Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Kelly Clowers kelly.clow...@gmail.comwrote: For me, it is only partly about my hardware. It is also about my data. I have backups, but I didn't used to, and I would just as soon not have to go through a restore process. And even a simple power outage that wouldn't harm hardware might at least produce the need for a fsck (not as much of a problem with ext4, but again I would rather avoid the situation entirely). I figured I would pipe up here, because I have a kind of different perspective here. I have a 42U data center rack in my basement, and about half a dozen really old servers. They aren't really worth much from a financial standpoint, but at the same time, I use them as a sort of test lab. and I have a Tripp Lite 1000VA and an APC BackUPS 1000 (just replaced the batteries) in the rack. I also have a BackUPS 350 for my workstation. It's not about the cost of the hardware (as I said, almost everything is 32 bit PIII/P4 class hardware that has little to no value in most business environments (which is how I came by it, by and large), but my data? Thats a whole nother kettle of fish. It may only be important to me, but the point is that it *is* important to me. --b
[OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT), Stan Hoeppner wrote: Anyway, the way I've always looked at the residential side of the UPS debate is to ask myself this question: Is it worth spending $100 to surge and power backup protect my $1000 PC and printer? For me that answer is an emphatic yes. You make a strong case. But I come from a different perspective than you do. I don't have any new hardware at home. The only piece of equipment I bought new was a 4-port Ethernet router which cost me about $20, I think. Almost everything else was either given away or thrown away or sold used for a low price. The most expensive computer I own cost me somewhere around $300, I think. I bought it used 2 years ago, and it's market value today is probably around $150-200. All my monitors (with the exception of those built-in to laptops) are thrown-away CRTs. In other words, my home hardware collection consists almost exclusively of dumpster-diver specials. How much money am I willing to spend to protect my hardware? Probably not as much as you are. Still, it would be nice to have. Maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list. :-) Oh, wait. I did buy my powered speakers new -- about 15 years ago. ;-) -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/815778928.87815.1272556487107.javamail.r...@md01.wow.synacor.com
Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
On Thursday 29 April 2010 10:54:47 Stephen Powell wrote: On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT), Stan Hoeppner wrote: Is it worth spending $100 to surge and power backup protect my $1000 PC and printer? For me that answer is an emphatic yes. You make a strong case. But I come from a different perspective than you do. I don't have any new hardware at home. The only piece of equipment I bought new was a 4-port Ethernet router which cost me about $20, I think. Almost everything else was either given away or thrown away or sold used for a low price. Oh, wait. I did buy my powered speakers new -- about 15 years ago. ;-) A UPS probably won't last that long (the battery isn't designed for that AFAIK). However it is something that isn't replaced often, since power has been fairly standard (V / Hz / Plug shape and polarity) for a while. For those reasons and more, a working UPS is rather hard to find when dumpster-diving. Also, clean power should make your existing hardware last longer. That might be a big plus since you may be the type that never disposes of working hardware. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 08:54, Stephen Powell zlinux...@wowway.com wrote: On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT), Stan Hoeppner wrote: Anyway, the way I've always looked at the residential side of the UPS debate is to ask myself this question: Is it worth spending $100 to surge and power backup protect my $1000 PC and printer? For me that answer is an emphatic yes. You make a strong case. But I come from a different perspective than you do. I don't have any new hardware at home. The only piece of equipment I bought new was a 4-port Ethernet router which cost me about $20, I think. Almost everything else was either given away or thrown away or sold used for a low price. The most expensive computer I own cost me somewhere around $300, I think. I bought it used 2 years ago, and it's market value today is probably around $150-200. All my monitors (with the exception of those built-in to laptops) are thrown-away CRTs. In other words, my home hardware collection consists almost exclusively of dumpster-diver specials. How much money am I willing to spend to protect my hardware? Probably not as much as you are. Still, it would be nice to have. Maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list. :-) Oh, wait. I did buy my powered speakers new -- about 15 years ago. ;-) For me, it is only partly about my hardware. It is also about my data. I have backups, but I didn't used to, and I would just as soon not have to go through a restore process. And even a simple power outage that wouldn't harm hardware might at least produce the need for a fsck (not as much of a problem with ext4, but again I would rather avoid the situation entirely). Furthermore most almost all power outages here are very brief, and I end up not having to shutdown at all, which is just pure convenience. For me, my Back-UPS XS 1000 was one of my best computer-related purchases. Cheers, Kelly Clowers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/i2y1840f6971004291007xb13cdd63k17ced5dc429d...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
