper to do that?
 
 Rodolfo

 poweroff doesn't work for me, but I tried it as root, next time I use it I 
 will try it as user and see if it works then. shutdown now does work as root.


Rodolfo: Yes, poweroff is now the proper way to shutdown a machine.

Wanderer: While using Wheezy starting to use poweroff is the proper way to 
migrate from halt. But I do agree, it might have been a good idea to 
communicate this in a better way. 

Charlie: According to the man pages all 3, halt, poweroff and reboot, use the 
shutdown command to perform the necessary steps when not starting in runlevel 0 
or 6, which is pretty much always. So it is really weird that in your case 
poweroff does not work but shutdown does. 

quote-
If  halt  or  reboot is called when the system is not in runlevel 0 or 6, in 
other words when it's running normally, shutdown will be invoked instead (with 
the -h or -r flag). For more info see the shutdown(8) manpage.
[...]
Under older sysvinit releases , reboot and halt should never be called 
directly. From release 2.74 on halt and reboot invoke shutdown(8) if the system 
is not in runlevel 0 or 6. This means that if halt or reboot cannot find out 
the current runlevel (for example, when /var/run/utmp hasn't been initialized 
correctly) shutdown will be called, which might not be what you want.  Use the 
-f flag if you want to do a hard halt or reboot.
quote-

Bonno Bloksma


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Re: Irony

 Hi.

On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:26:40 -0400
Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:

 Within months of my switch, oops, here comes systemd.

Consider switching to the Debian/kFreeBSD. It's the same Debian, yet
there won't be no systemd in the foreseeable future.

Reco


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Report a testing update bug?

2014-08-10 Thread Felix Natter

hi,

I've seen
  sed: -e expression #1, char 6: unknown command: `m'
when updating my testing system:

---
Setting up virtualbox-dkms (4.3.14-dfsg-1) ...
Loading new virtualbox-4.3.14 DKMS files...
Building for 3.14-1-amd64 and 3.14-2-amd64
Building initial module for 3.14-1-amd64
Done.

vboxdrv:
Running module version sanity check.
 - Original module
   - No original module exists within this kernel
 - Installation
   - Installing to /lib/modules/3.14-1-amd64/updates/dkms/

vboxnetadp.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
 - Original module
   - No original module exists within this kernel
 - Installation
   - Installing to /lib/modules/3.14-1-amd64/updates/dkms/

vboxnetflt.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
 - Original module
   - No original module exists within this kernel
 - Installation
   - Installing to /lib/modules/3.14-1-amd64/updates/dkms/

vboxpci.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
 - Original module
   - No original module exists within this kernel
 - Installation
   - Installing to /lib/modules/3.14-1-amd64/updates/dkms/

sed: -e expression #1, char 6: unknown command: `m'
/etc/modprobe.d/dkms.conf updated to replace obsoleted module references:
--- /tmp/dkms.1s8k9O/dkms.conf.new  2014-08-10 09:01:50.954467080 +0200
+++ /etc/modprobe.d/dkms.conf   2012-10-06 05:55:01.0 +0200
@@ -0,0 +1,4 @@
+# modprobe information used for DKMS modules
+#
+# This is a stub file, should be edited when needed,
+# used by default by DKMS.
depmod

DKMS: install completed.
Building initial module for 3.14-2-amd64
Done.

vboxdrv:
Running module version sanity check.
 - Original module
   - No original module exists within this kernel
 - Installation
   - Installing to /lib/modules/3.14-2-amd64/updates/dkms/

vboxnetadp.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
 - Original module
   - No original module exists within this kernel
 - Installation
   - Installing to /lib/modules/3.14-2-amd64/updates/dkms/

vboxnetflt.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
 - Original module
   - No original module exists within this kernel
 - Installation
   - Installing to /lib/modules/3.14-2-amd64/updates/dkms/

vboxpci.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
 - Original module
   - No original module exists within this kernel
 - Installation
   - Installing to /lib/modules/3.14-2-amd64/updates/dkms/

sed: -e expression #1, char 6: unknown command: `m'
depmod

DKMS: install completed.
---

-- Shall I report a bug against virtualbox-dkms?

Thanks and Best Regards,
-- 
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Re: Irony

2014-08-10 Thread Slavko

Ahoj,

Dňa Sat, 9 Aug 2014 23:49:37 +0100 Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk napísal:

 On Sat 09 Aug 2014 at 16:47:54 -0400, AW wrote:
 
  On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:26:40 -0400
  Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
  
Hi all,

Some of the reasons I switched my desktop from Ubuntu to Debian
were:

1) To do more config by editor and less by magical binary
program.

2) To get rid of gratuitous boot gunge (in this case Plymouth)

3) To get closer to the Unix Philosophy

  
  A new thread... I chase this one, knowing full well that convincing
  anyone of anything is nearly impossible. 
 
 This is the second thread on the same topic started by the OP in a
 month.
 

I consider these posts as not OT. Consider Debian social contract:

Our priorities are our users and free software 

 We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software
 community. We will place their interests first in our priorities. We
 will support the needs of our users for operation in many different
 kinds of computing environments.

Where is better place to tell, what are the Debian user's needs, as the
Debian users ML?

The Debian take care about not discriminating the women, gays and
lesbians, etc. Then, please, do not discriminate the non systemd fans.

Is here a group of users, which can appreciate the systemd? OK, they
will be supported. Is here group of users, which don't need/want the
systemd? OK too, but they need to be supported too, especially in
switching time. But now it seems, that there is support (not only
technical) for the first group only. Then it is needed to tell, what
are user's interests...

BTW: I am testing the systemd for some time. Despite some problems on
my desktop machine, in my virtual environment all works without big
problems. From these threads (which you are considering as OT) i learn
and understand what are advantages of the systemd. But i can see more
and more, that the systemd have no advantages for my small and simple
environments and the SysV (with all it's problems) fulfills my needing.

regards

-- 
Slavko
http://slavino.sk


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Re: since demise of encfs what to use for encrypting dir

2014-08-10 Thread Andrei POPESCU

On Lu, 04 aug 14, 14:58:15, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
 I'm still not sure why it isn't in testing at
 the moment,

http://tracker.debian.org/encfs and click on the question mark next to 

The package has not entered testing even though the delay is over

The rest should be self-explanatory.

 but as long as it's in both stable and unstable I'm not going to worry 
 too much.

It has to enter testing *before* the freeze in order to be part of the 
next stable release. You might want to help with it if you care about 
it.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Irony

2014-08-10 Thread Tony van der Hoff

On 09/08/14 22:26, Steve Litt wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 Some of the reasons I switched my desktop from Ubuntu to Debian were:
 
 1) To do more config by editor and less by magical binary program.
 
 2) To get rid of gratuitous boot gunge (in this case Plymouth)
 
 3) To get closer to the Unix Philosophy
 
 Within months of my switch, oops, here comes systemd.
 
 Sometimes, you just have to laugh.

Why not have another go at starting a contentious thread?

I am rapidly gaining the impression that slitt is no more than a (rather
clever) troll, and as such should not be fed.

-- 
Tony van der Hoff  | mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
Ariège, France |


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Re: Irony

2014-08-10 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Sunday 10 August 2014 08:37:24 Slavko wrote:
 I consider these posts as not OT.

No-one said that they were OT.  Merely that this list is about Debian in 
general, not only systemd, and the subject has been done to death.

If some of you don't like it, write the software you want.  Or pay someone to 
write it.  But enough already.  

The developers are volunteers to whom we should be very grateful.  Like the 
rest of us, they do what they want to do.  If it doesn't satisfy you, pay 
someone to do what you want them to do.

Lisi


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Setup a Nvidia multiseat

Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 04:32:00 +0200 schreef Hugo Vanwoerkom  
hvw59...@care2.com:




snip

Could you elaborate? You mean that if you connect, lets say a ps/2  
keyboard and an USB keyboard, 2 Nvidia video cards with 2 monitors  
attached and 2 USB mice and I run systemd, then it will figure out how  
to make a 2-seater out of this. Meaning 2 users  logged on  
simultaneously. Surely you must set up a proper xorg.conf, how much  
should it contain? Have you actually tried this or is it your conclusion  
that systemd ought to do this?


Hugo



Three steps are necessary:

1 - Create a /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/90-nvidia.conf
Unfortunately, this step is always required for a Nvidia card, only the  
MatchSeat option has to be added.

(note, I don't have a xorg.conf file)

cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/90-nvidia.conf
Section Device
Identifier Seat0
Driver nvidia
BusID  PCI:1:0:0
Option ProbeAllGpus FALSE
MatchSeat  seat0
EndSection


Section Device
Identifier Seat1
Driver nvidia
BusID  PCI:2:0:0
Option ProbeAllGpus FALSE
MatchSeat  seat1
EndSection

2 - Tag the Nvidia card for seat1 as a master-of-seat
This step is a litter harder. Since you have to figure out where your  
Nvidia card is. If your card has hdmi you can find the location by looking  
at the sound card.


$ loginctl seat-status seat0

...
  ├─/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:05.0/:02:00.1/sound/card1
  │ sound:card1 NVidia
...
The video part will be
/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:05.0/:02:00.0

Write an udev rule
cat /etc/udev/rules.d/72-seat-1.rules
SUBSYSTEM==pci,  
DEVPATH==/devices/pci:00/:00:05.0/:02:00.0, TAG+=seat,  
TAG+=master-of-seat, ENV{ID_AUTOSEAT}=1, ENV{ID_SEAT}=seat1


reboot or use 'udevadm trigger' to apply the new rule

3 - Attach a mouse, keyboard and soundcard
Use loginctl seat-status seat0 to find your devices and move them to  
seat1 with

loginctl attach seat1 your device
If you use a usb-hub for the mouse and keyboard attach the hub, so every  
device you plug into the hub will attached to seat1


You can verify your setup with
$ loginctl seat-status seat1

seat1
Sessions: *c2
 Devices:
  ├─/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:05.0/:02:00.0
  │ [MASTER] pci::02:00.0
  
├─/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:05.0/:02:00.1/sound/card1
  │ sound:card1 NVidia
		  │  
├─/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:05.0/:02:00.1/sound/card1/input14

  │ │ input:input14 HDA NVidia HDMI/DP,pcm=3
		  │  
└─/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:05.0/:02:00.1/sound/card1/input15

  │   input:input15 HDA NVidia HDMI/DP,pcm=7
  ...

