Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
About books, it seems we have already a definition and even a page for them http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+Related+Books We may link from the main page, and hop là About news, why not follow what David suggested: use a formal definition from a dictionnary. For instance definition 1 at http://www.answers.com/topic/news We all see that there is a perversion. A book is not a news. A news about a book is a news. This is true for all things (who care about news about news? heu... Twitter :p) KISS Jacques From: Ruth Hoffman rhoff...@aesolves.com Scott Gray wrote: I'm immensely grateful for the effort that Sharan has put into all of the documentation she has created. I can't comment on the guide because I don't have any desire to fill out your survey (that's just me, don't take it as any form of disapproval). None taken. The survey is there for one reason: to give people an opportunity to tell us what to develop next. Sort of like giving OFBiz user's the opportunity to express their opinions about OFBiz without making them jump through hoops or exposing them to ridicule. When I used the term book I was referring to the paper form which is an order of magnitude more difficult to get published and a much bigger deal (it's listed on Amazon, it has reviews, etc.). Actually, for those who may not know this...ebook creation and publication is just as difficult as paper publication. Anyone can publish a hardcopy if they have a PDF (using Lulu). There are good publications and bad ones. The devil is in the details. All that Amazon and review stuff...that comes with marketing $$$. It has nothing to do with the effort that goes into writing a book. Only how much money a publisher is will to throw at a book. BTW, I've had people comment on my books - similar to reviews. If you care to do a review and comment either way, I'd be very happy to publish your comments. Just say the word and I'll send you a copy. But as I mentioned below, things like this are just something we should discuss as a community and attempt to come to a consensus. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 7:46 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hi Scott: So, this gets really sticky because the publishing industry would say that a book is a document that consists of a certain number of pages. I don't remember exactly how many, but I think it something like 30+ pages. I know that Sharan's manufacturing guide is in excess of 30 pages. I also know that she spent many hours on this. By my reckoning, this is news. This is the first time that I know of that someone has written a piece in excess of one or two HTML web pages that speaks directly about OFBiz manufacturing and MRP features. Isn't that news? I mean isn't that great news! Someone has taken the time to put this together and is offering it to the public? Regards, Ruth Scott Gray wrote: I would most definitely class a book about OFBiz as news, it's not like they get published regularly. Assuming we go ahead and slim down the news section I would class news as being articles from a reputable news source or items of significant importance to the community (like a book being published). If there is ever any doubt about whether or not an item should go in there then I think we should just discuss it here on the dev or user list as a community. I still feel like we need some sort of guidelines for the wiki page that the ex-news items will go into, but I would really like the community to come up with the guidelines since apparently I'm too biased to be taken seriously. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597405.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
On Mar 18, 2010, at 1:41 AM, David E Jones wrote: Come on people, please stop pushing this. There are only two possible outcomes that I can see, and I don't like either of them: 1. the PMC has to vote on EVERY change to the home page, especially in the news section, to make sure everyone agrees that it is news Sadly, but I have to admit that I tend to think that the above is the best option we have, considering the recent bad feelings, accusations, disputes. The process could look like this: 1) if someone (including committers/pmc members) wants to change something on the home page, then he/she will create a patch and a Jira task 2) the committers will vote on the patch and publish or reject it (I would be tempted to say providing a reason is not mandatory) I really don't want to continue discussions like: what is a news?, what is a book?, is this independent source of information?, is this marketing? etc... Jacopo 2. we remove the news section, and anything else that might change regularly, from the home page Do we really have to resort to the most restrictive measures possible? Can't we get along with something less? Either way, I've pulled my stuff from the page and I'm out of this conversation. Have fun. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan
Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Hi Everyone I've created a page on the Wiki with the proposal suggested by Scott. I think this topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot lately – so I'd like to suggest that we try and finalise it so that it's clear for everyone going forward. Here's the link the the page with the proposal for news items. http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/iwfi If anyone is opposed to adopting these guidelines then please speak up. On the other hand if everyone is happy to adopt this then I'd like to suggest the following: 1. the page (or content) is moved to somewhere secure as you wont want anyone to overwrite or delete, what's been agreed 2. a link from the news section be made to the page content. Let's see if we can get this issue solved and get back to what we all do best - OFBiz! I'm happy to get any feedback on this. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597365.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
