Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[piorunz]

On 28/04/2022 18:05, Stefan Monnier wrote:

I finally got it working! I blame lack of attention to details, old age,
shaky hands, and < 100% vision. I uninstalled the ssd, looked all over


I consider these kinds of reaction as a variation of Stockholm syndrome:
when something doesn't work under GNU/Linux, many people will take it
for granted that it's because they're not using Windows (or macOS,
as the case may be).

If something doesn't work on my wife's Mac, she may blame my OpenWRT's
router or my "independent" ISP, or as a last recourse she may blame
herself.  Apple is always off the hook.


Yes indeed we could observe very similar reaction here in this thread.
All sources of problem should have been considered equally, no deciding
that it's definitely SSD's fault, or Linux fault, or any other fault,
without exploring and depleting all possible options:)

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[A_Man_Without_Clue]

On 5/5/22 10:23, Borden wrote:

Good to see that the issue was just mis-installation, as I recently upgraded from a Samsung 2TB EVO 
to a Crucial 2 TB drive without issue (well, I had PLENTY of issues with Samsung's "customer 
service" and Newegg's "return policy").

Resolved never to buy Samsung products again, as their "warranty" is worthless 
when nobody will honour it. I'll stop buying from Newegg once I use up the credit I was 
compelled to accept after they wouldn't let me return the drives made magically defective 
by Samsung's Magician.
  
Apparently Crucial has a marginally better customer service reviews, so I've tried them and haven't had issues (so far).





Korean companies are know for poor customer services. I will never buy 
or I just don't expect anything if I choose to buy their products.

Re: Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Borden]

Good to see that the issue was just mis-installation, as I recently upgraded 
from a Samsung 2TB EVO to a Crucial 2 TB drive without issue (well, I had 
PLENTY of issues with Samsung's "customer service" and Newegg's "return 
policy").

Resolved never to buy Samsung products again, as their "warranty" is worthless 
when nobody will honour it. I'll stop buying from Newegg once I use up the 
credit I was compelled to accept after they wouldn't let me return the drives 
made magically defective by Samsung's Magician.
 
Apparently Crucial has a marginally better customer service reviews, so I've 
tried them and haven't had issues (so far).

[SOLVED] Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 14:17 Tom Browder  wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 12:12 Alexander V. Makartsev 
> wrote:
>
>> On 27.04.2022 20:37, Tom Browder wrote:
>> > ...
>> > If either of those fail to see it, I’m afraid I toasted it. I don’t
>> > think that will qualify for a return.
>
>
> I finally got it working! I blame lack of attention to details, old age,
> shaky hands, and < 100% vision. I uninstalled the ssd, looked all over
> closely (again) and realized I had not really installed it at all!
> Yesterday I could not see that it would fit in the space for the hard drive
> carrier because I had it upside down!  I finally got it together (even
> missing two screws I hope I can find later) and the drive is now recognized.
>
> Thank you all for the support, and I cannot blame Crucial one iota.
>
> Debian on, my fellow Debianites!
>
> -Tom
>
>

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[piorunz]

On 27/04/2022 18:11, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

It is next to impossible to actually mishandle and "toast" a device
simply by unpacking it and connecting to a SATA port. (Even when PC is
powered on¹).
SSDs are not fragile, they are electrically compatible with SATA
standard, so both data and power port parts won't do any damage to a
device, no matter how old or new the hardware is.


Agree. On my Debian server, I've been actually hot-plugging SATA drives,
both HDD and SSD for years. Never had a problem. Linux detects
everything on the fly :)

If new SSD cannot be detected in OP Toshiba laptop, its most likely
faulty SSD or user error. Nothing to do with Debian.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[piorunz]

On 27/04/2022 12:57, Tom Browder wrote:

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 06:42 Christian Britz mailto:cbr...@t-online.de>> wrote:
...

I have seem some indications on the web though, which suggest there
might be an ISO image for updating the drive too. What is the exact
model name?


