subject:"GCC"


On 07/22/2018 02:20 PM, Joe wrote:

...snip...


At the level of the Arduino, and what it is used for, the C required
isn't going to differ too much from Python. You're mostly going to
be bit-banging. If you know one modern procedural language, you can at
least potter around in others quite easily.


Judging by what others are saying plus what you say, it looks like 
sticking to C would actually be easier than trying to get it to work 
with Python.


...snip...


That's ok. I am getting good enough in Python (and have made my own
libraries at times) that if it's not there, I might be able to create
one. Thing is, Raspberry Pi seems more like a computer, rather than a
way to experiment controlling things (safely) like electronic
circuits on breadboards for the fun of it.


It is indeed. A Pi running a Debian desktop is painfully slow, but it
works. What it's surprisingly good at is running streaming software for
Internet TV, the system is optimised for high-definition HDMI output.
Google raspberry pi tv. You won't do that on an Arduino.


Good thing I don't have a need for running streaming software or 
anything like that. So that's not a problem.


...snip...


The kit comes with a LCD display, actually, and tutorials and
examples on using it. That I know I'll find interesting too. Ever
since I saw a video about LCD displays on a "The 8-bit guy" YouTube
video, I been wanting to toy around with those things.


Wait till you've had a bit of practice with them before you try writing
a driver for a new LCD display. The documentation for them is skimpy,
and you may need to guess a bit. I've made a few for the PIC 18F
series, which is comparable to this Atmel series.


I think what I'll be doing is just what is in the tutorials, at first. 
And toying around with what they have available. Looks like they already 
have a library built for the LCD display (it's a monochrome 20 x 40 or 
something like that) and some sample code on how to use it.



I am thinking this is going to be quite an interesting and fun hobby.



Certainly. My only work with the Arduino was using one as a graphics
co-processor for a PIC project to drive a 320x240 touch screen for a
camera control panel. There was a suitable Arduino library but not one
for the PIC, and time was in short supply. One drawback to the Arduino
here is that it doesn't have a lot of memory, so the screen fonts were
a bit chunky.


That's another thing I am noticing but a friend tells me I really won't 
need a lot of memory just for tinkering around with things. They do have 
a shield with an SD card reader/writer for it but my friend tells me 
that doesn't expand how much memory is available to store programs, but 
would only come in handy if you do a lot of writing of data or something.


Well, I guess you good folks got me straightened out. It looks like I 
won't need anything but what comes with the kit and the downloads to do 
the tinkering and will have to do it in C. I'll just forget about Python 
I guess. Not too big a problem.


I'm also amazed that Debian doesn't have much for the Arduino in the repo.

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-22 Thread Joe

On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 11:34:33 -0400
cyaiplexys  wrote:

> On 07/22/2018 11:13 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > On 22.07.18 10:29, cyaiplexys wrote:  
> >> I think my mindset also came from my days of trying to program the
> >> WowWee RoboSapien RS Media (ARM/Linux with Java). That was like a
> >> fully programmable computer and robot all in one.  
> > 
> > Then the full arduino environment will be more comfortable than raw
> > C on bare iron. While I program AVRs, including the ATmega328P used
> > on most arduino boards, in C and assembler, I understand that the
> > arduino environment provides a high level programming interface
> > which allows e.g. artists to write "sketches" to perform real-time
> > tasks. 

This is the great strength of the Arduino. Run the IDE on Windows or
Linux (the program format is the same on both), select the board you
have, plug it into a serial port (USB/serial chip these days) and
you're away. The Arduino board has a built-in bootloader, meaning you
don't need a specialist programmer, just a serial port.
 
> 
> After watching some YouTube tutorials, I am starting to see that. The 
> IDE isn't "real" C in that you're not directly compiling using gcc
> from the command line. It does everything for you behind the scenes.
> Not used to that since my old Windows days.
> 
> > There is quite a bit of peripheral hardware on an ATmega328P, from
> > serial USART, through timer/counters useful for e.g. PWM motor
> > control, through multi-channel 10 bit Analogue to digital
> > converter. The chip datasheet is 440 pages in length, and learning
> > to initialise and drive the on-chip paraphernalia is a non-trivial
> > task. The arduino environment provides a library of drivers AIUI,
> > to allow programming at the application level, rather than writing
> > your own drivers¹. It won't necessarily give you the last
> > microsecond of real-time performance, but it should be a low-pain
> > introduction. (Must be some reason for its popularity, I figure.)  
> 
> I got the starter kit with the Arduino UNO R3. Not knowing what that 
> means yet (I need to read into that) I am assuming that ATmega328P is 
> the Arduino MEGA and not the Arduino UNO R3? Or is it the CPU in all 
> Arduinos? I'll have to look into that. I did find out a bit after my 
> first post in this thread that Arduino isn't and ARM processor.
> 
> >> I don't mind using C, but am pretty bad at it. Maybe this is the
> >> time to finally get better at it.  
> > 
> > Learning two things at once is for self-driven stoics only, at
> > least if they're both non-trivial. Beginning with a friendly
> > development environment and application framework, complete with
> > examples which could be downloaded and used for tutorial purposes,
> > avoids the pain of a lot of stuff failing not because of coding
> > errors, but because not yet grokking the 440 pages of hardware spec
> > left one bit in that other mode enabling register unset, so it'll
> > never work until you find the clue in the doco.
> > 
> > There must be an arduino ML or forum, which would be a sanity saver.
> > Once master of that, then there's the AVRfreaks forum when the more
> > serious C journey begins. 

At the level of the Arduino, and what it is used for, the C required
isn't going to differ too much from Python. You're mostly going to
be bit-banging. If you know one modern procedural language, you can at
least potter around in others quite easily. 
> 
> I'll have to look into these forums and find one to join. I find
> forums and lists, etc. to be indispensable when learning new stuff.
> And also even if I am good with using something (like I am with
> Debian), still having some community based help had been very useful.
> 
> > OK, there are one or two arduinos with ARM chips, but I don't count
> > that as original arduino.  
> 
> Maybe that was the source of my confusion. But I think I'm sure that
> the Elegoo Super Starter Kit's Arduino UNO R3 is *not* ARM. They say
> it's 100% compatible with original Arduino so I assume it's got the
> same processor as the original.
> 
> > A raspberry Pi, running linux, would be a more familiar environment
> > by the sound of it. No problem running python there, but would
> > there be python I/O libraries?  

The 'Pi' comes from Python, which is its intended primary user
language. Peripherals intended for the Pi will come with Python
drivers, or at least Python interfaces.

> 
> That's ok. I am getting good enough in Python (and have made my own 
> libraries at times) that if it's not there, I might be able to create 
> one. Thing is, Raspberry Pi seems more like

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-22 Thread Cindy-Sue Causey

On 7/21/18, cyaiplexys  wrote:
> On 07/21/2018 07:36 PM, deloptes wrote:
>> Hi, how old are you?
>> The way you wrote is supposing you are New Gen kid.
>
> Why thank you! :) Actually, physically I'm over half a century old. I
> just try to keep a young mind. I'm a New Gen kid to all this new tech
> stuff though.


The word "tinker" was the tell I picked up on there. As it turns out,
that was right on the money. :D

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?


On 07/22/2018 11:13 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:

On 22.07.18 10:29, cyaiplexys wrote:

I think my mindset also came from my days of trying to program the WowWee
RoboSapien RS Media (ARM/Linux with Java). That was like a fully
programmable computer and robot all in one.


Then the full arduino environment will be more comfortable than raw C on
bare iron. While I program AVRs, including the ATmega328P used on most
arduino boards, in C and assembler, I understand that the arduino
environment provides a high level programming interface which allows
e.g. artists to write "sketches" to perform real-time tasks.


After watching some YouTube tutorials, I am starting to see that. The 
IDE isn't "real" C in that you're not directly compiling using gcc from 
the command line. It does everything for you behind the scenes. Not used 
to that since my old Windows days.



There is quite a bit of peripheral hardware on an ATmega328P, from
serial USART, through timer/counters useful for e.g. PWM motor control,
through multi-channel 10 bit Analogue to digital converter. The chip
datasheet is 440 pages in length, and learning to initialise and drive
the on-chip paraphernalia is a non-trivial task. The arduino environment
provides a library of drivers AIUI, to allow programming at the
application level, rather than writing your own drivers¹. It won't
necessarily give you the last microsecond of real-time performance, but
it should be a low-pain introduction. (Must be some reason for its
popularity, I figure.)


I got the starter kit with the Arduino UNO R3. Not knowing what that 
means yet (I need to read into that) I am assuming that ATmega328P is 
the Arduino MEGA and not the Arduino UNO R3? Or is it the CPU in all 
Arduinos? I'll have to look into that. I did find out a bit after my 
first post in this thread that Arduino isn't and ARM processor.