Finally,
Step 1 is always necessary for a Nvidia card. I don't know if the  
nvidia-xconfig program is able to add the MatchSeat option. Don't use  
the xorg.conf file, because only seat0 will use it. So the X server on  
seat1 will give you an error No device found


Maybe the Nvidia Maintainers will help us in the future with Step 2. I  
think it is possible that all Nvidia graphic devices get the  
master-of-seat tag. I will ask them.


Step 3 is always required for a multiseat setup. Unless you have a open  
source displaylink device.


succes,

floris


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Disk space usage

2014-08-10 Thread Diogene Laerce

Hi,

I have a strange issue with wheezy 7.6.0 : the system complains
for only left 487 Mo on the ROOT level. But a :

du -shx *

on the ROOT shows :

7.3M bin
18M boot
0 dev
125M emul
12M etc
185G home
0 initrd.img
148M lib
4.0K lib64
16K lost+found
28K media
4.0K mnt
1.4G opt
du: cannot access `proc/7334/task/7334/fd/4': No such file or directory
du: cannot access `proc/7334/task/7334/fdinfo/4': No such file or directory
du: cannot access `proc/7334/fd/4': No such file or directory
du: cannot access `proc/7334/fdinfo/4': No such file or directory
0 proc
5.5M root
952K run
7.7M sbin
4.0K selinux
4.0K srv
0 sys
588K tmp
8.4G usr
7.4G var
0 vmlinuz

where /boot, /etc, /home, /opt, /tmp, /usr, /var and / are on their own
partitions.

I had a look on gparted, the ROOT (/) will show : 55,42 Go for a size
of 55,88 Go.

So please, anyone knows how can I find out where do the extra ~55 Go
come from ?

I've run a : lsof | grep deleted too and I got this :

http://hastebin.com/mubucanagi.coffee

Thank you

-- 
“One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.”
“Le vrai n'est pas plus sûr que le probable.”

  Diogene Laerce




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Re: Question about dch

On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 2:18 PM, George Shuklin george.shuk...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 08/09/2014 07:16 PM, Tom H wrote:
 On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 10:52 AM, George Shuklin
 george.shuk...@gmail.com wrote:

 dch -i tool allows to add new version to debian/changelog file.

 When I add new version I make this:

 package (1.0.2-1myname1-ubuntu0) UNRELEASED; urgency=medium

   *
   -- signature and date

 package (1.0.2-1myname1) unstable; urgency=medium

* old changes

 -- signature and date

 If version ends on 'ubuntu' it bumped properly (ubuntu1, ubuntu2, etc),
 and
 when I use my own suite, it just append 'ubuntu'.

 Where dch take sting 'ubuntu' to add to version?

 From the man page:

 --increment, -i
Increment either the final component of the Debian release
 num-
ber  or, if this is a native Debian package, the version
 number.
On Ubuntu, this will also  change  the  suffix  from
 buildX  to
ubuntu1. ...

 Means it hardcoded? Thanks.

Sorry, I was too terse earlier.

It can be overridden with --vendor.


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Re: Setup a Nvidia multiseat


Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 11:16:58 +0200 schreef Floris jkflo...@dds.nl:

Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 04:32:00 +0200 schreef Hugo Vanwoerkom  
hvw59...@care2.com:




snip

Could you elaborate? You mean that if you connect, lets say a ps/2  
keyboard and an USB keyboard, 2 Nvidia video cards with 2 monitors  
attached and 2 USB mice and I run systemd, then it will figure out how  
to make a 2-seater out of this. Meaning 2 users  logged on  
simultaneously. Surely you must set up a proper xorg.conf, how much  
should it contain? Have you actually tried this or is it your  
conclusion that systemd ought to do this?


Hugo



Three steps are necessary:

1 - Create a /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/90-nvidia.conf
2 - Tag the Nvidia card for seat1 as a master-of-seat
3 - Attach a mouse, keyboard and soundcard


forgot to say
http://code.lexarcana.com/posts/simple-multiseat-setup-on-fedora-17.html
for some more information about a multiseat setup from our Fedora friends


succes,






floris


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Re: IP Forwarding to Windows machine

Bob Proulx a écrit :
 Mike McClain wrote:
 __  
 |   Debian|  LAN|  Windows 2000 |
 Inet|Linux|-|  S40  |
 (ppp)   | 192.168.1.2 |   cross-over|  192.168.1.3  |
 |_| |___|
 
 It isn't 100% clear so I will ask.  What IP address is the Debian box
 getting on the ppp connection?  You only list one IP address for it
 but of course it must have another one for the upstream connection.

Not necessarily. The PPP interface may have the same address as the
Ethernet interface, or even be left unnumbered (without an address) and
use the address of the other interface.

Example here of same address on eth0 (to LAN) and ppp0 (to ISP) :

2: eth0: BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast
state UNKNOWN qlen 1000
inet6 2001:7a8:6d23:1::1/64 scope global
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
15: ppp0: POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST,NOARP,UP,LOWER_UP mtu 1460 qdisc
pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN qlen 3
link/ppp
inet6 2001:7a8:6d23:1::1/128 scope global

I used to leave ppp0 unnumbered and it happily used the address of eth0,
until I added a 6to4 tunnel interface and ppp0 started to use the local
tunnel address instead, which I didn't want.

 And you left that one out leaving us guessing about it.

Anyway, it does not matter so much. If ping to the outside works, then
IP connectivity, addressing and routing are correct.

 Hopefully it isn't getting another 192.168.1.x IP address there from
 its upstream.  If so then that would create routing problems for it.
 It would have the 192.168.1 subnet on both ports and that would cause
 it problems.

Not necessarily.

 For simple operation a router needs different IP subnets
 on the different ethernet ports.

A PPP link is not an Ethernet link. It does not have a subnet. At most
just a pair of arbitrary addresses at each end.


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Re: NFS and iptables during bootup

On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Martin T m4rtn...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 6:33 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Martin T m4rtn...@gmail.com wrote:

 I moved the script from /etc/init.d to /etc/network directory and
 changed the shebang line from /bin/bash to /bin/sh. /bin/sh on my
 system points to /bin/dash. Thanks for those tips!

 Content of firewall rule-files can be seen here:

 # cat /etc/firewall.conf /etc/firewall6.conf
 # Generated by iptables-save v1.4.8 on Tue Jul  1 10:41:45 2014
 *filter
 :INPUT DROP [17:1605]
 :FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0]
 :OUTPUT ACCEPT [259:30520]
 -A INPUT -s 10.10.10.0/24 -j ACCEPT
 -A INPUT -s 8.8.8.8/32 -j ACCEPT
 -A INPUT -s 8.8.4.4/32 -j ACCEPT
 COMMIT
 # Completed on Tue Jul  1 10:41:45 2014
 # Generated by ip6tables-save v1.4.8 on Tue Jul  1 10:41:56 2014
 *filter
 :INPUT DROP [10518:992304]
 :FORWARD DROP [0:0]
 :OUTPUT DROP [0:0]
 COMMIT
 # Completed on Tue Jul  1 10:41:56 2014

 If I comment out just the iptables-restore .. line from
 firewall-script and leave the ip6tables-restore .. line uncommented,
 the machine also boots without problems, i.e. it's the IPv4 iptables
 rules which seem to cause the statd to fail. I modified the IPv4
 rules(/etc/firewall.conf file) in a following manner:

 # cat /etc/firewall.conf
 # Generated by iptables-save v1.4.8 on Fri Aug  8 17:08:22 2014
 *filter
 :INPUT DROP [1:146]
 :FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0]
 :OUTPUT ACCEPT [50:7006]
 -A INPUT -s 10.10.10.0/24 -i eth0 -j ACCEPT
 -A INPUT -s 8.8.8.8/32 -i eth0 -j ACCEPT
 -A INPUT -s 8.8.4.4/32 -i eth0 -j ACCEPT
 -A INPUT -i lo0 -j ACCEPT
 COMMIT
 # Completed on Fri Aug  8 17:08:22 2014

 Your problem's probably that there's no lo0 (a BSD loopback device
 name?). It's lo.