Crucial MX500 1000GB 2.5-INCH SOLID STATE DRIVE

Thanks, Christian

-Tom

I've got Crucial MX500 SSDs, 250GB versions, they work perfectly fine
with any system, not just Windows. I use them on Debian in RAID1 mode.
Always worked fine from first start.

If your SSD cannot be detected in BIOS, that's a problem with the laptop
(compatibility issue, or SSD is broken, or something else). Plug the SSD
to another computer to check if it works, if not, return it to the seller.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Celejar]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:08:04 +0500
"Alexander V. Makartsev"  wrote:

> On 27.04.2022 16:06, Tom Browder wrote:
> > I am trying to replace the original hard drive on an old Toshiba 
> > laptop with a 1 TB SSD from Crucial. (I had recently successfully done 
> > that in an old Dell Latitude and had no problems.)
> >
> > I first did a clean install of Debian 11 on the old drive to ensure 
> > the laptop works okay. Then I installed the new SSD and it can't find 
> > the drive. From what I can find at Crucial, I need to install their 
> > Storage Executive program on a Windows host, look up the SSD to a 
> > USB/SATA connector on that host, and configure or install the firmware 
> > onto the SSD.
> >
> I've never heard anything like that and I've worked with many 
> consumer-grade SSDs.
> Usually all SSDs "just work". They may come pre-partitioned and 
> pre-formatted, but this could be reconfigured with any standard utility 
> programs.
> The only thing I can think of, is that it could require usage of some 
> vendor-specific proprietary software to setup hardware encryption and/or
> to update currently flashed firmware to newer versions.

There's OPAL. Presumably uncommon on consumer-grade drives, but it does
require special software to configure (although not necessarily vendor
specific software) and can be a pain to work with (at least if one isn't
familiar with them, as I wasn't when I encountered it in the wild, in a
second-hand machine ;))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal_Storage_Specification
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Self-encrypting_drives

-- 
Celejar

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 12:12 Alexander V. Makartsev 
wrote:

> On 27.04.2022 20:37, Tom Browder wrote:
> > ...
> > If either of those fail to see it, I’m afraid I toasted it. I don’t
> > think that will qualify for a return.


I finally got it working! I blame lack of attention to details, old age,
shaky hands, and < 100% vision. I uninstalled the ssd, looked all over
closely (again) and realized I had not really installed it at all!
Yesterday I could not see that it would fit in the space for the hard drive
carrier because I had it upside down!  I finally got it together (even
missing two screws I hope I can find later) and the drive is now recognized.

Thank you all for the support, and I cannot blame Crucial one iota.

Debian on, my fellow Debianites!

-Tom

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 27.04.2022 20:37, Tom Browder wrote:

...
If either of those fail to see it, I’m afraid I toasted it. I don’t 
think that will qualify for a return.

...


What makes you think that way?
It is next to impossible to actually mishandle and "toast" a device 
simply by unpacking it and connecting to a SATA port. (Even when PC is 
powered on¹).
SSDs are not fragile, they are electrically compatible with SATA 
standard, so both data and power port parts won't do any damage to a 
device, no matter how old or new the hardware is.
If you won't manage to get it working with another PC, then you simply 
got a faulty product and have a warranty to get it replaced.
I've seen a fair share of faulty brand new devices in my life, memory 
sticks, motherboards, HDDs.
This is rare nowadays and I don't handle large volumes of PC parts 
anymore, but it still happen here and there.



¹ It is still a risk and is not recommended at all. It is always safer 
to do any work with powered off computer and disconnected battery if it 
is a laptop.


--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Felix Miata]

Tom Browder composed on 2022-04-27 10:37 (UTC-0500):

> I removed the old drive, installed the new SSD, then booted off a Debian
> live dvd.

> It never found the drive, so I may have killed it. 

Killed it how? My Linux-only 120G & 240G MX500s were mere PNP, the smaller
originally setup in a tower, then moved to a Toshiba Satellite A205-S5831 laptop
with no changes needed except for NIC MAC.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:11 Keith Bainbridge 
wrote:

> Tom
>
> Did you remove the old drive and try the SSD using the installer?
>

I removed the old drive, installed the new SSD, then booted off a Debian
live dvd.

