Whatever stupid decisions Microsoft take, Mono has to take them too,
because compatibility and equivalency with the MS Windows implementation
is so important. I've seen how Microsoft destroy their own creations
because they have so few pressures to maintain quality
On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 16:58 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
> If nobody responds with any serious objections by Monday, then let's
> just assume it's in.
That's wildly premature.
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notes, it would be nice to have some example use cases of what a
non-techy person would use it for.
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t;
> and I just didn't notice since I haven't really used it?)
Actually, it doesn't seem to stay on top of windows, so ignore that. I
guess I remember the behaviour from the Macintosh and kind of assumed
that something just wasn't working properly when it didn't in GNOME
ching seems like a marketing trick
that can really pay off. Of course it would be insanely difficult for
such a large project.
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> FWIW, we have more or less decided that no new libraries will be added
> to Gtk# that are not platform libraries, so we would only need an
> "exemption" on that rule for the existing binding set.
>
> Technically, gnomeprint is a show-stopper for us. We expose i
On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 07:16 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
> > Technically, gnomeprint is a show-stopper for us. We expose its API in
> > gnome-sharp.dll and therefore could not split it out and still maintain
> > our API stability guarantees.
I think, if there's absolu
version in your configure.{in,ac} file.
How?
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I don't think all the GNOME mentors know about this URL. It is quite hard
to find:
http://code.google.com/soc/mentor_home.html
It has a list of all the Summer Of Code applications. Many of them have no
comments or ranking points yet.
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ers support that as well.
It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of
confusion.
Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick?
> Who are we to argue them? ;)
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On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 16:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote:
[snip]
> The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with
> multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate
> with the desktop.
[snip]
Ignoring the rest of this thread, the start of which hasn't re
gs, I think the release-team should just go ahead
and fix it, and retarball where necessary, if you can't get a maintainer
to do it.
(Please, would the release team finally just go ahead and release a
libglade 2.6.0 tarball?)
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system ?!
> And why go to all the length of adding a plugin framework
> when there are no plugins after all ? This looks
> like first-grade overengineering to me.
>
> Matthias
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On Fri, 2006-07-07 at 15:53 +0100, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> On Fri, 2006-07-07 at 16:43 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
> > On Fri, 2006-07-07 at 09:43 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > > While testing FC6 test1 I noticed that the
> > > keyboard layout indicator applet has
lebassi.net
>
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>
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so the only
> question is whether GTK# is ready and willing to be in the bindings set
> (or am I missing something?)
So it's not that simple. These are two separate questions.
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>
>
>> Kathy's talk on passionate users, Apple's "Mac vs PC" adverts and their
>> success with making things cool have shown us that people don't care
>> about
>> what a computer can do, but what they can do with a computer (there may
>> be
>> more of a difference in my mind, I'm just lacking a g
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Murray Cumming wrote:
>> And while there were almost no objections to Python, there are clearly
>> many objections to Mono.
>
> What objections? So far, the only two objections I've heard are:
>
> 1. Performance -- I feel that I've add
e of bindings with the
acceptance of the use of those bindings in the desktop. My quote above
does not contain this confusion.
> The same applies here.
>
> I do not think there should be only "one way" of building applications
> for Gnome. We would not have the official langu
through anyway, and that was
allowed in order to avoid a split among the developers. But I hope that
our community is stronger now.
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frame?
You're not hostage to every guy who emails on d-d-l list, but you need
to make the release-team feel that there's consensus and that nothing
odd is going to happen. More or less. I'm not on the release team.
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[snip]
> So, I spent two hours reading every email sent in April, May and July
> about including Mono as an official part of the GNOME platform
That hasn't been proposed, as far as I know. It's been proposed for the
Platform Bindings.
[snip]
Murray Cumming
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Actually making these happen does require some some encouragement and some
commitment from these new projects.
In reality, however, all end users and vendors will want everything. But
the vendors will just prioritise on some of these parts.