I don't mind using C, but am pretty bad at it. Maybe this is the time to
finally get better at it.


Learning two things at once is for self-driven stoics only, at least if
they're both non-trivial. Beginning with a friendly development
environment and application framework, complete with examples which
could be downloaded and used for tutorial purposes, avoids the pain of a
lot of stuff failing not because of coding errors, but because not yet
grokking the 440 pages of hardware spec left one bit in that other mode
enabling register unset, so it'll never work until you find the clue in
the doco.

There must be an arduino ML or forum, which would be a sanity saver.
Once master of that, then there's the AVRfreaks forum when the more
serious C journey begins.


I'll have to look into these forums and find one to join. I find forums 
and lists, etc. to be indispensable when learning new stuff. And also 
even if I am good with using something (like I am with Debian), still 
having some community based help had been very useful.



OK, there are one or two arduinos with ARM chips, but I don't count that
as original arduino.


Maybe that was the source of my confusion. But I think I'm sure that the 
Elegoo Super Starter Kit's Arduino UNO R3 is *not* ARM. They say it's 
100% compatible with original Arduino so I assume it's got the same 
processor as the original.



A raspberry Pi, running linux, would be a more familiar environment by
the sound of it. No problem running python there, but would there be
python I/O libraries?


That's ok. I am getting good enough in Python (and have made my own 
libraries at times) that if it's not there, I might be able to create 
one. Thing is, Raspberry Pi seems more like a computer, rather than a 
way to experiment controlling things (safely) like electronic circuits 
on breadboards for the fun of it.



¹ OK, drivers for e.g. 2x20 character LCDs can be found on the net, but
where there's an arduino LCD "shield" (plug-in daughterboard), there'll
be an arduino driver ready to use.

Erik


The kit comes with a LCD display, actually, and tutorials and examples 
on using it. That I know I'll find interesting too. Ever since I saw a 
video about LCD displays on a "The 8-bit guy" YouTube video, I been 
wanting to toy around with those things.


I am thinking this is going to be quite an interesting and fun hobby.

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-22 Thread Erik Christiansen

On 22.07.18 10:29, cyaiplexys wrote:
> I think my mindset also came from my days of trying to program the WowWee
> RoboSapien RS Media (ARM/Linux with Java). That was like a fully
> programmable computer and robot all in one.

Then the full arduino environment will be more comfortable than raw C on
bare iron. While I program AVRs, including the ATmega328P used on most
arduino boards, in C and assembler, I understand that the arduino
environment provides a high level programming interface which allows
e.g. artists to write "sketches" to perform real-time tasks.

There is quite a bit of peripheral hardware on an ATmega328P, from
serial USART, through timer/counters useful for e.g. PWM motor control,
through multi-channel 10 bit Analogue to digital converter. The chip
datasheet is 440 pages in length, and learning to initialise and drive
the on-chip paraphernalia is a non-trivial task. The arduino environment
provides a library of drivers AIUI, to allow programming at the
application level, rather than writing your own drivers¹. It won't
necessarily give you the last microsecond of real-time performance, but
it should be a low-pain introduction. (Must be some reason for its
popularity, I figure.)

> I don't mind using C, but am pretty bad at it. Maybe this is the time to
> finally get better at it.

Learning two things at once is for self-driven stoics only, at least if
they're both non-trivial. Beginning with a friendly development
environment and application framework, complete with examples which
could be downloaded and used for tutorial purposes, avoids the pain of a
lot of stuff failing not because of coding errors, but because not yet
grokking the 440 pages of hardware spec left one bit in that other mode
enabling register unset, so it'll never work until you find the clue in
the doco.

There must be an arduino ML or forum, which would be a sanity saver.
Once master of that, then there's the AVRfreaks forum when the more
serious C journey begins.

OK, there are one or two arduinos with ARM chips, but I don't count that
as original arduino.

A raspberry Pi, running linux, would be a more familiar environment by
the sound of it. No problem running python there, but would there be
python I/O libraries?

¹ OK, drivers for e.g. 2x20 character LCDs can be found on the net, but
where there's an arduino LCD "shield" (plug-in daughterboard), there'll
be an arduino driver ready to use.

Erik

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

On 07/22/2018 06:20 AM, deloptes wrote:

cyaiplexys wrote:

Well, since I use Debian I assumed this would be a place to ask what to
get from the Debian repo that would help in achieving my goal. But you
do make a good point. I'll have to find some Arduino forums to ask some
questions in because I'm quite sure I'll have a lot of them.

Sure Arduino forums will be useful when you have specific Arduino questions.
Related to debian you have this page
https://wiki.debian.org/Arduino
It looks like it gives you the connection to the arduino board /dev/ttyACM0.

Next CPUs - IMO you definitely need to know for which CPU you develop code
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Products/Compare
but it could be that the IDE hides this.

Salt it with some background knowledge
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Foundations

It is not a one day exercise, but it may be fun.

>

I did AVR for a hobby. I bought few types of AVR chips a dev board, that I
had to soldier myself and a programmer (total cost ~ €25,-). It took me
some time to understand how the programmer is to be used with the board and
how it is intended to work on linux. I guess it was two weekends that I
spent reading and trying. Finally Enlightment was there and voila, I can
write, compile, flash and run the MCs. Altogether it spanned over 8 months
because of job and family. I think the total time spent was about 1 month
though.
So it depends on your level and skill. It might take months or hours, but at
the end you will be an expert.

When I get into these things, it might take me a few months to maybe 
even years to learn something new fully. And some things only take a 
weekend. Depends on what skills one needs to get going with it. I have 
35+ years programming experience in many different languages, and 
tinkered in electronics even as young as age 7. But the thing is, while 
I learned the basics (and when Google came around, Googled for stuff I 
didn't know that I needed to apply to a project), and even took a couple 
online courses in programming, I find it's a matter of use it or lose 
it. If I don't use it regularly (like I do with PHP, HTML, CSS, Perl, 
and Python in my job), then I tend to forget almost all I learned and 
kinda end up Googling for help with everything or looking up my code 
snippets and notes.

But at the same time, I enjoy tinkering with stuff, even if I might 
forget a year or two later. For my own hobbies, I just get curious about 
some of the "new" (I know this stuff has been around awhile) technology 
out there and like to see how it all works.

It might be also worth learning some C. 

I had done some C programming now and then (K & R C, ANSI C, Mix Power 
C, Borland C++, gcc, Visual C) and now anytime I do anything in C, I use 
gcc (and also valgrind, autotools, and I forgot what else I use but I 
use Kate for my editor for nearly everything and compile at command 
line). I still struggle with C because I don't use it much. However, I 
use a lot of stuff that has a similar structure to C such as perl and 
PHP. Funny thing is, I also learned Java but almost never use it!

I am not sure how python compiles low level code, but I guess it

> comes with overhead.

Python is a scripting language so natively it doesn't get compiled, 
really. To compile Python code to binary .so for like Python libraries 
(which is NOT required but there are some uses for doing so), I use a 
program called 'cython' (in the debian repos) that converts Python code 
to C code, then uses gcc to compile the resulting C code. Does a decent 
job of it for what I was doing.

> Given the amount of memory available, it might be wise to keep low
> footprint. Also you do not need to know a lot of details. Focus is on
> bitwise operations that are used when working with bits.

I actually haven't done much of that in *years* - since my OS9-Level II 
days. Got to brush up on that now.

> But there are very good examples, so if you have an understanding of
> the concept of C language, it shouldn't be a big challenge.
>
> good luck

Good to know. And thank you for all the really good information. I'm 
saving it for my "list to learn".

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?


On 07/22/2018 03:26 AM, Joe wrote:

Joe, please forgive me that I forgot to click "Reply to list". I have NO 
valid excuse why I keep doing stupid things like that. :(



On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 18:15:12 -0400
cyaiplexys  wrote:


I am getting the Elegoo Super Starter Kit (Arduino Uno R3) to tinker
with (it's on order as of when I'm writing this post).

I looked in the Debian repos for stuff on Arduino and didn't find
much (at least not of interest to me).

I did download the IDE from Elegoo and their tutorials and libraries.
But it's all in C/C++. While I do know C and C++ (to some extent),
I'm very bad at it (I admit to not using it very much, maybe once
every other blue moon and lately we haven't had any blue moons that
warranted using C).

I recently been doing stuff in Python (especially for work, which is
not Arduino related in any way). I am really getting to like Python.
I have created my own Python Libraries for other things (again
unrelated) and even compiled them to .so (binary) using the 'cython'
compiler.

While I could create C source of a Python script using cython, I
don't know how to compile the resulting C source and upload it to the
Arduino board. I would like to use gcc.

