Re: Volunteers needed for reg desk at ApacheCon

[Rich Bowen]

If you're willing, please sign up at 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XZcY8R4PccDHyzA9gQpDhvFpAP5JVr-6gcB4tlRWBeU/edit



On 9/14/18 2:33 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
If you'll be at ApacheCon, and are willing to take a couple of hours on 
the registration desk, please let me know.


Duties mostly include sitting there and smiling, checking people in and 
issuing badges, and telling people where the Viger B room is and where 
the restrooms are.


--Rich




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Re: Keeping PMC communications public when possible -- is pmcs@ responsible?

[Rich Bowen]

You are definitely not wrong. Two observations I'd make:

1) We should avoid sending anything to the pmc lists that isn't actually
private, as you say. And the pmc members are all (probably? Should be?)
also on the dev list.

2) if one uses an alias that forwards to multiple other lists, always
explain in the message why they're getting it. Like "you are receiving this
because you're subscribed to an Apache dev mailing list". This seems to
reduce the angry responses considerably.

Since your earlier note I have consciously avoided using the pmc lists and
used dev lists instead.

I'm not personally a fan of remaining lists but I can't say I strongly
object to it either. Just one more thing to relearn.




On Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 07:07 Julian Foad  wrote:

> TL;DR: Is the "pmcs@" alias the root of the problem? Need "pmcs-private@"
> and "pmcs-public@"?
>
> Rich Bowen wrote:
> > I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never sent an email
> > message to all of the Apache dev lists.
> > [It] *always* results in at least one angry response, and usually a lot
> of them.
>
> You're right -- I haven't. If that happens, it sounds like the work on
> Community Development is not yet finished, sadly. Anger distresses me even
> when I know it's not really personal, so I would find that concerning. But
> that's a digression, not the end of the matter.
>
> And I have some more insights now.
>
> Another non-private email recently came to private@, and the originator
> referred to sending email "to the PMCs".
> I don't know but suspect that they emailed the "pmcs@" alias in order to
> email "the PMCs". That sounds like a recipe for confusion.
>
> I discovered that in 2005 a resolution [3] was passed to rename all the
> mailing lists formerly called "p...@project.apache.org" (which were
> already private) to "priv...@project.apache.org" and to use these only
> for strictly private matters. This resolution is incorporated in the PMC
> Required Policies [2] and referred to in [1].
>
> However, the "pmcs@" alias escaped the renaming and now points to all the
> "private@" lists. It should therefore only be used for strictly private
> matters, which is not suggested by its name. People aren't easily going to
> learn that. It seems to me it would be a good idea to rename that alias to
> something like "pmcs-private@" and remove "pmcs@".
>
> For matters which we wish to address to PMCs but need not be private, we
> should have some other alias: "pmcs-public@"? This should point to each
> project's most appropriate public mailing list. This would be "dev@" for
> Apache Subversion and probably for most projects, while any project could
> potentially use a public list that is separate from their dev list if they
> wished (although I vaguely recall recommendations to keep both kinds of
> discussions together for the sake of community over code).
>
> Although this is a fairly infrequent and individually small matter, it
> appears to be causing unintended contraventions of the ASF policies and I
> feel it contributes negatively to the Way by habituating people to
> discussing matters in private.
>
> Thoughts, anyone? Is this something we could improve, perhaps quite easily?
>
>
> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#confidential
> [2] https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#mailing-list-private
> [3]
> https://whimsy.apache.org/board/minutes/Rename_pmc_lists_to_private.html
>
> --
> - Julian
>
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Re: ASF OFBiz instance for stuff ordering, shipping and tracking

[Rich Bowen]

On 9/14/18 7:50 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

What are your thoughts on this?


The OFBiz community has, on a number of occasions over the years, 
offered to spin up services to support various aspects of the ASF. It 
always seems to break down on two points: Where will this be hosted? Who 
will do the work?


So, yes, enthusiastically +1 to the concept, but I have to admit that 
I'm skeptical as to it actually happening.


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Volunteer needed to update archive.apachecon.com

[Rich Bowen]

We need someone to dig in and update archive.apachecon.com - 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/apachecon/archive.apachecon.com - to 
reflect current reality.


Thanks.

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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/28/19 11:28 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:

Naomi, you are showing great tenacity and patience here. I fully support your goals, but 
I do worry that demanding the foundation "police" these things by forcing 
people to behave in a way you find acceptable is counter-productive.



FWIW, Pierre used the term "policing".

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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

t;a. With a working group to escalate to for mediation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Elevate a diverse group of leaders
>>>>>>a. have a D board to advance initiatives surrounding D
>>>>>>b. and a D contribution team to help underrepresented people
>>>>>> contribute to the Drupal codebase
>>>>>>c. address D in values: "We believe that the Drupal project
>>>> benefits
>>>>>> from a diverse contribution pool, and we strive to foster a welcoming
>>>> and
>>>>>> inclusive culture everywhere Drupal exists—at events, online, and in
>>>> our
>>>>>> workplaces”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Make your project accessible to a diverse user base (hits home as I
>>>>>> think a lot about how they user base becomes the contributor base)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. How private companies can promote open source diversity
>>>>>>a. for most engineers, open source work is a luxury, and one that
>>>> is
>>>>>> not afforded to underrepresented people
>>>>>>b. companies—particularly ones that profit from open source
>>>>>> technology—can solve this problem by giving employees time to
>>>> contribute to
>>>>>> the projects the company uses
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It sounds like the work Gris has been doing is like the work of the
>>>> Drupal
>>>>>> D board and also the Drupal D contribution team.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kenn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 3:40 PM Justin Mclean <
>>>> jus...@classsoftware.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slightly off topic but relevant. One think we could do is look at
>>>> other
>>>>>>> foundations and communities and see what they have done that has
>>>> worked
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> them. I come across this interesting artifice this morning [1].
>>>> Note it
>>>>>>> includes the steps that community took to build a diverse
>>>> community, I’d
>>>>>>> also note we’ve taken some of those steps (e.g. have a code of
>>>> conduct)
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> perhaps shows where we could do more. They have set up a Drupal
>>>>>> Diversity &
>>>>>>> Inclusion team [5] that spells out it values [2] and has  among
>>>> other
>>>>>>> things guide on moderation, [3] and participation [4], Now the ASF
>>>> is
>>>>>>> different to Drupal and some of those tings may not fit but it
>>>> would be
>>>>>>> useful I think to at least consider them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> https://angel.co/blog/drupals-angela-byron-on-building-a-diverse-community
>>>>>>> 2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.drupal.org/docs/8/modules/drupal-diversity-inclusion/statement-of-values
>>>>>>> 3.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.drupal.org/docs/8/modules/drupal-diversity-inclusion/drupal-diversity-inclusion-participation-moderation-1
>>>>>>> 4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.drupal.org/docs/8/modules/drupal-diversity-inclusion/participation-moderation-guidelines/participant-guidelines
>>>>>>> 5. https://www.drupal.org/project/diversity
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
> 
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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

Ah. Ok. That's fair. I retract my comment.

I was seeing going the full top-level committee thing as being a
bureaucratic stumbling block, and not in this light. I have no strong
preference one way or the other and merely wanted to remove obstacles.

Your reasoning is compelling and right. Go for it.

--Rich

On 4/2/19 11:38 AM, Griselda Cuevas wrote:
> I agree with Sam that if we do not formalize this as a committee it will
> die.
> 
> I understand and acknowledge the reasons why this being part of ComDev
> makes sense: simplicity and agility to get off the ground.
> 
> However, this rationale still treats the effort to embrace the need for a
> Diversity and Inclusion strategy as a proof of concept, expecting it will
> die. I have committed to make this happen and the commitment includes
> driving this through the bureocracy needed to make the group and efforts
> part of the ASF DNA.
> 
> If we do not do it now, it will just become what Naomi mentioned: yet
> another try.
> 
> I am happy to walk the walk and structure work and needs to make this
> happen.
> 
> I would suggest we still aim for the committee or at least define a clear
> goal to hit for it to graduate to that level. Right now the
> success.measurement is unclear and vague.
> 
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2019, 8:12 AM Bertrand Delacretaz 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 4:57 PM Sam Ruby  wrote:
>>> ...My feeling is that it will die here...
>>
>> IIUC what's been proposed so far is a new mailing list and issue tracker.
>>
>> Both can very well be owned by comdev and that shouldn't limit
>> progress in any way.
>>
>> It's just that the comdev PMC is responsible for oversight and
>> reporting on those new initiatives, and it keeps things simple for
>> now.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
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>>
> 

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Re: [jira] [Created] (COMDEV-313) HTTP/3 for Apache Tomcat: DTLS support for JSSE+OpenSSL

[Rich Bowen]

I presume you've opened this in the wrong queue?

On 3/12/19 6:30 AM, Mark Thomas (JIRA) wrote:

Mark Thomas created COMDEV-313:
--

  Summary: HTTP/3 for Apache Tomcat: DTLS support for JSSE+OpenSSL
  Key: COMDEV-313
  URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-313
  Project: Community Development
   Issue Type: Bug
   Components: GSoC/Mentoring ideas
 Reporter: Mark Thomas


HTTP/3 is the next iteration of the HTTP protocol. An HTTP/3 implementation 
requires a number of building blocks of which this is one.

Java does not currently have DTLS support.

Tomcat has two options for TLS. Pure JSSE and JSSE+OpenSSL where a JSSE wrapper 
is placed around OpenSSL and OpenSSL is used to perform the encryption.

Irrespective of whether Java provides DTLS support, Tomcat will want an 
JSSE+OpenSSL option for DTLS. This project is to provide that JSSE+OpenSSL 
based DTLS implementation.



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Re: [jira] [Commented] (COMDEV-313) HTTP/3 for Apache Tomcat: DTLS support for JSSE+OpenSSL

[Rich Bowen]

Sorry, I completely missed that this was a GSoC thing.

On 3/27/19 10:26 AM, Mark Thomas (JIRA) wrote:


 [ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-313?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16802854#comment-16802854
 ]

Mark Thomas commented on COMDEV-313:


[~rbo...@rcbowen.com] GSoC ideas for projects that don't use Jira are opened in 
COMDEV.

[~Abhism] It isn't quite as simple as I first thought. The QUIC over DTLS 
proposal wasn't accepted by the IETF working group. QUIC and TLS are tightly 
integrated. A good place to start would be reading these:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-quic-tls/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-quic-transport/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-quic-http/

Then considering Tomcat's HTTP/2 implementation:
https://github.com/apache/tomcat/tree/master/java/org/apache/coyote/http2

and low level network implementation:
https://github.com/apache/tomcat/tree/master/java/org/apache/tomcat/util/net

start to think about how QUIC and HTTP/3 would fit into Tomcat's overall 
architecture.

I would expect to see a successful applicant engaged on the Tomcat dev mailing 
list demonstrating coding ability and commitment to the project. There are many 
ways to do this but, to set expectations, the sort of contribution I have in 
mind is a proposal for how to implement RFC 7838 and some (not necessarily 
complete) patches to support that proposal.


HTTP/3 for Apache Tomcat: DTLS support for JSSE+OpenSSL
---

 Key: COMDEV-313
 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-313
 Project: Community Development
  Issue Type: New Feature
  Components: GSoC/Mentoring ideas
Reporter: Mark Thomas
Priority: Major
  Labels: gsoc2019

HTTP/3 is the next iteration of the HTTP protocol. An HTTP/3 implementation 
requires a number of building blocks of which this is one.
Java does not currently have DTLS support.
Tomcat has two options for TLS. Pure JSSE and JSSE+OpenSSL where a JSSE wrapper 
is placed around OpenSSL and OpenSSL is used to perform the encryption.
Irrespective of whether Java provides DTLS support, Tomcat will want an 
JSSE+OpenSSL option for DTLS. This project is to provide that JSSE+OpenSSL 
based DTLS implementation.




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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/26/19 11:06 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

It is great to see that we want our outbound comms regarding this improved.

But what is worse is that, while there are these great talks about
improving this here in comdev and foundation, the flaw remains at project
level where people do get disregarded for receiving privileges because they
don't fit the profile that individual PMC members have of the ideal
privileged contributor, and vocalise that in such a way that when it comes
to a vote it is a veto in all but the word.

Not only do the outbound communication need to improve, but more
importantly the oversight and policing needs to improve.


It's difficult to imagine a scenario, at Apache, where there would be 
*policing* of this concept. I'm not even sure what you mean. Are you 
suggesting that someone (ComDev? The Board?) would *force* a project to 
accept someone that they have determined is somehow contrary to the 
mission or vision of their project?



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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/28/19 10:44 AM, Naomi Slater wrote:

On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 at 15:41, Rich Bowen  wrote:



I find this to be nitpicking. We have a diversity problem, and should be
seeking ways to improve the situation.

We are *lightyears* away from a situation where it would be relevant
whether we have a diversity problem vis-a-vis the global population. I
suppose that might be interesting, academically, but has no practical
relevance in terms of what we need to be *doing*.



I don't agree

something that comes up repeatedly is the idea that "perhaps women are just
not that interested in computer science" or something like that. this what
Jim was alluding to in his email about "global" populations

there's a lot of interesting stuff that could be said about why so few
women do go into tech. but, and here's where I do agree with you, that's
completely irrelevant to us. and *the way we demonstrate that* is by
pointing out that our diversity issues are with respect to industry
averages, not global population



Well, ok, but ...

I fail to see how this would affect the actual work that needs to get 
done. I have long since stopped caring about *persuading* our skeptic 
members about the need to do this work. They're not going to help 
anyways, why bother? And we already have the full support of the 
President and the Board on this, so they can't interfere in any 
meaningful way.


*That* is why I think that this nitpicking is irrelevant. If other folks 
wish to discuss whether it's 2% or 3%, sure, go ahead. It feels like 
debating the brand of mop we should be using when we're 8 feet under water.


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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/28/19 10:24 AM, Mark Thomas wrote:

That's under-representation against the global population and not
against the pool of contributors.



I disagree. It is both. This isn't something where we can just say "It
isn't our fault. The problem lies upstream in the process". Yes, there
are issues that need to be tackled elsewhere but the survey showed
representation in committers wasn't on par with what we would expect
given the levels of representation in the feeder communities. Taking
women just as an example the % of committers who identified as women was
about half* of what would have been expected.


I find this to be nitpicking. We have a diversity problem, and should be 
seeking ways to improve the situation.


We are *lightyears* away from a situation where it would be relevant 
whether we have a diversity problem vis-a-vis the global population. I 
suppose that might be interesting, academically, but has no practical 
relevance in terms of what we need to be *doing*.


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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/28/19 8:16 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 12:53 PM Naomi Slater  wrote:

...I'll say what I've said before: it's long since time for us to critically
examine the way we use the concept of "meritocracy" at Apache...


I have just a small comment about this: I think we use "meritocracy"
to mean that someone who *adds value* to a project gets more rights
and responsibilities.

And "adding value" has nothing to do with who you are, it just means
you are making positive contributions to a project.

Framing things like that, and maybe finding a simple way to express
that concept, might help.


https://www.apache.org/theapacheway seems to make good steps in that 
direction, and is the message that we need to be getting behind, and 
linking to, when communicating what we mean.


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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/28/19 11:58 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:


I find it sad that there are (board) members who keep saying that the
situation must improve (because there are problems regarding Diversity and
Inclusion), but when it comes to where it needs to improve (in the projects
mostly) they also keep saying (here and other threads also in other fora in
the past) that there is nothing to be done from the Foundation downwards to
the projects because 'the projects are independent'.


I am not aware of any board members who have said that. Unless you're 
construing my comment in that light. Because that is most definitely not 
what I said.


The Foundation does do stuff "downwards to the projects." We have, in 
fact, established a PMC, named "Community Development" which has that as 
its charter.


Furthermore, EVERY SINGLE MONTH, there is at least one (and usually 
several) response to a project report, encouraging them to more actively 
pursue new committers, lower their bar to entry, actively mentor new 
contributors, and so on.




In my book there is where the view-points of those persons go of in wrong
directions. Yes, projects are expected to operate independently from
outside influence. But they can not operate independently from the
organisation they reside under. In a page (See [1]) of the ASF it is stated
that 'the board delegates the technical direction of all projects to each
PMC', but 'are expected to follow corporate policies'. This means that the
policies can be created at Foundation level, and can be policed (by the
Board, and/or through delegation by a specific office). If the highest body
of the Foundation established a strict(er) policy on 'merit awarding'
and/or 'Diversity & Inclusion' then it is obliged, with regards to these
policies, to:

1. ensure that each of the lower level organisational units (OUs like
projects/offices/departments, etc.) acknowledge and apply such policies


Yes, we do that. Daily on board@ and monthly in the board meeting.


2. regularly (and independently of the projects and offices) assess the
adherence to (or compliance with) the policies


Yes, we do that. Projects report quarterly to the board, and at that 
time we review their performance with respect to those policies.



3. actively implement corrective measures when an OU fails to adhere to
or comply with such policy.


Yes, we do that too.


Mark suggested in a posting earlier that there is something called the D
team that could be tasked with gathering advice from domain experts, and
advise the President/Board on how to improve this situation. But it seems
(I have done some searching on ASF pages regarding this D team) the team
has not been established formally and thus no insights on its mission and
production can be established. Maybe that still needs to happen? Or is it
flying very low under the radar, or ?


It's call ComDev. This entire thread is about how we're not doing an 
awesome job, and can stand to improve.



Whatever it may be (visages the D team), here are some suggestions that
may lead to an improved situation:

1. Communicate (e.g. via the ASF's web site) clearly where contributors,
who feel they were wronged, can submit complaints;


For the Incubator, this is documented here - 
https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PodlingBillOfRights


For the foundation as a whole, it is documented here: 
https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct



2. Treat complaints (and their submitters) seriously and discretely;


If you have evidence that this has not happened, I encourage you to 
report it, as per the above documentation.



3. Have a protocol published so that everybody can learn about what to
expect and when to expect it.


I'm not sure what you're asking for here. Can you elaborate on what kind 
of "protocol" you're referring to?


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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/30/19 10:25 AM, Naomi Slater wrote:

we don't need to get buy-in from everyone. thank God. because it would
never happen. all we need is a critical mass in order to be able to get
work done.


SO. MUCH. THIS.