Kelly Clowers put forth on 4/29/2010 12:07 PM: Furthermore most almost all power outages here are very brief, and I end up not having to shutdown at all, which is just pure convenience. For me, my Back-UPS XS 1000 was one of my best computer-related purchases. I've got an old APC RM1400NET in the bottom of my home rack backing just one server at the moment, a rarely used CRT, and my comms gear. I get about an hour out of it during a total outage. I bought it used from a local off lease equipment reseller/liquidator. Gave just over $100 USD for it. The battery pack lasted 6 months. Bought a replacement pack from batteries.com for a little over $100 with shipping. I've got over 4 years on the current battery pack. Average lifespan on the 1400 pack is 5-7 years depending on the number and duration of inverter cycles. As with you, this is one of the smartest hardware purchases I ever made. The electronics and electrical parts in UPSes very rarely fail, so as long as you replace batteries every 5 years or so you'd got reliable power backup, and cheap--$20 per year basically for batteries. This level of power (and piece of mind) protection costs less per year than one trip to the movie theater to see Avatar. I've got an equally old MinuteMan 650 floor model backing my home workstation. Again I purchased this one used from a liquidator (different one in this case) for around $40 back in 1998. I've replaced the battery once after 6 years and am about ready to replace it again. The battery for this one runs around $40. Today you can buy a 700kva class consumer UPS for $100. If the battery lasts you 5 years, you've paid $20/year for power/surge and data protection. Not to mention convenience. I can't imagine ever going without a UPS, whether server or workstation. Laptops are great because, for all practical purposes, you get a free UPS built in. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bd9ce86.90...@hardwarefreak.com
RE: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
Original Message From: zlinux...@wowway.com To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: RE: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:54:47 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT), Stan Hoeppner wrote: Anyway, the way I've always looked at the residential side of the UPS debate is to ask myself this question: Is it worth spending $100 to surge and power backup protect my $1000 PC and printer? For me that answer is an emphatic yes. You make a strong case. But I come from a different perspective than you do. I don't have any new hardware at home. The only piece of equipment I bought new was a 4-port Ethernet router which cost me about $20, I think. Almost everything else was either given away or thrown away or sold used for a low price. The most expensive computer I own cost me somewhere around $300, I think. I bought it used 2 years ago, and it's market value today is probably around $150-200. All my monitors (with the exception of those built-in to laptops) are thrown-away CRTs. In other words, my home hardware collection consists almost exclusively of dumpster-diver specials. How much money am I willing to spend to protect my hardware? Probably not as much as you are. Still, it would be nice to have. Maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list. :-) Oh, wait. I did buy my powered speakers new -- about 15 years ago. ;-) -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- Also I might have an issue with Stan's use of AND. While surge protection of printers is a good idea, most UPS vendors advise against connecting the printer to the UPS for power protection Larry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/815778928.87815.1272556487107.JavaM ail.r...@md01.wow.synacor.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/380-220104429192617...@netptc.net
Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
ow...@netptc.net wrote: Original Message From: zlinux...@wowway.com To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: RE: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:54:47 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT), Stan Hoeppner wrote: Anyway, the way I've always looked at the residential side of the UPS debate is to ask myself this question: Is it worth spending $100 to surge and power backup protect my $1000 PC and printer? For me that answer is an emphatic yes. Same point of view here. Once upon a time, I had some pretty expensive computer hardware, and an overvoltage botched the motherboard and the CPU. I had no UPS. I have an UPS for 3 or 4 years now, and everything is pretty fine. Even if thunder sounds, I stay in front of the computer without any harm to the hardware. But it has a cost. Everything is a compromise. If your hardware is cheap, and that it is quite unlikely to thunder around your house, I would suggest you not to buy an UPS, especially if your revenues are low-income. If, on the other hand, your hardware is expensive ([inclusive] or that you have low-income revenues), you'd better buy an UPS. It really worths it. But there is not only the thunder. Here, in Belgium, it sometimes happens to have power outages, without any information before. Consequently, if you have no UPS, everything is directly powered off, and it is not an interesting thing for both your hardware and what you are currently working on. With the other computer which gave up the gost, I also lost some part of a report I was working for. No doubt I was angry. -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