Is there a cross-platform compiler for Arduino and gcc that anyone
has had experience with that works or they can recommend?

Or some way to program in Python?




Sure if I was going there I wouldn't be after starting from here...

I've seen your later post, and you may indeed be overestimating what
the Arduino can do, it's basically a very well developed ecosystem for
a microcontroller, with lots of real-world interfaces available. Just
for tinkering with electronics, it's fine.

If you're after a more powerful (i.e. PC-like) tinkering gadget, you
might be better looking at the Raspberry Pi (Pi for Python) and the
subsequent similar devices. More expensive than the Arduino, but still
pretty cheap. The Pi runs more than one OS, but the Raspbian version of
Debian is probably most widely-used. The Pi also has a great many
interface devices available, and Python is the expected scripting
language.


I will probably end up with one of those sooner or later. A friend as a 
Pi (I thought Pi meant 3.14...)


I keep hearing about Arduino and Raspberry Pi and always wondered what 
they were all about. So I chose to experiment with Arduino first. I know 
*nothing* about either at the moment. Still in the learning, Googling, 
asking stupid questions, etc. phase. :)


I think my mindset also came from my days of trying to program the 
WowWee RoboSapien RS Media (ARM/Linux with Java). That was like a fully 
programmable computer and robot all in one.


I don't mind using C, but am pretty bad at it. Maybe this is the time to 
finally get better at it.

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-22 Thread deloptes

cyaiplexys wrote:

> Well, since I use Debian I assumed this would be a place to ask what to
> get from the Debian repo that would help in achieving my goal. But you
> do make a good point. I'll have to find some Arduino forums to ask some
> questions in because I'm quite sure I'll have a lot of them.

Sure Arduino forums will be useful when you have specific Arduino questions.
Related to debian you have this page
https://wiki.debian.org/Arduino
It looks like it gives you the connection to the arduino board /dev/ttyACM0.

Next CPUs - IMO you definitely need to know for which CPU you develop code
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Products/Compare
but it could be that the IDE hides this.

Salt it with some background knowledge
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Foundations

It is not a one day exercise, but it may be fun.

I did AVR for a hobby. I bought few types of AVR chips a dev board, that I
had to soldier myself and a programmer (total cost ~ €25,-). It took me
some time to understand how the programmer is to be used with the board and
how it is intended to work on linux. I guess it was two weekends that I
spent reading and trying. Finally Enlightment was there and voila, I can
write, compile, flash and run the MCs. Altogether it spanned over 8 months
because of job and family. I think the total time spent was about 1 month
though.
So it depends on your level and skill. It might take months or hours, but at
the end you will be an expert.
It might be also worth learning some C. I am not sure how python compiles
low level code, but I guess it comes with overhead. Given the amount of
memory available, it might be wise to keep low footprint. Also you do not
need to know a lot of details. Focus is on bitwise operations that are used
when working with bits. But there are very good examples, so if you have an
understanding of the concept of C language, it shouldn't be a big
challenge.

good luck

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-22 Thread Joe

On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 18:15:12 -0400
cyaiplexys  wrote:

> I am getting the Elegoo Super Starter Kit (Arduino Uno R3) to tinker 
> with (it's on order as of when I'm writing this post).
> 
> I looked in the Debian repos for stuff on Arduino and didn't find
> much (at least not of interest to me).
> 
> I did download the IDE from Elegoo and their tutorials and libraries. 
> But it's all in C/C++. While I do know C and C++ (to some extent),
> I'm very bad at it (I admit to not using it very much, maybe once
> every other blue moon and lately we haven't had any blue moons that
> warranted using C).
> 
> I recently been doing stuff in Python (especially for work, which is
> not Arduino related in any way). I am really getting to like Python.
> I have created my own Python Libraries for other things (again
> unrelated) and even compiled them to .so (binary) using the 'cython'
> compiler.
> 
> While I could create C source of a Python script using cython, I
> don't know how to compile the resulting C source and upload it to the
> Arduino board. I would like to use gcc.
> 
> Is there a cross-platform compiler for Arduino and gcc that anyone
> has had experience with that works or they can recommend?
> 
> Or some way to program in Python?
> 

Sure if I was going there I wouldn't be after starting from here...

I've seen your later post, and you may indeed be overestimating what
the Arduino can do, it's basically a very well developed ecosystem for
a microcontroller, with lots of real-world interfaces available. Just
for tinkering with electronics, it's fine.

If you're after a more powerful (i.e. PC-like) tinkering gadget, you
might be better looking at the Raspberry Pi (Pi for Python) and the
subsequent similar devices. More expensive than the Arduino, but still
pretty cheap. The Pi runs more than one OS, but the Raspbian version of
Debian is probably most widely-used. The Pi also has a great many
interface devices available, and Python is the expected scripting
language.

-- 
Joe

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-21 Thread cyaiplexys

On 07/21/2018 09:01 PM, David Christensen wrote:

On 07/21/18 15:15, cyaiplexys wrote:
I am getting the Elegoo Super Starter Kit (Arduino Uno R3) to tinker
with (it's on order as of when I'm writing this post).

I looked in the Debian repos for stuff on Arduino and didn't find much
(at least not of interest to me).

I did download the IDE from Elegoo and their tutorials and libraries.
But it's all in C/C++. While I do know C and C++ (to some extent), I'm
very bad at it (I admit to not using it very much, maybe once every
other blue moon and lately we haven't had any blue moons that
warranted using C).

I recently been doing stuff in Python (especially for work, which is
not Arduino related in any way). I am really getting to like Python. I
have created my own Python Libraries for other things (again
unrelated) and even compiled them to .so (binary) using the 'cython'
compiler.

While I could create C source of a Python script using cython, I don't
know how to compile the resulting C source and upload it to the
Arduino board. I would like to use gcc.

Is there a cross-platform compiler for Arduino and gcc that anyone has
had experience with that works or they can recommend?

Or some way to program in Python?

I'll use C/C++ until I can figure the Python stuff out. But I really
would like to be able to use Python at some point.

It sounds like your intended use is as a hobbyist (?).

Yes. I heard about it and got curious. I liked tinkering with
electronics back in the day and kinda wondered what this is about. It's
just basically for my own fun. I don't expect to make something the
world can't live without or anything like that.

STFW for Arduino Uno R3: >
https://store.arduino.cc/arduino-uno-rev3

Microcontroller ATmega328P

Flash Memory 32 KB (ATmega328P) of which 0.5 KB used by bootloader

SRAM 2 KB (ATmega328P)

EEPROM 1 KB (ATmega328P)

Clock Speed 16 MHz

STFW for the CPU:

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Atmel-42735-8-bit-AVR-Microcontroller-ATmega328-328P_Datasheet.pdf

The Atmel® picoPower® ATmega328/P is a low-power CMOS 8-bit
microcontroller based on the AVR® enhanced RISC architecture.

STFW for embedded Python:

https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/atc12/atc12-final30.pdf

This paper presents one mechanism for doing so:
an efficient embedded Python run-time system named
Owl. The Owl system is a complete Python development
toolchain and run-time system for microcontrollers that
do not have enough resources to run a real operating sys-
tem, but are still capable of running sophisticated soft-
ware systems. These microcontrollers typically operate
at 50–100 MHz, have 64–128 KB of SRAM, and have
up to 512 KB of on-chip flash.

Note that the frequency, RAM, and ROM requirements for embedded Python
exceed what is provided by the Arduino Uno. So, that explains why I
also find no solutions for Python on the Arduino Uno R3.

If you want an embedded kit that can do Python (2 or 3?), your best bet
is to get a kit that supports Python OOTB:

https://wiki.python.org/moin/EmbeddedPython

Getting a kit that supports Linux OOTB would give you even more options:

https://www.linux.com/news/top-10-open-source-linux-boards-under-200

Lots of info there. Well, glad it's possible. Looks like it'll take some
doing though. Obviously there won't be anything in Debian's Repo for it
like I hoped.

Thank you for giving me some ideas on what to look for. That'll keep me
busy for awhile!

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-21 Thread cyaiplexys


On 07/21/2018 07:36 PM, deloptes wrote:

Hi, how old are you?
The way you wrote is supposing you are New Gen kid.


Why thank you! :) Actually, physically I'm over half a century old. I 
just try to keep a young mind. I'm a New Gen kid to all this new tech 
stuff though.



Anyway few answers inline

cyaiplexys wrote:


I am getting the Elegoo Super Starter Kit (Arduino Uno R3) to tinker
with (it's on order as of when I'm writing this post).

I looked in the Debian repos for stuff on Arduino and didn't find much
(at least not of interest to me).



What did you expect to find exactly?


*gulp* Python libraries? Cython compiler for the Arduino CPU?