It never found the drive, so I may have killed it. I am twiddling my thumbs
until I can leave the house, drive to my storage unit and find my USB/SATA
external cable, drive to my church, get the laptop, bring it home,
uninstall the SSD, then try it hanging off my main Linux laptop (or my
Windows host ) just to see.

If either of those fail to see it, I’m afraid I toasted it. I don’t think
that will qualify for a return.

BTW, my last four SSDs have been Samsung—no issues at all.

-Tom

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Keith Bainbridge]

Tom

Did you remove the old drive and try the SSD using the installer?



On 27 April 2022 11:06:20 am UTC, Tom Browder  wrote:
>I am trying to replace the original hard drive on an old Toshiba laptop
>with a 1 TB SSD from Crucial. (I had recently successfully done that in an
>old Dell Latitude and had no problems.)
>
>I first did a clean install of Debian 11 on the old drive to ensure the
>laptop works okay. Then I installed the new SSD and it can't find the
>drive. From what I can find at Crucial, I need to install their Storage
>Executive program on a Windows host, hook up the SSD to a USB/SATA
>connector on that host, and configure or install the firmware onto the SSD.
>
>I was foolish not to have researched their SSD use on a Linux host, but I
>got lulled into their "upgrade your computer" site that told me the exact
>models that were hardware-compatible.
>
>Of course I may have fried the SSD, but I am fairly confident that the
>device is operable.
>
>Suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
>Best regards,
>
>-Tom

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Dan Ritter]

Tom Browder wrote: 
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 06:42 Christian Britz  wrote:
> ...
> 
> I have seem some indications on the web though, which suggest there
> > might be an ISO image for updating the drive too. What is the exact
> > model name?
> >
> 
> Crucial MX500 1000GB 2.5-INCH SOLID STATE DRIVE


I have dozens of these in service as SATA disks, no special
firmware has ever been used. Completely plug and play.

-dsr-

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 8:48 AM Anssi Saari  wrote:
> Tom Browder  writes:
...
> Looks like the SB800 south bridge supports SATA 3.0 6Gb/s interfaces so
> it doesn't seem like it's the problem here. But I have no idea what the
> problem could be, other than a faulty drive.

Well, as I said originally, I could have fried it, but I hope not. I
think I will have to find my USB/SATA cable.

Thanks.

-Tom

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Anssi Saari]

Tom Browder  writes:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 07:08 Alexander V. Makartsev  
> wrote:
> ...
>
> The laptop is a Toshiba C655D-S5136 Satellite.
> The SSD is a Crucial MX500 1000GB 2.5 inch SSD.

Some quick specs from
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/toshiba-satellite-c655d-review/:

Price as reviewed   $398
Processor   1.5 GHz AMD Fusion E-240 Dual Core
Memory  3GB, 667MHz DDR3 RAM
Hard drive  250GB 5,400rpm
Chipset ID1510 + SB800
GraphicsAMD Radeon HD 6310
Operating systemWindows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)
Dimensions (WD) 15 x 9.8 inches
Height  1.1-1.5 inches
Screen size (diagonal)  15.6 inches
System weight / Weight  5.1 / 5.8 pounds
with AC adapter

Looks like the SB800 south bridge supports SATA 3.0 6Gb/s interfaces so
it doesn't seem like it's the problem here. But I have no idea what the
problem could be, other than a faulty drive.

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Christian Britz wrote:
> I found it. https://www.crucial.com/support/ssd-support/mx500-support,
> there seem to be two versions. Click on the appropriate blue button, a
> zip file will be downloaded which contains the ISO. Apparently this can
> not be written to USB.

Both of them look like they shall boot where Debian ISOs can boot.

Boot equipment for legacy BIOS is ISOLINUX. For EFI it is GRUB2.
Both are exposed for optical media and for hard-disk-like media like in
Debian's layout for i386 or amd64. (Once invented for Fedora.)

