Re: I can't believe this
On Thu, Mar 18, 1999 at 09:42:32AM -0800, fockface dickmeat wrote: Could you tell me how? Run pppconfig from the pppconfig package. Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' Debian http://www.debian.org finger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann GNUhttp://www.gnu.org master.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09
Re: I can't believe this
Firstly I using my winnt box, so I am not exactly sure how this email will be formatted (its a new install). Which one? Sounds a bit like the search for the holy grail. Linux is not there yet for a desktop workstation. Hopefully when the gnome/some window manager are easier to install, linux can be nominated as a candidate in equal contention with microsoft and apple. I just completed a WINNT install and in comparison to debian some of the following things stood out: I did not know any of the IRQs and ports for the hardware NT did not detect all of my hardware automatically and it was necessary to download device drivers (video card, sound card, printer and zip drive) No compiling or relinking was required Performance is OK, but not as good as a cut down unix/linux installation Stability - seems OK for a workstation. Generally the machine is not run for more than a week continuously The only advantage of having a GUI install is that some useful guidance and help are displayed as one proceeds. microsoft could do this a lot better. Generally it seems that winnt is easier to use than linux. On-line help is good for some aspects of the operating system. Well when you find something better than winnt or debian I would be interested -Original Message- From: Jonathan Guthrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Richard Lyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: eferen1 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; debian-user@lists.debian.org debian-user@lists.debian.org; recipient.list.not.shown:; recipient.list.not.shown:; Date: Friday, 19 March 1999 2:58 Subject: Re: I can't believe this On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Richard Lyon wrote: Logically it may be better to spend some money on an os which doesn't require specialist training to understand. Right. Which one might that be? (I've used dozens of OSes and I haven't yet come across one like that.) -- Jonathan Guthrie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Brokersys +281-895-8101 http://www.brokersys.com/ 12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX 77014, USA
Re: I can't believe this
On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Richard Lyon wrote: Logically it may be better to spend some money on an os which doesn't require specialist training to understand. Right. Which one might that be? (I've used dozens of OSes and I haven't yet come across one like that.) -- Jonathan Guthrie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Brokersys +281-895-8101 http://www.brokersys.com/ 12703 Veterans Memorial #106, Houston, TX 77014, USA
Re: I can't believe this
Could you tell me how? From: Lawrence Walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: debian-user@lists.debian.org debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: I can't believe this Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:07:23 -0800 (PST) Well I have to say that setting up ppp in debian was the easyist, of all the Linux distros and any other OS I have installed. *--* Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *--* Voice: 425.739.4247 *--* Fax: 425.827.9577 *--* HTTP://www.otak-k.com/~lawrence/ -- - - - - - - O t a k i n c . - - - - - On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Steve Lamb wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:52:46 -0500, Ben Collins wrote: I think these criticisms are overstated in many cases. Ever try to get ppp running on Solaris? I have installed many distributions. The initial install is only a portion of the problem. The rest comes in getting the system configured the way that you need it. That is where Debian excels. Yes, I have gotten Solaris's PPP configured and, yes it did suck royally. But that's not the point, Debian does have short comings, and poeple are aware of them. No matter how much they overstated it, we need to address these issues. I personally don't think that the PPP setup needs work. I found it quite simple. So simple that the first time I set up Debian I missed it and feel like a complete putz. Windows PPP setup is harder because it is in several different and non-obvious places. Sure, Debian may have problems, but this isn't one of them. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBNuQ9gnpf7K2LbpnFEQIL0QCfe3wchfP4+wTeVSx6FEo4nk7YUGwAn0Cj N1LV3Mtqo1PHoAAZuDpQ5zTf =orQE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: I can't believe this
debianuser writes: Could you tell me how [to set up ppp]? Run pppconfig as root to configure ppp. Use pon to bring up the connection and poff to shut it down. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
Re: I can't believe this
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:42:32 PST, fockface dickmeat wrote: Could you tell me how? pppconfig - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBNvF0bHpf7K2LbpnFEQIrEQCgt9bDb6hlujb2AEYWv5lDzDpXk6YAoN3z HN4xnxOuDEbPGfczkGJInpFG =mEiV -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: I can't believe this
In regard to debian's install being difficult for newbies, there seems a simple solution. At the beginning of the install process have a menu that asks what competency level the user is. (beginner, intermediate, advanced) Then have an install procedure suitable for that level. Some menus could ask questions of the beginning user and a recommended basic system could be installed and configured. Let the system automaticly setup partions, config ppp, setup xwindows, and some Office apps. I know there will be some arguments about what a basic system should be. Still all in all, this does not seem as if it would be that hard to do. For the record, my former school gave us shell accounts on solaris. For tech support I got a sheet of paper with about 25 unix commands on it. Being lazy I installed 4dos on my home pc and aliased the dos commands the unix ones. They became familiar more quickly that way. One day I found Debian on the net. I downloaded 0.93 and have been happy with Debian ever since. Debian Gnu/Linux is just not as hard as people believe. Tom