 Yes, I erroneously used lo0 instead of lo in iptables rules. I use
 FreeBSD on daily basis :) However, once I allowed traffic to loopback
 interface and started NFS(/etc/init.d/nfs-common start), I saw some
 traffic on loopback interface:

 48   560 ACCEPT all  --  lo *   0.0.0.0/0
   0.0.0.0/0

 During the statd start following traffic is seen on loopback interface:

 20:39:48.789936 00:00:00:00:00:00  00:00:00:00:00:00, ethertype IPv4
 (0x0800), length 98: 127.0.0.1.997  127.0.0.1.111: UDP, length 56
 20:39:48.790044 00:00:00:00:00:00  00:00:00:00:00:00, ethertype IPv4
 (0x0800), length 70: 127.0.0.1.111  127.0.0.1.997: UDP, length 28
 20:39:48.790221 00:00:00:00:00:00  00:00:00:00:00:00, ethertype IPv4
 (0x0800), length 98: 127.0.0.1.997  127.0.0.1.111: UDP, length 56
 20:39:48.790250 00:00:00:00:00:00  00:00:00:00:00:00, ethertype IPv4
 (0x0800), length 70: 127.0.0.1.111  127.0.0.1.997: UDP, length 28
 20:39:48.790649 00:00:00:00:00:00  00:00:00:00:00:00, ethertype IPv4
 (0x0800), length 98: 127.0.0.1.997  127.0.0.1.111: UDP, length 56
 20:39:48.790759 00:00:00:00:00:00  00:00:00:00:00:00, ethertype IPv4
 (0x0800), length 70: 127.0.0.1.111  127.0.0.1.997: UDP, length 28
 20:39:48.791156 00:00:00:00:00:00  00:00:00:00:00:00, ethertype IPv4
 (0x0800), length 98: 127.0.0.1.997  127.0.0.1.111: UDP, length 56
 20:39:48.791278 00:00:00:00:00:00  00:00:00:00:00:00, ethertype IPv4
 (0x0800), length 70: 127.0.0.1.111  127.0.0.1.997: UDP, length 28

 Once I save the iptables rules and restart the machine, it boots up
 without issues. Thanks! In addition, I will look into
 iptables-persistent package.

 However, last but not least, in which situations one firewalls
 loopback interface? Or is it a best practice just to allow everything
 through the loopback interface like I did?

Please bottom-post.

You're welcome.

I've always allowed lo - and I've never seen anyone else disallow it.

But now that you've asked I feel like checking what apf, arno, and ufw
set by default. I can't see them disallowing lo but they might have
lo-to-lo-only rules.

Your dump above shows that it's 127.0.0.1 communicating to 127.0.0.1
so in statd's case it's feasible.


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Re: IP Forwarding to Windows machine

Mike McClain a écrit :
 On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 09:13:23PM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

 Same as Nemeth Gyorgy : restart without any filtering, just the IP
 forwarding and masquerading. If it does not work, it's not due to
 filtering. Then when everything works add the filtering.
 
 All suggestions appreciated.

Nemeth Gyorgy's ruleset is too complicated. Use the bare minimum :

sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
iptables -t nat -P ACCEPT
iptables -t filter -P ACCEPT
iptables -t mangle -P ACCEPT
iptables -t nat -F
iptables -t filter -F
iptables -t mangle -F
iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE

Then test the following commands from Windows in order :
tracert -d 130.89.148.12
tracert ftp.debian.org
telnet ftp.debian.org 21
(if you get the server banner then type quit to exit)


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Re: Netflix in chrome-unstable on Debian Sid

On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote:
 And what is that google-chrome-unstable deb? Does that have a version
 number?

$ apt-cache show google-chrome-unstable | grep Ver
Version: 38.0.2114.2-1
$ apt-cache show google-chrome-beta | grep Ver
Version: 37.0.2062.68-1
$ apt-cache show google-chrome-stable | grep Ver
Version: 36.0.1985.125-1

And the major version be bumped up whenever Google chooses has a new release.

google-chrome-unstable has a minor version bump almost daily.


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Re: TCP fast open IPv6

Georgi Naplatanov a écrit :
 
 I thought that IPv4 and IPv6 use the same implementation for TCP fast
 open and I just wondered why /proc/sys/net/ipv6/tcp_fastopen doesn't
 exist on my Jessie system.

AFACS, there are no /proc/sys/net/ipv6/tcp_* parameters at all. When
applicable, TCP connections over IPv6 use the same parameters as IPv4
defined in /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_*.


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Re: Netflix in chrome-unstable on Debian Sid

2014-08-10 Thread John Holland

Sorry, if you do a google search on google-chrome-unstable you can
find google's page where you can download that deb.

#dpkg -i google-chrome-unstable.deb

#apt-get -f install



(this is on Sid VM)


On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 21:51:41 -0500
Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote:

 John Holland wrote:
  working in Debian Sid VM by jtotheh @slashdot
  http://entertainment.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5512583cid=47639701
  
  
  
 
 That does not say how Netflix support was installed. With
 pipelight-multi?
 
 And what is that google-chrome-unstable deb? Does that have a
 version number?
 
 Hugo
 
 



-- 
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jholl...@vin-dit.org
gpg public key ID 0x9551CF2D 




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Re: IP Forwarding to Windows machine

Mike McClain a écrit :
 
 from a zsh prompt:
 Mike zsh:~ nslookup
 Default Server: resolver1.opendns.com
 Address: 208.67.222.222
 
 Didn't return.

Of course not. If you don't provide a domain name to query in the
command line, nslookup just sits there and waits for a command or a name
to query.


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Re: Irony

On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 4:47 PM, AW debian.list.trac...@1024bits.com wrote:
 On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:26:40 -0400
 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:

 Some of the reasons I switched my desktop from Ubuntu to Debian were:

 1) To do more config by editor and less by magical binary program.

 2) To get rid of gratuitous boot gunge (in this case Plymouth)

 3) To get closer to the Unix Philosophy

 Within months of my switch, oops, here comes systemd.

 A new thread... I chase this one, knowing full well that convincing anyone of
 anything is nearly impossible.

 There remains only a few holdouts from the major distributions: Gentoo and
 Slackware. So, give 'em a go...

Gentoo can be installed with either openrc or systemd.

Gentoo stable tracks upstream systemd more closely than Debian
unstable does.

If you want to use Gnome, the only supported init is systemd. There's
a force-openrc (I'm not sure of the wording but it's close to this)
USE variable for Gnome users who insist on using openrc but it's
unsupported.


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Re: Disk space usage

Hello,

Diogene Laerce a écrit :
 
 I have a strange issue with wheezy 7.6.0 : the system complains
 for only left 487 Mo on the ROOT level. But a :
[...]
 where /boot, /etc, /home, /opt, /tmp, /usr, /var and / are on their own
 partitions.

What's the output of df -h ?

 So please, anyone knows how can I find out where do the extra ~55 Go
 come from ?

Usually they are deleted but still opened files (close the program which
opened then) or files hidden under a mount point (bind-mount the root
filesystem on a temporary mount point so you can see what's inside the
directories var, home...).

 I've run a : lsof | grep deleted too and I got this :
 
 http://hastebin.com/mubucanagi.coffee

None seem to be in the root filesystem.


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Re: NFS and iptables during bootup

Tom H a écrit :
 
 Please bottom-post.

Please don't. It's annoying to have to scroll down all the (needlessly)
quoted text to read your reply. Top-posting is bad, but bottom-posting
without trimming a long quoted text is worse.

Consider interleaved/inline posting with proper trimming instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style


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Fsck Every ## Mounts

2014-08-10 Thread David Baron

On my previous 32-bit system, I would get fsck run on filesystems every so-many 
mounts. Was using ext3 with some ext4 extensions. Could take a bit on multi-
hundred gig partitions but assumed a necessity to keep things playing.

On my new 64-bit system with ext4 filesystems, I have yet to see fsck run.

Is the periodic fsck obsolete or unnecessary on ext4 filesystems?
If it is, in fact, needed, how might I enable it?


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Quiet Bootups

2014-08-10 Thread David Baron

With Grub, I did not see that endless stream of text pouring on the screen to 
rapidly to read.

Because I (presumably) know how to configure it, I have gone back to lilo. Now 
have all that text back. Is there an append= or lilo.conf entry to 
control/eliminate the text playback?


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Re: End of hypocrisy ?

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 1:15 AM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
Tom H wrote:
Bob Proulx wrote:

I believe the point was that it should be make before break. They
should have allowed people to use systemd without preventing people
from not using it. They didn't make a new system without breaking the
old one. They broke the old one while trying to build the new one.
That is the problem. You shouldn't burn down your old house while you
are still designing and building your new house.

Had Gnome not had to rely on systemd as pid 1, we might not have had a
CTTE bug, etc.

But then the question becames did the GNOME 3 folks had to rely on
systemd? Did they really have to do it? No. We have had a plethora
of window managers and desktop systms for years and years and years
without it. They didn't have to require it.

I am not saying that there weren't corner cases with problems. I am
saying that for all of those years we were apparently happy in spite
of those corner case problems. Therefore I don't think GNOME 3 had
to rely on systemd as pid 1. That is disproven by the last few
decades without it. And somehow I think all of the happy *BSD users
who don't have systemd will also disagree that it is a hard
requirement.

My point is that it would have been much easier if they had created a
system that you could optionally migrate to without being *forced*
onto it. Then if it turns out to be clearly superior people will
desire to move to it. People would then move of their own volition
because they would want to move to it. If they had done it that way
it would have avoided much unpleasantness.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just reminding you of the chronology.

IIRC it was the maintainer of the Gnome power applet who decided to
depend on logind. There was some pushback and his response was I'm
the maintainer. It's my decision.

Olav Vitters, a Gnome guy who always argues on behalf of Gnome/systemd
on debian-devel@ (I don't think that he's involved in Debian in any
other way), has said on his blog it seems eventually GNOME will head
to be systemd and Linux-only (even when he was saying the opposite on
debian-devel@, like we support consolekit).

So I agree with you (and I should've said so in my earlier post) that,
for jessie, sysvinit should've been the default init and those people
wanting to use systemd (or Gnome {or KDE[?]}) would've added
init=/lib/systemd/systemd to the kernel cmdline. The Debian systemd
maintainers could've used that extra release to integrate systemd
without the pressure of an upcoming freeze/release.

As I've said in an earlier thread, AIUI, systemd is going to be the
only init unless someone develops a dbus manager (for a standalone
udev; the way that Ubuntu developed a cgroup manager for a standalone
logind) once kdbus is in-kernel uptream and Debian compiles it into
its kernel.

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Re: Quiet Bootups

David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:

 With Grub, I did not see that endless stream of text pouring on the screen to 
 rapidly to read.