Murray Cumming
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people will work on it to bug-triage it, bug fix it, translate
it, document it, UI review it, integrate it, and present it, which is what
that release schedule makes possible.
> If this is all
> we are really saying, then how can we discriminate on the language the
> program is written in.
> On 7/17/06, Murray Cumming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > Which makes me wonder why we are able to bless some applications and
>> > not others. The point of blessing the application is saying that this
>> > application meets the gnome standards fo
gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen
I think we can manage the extra sets mostly by adding new sets, with just
a few things being moved.
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> On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 08:23 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
>> [snip]
>> > So, I spent two hours reading every email sent in April, May and July
>> > about including Mono as an official part of the GNOME platform
>>
>> That hasn't been proposed,
g read
> the public opinion on this matter?
[snip]
Yes. The release team does this. It has done this every 6 months or so
since 2.0, I believe:
http://live.gnome.org/ReleasePlanning/Tasks
Murray Cumming
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day on an
> small device, and on Maemo Mono is just a fine solution.
Maemo are not using Python yet as far as I can tell. They would like to
support it as a development environment, and maybe then use it for their
own core stuff. But it needs some performance/memory/code-size work.
Murray Cu
ndows don't bother much
complaining about it because they know nobody's listening.
[snip]
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gnome-vfs-sharp, gnome-sharp, art-sharp,
> rsvg-sharp, vte-sharp, gconf-sharp, and gtkhtml-sharp. I would propose
> this package for inclusion in the Desktop release set.
>
> The division should satisfy all the rules. There is no rule ag
On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 11:25 -0500, Mike Kestner wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 18:21 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
>
> > > gtk-sharp-2.10.0 would keep glib-sharp, pango-sharp, atk-sharp,
> > > gdk-sharp, gtk-sharp, glade-sharp, and gtkdotnet. I would propose this
&
rce tarball that's
currently causing me problems because it's packaged as an all-in-one
binary package on debian/Ubuntu.
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On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 11:52 -0500, Mike Kestner wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 18:32 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
>
> > These optional builds don't help much, unless people are using gentoo
> > (or other source-based distros).
> >
> > If the binary packag
You agree with each other and yet you are arguing with each other. This is
depressing.
This discussion would be better in the form of "Wouldn't it be even better
if ..." and then "How can we make that happen?". The other stuff is just
demotivating.
Murray
that are
never saved in multiple file formats, it's not useful.
The HIG allows for this "useful"ness.
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there isn't that much code to be shared IMO.
Could someone explain how this is different to session management by
applications, if it is?
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d
out how you are presenting it. If people still don't agree with you then
that's life. We all have different opinions and we can't all fight about
them. Some people call that politics, but it's just getting things done.
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, great functionality, coherent behavior") (In fact that's my
> motto that I use when I develop GUI applications. It is a
> user-understandable reformulation of the Gideon Principle)
>
> Hmm... may be something else I can't recall now. Some of these points
> raised *after* I made my first post here.
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> I do not know of any stable Linux distro that currently offers a new
> enough version of udev that provides libvolume_id. At some point,
> hopefully in the near future, this will change. Until that time, a
> source tarball for libvolume_id will need to be made available in order
>
ich is
> based on the source of Gnome search tool and if accepted it should
> replace this.
Is there Nautilus integration? It wouldn't make much sense to add this
if it wasn't used for Nautilus.
> I know this is a bit late in the hour but I should be in the nick of
> time
(But I also think a build order plus a list of external dependencies
should be enough.)
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up a
> > bit by hand and despaghettified?
>
> You can get out SVG. Though, from memory, the problem of generating
> planar, directed graphs is NP-complete.
Isn't that what dot (graphviz) is all about? That's what jhbuild is
using.
> Obviously we should load the
> depend
verywhere.
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ombining control panels will still be
necessary.