When I wrote this I didn't know exactly what I'm getting into. I heard 
of Arduino and had the impression it's an ARM or ARM-type processor on a 
board and you can interact with your electronic circuits you build with 
it and a computer. After writing the post I went and looked up some 
YouTube tutorials for beginners. I probably should have done that first 
before inserting foot in mouth. :-/



I did download the IDE from Elegoo and their tutorials and libraries.
But it's all in C/C++. While I do know C and C++ (to some extent), I'm
very bad at it (I admit to not using it very much, maybe once every
other blue moon and lately we haven't had any blue moons that warranted
using C).



Well for low level programming mostly C is used actually.
New things to learn -> write a list with dependencies and priorities.

:

More to learn -> add to the list
I did not have a look at Arduino but played with AVR chip programming, so
sure there is for Arduino as well.


I'll remain hopeful. I'm going to have a long list of things I'll want 
to learn.



Or some way to program in Python?

I'll use C/C++ until I can figure the Python stuff out. But I really
would like to be able to use Python at some point.


Finally you are on the wrong user list. This is general debian user list and
we discuss only debian related questions.
IMO Arduino and related should be somewhere else.


Well, since I use Debian I assumed this would be a place to ask what to 
get from the Debian repo that would help in achieving my goal. But you 
do make a good point. I'll have to find some Arduino forums to ask some 
questions in because I'm quite sure I'll have a lot of them.

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-21 Thread David Christensen

On 07/21/18 15:15, cyaiplexys wrote:
I am getting the Elegoo Super Starter Kit (Arduino Uno R3) to tinker
with (it's on order as of when I'm writing this post).

I looked in the Debian repos for stuff on Arduino and didn't find much
(at least not of interest to me).

I recently been doing stuff in Python (especially for work, which is not
Arduino related in any way). I am really getting to like Python. I have
created my own Python Libraries for other things (again unrelated) and
even compiled them to .so (binary) using the 'cython' compiler.

While I could create C source of a Python script using cython, I don't
know how to compile the resulting C source and upload it to the Arduino
board. I would like to use gcc.

Is there a cross-platform compiler for Arduino and gcc that anyone has
had experience with that works or they can recommend?

Or some way to program in Python?

I'll use C/C++ until I can figure the Python stuff out. But I really
would like to be able to use Python at some point.

It sounds like your intended use is as a hobbyist (?).

STFW for Arduino Uno R3:

https://store.arduino.cc/arduino-uno-rev3

Microcontroller ATmega328P

Flash Memory32 KB (ATmega328P) of which 0.5 KB used by bootloader

SRAM2 KB (ATmega328P)

EEPROM 1 KB (ATmega328P)

Clock Speed 16 MHz

STFW for the CPU:

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Atmel-42735-8-bit-AVR-Microcontroller-ATmega328-328P_Datasheet.pdf

The Atmel® picoPower® ATmega328/P is a low-power CMOS 8-bit
microcontroller based on the AVR® enhanced RISC architecture.

STFW for embedded Python:

https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/atc12/atc12-final30.pdf

Note that the frequency, RAM, and ROM requirements for embedded Python
exceed what is provided by the Arduino Uno. So, that explains why I
also find no solutions for Python on the Arduino Uno R3.

If you want an embedded kit that can do Python (2 or 3?), your best bet
is to get a kit that supports Python OOTB:

https://wiki.python.org/moin/EmbeddedPython

Getting a kit that supports Linux OOTB would give you even more options:

https://www.linux.com/news/top-10-open-source-linux-boards-under-200

David

Re: Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-21 Thread deloptes

Hi, how old are you?
The way you wrote is supposing you are New Gen kid.
Anyway few answers inline

cyaiplexys wrote:

> I am getting the Elegoo Super Starter Kit (Arduino Uno R3) to tinker
> with (it's on order as of when I'm writing this post).
> 
> I looked in the Debian repos for stuff on Arduino and didn't find much
> (at least not of interest to me).
> 

What did you expect to find exactly?

> I did download the IDE from Elegoo and their tutorials and libraries.
> But it's all in C/C++. While I do know C and C++ (to some extent), I'm
> very bad at it (I admit to not using it very much, maybe once every
> other blue moon and lately we haven't had any blue moons that warranted
> using C).
> 

Well for low level programming mostly C is used actually.
New things to learn -> write a list with dependencies and priorities.

> I recently been doing stuff in Python (especially for work, which is not
> Arduino related in any way). I am really getting to like Python. I have
> created my own Python Libraries for other things (again unrelated) and
> even compiled them to .so (binary) using the 'cython' compiler.
> 

More to learn -> add to the list

> While I could create C source of a Python script using cython, I don't
> know how to compile the resulting C source and upload it to the Arduino
> board. I would like to use gcc.
> 
More to learn -> add to the list

> Is there a cross-platform compiler for Arduino and gcc that anyone has
> had experience with that works or they can recommend?
> 
More to learn -> add to the list
I did not have a look at Arduino but played with AVR chip programming, so
sure there is for Arduino as well.

> Or some way to program in Python?
> 
> I'll use C/C++ until I can figure the Python stuff out. But I really
> would like to be able to use Python at some point.

Finally you are on the wrong user list. This is general debian user list and
we discuss only debian related questions.
IMO Arduino and related should be somewhere else.

regards

Arduino and Python or gcc compiler?

2018-07-21 Thread cyaiplexys

I am getting the Elegoo Super Starter Kit (Arduino Uno R3) to tinker 
with (it's on order as of when I'm writing this post).


I looked in the Debian repos for stuff on Arduino and didn't find much 
(at least not of interest to me).


I did download the IDE from Elegoo and their tutorials and libraries. 
But it's all in C/C++. While I do know C and C++ (to some extent), I'm 
very bad at it (I admit to not using it very much, maybe once every 
other blue moon and lately we haven't had any blue moons that warranted 
using C).


I recently been doing stuff in Python (especially for work, which is not 
Arduino related in any way). I am really getting to like Python. I have 
created my own Python Libraries for other things (again unrelated) and 
even compiled them to .so (binary) using the 'cython' compiler.


While I could create C source of a Python script using cython, I don't 
know how to compile the resulting C source and upload it to the Arduino 
board. I would like to use gcc.


Is there a cross-platform compiler for Arduino and gcc that anyone has 
had experience with that works or they can recommend?


Or some way to program in Python?

I'll use C/C++ until I can figure the Python stuff out. But I really 
would like to be able to use Python at some point.

Re: GCC 7

2018-06-15 Thread tomas

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 08:35:29AM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2018, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > Took out mk-sbuild for a whirl. What I didn't like at all: when you
> > invoke a command and it goes out and starts installing packages for
> > you (and doing other assorted sysadmin tasks).
> 
> You can do everything that mk-sbuild does for you manually, but when
> you're setting up many different sbuild chroots, it makes things much
> easier. [And it makes my response much simpler.]

Yes, I understand *why* it is doing it. It just doesn't rhyme very
well with the way I do things.

Pulling in dependencies at install is something I expect (and can
easily check in advance, thanks to the well thought-out Debian
packaging system). Calling "apt-get install" (to my *main* system,
not to the chroot!) from a seemingly unrelated command is something
I... dislike (there were other things I disliked, too).

So this was just a heads-up for others like me. I had a look into
the mk-sbuild script and decided to purge ubuntu-dev-tools.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: GCC 7

2018-06-14 Thread Don Armstrong

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> Took out mk-sbuild for a whirl. What I didn't like at all: when you
> invoke a command and it goes out and starts installing packages for
> you (and doing other assorted sysadmin tasks).

You can do everything that mk-sbuild does for you manually, but when
you're setting up many different sbuild chroots, it makes things much
easier. [And it makes my response much simpler.]

The things that mk-sbuild installs are just sbuild, schroot, and
debootstrap, and possibly lvm2 if you're using lvm chroots; I actually
didn't notice that it even did that because I have all of them
installed. [And really, mk-sbuild *is* a sysadmin tool designed to
automate sysadmin tasks.]

-- 
Don Armstrong  https://www.donarmstrong.com

"I always tend to assume there's an infinite amount of money out
there." "There might as well be, [...] but most of it gets spent on
pornography, sugar water, and bombs. There is only so much that can be
scraped together for particle accelerators."
 -- Neal Stephenson _Anathem_ p262

Re: GCC 7

2018-06-14 Thread tomas

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 01:06:27PM +0200, Irek Szcześniak wrote:
> I tried schroot in a different way, as described here:
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Schroot
> 
> As part of the process, you install a complete, fresh Buster with:
> 
> debootstrap buster /srv/chroot/buster
> 
> So this solution is like a container.