A couple of quick points: 1. a solution to this has already started, see Tim's recent commit and issue about the main page 2. proposals like this would generally not be adopted by lack of dissent, but rather by consent or positive vote -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi Everyone I've created a page on the Wiki with the proposal suggested by Scott. I think this topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot lately – so I'd like to suggest that we try and finalise it so that it's clear for everyone going forward. Here's the link the the page with the proposal for news items. http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/iwfi If anyone is opposed to adopting these guidelines then please speak up. On the other hand if everyone is happy to adopt this then I'd like to suggest the following: 1. the page (or content) is moved to somewhere secure as you wont want anyone to overwrite or delete, what's been agreed 2. a link from the news section be made to the page content. Let's see if we can get this issue solved and get back to what we all do best - OFBiz! I'm happy to get any feedback on this. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597365.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
I think we should create a wiki page for blogs/tutorials/etc. and we could use these guidelines for that wiki page. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 5:47 PM, David E Jones wrote: A couple of quick points: 1. a solution to this has already started, see Tim's recent commit and issue about the main page 2. proposals like this would generally not be adopted by lack of dissent, but rather by consent or positive vote -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi Everyone I've created a page on the Wiki with the proposal suggested by Scott. I think this topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot lately – so I'd like to suggest that we try and finalise it so that it's clear for everyone going forward. Here's the link the the page with the proposal for news items. http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/iwfi If anyone is opposed to adopting these guidelines then please speak up. On the other hand if everyone is happy to adopt this then I'd like to suggest the following: 1. the page (or content) is moved to somewhere secure as you wont want anyone to overwrite or delete, what's been agreed 2. a link from the news section be made to the page content. Let's see if we can get this issue solved and get back to what we all do best - OFBiz! I'm happy to get any feedback on this. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597365.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
BTW, maybe it wasn't clear in my other messages but I am against these guidelines. For a reason why take a look at which news items would have been left in and which would have been removed. IMO if it's going to be a news section, it should only be news, and all promotional material should go somewhere else. That's the direction we've started heading in, and I hope it will continue. The reason I think that is not because I'm against having these things on the home page, but it seems like if we don't draw a draconian line then every exception to that draconian line will likely favor one group or another and we can't seem to handle that as a community right now. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:47 PM, David E Jones wrote: A couple of quick points: 1. a solution to this has already started, see Tim's recent commit and issue about the main page 2. proposals like this would generally not be adopted by lack of dissent, but rather by consent or positive vote -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi Everyone I've created a page on the Wiki with the proposal suggested by Scott. I think this topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot lately – so I'd like to suggest that we try and finalise it so that it's clear for everyone going forward. Here's the link the the page with the proposal for news items. http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/iwfi If anyone is opposed to adopting these guidelines then please speak up. On the other hand if everyone is happy to adopt this then I'd like to suggest the following: 1. the page (or content) is moved to somewhere secure as you wont want anyone to overwrite or delete, what's been agreed 2. a link from the news section be made to the page content. Let's see if we can get this issue solved and get back to what we all do best - OFBiz! I'm happy to get any feedback on this. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597365.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
+1 Cheers, Ruppert On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:02 PM, David E Jones wrote: BTW, maybe it wasn't clear in my other messages but I am against these guidelines. For a reason why take a look at which news items would have been left in and which would have been removed. IMO if it's going to be a news section, it should only be news, and all promotional material should go somewhere else. That's the direction we've started heading in, and I hope it will continue. The reason I think that is not because I'm against having these things on the home page, but it seems like if we don't draw a draconian line then every exception to that draconian line will likely favor one group or another and we can't seem to handle that as a community right now. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:47 PM, David E Jones wrote: A couple of quick points: 1. a solution to this has already started, see Tim's recent commit and issue about the main page 2. proposals like this would generally not be adopted by lack of dissent, but rather by consent or positive vote -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi Everyone I've created a page on the Wiki with the proposal suggested by Scott. I think this topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot lately – so I'd like to suggest that we try and finalise it so that it's clear for everyone going forward. Here's the link the the page with the proposal for news items. http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/iwfi If anyone is opposed to adopting these guidelines then please speak up. On the other hand if everyone is happy to adopt this then I'd like to suggest the following: 1. the page (or content) is moved to somewhere secure as you wont want anyone to overwrite or delete, what's been agreed 2. a link from the news section be made to the page content. Let's see if we can get this issue solved and get back to what we all do best - OFBiz! I'm happy to get any feedback on this. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597365.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