Re: I can't believe this
Tommy Malloy wrote: In regard to debian's install being difficult for newbies, there seems a DIFFICULT??? I find the install for Debian to be one of the easiest around. If it boots, it will install! I have had more trouble installing M$ products than I have had installing Debian. simple solution. At the beginning of the install process have a menu that asks what competency level the user is. (beginner, intermediate, advanced) Then have an install procedure suitable for that level. Some menus could ask questions of the beginning user and a recommended basic system could be installed and configured. Let the system automaticly setup partions, config ppp, setup xwindows, and some Office apps. I know there will be some arguments about what a basic system This is a good Idea. should be. Still all in all, this does not seem as if it would be that hard to do. For the record, my former school gave us shell accounts on solaris. For tech support I got a sheet of paper with about 25 unix commands on it. Being lazy I installed 4dos on my home pc and aliased the dos commands the unix ones. They became familiar more quickly that way. One day I found Debian on the net. I downloaded 0.93 and have been happy with Debian ever since. Debian Gnu/Linux is just not as hard as people believe. It's Not Hard at all! now if i could just figure out mail i would be laughing ;)
Re: I can't believe this
I see a lot of squabbling on debian-devel and there is doubtless more unseen in debian-private about political issues from every conceivable angle. Actually there is much less on debian-private. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
Re: I can't believe this
George Bonser wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Ed Cogburn wrote: I don't see Deb spending a lot of time playing politics. I don't see Deb developers spending a lot of time on other mailing lists or newsgroups proselytizing Debian over other dists. For the most part, we do our thing, and let word-of-mouth bring new people to Debian. Whether Debian can survive the long run with just word-of-mouth promotion is an open question, though. I see a lot of squabbling on debian-devel and there is doubtless more unseen in debian-private about political issues from every conceivable angle. It can sometimes account for a full day's traffic. Is that energy wasted? I think it is to varying degrees. Debian will sometimes get so bogged down on an issue the rest of the world doen't give a rat's pair of hips about or on someones novel interpretation of what they think something in a license might mean if looked at from some goofy angle. But that is part of what makes Debian Debian. I think I'll start lurking on debian-devel to see whats being said. Not having seen whats going on in debian-devel, I'll agree here. Red Hat sees its job as being the definition of Linux. When someone thinks Linux, you are supposed to think Red Hat. They do not particularly CARE if it is GOOD Linux but that it is THE Linux. I can't find the article that appeared in the past several days but it is the one comparing Red Hat with Heinz ketchup. They are a business. That means their goal is to sell things that people want (or convince them they want it) and make money. Their goal is to make the average person who has NEVER tried Red Hat before and is not much of an internet junkie grab the Red Hat box when they go to the computer store for the first time to buy Linux. Agreed. What WE need to do is emphasize that nobody ever gets fired for thowing away Red Hat and upgrading to Debian. If it really gets to this point, it'll be too late, I fear. --- Actually I wish I could have rescinded my previous post. First I wasn't aware of the fact (pointed out in the last debian-news newsletter) that Debian had its own booth at the recent Linux conference. My statement about Debian relying primarily on word-of-mouth was obviously very incorrect. Not that I disagree with this, this is exactly the kind of 'visibility' we need. I thought this would be the kind of action a commercial company using Deb as a base distribution would do for us. Second, my remark about 'proselytizing' isn't entirely correct, although I was referring to Deb developers. I've proselytized on Debian a few times in various Linux related newsgroups, and if I'm doing it there are bound to be others. I'll take some time and read the 'politics' going on in debian-devel, as you say, before I comment about this topic again. -- Ed C.
Re: I can't believe this
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to admit, there were several times even *I* was ready to delete everything Linux on my PC - but my continual displeasure with everything MicroSoft kept me going. Hear Hear I was the same. Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) PGP Key available, reply with pgpkey as subject. - I couldn't shoot a game of pool with a shotgun. -- Sam Beckett - Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out!
Re: I can't believe this
I'm now taking a course in Linux. It's the only way I can learn it. Dos, Windows, Assembler, AppleDos, etc are all self -intuitive. Linux is not. Have you tried a good book like Running LINUX by Welsh and Kaufman (O'Reilly)? It helped me a lot. The linux HOWTOs are pretty good also. Seems a bit crazy to use a free os and then have to spend money on training. Logically it may be better to spend some money on an os which doesn't require specialist training to understand. Regards ..
Re: I can't believe this
George Bonser wrote: On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Adam Linford - Prima House wrote: The point I'm trying to make is that effort often returns satisfaction and knowledge, which is why I'm here. Debian is more than just software, it's politics. Adam WHich I personally see as a weak point if it gets in the way of software development. It takes a lot of energy to play politics. I don't see Deb spending a lot of time playing politics. I don't see Deb developers spending a lot of time on other mailing lists or newsgroups proselytizing Debian over other dists. For the most part, we do our thing, and let word-of-mouth bring new people to Debian. Whether Debian can survive the long run with just word-of-mouth promotion is an open question, though. -- Ed C.