On Thursday 29 April 2010 14:26:17 ow...@netptc.net wrote: Original Message From: zlinux...@wowway.com To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: RE: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:54:47 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT), Stan Hoeppner wrote: Is it worth spending $100 to power backup protect my $1000 PC and printer? Also I might have an issue with Stan's use of AND. While surge protection of printers is a good idea, most UPS vendors advise against connecting the printer to the UPS for power protection It's not because the printer makes the power unclean or otherwise interferes with the correct functioning of the UPS while mains is working. They recommend against connecting printers because printers draw a large amount of power, dramatically reducing the time the UPS can maintain power to the system if the mains fails. Also, (1) I've never actually needed my printer during an outage and (2) printers generally don't suffer the same ill effects from sudden power loss that file systems do. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:48:03 -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Thursday 29 April 2010 14:26:17 owens wrote: Also I might have an issue with Stan's use of AND. While surge protection of printers is a good idea, most UPS vendors advise against connecting the printer to the UPS for power protection It's not because the printer makes the power unclean or otherwise interferes with the correct functioning of the UPS while mains is working. They recommend against connecting printers because printers draw a large amount of power, dramatically reducing the time the UPS can maintain power to the system if the mains fails. Also, (1) I've never actually needed my printer during an outage and (2) printers generally don't suffer the same ill effects from sudden power loss that file systems do. He, he, he... Agree. Someone tried to attach a mid-size laser printer to a UPS? (please, do not):-) I remember the days when I (innocently) did so and as soon as the printer was powered on, the UPS unit (APC Smart 1000VA) was inmediatly shutdown... and also all of the devices attached to it (the printer loaded more power than the UPS could hold). Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.29.19.56...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: It's not because the printer makes the power unclean or otherwise interferes with the correct functioning of the UPS while mains is working. They recommend against connecting printers because printers draw a large amount of power, dramatically reducing the time the UPS can maintain power to the system if the mains fails. Correct. Also, (1) I've never actually needed my printer during an outage Generally, people don't. Only the minimum minimorum (strict minimum) needs to be connected to the UPS' electrical outlets. Mine has two rows of electrical outlets: one which is `only' secured, and the other which is connected to the battery. The best idea is to not succumb to the tentation of plugging every possible electrical device into the battery-connected electrical outlets. But reasonable thoughts need to be taken into account in this case. I saw people having the screen plugged in the battery, but the main unit being plugged into the not-battery row. This is complete nonsense, and a total lack of commonsense. and (2) printers generally don't suffer the same ill effects from sudden power loss that file systems do. Sure. But scanners do. -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [OT] Home UPS (was Filesystem recommendations)
ow...@netptc.net put forth on 4/29/2010 2:26 PM: Also I might have an issue with Stan's use of AND. While surge protection of printers is a good idea, most UPS vendors advise against connecting the printer to the UPS for power protection Larry Most inkjets on a UPS are fine (for small jobs), lasers no--too much current draw heating up the fuser. I've never printed during a power outage but I could if I really needed to. The odds of that are terribly low though. Them main reason for plugging all my equipment into the UPS is that the MOVs in UPSes are usually much larger and of better quality than those found in surge protector power strips. For those who do not know, an MOV or metal oxide varistor, is the device that sucks up the excess voltage and current that frequently enters lines during a lighting strike. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bda3c34@hardwarefreak.com