We seem to be at an impasse here as we can't even agree on what is news. IMHO, the more news (where news is anything new including new promotional material) on the front page the better. It doesn't really matter what is in the news, it's the fact that there is activity that is important. I realize it is work for someone to post the links on the web page, so maybe the restriction is only that there will be but one post per person per week. Who might a person be? How about anyone with a Wiki login account? So, anyone who cares enough to get a Wiki login can have the privilege of posting (or rather submitting an item to be posted) as often as they like, but only one post will be considered per week, per login. That way, no one needs to determine what is news and what is not news. Let the reader decide if an item is really news. Readers are smarter than you seem to give them credit for. They see the same things posted over and over again and they know what to do with that kind of news. Just a suggestion. Regards, Ruth Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword myofbiz ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com David E Jones wrote: BTW, maybe it wasn't clear in my other messages but I am against these guidelines. For a reason why take a look at which news items would have been left in and which would have been removed. IMO if it's going to be a news section, it should only be news, and all promotional material should go somewhere else. That's the direction we've started heading in, and I hope it will continue. The reason I think that is not because I'm against having these things on the home page, but it seems like if we don't draw a draconian line then every exception to that draconian line will likely favor one group or another and we can't seem to handle that as a community right now. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:47 PM, David E Jones wrote: A couple of quick points: 1. a solution to this has already started, see Tim's recent commit and issue about the main page 2. proposals like this would generally not be adopted by lack of dissent, but rather by consent or positive vote -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi Everyone I've created a page on the Wiki with the proposal suggested by Scott. I think this topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot lately – so I'd like to suggest that we try and finalise it so that it's clear for everyone going forward. Here's the link the the page with the proposal for news items. http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/iwfi If anyone is opposed to adopting these guidelines then please speak up. On the other hand if everyone is happy to adopt this then I'd like to suggest the following: 1. the page (or content) is moved to somewhere secure as you wont want anyone to overwrite or delete, what's been agreed 2. a link from the news section be made to the page content. Let's see if we can get this issue solved and get back to what we all do best - OFBiz! I'm happy to get any feedback on this. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597365.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
This other stuff should definitely be in the wiki - and we should drive people there IMO. Easier to administer and work on as a larger group. Cheers, Ruppert On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: We seem to be at an impasse here as we can't even agree on what is news. IMHO, the more news (where news is anything new including new promotional material) on the front page the better. It doesn't really matter what is in the news, it's the fact that there is activity that is important. I realize it is work for someone to post the links on the web page, so maybe the restriction is only that there will be but one post per person per week. Who might a person be? How about anyone with a Wiki login account? So, anyone who cares enough to get a Wiki login can have the privilege of posting (or rather submitting an item to be posted) as often as they like, but only one post will be considered per week, per login. That way, no one needs to determine what is news and what is not news. Let the reader decide if an item is really news. Readers are smarter than you seem to give them credit for. They see the same things posted over and over again and they know what to do with that kind of news. Just a suggestion. Regards, Ruth Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword myofbiz ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com David E Jones wrote: BTW, maybe it wasn't clear in my other messages but I am against these guidelines. For a reason why take a look at which news items would have been left in and which would have been removed. IMO if it's going to be a news section, it should only be news, and all promotional material should go somewhere else. That's the direction we've started heading in, and I hope it will continue. The reason I think that is not because I'm against having these things on the home page, but it seems like if we don't draw a draconian line then every exception to that draconian line will likely favor one group or another and we can't seem to handle that as a community right now. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:47 PM, David E Jones wrote: A couple of quick points: 1. a solution to this has already started, see Tim's recent commit and issue about the main page 2. proposals like this would generally not be adopted by lack of dissent, but rather by consent or positive vote -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi Everyone I've created a page on the Wiki with the proposal suggested by Scott. I think this topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot lately – so I'd like to suggest that we try and finalise it so that it's clear for everyone going forward. Here's the link the the page with the proposal for news items. http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/iwfi If anyone is opposed to adopting these guidelines then please speak up. On the other hand if everyone is happy to adopt this then I'd like to suggest the following: 1. the page (or content) is moved to somewhere secure as you wont want anyone to overwrite or delete, what's been agreed 2. a link from the news section be made to the page content. Let's see if we can get this issue solved and get back to what we all do best - OFBiz! I'm happy to get any feedback on this. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597365.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