Re: I can't believe this
Folks, My 2- cents: I've come from a background of writing dataacq apps for DOS/Windows for product manufacturing. Maybe that gives me a leg up to getting a Linux system running, maybe it doesn't. Still, I found that downloading a dozen or so floppies and installing to a dual-disk NT system was pretty painless. I didn't really have to think very hard about the choices offered to me and, other than the length of time it took to download the distribution over a 28.8 modem, I managed to get a very stable machine up rather quickly. My wife and 6 year old son have very rapidly learned what it takes to get useful results from this system and our overall experience has been very pleasant. (Of cousre, having access to this mailing list has been of imeasureable help! :-) I feel that most of the press coverage of Linux has been tainted by the commercial marketing efforts of certain distributions. If I were a writer and had no knowledge of the subject matter of my current task, I would first look to other media to see what gets the most play and work from there. If Debian is to suceed in the Linux markeplace they need to increase their marketing influence, but I think that's not their real goal; they instead want to create the best distribution available and hope that those who truly care will find their way through the Linux jungle. 'til next we type... HAVE FUN!! -- Jesse
Re: I can't believe this
George Bonser wrote: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Jesse Evans wrote: I feel that most of the press coverage of Linux has been tainted by the commercial marketing efforts of certain distributions. If I were a writer and had no knowledge of the subject matter of my current task, I would first look to other media to see what gets the most play and work from there. If Debian is to suceed in the Linux markeplace they need to increase their marketing influence, but I think that's not their real goal; they instead want to create the best distribution available and hope that those who truly care will find their way through the Linux jungle. Which brings up a point I have oten pondered, if Red Hat's install is so great, why doesn't Debian just COPY it ... massage it a bit to make it use some different paths, etc, and THEN concentrate on IMPROVING it. Their current method of trying to invent a better wheel from scratch seems to be a waste of resources. It appears to be a(nother) very egotistical stance on the part of the Debian developers. Hell, just use the best thing that is out there, modify it to fit your needs, and then improve on it from there. Otherwise they are always going to be trying to catch up and wasting resources. Maybe if Debian could identify the weak points in the distro, adopt better ways from other distros as an intermediate measure and then get them completely integrated as time goes by might allow much faster progress and a more useable distro in the meantime. I agree somewhat, but... I had done 3 or 4 RedHat installs until I encountered a certain old machine at work (486/33, 2 SCSI controllers). I could not get a RedHat install (5.1 or 5.2) to work. Period. No way, no how. Always started swapping like crazy at a certain point, about the time I started partitioning the disks. Tried Debian for the hell of it, worked the first time, didn't find it unduly difficult. I guess what I'm saying is: * I'm not sure the installation itself needs radical fixing. * Please preserve robustness. * Maybe we need to represent a clear alternative. * Maybe RedHat has its priorities wrong (flash over functionality?). On that last point, let me insert another bit of personal experience: I was installing RedHat 5.1 on my machine at home, and got to the disk partitioning stage. I could not do what I needed to do from Disk Druid. The sequence of steps needed to partition a certain way was simply not accessible from the (pseudo-)GUI. So I used fdisk and could do it without any problem. What I'm saying there is that if you provide a GUI, you better be willing to spend a *lot* of time thinking it out and debugging it, because doing it right is a lot more complex than most people realize. (I know, I've written commercial software). Otherwise, you trap people instead of enabling them. So far, I feel this way about these two major distributions: * For a machine that I want to just play with a bunch of shit on, I'd pick RedHat. There's RPMs of everything under the sun out there; some of them work great, some are shit; they all install and uninstall *real fast*. That's what I want for my home machine, especially since its fast and has a lot of disk space, so I can store and run all that shit I download. * For a machine that needs to be ultra-consistent, dependable, up-to-date, locked down, I'd pick Debian. dselect and dpkg contribute to most of those qualities. That's what I want for any server that I use for work, especially since it's likely to be some old weird 486, where you *need* all those Debian installation floppies with all the drivers. (Hell, come to think of it, it might even be a m68k machine, in which case RedHat wouldn't even be an alternative...) The other thing is that I know everything on the CD-ROM is free, and free/contrib/non-free is clearly identified on the ftp sites; that's important to know in a work setting -- nothing ideological about it at all. I wonder how the rest of you feel about this distinction I've made?
Re: I can't believe this
On Tuesday 9 March, Kieth Murphy wrote * I'm not sure the installation itself needs radical fixing. * Please preserve robustness. * Maybe we need to represent a clear alternative. * Maybe RedHat has its priorities wrong (flash over functionality?). I agree with these opinions, and moreover, I can possibly provide a useful point of view in that I am a newbie to Linux, though not to computing. Before leaping into Linux (as I desperately wanted to) I made sure I read everything about Linux, and the major distributions first. After accumulating as much knowledge as I could, I decided that Debian was the one for me. I understood from my analysis that RH was more user friendly in it's installation process than Debian, and was told many times to use RH first time round, but the distributions stand for much more than their software components. The reason I went for Debian is because I agree with the ideology behind it, as well as the more technical reasons. I would have used Debian even if the installation process was much harder. I know that this is not the only reason as to why I chose Debian, but I went through the install, Yeah, I had to do a bit of reading, but Linux is, to me, about learning and functionality. It's the reason I left Winblows. The point I'm trying to make is that effort often returns satisfaction and knowledge, which is why I'm here. Debian is more than just software, it's politics. Adam
Re: I can't believe this
George Bonser said: //http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/opensource/390823.html // //zdnet did a review of Debian. Included are such comments as: // //Debian GNU/Linux 2.0 ($38.95 direct) ... //...Windows users should steer clear of Debian. // //...The company says it will include a new application installer in Debian //GNU/Linux 2.1. // //Uhm, which company would this be? // //...Debian is distributed by Linux Press... // //Yeah, and a whole bunch of other people. Basicly the article's slant is //be afraid of Debian, be very afraid. --- Oh, and consider the page before it, on Caldera: http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/opensource/390822.html One of Caldera's greatest strengths is KDE (Kool Desktop Environment), a graphical desktop environment that essentially makes Linux look and act like Windows. Sure, KDE is a pretty good (I've used it also). But, the whole purpose in choosing Linux is because you would rather not use MS Windows. Aside from that, the quoted statement above just *sounds* like, This is as 'good' as Windows 95, so we like it. As far as comparisons go, for the distributions listed there, I've used RedHat. Debian, to me, has been 400% easier to manage than RedHat. The difference between RPM and Debian's package system is insane; RPMs made a total mess of my system. Also, things like the PPP setup on Debian was much easier. Red Hat is known for its package manager (RPM), an open-source program that is used in many other distributions as well. RPM lets you safely install and uninstall applications, avoid conflicts between programs, and even upgrade the kernel itself without having to reinstall your system software or files. That's crazy, and it's certainly not true. If you're trying Linux for the first time, Red Hat is the best choice. If I had to choose for the first time again, there is no doubt in my mind that I would go with Debian. Period. b.