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be found on
> http://live.gnome.org/GtkSourceView/RoadMap
Could people please link to their individual RoadMaps's from the main
http://live.gnome.org/RoadMap
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So what's the new equivalent of this line from a jhbuild .jhbuildrc
file?
# if you have a cvs account, uncomment this line
repos['gnome.org'] = ':ext:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome'
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ule, we can
> at most come up with a beta release and it may not be still be
> acceptable for the GNOME release.
>
> We have Anjuta 1.2.4a, the last stable release, that can be considered
> for the GNOME devel suite release. Granted it's not as feature filled as
> 2.x line
On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 14:24 +0200, Naba Kumar wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:06 +0100, Murray Cumming wrote:
>
> > Probably because the even number (2.0) suggests (by convention) that
> > it's a stable release. I think it would be best if Anjuta follow
mentioned for Desktop (and Admin, etc) modules. At
the moment they are just mentioned for Platform and Bindings modules:
http://live.gnome.org/ReleasePlanning/ModuleRequirements/Platform
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problem, and one that no Linux
IDE seems to have achieved yet, that I think it's a good idea to focus
on the problem in one application. The code and ideas can be used
elsewhere later.
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venting this.
Also, shouldn't the new kernel scheduler be giving priority to
interactive (keyboard, mouse, etc) processes.
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//cairographics.org/releases/ or
> http://cairographics.org/snapshots/, so I'm worried about breaking
> gtkmm and pygtk. cairo-java and the perl equivalent may have similar
> issues... Does anyone have any more details on this?
I don't thi
ery simple systems even this would be excessive.
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On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 13:40 +, Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote:
> On Sex, 2007-02-02 at 14:19 +0100, Murray Cumming wrote:
> >
> > > Just an fyi, but In embedded systems running Gtk+, you don't want to
> > > have to spend the time to initialize/start up Gst
his kind of suggestion is easier if it has a quick list of the actual
issues, ideally with bugzilla links. I don't doubt that they exist - it
just makes the conversation less vague.
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is not as bad as another. Then moving on.
Dealing with complex issues properly doesn't mean that we are incapable
of deciding. Quick decisions often lead to pain and misunderstanding. We
are somewhere in the middle.
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of how we decided it.
On the other hand, it's not possible to convince all the people all the
time. But I don't think that's the problem we have. It just takes effort
to do things right.
Some persona descriptions would help to focus our discussions. That
would be better than dismiss
team might want to specify this as an official
external dependency, but if it's not listed as one now then you can
probably just go ahead.
I hope that people try to #ifdef around the relevant code so that it
builds with both.
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> have to deal with.
I think they'd tell us about problems.
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to build with both, not just one.
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OpenSolaris guys :)
I don't understand. Is there a problem that we can help with?
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On Mon, 2007-04-16 at 16:37 +0100, Calum Benson wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-04-14 at 17:06 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
>
> > > What's that noise? Oh, it's the collective teeth-gnashing from
> > > OpenSolaris guys :)
> >
> > I don't understand. Is
s. I'd like to follow GNOME's faster cycle, so I can add API
without adding it in, e.g., 2.10.5, but I don't want the version numbers
to get out of sync. Likewise libglade(mm).
The rest of the *mm modules follow GNOME's cycle because the underlying
C librar
ware in a enterprise environment. So, *vinagre* is what we need!
>
> What do you think?
>
> [1] - http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/what-i-miss-in-gnome
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too.
Well done.
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On Wed, 2007-05-23 at 15:33 +0300, Lucas Rocha wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2007/5/23, Murray Cumming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > On Wed, 2007-05-23 at 14:13 +0300, Lucas Rocha wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > Note: the Roadmap is not the Release Notes. Therefore, we can go a
> &
API!
>
> Just because pygtk _can_ adapt doesn't mean that it _should_.
>
> In fact there are at least a couple of other changes in gtk+ 2.11.x that
> break the API; we should really be more careful about these things...
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dule is just a side
> effect
> of the technical decision to put the new bindings in a separate
> module.
