Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Friday 09 February 2024 04:41:37 pm hw wrote: > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 11:34 -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: > > On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote: > > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > > > I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and > > has 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and > > so far I'm pretty happy with it... > > They seem to be extremely rare here. Where's "here"? I ordered mine from Home Depot, online. The wait until it arrived didn't seem excessive. > Are they any good, and how's the battery availability? It seems okay, and I haven't checked on the battery availability, no need at this point and if I did it'd probably change by the time I needed them anyhow. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
hw wrote: > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 06:44 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote: > > hw wrote: > > > On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +, Andy Smith wrote: > > > > [...] > > > That sucks. I didn't know that they don't stand behind their > > > products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer. > > > > > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > > > Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. > > I've never heard of Liebert, they are rather expensive. Cyberpower > seems to be cheap. > > Are they any good, and how is the battery availability? Can they even > be monitored? Liebert is very good, and -- as you said -- expensive. If you are outfitting a datacenter, they are usually on the list. Cyberpower is reasonably reliable; the batteries can be found online. They are USB connected devices readable by NUT. Some selected stats: battery.charge: 100 battery.charge.low: 10 battery.charge.warning: 20 battery.runtime: 3060 battery.runtime.low: 300 battery.type: PbAcid battery.voltage: 24.0 battery.voltage.nominal: 24 device.mfr: CPS device.model: CST135XLU device.type: ups driver.name: usbhid-ups driver.version: 2.8.0 driver.version.data: CyberPower HID 0.6 driver.version.internal: 0.47 driver.version.usb: libusb-1.0.26 (API: 0x1000109) input.voltage: 121.0 input.voltage.nominal: 120 output.voltage: 121.0 ups.beeper.status: enabled ups.load: 16 ups.mfr: CPS ups.productid: 0501 ups.realpower.nominal: 810 ups.serial: CDQHX2004035 ups.vendorid: 0764
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 11:34 -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: > On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote: > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and > has 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and > so far I'm pretty happy with it... They seem to be extremely rare here. Are they any good, and how's the battery availability?
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 06:44 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote: > hw wrote: > > On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +, Andy Smith wrote: > > > [...] > > That sucks. I didn't know that they don't stand behind their > > products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer. > > > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. I've never heard of Liebert, they are rather expensive. Cyberpower seems to be cheap. Are they any good, and how is the battery availability? Can they even be monitored?
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
>> What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and has > 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and so far I'm > pretty happy with it... Would they accept a warranty claim without having to run some proprietary software (diagnostic and/or OS)? Stefan
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote: > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and has 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and so far I'm pretty happy with it... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
hw wrote: > On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +, Andy Smith wrote: > > [...] > That sucks. I didn't know that they don't stand behind their > products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer. > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. -dsr-
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +, Andy Smith wrote: > [...] > Someone on the apcupsd mailing list thinks I have a faulty UPS or > battery and should get a replacement. > > APC refuses to proceed with a warranty claim because they don't > support apcupsd or nut, only their own proprietary Powerchute. They > won't proceed unless I can get Powerchute to show these events or a > failed self-test. That sucks. I didn't know that they don't stand behind their products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer. What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > [...] > Having said that, I don't need to do a warranty claim. As it was > only purchased a couple of weeks ago, consumer law allows me to > return it to the seller as faulty whether they accept that or not, > so I'll likely do that. It's just disappointing and a lot more > hassle. That seems like the best option. You can then buy from a better manufacturer which may avoid having trouble with APC later if there's a problem.