I didn't read this thread at all this weekend, and this morning am 
trying to push down my irritation with the "prove to me that a problem 
exists" nature of a number of the posts here, and focus on the folks 
making actionable plans.


There is, indeed, honor in the email not sent. I have accrued much honor 
this morning. :D


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Fwd: Re: [CHICAGO] Roadshow schedule is up

[Rich Bowen]

This remains an unsolved problem - granting write access to our event 
websites to people who are not ComDev committers, without voting them 
in. This seems like something that needs to happen - it's in the way of 
getting work done - but the way that ACLs are applied makes us required 
to jump through the hoops.


Any suggestions of how to fix this quickly?


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [CHICAGO] Roadshow schedule is up
Date:   Thu, 4 Apr 2019 18:07:42 -0500
From:   Bob Paulin 
Reply-To:   plann...@apachecon.com
To: plann...@apachecon.com



Hi,

Can anyone grant me access (username is bob) on the apachecon repo where 
the roadshow is hosted?  I need to update someone's employer before they 
get in trouble.  Thanks!




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Re: New mailing list for discussion of ComDev code (projects, reporter etc)

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/2/19 7:33 AM, sebb wrote:
> I wonder if there should be a separate mailing list for discussion of
> the code for which ComDev is responsible.
> 
> For example, Projects, Reporter, HelpWanted
> 
> This would normally be the dev@ list, but that has long since been
> used for general ASF community discussion, so it's too late to change
> that.
> 
> Maybe code@ or tools@ or something else?


This seems to be solving a problem we don't actually have. When's the
last time we had a discussion of those projects?

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4 Apache Events in 2019: DC Roadshow soon; next up Chicago, Las Vegas, and Berlin!

[Rich Bowen]

Dear Apache Enthusiast,

(You’re receiving this because you are subscribed to one or more user
mailing lists for an Apache Software Foundation project.)

TL;DR:
 * Apache Roadshow DC is in 3 weeks. Register now at
https://apachecon.com/usroadshowdc19/
 * Registration for Apache Roadshow Chicago is open.
http://apachecon.com/chiroadshow19
 * The CFP for ApacheCon North America is now open.
https://apachecon.com/acna19
 * Save the date: ApacheCon Europe will be held in Berlin, October 22nd
through 24th.  https://apachecon.com/aceu19


Registration is open for two Apache Roadshows; these are smaller events
with a more focused program and regional community engagement:

Our Roadshow event in Washington DC takes place in under three weeks, on
March 25th. We’ll be hosting a day-long event at the Fairfax campus of
George Mason University. The roadshow is a full day of technical talks
(two tracks) and an open source job fair featuring AWS, Bloomberg, dito,
GridGain, Linode, and Security University. More details about the
program, the job fair, and to register, visit
https://apachecon.com/usroadshowdc19/

Apache Roadshow Chicago will be held May 13-14th at a number of venues
in Chicago’s Logan Square neighborhood. This event will feature sessions
in AdTech, FinTech and Insurance, startups, “Made in Chicago”, Project
Shark Tank (innovations from the Apache Incubator), community diversity,
and more. It’s a great way to learn about various Apache projects “at
work” while playing at a brewery, a beercade, and a neighborhood bar.
Sign up today at https://www.apachecon.com/chiroadshow19/

We’re delighted to announce that the Call for Presentations (CFP) is now
open for ApacheCon North America in Las Vegas, September 9-13th! As the
official conference series of the ASF, ApacheCon North America will
feature over a dozen Apache project summits, including Cassandra,
Cloudstack, Tomcat, Traffic Control, and more. We’re looking for talks
in a wide variety of categories -- anything related to ASF projects and
the Apache development process. The CFP closes at midnight on May 26th.
In addition, the ASF will be celebrating its 20th Anniversary during the
event. For more details and to submit a proposal for the CFP, visit
https://apachecon.com/acna19/ . Registration will be opening soon.

Be sure to mark your calendars for ApacheCon Europe, which will be held
in Berlin, October 22-24th at the KulturBrauerei, a landmark of Berlin's
industrial history. In addition to innovative content from our projects,
we are collaborating with the Open Source Design community
(https://opensourcedesign.net/) to offer a track on design this year.
The CFP and registration will open soon at https://apachecon.com/aceu19/ .

Sponsorship opportunities are available for all events, with details
listed on each event’s site at http://apachecon.com/.

We look forward to seeing you!

Rich, for the ApacheCon Planners
@apachecon


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Re: Who "manages" the RedBubble account?

[Rich Bowen]

Mark Thomas

On 3/20/19 3:15 AM, Sally Khudairi wrote:
> Hey ComDev-ers!
> 
> I'd like to get some swag featuring our new 20th Anniversary assets onto 
> RedBubble.
> 
> With whom should I coordinate?
> 
> Many thanks in advance,
> Sally
> 
> - - - 
> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> The Apache Software Foundation
> 
> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | s...@apache.org
> 
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Re: [APACHECON] CFP Open for Community Track at ApacheCon NA

[Rich Bowen]

If you have an idea for a talk, and either want help turning it into an
abstract, or want feedback on your abstract once you have put it
together, please let us know. Or, if you prefer for whatever reason,
please let me know offlist (and I expect that there's a half-dozen of us
here who would be willing) and I'll be glad to edit, suggest, proofread,
whatever.

ApacheCon is primarily about community, and so we really want to make
the community track a centerpiece of the event.

On 3/18/19 2:53 PM, Sharan Foga wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> If you haven’t seen them yet then the announcements for both ApacheCon NA and 
> ApacheCon Europe are out.
> 
> We will be running a Community track at both events. For ApacheCon NA – we 
> have the potential for up to 3 days of community related content and the CFP 
> is now open. If you have an idea for a presentation, talk, panel, mini 
> tutorial etc that could fit this track then please feel free to submit 
> something. 
> 
> http://www.apachecon.com/acna19/cfp.html
> 
> There are lots of topics that fit community – examples include the Apache 
> Way, Culture, incubator (process and experience :-),  roles (what it means to 
> be a ...committer?, contributor, member?, mentor? director? Officer? ), 
> Licencing, legal, branding, getting started etc. 
> 
> I think it could also be good to possibly include something about the various 
> community related tools that are available for our projects to use (e.g. 
> whimsy, ponymail,  kibble, plus any others you know of) or community 
> processes or fundamentals for getting stuff done.
> 
> So if you have an idea for a talk … then please get it submitted :-)
> 
> (For ApacheCon EU – we have a potential 2 day Community track and as soon as 
> the CFP is open I will let you know!)
> 
> Thanks
> Sharan
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

I read the article last week when it was doing the rounds, and I must
admit I find it confusing. It appears to state that because we haven't
yet achieved equity, we shouldn't bother striving for it. This seems
false and harmful.

I'm not aware of anybody (ok, fine, I am aware of one person) that
thinks that Apache has arrived at meritocratic ideals. Rather, we strive
towards them. If it's the *word* that's objectionable, sure, fine. But
abandoning the *ideal* doesn't seem like a desired outcome.

I acknowledge that I am the recipient of enormous luck and privilege. I
certainly don't believe that I have arrived where I am in the world
purely by hard work. And frankly, citing Stuart Varney as representative
of ... well, anything or anyone, is, itself, kind of comic. He's a
pompous blow-hard with a lengthy history of arrogant remarks about
unsavory poor people who are not as wonderful as himself. I understand
that these people exist, but citing them as representative seems weird.

I would, however, ask what it is, specifically, that you're suggesting.

On 3/20/19 5:49 AM, Naomi Slater wrote:
> this article crossed my news feed today:
> 
> https://www.fastcompany.com/40510522/meritocracy-doesnt-exist-and-believing-it-does-is-bad-for-you
> 
> here's a key takeaway:
> 
>> [...] in companies that explicitly held meritocracy as a core value,
> managers assigned greater rewards to male employees over female employees
> with identical performance evaluations. This preference disappeared where
> meritocracy was not explicitly adopted as a value.
> 
> many aspects of this piece mirror something I wrote for Model View Culture
> a few years ago:
> https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/the-open-source-identity-crisis
> 
> namely, that "the meritocracy" is a status quo supporting, hierarchy
> legitimizing myth used to justify people's existing social status and
> treatment
> 
> I'll say what I've said before: it's long since time for us to critically
> examine the way we use the concept of "meritocracy" at Apache (this is
> especially true in 2019 given what we know about the lack of diversity at
> the ASF)
> 
> when I was writing about this in 2014, I was already a few years behind the
> curve re discourse about culture and tech diversity. it's now 2019 and even
> FastCompany is writing about it
> 

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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/21/19 10:51 AM, Naomi Slater wrote:
> "I'm not aware of anybody (ok, fine, I am aware of one person) that thinks
> that Apache has arrived at meritocratic ideals. Rather, we strive towards
> them."
> 
> that's not how we communicate it at all, in my view. here's an ASF blog
> post from 2017 which, in my opinion, is representative of the tone we use
> when speaking about "meritocracy" at Apache:
> 
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-meritocracy
> 
>> What we are is a Meritocracy. To be able to have a say, you have to prove
> your worth in a system of merit. Meritocracy is a key part of The Apache
> Way.
> 
> this speaks in confident absolutes: "we *are* a meritocracy"

Ok. You're right, and I will very intentionally try to change my framing
of this issue whenever I speak of it.

> there is a presumption (here, and across the foundation, almost every time
> it has been brought up or mentioned, in my experience) that we're doing it
> (and by it, I mean "meritocracy") well. and a brief look at the homogeneity
> of our committer/member base should be enough to disabuse anyone of that
> notion (unless you believe--and I don't think anyone on this lists
> does--that monied white men just happen to be overwhelmingly more
> meritorious)

As alluded to, I am aware of people in our community who believe that we
have achieved this goal, and that any inference to the contrary is
crazy-making. I explicitly disagree with that stance. We have clearly
*not* achieved this goal, and I was laboring under the assumption that
this was known, to most of us.

https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/it-is-known-gif-13.gif

> this is precisely the outcome that the first article predicts
> 
> I can't think of anything that should scare the members of this
> organization more than the idea that by embracing "meritocracy" as a core
> value we ensure that we do worse than other organizations as far as
> inclusion/equity/bias is concerned

Right ... but I don't believe that's what's being said. Meritocracy is a
target, not an established reality. I agree with your assessment that we
need to take steps to talk about it in those terms more intentionally.

What various members of our community object to is simply discarding the
concept and not replacing it with something. What *I* object to is the
notion that if we just come up with another word for it, Everything Will
Be OK. To me, that's clearly nonsense.

I mean, we *want* to recognize people based on their contributions,
right? If we're not doing that, we need to both do better, and talk
about it differently. But talking about it with different words is only
a small part of changing it.

> I'm not suggesting that we make radical changes to the way we recognize
> people's commitment to projects or the foundation as a whole. I am
> suggesting that we change the way we talk about it

++1

> it can be as simple as saying that "we strive to recognize people's
> commitment" and explain that this is how people are elected to various
> positions within projects and the foundation as a whole

I'm very much in favor of this framing.

> (one of the side benefits of talking about "commitment" instead of
> "contributions" is that gets at the heart of what many projects do look
> for: sustained interest and commitment to a project, not just size of
> contributions. it also lets you pivot "committer" into meaning someone who
> is committed, not just someone who commits code. which as I'm sure many of
> you are already aware is one of the big areas in which we tend to exhibit
> bias)

Well, yes and no. It's great to be committed, but unless that leads to
contributions (not just code) then it does not advance the project. In
the end, we are running software projects, and warm feelings don't
advance these projects. *Actions* do.

> instead of focusing on "the ASF is a meritocracy", we could focus on how,
> at the ASF, we recognize that our organization is more homogenous than we
> would like and that we are committed to building a more inclusive, diverse,
> and equitable organization

I *think* that on this particular mailing list, you're preaching to the
choir. And that choir is notably much more diverse than the ASF at
large. The challenge is spreading this story to the larger congregation.
Particularly when certain vocal members of that congregation speak very
loudly against those efforts as being wasteful of time and volunteer effort.

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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/21/19 1:15 PM, Naomi Slater wrote:
> 
> I feel like this is a good opportunity to bring up (as I have brought up
> before) the fact that "meritocracy" was invented for the purposes of a
> satirical *dystopian* novel.

Well, maybe. I kind of find that entire line of conversation to be just
an amusing sidebar, and not really relevant. But, then, this is a
favorite topic of debate with my linguist brother - the descriptive vs
prescriptive nature of definitions. :)

Word origins are just that - origins. What matters is the current
meaning, not where they originated. You can play that kind of game with
lots of English words, many of which have absurd origin stories.

I have a similar reaction to people who try to justify current
political policies by referencing the historical origin of their
opponent's political party.

What's relevant is now.

Many, many words that we rely on daily have contradictory origin
stories. "Awful" and "Terrible" are instructive examples.

> I *think* that on this particular mailing list, you're preaching to the
> choir. And that choir is notably much more diverse than the ASF at
> large. The challenge is spreading this story to the larger congregation.
> Particularly when certain vocal members of that congregation speak very
> loudly against those efforts as being wasteful of time and volunteer
> effort.
> 
> 
> but in your first email, re people getting offended, you said:
> 
> "I understand that these people exist, but citing them as representative
> seems weird."

Specifically, there, I'm talking about Stuart Varney, who is a nasty,
horrible person, and isn't representative of anyone here at the
Foundation, even the most horrible nasty person here.

Crafting our message for the small number of horrible people seems less
effective than crafting it for the large number of
well-intentioned-but-passive people, well-intentioned-but-unaware
people, and well-intentioned-but-unaffected-due-to-their-privilege people.

I firmly believe that most of the people here at the Foundation
genuinely want to do the right thing. That we haven't done the right
thing is not, for the most part, due to a malicious intention to do the
wrong thing. I try, really hard, to assume good intent when crafting
messages. If we assume everyone is Stuart Varney, we'll end up with
messaging that will offend everyone and inform nobody.

> my experience attempting to bring this sort of thing "to the
> congregation" (i.e., members@) in the past is *the primary reason* I
> burnt out and took hiatus for as long as I did. it was extremely
> exhausting. being challenged by multiple people on every little point.
> being drawn into long, circular, unproductive, and hostile arguments.
> having to manage other people's emotions/outrage/flames
> 
> traumatizing too, to be honest
> 
> it is ironic (and bitterly unfair) that this sort of work often has to
> be done by the people who have a material stake in what is being
> dismissed and who are already exhausted/traumatized from all the times
> they've had these sorts of conflicts before

Yes, agreed. Also ironic is how some of us who desperately want to help
are often unable to do so, because, as a white, middle aged, bearded,
financially successful man, I'm a large part of the problem, and so my
voice doesn't carry nearly the weight of yours.

> I don't know what to do, to be honest. I don't have the emotional or
> psychological health required to butt heads on members@ anymore

I am willing to take on that fight, whenever and however I can. I often
feel that I'm trying to mop up the sea with a paper towel. And these
discussions in Apache-land are pretty consistently LESS hostile than in
other communities I'm part of.

> perhaps a good first step would be to update the material the ComDev
> project is responsible for? phase out the word "meritocracy" (and maybe
> add a note that acknowledges this change and gives a rationale). reframe
> our values and approach as per my last email. from there, we could move
> on to http://theapacheway.com/ (if Shane is up for it) and then the
> Apache website proper, Incubator, etc. let it percolate through

+1 to phasing out the word. -0 to providing a rationale for doing so, as
it would seem to be a distraction, and picking a fight. Rather, finding
the right/best phrasing, and moving to it, without necessarily drawing
attention to the change, seems like a way to avoid pointless pushback
from our Usual Suspects that tend to poop on any attempt to balance our
community diversity.

FWIW:

[rbowen@sasha:comdev/site]$ grep -ri meritocracy | wc -l
4

So, that one's easy ...


[rbowen@sasha:apache/www-site]$ grep -ri meritocracy ./ | wc -l
150

Somewhat more challenging, an

Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

FYI, as you may have seen, I've made the following change in a couple of
places. I think it only goes part-way to solving the problem, but it
replaces "is" with "strives to be" in every place on
community.apache.org where this term occurs.

We can, of course, do more, but I didn't want to be random with it. I'd
like to come to an agreement as to what change, exactly, we wish to make.

This also ties in to the recent blog post -
https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-way-to-sustainable
- which, as you may note, doesn't use the term even once.

Anyways, I think we can, and should, start looking through the list of
150 on www.apache.org and seeing what changes should be made there.



[rbowen@sasha:content/apache-way]$ svn diff

 (03-21 14:27)
Index: apache-project-maturity-model.mdtext
===
--- apache-project-maturity-model.mdtext(revision 1856006)
+++ apache-project-maturity-model.mdtext(working copy)
@@ -179,7 +179,7 @@

 CO40
 
-The community is meritocratic and over time aims to give more rights and
+The community strives to be meritocratic and over time aims to give
more rights and
 responsibilities to contributors who add value to the project.
 


On 3/21/19 2:26 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> A few more hits on 'meritoc' since we use "meritocratic" some places.
> 
> 
> On 3/21/19 1:53 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>> FWIW:
>>
>> [rbowen@sasha:comdev/site]$ grep -ri meritocracy | wc -l
>> 4
>>
>> So, that one's easy ...
>>
>>
>> [rbowen@sasha:apache/www-site]$ grep -ri meritocracy ./ | wc -l
>> 150
>>
>> Somewhat more challenging, and would require considerable cooperation
>> from Sally to ensure that we are in line with approved messaging.
> 

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Establishing an Events PMC?

[Rich Bowen]

Several years ago, due to many reasons (let's call it "dysfunction" for
now) ConCom - the Conferences Committee - was disbanded by the Board,
and replaced with a single individual - myself - designated as VP
Conferences. This was largely due to break the gridlock of dealing with
30 people, with 50 opinions, for every single time-sensitive decision
around events.

So far, so good.

As we are faced with a sudden explosive expansion in our official stable
of events, we are building ad-hoc processes for managing these.

Again, so far, so good. Having dedicated per-event leads is working
remarkably well in 2019.

I have ... concerns ... going into 2020. With pushes to add events in
Brazil, China, South Korea, Japan, India, and who knows where else, I am
concerned that this is going to get away from us again. And it's not so
much about control, as about having early failures in new markets and
harming our chances for the future.