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ns, with API additions.
c) releasing an unstable 2.5.2 tarball version, after the previous
unstable 2.5.1 tarball version, with both API changes and API additions.
d) releasing an unstable 2.5.2 tarball version, after the previous
unstable 2.5.1 tarball version, with API changes.
e) releasing
On Sun, 2007-07-15 at 01:05 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
> Le samedi 14 juillet 2007, à 12:01 -0600, Elijah Newren a écrit :
> > On 7/13/07, Murray Cumming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I've stopped changing the --version-info in gtkmm at all since a couple
> &g
On Fri, 2007-08-31 at 19:55 +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 01:55:35AM +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 12:36:28AM +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
> > > Note that the userid is really important. Otherwise ensure that the
> > > E-mail address is the one your @s
Could you please turn this off now? I can't commit to either libsigc++
(I emailed you about that already) or gconfmm. For instance:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/svn/gnome220/gconfmm$ more MAINTAINERS
Murray Cumming
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Userid: murrayc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/svn/gnome220/gconfmm
On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 12:02 -0300, Johan Dahlin wrote:
> Murray Cumming wrote:
> > Could you please turn this off now? I can't commit to either libsigc++
> > (I emailed you about that already) or gconfmm. For instance:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/svn/gnome220/gcon
On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 23:41 +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2007 at 05:09:59PM +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
> > Yes, gnomemm has no top-level trunk/ directory, and I don't want to add
> > one because that would cause confusion.
>
> Ok.. seems you h
On Thu, 2007-09-13 at 23:39 +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2007 at 04:26:19PM -0500, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote:
> > On 9/11/07, Tim Miao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > This is Tim from Sun desktop team. I'm looking for some GNOME2.20 API
> > > references pages/packages/tarballs.
On Fri, 2007-09-14 at 11:40 +0200, Frederic Peters wrote:
> Murray Cumming wrote:
>
> > library.gnome.org pages are uploaded from documentation in tarballs,
> > with some minor transformations, I believe. So we should be able to just
> > point people to the tarball (
On Sun, 2007-09-16 at 18:44 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 9/15/07, Jaap Haitsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Talking to Daniel "Cheese" Siegel we asked ourselves:
> > Why do all GNOME projects have a ChangeLog file?
> > Isn't it redundant when you just save a commit message.
> >
>
On Wed, 2007-09-19 at 23:47 +0300, Naba Kumar wrote:
> Hi Vincent,
>
> On Wed, 2007-09-19 at 20:48 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
> > Can you complete all the steps outlined at
> > http://live.gnome.org/ReleasePlanning/ModuleProposing (especially
> > changing the wiki pages)
> >
> I have done what i
> > I gave a really quick look at the bug, and there doesn't seem to be any
> > decision there. Are there any specific plans?
>
> There are no decisions or specific plans that I know of yet.
>
> - Andreas
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On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 19:41 -0400, Hubert Figuiere wrote:
> I can't speak for libxml++ maintainer, but given that libxml++ depends
> on Glib::ustring, it should stay at most in the bindings.\
That's a strange logic. External dependencies should be allowed to use,
for instance, glib.
If libxml is
On Wed, 2007-09-26 at 04:41 -0400, Daniel Veillard wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 10:24:57AM +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 19:41 -0400, Hubert Figuiere wrote:
> > > I can't speak for libxml++ maintainer, but given that libxml++ depen
On Wed, 2007-09-26 at 20:19 -0500, Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
> Another thing I'd like to see in the next version of the panel is the
> ability to lock it down. In other words, there should be a way to keep
> the panel from moving unless the user makes an explicit action to do so.
> The best place f
On Wed, 2007-09-26 at 02:07 -0700, Christian Hammond wrote:
[snip]
> notification-daemon and libnotify are on every distro shipping GNOME,
> to my knowledge. Isn't it time to finally mark this as a blessed
> dependency? More and more apps are using this and it's become a de
> facto standard not onl
On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 19:23 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> On 10/3/07, Kjartan Maraas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > All this should just come from libc. I don't think we should do anything
> > special here at all. I think all the needed data is available in the
> > locale data.