This is the way I always hoped it would be, but instead this has resulted in one conflict after another. That's what I mean when I say that we can't seem to handle this as a community right now, and that's why I'm in favour of tight restrictions on the home page news. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: We seem to be at an impasse here as we can't even agree on what is news. IMHO, the more news (where news is anything new including new promotional material) on the front page the better. It doesn't really matter what is in the news, it's the fact that there is activity that is important. I realize it is work for someone to post the links on the web page, so maybe the restriction is only that there will be but one post per person per week. Who might a person be? How about anyone with a Wiki login account? So, anyone who cares enough to get a Wiki login can have the privilege of posting (or rather submitting an item to be posted) as often as they like, but only one post will be considered per week, per login. That way, no one needs to determine what is news and what is not news. Let the reader decide if an item is really news. Readers are smarter than you seem to give them credit for. They see the same things posted over and over again and they know what to do with that kind of news. Just a suggestion. Regards, Ruth Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword myofbiz ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com David E Jones wrote: BTW, maybe it wasn't clear in my other messages but I am against these guidelines. For a reason why take a look at which news items would have been left in and which would have been removed. IMO if it's going to be a news section, it should only be news, and all promotional material should go somewhere else. That's the direction we've started heading in, and I hope it will continue. The reason I think that is not because I'm against having these things on the home page, but it seems like if we don't draw a draconian line then every exception to that draconian line will likely favor one group or another and we can't seem to handle that as a community right now. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:47 PM, David E Jones wrote: A couple of quick points: 1. a solution to this has already started, see Tim's recent commit and issue about the main page 2. proposals like this would generally not be adopted by lack of dissent, but rather by consent or positive vote -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi Everyone I've created a page on the Wiki with the proposal suggested by Scott. I think this topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot lately – so I'd like to suggest that we try and finalise it so that it's clear for everyone going forward. Here's the link the the page with the proposal for news items. http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/iwfi If anyone is opposed to adopting these guidelines then please speak up. On the other hand if everyone is happy to adopt this then I'd like to suggest the following: 1. the page (or content) is moved to somewhere secure as you wont want anyone to overwrite or delete, what's been agreed 2. a link from the news section be made to the page content. Let's see if we can get this issue solved and get back to what we all do best - OFBiz! I'm happy to get any feedback on this. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597365.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597405.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Come on people, please stop pushing this. There are only two possible outcomes that I can see, and I don't like either of them: 1. the PMC has to vote on EVERY change to the home page, especially in the news section, to make sure everyone agrees that it is news 2. we remove the news section, and anything else that might change regularly, from the home page Do we really have to resort to the most restrictive measures possible? Can't we get along with something less? Either way, I've pulled my stuff from the page and I'm out of this conversation. Have fun. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Is this true: every change to the home page must be voted on? Or is that what you are proposing? Please clarify. Regards, Ruth David E Jones wrote: Come on people, please stop pushing this. There are only two possible outcomes that I can see, and I don't like either of them: 1. the PMC has to vote on EVERY change to the home page, especially in the news section, to make sure everyone agrees that it is news 2. we remove the news section, and anything else that might change regularly, from the home page Do we really have to resort to the most restrictive measures possible? Can't we get along with something less? Either way, I've pulled my stuff from the page and I'm out of this conversation. Have fun. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Sorry, I thought the word outcomes and other future tense sentences would have made this clear. No, this is not the current policy. My point is that if people keep pushing things the ways they are these are the only two eventual outcomes. There might be a few steps in between with this policy or that to try to define things and draw distinctions, and complaints as different scenarios arise to question these things, all the time people justifying their own positions and condemning those of others. At the end all we have is more and more restrictions until we end up with the most restrictive outcomes possible, and the two I listed are the most likely ones that came to mind while thinking about this. Is that more clear? -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Is this true: every change to the home page must be voted on? Or is that what you are proposing? Please clarify. Regards, Ruth David E Jones wrote: Come on people, please stop pushing this. There are only two possible outcomes that I can see, and I don't like either of them: 1. the PMC has to vote on EVERY change to the home page, especially in the news section, to make sure everyone agrees that it is news 2. we remove the news section, and anything else that might change regularly, from the home page Do we really have to resort to the most restrictive measures possible? Can't we get along with something less? Either way, I've pulled my stuff from the page and I'm out of this conversation. Have fun. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Hi Everyone I disagree with David – I dont think those are the only two options available. This is the issue the way I see it - it's about OFBiz service providers putting content (eg tutorials, guides, blogs) in the news section. So if all these are now to be moved to a wiki page – then that's great – as long as this is agreed. From what people are saying - this is the way we want to go so please can someone remove the link to the manufacturing guide from the news section. I'm happy to add it to the new wiki page. So the next question – what is news? How about this for a definition – something that is reported from a source not that is not directly linked to the OFBiz project or a service provider. The only caveat here is that I would suggest the inclusion of information from ASF itself. This is a simple definition with a simple formula that can be easily understood. So for example – the Packt book is news and if an OFBiz service provider does something that is reported by say the Washington Post, then that's news too. Could this be an acceptable definition and solution ? Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597438.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