Re: I can't believe this
On Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 08:44:34PM -0800, George Bonser wrote: http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/opensource/390823.html zdnet did a review of Debian. Included are such comments as: Debian GNU/Linux 2.0 ($38.95 direct) ... ...Windows users should steer clear of Debian. Aside from the obvious errors, I think we should note the criticisms, they are actually quite true (they didn't beat around the bush when mentioning them either). -- --- - - --- - - - --- Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux OpenLDAP Core - [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] UnixGroup Admin - Jordan Systems The Choice of the GNU Generation -- -- - - - --- --- -- - - --- - --
Re: I can't believe this
George Bonser wrote: I think these criticisms are overstated in many cases. Ever try to get ppp running on Solaris? I have installed many distributions. The initial install is only a portion of the problem. The rest comes in getting the system configured the way that you need it. That is where Debian excels. I've tried most of the distributions. I started with slackware, dabbled with redhat, tried debian 1.3 but wasn't able to get past dselect back then, used suse for more that a year, and now I'm settled with debian. IMO, dselect takes a little getting used to, but after playing with it for a while, it really is quite powerful. I really like apt though. Debian has been the *easiest* to get a ppp connection up and running. I've never really had any problem with X, except for my early experiences with trident card (don't go there!). I can't really find any criticisms that were mentioned that reading through the docs, or asking on this list wouldn't solve. Maybe one of us should write a rebuttal to point out the author's misconceptions about debian. Maybe it might even get published. Oh, BTW, has anyone ever tried porting the SuSE sax X configuration program to Debian? I downloaded the source but have not gotten it to build yet ... still shanging stuff in Makefiles, etc. I don't know, but if you manage, let us know. sax is one of the programs I miss from SuSE. Mark
Re: I can't believe this
On 1999-03-07 22:47, Mark Wagnon wrote: George Bonser wrote: I've tried most of the distributions. I started with slackware, dabbled with redhat, tried debian 1.3 but wasn't able to get past dselect back then, used suse for more that a year, and now I'm settled with debian. Nothing beats the Windows installation feeling - click next, set time, click next you're doing GREAT, click yeah, select printer, click next. Done (of course I'm leaving out the 3, 5 or 10 reboots). The clicking gives some accomplishment and there are visual feedback that we progressing - doesn't that Printer Test feel good (even when you KNOW that it will work)? [stuff deleted] Maybe one of us should write a rebuttal to point out the author's misconceptions about debian. Maybe it might even get published. I would say the odds are 100 to 1 that the author is going to eat his _opnion_. The odds of getting any response is of course also against you. /Allan -- Allan M. Wind Phone: 781.938.5272 (home) 687 Main St., 2nd fl. Fax:781.938.6641 (fax/modem) Woburn, MA 01801Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home)
Re: I can't believe this
Yeah, and a whole bunch of other people. Basicly the article's slant is be afraid of Debian, be very afraid. I couldn't believe the way they portrayed Debian as a commercial product -- even the X days of support (that's your job George:-). The one strong positive they noted -- the package management -- wasn't explained very clearly at all. Gosh, after reading that article you'd wonder how Debian became the second-largest Linux...what a bunch of idiots we are for running it, eh?! :-) I think this calls for a calm, well-reasoned letter (perhaps from the project leader or someone in a Debian position of authority?) explaining the non-commercial slant of Debian and correcting a few errors. -- Regards, | REDMOND, WA (API) --- MICROSOFT (MSFT) announced today . | the the official release date for the new operating Randy | system Windows 2000 will be delayed until the second | quarter of 1901 due to year 2000 problems.
Re: I can't believe this
On Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 09:43:11PM -0800, George Bonser wrote: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Ben Collins wrote: Aside from the obvious errors, I think we should note the criticisms, they are actually quite true (they didn't beat around the bush when mentioning them either). Ben, I think these criticisms are overstated in many cases. Ever try to get ppp running on Solaris? I have installed many distributions. The initial install is only a portion of the problem. The rest comes in getting the system configured the way that you need it. That is where Debian excels. Yes, I have gotten Solaris's PPP configured and, yes it did suck royally. But that's not the point, Debian does have short comings, and poeple are aware of them. No matter how much they overstated it, we need to address these issues. Oh, BTW, has anyone ever tried porting the SuSE sax X configuration program to Debian? I downloaded the source but have not gotten it to build yet ... still shanging stuff in Makefiles, etc. Some one is messing with RedHat's Xconfigurator. -- --- - - --- - - - --- Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux OpenLDAP Core - [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] UnixGroup Admin - Jordan Systems The Choice of the GNU Generation -- -- - - - --- --- -- - - --- - --
Re: I can't believe this
On Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 00:22 -0500, Brian Clark wrote: If you're trying Linux for the first time, Red Hat is the best choice. If I had to choose for the first time again, there is no doubt in my mind that I would go with Debian. Period. As horrible as it sounds I think I would have to agree that RedHat is probably better for the first time linux user. The reason? Well, in Hamm the installation process was an utter mess. The lilo setup was _bad_, and the options were far from obvious. X windows installation didn't work first time round, so I had to reinstall completely to a base system. It was in fact as bad as the very OS we are trying to get users away from. That said once it's up and running Debian is far better than RH. The fact that there are strict guidelines where packages should place stuff makes life so much easier it's just not funny. The documentation is way better, and the community spirit is very strong. Hopefully the dreadful installation process has been sorted out for Slink, and that recommendation can be changed to Debian. Cheers Dave -- Dave Swegen | Debian 2.0 on Linux i386 2.2.1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | PGP key available on request [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Linux: The Choice of a GNU Generation --
Re: I can't believe this