I would like, for example, to have policies around how we expand into
new regions. Like, say, that you can't do an "ApacheCon" in a new region
before doing a "Roadshow" there to scout it out, so to speak. I don't
want to squish enthusiasm. I also don't want to suddenly be expected to
fund, promote, and organize 8 conference with a machine designed to run two.

I digress.

I would like to propose the following.

1) That we (primarily, myself, Ross, and any former members of ConCom
who are able to participate) clearly document why ConCom failed, and was
disbanded. To do this in a dispassionate non-fault-finding way.

2) That we document how the new Events organization will be managed,
explicitly documenting ways that we will avoid the failings of ConCom.

3) That we establish a new Events PMC, documenting how it will related
to both Marketing and ComDev (since there will always be overlap in
those two places).

Ross, is this something that you can help me with over the coming 6
months or so?

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Re: Establishing an Events PMC?

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/22/19 12:59 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> I like the idea especially the roadshow first to establish a beachhead.  I
> would add that a collocated event might be ok in some circumstances too as
> a first landing.

Yes, I just added collocated as a category in the document I'm working
on. Thanks for that reminder.


> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 11:28 Rich Bowen  
>> Several years ago, due to many reasons (let's call it "dysfunction" for
>> now) ConCom - the Conferences Committee - was disbanded by the Board,
>> and replaced with a single individual - myself - designated as VP
>> Conferences. This was largely due to break the gridlock of dealing with
>> 30 people, with 50 opinions, for every single time-sensitive decision
>> around events.
>>
>> So far, so good.
>>
>> As we are faced with a sudden explosive expansion in our official stable
>> of events, we are building ad-hoc processes for managing these.
>>
>> Again, so far, so good. Having dedicated per-event leads is working
>> remarkably well in 2019.
>>
>> I have ... concerns ... going into 2020. With pushes to add events in
>> Brazil, China, South Korea, Japan, India, and who knows where else, I am
>> concerned that this is going to get away from us again. And it's not so
>> much about control, as about having early failures in new markets and
>> harming our chances for the future.
>>
>> I would like, for example, to have policies around how we expand into
>> new regions. Like, say, that you can't do an "ApacheCon" in a new region
>> before doing a "Roadshow" there to scout it out, so to speak. I don't
>> want to squish enthusiasm. I also don't want to suddenly be expected to
>> fund, promote, and organize 8 conference with a machine designed to run
>> two.
>>
>> I digress.
>>
>> I would like to propose the following.
>>
>> 1) That we (primarily, myself, Ross, and any former members of ConCom
>> who are able to participate) clearly document why ConCom failed, and was
>> disbanded. To do this in a dispassionate non-fault-finding way.
>>
>> 2) That we document how the new Events organization will be managed,
>> explicitly documenting ways that we will avoid the failings of ConCom.
>>
>> 3) That we establish a new Events PMC, documenting how it will related
>> to both Marketing and ComDev (since there will always be overlap in
>> those two places).
>>
>> Ross, is this something that you can help me with over the coming 6
>> months or so?
>>
>> --
>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com
>> http://rcbowen.com/
>> @rbowen
>>
>> -
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>>
>>
> 

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Re: Apache Brochure/Tri-Fold?

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/22/19 11:24 AM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote:
> Hi Roman,
> 
> I've tried to update it using GIMP, and it seems I can fix it. It refers to
> "Standard" font. If I set Arial it looks ok.
> 
> Can I commit changes later using general Apache Committer credentials or
> should I be committer in the ComDev?

One must be a ComDev committer to commit there.

> пт, 22 мар. 2019 г. в 05:21, Roman Shaposhnik :
> 
>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 6:23 PM Shane Curcuru 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Kevin A. McGrail wrote on 3/21/19 8:57 PM:
>>>> Anyone know where the source for this is at so I can print some for the
>>>> roadshow?
>>>
>>> Last updated 2017, but it is a trifold brochure layout:
>>>
>>>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/marketing/brochure/
>>
>> As a side note, the Russian translation has a very messed up font kerning.
>> Would be great to fix it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
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>>
> 

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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/22/19 12:49 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
> Hi Rich,
> 
> I’m not sure if you included the Incubator in your analysis. We have mentions 
> of meritoc on six pages along with references to foundation pages and links.
> 
> The pages are:
> 
> guides/proposal.html
> guides/graduation.html
> guides/community.html
> guides/ppmc.html
> index.html
> policy/incubation.html

I didn't, as that's not content that I've ever touched, so I don't have
a checkout of that.

> 
> Please provide guidance on changes to the Incubator.

Yeah, that guidance is definitely something we should come up with. But
I don't think that's going to be something that we can just issue an
edict on without broader discussion - a broader discussion which will
probably involve the membership, and much vitriol. Not looking forward
to that.

But my initial guidance, at least coming out of this thread, would be
edits that reflect s/is a meritocracy/strives towards meritocratic
ideals/ or something like that.

>> On Mar 22, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/19 10:55 AM, Naomi Slater wrote many good and helpful things.
>>
>> Narrowing it down to the "action items":
>>
>>> there are two issues here:
>>>
>>> (1) improving our external communication in a way that communicates our
>>> desire to build an inclusive, respectful, safe, and equitable organization
>>
>> This is something that we can do immediately, in small incremental
>> patches, as we find that content. I have, as mentioned, taken a first
>> (incomplete!) step to do this on community.apache.org
>>
>> I realized this morning that one of those changes may have stepped on
>> Bertrand's toes, since he was the primary driver behind the Maturity
>> Model prose, which is used in more than just this one place. We (I?)
>> need to connect with Bertrand to ensure that the change doesn't get
>> reverted in future iterations of that content.
>>
>> Meanwhile, anyone here can start looking through the 150 (ish?) places
>> on www.apache.org where the term meritocra(cy|tic) is used, and
>> determine whether it's valuable to enhance how that is phrased.
>>
>>> (2) actually changing the way that we operate to better work towards those
>>> goals
>>>
>>> doing (2) is where we will continue to be met with resistance. with people
>>> who are upset, offended, or irritated by the work we're trying to do, the
>>> things we're saying, and the changes we're trying to make
>>
>> To which we should, as the Community Development PMC, push back and
>> insist that we're working towards the development of the community, as
>> per our charter, and that the changes are NOT about what was done in the
>> past, or a slight against who did it, but that they are intended to
>> welcome the next generation of our community, and build a strong tomorrow.
>>
>> Whatever we have done wrong in the past, I feel like it's really
>> important to focus on the future. I mean, it's *useful*, as Naomi has
>> said, to understand the past, I don't know about y'all, but all I have
>> time for is the future.
>>
>> As was illustrated brilliantly when Sharan did the community survey a
>> couple of years ago, the people who complained that it was a waste of
>> time did not, in the long run, have any right to tell us not to waste
>> our time in that way. And good came from it.
>>
>> The "small incremental changes" model applies.
>>
>> -- 
>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com
>> http://rcbowen.com/
>> @rbowen
>>
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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/22/19 10:55 AM, Naomi Slater wrote many good and helpful things.

Narrowing it down to the "action items":

> there are two issues here:
> 
> (1) improving our external communication in a way that communicates our
> desire to build an inclusive, respectful, safe, and equitable organization

This is something that we can do immediately, in small incremental
patches, as we find that content. I have, as mentioned, taken a first
(incomplete!) step to do this on community.apache.org

I realized this morning that one of those changes may have stepped on
Bertrand's toes, since he was the primary driver behind the Maturity
Model prose, which is used in more than just this one place. We (I?)
need to connect with Bertrand to ensure that the change doesn't get
reverted in future iterations of that content.

Meanwhile, anyone here can start looking through the 150 (ish?) places
on www.apache.org where the term meritocra(cy|tic) is used, and
determine whether it's valuable to enhance how that is phrased.

> (2) actually changing the way that we operate to better work towards those
> goals
> 
> doing (2) is where we will continue to be met with resistance. with people
> who are upset, offended, or irritated by the work we're trying to do, the
> things we're saying, and the changes we're trying to make

To which we should, as the Community Development PMC, push back and
insist that we're working towards the development of the community, as
per our charter, and that the changes are NOT about what was done in the
past, or a slight against who did it, but that they are intended to
welcome the next generation of our community, and build a strong tomorrow.

Whatever we have done wrong in the past, I feel like it's really
important to focus on the future. I mean, it's *useful*, as Naomi has
said, to understand the past, I don't know about y'all, but all I have
time for is the future.

As was illustrated brilliantly when Sharan did the community survey a
couple of years ago, the people who complained that it was a waste of
time did not, in the long run, have any right to tell us not to waste
our time in that way. And good came from it.

The "small incremental changes" model applies.

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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

On 3/22/19 3:03 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> It would be very important to come up with a replacement that is
> as effective as what we're trying to replace. Frankly, I don't know
> a single candidate.

As discussed elsewhere in the thread, simply coming up with a new word,
while potentially helpful in starting conversations, doesn't really
address the underlying problem. And each new word (do-ocracy is one that
has been proposed, for example) comes with its own set of concerns and
baggage.

We have had the "what other word can we use" conversation at least once
on this mailing list, and at least one on members, in the last 2 years.
Neither conversation resulted in anything actionable.

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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Rich Bowen]

A few more hits on 'meritoc' since we use "meritocratic" some places.


On 3/21/19 1:53 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> FWIW:
> 
> [rbowen@sasha:comdev/site]$ grep -ri meritocracy | wc -l
> 4
> 
> So, that one's easy ...
> 
> 
> [rbowen@sasha:apache/www-site]$ grep -ri meritocracy ./ | wc -l
> 150
> 
> Somewhat more challenging, and would require considerable cooperation
> from Sally to ensure that we are in line with approved messaging.

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 Update

[Rich Bowen]

On 2/6/19 7:46 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> On 2/6/19 1:43 PM, Daniel Ruggeri wrote:
>> Hi, Sharan;
>>     Great summary! I am especially delighted to see the fresh take on
>> individual giving. I think that's a super cool idea. An idea for
>> future events: we could provide a QR code that leads to donate.a.o or,
>> as Kevin mentioned, physical card swipe capability on site. The
>> physical device is an idea only recently surfaced, but is in the
>> backlog for elaboration.
> 
> We were in fact discussing having something like the paypal reader at
> the conference! Beep, boop, done, €5 donated! or some such.
> 
> Another idea we had was live signup for mailing lists, as we sometimes
> have people who are very interested in a project or an idea, but then
> drop because SO MANY THINGS AT FOSDEM TO REMEMBER, so if we could have
> the chromebook have a "sign me up" kind of page, where people get subbed
> to the dev list and get an introduction a few days later, that would be
> awesome.

The dev list ... of a particular project? Or this dev list? Or ...
something else?

I imagine that most of the people that sign up would then pretty quickly
drop off again, but if we can capture even a handful of new interested
people, this would be a huge win.

Is there an appropriate foundation-wide list that we could put them on?
Like annou...@apache.org for example? Or this list? Presenting them a
list of 200 projects to choose from could be very intimidating, when we
have a minute or two to catch their attention.

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Re: Help with task: Ensure all Apache TLPs have Wikipedia pages

[Rich Bowen]

Has anyone verified where we are on this task, recently? I think we may
already have done this, and, if so, we really should drop this task from
the list. Can someone take a moment to verify where we stand on this?
Perhaps even one of the people who has said they want to help with the task?

Meanwhile, NONE of the people who have volunteered to help with this
have so much as responded to my followup emails to them. Has anyone else
had any followup from any of the volunteers?

--Rich

On 2/16/19 2:50 AM, S M wrote:
> I would like to help out with the task listed at /task.html?0b349bee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> تم الإرسال من جهاز Samsung
> 
> 
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Re: Use GitLab, not GitHub

[Rich Bowen]

On 2/18/19 9:13 AM, Julian Foad wrote:
> Every time I use GitHub I am supporting proprietary software and silo systems.
> 
> Every time I use GitLab I am supporting open source software and open systems.
> 
> I don't see the ASF's values being upheld by encouraging our projects to use 
> GitHub. To me it's equivalent to encouraging our members and contributors to 
> use Facebook instead of email for communication. In contrast to when we first 
> started down this path a few years ago, GitLab now provides a similar service 
> except it's also Free as in Freedom. By using GitLab, in addition to 
> supporting FOSS, we would also be able to adapt it to fit our needs and 
> desires. Use our own hostnames (gitlab.TLP.apache.org). Integrate with our 
> own user accounts. Own our own data. Our own project mirroring 
> configurations. With no obligation for infra to host and run it initially if 
> we prefer gitlab.com or another provider to do so. And no lock-in to the 
> vendor's policies and charges.
> 
> I strongly believe we should be transitioning to GitLab.
> 
> I assume I'm not the only one who thinks so. It would be nice to hear from 
> others a word of support, or better still anyone wanting to get started.
> 
> - Julian
> (no connections with the companies/products involved, just a desire for 
> software Freedom)
> https://blog.foad.me.uk/2018/11/28/use-gitlab-not-github/

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I'd like to point out two
things.

1) We *DO* own our own data. Github is only ever a mirror.

2) This is a decision made by Infra, at the extensive, YEARS-LONG
pressuring of our projects. This is something our projects wanted, and
demanded, and even, in cases, threatened to leave over. So you might
want to take it up with Infra, and with those projects, before investing
a lot of time into this. The ASF tries to offer services to projects,
based on what they ask for. Along the way, we use various third-party
services, from hosting, to monitoring solutions, to Git hosting
providers, because we lack the people-power to do everything ourselves.
This is often as much (more?) a financial decision as a philosophical one.

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Re: Use GitLab, not GitHub

[Rich Bowen]

On 2/18/19 12:38 PM, Austin Bennett wrote:
> Not taking a stance on any migration; can't help but wondering:  What
> prevents GitLab from getting to the point where GitHub is now and in the
> future an equivalent push is to be suggested to move away from GitLab?


Gitlab is MIT licensed, and the presumption from this thread is that we
would host it ourselves, rather than use a commercial service. Thus we
would own the data, and also "own" the code, even if Gitlab, the
company, decided to do something different in the future.



> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:23 AM Jorge Betancourt 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> It is true that Github is, at the end of the day, a commercial entity, and
>> that we're placing valuable metadata, regarding the changes that eventually
>> will end up being maintained by the members of our projects. Like Rich said
>> there is a great value on being reachable to outside contributors, and
>> right now I would say that a lot of them find use through Github because at
>> this point is a very logical assumption (from the user's point of view).
>>
>> I've seen that some projects (I've seen this on Nutch) mirror the
>> interactions on Github into Jira, at least as long as the PR is linked to
>> the appropriate issue in Jira, that way we still keep the conversation
>> around the proposed changes in our control. The integration could be
>> improved but I think this protects us partially. Perhaps this could be used
>> by more/all projects? At least it could be included in the contributions
>> guidelines of our repositories.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Jorge
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 3:39 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/18/19 9:30 AM, Julian Foad wrote:
>>>> Thanks for your comments, Rich.
>>>>
>>>> Re. "owning our data": we do own our source code but what about all the
>>> conversational metadata in GH? In the Subversion project we have a GH
>>> mirror of the code but pull requests and code comments etc. in GH aren't
>>> even copied to the Subversion PMC mailing lists, apart from the first
>>> message in each PR which is; these are known limitations.
>>>
>>> Indeed. This is a very good point.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Re. "infra": infra is here to create and manage the infra to support
>> the
>>> projects' wants and needs; I am speaking here to the community to try to
>>> influence their wants and needs.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I would also like to see us move away from GitHub. But the
>>> argument that it's where people look first, is compelling. Perhaps we
>>> can be influential in changing that? I don't know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com
>>> http://rcbowen.com/
>>> @rbowen
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
> 

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Re: Use GitLab, not GitHub

[Rich Bowen]

On 2/18/19 9:30 AM, Julian Foad wrote:
> Thanks for your comments, Rich.
> 
> Re. "owning our data": we do own our source code but what about all the 
> conversational metadata in GH? In the Subversion project we have a GH mirror 
> of the code but pull requests and code comments etc. in GH aren't even copied 
> to the Subversion PMC mailing lists, apart from the first message in each PR 
> which is; these are known limitations.

Indeed. This is a very good point.

> 
> Re. "infra": infra is here to create and manage the infra to support the 
> projects' wants and needs; I am speaking here to the community to try to 
> influence their wants and needs.

Yeah, I would also like to see us move away from GitHub. But the
argument that it's where people look first, is compelling. Perhaps we
can be influential in changing that? I don't know.



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Re: Use GitLab, not GitHub

[Rich Bowen]

On 2/18/19 12:54 PM, Julian Foad wrote:
> Rich Bowen wrote:
>> Gitlab is MIT licensed, and the presumption from this thread is that we
>> would host it ourselves [...]
> 
> Correction: *could* host it ourselves -- if we wanted or needed to. I 
> explicitly didn't presume that we would.
> 

Ah. Ok, I misunderstood. Not sure I see a difference, then, if we don't
host it ourselves.

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Re: JBCNConf Request for Community Partnership

[Rich Bowen]

Yes, the way that conversation unfolded was regretable, muddled, and
misleading. I apologize for how that all unfolded.

Clearer policies, and documentation, of what kinds of events we are able
to support, and exactly how we can support them, are a must going
forward. And that's on me.

Regarding JBCNConf, I have some tweets scheduled, and will update that
as soon as we have a published schedule. I will look to you for help
identifying which talks we want to highlight.

Thanks.