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On 2024-02-08, Charles Curley wrote: > On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 15:29:21 + > Andy Smith wrote: > >> I do not overly want to buy a Windows licence, run it >> in a VM and pass USB through to that VM just to try this. > > You could try wine. You might need the more recent crossover-office, > which is proprietary (but contributes greatly to wine). > I wonder if he could run the app on one of these virtual machines for evaluation purposes: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines/
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 15:29:21 + Andy Smith wrote: > I do not overly want to buy a Windows licence, run it > in a VM and pass USB through to that VM just to try this. You could try wine. You might need the more recent crossover-office, which is proprietary (but contributes greatly to wine). -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
Hello, On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 06:55:04PM +, Andy Smith wrote: > So, I must admit, I am quite tempted by BX1600MI which would cost me > about £183. The equivalent spec in the Pro range is more than twice > this price. [ TL;DR: While free software like apcupsd or nut support all APC models that you can buy today, APC (Schneider Electric) the company only supports its own Windows-only Powerchute and won't do a warranty claim unless you can run that. I therefore question the device's suitability to a Linux environment. ] Just as an update, I bought the APC Back-UPS BX1600MI and while superficially it seems fine, using "apcupsd" and/or "nut" it reports a constant stream of short-lived (less than 1 second) battery detach/re-attach and powerfail/restore events. The unit itself doesn't show any audible or visual alarm but as these events are sub-second in duration I don't know if they are just too quick for that. Someone on the apcupsd mailing list thinks I have a faulty UPS or battery and should get a replacement. APC refuses to proceed with a warranty claim because they don't support apcupsd or nut, only their own proprietary Powerchute. They won't proceed unless I can get Powerchute to show these events or a failed self-test. I can't do that because I don't have any Windows machines. I do not overly want to buy a Windows licence, run it in a VM and pass USB through to that VM just to try this. While in theory if I had heeded the warnings about Back-UPS being of lesser quality I might have bought a more expensive model that wasn't faulty (or at least did not have this problem, whatever it is), I am disappointed to learn that APC will not proceed with warranty claims unless you can run some Windows software, which puts me off the entire product range. Having said that, I don't need to do a warranty claim. As it was only purchased a couple of weeks ago, consumer law allows me to return it to the seller as faulty whether they accept that or not, so I'll likely do that. It's just disappointing and a lot more hassle. Thanks, Andy
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync--delete-after)
On 1/28/24 13:55, Andy Smith wrote: Hi, Thanks, this is very useful. On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 06:58:08PM +0100, hw wrote: However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture (Back UPS). They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even though you're not supposed to. It's a minimum basic device. It may be on ok option if you're on a budget. Their batteries last about 3 years. So, I must admit, I am quite tempted by BX1600MI which would cost me about £183. The equivalent spec in the Pro range is more than twice this price. Although the battery is not strictly user-replaceable, I watched some videos on the task and it seems pretty easily doable. Something for me to think on. Thanks, Andy I'm a fan of APC, but the consumer versions. and I don't worry about batteries until they won't last the 6 or 7 seconds it takes to spin up the 20kw kohler in the back yard. My now deceased wife was on an oxy concentrator the last 15 years of her life, and a power failure of 20 minutes might have finished her, so I bought a standby just a few months before the direcho that took power down for 3 days in June 2010. Very handy since. I have an APC-1600 that been begging for a battery for a couple years, Still works fine for those few seconds. Take care, stay well, Andy. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
Hi, Thanks, this is very useful. On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 06:58:08PM +0100, hw wrote: > However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture > (Back UPS). They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even > though you're not supposed to. It's a minimum basic device. It may > be on ok option if you're on a budget. Their batteries last about 3 > years. So, I must admit, I am quite tempted by BX1600MI which would cost me about £183. The equivalent spec in the Pro range is more than twice this price. Although the battery is not strictly user-replaceable, I watched some videos on the task and it seems pretty easily doable. Something for me to think on. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 15:17 +, Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:11:39PM +0100, hw wrote: > > I've never had issues with any UPS due to self tests. The batteries > > need to be replaced when they are worn out. How often that is > > required depends on the UPS and the conditions it is working in, > > usually every 3--5 years. > > Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that > has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of > about 300W. Generally I recommend APC because they work well (which is something to be expected and shouldn't need to be pointed out), they can easily be monitored with apcupsd and, very importantly, their batteries are usually easily available so you can replace them without difficulty. However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture (Back UPS). They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even though you're not supposed to. It's a minimum basic device. It may be on ok option if you're on a budget. Their batteries last about 3 years. I like the better models way better, like as on that[2] picture (Back UPS pro). I bought one a bit over 10 