In a message dated 3/7/99 10:45:21 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Debian GNU/Linux 2.0 ($38.95 direct) ... ...Windows users should steer clear of Debian. I completely agree. Your forget, the targe of Windows is those people that DON'T know an IRQ from an I/O address. Windows takes all the work (or is supposed to) out of configuring and running your system. I'd say 99% of the people running Windows would be forever lost in Debian/Linux. I've been working on PCs since 1980/81 and it took me several months to be able to run Linux/Debian with any effectivness - and I *DO* know and IRQ from and I/O address. ...The company says it will include a new application installer in Debian GNU/Linux 2.1. Uhm, which company would this be? ...Debian is distributed by Linux Press... I do have a problem with this - it shows lack of research on ZDNet's part - which isn't entirely unsusual. Yeah, and a whole bunch of other people. Basicly the article's slant is be afraid of Debian, be very afraid. Again, this article was written for the person who is new to Linux, and I agree - for the newbie - be afraid. It can be done, but it takes HOURS of work and HOURS of reading. Most new users of an operating system aren't going to want to mess with it. I have to admit, there were several times even *I* was ready to delete everything Linux on my PC - but my continual displeasure with everything MicroSoft kept me going. Having said that, there really isn't anything productive I can do with my Linux box - yet. I do have WP on it, but hardly use it. I can browse the net - which is nice, but I can do that in Win95 too. I still use my Win box for Quicken and AOL - two apps I use constantly - and neither of which will run on Linux. -Jay
Re: I can't believe this
I read similar articles like this too. They are not really biased simply because they promote Redhat's Linux. The Debian system is a collection of high level puzzle pieces that an under-experienced user would have great difficulty using. On the other hand, you have Redhat and Caldera with their user-friendly installs (more or less). The both have config progs for setting up dula-boot boot, X-windows, etc. Much like Windows 95/98. This is why ZDNet does not promote Debian. They don't see any value for someone other than a developer (or developer-like) individual. It's just too difficult for the average person to set up. If Debian wants to reach the same or similar populace, then it's mandatory that simpler installs and configurators be developed. But then, you have volunteers develping Debian. Doing it in their spare time. It will take longer. Others have salaried employees. It makes a difference. It did with me. I'm now taking a course in Linux. It's the only way I can learn it. Dos, Windows, Assembler, AppleDos, etc are all self -intuitive. Linux is not. Any other input? Ed -Original Message- From: George Bonser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 04:45 Subject: I can't believe this http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/opensource/390823.html zdnet did a review of Debian. Included are such comments as: Debian GNU/Linux 2.0 ($38.95 direct) ... ...Windows users should steer clear of Debian. ...The company says it will include a new application installer in Debian GNU/Linux 2.1. Uhm, which company would this be? ...Debian is distributed by Linux Press... Yeah, and a whole bunch of other people. Basicly the article's slant is be afraid of Debian, be very afraid. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I can't believe this
-- Regards, | REDMOND, WA (API) --- MICROSOFT (MSFT) announced today . | the the official release date for the new operating Randy | system Windows 2000 will be delayed until the second | quarter of 1901 due to year 2000 problems. This is really good! I will put this in my scrap book. Ed
Re: I can't believe this
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, eferen1 wrote: with me. I'm now taking a course in Linux. It's the only way I can learn it. Dos, Windows, Assembler, AppleDos, etc are all self -intuitive. Linux is not. I disagree with this. Linux is no less self-intuitive than DOS or assembler (or any lang). You learn how things are put together and then things will fall into place. DOS isn't more intuitive (how much easier is it to see 'dir' as a abbreviation for 'directory list than ls for the same thing?). See you on the flip side - Steve Walsh (EfNet:#Babylon5:KnaraKat) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: I can't believe this
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Mark Wagnon wrote: I can't really find any criticisms that were mentioned that reading through the docs, or asking on this list wouldn't solve. First off, I agree with you. However, people don't want to have to read through the docs, or rather, hunt through the docs. People want to have everything you need to know (ideally that is very little) on the screen as you need it. We're not there yet... RedHat is closer. Windows is there, but there are certain tradeoffs :) -Michael Michael Stenner Office Phone: 919-660-2513 Duke University, Dept. of Physics [EMAIL PROTECTED] Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305
Re: I can't believe this
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:52:46 -0500, Ben Collins wrote: I think these criticisms are overstated in many cases. Ever try to get ppp running on Solaris? I have installed many distributions. The initial install is only a portion of the problem. The rest comes in getting the system configured the way that you need it. That is where Debian excels. Yes, I have gotten Solaris's PPP configured and, yes it did suck royally. But that's not the point, Debian does have short comings, and poeple are aware of them. No matter how much they overstated it, we need to address these issues. I personally don't think that the PPP setup needs work. I found it quite simple. So simple that the first time I set up Debian I missed it and feel like a complete putz. Windows PPP setup is harder because it is in several different and non-obvious places. Sure, Debian may have problems, but this isn't one of them. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBNuQ9gnpf7K2LbpnFEQIL0QCfe3wchfP4+wTeVSx6FEo4nk7YUGwAn0Cj N1LV3Mtqo1PHoAAZuDpQ5zTf =orQE -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: I can't believe this
Well I have to say that setting up ppp in debian was the easyist, of all the Linux distros and any other OS I have installed. *--* Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *--* Voice: 425.739.4247 *--* Fax: 425.827.9577 *--* HTTP://www.otak-k.com/~lawrence/ -- - - - - - - O t a k i n c . - - - - - On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Steve Lamb wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:52:46 -0500, Ben Collins wrote: I think these criticisms are overstated in many cases. Ever try to get ppp running on Solaris? I have installed many distributions. The initial install is only a portion of the problem. The rest comes in getting the system configured the way that you need it. That is where Debian excels. Yes, I have gotten Solaris's PPP configured and, yes it did suck royally. But that's not the point, Debian does have short comings, and poeple are aware of them. No matter how much they overstated it, we need to address these issues. I personally don't think that the PPP setup needs work. I found it quite simple. So simple that the first time I set up Debian I missed it and feel like a complete putz. Windows PPP setup is harder because it is in several different and non-obvious places. Sure, Debian may have problems, but this isn't one of them. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBNuQ9gnpf7K2LbpnFEQIL0QCfe3wchfP4+wTeVSx6FEo4nk7YUGwAn0Cj N1LV3Mtqo1PHoAAZuDpQ5zTf =orQE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I can't believe this