On 2/12/19 4:10 AM, Ignasi Barrera wrote:
> Please, s/Ignaci/Ignasi/
> 
> I've been talking to Jonathan too. As a not-for-profit event, they really
> wanted to have some open source community presence there, and they came up
> with this new proposal to see if that would make sense for Apache.
> 
> Just to be clear, I'm not mad at anyone, nor I'm unhappy with your
> declining to put money into this event. I fully understand the reasons and
> I'm the kind of person that understands a no. I was disappointed by how the
> conversations here, inside the ASF, were broken and became a real blocker
> to shaping a proper collaboration plan. But that doesn't mean I'm mad at
> anyone or that I take things personally. I am (and will be) always open to
> talk to anyone so please, don't project that image of me, especially on a
> public list.
> 
> This said, I felt bad about the poor communication experience we initially
> delivered to them, and I offered to join their volunteer group and give a
> hand on the organization of the event, so although I will be there, I can't
> commit to staffing the booth full-time. I'll be more than happy to help
> with the logistics, setting it up (I also still have some stickers and a
> feather rollout, if we are allowed to use it), and being there at the booth
> when time allows, but I can't commit to staffing it full-time.
> 
> Regarding Twitter, I'd suggest we promote any talk that is about an Apache
> project, even if the speaker is not an Apache contributor. The event will
> have high-profile speakers and lots of Java Champions, and IMO having
> Apache related talks there is a great way to put the projects on the radar
> of cool and relevant technologies today (my $0.02 with this regard).
> 
> 
> You can count on my help, taking into account the mentioned limitations.
> 
> 
> I.
> 
> 
> P.S. I also submitted a talk, although it is not related to Apache
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 22:43, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> 
>> If we want to take advantage of the booth, then, yeah, we'd need to find
>> someone to staff it. I expect that Ignaci will be attending, but I know
>> he's less than happy with us (well, me) about our (my) declining to put
>> money into the event, so probably someone else should talk with him
>> about it.
>>
>> On 2/11/19 4:36 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>>> That's great Rich, thanks.  Anything Jonathan needs to do?  Get you the
>>> information to send out?  Pick someone to represent the ASF at the shared
>>> booth?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kevin A. McGrail
>>> Member, Apache Software Foundation
>>> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 4:35 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, we do intend to promote this event. We already have Twitter content
>>>> scheduled, and would be glad to add your talk (if accepted) to that
>>>> content.
>>>>
>>>> --Rich
>>>>
>>>> On 2/11/19 4:22 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathan Vila, cc'd, is organizing https://www.jbcnconf.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> The are looking for the ASF to be a community partner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Community Partners will share 1 free stand and get 1 free ticket for
>>>> every
>>>>> community represented there.  The responsibilities of the community
>>>> partner
>>>>> is to share the conference with members to help with promotion.  Is
>> this
>>>>> something the ASF can do?
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTE: I've submitted a talk for the event
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> KAM
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kevin A. McGrail
>>>>> Member, Apache Software Foundation
>>>>> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rc

Re: How to make Jira issues appear at URLs like PROJECT.apache.org/issue/NUMBER

[Rich Bowen]

There's two possible approaches that come to mind

I suspect that you could do this with a combination of:

* mod_rewrite RewriteRule [P] (proxy) rules

  RewriteRule ^/issue[^A-Za-z0-9]?(\d+)$
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SVN-$1 [P,L]
  ProxyPassReverse /issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/

(Untested, but looks right)

* mod_substitute, or mod_proxy_html rules to munge the content of the
actual returned pages

  (For implementation help, perhaps a longer discussion not on this list
would be warranted.)

OR

Work directly with Infra to make something like this happen with some
kind of virtualhost mapping to issues.apache.org, or ... something.


On 2/13/19 6:50 AM, Julian Foad wrote:
> In Apache Subversion's .htaccess we have this RedirectMatch rule:
> 
> RedirectMatch ^/issue[^A-Za-z0-9]?(\d+)$ 
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SVN-$1
> 
> It redirects a URL like
>   https://subversion.apache.org/issue/4567
> to
>   https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SVN-4567
> 
> Why? Human-friendly, technology-neutral, project-owned URLs. Previously we 
> used a completely different issue tracker (Bugzilla/Issuezilla hosted at a 
> different site) and a corresponding rewrite rule. The redirect enabled some 
> of our references to issues to remain stable when we migrated to a different 
> tracker. That's just one of the reasons for it, perhaps not the most 
> important one.
> 
> But... a redirect gets us less than half way, because it doesn't map the URLs 
> displayed in the browser back the other way. In practice, the URLs we write 
> in email, in code comments, etc. are often copied straight from the browser; 
> we don't bother to manually translate them back to neutral form.
> 
> So... How can we do this properly? I assume it requires native support from 
> Jira, which I assume exists because its the sort of thing enterprise 
> deployments would want.
> 
> More generally, I would like to discuss and learn about anybody's efforts to 
> achieve anything similar for any of a project's web resources -- wiki pages, 
> commits, mailing list posts, etc. (What should I call this topic?)
> 

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Re: JBCNConf Request for Community Partnership

[Rich Bowen]

Yes, we do intend to promote this event. We already have Twitter content
scheduled, and would be glad to add your talk (if accepted) to that content.

--Rich

On 2/11/19 4:22 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> Hi Sharan,
> 
> Jonathan Vila, cc'd, is organizing https://www.jbcnconf.com/
> 
> The are looking for the ASF to be a community partner.
> 
> Community Partners will share 1 free stand and get 1 free ticket for every
> community represented there.  The responsibilities of the community partner
> is to share the conference with members to help with promotion.  Is this
> something the ASF can do?
> 
> NOTE: I've submitted a talk for the event
> 
> Regards,
> KAM
> 
> --
> Kevin A. McGrail
> Member, Apache Software Foundation
> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
> 

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Re: JBCNConf Request for Community Partnership

[Rich Bowen]

If we want to take advantage of the booth, then, yeah, we'd need to find
someone to staff it. I expect that Ignaci will be attending, but I know
he's less than happy with us (well, me) about our (my) declining to put
money into the event, so probably someone else should talk with him
about it.

On 2/11/19 4:36 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> That's great Rich, thanks.  Anything Jonathan needs to do?  Get you the
> information to send out?  Pick someone to represent the ASF at the shared
> booth?
> 
> --
> Kevin A. McGrail
> Member, Apache Software Foundation
> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 4:35 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
> 
>> Yes, we do intend to promote this event. We already have Twitter content
>> scheduled, and would be glad to add your talk (if accepted) to that
>> content.
>>
>> --Rich
>>
>> On 2/11/19 4:22 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>
>>> Jonathan Vila, cc'd, is organizing https://www.jbcnconf.com/
>>>
>>> The are looking for the ASF to be a community partner.
>>>
>>> Community Partners will share 1 free stand and get 1 free ticket for
>> every
>>> community represented there.  The responsibilities of the community
>> partner
>>> is to share the conference with members to help with promotion.  Is this
>>> something the ASF can do?
>>>
>>> NOTE: I've submitted a talk for the event
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> KAM
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kevin A. McGrail
>>> Member, Apache Software Foundation
>>> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com
>> http://rcbowen.com/
>> @rbowen
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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>>
> 

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Re: [CHICAGO] Roadshow schedule is up

[Rich Bowen]

We certainly could. Is there a reason not to? ( I ask that rather than the
more obvious question of whether we should do this. I am generally in favor
of trusting our members.) I guess this is a question of policy for the
Community Development PMC to address.

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 11:34 Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Bob is a Foundation Member. You could grant access to all Members, right?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 8, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> >
> > This remains an unsolved problem - granting write access to our event
> websites to people who are not ComDev committers, without voting them in.
> This seems like something that needs to happen - it's in the way of getting
> work done - but the way that ACLs are applied makes us required to jump
> through the hoops.
> >
> > Any suggestions of how to fix this quickly?
> >
> >
> >  Forwarded Message 
> > Subject:Re: [CHICAGO] Roadshow schedule is up
> > Date:Thu, 4 Apr 2019 18:07:42 -0500
> > From:Bob Paulin 
> > Reply-To:plann...@apachecon.com
> > To:plann...@apachecon.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can anyone grant me access (username is bob) on the apachecon repo where
> the roadshow is hosted?  I need to update someone's employer before they
> get in trouble.  Thanks!
> >
> > 
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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>
>
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>
>

Re: [Discuss] Attributing contributions to commercial vendors investing in projects

[Rich Bowen]

By policy and long-standing tradition, no. Companies do not participate 
in projects. Individuals participate in projects.


It's possible I misunderstand the question, but this is something we 
have always discouraged.


On 4/17/19 2:27 PM, Griselda Cuevas wrote:

Hi ComDev,

What are your opinions/best practices on attributing contributions to
commercial vendors who support an Apache project. I recently had a few
discussions with folks in OSS and they convinced me on this being a good
idea because it has a two-fold purpose:


1.

It brings clarity to project roadmap and dependencies.
Knowing what companies are investing in a given area, allows users &
contributors know who to contact to move their own contributions faster and
gives companies the ability to accept user suggestions.



1.

Gives recognition to the companies (or individuals) who are investing in
Airflow.
This in the long term adds value to the project brand itself as it’s
easy to demonstrate who is using/contributing to the project.


So my question is: Have you seen this done in a project? If yes, how they
do it? Would you support this?

I want to clarify that I understand that Open Source is about the
individuals and not the companies, however I also see the need for
transparency for the sake of project agility.

Thanks

G



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Re: help with Wikipedia task

[Rich Bowen]

Bob Marley? Really?

I'm increasingly coming to believe that everything coming through on the 
"help wanted" thing is spam, and it may be time to shut it down. 
Discouraging, given our high hopes going in.


On 4/16/19 3:49 PM, Bob Marley wrote:

Hi,

I could help with the task:

https://helpwanted.apache.org/task.html?0b349bee48c7e47a20fb29222b8217fa61b11d31
Task #0b349bee: Ensure all Apache TLPs have Wikipedia pages

What would be the first step?

Thanks!



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Re: Roadshow Seattle

[Rich Bowen]

Fyi, we're in the peocess of drafting a bid process for roadshows.

Basically, if you want asf funding for a roadshow you're going to need to
jump through a few hoops to get it. We cannot support N roadshows every
year if N keeps growing.

Otoh if you don't need any budget support, and you don't need any promotion
support, then we only require that a member is involved for you to use the
"Apache Roadshow" name, but understand that other than the name you're
pretty much on your own at that point.

We're not trying to squash your fun but the budget and volunteer support
only goes so far.

We also don't want to create a situation where we are competing with our
own events. So please note the existing event schedule -
https://events.apache.org/ - and don't put something on the same land mass
within 3 months of one of our official events.

These rules will evolve and will be documented on events.a.o as soon as we
figure out what they are but I'm pretty sure that the above is the skeleton
of what we will end up with.

Rich, VP Events
plann...@apachecon.com

On Tue, May 14, 2019, 13:22 Andrew Musselman  wrote:

> If there's any interest in putting one on in Seattle I'd love to organize
> one.
>
> I believe have a lot of Apache folks in town and it would be a great excuse
> to get them together.
>
> Best
> Andrew
>

Separating apachecon.com svn from comdev

[Rich Bowen]

I have created the following Jira ticket: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-320


The request is as follows:


>>
Having the apachecon website svn rep tied to the comdev acl is causing 
difficulties. Specifically, we have to make someone a comdev committer 
for them to edit a web page, and that's broken.


I would like to split apachecon.com svn repo from the comdev repo, and 
create a new acl where we can have "committers" for that repo who are 
not asf committers (think event producers) and who probably haven't 
signed CLAs (because why would they?). Is this a thing we can do? Are 
there policy considerations, or can we JFDI?

<<

This is more FYI than asking for advice, comments, input, whatever. 
However, if there are any large concerns around this, please speak up. I 
expect, however, that this is obvious and uncontroversial.


Thanks.


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Re: Separating apachecon.com svn from comdev

[Rich Bowen]

And, as is usual when the issue of the apachecon website comes up, this 
has become more complicated than I thought it would be.


Those of you who are maintaining a current Apache event website (ie, me, 
Myrle, and Trevor) might want to track this ticket over the coming days. 
Or I will send periodic updates until the can of worms is reclosed.



On 5/17/19 9:39 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
I have created the following Jira ticket: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-320


The request is as follows:


 >>
Having the apachecon website svn rep tied to the comdev acl is causing 
difficulties. Specifically, we have to make someone a comdev committer 
for them to edit a web page, and that's broken.


I would like to split apachecon.com svn repo from the comdev repo, and 
create a new acl where we can have "committers" for that repo who are 
not asf committers (think event producers) and who probably haven't 
signed CLAs (because why would they?). Is this a thing we can do? Are 
there policy considerations, or can we JFDI?

<<

This is more FYI than asking for advice, comments, input, whatever. 
However, if there are any large concerns around this, please speak up. I 
expect, however, that this is obvious and uncontroversial.


Thanks.




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Re: ACNA Hackathon - Volunteer(s) needed

[Rich Bowen]

On 5/27/19 9:45 AM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:

Is the hackathon run all the days of the event?


Yes. All day, every day, in Laughlin 3. Round tables. Power and network. 
Nothing else provided.



--
Kevin A. McGrail
Member, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171


On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 9:44 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:


I need 1 to 3 volunteers to own the Hackathon for ACNA.

The Hackathon has long been a central part of ApacheCon. However, the
success of the hackathon waxes and wanes over the years, due largely to
whether someone steps up to drive it.

The hackathon has multiple intertwined purposes:

* Attract and mentor new committers
* Strengthen personal bonds within project community
* Foster cross-project cooperation
* Knock out difficult bugs/features/documentation projects

For this to be successful, the following things need to happen

* Projects need to know about it
* They need to prepare ahead of time. In particular, they need to think
about what they will be working on
* The plan (ie, what we'll be working on) must be promoted both within
the project (so that core project members show up prepared) and outside
(so that curious people show up and play along)
* There needs to be great signage on-site, and we need to mention it at
every plenary

To this end, I need someone(s) to step up to own this. I do not have
time to be the point person on this.

I need someone who cares about building project communities, is
enthusiastic about working directly with projects to build their
hackathon plans, and who plans to attend ACNA to do the on-site stuff
necessary to support the above. I need someone who is willing to take
the reins on this and drive it without much direction from me or anyone
else, and just report back periodically on progress.

Please let me know if you are willing to lead this effort. Thank you.

(Note: If you're on the other side of the pond, I expect that Myrle will
also be looking for someone to do this for ACEU, too.)

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ACNA Hackathon - Volunteer(s) needed

[Rich Bowen]

I need 1 to 3 volunteers to own the Hackathon for ACNA.

The Hackathon has long been a central part of ApacheCon. However, the 
success of the hackathon waxes and wanes over the years, due largely to 
whether someone steps up to drive it.


The hackathon has multiple intertwined purposes:

* Attract and mentor new committers
* Strengthen personal bonds within project community
* Foster cross-project cooperation
* Knock out difficult bugs/features/documentation projects

For this to be successful, the following things need to happen

* Projects need to know about it
* They need to prepare ahead of time. In particular, they need to think 
about what they will be working on
* The plan (ie, what we'll be working on) must be promoted both within 
the project (so that core project members show up prepared) and outside 
(so that curious people show up and play along)
* There needs to be great signage on-site, and we need to mention it at 
every plenary


To this end, I need someone(s) to step up to own this. I do not have 
time to be the point person on this.


I need someone who cares about building project communities, is 
enthusiastic about working directly with projects to build their 
hackathon plans, and who plans to attend ACNA to do the on-site stuff 
necessary to support the above. I need someone who is willing to take 
the reins on this and drive it without much direction from me or anyone 
else, and just report back periodically on progress.


Please let me know if you are willing to lead this effort. Thank you.

(Note: If you're on the other side of the pond, I expect that Myrle will 
also be looking for someone to do this for ACEU, too.)


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http://rcbowen.com/
@rbowen

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Re: ACNA Hackathon - Volunteer(s) needed

[Rich Bowen]

Awesome. It sounds like we have the three hackathon leads/volunteers - 
Rob Tompkins, Steve Blackmon, and Kevin McGrail - which seems like the 
ideal number for a leadership group. Do feel free to recruit more 
volunteers to help with the work. I'll reach out every month for updates 
for my board report.


And, of course, I'm very willing to share history, expectations, 
insight, advice, and so on. And you, in turn, are very welcome to take 
the reins and drive it in a new direction if you have the inspiration to 
do so.


Thanks!

On 5/27/19 1:35 PM, Steve Blackmon wrote:

I am willing to lead (or to assist) hackathon coordination.  I have 
participated over the past several years and run similar local events, so I 
think I have a decent idea of what needs to happen on site, and believe I can 
do a decent job of motivating project participation.

The more volunteers the better I suspect, as there will be a lot of threads to 
start and follow-up on.
On May 27, 2019, 9:37 AM -0500, Rob Tompkins , wrote:




On May 27, 2019, at 7:50 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:




On 5/27/19 9:45 AM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
Is the hackathon run all the days of the event?


Yes. All day, every day, in Laughlin 3. Round tables. Power and network. 
Nothing else provided.



Happy to help on this one. As I haven’t owned anything like this, I’ll need 
guidance.

-Rob


--
Kevin A. McGrail
Member, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 9:44 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:
I need 1 to 3 volunteers to own the Hackathon for ACNA.

The Hackathon has long been a central part of ApacheCon. However, the
success of the hackathon waxes and wanes over the years, due largely to
whether someone steps up to drive it.

The hackathon has multiple intertwined purposes:

* Attract and mentor new committers
* Strengthen personal bonds within project community
* Foster cross-project cooperation
* Knock out difficult bugs/features/documentation projects

For this to be successful, the following things need to happen

* Projects need to know about it
* They need to prepare ahead of time. In particular, they need to think
about what they will be working on
* The plan (ie, what we'll be working on) must be promoted both within
the project (so that core project members show up prepared) and outside
(so that curious people show up and play along)
* There needs to be great signage on-site, and we need to mention it at
every plenary

To this end, I need someone(s) to step up to own this. I do not have
time to be the point person on this.

I need someone who cares about building project communities, is
enthusiastic about working directly with projects to build their
hackathon plans, and who plans to attend ACNA to do the on-site stuff
necessary to support the above. I need someone who is willing to take
the reins on this and drive it without much direction from me or anyone
else, and just report back periodically on progress.

Please let me know if you are willing to lead this effort. Thank you.

(Note: If you're on the other side of the pond, I expect that Myrle will
also be looking for someone to do this for ACEU, too.)

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http://rcbowen.com/
@rbowen

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Re: ACNA Hackathon - Volunteer(s) needed

[Rich Bowen]

This sounds like a great thing to have as part of the hackathon. Perhaps
cover part of this at the start of each day? None of these things are
specific to Beam but apply to  all projects right?