>
> That i
On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 17:27 +0200, Francesco Fumanti wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> After informally proposing onboard and mousetweaks for integration into GNOME
> on the gnome accessibility mailing list, here is a somewhat more formal
> request for the integration of MouseTweaks into GNOME:
>
>
>
On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 14:32 +0400, Nickolay V. Shmyrev wrote:
[snip]
> Be simple, what three tabs are you talking about, it should just work
> with a single button - "Enable mouse tweaks". I shouldn't tune my mouse
> to be able to click. Let's add usability-list to CC if that's not too
> much, I ho
On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 18:08 +0200, Jens Granseuer wrote:
> The accessibility keyboard capplet is going to go away. Discussion isstill
> ongoing (on gnomecc-list) about where it will go, but it seems
> likely there will be a unified "keyboard" or "keyboard and mouse" thingy
> that those settings
On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 12:22 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> I think that using GStreamer for playback would be a must for swfdec to
> be accepted as a blessed dependency (and thus swfdec-gnome added to the
> desktop). We've been through not allowing other playback engines in the
> past, so I don't
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 17:45 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here's a quick reminder: if you want to propose a new module for
> inclusion in GNOME 2.22, the deadline is tonight, Monday 29th October at
> 23:59 UTC. That's in 7 hours.
>
> All the details about proposing new modules for 2.22 are
On Sat, 2007-11-10 at 00:43 +0100, Matteo Settenvini wrote:
[snip]
> we need some proper documentation
> explaining how the GNOME stack is built,
jhbuild should take care of building. There is a lot of information
about how to use jhbuild, including solving specific problems on
specific distros.
Is there any reason that gnutls is stuck on version 1.4 here:
http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyone/ExternalDependencies
If so, I guess that should be mentioned in a comments column.
The latest version is 2.1.6 (though I don't know what's stable and
what's unstable):
http://www.gnu.org/software/
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 12:12 -0500, Adam Schreiber wrote:
> > Unfortunately, one of the main UI elements that indicate a secure
> > connection is the https:// URL in the URL bar. Are you proposing to
> > disguise that as well?
>
> Maybe just not shade it yellow. It will still be running over ssl
>
On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 04:52 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
> Homepage: http://www.beatniksoftware.com/gimmie/
> svn/git/bzr/...: http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/gimmie/
> Proposal on d-d-l:
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2007-September/msg00441.html
>
> Short description:
> ===
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 13:17 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
> I mean proper RDBMS. Once you get that in place you can generate
> DOAP/RDF/XML/whatever on the fly with little to no effort.
That's a nice idea. But it's easier for our developers to enter
information into a file in svn than into a RDBMS
On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 19:20 +0100, Rodrigo Moya wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 17:51 +0100, Luca Ferretti wrote:
> > ...
>
> also, what about iso-codes? jhbuild seems to be using 0.53, but latest
> is 1.8. Is there any reason to use such an old version
The idea of depending on old versions of ex
On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 18:45 -0700, Elijah Newren wrote:
> On Jan 31, 2008 3:21 PM, Mike Kestner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-01-30 at 21:49 -0700, Elijah Newren wrote:
> > > =
> > > GNOME 2.21.90 Development Release
> > > =
On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 08:42 -0500, Luis Villa wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2008 8:36 AM, Murray Cumming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Despite all the hard work, it doesn't look like the new Nautilus will be
> > ready for GNOME 2.22 without regressions.
> >
> > Why ar
Despite all the hard work, it doesn't look like the new Nautilus will be
ready for GNOME 2.22 without regressions.
Why aren't we talking about punting it until GNOME 2.23/24? We've never
allowed this kind of thing before - punting would be entirely normal.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.murrayc.com
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