Remove quit from GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in /etc/default/grub, run
update-grub.

S°

-- 
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Re: Fsck Every ## Mounts

David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:

 On my previous 32-bit system, I would get fsck run on filesystems
 every so-many mounts. Was using ext3 with some ext4 extensions. Could
 take a bit on multi- hundred gig partitions but assumed a necessity to
 keep things playing.

 On my new 64-bit system with ext4 filesystems, I have yet to see fsck
 run.

 Is the periodic fsck obsolete or unnecessary on ext4 filesystems?  If
 it is, in fact, needed, how might I enable it?

man tune2fs, if you really think you need this. But the defaults of
the filesystems changed over time, better leave them the way the people
knowing about them have set them.

Grüße,
Sven.

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Re: Quiet Bootups

2014-08-10 Thread David Baron

On Sunday 10 August 2014 13:13:13 Sven Hartge wrote:
 David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:
  With Grub, I did not see that endless stream of text pouring on the screen
  to rapidly to read.
 
 Remove quit from GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in /etc/default/grub, run
 update-grub.
 
 S°
Thanks, but I want to go the other way, from lilo.


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Re: Software compatibility between different architectures?

2014-08-10 Thread Martin T

 how compatible are drivers on ports for different CPU architectures,
 e.g. I have a USB HSDPA modem which works great on Wheezy port for x86
 architecture, but can I expect it to work on Wheezy port for ARM?

 If your ARM platform's USB driver works, then yes, you can expect the
 exact same support for any USB device you plug into it.

I see. So usually there are no driver or other software issues because
of different CPU architecture, i.e. once the kernel successfully boots
up on ARM platform one can expect everything work exactly same as on
wide-spread x86/x86-64 architecture?


thanks,
Martin


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Re: Quiet Bootups

2014-08-10 Thread Brian

On Sun 10 Aug 2014 at 14:22:56 +0300, David Baron wrote:

 On Sunday 10 August 2014 13:13:13 Sven Hartge wrote:
  David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:
   With Grub, I did not see that endless stream of text pouring on the screen
   to rapidly to read.
  
  Remove quit from GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in /etc/default/grub, run
  update-grub.
  
  S°
 Thanks, but I want to go the other way, from lilo.

'append=quiet' in your conf file for lilo?


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Re: Quiet Bootups

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:36 AM, David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:

 With Grub, I did not see that endless stream of text pouring on the screen to
 rapidly to read.

 Because I (presumably) know how to configure it, I have gone back to lilo. Now
 have all that text back. Is there an append= or lilo.conf entry to
 control/eliminate the text playback?

append=quiet


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Re: Quiet Bootups

David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:
 On Sunday 10 August 2014 13:13:13 Sven Hartge wrote:
 David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:

 With Grub, I did not see that endless stream of text pouring on the
 screen to rapidly to read.
 
 Remove quit from GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in /etc/default/grub,
 run update-grub.

 Thanks, but I want to go the other way, from lilo.

I am confused.

I thought you first went from LILO to GRUB and noticed the missing wall
of text and then went back to LILO to get it back?

To also get all kernel messages during boot with GRUB, you need to
remove quiet from GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
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Re: Software compatibility between different architectures?

Martin T m4rtn...@gmail.com wrote:

 how compatible are drivers on ports for different CPU architectures,
 e.g. I have a USB HSDPA modem which works great on Wheezy port for
 x86 architecture, but can I expect it to work on Wheezy port for
 ARM?

 If your ARM platform's USB driver works, then yes, you can expect the
 exact same support for any USB device you plug into it.

 I see. So usually there are no driver or other software issues because
 of different CPU architecture, i.e. once the kernel successfully boots
 up on ARM platform one can expect everything work exactly same as on
 wide-spread x86/x86-64 architecture?

Only if your devices uses in kernel drivers. If you need to use a
binary-only driver supplied by the manufacturer of the device, it will
not work.

Note: Some ARM-systems (Raspberry Pi for example) don't provide enough
(read: only about 200mW and not the full 500mW) power on their on-board
USB ports. Devices which want to draw more power than provided will fail
to work and in most cases hard reset the ARM-system.

Usage of a seperate powered USB hub is advised.

Grüße,
Sven.

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Re: Software compatibility between different architectures?

2014-08-10 Thread Joel Rees

2014/08/10 20:30 Martin T m4rtn...@gmail.com:

  how compatible are drivers on ports for different CPU architectures,
  e.g. I have a USB HSDPA modem which works great on Wheezy port for x86
  architecture, but can I expect it to work on Wheezy port for ARM?
 
  If your ARM platform's USB driver works, then yes, you can expect the
  exact same support for any USB device you plug into it.

 I see. So usually there are no driver or other software issues because
 of different CPU architecture, i.e. once the kernel successfully boots
 up on ARM platform one can expect everything work exactly same as on
 wide-spread x86/x86-64 architecture?

In theory, C, with a bit of help from the pre-processor, hides all the
strangeness. You still hit bumps every now and then. (Byte order is an
example, see the little-endian PPC port, but there can be other issues.)

--Joel Rees

Computer memory is just fancy paper,
CPUs just fancy pens.
All is a stream of text
flowing from the past into the future.

Re: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 08/10/2014 02:45 AM, Bonno Bloksma wrote:

 Wanderer: While using Wheezy starting to use poweroff is the proper
 way to migrate from halt. But I do agree, it might have been a good
 idea to communicate this in a better way.

That's Debian-specific, though. halt and poweroff (and systemd) are not
only Debian.

 Charlie: According to the man pages all 3, halt, poweroff and reboot,
 use the shutdown command to perform the necessary steps when not
 starting in runlevel 0 or 6, which is pretty much always. So it is
 really weird that in your case poweroff does not work but shutdown
 does.
 
 quote-
 If  halt  or  reboot is called when the system is not in runlevel 0
 or 6, in other words when it's running normally, shutdown will be
 invoked instead (with the -h or -r flag). For more info see the
 shutdown(8) manpage.

That's weird, and if it represents a change made by systemd, possibly
unfortunate. I know of at least one somewhat degenerate, but broadly
distributed and not uncommonly used, environment (which I think may be
based on SuSE) where 'shutdown' does not work at all - exits with an
error when called - but 'halt' and 'reboot' do work. (And probably so
does 'poweroff'.)

Unless that environment is in fact running in one of those two
runlevels, which I'll admit is not impossible (though I suspect it's
using its own homegrown init system), that would seem to imply that
those commands are not invoking 'shutdown'...

- --
   The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Re: Question about dch

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 5:26 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 2:18 PM, George Shuklin george.shuk...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 On 08/09/2014 07:16 PM, Tom H wrote:

 From the man page:

 --increment, -i
 Increment either the final component of the Debian release num-
 ber  or, if this is a native Debian package, the version number.
 On Ubuntu, this will also  change  the  suffix  from buildX  to
 ubuntu1. ...

 Means it hardcoded? Thanks.

 Sorry, I was too terse earlier.

 It can be overridden with --vendor.

One more thing.

I'm assuming that you're packaging on Ubuntu for Debian so using
--vendor debian will not append ubuntu to the version.

I've never tried it but I don't think that you can use any name for
the vendor and, other than debian, that name'll be appended to the
version.

A better way is to use -U (u for upstream).

Anyway, you can edit whatever dch sets as a version.


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Re: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

2014-08-10 Thread Sven Joachim

On 2014-08-10 14:46 +0200, The Wanderer wrote:

 On 08/10/2014 02:45 AM, Bonno Bloksma wrote:

 quote-
 If  halt  or  reboot is called when the system is not in runlevel 0
 or 6, in other words when it's running normally, shutdown will be
 invoked instead (with the -h or -r flag). For more info see the
 shutdown(8) manpage.

 That's weird, and if it represents a change made by systemd, possibly
 unfortunate.

You are aware that the quote above is from sysvinit's halt manpage?  On
systemd, halt is equivalent to systemctl halt.

Cheers,
   Sven


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Re: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 08/10/2014 09:12 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:

 On 2014-08-10 14:46 +0200, The Wanderer wrote:
 
 On 08/10/2014 02:45 AM, Bonno Bloksma wrote:

 quote-
 If  halt  or  reboot is called when the system is not in runlevel
 0 or 6, in other words when it's running normally, shutdown will
 be invoked instead (with the -h or -r flag). For more info see
 the shutdown(8) manpage.
 
 That's weird, and if it represents a change made by systemd,
 possibly unfortunate.
 
 You are aware that the quote above is from sysvinit's halt manpage?

No, I wasn't; I don't recall having seen an indication of where these
quotes were coming from (except that context seemed to imply that one
previous quote had come from a systemd-related bug report).

Looking back now I see an according to the man pages comment, but that
wasn't closely enough associated with the quote that I expected them to
be related, and it wasn't clear which (set of) man pages that would be
in any case. I see a few more hints at the sysvinit origin of the quote
(including within second part of the quote itself) now that I look
again, but I'm not sure how much of that is just the benefit of
hindsight...

- --
   The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Re: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 8:46 AM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote:
On 08/10/2014 02:45 AM, Bonno Bloksma wrote:

Charlie: According to the man pages all 3, halt, poweroff and reboot,
use the shutdown command to perform the necessary steps when not
starting in runlevel 0 or 6, which is pretty much always. So it is
really weird that in your case poweroff does not work but shutdown
does.

If halt or reboot is called when the system is not in runlevel 0
or 6, in other words when it's running normally, shutdown will be
invoked instead (with the -h or -r flag). For more info see the
shutdown(8) manpage.

That's weird, and if it represents a change made by systemd, possibly
unfortunate. I know of at least one somewhat degenerate, but broadly
distributed and not uncommonly used, environment (which I think may be
based on SuSE) where 'shutdown' does not work at all - exits with an
error when called - but 'halt' and 'reboot' do work. (And probably so
does 'poweroff'.)

halt/poweroff/reboot have called shutdown at least since 6/squeeze.