Yep, that rhymes better with how I tick :-)

Thanks, cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: GCC 7


I tried schroot in a different way, as described here:

https://wiki.debian.org/Schroot

As part of the process, you install a complete, fresh Buster with:

debootstrap buster /srv/chroot/buster

So this solution is like a container.


Best,
Irek

On 14.06.2018 12:47, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 08:37:57AM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018, Irek Szcześniak wrote:

Thanks for pointing out pbuilder, I think I'll give it a try.  I also might
want to try virtual containers, but it seems like an overkill.


You might also try out schroot.

Something like:

apt-get install schroot ubuntu-dev-tools;
mk-sbuild unstable;
schroot unstable;

will get you in an unstable chroot which you can use to build packages.
[schroot+sbuild is what Debian developers often use instead of pbuilder,
but either approach works.]


Took out mk-sbuild for a whirl. What I didn't like at all: when you
invoke a command and it goes out and starts installing packages for
you (and doing other assorted sysadmin tasks).

Pretty heavy-handed, if you ask me. YMMV.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: GCC 7

2018-06-14 Thread tomas

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 08:37:57AM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018, Irek Szcześniak wrote:
> > Thanks for pointing out pbuilder, I think I'll give it a try.  I also might
> > want to try virtual containers, but it seems like an overkill.
> 
> You might also try out schroot.
> 
> Something like:
> 
> apt-get install schroot ubuntu-dev-tools;
> mk-sbuild unstable;
> schroot unstable;
> 
> will get you in an unstable chroot which you can use to build packages.
> [schroot+sbuild is what Debian developers often use instead of pbuilder,
> but either approach works.]

Took out mk-sbuild for a whirl. What I didn't like at all: when you
invoke a command and it goes out and starts installing packages for
you (and doing other assorted sysadmin tasks). 

Pretty heavy-handed, if you ask me. YMMV.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: GCC 7

2018-06-14 Thread tomas

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 10:44:59AM +0200, Irek Szcześniak wrote:
> Tomás, thank you again for your email.
> 
> I didn't finally try pbuilder, because compiling GCC solved my
> problem. If something goes wrong, I'll use schroot.  Thanks for
> pointing out pbuilder, it may come handy one day!

Glad you solved it :-)

Collaterally, I learnt about schroot, so thanks for this one as
well.

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: GCC 7


Tomás, thank you again for your email.

I didn't finally try pbuilder, because compiling GCC solved my problem. 
If something goes wrong, I'll use schroot.  Thanks for pointing out 
pbuilder, it may come handy one day!



Best,
Irek

On 13.06.2018 12:20, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:06:21PM +0200, Irek Szcześniak wrote:

Thanks, Tomás, for your email.

I should have written before that I don't want the GCC 7 to be a
system-wide compiler, along with libraries and some other
dependencies. I need GCC 7 to compile my own code (C++17) that I
run.  I don't need to distribute the binaries.


I see. Then pbuilder might well be an option (you might end up
having to run your application in the chroot, but hey).


Yes, GCC 7 is not in the backports, so it's not an option.  There
might be some Debian packages with GCC 7, but I worry about making a
FrankenDebian, and the ensuing dependency and linking problems.


Yeah -- I already mixed a newer version of GCC back then by enabling
testing into a stable and survived it (actually for a year's period,
on my main work machine) but ended up with nearly 100% testing after
a while. FrankenDebian isn't as bad as its reputation, but you want
to watch your step. Aptitude tends to become unusable after a while
(its dependency resolver seems to intelligent to master that much
chaos), but apt-get/apt can cope.

So if you know what you're doing and you are a bit fearless,
FrankenDebian isn't *that* bad. Not recommended for beginners and
those who just want peace with their computers, for sure.


Thanks for pointing out pbuilder, I think I'll give it a try.  I
also might want to try virtual containers, but it seems like an
overkill.

I might later drop an email to the debian-gcc mailing list.


Yes, perhaps someone gets nudged into backporting (actually you
might try yourself: just download the gcc-7 source package, its
build dependencies (apt-get build-dep) and build away, but gcc
is of course daunting, so you most probably end up shaving
a king-size yak :-)

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: GCC 7


Thank you, Don, for your advice!

I tried schroot, and it's awesome!  I followed the steps on:

https://wiki.debian.org/Schroot

I was able to build my code just as on Buster.  The difference between 
schroot and chroot is that with schroot you have assess to the files 
outside the root directory of chroot (like /srv/chroot/buster), and I'm 
thinking specifically about the home directory.


Thanks!


Best,
Irek

On 13.06.2018 17:37, Don Armstrong wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018, Irek Szcześniak wrote:

Thanks for pointing out pbuilder, I think I'll give it a try.  I also might
want to try virtual containers, but it seems like an overkill.


You might also try out schroot.

Something like:

apt-get install schroot ubuntu-dev-tools;
mk-sbuild unstable;
schroot unstable;

will get you in an unstable chroot which you can use to build packages.
[schroot+sbuild is what Debian developers often use instead of pbuilder,
but either approach works.]

Re: GCC 7


Georgi, thank you for you email.

I gave it a try.  On Stretch, GCC 8.1 compiled and installed cleanly.  I 
put the path to the gcc binary (/usr/local/gcc-8.1.0/bin) in my PATH, 
and I compiled and ran my code without any other configuration.  I 
expected some linking problems, but the binary dynamically links to the 
system libraries, and things are OK.  Cool!  Thanks again!



Best,
Irek

On 13.06.2018 23:43, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:

On 06/13/2018 11:04 AM, Irek Szcześniak wrote:

Hi,

I need GCC 7 on my Debian Stretch.  Previously I upgraded my Stretch to
Testing (Buster), but I ran to some problems, and reinstalled the system
back to Stretch.

Could someone offer an advice on how to get a working GCC 7 on Debian
Stretch, without upgrading to Testing?


Another option could be to build GCC-7 yourself from source. Don't
forget to use appropriate prefix when you run "configure".

Kind regards
Georgi

Re: GCC 7

2018-06-13 Thread Georgi Naplatanov

On 06/13/2018 11:04 AM, Irek Szcześniak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need GCC 7 on my Debian Stretch.  Previously I upgraded my Stretch to
> Testing (Buster), but I ran to some problems, and reinstalled the system
> back to Stretch.
> 
> Could someone offer an advice on how to get a working GCC 7 on Debian
> Stretch, without upgrading to Testing?

Another option could be to build GCC-7 yourself from source. Don't
forget to use appropriate prefix when you run "configure".

Kind regards
Georgi

Re: GCC 7

2018-06-13 Thread Don Armstrong

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018, Irek Szcześniak wrote:
> Thanks for pointing out pbuilder, I think I'll give it a try.  I also might
> want to try virtual containers, but it seems like an overkill.

You might also try out schroot.

Something like:

apt-get install schroot ubuntu-dev-tools;
mk-sbuild unstable;
schroot unstable;

will get you in an unstable chroot which you can use to build packages.
[schroot+sbuild is what Debian developers often use instead of pbuilder,
but either approach works.]

-- 
Don Armstrong  https://www.donarmstrong.com

The smallest quantity of bread that can be sliced and toasted has yet
to be experimentally determined. In the quantum limit we must
necessarily encounter fundamental toast particles which the author
will unflinchingly designate here as "croutons".
 -- Cser, Jim. Nanotechnology and the Physical Limits of Toastability.
AIR 1:3, June, 1995.

Re: GCC 7

2018-06-13 Thread tomas

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:06:21PM +0200, Irek Szcześniak wrote:
> Thanks, Tomás, for your email.
> 
> I should have written before that I don't want the GCC 7 to be a
> system-wide compiler, along with libraries and some other
> dependencies. I need GCC 7 to compile my own code (C++17) that I
> run.  I don't need to distribute the binaries.

I see. Then pbuilder might well be an option (you might end up
having to run your application in the chroot, but hey).

> Yes, GCC 7 is not in the backports, so it's not an option.  There
> might be some Debian packages with GCC 7, but I worry about making a
> FrankenDebian, and the ensuing dependency and linking problems.

Yeah -- I already mixed a newer version of GCC back then by enabling
testing into a stable and survived it (actually for a year's period,
on my main work machine) but ended up with nearly 100% testing after
a while. FrankenDebian isn't as bad as its reputation, but you want
to watch your step. Aptitude tends to become unusable after a while
(its dependency resolver seems to intelligent to master that much
chaos), but apt-get/apt can cope.

So if you know what you're doing and you are a bit fearless,
FrankenDebian isn't *that* bad. Not recommended for beginners and
those who just want peace with their computers, for sure.

> Thanks for pointing out pbuilder, I think I'll give it a try.  I
> also might want to try virtual containers, but it seems like an
> overkill.
> 
> I might later drop an email to the debian-gcc mailing list.