years ago (it even came with a 120k or so warranty for when a device protected by it would get damaged) and replaced the batteries twice so far. It's been working without any issues ever since, and it'll probably work as long as new batteries remain available. So that's about 3 years battery life as well. Then it depends on a lot of things, primarily on the availability of replacement batteries, then on how much you're willing to spend --- since you can buy used ones because the only thing that goes bad is the batteries, and you can find new old stock --- how much power you need, if you want one that features a network card and if you want a 19" rack version or a standalone version. Of course, their models change over time. The 900VA smart UPS pro delivers up to 540W, IIRC, and when it's overloaded it very annoyingly beeps, but it continues to provide power. I guess it shuts down when it's overloaded and the main power fails, but I've never had that happen yet. For only 300W you go for this one: https://www.apc.com/us/en/product/BR700G/apc-backups-pro-700va-420w-tower-120v-6x-nema-515r-outlets-avr-lcd-user-replaceable-battery/ Just keep in mind that you usually end up needing a UPS with higher capacity than you planned for. So it makes sense to check what the batterie(s) cost and what the price difference between models with lower and higher capacity is. Some models take two or more batteries while the version with lower capacity may take the same battery but only one, making it overall so much cheaper that the model with more capacity that requires two (or more) batteries may get too expensive. But there may be a model with slightly more capacity that still takes only one battery and you may be glad later that you spent a little more money for more capacity. Definitely stay away from UPSs from HP. If you can reach someone from HP at all, they will charge you before they would tell you what the price of the batteries might be :( Eaton probably makes good ones, too, but they're not common here, same as another manufacturer the name of which I can't remember. So I have no experience with them. Of course, you don't want to buy one from an unknown manufacturer with no reputation, especially when it's a chinese one. The batteries are pretty generic, but for all you know, the manufacturer may have not understood that pretty high currents can flow in an UPS and probably has skimped on the wiring and/or other components to keep it cheap, and it'll set your house on fire. APC has understood that even in their basic models (at least for the wiring; I can't tell for the other components since I don't have enough knowledge about those). After having said all the above, it's pretty simple because it comes down to that, unless anything APC is difficult to come by where you life, you can't go wrong with APC. [1]: https://cdn-reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl_ws/E910/APC_BX1400U_01.png [2]: https://oaziscomputer.hu/images/products/6934_apc-back-ups-pro-900-br900g-gr_1527776643.jpg
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, David Wright wrote: On Fri 26 Jan 2024 at 19:03:33 (+0100), Roger Price wrote: I currently have two Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600's. ... The four screws are deeply recessed and difficult to see. They have different heads: some are Torx 10, others are a star. 20/20 hindsight might suggest that you were only intended to remove the star, if by that you mean Philips/Pozidrive. What I called "star" is probably a Quadrex. Roger
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Fri 26 Jan 2024 at 19:03:33 (+0100), Roger Price wrote: > I currently have two Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600's. I change the batteries > every 4-5 years, but this is not as easy as it should be. It is not > evident that only one of the four back panel screws needs to be > removed. I took me a while to learn this. The four screws are deeply > recessed and difficult to see. They have different heads: some are > Torx 10, others are a star. Keep trying different screwdrivers until > you feel something turning. 20/20 hindsight might suggest that you were only intended to remove the star, if by that you mean Philips/Pozidrive. Cheers, David.
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, Andy Smith wrote: Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of about 300W. I currently have two Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600's. I change the batteries every 4-5 years, but this is not as easy as it should be. It is not evident that only one of the four back panel screws needs to be removed. I took me a while to learn this. The four screws are deeply recessed and difficult to see. They have different heads: some are Torx 10, others are a star. Keep trying different screwdrivers until you feel something turning. The battery compartment is too tight. I took me 4 attempts to get the batteries back in, with the cables still connected and positioned such that the rear panel can be put back. If you re-assemble and the UPS doesn't respond to pressing the ON/OFF button, then the battery leads have detached. Start all over again. Good luck! It could have been a lot easier. Roger
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:11:39PM +0100, hw wrote: >> I've never had issues with any UPS due to self tests. The batteries >> need to be replaced when they are worn out. How often that is >> required depends on the UPS and the conditions it is working in, >> usually every 3--5 years. > > Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that > has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of > about 300W. just my experience i have 2 apc 740's that date from the mid 90's when the internal battery gave out i added a 50 amp anderson connector i connect to a 35ah sla you can change battteries while it's running
Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)
Hi, On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:11:39PM +0100, hw wrote: > I've never had issues with any UPS due to self tests. The batteries > need to be replaced when they are worn out. How often that is > required depends on the UPS and the conditions it is working in, > usually every 3--5 years. Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of about 300W. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