I would most definitely class a book about OFBiz as news, it's not like they get published regularly. Assuming we go ahead and slim down the news section I would class news as being articles from a reputable news source or items of significant importance to the community (like a book being published). If there is ever any doubt about whether or not an item should go in there then I think we should just discuss it here on the dev or user list as a community. I still feel like we need some sort of guidelines for the wiki page that the ex-news items will go into, but I would really like the community to come up with the guidelines since apparently I'm too biased to be taken seriously. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597405.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi Everyone I disagree with David – I dont think those are the only two options available. This is the issue the way I see it - it's about OFBiz service providers putting content (eg tutorials, guides, blogs) in the news section. So if all these are now to be moved to a wiki page – then that's great – as long as this is agreed. From what people are saying - this is the way we want to go so please can someone remove the link to the manufacturing guide from the news section. I'm happy to add it to the new wiki page. So the next question – what is news? How about this for a definition – something that is reported from a source not that is not directly linked to the OFBiz project or a service provider. The only caveat here is that I would suggest the inclusion of information from ASF itself. This is a simple definition with a simple formula that can be easily understood. So for example – the Packt book is news and if an OFBiz service provider does something that is reported by say the Washington Post, then that's news too. Could this be an acceptable definition and solution ? So in other words being a service provider for OFBiz becomes a liability and those who engage in amateur journalism through blogging and/or twittering are out? Sorry Sharan, but this is what I mean... every possible definition will have issues. Even if a definition is agreed on, how do we enforce it? Who will judge if something is appropriate or not by the definition? Who will interpret it? And... we're back to where we are now. -David
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Hi Scott I think we're definitely on the same page here (excuse the pun). I was just posting a similar definition of news at the same time. Anyway I'm happy to volunteer my services to put some guidelines together if required. I'll change the title of the current page from News items to Wiki ex- news items (or whatever it will be called). Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597456.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Hi Scott: So, this gets really sticky because the publishing industry would say that a book is a document that consists of a certain number of pages. I don't remember exactly how many, but I think it something like 30+ pages. I know that Sharan's manufacturing guide is in excess of 30 pages. I also know that she spent many hours on this. By my reckoning, this is news. This is the first time that I know of that someone has written a piece in excess of one or two HTML web pages that speaks directly about OFBiz manufacturing and MRP features. Isn't that news? I mean isn't that great news! Someone has taken the time to put this together and is offering it to the public? Regards, Ruth Scott Gray wrote: I would most definitely class a book about OFBiz as news, it's not like they get published regularly. Assuming we go ahead and slim down the news section I would class news as being articles from a reputable news source or items of significant importance to the community (like a book being published). If there is ever any doubt about whether or not an item should go in there then I think we should just discuss it here on the dev or user list as a community. I still feel like we need some sort of guidelines for the wiki page that the ex-news items will go into, but I would really like the community to come up with the guidelines since apparently I'm too biased to be taken seriously. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597405.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
And we go back 'round to the beginning... You may think this is news but how is not the same sort of promotion that is causing all of this hullabaloo? Should we add news items for every significant work related to the project? What is significant? Should we add some news about the various open source add-ons and about derivative works like opentaps? People spent many hour on those. On a side note, I had no idea hullabaloo was a real word, but according to the Oxford American Dictionaries it is a real word and that's how it's spelled to boot. -David On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:46 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hi Scott: So, this gets really sticky because the publishing industry would say that a book is a document that consists of a certain number of pages. I don't remember exactly how many, but I think it something like 30+ pages. I know that Sharan's manufacturing guide is in excess of 30 pages. I also know that she spent many hours on this. By my reckoning, this is news. This is the first time that I know of that someone has written a piece in excess of one or two HTML web pages that speaks directly about OFBiz manufacturing and MRP features. Isn't that news? I mean isn't that great news! Someone has taken the time to put this together and is offering it to the public? Regards, Ruth Scott Gray wrote: I would most definitely class a book about OFBiz as news, it's not like they get published regularly. Assuming we go ahead and slim down the news section I would class news as being articles from a reputable news source or items of significant importance to the community (like a book being published). If there is ever any doubt about whether or not an item should go in there then I think we should just discuss it here on the dev or user list as a community. I still feel like we need some sort of guidelines for the wiki page that the ex-news items will go into, but I would really like the community to come up with the guidelines since apparently I'm too biased to be taken seriously. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597405.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