On Tue, May 28, 2019, 12:09 Austin Bennett 
wrote:

> Hi Rich,
>
> Great; sounds like we'll plan on a hands-on developing things *in*/*using*
> Beam.  What about contributing workshop?  It sounds like a Hackathon space
> might help people understand things like: specifics of getting Jira
> username, finding issues, ?signing ICLA?, knowing to subscribe to dev/user
> lists, etc?  Many of us not having attended previous ApacheCon(s) are
> unsure the audience, alternate tracks, etc etc.
>
> Cheers,
> Austin
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 5:35 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 5/27/19 6:11 PM, Austin Bennett wrote:
>> > Great to hear this is coming together.  I'm happy to help getting
>> movement
>> > from the Beam Community.
>> >
>> > Very interested to hear concrete plans for hackathon, it will inform the
>> > rest of what content we offer in the Beam tracks.  At prior beam summits
>> > (ex: beamsummit.org), we've had intro to contributing workshops, and
>> > working with (hands-on) beam.  We think these things are good for
>> people to
>> > do, though it sounds like getting setup for contributing code would
>> largely
>> > be covered in a hackathon?  What about getting something working --
>> hacking
>> > on a project (ex: getting a beam pipeline or something like a spark ml
>> job
>> > running).
>> >
>> > Wanting to ensure that we don't unnecessarily have overlapping/competing
>> > content.
>> >
>> > @rob, @Kevin, @Steve -- maybe let me know as you start to get this
>> worked
>> > out.  Happy to attempt to listen in on history lesson, should you
>> arrange
>> > something with @rich.
>>
>> The kind of session you're talking about - hands-on, mentored workshops
>> - are awesome and encouraged, and do not, in my opinion, conflict with a
>> more passive "come join us" central hackathon space. Indeed, they
>> complement one another, and each should promote the other.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:55 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Awesome. It sounds like we have the three hackathon leads/volunteers -
>> >> Rob Tompkins, Steve Blackmon, and Kevin McGrail - which seems like the
>> >> ideal number for a leadership group. Do feel free to recruit more
>> >> volunteers to help with the work. I'll reach out every month for
>> updates
>> >> for my board report.
>> >>
>> >> And, of course, I'm very willing to share history, expectations,
>> >> insight, advice, and so on. And you, in turn, are very welcome to take
>> >> the reins and drive it in a new direction if you have the inspiration
>> to
>> >> do so.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> On 5/27/19 1:35 PM, Steve Blackmon wrote:
>> >>> I am willing to lead (or to assist) hackathon coordination.  I have
>> >> participated over the past several years and run similar local events,
>> so I
>> >> think I have a decent idea of what needs to happen on site, and
>> believe I
>> >> can do a decent job of motivating project participation.
>> >>>
>> >>> The more volunteers the better I suspect, as there will be a lot of
>> >> threads to start and follow-up on.
>> >>> On May 27, 2019, 9:37 AM -0500, Rob Tompkins ,
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On May 27, 2019, at 7:50 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 5/27/19 9:45 AM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>> >>>>>> Is the hackathon run all the days of the event?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Yes. All day, every day, in Laughlin 3. Round tables. Power and
>> >> network. Nothing else provided.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Happy to help on this one. As I haven’t owned anything like this,
>> I’ll
>> >> need guidance.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -Rob
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Kevin A. McGrail
>> >>>>>> Member, Apache Software Foundation
>> >>>&g

Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?

[Rich Bowen]

On 6/7/19 3:26 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

Hi Chris,

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 4:02 PM Christofer Dutz
  wrote:

...I would really like to create an...@apache.org  mailinglist...

Allow me to insist;-)

What's wrong with an [iot] subject line tag on at...@apache.org  mailing list?


I've heard of this tech@ list, but never subscribed. I just went looking 
for it, to see what traffic was like, and it is not listed on 
lists.apache.org . Is this a theoretical list, or an actual one?


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Re: ACNA Hackathon - Volunteer(s) needed

[Rich Bowen]

On 5/27/19 6:11 PM, Austin Bennett wrote:

Great to hear this is coming together.  I'm happy to help getting movement
from the Beam Community.

Very interested to hear concrete plans for hackathon, it will inform the
rest of what content we offer in the Beam tracks.  At prior beam summits
(ex: beamsummit.org), we've had intro to contributing workshops, and
working with (hands-on) beam.  We think these things are good for people to
do, though it sounds like getting setup for contributing code would largely
be covered in a hackathon?  What about getting something working -- hacking
on a project (ex: getting a beam pipeline or something like a spark ml job
running).

Wanting to ensure that we don't unnecessarily have overlapping/competing
content.

@rob, @Kevin, @Steve -- maybe let me know as you start to get this worked
out.  Happy to attempt to listen in on history lesson, should you arrange
something with @rich.


The kind of session you're talking about - hands-on, mentored workshops 
- are awesome and encouraged, and do not, in my opinion, conflict with a 
more passive "come join us" central hackathon space. Indeed, they 
complement one another, and each should promote the other.





On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:55 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:


Awesome. It sounds like we have the three hackathon leads/volunteers -
Rob Tompkins, Steve Blackmon, and Kevin McGrail - which seems like the
ideal number for a leadership group. Do feel free to recruit more
volunteers to help with the work. I'll reach out every month for updates
for my board report.

And, of course, I'm very willing to share history, expectations,
insight, advice, and so on. And you, in turn, are very welcome to take
the reins and drive it in a new direction if you have the inspiration to
do so.

Thanks!

On 5/27/19 1:35 PM, Steve Blackmon wrote:

I am willing to lead (or to assist) hackathon coordination.  I have

participated over the past several years and run similar local events, so I
think I have a decent idea of what needs to happen on site, and believe I
can do a decent job of motivating project participation.


The more volunteers the better I suspect, as there will be a lot of

threads to start and follow-up on.

On May 27, 2019, 9:37 AM -0500, Rob Tompkins ,

wrote:




On May 27, 2019, at 7:50 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:




On 5/27/19 9:45 AM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
Is the hackathon run all the days of the event?


Yes. All day, every day, in Laughlin 3. Round tables. Power and

network. Nothing else provided.




Happy to help on this one. As I haven’t owned anything like this, I’ll

need guidance.


-Rob


--
Kevin A. McGrail
Member, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 9:44 AM Rich Bowen 

wrote:

I need 1 to 3 volunteers to own the Hackathon for ACNA.

The Hackathon has long been a central part of ApacheCon. However, the
success of the hackathon waxes and wanes over the years, due largely

to

whether someone steps up to drive it.

The hackathon has multiple intertwined purposes:

* Attract and mentor new committers
* Strengthen personal bonds within project community
* Foster cross-project cooperation
* Knock out difficult bugs/features/documentation projects

For this to be successful, the following things need to happen

* Projects need to know about it
* They need to prepare ahead of time. In particular, they need to

think

about what they will be working on
* The plan (ie, what we'll be working on) must be promoted both

within

the project (so that core project members show up prepared) and

outside

(so that curious people show up and play along)
* There needs to be great signage on-site, and we need to mention it

at

every plenary

To this end, I need someone(s) to step up to own this. I do not have
time to be the point person on this.

I need someone who cares about building project communities, is
enthusiastic about working directly with projects to build their
hackathon plans, and who plans to attend ACNA to do the on-site stuff
necessary to support the above. I need someone who is willing to take
the reins on this and drive it without much direction from me or

anyone

else, and just report back periodically on progress.

Please let me know if you are willing to lead this effort. Thank you.

(Note: If you're on the other side of the pond, I expect that Myrle

will

also be looking for someone to do this for ACEU, too.)

--
Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com
http://rcbowen.com/
@rbowen

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Re: Booth Volunteers Needed for ApacheCon NA Las Vegas

[Rich Bowen]

Re: Stickers -

I'm sure you already have, but please be sure to talk with Sally about 
stickers and swag. In particular, I would very much like to have 
something that emphasizes the 20th anniversary, and possibly 
incorporates both feathers.


On 6/11/19 5:52 PM, Sharan Foga wrote:

  Hi All

ApacheCon NA will be running from 9th - 12th September 2019 in Las Vegas. We 
are celebrating 25 years of Apache so let's make the celebration a big one!

We are looking for volunteers to help out with the setup and staffing of the 
Apache booth during ApacheCon. If you havent experienced it already, the ASF 
booth is always a great hub of activity and also a central meeting point. 
During the conference the main booth duties will be talking to attendees about 
the ASF and handing out stickers, leaflets or
  giveaways.

  If you’d like to spend time on the booth talking to attendees to help  
promote your project and grow your community then even giving up even 30 
minutes  or an hour of your time will be welcome. The more projects we have, 
the greater the chance of perhaps recruiting new contributors and we always 
have people wanting to talk about specific projects.

I’ve started drafting a wiki page to help with the booth planning and am  happy 
to have any suggestions for improvement!

https://s.apache.org/1Duo

If you would like to help out then please either respond to this thread or add 
your details to the wiki page.

  Thanks
  Sharan

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ComDev website, pelican

[Rich Bowen]

Long, long ago I opened this: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-15387


It has recently been woken up again.

I'm looking for someone to take the reins on this, since I do not really 
have time to do it any time before September.


Any volunteers?

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Re: ComDev website, pelican

[Rich Bowen]

On 5/20/19 3:08 PM, Andrew Musselman wrote:

Assuming the goal is a straight lift and shift from CMS to pelican, I could
commit to starting a skeleton and setting up a workflow for other
volunteers to convert existing content to markdown files.

Not this month, but during June if that works.



Works for me. Sooner than I'd get to it.

--Rich



On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:43 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:


Long, long ago I opened this:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-15387

It has recently been woken up again.

I'm looking for someone to take the reins on this, since I do not really
have time to do it any time before September.

Any volunteers?

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Re: SkyWalking DevCon 2019

[Rich Bowen]

I have scheduled a promotional tweet about this on the @ApacheCommunity 
Twitter, and I have added it to the Apache events calendar at 
https://events.apache.org/index.html


On 4/25/19 8:50 PM, Sheng Wu wrote:

Hi,

I am glad to share, Apache SkyWalking community will host DevCon 2019 in
Shanghai, China.
You could join us on-site or online through this,
http://www.itdks.com/Home/Act/apply?id=2848=57437

We will have at least 100 on-site attendees, and 70 online. Welcome more
people to join us.

Date, May 11th 10:00-17:00, 2019
Location, 杨浦区大学路322号(#322 Daxue Road, Yangpu District), Shanghai, China

As this event is in China, all information is put in Chinese. If you need
help to English, please mail d...@skywalking.apache.org, we could help you
there.

Sheng Wu 吴晟

Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
Twitter, wusheng1108



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Re: Any chance we can update HelpWanted?

[Rich Bowen]

On 4/26/19 2:07 PM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote:

Hi Sally,

According to feedback from folks here, we can't edit existing tasks, but
any Apache committer can mark any task as done and create a new one.

I'm aware of only one task from Com.Dev project - it is an update of
Wikipedia pages.



However, the service itself is "owned" by comdev, and lives in comdev's 
svn repo.


What we need, then, is a help wanted task for adding features to help 
wanted.



Hello ComDev-ers! I hope everyone is doing well.

I was preparing a promotion for HelpWanted https://helpwanted.apache.org/
but noticed that some of the entries are rather old, dating back to
February 2016.

Is there any way this page can be updated a bit more regularly?

If this is a worthwhile/used service, I'll see if we can also make it look
a little more "current" as well.

Kind thanks in advance,
Sally

- - -
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
Vice President Sponsor Relations
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656 | s...@apache.org

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Re: [VOTE] ComDev supports formation of D committee

[Rich Bowen]

 I too believe this to be part of ComDev's charter, but it is clear that we
have done little to address it since the formation of this PMC. So indeed
perhaps it is the time to try something new.

+1 to that something new although I remain ambivalent to what specific form
this committee/pmc/thingy should take.

On Mon, May 6, 2019, 06:55 Ulrich Stärk  wrote:

> +0
>
> not sure if a president's committee is the best way of getting this done
> or whether it would be
> better to have it as part of comdev. But better do something than nothing
> at all. Plus, we can fix
> stuff later so I'll leave it to those wanting to drive it to figure it out.
>
> Uli
>
> On 05.05.19 00:06, Myrle Krantz wrote:
> > I propose that ComDev submmit the following statement to the board:
> >
> > "The ComDev PMC hereby requests that the board create a President's
> > committee tasked with supporting our communities in their efforts to be
> > diverse and welcoming places, and tasked with helping the ASF formulate a
> > strategy to improve our diversity and inclusiveness.  The ComDev PMC
> > likewise formally requests that the new committee look for ways in which
> > ComDev can support our progress in these areas."
> >
> > Here's my +1.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Myrle
> > PMC Member, Apache Community Development
> >
>
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>

Re: New inter-project Mailinglist i...@apache.org created

[Rich Bowen]

On 7/5/19 9:34 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

Hi,

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:06 PM Christofer Dutz
 wrote:

...I'll whip up an email text and we'll fire it out...


IMHO a persistent URL is more effective as it allows you to
re-advertise later as needed.

Maybe something at http://plc4x.apache.org/ as you are driving this,
or under https://blogs.apache.org/comdev/

And you can then send that URL by email + twitter or any other channel etc.



meta-comment: Having a "what is this mailing list for" page for *all* of 
our mailing lists would be awesome. Possibly as part of 
lists.apache.org. Hmmm. Possibly something to add to PonyMail. /me adds 
it to The List.


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Re: New inter-project Mailinglist i...@apache.org created

[Rich Bowen]

On 7/5/19 8:35 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

Hi,

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 2:18 PM Julian Feinauer
 wrote:

...But its hard to find all projects that consider themselves relevant (and 
podlings), or?...


I don't like saying "I told you so" in general but maybe it's not too
late...having to announce and advertise each new topic-specific list
is a pain as you're noticing now.

Whereas a single tech@ list would have been announced just once, and
then people can invent as many [topics] and [subtopics] as needed, on
the fly.

I am still available to moderate a generic tech@ list if people want
to change their minds ;-)



https://i.imgur.com/6rZ8g8R.jpg



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Re: New inter-project Mailinglist i...@apache.org created

[Rich Bowen]

On 7/5/19 3:06 AM, Christofer Dutz wrote:

Hi all,

our new i...@apache.org<mailto:i...@apache.org> mailing list has been created 
and is now waiting for subscribers :-)

What do you think would be the best way to advertise this?

   1.  Send an email to each pmc in the IoT sector


I would think that announcing this to the dev/user lists would get you a 
broader audience of people interested in what you're doing.


As Bertrand notes, if you build it, they won't come. You'll have to go 
find them. And it's totally worth the effort. Cross-project discussions 
are almost always beneficial to everyone, particularly when you're all 
solving similar problems different ways.



   2.  Send an Announce email over the usual announce@ list
   3.  Send to pmcs@ (Is there such a list/alias)?
   4.  Send to committers@

I think I would avoid 2 as this is more an external communication channel.


Well, sure, but "external" is just community we haven't met yet.


For 1 we would need a list of the IoT projects … I do know some, but by far not 
all and the list on:
https://projects.apache.org/projects.html?category#iot
But that list doesn’t seem to be too comprehensive ;-)

If there’s something like p...@apache.org<mailto:p...@apache.org>, I would 
prefer this but I couldn’t find it …
but I could swear I had used it for TAC stuff before.


Restricting this to the PMCs seems odd. I suspect you want to target all 
dev and users. The committers@ list seems like a good target, for sure, too.



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Re: [EVENT] Add Flink Forward EU 2019 to the ASF event calendar

[Rich Bowen]

On 7/8/19 12:29 PM, Fabian Hueske wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'd like to ask to add "Flink Forward EU 2019" to the ASF event calendar.
Flink Forward will take place 7th to 9th October 2019 in Berlin (two weeks
before ApacheCon EU).

This is the 9th Flink Forward (5th in Europe, 3 in US, 1 in China) and the
last time we got ASF brand approval was for Flink Forward China in December
2018.
Since then, the branding did not change and website [1] was only kept up to
date.

Can you add Flink Forward EU 2019 to the calendar or do we need ASF brand
permission before that?



Yes, I would be glad to add it to the calendar, but, yes, you need the 
OK from brand first.


--Rich

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Re: Help with task: Ensure all Apache TLPs have Wikipedia pages

[Rich Bowen]

There is not currently a way to edit these HelpWanted tickets. Perhaps 
since the project is well underway, we could just delete the ticket?


On 4/23/19 7:49 AM, Swapnil M Mane wrote:

Nice, thanks Dmitriy.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 4:37 PM Dmitriy Pavlov  wrote:


It works fine, thanks,

I've started to fill this doc. For now, I will skip projects that are
managed by the same PMC. E.g. Apache Anakia does not have a separate page,
but it is mentioned in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Velocity



+1



I will also skip attic and incubator projects. Unfortunately, I can not



+1



edit this ticket so we need somehow share this list of project & wikipedia
page correspondence sheet.



Agree, we should find way to add this sheet information in the ticket.
May be we can take help from Nick (creator of the ticket) or infra.



Sincerely,
Dmitriy Pavlov

вт, 23 апр. 2019 г. в 10:39, Swapnil M Mane :


Great Dmitriy, thoughts travels :-)
I have granted you the access, kindly check.


- Best Regards,
Swapnil M Mane,
ofbiz.apache.org



On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 1:01 PM Dmitriy Pavlov 

wrote:



Hi Swapnil M Mane,

I was thinking about absolutely the same approach. I've requested edit
access, could you please grant it?

Sincerely,
Dmitriy Pavlov

вт, 23 апр. 2019 г. в 09:08, Swapnil M Mane :


Hello Rich and team,

As we see, various people are willing to help for this task of

ensuring

all

Apache TLPs have Wikipedia pages [1].
I see, some of the TLPs are having there Wikipedia page in draft

status

(might be some projects don't even have the page).
So, here the approach we can follow to complete this task.

I have created a Google sheet [2] containing the list of all Apache's

top

level projects.
All those contributors who are willing to help us, we can share this

sheet

with them with *edit* permission.
Then they simply have to check, is the Wikipedia page for project

exist,

if

yes put the link of page else put the appropriate comment and mark

row

as

red.
The sheet contain Attic and Incubating project, we can ignore them.

After this we can contact the respective project community (who don't

have

Wikipedia page) to work on Wikipedia page of project.

Please let me know if your thoughts on this.

[1]







https://helpwanted.apache.org/task.html?0b349bee48c7e47a20fb29222b8217fa61b11d31

[2]







https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pBjiBB4ROB7QrIIFMLSbDUMyPjmDCf9xHI1rZnCVKd8/edit?usp=sharing


P.S. Looping in Nick, since I see the task is created by him.