AIUI halt and poweroff are different if the system has a mode where
the OS can be halted without being powered off, similar to a Solaris
SPARC box where going to runlevel 0 shuts down the OS to go to a
firmware prompt and runlevel 5 shuts down the OS and powers off the
box.

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Re: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

2014-08-10 Thread Charlie

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 06:45:04 + Bonno Bloksma sent:

 Charlie: According to the man pages all 3, halt, poweroff and reboot,
 use the shutdown command to perform the necessary steps when not
 starting in runlevel 0 or 6, which is pretty much always. So it is
 really weird that in your case poweroff does not work but shutdown
 does.

Actually poweroff does turn off the machine, and I'm unsure why the
first time I tried it, it failed. Possibly I used it in a user terminal
rather than one that was logged as root.

But I close my system down; all open, running programs off; leaving only
one root terminal up and running, and anything that the system has
running in the background that I don't actually start.

The first time I tried poweroff it didn't work, but produced no error
message. The next time, after my post, I tried it again and it worked.
It worked very quickly, and I was a little worried that possibly it
didn't park the hard drive properly. Because when I use shutdown now.
It takes longer to turn off the machine and there is a blinking cursor,
- on the monitor before the hardware is turned off.

My thought is that shutdown now is not in such a hurry and parks the
harddrive properly. But it could just be that it then takes longer
because it evokes poweroff, if my reading of your description is
correct, and that's the reason for the delay?

The shutdown now delay is not always of the same length of time.
Sometimes it takes a little longer than others. Maybe poweroff would
also take longer if I used it at those times.

Superstition wins the day for me. I think that shutdown now, because it
takes longer to turn the machine off, seems to be doing the job
properly.

But halt definitely only shuts down the system and leaves the hardware
running, on every occasion that I have fooishly used it out of long
habit and not thinking about what I'm doing. To stop the machine I then
pull the plug.

Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

That government is best which governs least. .Henry David
Thoreau

***

Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic

-


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Re: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 08/10/2014 09:26 AM, Tom H wrote:

 On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 8:46 AM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm
 wrote:
 
 On 08/10/2014 02:45 AM, Bonno Bloksma wrote:

 If  halt  or  reboot is called when the system is not in runlevel
 0 or 6, in other words when it's running normally, shutdown will
 be invoked instead (with the -h or -r flag). For more info see
 the shutdown(8) manpage.
 
 That's weird, and if it represents a change made by systemd,
 possibly unfortunate. I know of at least one somewhat degenerate,
 but broadly distributed and not uncommonly used, environment (which
 I think may be based on SuSE) where 'shutdown' does not work at all
 - exits with an error when called - but 'halt' and 'reboot' do
 work. (And probably so does 'poweroff'.)
 
 halt/poweroff/reboot have called shutdown at least since 6/squeeze.

Ah, so that may be a Debian-specific behavior, rather than an upstream
one?

That might explain the discrepancy, if so.

If not, perhaps the environment in question is simply using older
versions of those tools, which do not yet invoke 'shutdown'...

- --
   The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Re: Setup a Nvidia multiseat

2014-08-10 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom


Floris wrote:

Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 11:16:58 +0200 schreef Floris jkflo...@dds.nl:

Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 04:32:00 +0200 schreef Hugo Vanwoerkom 
hvw59...@care2.com:




snip

Could you elaborate? You mean that if you connect, lets say a ps/2 
keyboard and an USB keyboard, 2 Nvidia video cards with 2 monitors 
attached and 2 USB mice and I run systemd, then it will figure out 
how to make a 2-seater out of this. Meaning 2 users  logged on 
simultaneously. Surely you must set up a proper xorg.conf, how much 
should it contain? Have you actually tried this or is it your 
conclusion that systemd ought to do this?


Hugo



Three steps are necessary:

1 - Create a /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/90-nvidia.conf
2 - Tag the Nvidia card for seat1 as a master-of-seat
3 - Attach a mouse, keyboard and soundcard


forgot to say
http://code.lexarcana.com/posts/simple-multiseat-setup-on-fedora-17.html
for some more information about a multiseat setup from our Fedora friends



'Tis amazing. I am going to have to try this because I have the hardware 
lying around. Any further links are welcome. Thanks!


Hugo


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Re: Setup a Nvidia multiseat

2014-08-10 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom


Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Floris wrote:

Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 11:16:58 +0200 schreef Floris jkflo...@dds.nl:

Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 04:32:00 +0200 schreef Hugo Vanwoerkom 
hvw59...@care2.com:




snip

Could you elaborate? You mean that if you connect, lets say a ps/2 
keyboard and an USB keyboard, 2 Nvidia video cards with 2 monitors 
attached and 2 USB mice and I run systemd, then it will figure out 
how to make a 2-seater out of this. Meaning 2 users  logged on 
simultaneously. Surely you must set up a proper xorg.conf, how much 
should it contain? Have you actually tried this or is it your 
conclusion that systemd ought to do this?


Hugo



Three steps are necessary:

1 - Create a /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/90-nvidia.conf
2 - Tag the Nvidia card for seat1 as a master-of-seat
3 - Attach a mouse, keyboard and soundcard


forgot to say
http://code.lexarcana.com/posts/simple-multiseat-setup-on-fedora-17.html
for some more information about a multiseat setup from our Fedora friends



'Tis amazing. I am going to have to try this because I have the hardware 
lying around. Any further links are welcome. Thanks!




I forgot to ask: is systemd also necessary?

Hugo


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Re: understanding Debian support on ARM architecture

2014-08-10 Thread Martin T

Reco,

thanks for this explanation! Could you please explain this hardware
enumeration provided by x86/x86-64 CPU's to kernel bit more? What kind
of information is provided to kernel in case of x86/x86-64 CPU?

thanks,
Martin

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 04:40:05 +0300
Martin T m4rtn...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

according to wiki, Debian is supported on little-endian ARM
architecture. However, then wiki lists some sub-architectures which
are supported. For example iop32x, ixp4xx, kirkwood and orion5x. Does
this mean that Debian ARM port works on fairly limited number of
sub-architectures? For example all the ARM-based embedded boards would
probably not work with Debian ARM port?

There's a difference between x86 and ARM, and that difference is
hardware enumeration. x86 provides OS with one, ARM does not.

To boot any Linux on ARM and to work with any hardware, one does need
so called 'device tree' ([1]) compiled into the kernel.

So, to answer your question - you have 100% guarantee that booting any
of armel Debian kernel won't be successful and will end with kernel
panic in the best case for any of those ARM-based embedded boards.

Now, if you manage to build a working kernel for that specific board
and boot it - sure you can use any part of Debian with the board short
of the stock kernel(s).

[1] http://lwn.net/Articles/448502/

PS I'm happy user of kirkwood family Debian kernel :)

Reco

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Re: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 9:29 AM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote:
 On 08/10/2014 09:26 AM, Tom H wrote:
 On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 8:46 AM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm
 wrote:
 On 08/10/2014 02:45 AM, Bonno Bloksma wrote:

 If  halt  or  reboot is called when the system is not in runlevel
 0 or 6, in other words when it's running normally, shutdown will
 be invoked instead (with the -h or -r flag). For more info see
 the shutdown(8) manpage.

 That's weird, and if it represents a change made by systemd,
 possibly unfortunate. I know of at least one somewhat degenerate,
 but broadly distributed and not uncommonly used, environment (which
 I think may be based on SuSE) where 'shutdown' does not work at all
 - exits with an error when called - but 'halt' and 'reboot' do
 work. (And probably so does 'poweroff'.)

 halt/poweroff/reboot have called shutdown at least since 6/squeeze.

 Ah, so that may be a Debian-specific behavior, rather than an upstream
 one?

 That might explain the discrepancy, if so.

 If not, perhaps the environment in question is simply using older
 versions of those tools, which do not yet invoke 'shutdown'...

It's in the BSDs that haltco don't call shutdown. It's been called in
sysvinit for a long time.

This is the halt man page from the upstream sysvinit 2.75 release,
which was in hamm (debian 2.0). Take a look at the NOTES:

HALT(8)
   Linux System
Administrator's Manual
 HALT(8)



NAME
   halt, reboot, poweroff - stop the system.

SYNOPSIS
   /sbin/halt [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i] [-p]
   /sbin/reboot [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i]
   /sbin/poweroff [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i]

DESCRIPTION
   Halt notes that the system is being brought down in the file
/var/log/wtmp, and then either tells the kernel to halt, reboot or
poweroff the system. If halt or reboot is called when the system is
not in runlevel 0 or 6, shutdown(8) will be invoked instead
   (with the flag -h or -r).

OPTIONS
   -n Don't sync before reboot or halt.

   -w Don't actually reboot or halt but only write the wtmp
record (in the /var/log/wtmp file).

   -d Don't write the wtmp record. The -n flag implies -d.

   -f Force halt or reboot, don't call shutdown(8).

   -i Shut down all network interfaces just before halt or reboot.

   -p When halting the system, do a poweroff. This is the
default when halt is called as poweroff.

DIAGNOSTICS
   If you're not the superuser, you will get the message `must be
superuser'.

NOTES
   Under previous sysvinit releases, reboot and halt should never
be called directly. From this release on halt and reboot invoke
shutdown(8) if the system is not in runlevel 0 or 6.