Yes, perhaps someone gets nudged into backporting (actually you
might try yourself: just download the gcc-7 source package, its
build dependencies (apt-get build-dep) and build away, but gcc
is of course daunting, so you most probably end up shaving
a king-size yak :-)

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: GCC 7

2018-06-13 Thread Irek Szcześniak


Thanks, Tomás, for your email.

I should have written before that I don't want the GCC 7 to be a 
system-wide compiler, along with libraries and some other dependencies. 
I need GCC 7 to compile my own code (C++17) that I run.  I don't need to 
distribute the binaries.


Yes, GCC 7 is not in the backports, so it's not an option.  There might 
be some Debian packages with GCC 7, but I worry about making a 
FrankenDebian, and the ensuing dependency and linking problems.


Thanks for pointing out pbuilder, I think I'll give it a try.  I also 
might want to try virtual containers, but it seems like an overkill.


I might later drop an email to the debian-gcc mailing list.


Best,
Irek

On 13.06.2018 11:21, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:04:25AM +0200, Irek Szcześniak wrote:

Hi,

I need GCC 7 on my Debian Stretch.  Previously I upgraded my Stretch
to Testing (Buster), but I ran to some problems, and reinstalled the
system back to Stretch.

Could someone offer an advice on how to get a working GCC 7 on
Debian Stretch, without upgrading to Testing?


Backports would be a place to go. There seem to be others in your
situation:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-gcc/2018/04/msg00137.html

(but I haven't seen an answer to this request in that mailing
list).

Perhaps pinging debian-gcc list is a good idea.

Alternatively, if you just want to build for testing, some
pbuilder (chroot) setup might help, but then your program
might want to link to newer core libraries...

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: GCC 7

2018-06-13 Thread tomas

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:04:25AM +0200, Irek Szcześniak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need GCC 7 on my Debian Stretch.  Previously I upgraded my Stretch
> to Testing (Buster), but I ran to some problems, and reinstalled the
> system back to Stretch.
> 
> Could someone offer an advice on how to get a working GCC 7 on
> Debian Stretch, without upgrading to Testing?

Backports would be a place to go. There seem to be others in your
situation:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-gcc/2018/04/msg00137.html

(but I haven't seen an answer to this request in that mailing
list).

Perhaps pinging debian-gcc list is a good idea.

Alternatively, if you just want to build for testing, some
pbuilder (chroot) setup might help, but then your program
might want to link to newer core libraries...

Cheers
- -- tomás
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GCC 7

2018-06-13 Thread Irek Szcześniak


Hi,

I need GCC 7 on my Debian Stretch.  Previously I upgraded my Stretch to 
Testing (Buster), but I ran to some problems, and reinstalled the system 
back to Stretch.


Could someone offer an advice on how to get a working GCC 7 on Debian 
Stretch, without upgrading to Testing?



Thanks & best,
Irek

Re: How to correctly select gcc / why dkms rebuild failed on xtables-addons

2018-03-20 Thread David Wright

On Tue 20 Mar 2018 at 23:18:29 (+0100), Neo wrote:
> Hey folks
> 
> I've had a setup with xtables-addons running (on jessie with
> standard repos), especially the geoip module in this case. The
> normal upgrade path installed gcc-4.9 and broke my dkms setup and in
> turn my iptables setup. So it fell back on my fail2ban protection
> against ssh scripts.
> 
> /usr/bin/gcc-4.8 was on strange file permissions, with not even
> execute perms for root. Thus de dkms rebuild failed.
> 
> now my questions:
> 
> why was gcc-4.8 binary set to no execution, even for root?
> 
> why is xtables-addons-dkms not using gcc-4.9?
> 
> a simple chmod 700 /usr/bin/gcc-4.8 fixed the problem.
> 
> Thank you for any enlightenment

Your fixup might give a clue as to how it got the wrong permissions:
you've just broken your gcc-4.8 which ought to be executable by all
(as should everything in /usr/bin).

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root   root 7 Feb 25  2015 gcc -> gcc-4.9*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root   root715448 Dec 20  2014 gcc-4.8*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root   root806344 Feb 10 18:17 gcc-4.9*

Cheers,
David.

How to correctly select gcc / why dkms rebuild failed on xtables-addons

2018-03-20 Thread Neo


Hey folks

I've had a setup with xtables-addons running (on jessie with standard 
repos), especially the geoip module in this case. The normal upgrade 
path installed gcc-4.9 and broke my dkms setup and in turn my iptables 
setup. So it fell back on my fail2ban protection against ssh scripts.


/usr/bin/gcc-4.8 was on strange file permissions, with not even execute 
perms for root. Thus de dkms rebuild failed.


now my questions:

why was gcc-4.8 binary set to no execution, even for root?

why is xtables-addons-dkms not using gcc-4.9?

a simple chmod 700 /usr/bin/gcc-4.8 fixed the problem.

Thank you for any enlightenment

best regards

Re: Install or build an older gcc/g++ on new Debian (GCC backport)

2018-02-23 Thread Reco

Hi.

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 05:57:59PM +, Bas Ali wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Just to need help for what concerning to build or/and install an older GCC on 
> a new Debian Distro (e.g 8.8 or 9.3)
> The goal is to be able to compile and build binaries on the New Debian with 
> an older GCC to keep backcompatibility of binaries program previously built 
> on Debian 7 (32bits Wheezy)  using the built-in GCC (4.7.2). Ideally the two 
> binaries built from a Debian 7 32bits and from Debian 8 64bits will be the 
> same byte a byte. 

That could be much more complex than using old GCC.
These guys - [1] - are trying to solve much easier problem - and they
aren't there yet.

> At this moment I know that it possible (but maybe not the good solution ?) to 
> build a 4.7.2 GCC source with the Built-in GCC of a Debian 8.8 (64bits 
> Jessie) but it appears that for > 4.5 GCC there is a need to build too other 
> packages (MPC, MPFR,..) separately (using some option to built on good 
> directory).

Being lazy, I solve such problems with good old chroot.
I mean, why go into all this trouble by compiling a toolchain from the
source if someone did it already.

You need something built for Debian 7 i386? Make a chroot of Debian 7
i386 and build you binaries there.

Making chroot by hand sounds too complex? Use LXC, they have a nice easy
way to set up pretty much any major Linux distribution in a container.

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds

Reco

Re: Install or build an older gcc/g++ on new Debian (GCC backport)

2018-02-23 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 05:57:59PM +, Bas Ali wrote:
> Just to need help for what concerning to build or/and install an older GCC on 
> a new Debian Distro (e.g 8.8 or 9.3)
> The goal is to be able to compile and build binaries on the New Debian with 
> an older GCC to keep backcompatibility of binaries program previously built 
> on Debian 7 (32bits Wheezy)  using the built-in GCC (4.7.2). Ideally the two 
> binaries built from a Debian 7 32bits and from Debian 8 64bits will be the 
> same byte a byte. 

Just install wheezy in a chroot and compile there, if you want to produce
programs that can run on wheezy.

Install or build an older gcc/g++ on new Debian (GCC backport)

2018-02-23 Thread Bas Ali


Hi,
Just to need help for what concerning to build or/and install an older GCC on a 
new Debian Distro (e.g 8.8 or 9.3)
The goal is to be able to compile and build binaries on the New Debian with an 
older GCC to keep backcompatibility of binaries program previously built on 
Debian 7 (32bits Wheezy)  using the built-in GCC (4.7.2). Ideally the two 
binaries built from a Debian 7 32bits and from Debian 8 64bits will be the same 
byte a byte. 
At this moment I know that it possible (but maybe not the good solution ?) to 
build a 4.7.2 GCC source with the Built-in GCC of a Debian 8.8 (64bits Jessie) 
but it appears that for > 4.5 GCC there is a need to build too other packages 
(MPC, MPFR,..) separately (using some option to built on good directory).
Is this method bellow correct ? 
I think there will be the main libraries (libgcc, libc, libstdc++,.. ) to check 
for changes from previous version etc...
 Do I need to install gcc-multilib because the 4.7.2 GCC was from a 32 bits 
machine ?Do I need to add Multi ARCH  (e.g.: dpkg  --add-architecture i386) ?
Thanks in advanceAli

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

2018-01-27 Thread tv.deb...@googlemail.com


On 27/01/2018 22:47, Michael Lange wrote:

Hi,

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 22:30:06 +0530
"tv.deb...@googlemail.com"  wrote:


Hi, you need to read the kernel-package doc, it requires configuration.
Read at the minimum /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/README.gz
It contains all the info you need, and even gives you hints as to how
to configure your system, like:

"
  Or, alternately, you could do:
--8<---cut here---start->8---
   cp /usr/share/kernel-package/examples/etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs
\ /etc/kernel/postinst.d/
   cp /usr/share/kernel-package/examples/etc/kernel/postrm.d/initramfs \
  /etc/kernel/postrm.d/
--8<---cut here---end--->8---
"

to get a working initrd.


it is certainly a good advice to read the docs before starting.
But then, I admit that I never did and never configured anything for
make-kpkg (besides installing required software of course) and the
resulting kernel packages including the initrd's "just worked".
So I guess that the OP's problem do not result from a misconfigured
kernel-package (unless the OP changed some defaults for the worse) but
from something else. Just a guess of course.