- Best Regards,
Swapnil M Mane,
ofbiz.apache.org



On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 11:10 PM Dmitriy Pavlov 
wrote:


Sorry, I've misread the initial email. I'll double check if there

is

a

missing project in Wikipedia.

Sincerely,
Dmitriy Pavlov

пн, 18 февр. 2019 г. в 20:32, Dmitriy Pavlov :


Hi Rich,

The task is still in the list of help-wanted service here










https://helpwanted.apache.org/task.html?0b349bee48c7e47a20fb29222b8217fa61b11d31


Should I mark it as done?

Sincerely,
Dmitriy Pavlov

пн, 18 февр. 2019 г. в 17:05, Rich Bowen :


Has anyone verified where we are on this task, recently? I think

we

may

already have done this, and, if so, we really should drop this

task

from

the list. Can someone take a moment to verify where we stand on

this?

Perhaps even one of the people who has said they want to help

with

the

task?

Meanwhile, NONE of the people who have volunteered to help with

this

have so much as responded to my followup emails to them. Has

anyone

else

had any followup from any of the volunteers?

--Rich

On 2/16/19 2:50 AM, S M wrote:

I would like to help out with the task listed at

/task.html?0b349bee





تم الإرسال من جهاز Samsung




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Re: Help with task: Ensure all Apache TLPs have Wikipedia pages

[Rich Bowen]

At the risk of being overly bureaucratic, who is going to do this? Cause if
"someone should" chances are no-one will.

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 12:35 AM Swapnil M Mane 
wrote:

> +1 Rich and Dmitriy
>
>
> - Best Regards,
> Swapnil M Mane,
> ofbiz.apache.org
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:07 AM Dmitriy Pavlov  wrote:
>
> > +1, I agree we can remove this too generic ticket because possible
> > contributor may not know what exactly needs to be done.
> >
> > I'd better create a couple of specific tasks to be done for
> > contributing/updating a particular project description.
> >
> > вт, 23 апр. 2019 г. в 17:58, Rich Bowen :
> >
> > > There is not currently a way to edit these HelpWanted tickets. Perhaps
> > > since the project is well underway, we could just delete the ticket?
> > >
> > > On 4/23/19 7:49 AM, Swapnil M Mane wrote:
> > > > Nice, thanks Dmitriy.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 4:37 PM Dmitriy Pavlov 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> It works fine, thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> I've started to fill this doc. For now, I will skip projects that
> are
> > > >> managed by the same PMC. E.g. Apache Anakia does not have a separate
> > > page,
> > > >> but it is mentioned in
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Velocity
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> I will also skip attic and incubator projects. Unfortunately, I can
> > not
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> edit this ticket so we need somehow share this list of project &
> > > wikipedia
> > > >> page correspondence sheet.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > Agree, we should find way to add this sheet information in the
> ticket.
> > > > May be we can take help from Nick (creator of the ticket) or infra.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Sincerely,
> > > >> Dmitriy Pavlov
> > > >>
> > > >> вт, 23 апр. 2019 г. в 10:39, Swapnil M Mane <
> swapnilmm...@apache.org
> > >:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Great Dmitriy, thoughts travels :-)
> > > >>> I have granted you the access, kindly check.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> - Best Regards,
> > > >>> Swapnil M Mane,
> > > >>> ofbiz.apache.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 1:01 PM Dmitriy Pavlov  >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Hi Swapnil M Mane,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I was thinking about absolutely the same approach. I've requested
> > edit
> > > >>>> access, could you please grant it?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Sincerely,
> > > >>>> Dmitriy Pavlov
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> вт, 23 апр. 2019 г. в 09:08, Swapnil M Mane <
> > swapnilmm...@apache.org
> > > >:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Hello Rich and team,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> As we see, various people are willing to help for this task of
> > > >> ensuring
> > > >>>> all
> > > >>>>> Apache TLPs have Wikipedia pages [1].
> > > >>>>> I see, some of the TLPs are having there Wikipedia page in draft
> > > >> status
> > > >>>>> (might be some projects don't even have the page).
> > > >>>>> So, here the approach we can follow to complete this task.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I have created a Google sheet [2] containing the list of all
> > Apache's
> > > >>> top
> > > >>>>> level projects.
> > > >>>>> All those contributors who are willing to help us, we can share
> > this
> > > >>>> sheet
> > > >>>>> with them with *edit* permission.
> > > >>>>> Then they simply have to check, is the Wikipedia page for project
> > > >>> exist,
> > > >>>> if
> > > >>>>>

Re: Blog Post 'How To Become Committer' - feedback needed

[Rich Bowen]

This is really good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to write this.

I expect that Sally would be glad to shepherd this onto the main Apache 
blog. This looks like the kind of article that she tends to be looking for.


On 4/24/19 4:28 AM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote:

Hi Community Developers,

Recently we've translated a blog post based on my recent talk on Apache
Ignite meetup/Moscow:
https://www.gridgain.com/resources/blog/how-become-open-source-committer-and-why-youd-want


I would appreciate if someone from more experienced Apache fellows can
provide some comments to this post (actually, this one is based on previous
feedback from Shane C.).

Would it be possible to re-post this blog in 'success at Apache' series?

Sincerely,
Dmitriy Pavlov



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Fwd: OSCON Nonprofit Application Extended 1 Week

[Rich Bowen]

I have not acknowledged this or responded to it. It was sent to my 
apache.org email address but I'm not sure if it was sent to a wider 
audience.


Is anyone intending to cover OSCon this year, and staff an Apache booth? 
If so, this needs to be done THIS WEEK. And we would need to have 
someone clearly volunteer as event lead for this event.


I will be at OSCON, but am unavailable for the Apache booth, as I will 
be there for work. I will be available for conversations, sponsor 
meetings, whatever, and will of course do my duty at the booth if we 
have one, but will be primarily focused on my work hat.


--Rich


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:OSCON Nonprofit Application Extended 1 Week
Date:   Fri, 19 Apr 2019 12:46:52 -0700
From:   Daniella Guzman 



Hello,

Great news! If you have not yet applied to be part of the non-profit 
pavilion at OSCON there is still time. We have extended the application 
period until April 26th.


For more information on applying click here 
! 



Thank you,
Daniella

*
Daniella Guzman*  |  Sr. Strategic AccountSpecialist
O'Reilly Media, Inc. |  707.827.7120 | oreilly.com 


-- Forwarded message -
From: *Daniella Guzman* mailto:dguz...@oreilly.com>>
Date: Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 12:02 PM
Subject: OSCON Nonprofit Application Opens Today!
To:


Hello,

The open source community has always relied on the passion, intellect, 
and hard work of people who weren't necessarily seeking a profit but 
were driven to improve the world with their efforts. Today, a wide 
variety of mission-driven nonprofit organizations keep this vision of 
open source alive. To recognize these organizations, O'Reilly Media 
hosts a Nonprofit Exhibition at OSCON to provide a setting for 
nonprofits to share their efforts with the broader open source community.


If you'd like to bring your nonprofit to the attention of OSCON 
attendees, we invite you to apply for space in the Nonprofit Exhibition. 
We're looking for organizations that are using open source technologies 
to support a cause, mission, or community goals.

*
*
For more information on applying click here 
! 
Please note that applications close April 19th.


Thank you,
Daniella
*
Daniella Guzman*  |  Sr. Strategic AccountSpecialist
O'Reilly Media, Inc. |  707.827.7120 | oreilly.com 

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Re: ApacheCon NA 2020 dates?

[Rich Bowen]

On 8/30/19 1:18 PM, Anthony Baker wrote:

Hi all,

I have two questions:

1) Have dates and/or location been confirmed for ApacheCon NA 2020?


No. But we are tentatively looking at Mexico City in early November.


2) Is there someone I could reach to for help with coordinating event dates?


Me



I'm a member of the Geode PMC and am trying to ensure non-conflicting
events for ApacheCon NA and the SpringOne Platform conference in 2020.
Many of our users tend to show up at SpringOne Platform and we've found
that hosting a Geode Summit there has been really successful.  That's great
for our community but as a PMC member I want to make sure we're doing our
best to follow the ASF event branding policy and make *both* ApacheCon and
S1P awesome.

Thanks,
Anthony

(full disclosure:  my employer is Pivotal)



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Re: ApacheCon NA 2020 dates?

[Rich Bowen]

Update: Tentative venue availability is the week of Aug 31 - Sep 3. Note 
that this is still not public, and we haven't signed anything. I hope to 
make an actual announcement at ACNA, on Thursday.


On 8/30/19 4:28 PM, Anthony Baker wrote:

Thanks Rich, that helps a lot!  I'll poke the Pivotal folks I know to let
you know once they've announced dates and venue for S1P 2020 (should be in
October this year).

Anthony


On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 12:18 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:




On 8/30/19 1:18 PM, Anthony Baker wrote:

Hi all,

I have two questions:

1) Have dates and/or location been confirmed for ApacheCon NA 2020?


No. But we are tentatively looking at Mexico City in early November.


2) Is there someone I could reach to for help with coordinating event

dates?

Me



I'm a member of the Geode PMC and am trying to ensure non-conflicting
events for ApacheCon NA and the SpringOne Platform conference in 2020.
Many of our users tend to show up at SpringOne Platform and we've found
that hosting a Geode Summit there has been really successful.  That's

great

for our community but as a PMC member I want to make sure we're doing our
best to follow the ASF event branding policy and make *both* ApacheCon

and

S1P awesome.

Thanks,
Anthony

(full disclosure:  my employer is Pivotal)



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Re: "UPCOMING APACHE-RELATED MEETUPS" page has paused function

[Rich Bowen]

Thanks for letting me know. I'll try to fix this once I get home this
weekend.

Shosholoza,
Rich


On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 15:27 Joe Shore  wrote:

> Hey!
>
> Just wanted to let you know that this page
>  >
> on your site appears to have stopped functioning (It's showing events
> August 20th to September 2nd)
>
> Thanks!
> Joe
>
> --
>
> Joe Shore
> Community Associate | Confluent
>
> Follow us: Twitter  | blog
>  | Slack
>  | Meetups
> 
> Find me: LinkedIn  | Twitter
> 
>
> 
> Let me know if you want a big discount!
>

OpenStack Upstream Institute

[Rich Bowen]

There’s at least one company who is using this training material 
internally for their own employees. This is great, but also makes it 
harder to collect success metrics in those cases.


Investigating doing online training in the future.

Working on breaking training into general open source content and 
project specific content so that other communities can reuse the core 
content and build their own around it.




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Re: [Lazy Consensus] Changing the default reporter tool

[Rich Bowen]

If I might make a plug ... two, in fact.

1) The Kibble project, which provides these statistics, is a warm 
welcoming place, if anyone is looking for a way to contribute to an 
exciting project.


2) reporter.a.o lives in the community.apache.org svn repo, and welcomes 
patches.


As both Kibble PMC chair, and a ComDev PMC member, I am often concerned 
by the degree to which many of our project conversations are people 
asking for stuff, and then Daniel doing it. Yes, Daniel does awesome 
work, but bus-factor-1 project make me very, very squidgy. Both for 
sustainability of the project when Daniel burns out, and for the 
misperception that this service is somehow a function of Infra and 
should have an SLA.


So ... all that to say, we really would love to see more people 
tinkering with this code.


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Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education

[Rich Bowen]

On 7/16/19 2:29 PM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote:
> Hi Jim,
> 
> Could you mention events you're referring to?

For the purposes of *THIS* discussion, I think that that's a bit of a
sidetrack.

Suffice it to say that clearer understanding of the *WHY* around the
principles of the Apache Way is necessary, in order that the *WHAT*
doesn't get perceived as meaningless, arbitrary, or dispensible.


> 
> In Apache Training (incubating) Justin started to develop content related
> to the Incubator
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-training/tree/master/content/ApacheWay ,
> so we can consider developing a standalone session related to the Apache
> Way principles. But to understand if training will be helpful I would like
> to know the entire story.
> 
> You can share it with me directly if you want.
> 
> Sincerely
> Dmitriy Pavlov
> 
> вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 20:52, Jim Jagielski :
> 
>> I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a
>> lack of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation (adherence)
>> to The Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused
>> effort w/i the foundation.
>>
>> Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and
>> so the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of sub-cmmt
>> under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the
>> problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and collaboration)? Or
>> basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think
>> having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the
>> effort would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what structure
>> we decide.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas?
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>>
>>
> 

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Re: Apache Roadshow India in 2020?

[Rich Bowen]

I'm very pleased that there's someone who is local to the area. To me, 
this is pretty critical table stakes, so that we don't have someone 
coordinating the event from afar. Thanks for speaking up, Rohit.


On 6/25/19 7:55 AM, Rohit Yadav wrote:

Hi Sharan!

I'm in Gurgaon and can help/volunteer and also represent Apache CloudStack
(cc-ing other CloudStack users/devs in the area who may want to join).
Happy to help if you need help around hotel and conference center in/around
Gurgaon.

Regards.

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 2:52 PM Sharan Foga  wrote:


Hi All

With all the suggestions coming up for locations for potential Roadshows,
the idea of doing a Roadshow in India has been raised again. The suggested
timeframe is Q1 2020 as the weather is good (not too hot, not too cold)
also not too many other conferences are happening around that time. The
potential location is Gurgaon / Gurugram which has good transport links and
seems to be a tech hub. I am working with Swapnil ,who is active on this
list and few others I know from OFBiz who are based in India who have
offered to help with the organisation and management. We are currently
working to put together a proposal.

So as part of an initial step I would like to gauge the feedback from our
community. What do people think? (And also is anyone interested in helping
out ?)

Thanks
Sharan



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Re: Apache Roadshow India in 2020?

[Rich Bowen]

Respectfully, simply stating that a place is a better option isn't going 
to carry much weight without


1) Someone on-site that is volunteering to coordinate the event
2) An actual proposal including venues and budgets

--Rich

On 6/28/19 6:37 AM, ARIJIT DAS wrote:

November December January in Kolkata will be the best option. Kolkata is
the cultural capital of India and rich heritage with scientific and
technological best organisations. Gurgaon or Gurugram is gram i.e. village
it will take another 10 years to become metro...for roadshows you will
never get madding crowd of Kolkata at anywhere else.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 3:50 PM, Venkat Ramakrishnan <
venkat.archit...@gmail.com> wrote:


Bangalore would be a better location.

Venkatasubramaniam (Venkat) Ramakrishnan
Software Technologist Consultant
Business Profitability Consulting through Machine Learning & Data Analytics
Retail and E-commerce

Mobile: +91-9620159347
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/venkatramakrishnan

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019, 14:52 Sharan Foga,  wrote:


Hi All

With all the suggestions coming up for locations for potential Roadshows,
the idea of doing a Roadshow in India has been raised again. The

suggested

timeframe is Q1 2020 as the weather is good (not too hot, not too cold)
also not too many other conferences are happening around that time. The
potential location is Gurgaon / Gurugram which has good transport links

and

seems to be a tech hub. I am working with Swapnil ,who is active on this
list and few others I know from OFBiz who are based in India who have
offered to help with the organisation and management. We are currently
working to put together a proposal.

So as part of an initial step I would like to gauge the feedback from our
community. What do people think? (And also is anyone interested in

helping

out ?)

Thanks
Sharan



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ApacheCon North America 2020, project participation

[Rich Bowen]

Hi, folks,

(Note: You're receiving this email because you're on the dev@ list for
one or more Apache Software Foundation projects.)

For ApacheCon North America 2019, we asked projects to participate in
the creation of project/topic specific tracks. This was very successful,
with about 15 projects stepping up to curate the content for their
track/summit/event.

We need to know if you're going to do the same for 2020. This informs
how large a venue we book for the event, how long the event runs, and
many other considerations.

If you intend to participate again in 2020, we need to hear from you on
the plann...@apachecon.com mailing list. This is not a firm commitment,
but we need to know if you're, say, 75% confident that you'll be
participating.

And, no, we do not have any details at all, but assume that it will be
in roughly the same calendar space as this year's event, ie, somewhere
in the August-October timeframe.

Thanks.

-- 
Rich Bowen
VP Conferences
The Apache Software Foundation
@apachecon

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Re: ASF at Devnexus in Atlanta

[Rich Bowen]

Done

On 11/11/19 8:40 AM, Vincent Mayers wrote:

Sure thing :)

Hey ASF community I sent a tweet out from @devnexus about this. Can I get an RT 
from y’all?


Cheers
Vincent

@vincentmayers


On Nov 8, 2019, at 11:31 PM, Daniel Ruggeri  wrote:



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ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Rich Bowen]

I've made two posts on this list in the past couple of days regarding 
the rising ACL effort and my concerns about it.


I *desperately* want this kind of grass-roots enthusiast community 
effort. I do NOT want to kill it. But I've learned from Fedora user 
groups that allowing any random stranger to start up a group, using our 
Trademarks, to promote whatever message comes into their head, is 
*going* to bite us in the butt, sooner rather than later.


This is *NOT* about the Indore group and their recent event. Rather it's 
about the future. The groups currently out there are full of experienced 
Apache people. All well and good. The second wave will be full of people 
wanting to promote their business, or their personal brand, using our 
name, and spreading misinformation about Apache under our official banner.


We *cannot* allow this to happen. To do so would be a dereliction of our 
duty as a PMC. We must plan for the bad actors, even while enabling the 
good actors.


I'm not entirely sure what I'm proposing, but I think that requiring, at 
this stage, at least one Member to be involved in the creation and 
mentoring of a new group, is a reasonable path.


A brief discussion of these issues has occurred on the 
priv...@community.apache.org mailing list, where I was rightfully called 
out for having the conversation in private rather than in public. So, 
moving the conversation here, as is appropriate.


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Re: Apache Local Community (ALC) as a ComDev Initiative

[Rich Bowen]

While I'm excited to see this kind of local ambassador program springing 
up, I want to be sure that we are not having people use the Apache name 
to promote messages that are not *our* message.


Having local groups of enthusiasts having periodic meetings is great. 
What I'm asking is what assurances we want to have in place that the 
messaging at these events is accurate?