AUTHOR
   Miquel van Smoorenburg, miqu...@cistron.nl

SEE ALSO
   shutdown(8), init(1)


  Feb 24, 1998

  HALT(8)


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Re: par2

2014-08-10 Thread Gary Dale


On 09/08/14 08:32 PM, David Christensen wrote:

On 08/09/2014 12:24 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

However I can see you wanting them to be
out of the way. par2 actually puts them in the current directory unless
you tell it differently so you could for example do:
   cd /mnt/datadrive/.par2/stuff
   par2 c files.par2 ../../stuff/*
or just:
   par2 c /mnt/datadrive/.par2/stuff/files.par2 /mnt/datadrive/stuff/*
or even:
   cd /mnt/datadrive/stuff
   par2 c ../.par2/stuff/files.par2 *


Okay.  I'll need to write a wrapper script to create and populate the 
tree.



David


Yes. The wrapper script would check for new files and directories then 
create the new par2s and necessary directories in the .par2 tree.



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Re: understanding Debian support on ARM architecture

 Hi.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:09:58 +0300
Martin T m4rtn...@gmail.com wrote:

 Reco,
 
 thanks for this explanation! Could you please explain this hardware
 enumeration provided by x86/x86-64 CPU's to kernel bit more? What kind
 of information is provided to kernel in case of x86/x86-64 CPU?

Sure:

1) Obtain any x86 hardware.

2) Boot Linux.

3) Run lspci. Observe a non-empty result, which will probably include
SATA, Ethernet, USB, Memory controllers and probably much more.

4) Repeat steps 1-3 with any ARM board (assuming successful boot, of
course). Observe exactly one line that says (in my case, and that's
good one, usually there's nothing at all):

00:00.0 Host bridge: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88F6281 [Kirkwood]
ARM SoC (rev 03)

And that particular hardware has at least Memory, Ethernet, 4-port
SATA controller and USB.


That's they mean then they talk about hardware enumeration - it's all
there yet ARM platform has no means to discover it or to tell Linux
kernel its there.

So, you count the hardware, produce device tree, compile it into the
kernel - and you can work with said hardware.

You have a different set of hardware - you'll need a different device
tree. And that means a different kernel.


PS There's no need to CC me, I'm subscribed to the list.

PPS Please do not top-post.

Reco


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Re: System broken after full-upgrade: please help!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 08/10/2014 10:15 AM, Tom H wrote:

 On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 9:29 AM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm
 wrote:
 
 On 08/10/2014 09:26 AM, Tom H wrote:

 halt/poweroff/reboot have called shutdown at least since
 6/squeeze.
 
 Ah, so that may be a Debian-specific behavior, rather than an
 upstream one?
 
 That might explain the discrepancy, if so.
 
 If not, perhaps the environment in question is simply using older
 versions of those tools, which do not yet invoke 'shutdown'...
 
 It's in the BSDs that haltco don't call shutdown. It's been called
 in sysvinit for a long time.

It's entirely possible that that environment in question does not use
sysvinit even in part, so it's not entirely impossible that it's
actually using halt etc. from a non-sysvinit source. I'll have to
investigate if I decide it's worth the bother to find out.

Thanks for the information; this is a potentially interesting puzzle
where I didn't even realize one might exist.

- --
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Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Re: Irony

2014-08-10 Thread Stefan Monnier

 If some of you don't like it, write the software you want.  Or pay
 someone to  write it.  But enough already.

Doesn't guarantee that Debian will decide to use it.
I think the right way is to submit bug-reports about particular problems
you find in systemd.  Maybe that won't cause a change to something else,
but it might solve the actual problems (other than personal dislike).


Stefan


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Re: par2

2014-08-10 Thread Gary Dale


On 09/08/14 06:02 PM, AW wrote:

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 16:37:52 -0400
Gary Dale garyd...@torfree.net wrote:

   The speed of the check is usually limited by the speed of reading the
   file(s) from disk. A par2 check is more direct and will also
   automatically repair any bit rot that has developed.

Definitely not.

For very small files nearly all methods of error checking are about the same.
For large files, there are massive time differences between md5, sha1, par2.
The longest time, by far, is par2 checking.  I even did a simple check myself
to ensure this is true...

Here are the results:

Summary:
par2 verify about double time than sha1 for large files.
sha1 verify about double time than md5 for large flies.

par2 creation about 21 times longer than sha1 generation for large files.
sha1 creation about double time than md5 for large files.

Details:
For check generation:
10 x 1024 files for md5sum generation
Elapsed time is 0.00465393 seconds.

10 x 1024 files for sha1sum generation
Elapsed time is 0.00407004 seconds.

3 x 1GB and 2 x 2GB files for md5sum generation
Elapsed time is 13.0712 seconds.

3 x 1GB and 2 x 2GB files for sha1sum generation
Elapsed time is 22.3703 seconds.

10 x 1024 files for par2 generation
Elapsed time is 0.0724349 seconds.

3 x 1GB and 2 x 2GB files for par2 generation
Elapsed time is 471.907 seconds.

For verify of check:
10 x 1024 files for md5sum verify
Elapsed time is 0.00395489 seconds.

10 x 1024 files for sha1sum verify
Elapsed time is 0.00317788 seconds.

3 x 1GB and 2 x 2GB files for md5sum verify
Elapsed time is 12.9887 seconds.

3 x 1GB and 2 x 2GB files for sha1sum verify
Elapsed time is 22.6091 seconds.

10 x 1024 files for par2 verify
Elapsed time is 0.019568 seconds.

3 x 1GB and 2 x 2GB files for par2 verify
Elapsed time is 51.4989 seconds.

CPU:
Architecture:  x86_64
CPU op-mode(s):32-bit, 64-bit
Byte Order:Little Endian
CPU(s):8
On-line CPU(s) list:   0-7
Thread(s) per core:2
Core(s) per socket:4
Socket(s): 1
NUMA node(s):  1
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU family:6
Model: 26
Stepping:  5
CPU MHz:   1600.000
BogoMIPS:  6414.40
Virtualization:VT-x
L1d cache: 32K
L1i cache: 32K
L2 cache:  256K
L3 cache:  8192K
NUMA node0 CPU(s): 0-7

Memory:   24GB

--Andrew


Your results with respect to creation aren't really relevant because 
neither md5 nor sha create repair files. They can only tell you if the 
file has errors. You need to create the par2 repair files no matter what 
check you use.


It's the verify times that are important. Moreover, you have picked the 
weakest sha check which is little better than md5sum (160 bits versus 128).


I note also that you don't actually break out the CPU time from the disk 
i/o time for the different methods. You simply take the elapsed time. 
This doesn't show that the difference in times is CPU time and not I/O time.


Nor do you specify whether you created individual check files for each 
test file (normal for md5 and sha) or created a single check file for 
all the files being tested (the way par2 is usually used).


You do show that par2 seems to scale better than sha or md5 when dealing 
with large files. While the sha1sum is 6 times faster on the small file 
test, it is only twice as fast on the larger file test. However neither 
may be  relevant in this situation because you don't actually specify 
how the testing was done.



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Re: [OT] [politics] Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7

2014-08-10 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Saturday 09 August 2014 21:42:32 Iain M Conochie wrote:
 I find it interesting that you feel more in control of a privately
 funded corporation than a legitimate arm of a sovereign government. It
 is obvious what the NSA want to do (snoop), I'm not so sure what google
 want to do.

 Almost 300 million US citizens have the ability to curtail the NSA's
 behaviour if enough of 'em want to make something of it; this is their
 constitutional right.

And the rest of us are at their mercy.

Speaking personally, I feel less threatened by Google, though the fact that it 
is an American corporation does give me pause.

Lisi


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Re: Irony

2014-08-10 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Sunday 10 August 2014 15:50:29 Stefan Monnier wrote:
  If some of you don't like it, write the software you want.  Or pay
  someone to  write it.  But enough already.

 Doesn't guarantee that Debian will decide to use it.

No - but the individuals concerned can.

 I think the right way is to submit bug-reports about particular problems
 you find in systemd.  Maybe that won't cause a change to something else,
 but it might solve the actual problems (other than personal dislike).

Those whom I was addressing don't want to solve the problems.  They want 
Debian to give in to their demands.  What you are suggesting is indeed more 
productive and achievable.

Lisi


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Re: Fsck Every ## Mounts

2014-08-10 Thread Gary Dale


On 10/08/14 07:14 AM, Sven Hartge wrote:

David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:


On my previous 32-bit system, I would get fsck run on filesystems
every so-many mounts. Was using ext3 with some ext4 extensions. Could
take a bit on multi- hundred gig partitions but assumed a necessity to
keep things playing.
On my new 64-bit system with ext4 filesystems, I have yet to see fsck
run.
Is the periodic fsck obsolete or unnecessary on ext4 filesystems?  If
it is, in fact, needed, how might I enable it?

man tune2fs, if you really think you need this. But the defaults of
the filesystems changed over time, better leave them the way the people
knowing about them have set them.

Grüße,
Sven.

I don't like the typical defaults. I prefer to use tune2fs -c  to adjust 
it to use a prime number (e.g. if currently checked after 25 mounts, 
change it to 23 or 29). The use of prime numbers make it much less 
likely that all your drives will be checked at the same time, at least 
for desktop machines.


Since servers generally go months between reboots, fsck will generally 
be run on an elapsed time since last check basis so the tune2fs -c 
setting is rarely used. Instead you need to look at the -i setting.



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Suppressing pushd output

2014-08-10 Thread Tony van der Hoff

Hi,

In my shell (bash) scripts, I occasionally use pushd/popd to descend
into subdirectories;

pushd $dir; do_something; popd

Unfortunately the pushd/popd generate a lot of (mostly) unwanted output,
with no apparent way of suppressing it.
So, my solution is:

pushd $dir /dev/null; do_something; popd /dev/null

which has the desired effect, but for debugging, it's useful to
re-enable the output.

I tried, and failed, this:

DEBUG=1
if [ $DEBUG -eq 0 ]; then
NULLOUT='/dev/null'
fi
pushd $dir ${NULLOUT}; do_something; popd ${NULLOUT}

The $NULLOUT is totally ineffective.