Besides the boot equipment i see only two significant files
  -r--r--r--1 0011019792 Oct 30  2018 '/boot/corepure64.gz'
  -r--r--r--1 00 4491536 Oct 30  2018 '/boot/vmlinuz64'
or in the younger ISO
  -r--r--r--1 0011821309 Aug 17  2020 '/boot/corepure64.gz'
  -r--r--r--1 00 4491536 Aug 17  2020 '/boot/vmlinuz64'
A kernel and its initrd ?

Whatever one might think about their firmware installation demands,
at least they seem to be not locked into MS-Windows. :))


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2022-04-27 07:46:27 -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> And for future reference, what brand of SSDs (and memory) do you use?

A few months ago, when I looked at what was recommended to change
the SSD disk of my laptop, I found that the Samsung 870 EVO 1TB
was generally recommended. So this is what I chose, and it works
perfectly. And I got around 10× to 200× raw speedups!

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2022-04-27 17:08:04 +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> I've never heard anything like that and I've worked with many
> consumer-grade SSDs.
> Usually all SSDs "just work". They may come pre-partitioned and
> pre-formatted, but this could be reconfigured with any standard utility
> programs.

Yes. FYI, when I had to change the SSD disk of my laptop,
I connected it via a SATA-USB adapter to repartition the
new disk and copy the data.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Christian Britz]

On 2022-04-27 14:46 UTC+0200, Tom Browder wrote:

> And for future reference, what brand of SSDs (and memory) do you use?

Currently I use what is built in to my laptop, a SK Hynix SSD. The Raspi
home server is connected to a traditional hard disk.

In the past I had a Samsung EVO SSD for home use. It worked out of the
box. I do not know if fit your needs for the commercial grade server
which you want to install.

I can not give any current recommendations for memory, sorry.

-- 
http://www.cb-fraggle.de

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 27.04.2022 17:17, Tom Browder wrote:
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 07:08 Alexander V. Makartsev 
 wrote:

...

The laptop is a Toshiba C655D-S5136 Satellite.
The SSD is a Crucial MX500 1000GB 2.5 inch SSD.

Thanks, Alexander.

-Tom

Crucial MX500 is based on SM2258 controller IC from Silicon Motion.
In general, I usually select SSDs based on controller ICs from Phison. 
They are in my experience have better backward-compatibility with older 
hardware.
The make\brand of the SSD itself doesn't really matter, if you choose 
appropriately the rest of SSD parts (i.e. NAND type, bits per cell, etc)


There is an one workaround you should try:
Inside BIOS of the laptop, check if there is an option to switch between 
protocols in HDD or Chipset sections. They could be called "Legacy", 
"Native" and "AHCI".

Make sure to set it to "AHCI", which should be default for any SSDs.
Some SSDs will still work in "Legacy" mode, but it could cause a 
compatibility issues.


--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 07:30 Christian Britz  wrote:
…

> I found it. https://www.crucial.com/support/ssd-support/mx500-support,
> there seem to be two versions. Click on the appropriate blue button, a
> zip file will be downloaded which contains the ISO. Apparently this can
> not be written to USB.
>
> --
> http://www.cb-fraggle.de
>

Thank you, Christian!

And for future reference, what brand of SSDs (and memory) do you use?

Blessings,

-Tom

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Christian Britz]

On 2022-04-27 14:22 UTC+0200, Christian Britz wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2022-04-27 13:57 UTC+0200, Tom Browder wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 06:42 Christian Britz > > wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> I have seem some indications on the web though, which suggest there
>> might be an ISO image for updating the drive too. What is the exact
>> model name?
>>
>>
>> Crucial MX500 1000GB 2.5-INCH SOLID STATE DRIVE
> 
> 
> They don't seem to offer the ISO image anymore, at least I did not find
> it on their support site, even though it is mentioned several times.
> What a shame! You should really get rid of that thing if possible.
> 


I found it. https://www.crucial.com/support/ssd-support/mx500-support,
there seem to be two versions. Click on the appropriate blue button, a
zip file will be downloaded which contains the ISO. Apparently this can
not be written to USB.