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:15:02 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, this article was written for the person who is new to Linux, and I agree - for the newbie - be afraid. It can be done, but it takes HOURS of work and HOURS of reading. Most new users of an operating system aren't going to want to mess with it. But this falls into the thinking that Windows doesn't need that. You're wrong, it does. Find some hermit in the wilds of Zimbabwae (or whatever), plop him down in front of a box and have him *INSTALL* Windows or Linux. Guess what, both will take HOURS of work and HOURS of reading to get anything done. Having said that, there really isn't anything productive I can do with my Linux box - yet. I do have WP on it, but hardly use it. I can browse the net - which is nice, but I can do that in Win95 too. I still use my Win box for Quicken and AOL - two apps I use constantly - and neither of which will run on Linux. It all depends on what you define as productive with your box. Most people look at the mainstream apps. Ooo, can I word process. Ooo, can I do this. Answer on most cases, yes. Maybe not with the specific applications that they're used to. I use Win95 for Quicken and PMMail and a few other applications, but I will say, without a doubt, that I get more work done with my Linux box than any other machine on my network. It is my router, my email server, my email list server, my telnet box, my web server, my ftp server, it has samba so it is the local file server. Without that one box a *LOT* of what I do would not be possible. To me, that is productive. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBNuQ/MXpf7K2LbpnFEQLqUgCgx7tr1YNgmh/9nxB8SIUhDMK87owAoMEg mu7m3js2Kh34GrV6Du1yk/7F =enl6 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: I can't believe this
On 03/08/99 at 10:21:55, eferen1 wrote concerning Re: I can't believe this: it. Dos, Windows, Assembler, AppleDos, etc are all self -intuitive. Linux is not. Absolutely not. Dos, Windows, etc. etc. are not self-intuitive. They each assume certain proficiencies, and someone who lacks them will have just as difficult a time as someone who lacks the necessary proficiencies in Linux. Many people may *perceive* that a given OS is easier in some respect, but every OS is difficult to use for someone who does not know how. It just so happens that M$ has managed to define how an OS should behave in the minds of many people. Therefore, many of those people assume that anything that behaves in those ways is easy, and anything that requires different learning is hard. Hence ZDNet's subscribers might identify a Redhat/KDE system with ease and a Debian system with difficulty. There are a greater number of proficienies required for comfortable use of a Linux system than there are for comfortable use of another system. In that way, other systems may be less demanding of the user. But I haven't even used Windows 95/98 now for almost a year (yay!) and at this point, I couldn't sit down and use a Windows box with the same level of comfort and proficiency as in Linux. Does that make Windows hard? It depends on your point of view. I'll always remember this historical principle: people are almost always willing to give up their own freedom if it will buy security. M$ has managed to make Windows appear to be secure (in the sense of personal comfort) for many people, while the many unknowns of UNIX makes UNIX appear relatively insecure. Perhaps UNIX, and Linux in particular offer much greater freedom, but most people are unwilling to buy that freedom with their own personal security. Maybe this tradeoff is all in our heads, but that's where the battle takes place. That's also why FUD tactics work so well. Anyway, I'll cut it off there. Any other input? See above :=) Jesse Ed -Original Message- From: George Bonser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 04:45 Subject: I can't believe this http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/opensource/390823.html zdnet did a review of Debian. Included are such comments as: Debian GNU/Linux 2.0 ($38.95 direct) ... ...Windows users should steer clear of Debian. ...The company says it will include a new application installer in Debian GNU/Linux 2.1. Uhm, which company would this be? ...Debian is distributed by Linux Press... Yeah, and a whole bunch of other people. Basicly the article's slant is be afraid of Debian, be very afraid. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Pastor Jesse Jacobsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP public key at http://www.jvlnet.com/~jjacobsen/pgpkey.asc or through the keyserver at keys.pgp.net. pgpg0VgZXJeNw.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
On 07/06/98 at 09:47 PM, Mark Panzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Mike Merten wrote: On Mon, Jul 06, 1998 at 09:51:52PM +0200, Shiraz Sayani wrote: I seem to have been receiving some spam which started after I asked a question on this list (note the new mung). As a matter of fact, I too have received a few... one from some jerk on AOL advertising 'beanie-baby grab-bags' I also had the exact same spam mail (beanie bags and all) there should be a debian policy against using e-mail archives for spam-mail purposes. It really does get annoying recieving such mail. Make it three, except the beanie bags were from a MSN jerk. Was the Y2K firm sent to this list or was it spammed direct? George A computer virus can be said to either 1) trash your hard drive, 2) lock up your computer, or 3) slow down your computer over time. Sounds like windows to me. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Shiraz Sayani wrote: Thomas Apel wrote: [...] Just for the record: I also got this beanie-baby-thing twice the last month. But not from AOL. The first was from msn.com and the second from fuse.net. But as Somnolent already said I'm not 100% sure if this is somehow related to this list. Yep. It's probably an occupational hazard of using the net these days. I only mentioned it here as I couldn't think of how else the B!*%!$ds got my mail alias; I haven't posted anything else with this alias. I'm sure my address was from one of my postings to this list, as I have an account that's only for this list. Before that, I had the list-mail going right into my own inbox, but after some days off I had to dig all through my inbox of several hundreds of emails to see if there was something not coming from the list... :-) But sometimes I ask a question from my 'normal' account, and guess what: I received the beanie stuff on both accounts... So if it's up to me I'd say my addreses were taken from the list (or this list on usenet) So far, I've had 4 (from/subjects later if you're not interested) Hmm.. strange, I had only the beanie one from msn.com (with strange, very strange headers... received from A by B, received from C by B, etc) -- Maarten Bezemer -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re[2]: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Somnolent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't received that spam, but my guess is it may not be targeted at you (do you think an AOL user can manage it?) nb Perhaps it's worth noting here that it's not your typical 'AOL user' that one has to worry about, but rather fairly skilled pirates who take advantage of AOL's great-dumb-lumbering-dinosaur nature to hijack accounts, logins, passwords, abandoned