Any suggestions as to why this might be so?

-- 
Tony van der Hoff  | mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
Ariège, France |


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Re: Suppressing pushd output

 Hi.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:03:20 +0200
Tony van der Hoff t...@vanderhoff.org wrote:

 DEBUG=1
 if [ $DEBUG -eq 0 ]; then
   NULLOUT='/dev/null'
 fi
 pushd $dir ${NULLOUT}; do_something; popd ${NULLOUT}
 

Try it like this:

#DEBUG=1
OUT=/dev/null
[ -z $DEBUG ]  OUT=/dev/stdout

pushd $dir  $OUT; do_something; popd  $OUT

Reco


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Re: par2

2014-08-10 Thread AW

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 10:50:42 -0400
Gary Dale garyd...@torfree.net wrote:

  Your results...

The test was only a very simple comparison.  If you want a more thorough test,
it's certainly much better to break everything out the way you have listed...
and it's probably best done on the chosen and completed hardware configuration.

However, everything was completed on the same cpu, with the same drive, and
same resources.  This means that - the disk i/o is constant, since the drive
and controller are the same.  So, logically, the main difference /must/ be cpu
time.

I'm not arguing for or against any particular bit-rot testing mechanism - just
that given uniform drive parameters, various methods of verifying file data
integrity are limited by cpu time. This should also be obvious from the math
required to do the various crypto and data checks...

As far as par creation goes -- it's obviously going to take a long time...
that's why you want to do it less often, and in a scheduled way.

md5
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5

sha1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-1

par
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed-Solomon_error_correction

It can easily be seen, even by a non-expert, looking at the summary box
explanation that comparing md5 with sha1... sha1 would be much slower.  It's
harder to compare reed-solomon in a pseudo direct way --- but it is slower...
This is not a design error.  It's actually what is desired.  The slower a
crypto scheme functions, the 'better' it is... Of course, this is a generalized
non-expert statement.  However, it can be imagined that the goal is to slow
down an attacker to a speed that requires so significant a time requirement
that brute forcing would be effectively impossible.  On the par checking, it's
based on sampling and correlation.  All of these mathematical calculations are
done in the cpu.  So, if you have a system with enough RAM to hold large files
-- the limiting factor will be cpu time, cpu resources, and program structure
-- i.e. does the program use the processor effectively, with threading and
properly filled registers...

--Andrew


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Towards an instructive minimalist intall of Openbox

2014-08-10 Thread Richard Owlett


My goal: understand Debian from a fairly low level on up
Environment: a laptop dedicated exclusively as a learning environment
Resources:   complete DVD sets for Squeeze and Wheezy (totally 
isolated from internet ;)


History:
When initially moving from Windows to Debian, installed Squeeze 
with Gnome2. A generally satisfactory experience though standard 
install had programs I would never use and was missing essential 
programs. I was tweaking it when I obtained Wheezy.


Gnome3 is an ugly non-starter. Investigating relative merits of 
DE's led to understanding difference between a DE and a WM (thank 
you to list for educational posts).


What should I be reading to understand:
  1. what would be minimal set of programs to install?
  2. what scripts get run after a cold or warm boot?
 (I've discovered I know less about that than I thought I did.)

Thank you.



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Re: since demise of encfs what to use for encrypting dir

2014-08-10 Thread Andre N Batista

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 11:16:17AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 On Lu, 04 aug 14, 14:58:15, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
  I'm still not sure why it isn't in testing at
  the moment,
 
 http://tracker.debian.org/encfs and click on the question mark next to 
 
 The package has not entered testing even though the delay is over
 
 The rest should be self-explanatory.
 
  but as long as it's in both stable and unstable I'm not going to worry 
  too much.
 
 It has to enter testing *before* the freeze in order to be part of the 
 next stable release. You might want to help with it if you care about 
 it.
 

Is there any advantage of using encfs instead of ecryptfs?


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Setup a Nvidia multiseat

Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:49:38 +0200 schreef Hugo Vanwoerkom  
hvw59...@care2.com:


...
 'Tis amazing. I am going to have to try this because I have the  
hardware lying around. Any further links are welcome. Thanks!




I forgot to ask: is systemd also necessary?

Hugo


you need loginctl, so the answer is yes, you need systemd

success,

floris


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Re: Disk space usage

2014-08-10 Thread Jörg-Volker Peetz

Suggestion to do:

  du / -hx --max-depth=1

(this doesn't show the mount points like /home or /sys)
If this does not add up to the size of the root partition, then

  mount --bind / /mnt
  du /mnt -hx --max-depth=1

If this adds up to approximately the size of the root partition, there's
something stored under a mount point which is now reachable.
After cleaning that don't forget to

  umount /mnt

By the way, this topic was already discussed on this list recently (last time
end of July).
And what is the meaning of Go?
Your lsof output shows no file on /.
-- 
Regards,
jvp.



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Re: IP Forwarding to Windows machine

2014-08-10 Thread Mike McClain

On Sat, Aug 09, 2014 at 10:30:53PM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
 Mike McClain wrote:
  Pascal Hambourg wrote:
   Please describe your network topology. Where's the Win2k box ?
 
  __  
  |   Debian|  LAN|  Windows 2000 |
  Inet|Linux|-|  S40  |
  (ppp)   | 192.168.1.2 |   cross-over|  192.168.1.3  |
  |_| |___|

 It isn't 100% clear so I will ask.  What IP address is the Debian box
 getting on the ppp connection?  You only list one IP address for it
 but of course it must have another one for the upstream connection.
 And you left that one out leaving us guessing about it.

snip

Hi Bob,
Sorry I left that out, I should have shown ISP between Inet and
the Debian box. my external IP address I get via dhcp from the ISP and
it varies but is in the 69.19.x.x range.
Mike
--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life
in the universe are pointed away from Earth?


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Re: Towards an instructive minimalist intall of Openbox

2014-08-10 Thread Brian

On Sun 10 Aug 2014 at 10:46:56 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

[Snip}

 What should I be reading to understand:
   1. what would be minimal set of programs to install?

minimal can mean different things to different people and different
things to the same person at different times. Narrowing down your needs
would help.

But to start you off:

1. Install Wheezy with nothing selected at the tasksel stage, That is,
   no DE, no print server etc.

2. Install xorg and openbox with the --no-install-recommends option.

In terms of minimal disk space this can be modified to lower the amount
used. How functional the system is for you you would have to judge.

   2. what scripts get run after a cold or warm boot?
  (I've discovered I know less about that than I thought I did.)

The same in both cases I would have thought.



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Re: Setup a Nvidia multiseat

2014-08-10 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom


Floris wrote:
Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:49:38 +0200 schreef Hugo Vanwoerkom 
hvw59...@care2.com:


...
 'Tis amazing. I am going to have to try this because I have the 
hardware lying around. Any further links are welcome. Thanks!




I forgot to ask: is systemd also necessary?

Hugo


you need loginctl, so the answer is yes, you need systemd

success,



Right. I found your bug 711351.

Hugo


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Re: Towards an instructive minimalist intall of Openbox

2014-08-10 Thread Joe

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 10:46:56 -0500
Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote:

 My goal: understand Debian from a fairly low level on up
 Environment: a laptop dedicated exclusively as a learning environment
 Resources:   complete DVD sets for Squeeze and Wheezy (totally 
 isolated from internet ;)
 
 History:
 When initially moving from Windows to Debian, installed Squeeze 
 with Gnome2. A generally satisfactory experience though standard 
 install had programs I would never use and was missing essential 
 programs. I was tweaking it when I obtained Wheezy.
 
 Gnome3 is an ugly non-starter. Investigating relative merits of 
 DE's led to understanding difference between a DE and a WM (thank 
 you to list for educational posts).
 
 What should I be reading to understand:
1. what would be minimal set of programs to install?

It depends how enthusiastic you are. I tend to make a netinstall of
stable (from CD, you don't need the Net until you want to expand the
system). When the task selection page comes up, I untick everything
except the system utilities. That will leave me with a non-X
installation which can be built on. It doesn't contain sudo, which you
may want, and I also install mc, because I like it. Generally I'm
aiming for unstable, so I do a dist-upgrade at this point, where a
minimal amount of time has been wasted in downloading stable packages
which I'm now throwing away. You presumably would take a different path.

It is possible that the minimal non-X netinstall still contains
packages which you may not want, I've never tried cutting it down
smaller than this as I will ultimately be aiming for an X-based
installation, and it doesn't seem worth trying to save a few tens of K
here. Pretty much anything that might be removed here will be
reinstalled when X is loaded. Life's too short.

I would say that if you trust the Debian dependencies, you now ask for
your X environment of choice, and it should pull in all the X system
stuff without explicitly asking for it. If you only want a window
manager, just ask for that.

After this, you install the applications you actually want, and try not
to scream too much when you see what else they want to bring with them.
It's nice to use the program you feel most comfortable with, but you
need to think carefully when you want a 300k utility that needs 100MB of
libraries from a DE you will never use... it's not just the disc space,
which isn't worth worrying about, nowadays you never know what
interactions will occur.

Linux is becoming as 'integrated' as Windows, and 'integrated' is a
dirty word to a programmer, for good reasons. I currently have boot
error messages from an 'at-spi2-registryd', which is apparently a daemon
associated with 'assistive technologies', which I currently neither
want nor need but which the Gnome developers have decreed must run on
my system if I want to use Evince or Nautilus, and I do.

2. what scripts get run after a cold or warm boot?
   (I've discovered I know less about that than I thought I did.)

How long was that piece of string?