In the past, when we have had an official (for whatever value of 
"official" we want to go with) Apache-sponsored thing, we require a 
member to be involved, so that we know that the message is from someone 
who actually knows what the message is. What I'm seeing here is a 
free-form "create a group by asking nicely" without any member, or even 
committer involved. And the events, and their messaging, are then being 
promoted on an .apache.org website, which means that they are an 
official statement of the Foundation.


I'm feeling a little weird about that.

I agree with Isaac, in that we don't want to set up a lengthy list of 
rules for who and how and what, I think that we need to be cautious 
about handing out our name, and our reputation, to just anybody that 
asks for it. Indeed, it's really kind of critical that we don't. Our 
name, and our reputation, are really the only things that we have, and 
we simply cannot have unaffiliated groups using our name to promote 
messages that are not Approved By Apache.


Please note that I'm not saying that this has happened thus far. I don't 
know that, having not attended any of these events. But we have a long 
history of people using our name to promote their own agendas, and we 
*must* not allow that.



On 11/19/19 1:24 PM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi All

Thanks Swapnil for the links about the ALC and I have re-read through the 
threads. I remembered sensing some push back on the proposed organisational 
hierarchy and see that has now been removed. Following on from that there was 
the comment of ALC  being managed either within ComDev or VP Conferences.

I dont think this fits with Conferences as it is more like a local meetup type 
event, which means outreach, which to me means ComDev.

So now we need to look at how to manage the integration of the ALC initiative. 
Based on Sally's feedback that means announcing and promoting the initiative to 
a wider audience. I can see some key actions already

-   announce the ALC as an initiative (Swapnil we can probably create this from 
your emails about it. Can you draft something? )
- promote the next event (include it on the Events calendar, tweet via 
@ApacheCommunity and include a reminder on ComDev)
-plan for future events (ALC Indore seems to be having events every 1 - 2 
months, so let's put them on the calendar and prepare for it.)
-   funding (I am not sure if ALC is getting any funding as part of ASF small 
events, or it is being covered from a third party.? BTW ComDev also has a 
budget that could be used to help with stickers, swag etc)
-   grow the ALC community (several people said they were interested in setting 
up other ALCs but so far none have. This could be because of the lack of 
announcement of the initiative - so lets focus on that first)

I'm happy to get feedback and comments on this so please feel free to respond 
if you have any ideas or suggestions.

Thanks
Sharan


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Re: old apachecon photos

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/3/19 12:00 PM, Danny Angus wrote:

Hi,
I have a bunch of old apachecon photos, who owns photos.apachecon so
that I can make them available?


Me.

You can register - https://photos.apachecon.com/register.php - and 
upload your photos, and then I can accept them and add them to the 
appropriate album.


--Rich

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Re: [ALC] ALC Indore is set for the next event 'Open Source and ASF Awareness'

[Rich Bowen]

On 11/26/19 8:10 AM, Priya Sharma wrote:

Hello All,


...

Here are highlights from the event -

-- 50+ Students participated in the event and attended the session.
-- The duration of the session was 1 hour 30 minutes including the
interaction with the audience.
-- The response from students was overwhelming for us, they asked some
surprisingly amazing questions to us, like
 # How can I earn money by making my code open source?
 # Who is the CEO of Apache?
 # If I take an open-source project, customize it, and sell it to
my friend, can he also sell my customized project?
 # How can I contribute to Apache?
 # How much do you earn by taking these sessions? ;-) :D
 # If a big organization, takes my open source project and earn
money from it, then will it be my loss?
 # any many more...


I'm fascinated that such an overwhelming majority of the questions are 
about money, and I'd be curious to know what kind of answers were given 
to this.


Looking at the list of members of this ALC - 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ALC+Indore - I am 
pretty confident that they got the right answers, since the list is 
heavy on people with experience at Apache.


But looking out longer term, I'm concerned, as I mentioned in the other 
thread, that we are authorizing people to speak on our behalf, by virtue 
of nothing more than sending an email to this list with "request to 
setup ALC Foxtrot Arkansas". What vetting do we have in place before we 
delegate our name to people who are neither members nor committers?


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Re: ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/13/19 12:18 AM, Alex Harui wrote:

I've only been partially following, and I hear and respect the desire for "quality 
control", but IMO, people talk about Apache all of the time in other events.  For 
example, when Flex joined the incubator in January 2012, there was a Flex user conference 
shortly after in April 2012.  I spoke there about the transition from Adobe to Apache and 
laid out what I knew about Apache at the time.  I posted slides beforehand, but I'm not 
sure our Mentors looked them over carefully.  We were a podling, so no official PMC 
members and no Mentors were in attendance.  IIRC, I also practiced this presentation at a 
small Meetup before the conference.  I'll bet this happens at lots of conferences for 
podlings.  I included a disclaimer that I wasn't speaking on behalf of Apache, just 
passing on what I've learned so far.

Hence, my gentle suggestions that disclaiming is better than too much oversight 
on these community meetings, otherwise ALC is going to be under a heavier 
burden than other community outreach.  If that's because you want to make ALC 
the official way to learn about Apache, roughly as formal as the Incubator, ok, 
then fine, but that might cause other volunteers to shy away or find a path of 
less overhead by skipping the ALC title and buying a case of beer instead.


I have no objection to, as you say, people giving talks about Apache, 
with no "quality control."


I feel, however, that there's a world of difference between that, and us 
bestowing an *official title* on a group with the Apache name and 
trademarks. As it happens, so does our Trademarks team, and our 
Marketing team.


So, yeah, let many flowers bloom, and hundreds or thousands of local 
user groups giving talks about Apache, and Apache projects. I have no 
objection whatsoever. But the moment we give them official recognition, 
and list them on an .apache.org website, everything changes. People's 
perspective of the group changes. And our legal obligations change, 
because we have officially recognized the group.


--Rich



On 12/12/19, 2:10 PM, "Craig Russell"  wrote:

 Hi Swapnil,
 
 I realize I'm coming late to this discussion but would like to offer a small bit of feedback.
 
 Like others, I think we need to try to get qualified people running local groups. One Member plus two PMC members gives us three, which is a magic number for decision-making here. Even if they don't attend all meetings, it's at least some oversight from folks who have earned merit.
 
 Random talks that present how we do things here, by people we don't know, makes me nervous. We might consider requiring presentations to be posted publicly some time (one week?) before the meeting which would allow for at least some oversight.
 
 And there are plenty of such presentations publicly available and some can be edited to suit (e.g. see the Training podling for examples of presentations on The Apache Way).
 
 I endorse the concept and look forward to a proposal.
 
 Craig
 
 > On Dec 11, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Swapnil M Mane  wrote:

 >
 > Thank you so much, everyone, for your kind and valuable inputs.
 > As a next step, we will work on drafting the ALC proposal to the board.
 >
 >
 > - Best regards,
 > Swapnil M Mane,
 > 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.orgdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3ac2d86ccbf54019b11c08d77f500aba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637117854065911699sdata=NQimXPkKRHJo%2FpQ9yYjcnqVPJuVHumRLi6GYPVyQICE%3Dreserved=0
 >
 > On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 12:20 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> On 12/6/19 4:42 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
 >>> One potential (if not solution -- but at least a line of thought) 
could be
 >>> to bring these efforts into the fold officially by requiring them to be
 >>> official sub-projects of ComDev PMC. Then we can have a policy 
requiring
 >>> a certain governance oversight over those sub-projects (like requiring
 >>> a certain # of PMC/members, etc.).
 >>
 >> This just feels like too much structure/bureaucracy to me. We want just
 >> enough oversight, but we don't want to kill it with too much, either.
 >>
 >> If, at some later date, this grows to the point where it seems to *need*
 >> this much oversight, then, great, we take that step then.
 >>
 >> Small, reversible steps.
 >>
 >> --
 >> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com
 >> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frcbowen.com%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3ac2d86ccbf54019b11c08d77f500aba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637117854065911699sdata=vfH

Re: ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Rich Bowen]

I wonder if we have discussed this into the ground sufficiently to come 
up with a proposal that we can vote on and report to the board on? I 
think there's been great discussion, and that we have consensus on a 
number of things. And there are several local groups waiting for 
answers, as well as some that appear to have taken silence as endorsement.


On 12/4/19 3:15 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
I've made two posts on this list in the past couple of days regarding 
the rising ACL effort and my concerns about it.


I *desperately* want this kind of grass-roots enthusiast community 
effort. I do NOT want to kill it. But I've learned from Fedora user 
groups that allowing any random stranger to start up a group, using our 
Trademarks, to promote whatever message comes into their head, is 
*going* to bite us in the butt, sooner rather than later.


This is *NOT* about the Indore group and their recent event. Rather it's 
about the future. The groups currently out there are full of experienced 
Apache people. All well and good. The second wave will be full of people 
wanting to promote their business, or their personal brand, using our 
name, and spreading misinformation about Apache under our official banner.


We *cannot* allow this to happen. To do so would be a dereliction of our 
duty as a PMC. We must plan for the bad actors, even while enabling the 
good actors.


I'm not entirely sure what I'm proposing, but I think that requiring, at 
this stage, at least one Member to be involved in the creation and 
mentoring of a new group, is a reasonable path.


A brief discussion of these issues has occurred on the 
priv...@community.apache.org mailing list, where I was rightfully called 
out for having the conversation in private rather than in public. So, 
moving the conversation here, as is appropriate.




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Re: ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/6/19 4:42 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:

One potential (if not solution -- but at least a line of thought) could be
to bring these efforts into the fold officially by requiring them to be
official sub-projects of ComDev PMC. Then we can have a policy requiring
a certain governance oversight over those sub-projects (like requiring
a certain # of PMC/members, etc.).


This just feels like too much structure/bureaucracy to me. We want just 
enough oversight, but we don't want to kill it with too much, either.


If, at some later date, this grows to the point where it seems to *need* 
this much oversight, then, great, we take that step then.


Small, reversible steps.

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Re: ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/5/19 12:10 PM, Alex Harui wrote:

 From the peanut gallery:  IMO, without a formal training/certification program, what 
even an ASF Member understands about the Apache Way, not to mention committers who are 
not members, is up for grabs.  It is essentially the party game "telephone" 
where one person says something to another person who tries to pass it on.

Also, it is humans speaking and humans listening, so misspeaking and 
misunderstanding is guaranteed.

Seems like a better approach is along the lines of what the Events page Shane 
linked to contains.  It contains a disclaimer for events.  I thought we were 
supposed to also include a disclaimer in slide decks, but I couldn't find a 
reference to that.

IOW, if you require a disclaimer that people speaking about Apache are just 
enthusiastic volunteers and not official spokespeople, and have them state how 
long they've been with involved at Apache as contributor/committer/member, then 
these community groups are the same as anyone else talking about the good 
things at Apache at some potluck dinner with friends.  It doesn't have to be 
100% accurate, it just has to get the word out in a reasonable fashion.

And then you will get good at fixing common misunderstandings and create a FAQ of common 
misunderstandings to guide future presentations.  "Oh, well that person is 
relatively new to the ASF and didn't quite grok that yet.   The real story is"

IMO, better to plan for error recovery than to attempt perfection in the 
message.


https://media.tenor.com/images/d85d9f198d6b18d52267ef60314e7220/tenor.gif

(Why not both?!)

Yes, you are right. But there are limits to each approach. Having a 
member, or two PMC members, has have been variously suggested, mitigates 
the likelihood that we'll in error recovery mode continuously.


I can look at the membership of the Indore ALC, for example, or the 
proposed Beijing one, and know with a high degree of certainty that 
they're not spreading misinformation.


I want that same degree of certainty every time we hand out the Apache 
name to anyone and ask them to go spread the message. That's all I'm 
asking for here - a clear "you must be this tall to ride" before we 
approve any more of these proposed ALCs.


This must be mixed with flexibility and mentorship for those parts of 
there world where there are no local members/PMC members/committers, 
since any proposed ALC from those regions represent a clear opportunity 
to expand our footprint into new places.


This is also an obvious opportunity to coordinate with the Training 
project (incubating) to seed these ALCs with starter 
materials/presentations/FAQs. Yay inter-PMC cooperation.




On 12/5/19, 7:53 AM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:

 
 
 > On Dec 5, 2019, at 3:52 AM, Mark Thomas  wrote:

 >
 > Picking up on one point
 >
 > On 05/12/2019 05:31, Swapnil M Mane wrote:
 >
 >> -- To form an ALC, there should be at least 2 committers or 1 ASF 
member.
 >
 > I don't agree with this. I don't think this is acceptable. The bar for
 > committership is too low to be used as a test for "Understands the
 > Apache Way".
 
 Maybe 2 PMC members...?



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Re: ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Rich Bowen]

 we prepared. Here are these rules/guidelines.

-- There will be a single ALC chapter per town/city.

-- The ALC members should follow the Apache code of conduct,
https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html

-- It’s strictly prohibited to use ALC Chapter for profit or promoting
any company or personal agenda.

-- If any ALC Chapter is inactive for 3 months, it will be dissolved
after communication with members of that ALC chapter because we are
having strictly one ALC chapter in a town/city.

-- The ALC Chapter shares the status report (e.g. ALC Indore reports -
https://s.apache.org/alc-indore-reports) to ComDev in every three
months.
The report includes details on the activities performed by ALC Chapter
and it's impact.
Here is the index page for reports from each ALC
https://s.apache.org/alc-reports
And the report prepared by ALC Indore for their
August to October 2019 activities is
https://s.apache.org/alc-indore-report-aug-oct-2019

-- Each Chapter should follow ALC Guideline (as mentioned, need your
help in reviewing it) https://s.apache.org/alc-guidelines to execute
any event.


I don't have strong opinions beyond "fewer rules is better". Whatever we 
come up with here, we should at least mention in whatever we send to the 
board.




-- Also as @Shane mentioned, we can also use some of the concepts and
rationale mentioned at
https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events
(Below is the statement from our Event Branding Policy we have already
included as suggested by from Joan previously)
===
The use of Apache marks in any events run by third parties must be
approved by VP, Brand Management or the VP of the relevant Apache
project
===
Shane, this point was raised by Joan Touzet in September
https://s.apache.org/95wu0 , so we had a discussion on this and
followed this process and included it in
https://s.apache.org/alc-guidelines
As you said, if needed we can add more points from
https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events


I feel very proud to be the part of the Apache family and in the past 6
years every day, the ASF people inspired me to do better. And the
great things we are doing together surprise me regularly.
Thank you much for your love and support!

Please feel free to share your comments and thoughts.

[1] https://s.apache.org/alc
[2] https://s.apache.org/alc-indore
[3] https://developers.google.com/programs/community/gdg/
[4] https://developers.facebook.com/developercircles/


Best regards,
Swapnil M Mane,
www.apache.org


On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:53 AM David Nalley  wrote:


On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:15 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:


I've made two posts on this list in the past couple of days regarding
the rising ACL effort and my concerns about it.

I *desperately* want this kind of grass-roots enthusiast community
effort. I do NOT want to kill it. But I've learned from Fedora user
groups that allowing any random stranger to start up a group, using our
Trademarks, to promote whatever message comes into their head, is
*going* to bite us in the butt, sooner rather than later.



I haven't been involved with Fedora in a long while, but there were in
early days a real struggle for how to control messaging and who could
speak for Fedora, and how events could be handled, etc. Did the
community own it or did Red Hat?

Fedora had (at least back then) a relatively scalable and
self-policing group called the "Ambassadors" that leveraged messaging
and collateral provided by the Fedora Marketing Project to talk about
Fedora in  a unified fashion. There were requirements about prior
activity and some barrier to entry to become an Ambassador, but it
belonging to that group seems somewhat analogous to membership at the
ASF (you had to have been involved in some other aspect of Fedora, you
had to demonstrate some knowledge of Fedora's principles, etc)

So perhaps being 'sponsored' or 'championed' by a member is the
threshold for running an event.  Any problems that arise can be
policed from there because we know there's a member we can talk to.

YMMV - I have no idea the current state of the Ambassador program at
Fedora and whether it's considered a success of failure.

--David

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Re: ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/4/19 5:56 PM, Issac Goldstand wrote:


On Dec 4, 2019 22:15, Rich Bowen  wrote:


    . But I've learned from Fedora user
    groups that allowing any random stranger to start up a group, using our
    Trademarks, to promote whatever message comes into their head, is
    *going* to bite us in the butt, sooner rather than later.

Are these from groups that are managed/overseen by RedHat? Can you share 
more information about what you've learned the hard way? Because maybe 
the way I suggest below is objectively wrong, and if so I'd rather 
understand the faulty reasoning on my part sooner, rather than later...


I'm reluctant to tell stories on a public list, particularly when almost 
all of the stories are third-hand. But the lesson learned is that when 
you give someone a title, there's a chance that they will take it as a 
fiefdom - a little kingdom where they rule, call the shots, and don't 
have to answer to anyone else.




I've mentioned before that my standpoint is that it's impossible to 
properly police every fan driven event out there, and I seem to recall 
that use of a trademark by fans in a manner that isn't making profits is 
generally considered acceptable use.  Is it not therefore a good-enoungh 
way to start by allowing (CTR instead of RTC as it were)?


Absolutely. We don't even *want* to police every fan event. And we want 
a LOT of fan events. The nuance is the moment we give our Official Seal 
Of Approval to a group/event/organization, then we are implicitly 
approving their message, and that's where we introduce audience confusion.





    This is *NOT* about the Indore group and their recent event. Rather
    it's
    about the future. The groups currently out there are full of
    experienced
    Apache people. All well and good. The second wave will be full of
    people
    wanting to promote their business, or their personal brand, using our
    name, and spreading misinformation about Apache under our official
    banner.

Once there is enough traction in the user groups that we can see a clear 
difference between user (fan) groups that are promoting Apache vs groups 
that are using the name to promote themselves, we could go with the 
carrot and stick. The carrot is recognition and support by the ASF for 
the good players, and the stick is trademark abuse complaints and 
threats of legal action to those that don't.


Or even just the stick.

Because the carrot means having to make rules. And rules make life 
harder for volunteers. Pulling off a successful meetup/event and 
maintaining a successful community is hard enough without rules. 
Sometimes rules are unavoidable, and so be it, but let's keep the 
barrier of entry as low as possible for the amazing folks who are trying 
to raise positive awareness of what we do here.



    We *cannot* allow this to happen. To do so would be a dereliction of
    our
    duty as a PMC. We must plan for the bad actors, even while enabling the
    good actors.