I'm immensely grateful for the effort that Sharan has put into all of the documentation she has created. I can't comment on the guide because I don't have any desire to fill out your survey (that's just me, don't take it as any form of disapproval). When I used the term book I was referring to the paper form which is an order of magnitude more difficult to get published and a much bigger deal (it's listed on Amazon, it has reviews, etc.). But as I mentioned below, things like this are just something we should discuss as a community and attempt to come to a consensus. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 7:46 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hi Scott: So, this gets really sticky because the publishing industry would say that a book is a document that consists of a certain number of pages. I don't remember exactly how many, but I think it something like 30+ pages. I know that Sharan's manufacturing guide is in excess of 30 pages. I also know that she spent many hours on this. By my reckoning, this is news. This is the first time that I know of that someone has written a piece in excess of one or two HTML web pages that speaks directly about OFBiz manufacturing and MRP features. Isn't that news? I mean isn't that great news! Someone has taken the time to put this together and is offering it to the public? Regards, Ruth Scott Gray wrote: I would most definitely class a book about OFBiz as news, it's not like they get published regularly. Assuming we go ahead and slim down the news section I would class news as being articles from a reputable news source or items of significant importance to the community (like a book being published). If there is ever any doubt about whether or not an item should go in there then I think we should just discuss it here on the dev or user list as a community. I still feel like we need some sort of guidelines for the wiki page that the ex-news items will go into, but I would really like the community to come up with the guidelines since apparently I'm too biased to be taken seriously. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597405.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Proposal Guidelines for News Items
Scott Gray wrote: I'm immensely grateful for the effort that Sharan has put into all of the documentation she has created. I can't comment on the guide because I don't have any desire to fill out your survey (that's just me, don't take it as any form of disapproval). None taken. The survey is there for one reason: to give people an opportunity to tell us what to develop next. Sort of like giving OFBiz user's the opportunity to express their opinions about OFBiz without making them jump through hoops or exposing them to ridicule. When I used the term book I was referring to the paper form which is an order of magnitude more difficult to get published and a much bigger deal (it's listed on Amazon, it has reviews, etc.). Actually, for those who may not know this...ebook creation and publication is just as difficult as paper publication. Anyone can publish a hardcopy if they have a PDF (using Lulu). There are good publications and bad ones. The devil is in the details. All that Amazon and review stuff...that comes with marketing $$$. It has nothing to do with the effort that goes into writing a book. Only how much money a publisher is will to throw at a book. BTW, I've had people comment on my books - similar to reviews. If you care to do a review and comment either way, I'd be very happy to publish your comments. Just say the word and I'll send you a copy. But as I mentioned below, things like this are just something we should discuss as a community and attempt to come to a consensus. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 7:46 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hi Scott: So, this gets really sticky because the publishing industry would say that a book is a document that consists of a certain number of pages. I don't remember exactly how many, but I think it something like 30+ pages. I know that Sharan's manufacturing guide is in excess of 30 pages. I also know that she spent many hours on this. By my reckoning, this is news. This is the first time that I know of that someone has written a piece in excess of one or two HTML web pages that speaks directly about OFBiz manufacturing and MRP features. Isn't that news? I mean isn't that great news! Someone has taken the time to put this together and is offering it to the public? Regards, Ruth Scott Gray wrote: I would most definitely class a book about OFBiz as news, it's not like they get published regularly. Assuming we go ahead and slim down the news section I would class news as being articles from a reputable news source or items of significant importance to the community (like a book being published). If there is ever any doubt about whether or not an item should go in there then I think we should just discuss it here on the dev or user list as a community. I still feel like we need some sort of guidelines for the wiki page that the ex-news items will go into, but I would really like the community to come up with the guidelines since apparently I'm too biased to be taken seriously. Regards Scott On 17/03/2010, at 6:32 PM, Sharan-F wrote: Hi David If that's what the community wants then thats OK with me but I think we need to define what 'news' is. For example is the book by Packt publishing classed as news or promotional material? (To me its news but it also promotes Packt) I think if there can be any ambiguity then we need something the say what is acceptable and what is not. If Tim has this covered then great but I'd still think it would be good to have something written somewhere so we're all clear on what's what. Thanks Sharan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Proposal-Guidelines-for-News-Items-tp1597365p1597405.html Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