You might want to pause here and look at the discussion going on about
systemd. The next stable will almost certainly have it, so you might as
well learn to live with it now. One of its advantages is that it will
give you very detailed logs about what it's doing during boot, though
you have to find out how to tickle it properly. There's certainly not
much point in learning everything there is to know about sysvinit, only
to have it become a relic in a year's time.

Your project has been going on for some time, and I can't remember if
Linux From Scratch has been mentioned. I built a couple at least ten
years ago, while the automated build systems were still vapourware.
Apart from the enormous drudgery of compiling a huge number of
programs, it did demonstrate exactly what a minimal Linux needed to do.
It was necessary to write the init scripts, and I recall later using the
template to make an iptables pseudo-daemon, which I still use. You can
learn quite a bit just by going through the instructions, without
actually making anything.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Irony

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 10:51:30 +0400
Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hi.
 
 On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:26:40 -0400
 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
 
  Within months of my switch, oops, here comes systemd.
 
 Consider switching to the Debian/kFreeBSD. It's the same Debian, yet
 there won't be no systemd in the foreseeable future.
 
 Reco

Is Debian/kFreeBSD ready for prime time yet? Can you install all the
same software as with regular Debian? Is there a network install for
Debian/kFreeBSD?

This might be a great alternative. I would have switched to FreeBSD
years ago, except they are always changing their package manager,
which often requires knowledge of an undocumented uri, and I've found
that sometimes using both Ports and their package manager of the month
can screw up the whole installation. But that's not an issue if I have
the Debian package manager.

Thanks for the info. 

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: Disk space usage

Jörg-Volker Peetz a écrit :
 
 And what is the meaning of Go?

Giga-octet.


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Re: Irony

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:37:10 +0100
Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sunday 10 August 2014 08:37:24 Slavko wrote:
  I consider these posts as not OT.
 
 No-one said that they were OT.  Merely that this list is about Debian
 in general, not only systemd, and the subject has been done to death.

Which is the whole point, isn't it. About half the posters on the
subject view systemd with something between suspicion and hatred.
That's very unusual, and indicates to me that systemd could turn into a
problem and an embarrassment.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: Irony

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 10:26:22 +0200
Tony van der Hoff t...@vanderhoff.org wrote:

 On 09/08/14 22:26, Steve Litt wrote:
  Hi all,
  
  Some of the reasons I switched my desktop from Ubuntu to Debian
  were:
  
  1) To do more config by editor and less by magical binary program.
  
  2) To get rid of gratuitous boot gunge (in this case Plymouth)
  
  3) To get closer to the Unix Philosophy
  
  Within months of my switch, oops, here comes systemd.
  
  Sometimes, you just have to laugh.
 
 Why not have another go at starting a contentious thread?
 
 I am rapidly gaining the impression that slitt is no more than a
 (rather clever) troll, and as such should not be fed.

First, thanks for calling me clever.

Yeah, I kind of see your point in calling me a troll: I've basically
stated the same set of objections, repeatedly, in several different
threads. I have a philosophical problem with systemd, I suspect it will
cause problems, my fallback is OpenBSD (or maybe Debian/kFreeBSD,
thanks Reco), but I've said these things repeatedly already. So I'll try
to hold back until either systemd turns out to be no problem, in which
case I'll post saying I was wrong, or it's a problem and I post saying
I told you so.

And thank you for not calling the subject OT.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: Suppressing pushd output

2014-08-10 Thread Bob Proulx

Tony van der Hoff wrote:
 Unfortunately the pushd/popd generate a lot of (mostly) unwanted output,
 with no apparent way of suppressing it.

Do you have CDPATH set?  If CDPATH is set then there is ambiguity over
where the cd actually went since it may be one of the CDPATH
components.  If so the shell outputs the directory that was actually
found.

If you don't need CDPATH then try unsetting it.

Bob



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Re: End of hypocrisy ?

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 06:35:54 -0400
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:


 Olav Vitters, a Gnome guy who always argues on behalf of Gnome/systemd
 on debian-devel@ (I don't think that he's involved in Debian in any
 other way), has said on his blog it seems eventually GNOME will head
 to be systemd and Linux-only 

Wow, in which case Gnumeric and Gimp won't work on *BSD, and my friends
with Windows or Mac won't be able to use them either. 

I'm only hoping when he says Gnome, he doesn't mean anything compiled
with GTK.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: End of hypocrisy ?

2014-08-10 Thread Erwan David

Le 10/08/2014 19:23, Steve Litt a écrit :
 On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 06:35:54 -0400
 Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:


 Olav Vitters, a Gnome guy who always argues on behalf of Gnome/systemd
 on debian-devel@ (I don't think that he's involved in Debian in any
 other way), has said on his blog it seems eventually GNOME will head
 to be systemd and Linux-only 
 Wow, in which case Gnumeric and Gimp won't work on *BSD, and my friends
 with Windows or Mac won't be able to use them either. 

 I'm only hoping when he says Gnome, he doesn't mean anything compiled
 with GTK.



I think I read somewhere that GTK 3 was meant for gnome and gnome only.

If gnome is linux only is not a problem for me. The problem is if linux
becomes gnome only.


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Re: Quiet Bootups

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:36:43 +0300
David Baron d_ba...@012.net.il wrote:

 With Grub, I did not see that endless stream of text pouring on the
 screen to rapidly to read.
 
 Because I (presumably) know how to configure it, I have gone back to
 lilo. Now have all that text back. Is there an append= or lilo.conf
 entry to control/eliminate the text playback?

How's LILO working out for you so far (excluding the text stream,
which someone already gave a solution for)? I assuming your boot disk is
not a GUID disk, right?

The next time I reinstall, I'm moving to LILO too. LOL, but me, I love
that text stream, so no append=quiet for me. :-)

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: Suppressing pushd output

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 08/10/2014 01:20 PM, Bob Proulx wrote:

 Tony van der Hoff wrote:
 
 Unfortunately the pushd/popd generate a lot of (mostly) unwanted
 output, with no apparent way of suppressing it.
 
 Do you have CDPATH set?  If CDPATH is set then there is ambiguity
 over where the cd actually went since it may be one of the CDPATH
 components.  If so the shell outputs the directory that was actually
 found.
 
 If you don't need CDPATH then try unsetting it.

Is CDPATH used at all by pushd / popd? I don't see any indication of
that in bash(1), but since cd itself isn't involved here AFAICT,
bringing up CDPATH wouldn't seem to make sense otherwise.

- --
   The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Re: Setup a Nvidia multiseat

Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 19:02:42 +0200 schreef Hugo Vanwoerkom  
hvw59...@care2.com:



Floris wrote:
Op Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:49:38 +0200 schreef Hugo Vanwoerkom  
hvw59...@care2.com:

 ...
 'Tis amazing. I am going to have to try this because I have the  
hardware lying around. Any further links are welcome. Thanks!




I forgot to ask: is systemd also necessary?

Hugo


you need loginctl, so the answer is yes, you need systemd
 success,



Right. I found your bug 711351.

Hugo



That bug is already solved. systemd version 44-11 doesn't had multiseat  
support. Luckily Debian testing/ sid has version 208. Also you need  
xserver 1.16. This version added the MatchSeat option to the xorg.d  
config file.


success,

floris


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Re: Bug#736258: acpid won't stop, won't upgrade (systemd) - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=736258

2014-08-10 Thread Russ Allbery

Sorry about the delay in responding.

Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org writes:

 Large time outs can cause bad side-efects on surprising ways.  If the
 socket is down, you get an immediate connection refused reply, which
 short-circuits the time out.

 As this is a generic feature, we could be talking about openldap, or the
 syslog daemon, or mysql, or a game server, or a DNS server...  The point
 is: we don't know.

This point and the other points in your message are well-taken.

To take a step back, I think this is a fair summary of the discussion.
Please let me know if you disagree:

1. We both agree that package maintainers should be able to choose between
   leaving the socket open while restarting the service or closing both
   the socket and the service.  In many cases, the former will be more
   appropriate and safer since no connections will be lost, but the latter
   is better for upgrades that could take some time or where connections
   shouldn't be queued for whatever reason.

2. The default behavior in Debian for many years has been to stop both the
   service and the socket.  We don't know what may be relying on this, or
   what the consequences of not stopping the socket may be for a
   particular service.  In *most* cases, in a typical fast upgrade, it's
   probably beneficial, but that may not always be the case.

3. You would prefer to start with preserving the existing behavior, and
   then add the option for package maintainers to switch to the new
   behavior of keeping the socket open if desired.  My inclination was to
   take the opposite approach since I think keeping the socket open is
   better in the common case.

4. In the absence of an implementation of the ability to choose behavior,
   you would prefer to keep the previous default of stopping both the
   service and the socket, and don't believe package maintainers are
   typically thinking about this when converting their packages to systemd
   and adding socket files.  There is some evidence to support this belief
   given the bug that started this discussion.

If that's correct, I think there are two key things that we're missing:

1. Some way for maintainers to select whether or not to stop the socket
   when using invoke-rc.d stop during an upgrade.

2. Education for package maintainers about this issue and the tradeoffs
   involved.

I feel guilty about the second, since this is exactly the sort of topic
that should be covered in Policy documentation for systemd integration,
which I had planned on working on before my day job exploded.

I think you've convinced me that the approach of stopping a socket by the
same name when stopping a service in invoke-rc.d stop (which means
starting it again with invoke-rc.d start) is the safer approach.  At this
point in the transition and release cycle, I think erring on the side of
taking the safer approach at the cost of some features is best.  I think
everyone agrees that there should be some way to control this at the
invoke-rc.d layer for package maintainers to manipulate.

This is clearly something that needs some further attention for good
integration in the longer term.

 I apologise if I sounded pushy, it was not my intention.

Thank you very much for the gracious apology.

-- 
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Re: Towards an instructive minimalist intall of Openbox