My guess is, that the "make clean" command issued before the last build
attempt failed to clean the source tree properly and the try before was
not succesful either.







Then "make-kpkg clean" may be the answer ?

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

2018-01-27 Thread Michael Lange

Hi,

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 22:30:06 +0530
"tv.deb...@googlemail.com"  wrote:

> Hi, you need to read the kernel-package doc, it requires configuration. 
> Read at the minimum /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/README.gz
> It contains all the info you need, and even gives you hints as to how
> to configure your system, like:
> 
> "
>  Or, alternately, you could do:
> --8<---cut here---start->8---
>   cp /usr/share/kernel-package/examples/etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs
> \ /etc/kernel/postinst.d/
>   cp /usr/share/kernel-package/examples/etc/kernel/postrm.d/initramfs \
>  /etc/kernel/postrm.d/
> --8<---cut here---end--->8---
> "
> 
> to get a working initrd.

it is certainly a good advice to read the docs before starting.
But then, I admit that I never did and never configured anything for
make-kpkg (besides installing required software of course) and the
resulting kernel packages including the initrd's "just worked".
So I guess that the OP's problem do not result from a misconfigured
kernel-package (unless the OP changed some defaults for the worse) but
from something else. Just a guess of course.

My guess is, that the "make clean" command issued before the last build
attempt failed to clean the source tree properly and the try before was
not succesful either.

.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

... bacteriological warfare ... hard to believe we were once foolish
enough to play around with that.
-- McCoy, "The Omega Glory", stardate unknown

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

2018-01-27 Thread tv.deb...@googlemail.com


On 27/01/2018 20:30, Michael Fothergill wrote:

On 27 January 2018 at 13:38, Michael Lange <klappn...@freenet.de> wrote:


Hi,

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:12:13 +
Michael Fothergill <michael.fotherg...@gmail.com> wrote:


I think I will sign up on the gcc gnu help page and ask people if they
have a test case file I can run to 100% confirm the GCC 8 compiler is
running properly.
Once I am convinced it is then the next stage is to try to talk to the
developers who maintain the make-kpkg program.


are you still using gcc-8? Here this one didn't work at all for me,
compiling always aborted early with compiler errors. It worked
immediately though after I removed ggc-8 and upgraded gcc-7 to v. 7.3
from sid.

Regards

Michael



I have sent the kernel-source package maintainer the following email:

**

Dear Sir,

I understand that you are the package maintainer for kernel-source ie
make-kpkg etc. within debian.

I am running debian unstable (Sid)on an amd64 kaveri box.

I installed GCC 8 from the experimental repository.  I am trying to use it
to compile the kernel 4.14.15 using make-kpkg to use the fixes for the
meltdown and spectre vulnerabilities.

The output from doing this is here:

https://pastebin.com/sgrhdCKW

Make-kpkg did not create any linux-image file ..?!

I copied over the config file from/boot and ran make-clean and the
command:  yes "" | make oldconfig before running make-kpkg.

Kernel compilations I do in gentoo (I am a gentoo user as well as a debian
user) usually take a while.

This ran too quickly I think.

Something is not quite right here I think.

It might be that more dependent packages needed to be installed to make
GCC8 run happily.

As a result I have sent an email to the gnu gcc help site (
gcc-h...@gcc.gnu.org) asking them for a test file to check that GCC8 is
running correctly.

But, maybe you might say that make-kpkg needs to be upgraded in some way to
work correctly here and GCC 8 ran OK...


The discussions on these two threads are relevant to this case:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/01/msg01159.html

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/01/msg01002.html

We are all trying to compile kernels that defeat the meltdown and spectre
vulnerabilities.

Comments appreciated.

Regards

etc

*

Maybe will end up having to quit with GCC8 but it I am giving it one last
attempt here.

Cheers

MF






.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

 "It's hard to believe that something which is neither seen nor
felt can do so much harm."
 "That's true.  But an idea can't be seen or felt.  And that's
what kept the Troglytes in the mines all these centuries.  A mistaken
idea."
 -- Vanna and Kirk, "The Cloud Minders", stardate 5819.0






Hi, you need to read the kernel-package doc, it requires configuration. 
Read at the minimum /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/README.gz
It contains all the info you need, and even gives you hints as to how to 
configure your system, like:


"
Or, alternately, you could do:
--8<---cut here---start->8---
 cp /usr/share/kernel-package/examples/etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs \
/etc/kernel/postinst.d/
 cp /usr/share/kernel-package/examples/etc/kernel/postrm.d/initramfs \
/etc/kernel/postrm.d/
--8<---cut here---end--->8---
"

to get a working initrd.

Once it is configured you need a command that will look like:

make-kpkg -j 4 --revision 1 --append_to_version -mykernel --initrd 
kernel_image kernel_headers


to build both kernel and headers packages, and get and initrd to boot 
on. The default is to create the packages one level above the current 
directory (../).


I don't think it is the maintainer to walk you through the procedure, he 
already wrote the docs.


Building on a custom kernel is not very difficult, but it isn't as 
trivial as an "apt-get install", some extra work and care are required. 
And you may void your Debian warranty (you have none anyway) ;-) .

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

On 27 January 2018 at 13:38, Michael Lange <klappn...@freenet.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:12:13 +
> Michael Fothergill <michael.fotherg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think I will sign up on the gcc gnu help page and ask people if they
> > have a test case file I can run to 100% confirm the GCC 8 compiler is
> > running properly.
> > Once I am convinced it is then the next stage is to try to talk to the
> > developers who maintain the make-kpkg program.
>
> are you still using gcc-8? Here this one didn't work at all for me,
> compiling always aborted early with compiler errors. It worked
> immediately though after I removed ggc-8 and upgraded gcc-7 to v. 7.3
> from sid.
>
> Regards
>
> Michael
>

I have sent the kernel-source package maintainer the following email:

**

Dear Sir,

I understand that you are the package maintainer for kernel-source ie
make-kpkg etc. within debian.

I am running debian unstable (Sid)on an amd64 kaveri box.

I installed GCC 8 from the experimental repository.  I am trying to use it
to compile the kernel 4.14.15 using make-kpkg to use the fixes for the
meltdown and spectre vulnerabilities.

The output from doing this is here:

https://pastebin.com/sgrhdCKW

Make-kpkg did not create any linux-image file ..?!

I copied over the config file from/boot and ran make-clean and the
command:  yes "" | make oldconfig before running make-kpkg.

Kernel compilations I do in gentoo (I am a gentoo user as well as a debian
user) usually take a while.

This ran too quickly I think.

Something is not quite right here I think.

It might be that more dependent packages needed to be installed to make
GCC8 run happily.

As a result I have sent an email to the gnu gcc help site (
gcc-h...@gcc.gnu.org) asking them for a test file to check that GCC8 is
running correctly.

But, maybe you might say that make-kpkg needs to be upgraded in some way to
work correctly here and GCC 8 ran OK...

The discussions on these two threads are relevant to this case:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/01/msg01159.html

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/01/msg01002.html

We are all trying to compile kernels that defeat the meltdown and spectre
vulnerabilities.

Comments appreciated.

Regards

etc

*

Maybe will end up having to quit with GCC8 but it I am giving it one last
attempt here.

Cheers

MF

>
> .-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.
>
> "It's hard to believe that something which is neither seen nor
> felt can do so much harm."
> "That's true.  But an idea can't be seen or felt.  And that's
> what kept the Troglytes in the mines all these centuries.  A mistaken
> idea."
> -- Vanna and Kirk, "The Cloud Minders", stardate 5819.0
>
>

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

On 27 January 2018 at 13:38, Michael Lange <klappn...@freenet.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:12:13 +
> Michael Fothergill <michael.fotherg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think I will sign up on the gcc gnu help page and ask people if they
> > have a test case file I can run to 100% confirm the GCC 8 compiler is
> > running properly.
> > Once I am convinced it is then the next stage is to try to talk to the
> > developers who maintain the make-kpkg program.
>
> are you still using gcc-8? Here this one didn't work at all for me,
> compiling always aborted early with compiler errors. It worked
> immediately though after I removed ggc-8 and upgraded gcc-7 to v. 7.3
> from sid.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Michael
>

PS The maintainer of  
 kernel-package
 (https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/kernel-package) that contains make-kpkg
is: Manoj Srivastava <sriva...@debian.org> .