dialups or whatever else works for them. -n--e--u--t--r--i--n--of--e--v--e--r--! Bob Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.brainiac.com/bernie at Esmond, R.I. ftp://rupturedduck.dyn.ml.org (sometimes) -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Johann Spies wrote: I have also received the beanie-bag spam. I received the followin message last week and just want to know whether some of you did also receive it: I received a message with similar text which I forwarded to [EMAIL PROTECTED] They said they were dealing with it. They dealt with it: Thank you for reporting the e-mail you received from [EMAIL PROTECTED] The matter has been referred to the FBI for further investigation. This was a mass mailing and it was not sent to you PERSONALLY. Thousands of people got it, and the intention was to harass the individual at the phone number on the e-mail. Thanks for writing, Aimee Palmer Postmaster America Online, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] My thumb up to AOL to keep up with good work (on this matter). --j -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
On Mon, Jul 06, 1998 at 09:51:52PM +0200, Shiraz Sayani wrote: I seem to have been receiving some spam which started after I asked a question on this list (note the new mung). Has anyone else had the same? Am I being paranoid, or is it possible some spammer is mining the archives of these lists? As a matter of fact, I too have received a few... one from some jerk on AOL advertising 'beanie-baby grab-bags' and one from... heck, can't remember which major news net, ZDNET maybe? (didn't save it) :(... exclaiming all the 'neato' features of Windoze 98 ;/ Mike -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Mike Merten wrote: On Mon, Jul 06, 1998 at 09:51:52PM +0200, Shiraz Sayani wrote: I seem to have been receiving some spam which started after I asked a question on this list (note the new mung). Has anyone else had the same? Am I being paranoid, or is it possible some spammer is mining the archives of these lists? As a matter of fact, I too have received a few... one from some jerk on AOL advertising 'beanie-baby grab-bags' and one from... heck, can't remember which major news net, ZDNET maybe? (didn't save it) :(... exclaiming all the 'neato' features of Windoze 98 ;/ Mike I also had the exact same spam mail (beanie bags and all) there should be a debian policy against using e-mail archives for spam-mail purposes. It really does get annoying recieving such mail. Mark Panzer -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Mark Panzer wrote: As a matter of fact, I too have received a few... one from some jerk on AOL advertising 'beanie-baby grab-bags' and one from... heck, can't remember which major news net, ZDNET maybe? (didn't save it) :(... exclaiming all the 'neato' features of Windoze 98 ;/ I also had the exact same spam mail (beanie bags and all) there should be a debian policy against using e-mail archives for spam-mail purposes. It really does get annoying recieving such mail. For the record, I received that beanie bag spam twice, both before I join this list. So this list shouldn't be regarded as an exclusive source, if it is a source at all. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Mark Panzer wrote: Mike Merten wrote: [snip] I also had the exact same spam mail (beanie bags and all) there should be a debian policy against using e-mail archives for spam-mail purposes. It really does get annoying recieving such mail. Mark Panzer There is a debian policy. I cant remeber the details but it says something like if you advertise then you agree to pay $1999 per advertismentand if you contact us we might discount this rate for relavent advertising. So, should someone send them the bill? -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Mark Harrison wrote: [...] There is a debian policy. I cant remeber the details but it says something like if you advertise then you agree to pay $1999 per advertismentand if you contact us we might discount this rate for relavent advertising. So, should someone send them the bill? AFAIK this only affects spam send directly to the list. But as it seems someone sends it directly to (at least some of) the members of this list. Just for the record: I also got this beanie-baby-thing twice the last month. But not from AOL. The first was from msn.com and the second from fuse.net. But as Somnolent already said I'm not 100% sure if this is somehow related to this list. -- Thomas Apel [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key IDs: 90B40401 (RSA) and 5B980B91 (DH/DSS) -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Somnolent wrote: : Mark Panzer wrote: : : As a matter of fact, I too have received a few... one from some : jerk on AOL advertising 'beanie-baby grab-bags' and one from... : heck, can't remember which major news net, ZDNET maybe? (didn't save : it) :(... exclaiming all the 'neato' features of Windoze 98 ;/ : : I also had the exact same spam mail (beanie bags and all) there should : be a debian policy against using e-mail archives for spam-mail : purposes. It really does get annoying recieving such mail. : : For the record, I received that beanie bag spam twice, both before I : join this list. So this list shouldn't be regarded as an exclusive : source, if it is a source at all. Also, let's not forget that the lists are gatewayed to UseNet. It's far more likely that the addresses are being picked up there. If you're POSTING to UseNet ... well, expect spam :) -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Hallo, I have also received the beanie-bag spam. I received the followin message last week and just want to know whether some of you did also receive it: Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:13:20 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please Read Hello, my name is Andy. I know where you live and I know where your kids sleep. If you dont call me within 24 hours im going to kill your kids. my phone number is 864-833-3403. P.S. This is NOT a joke. Johann -- | Johann Spies Windsorlaan 19 | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]3201 Pietermaritzburg | | Tel/Faks Nr. +27 331-46-1310 Suid-Afrika (South Africa) | -- Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. Proverbs 3:5 -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Johann Spies wrote: I have also received the beanie-bag spam. I received the followin message last week and just want to know whether some of you did also receive it: I received a message with similar text which I forwarded to [EMAIL PROTECTED] They said they were dealing with it. -- Oliver Elphick[EMAIL PROTECTED] Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver PGP key from public servers; key ID 32B8FAA1 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. Proverbs 3:5 -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Johann Spies wrote: Hallo, I have also received the beanie-bag spam. I received the followin message last week and just want to know whether some of you did also receive it: Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:13:20 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please Read Hello, my name is Andy. I know where you live and I know where your kids sleep. If you dont call me within 24 hours im going to kill your kids. my phone number is 864-833-3403. P.S. This is NOT a joke. Johann Yep, I got that too. Some perverted person's idea of a joke. -- Ed -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Johann Spies wrote: Hallo, I have also received the beanie-bag spam. I received the followin message last week and just want to know whether some of you did also receive it: Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:13:20 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please Read Hello, my name is Andy. I know where you live and I know where your kids sleep. If you dont call me within 24 hours im going to kill your kids. my phone number is 864-833-3403. P.S. This is NOT a joke. I haven't received that spam, but my guess is it may not be targeted at you (do you think an AOL user can manage it?) I'm sure someone doesn't like whoever is at 864-833-3403 and wants them toget lots of calls. Nevertheless, I encourage you to pursue appropriate civil/criminal prosecution. Even if this is some kind of prank, if you have kids it is something to be taken seriously out of caution. If you don't have kids, you know its BS. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