-- 
http://www.cb-fraggle.de

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Christian Britz]

On 2022-04-27 13:57 UTC+0200, Tom Browder wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 06:42 Christian Britz  > wrote:
> ...
> 
> I have seem some indications on the web though, which suggest there
> might be an ISO image for updating the drive too. What is the exact
> model name?
> 
> 
> Crucial MX500 1000GB 2.5-INCH SOLID STATE DRIVE


They don't seem to offer the ISO image anymore, at least I did not find
it on their support site, even though it is mentioned several times.
What a shame! You should really get rid of that thing if possible.

-- 
http://www.cb-fraggle.de

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 07:08 Alexander V. Makartsev 
wrote:
...

The laptop is a Toshiba C655D-S5136 Satellite.
The SSD is a Crucial MX500 1000GB 2.5 inch SSD.

Thanks, Alexander.

-Tom

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 27.04.2022 16:06, Tom Browder wrote:
I am trying to replace the original hard drive on an old Toshiba 
laptop with a 1 TB SSD from Crucial. (I had recently successfully done 
that in an old Dell Latitude and had no problems.)


I first did a clean install of Debian 11 on the old drive to ensure 
the laptop works okay. Then I installed the new SSD and it can't find 
the drive. From what I can find at Crucial, I need to install their 
Storage Executive program on a Windows host, look up the SSD to a 
USB/SATA connector on that host, and configure or install the firmware 
onto the SSD.


I've never heard anything like that and I've worked with many 
consumer-grade SSDs.
Usually all SSDs "just work". They may come pre-partitioned and 
pre-formatted, but this could be reconfigured with any standard utility 
programs.
The only thing I can think of, is that it could require usage of some 
vendor-specific proprietary software to setup hardware encryption and/or

to update currently flashed firmware to newer versions.

I think, you've encountered a hardware compatibility issue between an 
old ICH controller on the host and a SATA controller on the SSD drive.
Some Samsung SSDs with their custom drive controller ICs were affected 
by this issue, refusing to work with some older chipsets and at lower 
SATA speeds.
I suspect it could be done on purpose, because vendor doesn't want to 
look bad when people benchmark their new drive and post sub-par results 
online.


Can you provide exact model\make of your host and the SSD drive?

--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 06:42 Christian Britz  wrote:
...

I have seem some indications on the web though, which suggest there
> might be an ISO image for updating the drive too. What is the exact
> model name?
>

Crucial MX500 1000GB 2.5-INCH SOLID STATE DRIVE

Thanks, Christian

-Tom

Re: Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Christian Britz]

On 2022-04-27 13:06 UTC+0200, Tom Browder wrote:

> drive. From what I can find at Crucial, I need to install their Storage
> Executive program on a Windows host, hook up the SSD to a USB/SATA
> connector on that host, and configure or install the firmware onto the SSD.

Sounds really crappy. A drive which must be preconfigured by a
Windows-only tool before first use? If possible, return it to the dealer.

I have seem some indications on the web though, which suggest there
might be an ISO image for updating the drive too. What is the exact
model name?

-- 
http://www.cb-fraggle.de

Crucial SSDs and Debian Bullseye

[Tom Browder]

I am trying to replace the original hard drive on an old Toshiba laptop
with a 1 TB SSD from Crucial. (I had recently successfully done that in an
old Dell Latitude and had no problems.)

I first did a clean install of Debian 11 on the old drive to ensure the
laptop works okay. Then I installed the new SSD and it can't find the
drive. From what I can find at Crucial, I need to install their Storage
Executive program on a Windows host, hook up the SSD to a USB/SATA
connector on that host, and configure or install the firmware onto the SSD.

I was foolish not to have researched their SSD use on a Linux host, but I
got lulled into their "upgrade your computer" site that told me the exact
models that were hardware-compatible.

Of course I may have fried the SSD, but I am fairly confident that the
device is operable.

Suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

-Tom