Cheers

MF



> .-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.
>
> "It's hard to believe that something which is neither seen nor
> felt can do so much harm."
> "That's true.  But an idea can't be seen or felt.  And that's
> what kept the Troglytes in the mines all these centuries.  A mistaken
> idea."
> -- Vanna and Kirk, "The Cloud Minders", stardate 5819.0
>
>

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

On 27 January 2018 at 13:38, Michael Lange <klappn...@freenet.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:12:13 +
> Michael Fothergill <michael.fotherg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think I will sign up on the gcc gnu help page and ask people if they
> > have a test case file I can run to 100% confirm the GCC 8 compiler is
> > running properly.
> > Once I am convinced it is then the next stage is to try to talk to the
> > developers who maintain the make-kpkg program.
>
> are you still using gcc-8? Here this one didn't work at all for me,
> compiling always aborted early with compiler errors. It worked
> immediately though after I removed ggc-8 and upgraded gcc-7 to v. 7.3
> from sid.
>

In my case after I took you helpful advice and installed libelf-dev in GCC
8 (which I am still using)  the crash I had went away.

I think now GCC 8 is close to working OK.

Perhaps it needs another little nudge or some other package we don't know
about.

I have sent the gnu gcc help people the following email:

**

Dear All,

I am running debian unstable on an amd64 kaveri box.

I recently installed GCC 8 from the Debian experimental site:

https://packages.debian.org/experimental/devel/gcc-8

I also installed libelf-dev.

It did run correctly without it.

I have been using it to try to compile and install linux kernel 4.14.15
using the
debian package make-kpkg.

The output from doing this is here:

https://pastebin.com/sgrhdCKW

I copied over the config file from/boot and ran make-clean and the
command:  yes "" | make oldconfig before running make-kpkg.

Kernel compilations I do in gentoo usually take a while.

This ran too quickly I think.

Something is not quite right here.

Perhaps some more depedent packages needed to be installed to make GCC8 run
happily.

Do you have a test file I can compile that will check whether GCC 8 is
really running correctly?

The discussions on these two threads are relevant:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/01/msg01159.html

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/01/msg01002.html

We are all trying to compile kernels that defeat the meltdown and spectre
vulnerabilities.

Comments appreciated.

Regards

MF

Maybe they can help here.

Cheers

MF

>
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
> .-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.
>
> "It's hard to believe that something which is neither seen nor
> felt can do so much harm."
> "That's true.  But an idea can't be seen or felt.  And that's
> what kept the Troglytes in the mines all these centuries.  A mistaken
> idea."
> -- Vanna and Kirk, "The Cloud Minders", stardate 5819.0
>
>

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

On 27 January 2018 at 13:17, Michael Lange  wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 12:32:24 +
> Michael Fothergill  wrote:
>
> > On 27 January 2018 at 11:59, Michael Lange  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:26:25 +
> > > Michael Fothergill  wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Where would the default location of such a file be if were created
> > > > using the make-kpkg command?
> > >
> > > the package should be in the source's parent directory, in your case I
> > > guess in /usr/src .
> > >
> >
> > I think something is not right here. The compilation was very quick.
> > Normally in gentoo the kernel compilation takes a little while.
> > Maybe something got left out.
> >
> > Maybe I should have run mrproper after make clean before running
> > make-kpkg.
>
> Yes, I naturally cannot tell from here, but it sounds like for some
> reason the procedure was terminated prematurely.
>

But, you would argue that what terminated was the make-kpkg efforts to
make use of the result of the successful compilation not a malfunction of
the compiler itself

At least I think that is what you are saying/suggesting here.

It did occur to me that maybe I still need some extra package to be
installed either for the compiler or make-kpkg here.

Cheers

MF



>
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
>
> .-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.
>
> It is necessary to have purpose.
> -- Alice #1, "I, Mudd", stardate 4513.3
>
>

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

2018-01-27 Thread Michael Lange

Hi,

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:12:13 +
Michael Fothergill <michael.fotherg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think I will sign up on the gcc gnu help page and ask people if they
> have a test case file I can run to 100% confirm the GCC 8 compiler is
> running properly.
> Once I am convinced it is then the next stage is to try to talk to the
> developers who maintain the make-kpkg program.

are you still using gcc-8? Here this one didn't work at all for me,
compiling always aborted early with compiler errors. It worked
immediately though after I removed ggc-8 and upgraded gcc-7 to v. 7.3
from sid.

Regards

Michael

.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

"It's hard to believe that something which is neither seen nor
felt can do so much harm."
"That's true.  But an idea can't be seen or felt.  And that's
what kept the Troglytes in the mines all these centuries.  A mistaken
idea."
-- Vanna and Kirk, "The Cloud Minders", stardate 5819.0

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

On 27 January 2018 at 12:43, Michael Lange <klappn...@freenet.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 12:12:57 +
> Michael Fothergill <michael.fotherg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Should the filename be something like linux-image-4.14.14.deb etc?
>
> With default settings for make-kpkg the filename is probably a little
> longer, here it looks like
>
> linux-image-4.15.0-rc9-klappnase270118_4.15.0-rc9-
> klappnase270118-10.00.Custom_amd64.deb
>
>
> >
> > Maybe Greg could think some find command that would search everywhere in
> > the install I have here and then find it in some funny directory (even
> > /tmp?) no one has ever heard of.
> >
> > I would be grateful for suggestions here.
> >
> > Could there be a bug in gcc 8 that made it forget to actually output the
> > file?
>
> I don't think that gcc is to blame.


I think I will sign up on the gcc gnu help page and ask people if they
have a test case file I can run to 100% confirm the GCC 8 compiler is
running properly.
Once I am convinced it is then the next stage is to try to talk to the
developers who maintain the make-kpkg program.

Cheers

MF




> Did you look at the final messages
> make-kpkg printed? If run successfully it should say something like
> "building package linux-image-..." .
>
> Regards
>
> Michael
>





>
>
> .-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.
>
> Power is danger.
> -- The Centurion, "Balance of Terror", stardate 1709.2
>
>

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

2018-01-27 Thread Michael Lange

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 12:32:24 +
Michael Fothergill  wrote:

> On 27 January 2018 at 11:59, Michael Lange  wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:26:25 +
> > Michael Fothergill  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Where would the default location of such a file be if were created
> > > using the make-kpkg command?
> >
> > the package should be in the source's parent directory, in your case I
> > guess in /usr/src .
> >
> 
> I think something is not right here. The compilation was very quick.
> Normally in gentoo the kernel compilation takes a little while.
> Maybe something got left out.
> 
> Maybe I should have run mrproper after make clean before running
> make-kpkg.

Yes, I naturally cannot tell from here, but it sounds like for some
reason the procedure was terminated prematurely.

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

It is necessary to have purpose.
-- Alice #1, "I, Mudd", stardate 4513.3

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

It does seem as if make-kpkg has gone awol here.

MF

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......

On 27 January 2018 at 12:43, Michael Lange <klappn...@freenet.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 12:12:57 +
> Michael Fothergill <michael.fotherg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Should the filename be something like linux-image-4.14.14.deb etc?
>
> With default settings for make-kpkg the filename is probably a little
> longer, here it looks like
>
> linux-image-4.15.0-rc9-klappnase270118_4.15.0-rc9-
> klappnase270118-10.00.Custom_amd64.deb
>
>
> >
> > Maybe Greg could think some find command that would search everywhere in
> > the install I have here and then find it in some funny directory (even
> > /tmp?) no one has ever heard of.
> >
> > I would be grateful for suggestions here.
> >
> > Could there be a bug in gcc 8 that made it forget to actually output the
> > file?
>
> I don't think that gcc is to blame. Did you look at the final messages
> make-kpkg printed? If run successfully it should say something like
> "building package linux-image-..." .
>

It never did it.   It did this at the end:

chmod 0644 debian/control debian/changelog
make -f debian/rules debian/stamp/conf/kernel-conf
make[2]: Entering directory '/usr/src/linux-4.14.15'
make[2]: 'debian/stamp/conf/kernel-conf' is up to date.
make[2]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/linux-4.14.15'
make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/linux-4.14.15'
echo done > debian/stamp/conf/minimal_debian
exec debian/rules
nothing to be done.

and stopped.

if you look through the rest of the output I posted above its not there
AFAICT.

Cheers

MF

> Regards
>
> Michael
>
>
> .-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.
>
> Power is danger.
> -- The Centurion, "Balance of Terror", stardate 1709.2
>
>

Re: kernel 4.14.15 compilation using GCC 8 in unstable.......