Thomas Apel wrote: [...] Just for the record: I also got this beanie-baby-thing twice the last month. But not from AOL. The first was from msn.com and the second from fuse.net. But as Somnolent already said I'm not 100% sure if this is somehow related to this list. Yep. It's probably an occupational hazard of using the net these days. I only mentioned it here as I couldn't think of how else the B!*%!$ds got my mail alias; I haven't posted anything else with this alias. So far, I've had 4 (from/subjects later if you're not interested) The headers seemed a bit funny (e.g. invalid To, no date, strange route), so I tried complaining to abuse@ everywhere up the line for the first message, and posted to news.admin.net-abuse.sightings, but most of the email was bounced. Anyway, if anyone knows how I can scratch my autograph on the sender's hard disk by return e-mail, please let me know. |- Shiraz. -- Please remove '.noubce.see-sig' from my e-mail address to reply. Sorry for the inconvenience, but I really, really, really hate UBE, UCE, and anyone who sends it to me. If you don't know about UBE/UCE, see http://www.cauce.org --- Selected junkmail headers Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: 989.283923.263770 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Down Home CookBook From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 65620.. . . F Y I Subject: Are You In Need Of A Lifestyle Change...? -49149 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:29:12 +0200 From: usa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: 419.435976.63840961 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: T.V.-CABLE DESCRAMBLER NOW ONLY 10.00 Date: 3 Jul 1998 21:17:57 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Beanies Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
On Tue, Jul 07, 1998 at 08:53:28AM +0200, Johann Spies wrote: Hallo, I have also received the beanie-bag spam. I received the followin message last week and just want to know whether some of you did also receive it: Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:13:20 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please Read Hello, my name is Andy. I know where you live and I know where your kids sleep. If you dont call me within 24 hours im going to kill your kids. my phone number is 864-833-3403. P.S. This is NOT a joke. Hmmm.. haven't gotten this one yet. Whether it is a joke or not, this kind of stuff is actionable, in the States. If I get one of these, I will definitely be forwarding copies of it to appropriate law enforcement agencies, local and fed. Mike -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
I seem to have been receiving some spam which started after I asked a question on this list (note the new mung). Has anyone else had the same? Am I being paranoid, or is it possible some spammer is mining the archives of these lists? -- Please remove '.noubce.see-sig' from my e-mail address to reply. Sorry for the inconvenience, but I really, really, really hate UBE, UCE, and anyone who sends it to me. If you don't know about UBE/UCE, see http://www.cauce.org -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Gosh, I can't believe this!!! (was: who's guilty...)
Eloy A. Paris wrote: well, I have spent my whole Saturday chasing the answer and I think I am pretty close now. I think I found the cause: it's that damned Boca Research BOCALAN card VL. Today I tried EVERYTHING: [...] I ran for about 1 and a half years kernel 1.2.13 on this machine and with this PCnet32 card. This is why I suspect of kernel 2.0.x. Uhhmmm... the whole thing is strange. Why a network card problem is causing problems at reboot time? Why everything works so well if I turn the computer and work forever without reboot the computer with Cntrl-Alt-Del, reboot command, or shutdown -r ??? [...] The options are: w warm boot. c cold boot. b reboot by jumping to the BIOS reboot function. h hard reboot by toggling reset and/or crashing the CPU. I tried the w and it worked in all cases WITH the troubled card (BOCALAN-vl). The c never worked. Of course, with the Etherworks 3, I don't need to pass any reboot=x paremeter to the kernel. I'll offer this guess: the troublesome card does DMA, and is not being shut down before the kernel reboots. It writes to its previously programmed buffer address during the memory test, which of course causes the memory test to fail. Warm boot works because it does a very cursory memory test (if any), allowing only a short time window for the card to interfere; cold boot fails because of a more thorough test. Perhaps the change between kernels 1.2 and 2.0 was that the driver now takes advantage of the card's DMA capabilities? Or something isn't getting shut down properly when switching to runlevel 0? Or the driver doesn't finish or cancel outstanding operations when it's closed? -- Bill Roman ([EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]) running linux -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gosh, I can't believe this!!! (was: who's guilty...)
At 09:24 PM 12/1/96 -0800, you wrote: I'll offer this guess: the troublesome card does DMA, and is not being shut down before the kernel reboots. It writes to its previously programmed buffer address during the memory test, which of course causes the memory test to fail. Warm boot works because it does a very cursory memory test (if any), allowing only a short time window for the card to interfere; cold boot fails because of a more thorough test. Perhaps the change between kernels 1.2 and 2.0 was that the driver now takes advantage of the card's DMA capabilities? Or something isn't getting shut down properly when switching to runlevel 0? Or the driver doesn't finish or cancel outstanding operations when it's closed? Uhhmmm... your explanation sounds very good to me but dmesg reports that DMA is not needed when it detects the card. Also, the DOS utility used to configure the IRQ and I/O address of the card does not provide the capability to configure a DMA channel. ??? Regards, E.- -- Eloy A. Paris Information Technology Rockwell Automation de Venezuela Telephone: +58-2-9432311 Fax: +58-2-9430323 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gosh, I can't believe this!!! (was: who's guilty...)
I'll copy your report to Donald Becker, the driver author. Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