Can we really expect to catch all the bad actors, long term? Especially 
since anyone can go to meetup.com, register The Official Apache Software 
Foundation Meetup of Somecity, Somecountry, tack on the feather logo, 
and run with it with us none the wiser... Yes, we'd react swiftly and 
forcefully once we *did* catch on, but we can't stop it from happening. 
We can't monitor everything.


No, we cannot expect to catch them all. But if, as I say above, give any 
group our Official Seal Of Approval, and give them space on OUR website, 
we are *explicitly* endorsing whatever they say. That's the line that 
cannot be crossed.




We've gone 20 years without real traction in local small events that we 
are happy with. Suddenly in the past week I'm seeing more interest than 
we've had in years. Yes, we should have a plan for bad actors, but not 
at the cost of stifling potentially good ones.


+1


    I'm not entirely sure what I'm proposing, but I think that
    requiring, at
    this stage, at least one Member to be involved in the creation and
    mentoring of a new group, is a reasonable path.

Just remember that it will be only mentoring.

Not every geographic location has a member (or even PMC member) that can 
supervise the content actually delivered there. Unlike the incubator 
where the mentors see everything happening in-code and on-list, for 
offline events in different languages and locations, the level of 
supervision needed to truly monitor the group is simply not scalable.


I'd be willing to be such a mentor - given the above caveats - if comdev 
seems it helpful.


I would think that geographically (or at least time-zone) close mentors 
would be preferred, but, yes, failing that, we definitely need others to 
step in.


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Re: ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/6/19 12:19 PM, Austin Bennett wrote:

The bits on mentorship make some sense, although I am confused.  If about
who is allowed/endorsed to speak on behalf of the ASF, then:

* Should only speakers at events be of a condoned status (how are they
vetted)?


No, I think that's overkill. Having someone involved in the running of 
the event, selecting content, makes it less likely that you'd run 
content that's "off message" but of course doesn't eliminate it. But it 
means that someone is involved who can stand up and say "that's not how 
it is"



or:
* Would a required minimum number of mentors (PMC/Foundation members) be
required in attendance, to be able to correct mis-messages?


Yeah, I think that's where we'd want it.


or more extreme:
* Should every piece of content be recorded and reviewed, and if
insufficient then the group should be discredited (that is extreme and
unlikely, but I think you see the example).


While we'd *like* to have all content recorded, I don't think that's 
going to be a requirement.




^ The first two perhaps are things that should then also be included in the
report of an event.

Otherwise, it seems without the above invites much more bureaucracy without
actually doing much to solve/prevent the problem that seems to concern
people?


Right. Like I said early on, I don't want to do things that will kill 
this amazing new surge of desire to do local events/groups/gatherings. 
Just to be sure that they are supervised by someone who knows when it's 
gone off the rails.


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Re: Apache Local Community (ALC) as a ComDev Initiative

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/6/19 1:15 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:

There should not be a discussion on a prepare list. Please bring that 
discussion here. This is a core part of the Apache Way.


The discussion is now actively ongoing, on this list. And Swapnil (and 
others) are participating in that thread. The private thread has ceased, 
and almost everything that was said there has now been repeated here, in 
public.


I started the private thread, and I have apologized for doing so.

We do, indeed, have a pattern of, as Greg recently said, retreating to 
the private list to avoid controversy. The reminders are always needed, 
and appreciated.





From: Swapnil M Mane 
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 12:06:31 AM
To: dev 
Cc: Sharan Foga 
Subject: Re: Apache Local Community (ALC) as a ComDev Initiative

Thank you so much Issac and Rich for sharing your kind thoughts.
I have read your every input minutely and started a discussion on the
private ComDev list, will keep you posted.

Thanks again!

Best regards,
Swapnil M Mane,
www.apache.org<http://www.apache.org>

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 12:14 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:


While I'm excited to see this kind of local ambassador program springing
up, I want to be sure that we are not having people use the Apache name
to promote messages that are not *our* message.

Having local groups of enthusiasts having periodic meetings is great.
What I'm asking is what assurances we want to have in place that the
messaging at these events is accurate?

In the past, when we have had an official (for whatever value of
"official" we want to go with) Apache-sponsored thing, we require a
member to be involved, so that we know that the message is from someone
who actually knows what the message is. What I'm seeing here is a
free-form "create a group by asking nicely" without any member, or even
committer involved. And the events, and their messaging, are then being
promoted on an .apache.org website, which means that they are an
official statement of the Foundation.

I'm feeling a little weird about that.

I agree with Isaac, in that we don't want to set up a lengthy list of
rules for who and how and what, I think that we need to be cautious
about handing out our name, and our reputation, to just anybody that
asks for it. Indeed, it's really kind of critical that we don't. Our
name, and our reputation, are really the only things that we have, and
we simply cannot have unaffiliated groups using our name to promote
messages that are not Approved By Apache.

Please note that I'm not saying that this has happened thus far. I don't
know that, having not attended any of these events. But we have a long
history of people using our name to promote their own agendas, and we
*must* not allow that.


On 11/19/19 1:24 PM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi All

Thanks Swapnil for the links about the ALC and I have re-read through the 
threads. I remembered sensing some push back on the proposed organisational 
hierarchy and see that has now been removed. Following on from that there was 
the comment of ALC  being managed either within ComDev or VP Conferences.

I dont think this fits with Conferences as it is more like a local meetup type 
event, which means outreach, which to me means ComDev.

So now we need to look at how to manage the integration of the ALC initiative. 
Based on Sally's feedback that means announcing and promoting the initiative to 
a wider audience. I can see some key actions already

-   announce the ALC as an initiative (Swapnil we can probably create this from 
your emails about it. Can you draft something? )
- promote the next event (include it on the Events calendar, tweet via 
@ApacheCommunity and include a reminder on ComDev)
-plan for future events (ALC Indore seems to be having events every 1 - 2 
months, so let's put them on the calendar and prepare for it.)
-   funding (I am not sure if ALC is getting any funding as part of ASF small 
events, or it is being covered from a third party.? BTW ComDev also has a 
budget that could be used to help with stickers, swag etc)
-   grow the ALC community (several people said they were interested in setting 
up other ALCs but so far none have. This could be because of the lack of 
announcement of the initiative - so lets focus on that first)

I'm happy to get feedback and comments on this so please feel free to respond 
if you have any ideas or suggestions.

Thanks
Sharan


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Re: ASF at Devnexus in Atlanta

[Rich Bowen]

Thank you for your generous offer. I'm forwarding this note to our 
Community Development mailing list. I am not personally able to attend 
that event, and in order to have a booth there we'd need to have someone 
(preferably more than one) step up to actually be there to staff it. 
Hopefully someone on this list will be available.


--Rich

On 10/28/19 3:44 PM, Vincent Mayers wrote:

Hi, Rich, I hope you are well?

I run the Atlanta Java Users Group (AJUG) http://ajug.org AJUG is, and 
via the annual community developer conference that we run 
http://devnexus.com <http://devnexus.com/> committed to promoting Open 
Source values. Devnexus is the largest Java ecosystem (languages, 
platforms, frameworks, tools) in the USA


We support a number of OSS initiatives like the OSI, AdoptOpenJDK, and 
we would like to offer the ASF a booth space (silver level sponsorship) 
at the Devnexus conference, March 20-21 
<http://airmail.calendar/2020-03-20%2012:00:00%20EDT> 2020 in Atlanta. 
The attached sponsor deck outlines the silver sponsorship as well as 
gives background to the event and attendee demographics.


Would you like to be involved?

Cheers
Vincent
@vincentmayers


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Re: ASF at Devnexus in Atlanta

[Rich Bowen]

On 10/29/19 3:18 PM, David Nalley wrote:

This is a 2 hour drive from my house, so provided ComDev doesn't mind
a non-ComDev-er participating, I'm happy to show up.


There's no requirement that participants be ComDev PMC members. Although 
there's always the risk that if you do this more than once someone will 
nominate you.



On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:05 AM Bob Paulin  wrote:


I'd be willing to help with this as well.  I'll be speaking there so
just let me know how I can be of help.  Would be great to have the ASF
represented at this conference.

- Bob

On 10/29/2019 7:42 AM, Daniel Ruggeri wrote:

I talked with Pratik about this at ACNA. If I can find cheap travel and 
lodging, I'm *absolutely* willing to take lead on this from The ASF side.

I will check to see what's available around this time.




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Re: What license are the ICLA and CCLA available under?

[Rich Bowen]

On 2/25/20 10:25 AM, David Nalley wrote:

Our website footers proclaim content contained there are licensed under ALv2


When I asked legal about this (this was *years* ago, so may no longer be 
the current version) the opinion was that the ALv2 really can't be 
applied to prose.


We had a similar question about the httpd documentation (and other 
projects, presumably) which was never really resolved to my 
satisfaction, either.


Perhaps opinions have changed on this since then.


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:02 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:


FWIW, I asked this question years ago, and never got a clear answer. I
think they are HJTI (http://drbacchus.com/hjti) but the real answer is
that they do not have a license specified. That said, a LOT of
organizations have taken them and changed a few words, and we're
completely ok with that.

It's possible that our legal folks have a more rigorous answer.

On 2/25/20 6:32 AM, Christofer Dutz wrote:

Hi all,

I know this is a strange question, but what license are our ICLA and CCLA texts 
available under?
I am asking because I’m involved in a new Open-Source project which is 
licensing it’s stuff under the Apache 2.0 license. The project is organized 
under a different freshly founded foundation. I suggested we put in place a 
system with ICLAs and CCLAs and thought the Apache ones would work nicely … 
unfortunately they don’t have License headers ;-)

Are our documents under Apache 2.0 License too?

Chris



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Re: What license are the ICLA and CCLA available under?

[Rich Bowen]

On 2/25/20 10:12 AM, Lars Francke wrote:

This is a bit of a coincidence as I looked into this just today as well.

The CNCF is one of the organizations that seems to have taken the Apache
CLA: <
https://github.com/cncf/cla/pull/3/files#diff-04c6e90faac2675aa89e2176d2eec7d8



Yeah, OpenStack did also - although they later abandoned it.

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Re: Airflow Summit to be added to upcoming events

[Rich Bowen]

Thanks. It's been added to the events calendar.

On 2/22/20 2:00 PM, Jarek Potiuk wrote:

I am happy to announce - on behalf of the team of organizers -  that Airflow 
community organizes the first ever Airflow Summit Bay Area 2020!

We'd love to see it added to the list of the upcoming Apache events here: 
https://events.apache.org/event/index.html

It is going to happen in Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, 
3rd-5th of June. We targed ~400 attendees, 4 keynotes and 24 talks in three 
parallel tracks.

The website is available already : https://airflowsummit.org/ and we have the 
CFP open - https://pretalx.com/orga/event/apache-airflow-summit-bay-area-2020/

Is there anything special that we have to do to be added to the list? We've 
already contacted the
VP Brand of ASF to make sure we are following all the guidelines properly.

J.


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Re: [VOTE] Move community.a.o site from CMS/SVN to Hugo/Git

[Rich Bowen]

On 2/22/20 6:11 AM, Roy Lenferink wrote:

Hi all,

After this week's proposal [1] I'd like to start a formal vote on moving over 
community.a.o from the
current Apache CMS/SVN to Hugo/Git.

Involved steps:
- Create a comdev-site gitbox repository which will be synced with the current 
comdev-site repo on
GitHub.
- Rename 'trunk' to 'master' and set 'master' as default branch (git repo)
- Create a Jenkins job which generates the actual site to the 'asf-site' branch
- Move serving of community.a.o from svn to git
- Remove 'community' from the CMS
- Add a MOVED_TO_GIT file to the svn repo making clear the the directory 
contents have moved
to git.

Please vote:
[ ] +1 for moving over from the CMS/svn to Hugo/git.
[ ] -1 for not moving over, in this case please explain why


+1

I am not a fan of git, but am not going to get in the way of people who 
are doing (have already done) the work.


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Re: What license are the ICLA and CCLA available under?

[Rich Bowen]

FWIW, I asked this question years ago, and never got a clear answer. I 
think they are HJTI (http://drbacchus.com/hjti) but the real answer is 
that they do not have a license specified. That said, a LOT of 
organizations have taken them and changed a few words, and we're 
completely ok with that.


It's possible that our legal folks have a more rigorous answer.

On 2/25/20 6:32 AM, Christofer Dutz wrote:

Hi all,

I know this is a strange question, but what license are our ICLA and CCLA texts 
available under?
I am asking because I’m involved in a new Open-Source project which is 
licensing it’s stuff under the Apache 2.0 license. The project is organized 
under a different freshly founded foundation. I suggested we put in place a 
system with ICLAs and CCLAs and thought the Apache ones would work nicely … 
unfortunately they don’t have License headers ;-)

Are our documents under Apache 2.0 License too?

Chris



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Re: Strange meetup dates

[Rich Bowen]

Yeah, sorry, that page is no longer maintained. I'll remove it from the 
site right away.


On 2/7/20 9:25 AM, Randy Abernethy wrote:

Hey All,

There seems to be an issue here:
https://events.apache.org/event/meetups.html
It say meetups in next 2 weeks but it shows Aug 20 through Sept.

Best,
Randy



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SFK - Software Freedom Kosovo

[Rich Bowen]

I was approached by someone at FOSDEM from the Software Freedom Kosovo 
event. (I got a business card, but not a name, as the card is for the 
event, not for the individual. Oops.)


Anyways, the event is 17-19 April 2020 in Prishtina

sfk.flossk.org

He just wanted to ensure that it's on our radar, in case someone wants 
to represent us there, we have an invitation, like every year. (I do not 
plan to attend myself, although I suppose that could change if the 
CentOS community wants a presence there.)


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Re: Move community.a.o site from CMS/SVN to Hugo/Git

[Rich Bowen]

I would like to hear more about Hugo, since it's not one that I've heard 
of before.


There are a zillion different content frameworks out there, and I have 
no preference for any of them except that the underlying file format is 
standard-ish. Markdown, or something similar that can be easily 
converted to the next framework-du-jour when Hugo is no longer the 
latest hotness.


I would also strenuously encourage you to include Infra in any such 
discussion, before we forge our own new path, while Infra is already 
looking at a CMS replacement.


On 2/18/20 2:07 PM, Roy Lenferink wrote:

Hi fellow comdev-ers,

The e-mail from a few days ago asking to change the year from 2018 -> 2020 
triggered me and I
thought how this could be improved. Also, an 'Edit this page' button will 
already help people to
contribute changes to the current website.

One way of doing this could be to start using a static website as Hugo. Hugo is 
a single static binary
being able to generate static websites. More or less similar to what the Apache 
CMS is doing, except
it is being used in a quite diverse set of communities (Kubernetes being one of 
them). Content written
for the site will remain in markdown.

This afternoon I had half an hour to spare and tried to convert community.a.o 
from the current CMS
style to the style useful for Hugo. This worked out pretty well and not that 
much changes were
needed.

I have just created a pull request to the comdev-site repo on GitHub so people 
are able to review
the work I did [1].

What I propose when people are okay with this move:
- Request a comdev-site gitbox repository synced with the comdev-site repo on 
GitHub.
- Change 'trunk' to 'master' as that matches a bit more with the git style of 
working
- Merge the PR I created [1]
- Create a Jenkins job to have the site automatically generated whenever new 
commits happen.
- Move over serving community.a.o from svn to git.

I'd like to hear your opinions on this ;)

Best,
Roy

[1] https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/5

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Re: Move community.a.o site from CMS/SVN to Hugo/Git

[Rich Bowen]

To be completely clear, I'm NOT saying "don't use Hugo", I'm just 
wanting to be sure that we aren't going down a road that will make 
contribution across the Foundation even more of a patchwork. It sounds, 
from other responses, that Hugo already has wider adoption here, which 
is awesome.


On 2/19/20 7:52 AM, Roy Lenferink wrote:

Hi Daniel / Rich,

To be honest, I completely forgot the .asf.yaml was able to do such things, my 
bad.

Currently the .asf.yaml supports both Jekyll and Pelican. My previous 
experience with Jekyll is that
it is really slow at incrementally generating content when file changes are 
made (running on the
Ubuntu bash shell on Windows). Also it requires ruby, rubygems, etc. to be 
installed.

After your message I tried Pelican as well [1], I have to say, it is fairly 
easy to install (note: I already
had pip installed). However, one big disadvantage would be that Pelican its 
output is a bit of a mess.
Pelican is storing all its generated content in a single folder (e.g. 
/output/pages), which kinda
breaks every link from an external website to community.a.o, e.g. the
http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html link will be broken as well. IMO 
we need to try to
minimize impact when moving over. Of course we can work with RewriteRules and 
adding a 'Slug' to
pages but that just adds extra maintenance.

With Hugo I was able to keep all current URLs working. Generating the comdev 
site is done in ~226
ms. Hugo contains incremental builds as well (useful for development), which it 
serves from memory
instead of writing the generated files to disk (compared to Pelican). 
Installing Hugo is just as easy
as downloading the specified release, extracting the tarball and you're good to 
go ;)

GitHub statistics:
Jekyll: 39.7k stars / 8.7k forks / 893 contributors [2]
Hugo: 41.7k stars / 4.7k forks / 606 contributors [3]
Pelican: 9.4k stars / 1.6k forks / 347 contributors [4]

@ Daniel, maybe I can help Infra to possibly support Hugo builds as well ? :)

[1] https://github.com/rlenferink/comdev-site/tree/feature/conversion-to-pelican
[2] https://github.com/jekyll/jekyll
[3] https://github.com/gohugoio/hugo/
[4] https://github.com/getpelican/pelican

On 2020/02/18 19:47:30, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

There are pelican auto-builds and auto-publishing via .asf.yaml files
already, as well as custom build steps being introduced on builbot 2.

see https://s.apache.org/asfyaml for starters...

On 18/02/2020 13.45, Rich Bowen wrote:

I would like to hear more about Hugo, since it's not one that I've heard
of before.

There are a zillion different content frameworks out there, and I have
no preference for any of them except that the underlying file format is
standard-ish. Markdown, or something similar that can be easily
converted to the next framework-du-jour when Hugo is no longer the
latest hotness.

I would also strenuously encourage you to include Infra in any such
discussion, before we forge our own new path, while Infra is already
looking at a CMS replacement.



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