Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

Hey Olivier,hey Mailing-List,
I cleaned up my repository and text form of the specification with
examples can now be found at 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/spec/README.md
. The JSON form of the specification can be found in the same tree at 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/spec/1.json
. Examples of the JSON specification can be found here 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/tree/master/example
.
> - The general goals of the transformations
You can find them at 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md
and the ethic & philosophy as principles at 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.md
(spotted a d instead of t, I apologize for that).
> - Known implementations of transformations rules
I did this not on my own but this seems good 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/391484 . I linked
to that also earlier at 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/issues/3#issuecomment-565827117
.
> A little roadmap to a working sample
Since the specification is not ready yet I cannot write a script that
works with the specification. Once the specification is ready for its
first launch, once we can start to write scripts.
> - Decision taken to move further
See the bottom of 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md
, there's a short ToDo which I will extend from time to time.
Ways of contributing to tagtransform:
a) Joining my Slack Workspace and discussing there (The outcomes of the
discussions will be summarized and uploaded in issues or as a part of
an existing one since Slaclk does not provide a good way of
summarizing)b) Creating Pull Requests, Issues, etc. on GitHubc) E-
Mailing me examples of use (Use Cases), improvements of the
specifications. (I will then create issues, make commits and perform
other actions).d) Voice-Over-Audio Calls via Slack, Hangout, Skype,
Jitsi or Telegram.
Why I use Slack:
- Slack is good to start Subthreads- Slack supports chat-style
conversations.
Why I use GitHub:
- Good for organising code and specifications- Good for work summary-
Good for milestones- Good for bugtracking.
Feel free to use Slack, GitHub, E-Mail or Voice-Over-Audio to
contribute to tagtransform. My personal belief is that using a
combination of them unleashes more potential and more creativity. (More
than one world behaviour aka bridging world workflow). As one, who
beliefs in joy and ease and the Many-worlds interpretation in
communication and creative working, bridging is important and boosts
creativity of individuals. It's part of my spirituality and therefore I
do not force one to use the communication method of my choice. I
provide many possibilities to peace all or many.
As next we need to work on the specification.
Cheers of joy and ease
Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Andy Townsend]

On 12/12/2019 17:47, Sören Reinecke via dev wrote:
Nothing is wrong with GitHub issues but GitHub has limitations when it 
comes to instant team talks. Slack allows to open subthreads when a 
point from someone needs to be negotiated. And that allows more deep 
communication and organisation.


Indeed, but I suspect that if you try and use a new Slack workspace for 
this you'll end up doing this mostly on your own, so that's a bit of a 
moot point.


That's not necessarily a showstopper - many of the most useful things in 
OSM started out as "single person projects" and some still are, but if 
you genuinely want a community to work on this I don't think it's the 
best route to go.


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

I think it's time to think about the specification. My idea is to create a format which we can use to import rules from existing projects to, collect and process them all united and then export then back to the various formats used by several projects. The specification therefore is the "bridge" between those formats and connects them (connecting different worlds together).The import/export procedures can be coordinated through Bots. The discussion about how the spec should look like happens in the "specification" channel on Slack Workspace https://join.slack.com/t/tagtransform/shared_invite/enQtODYzNjEzMTk1NjgxLTdiMDZlOWQzNjE0M2Y4OTE2M2E4MzQ1N2Q4MjhlYjNjZmRmMmVjNjk3ZjIyZTAzNmZiMWU1Y2IyYTUxZjRmNGI and summaries/updates of the outcome of the discussion will be provided in https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/issues/4 because Slack does not provide any good method to summarize discussions (so far I know).I've made a first Draft of the specification which can be viewed at https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/tree/master/spec . If you want to provide improvements then do a Pull Request or join Slack.CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Sören Reinecke via dev To: Mateusz Konieczny CC: Dev Nothing is wrong with GitHub issues but GitHub has limitations when it comes to instant team talks. Slack allows to open subthreads when a point from someone needs to be negotiated. And that allows more deep communication and organisation. Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Mateusz Konieczny To: CC: Dev 
  
  
What is wrong with GitHub issues?Can be followed easily, are not a resource hogand do on.(Maybe I am unusual that I use Slack rarelyand most of others are usually on Slack)12 Dec 2019, 17:36 by dev@openstreetmap.org:Hi all,I've now set up a Slack Workplace for further discussion and work. Ask me and I will invite you.CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Sören Reinecke via dev To: dev@openstreetmap.orgCC: Hi Gerd,nice to hear your heartbeat for tagtransform. Take a look at the GitHub issue https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/issues/3 where I wrote down the infrastructure I'm planning. There I mention also the use of bot script to automatically collect rules from various validators and rule databases and to convert these to the format tagtransform uses to unify data from different sources. This allows the modification and the convert back to all the other formats used by different programs. This way we create a sustainable and good ecosystem of validation rules.The way the team I want to set up communicates and exchanges is GitHub and Slack. On GitHub we will first work in my repository, later on we can create an organisation and move the repo. In Slack I need to create a workplace and figure out how moderation in Slack works.CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor NaramPS: This content is of public interest that's why this e-mail belongs to this list.-Original Message-From: Gerd Petermann To: dev@openstreetmap.orgSubject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherDate: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:38:02 -0700 (MST)Hi all,What could be the user interface for such a collection of rules?I can think of a preprocessor like osmfilter or some kind of wiki tool whichcould add hints to wiki pages.Or maybe a rule generator which could create rules for a target program likemkgmap?Gerd--Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Developer-Discussion-f5233107.html___dev mailing listdev@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev  

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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

Nothing is wrong with GitHub issues but GitHub has limitations when it comes to instant team talks. Slack allows to open subthreads when a point from someone needs to be negotiated. And that allows more deep communication and organisation. Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Mateusz Konieczny To: CC: Dev 
  
  
What is wrong with GitHub issues?Can be followed easily, are not a resource hogand do on.(Maybe I am unusual that I use Slack rarelyand most of others are usually on Slack)12 Dec 2019, 17:36 by dev@openstreetmap.org:Hi all,I've now set up a Slack Workplace for further discussion and work. Ask me and I will invite you.CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Sören Reinecke via dev To: dev@openstreetmap.orgCC: Hi Gerd,nice to hear your heartbeat for tagtransform. Take a look at the GitHub issue https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/issues/3 where I wrote down the infrastructure I'm planning. There I mention also the use of bot script to automatically collect rules from various validators and rule databases and to convert these to the format tagtransform uses to unify data from different sources. This allows the modification and the convert back to all the other formats used by different programs. This way we create a sustainable and good ecosystem of validation rules.The way the team I want to set up communicates and exchanges is GitHub and Slack. On GitHub we will first work in my repository, later on we can create an organisation and move the repo. In Slack I need to create a workplace and figure out how moderation in Slack works.CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor NaramPS: This content is of public interest that's why this e-mail belongs to this list.-Original Message-From: Gerd Petermann To: dev@openstreetmap.orgSubject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherDate: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:38:02 -0700 (MST)Hi all,What could be the user interface for such a collection of rules?I can think of a preprocessor like osmfilter or some kind of wiki tool whichcould add hints to wiki pages.Or maybe a rule generator which could create rules for a target program likemkgmap?Gerd--Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Developer-Discussion-f5233107.html___dev mailing listdev@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev  

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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Mateusz Konieczny]

What is wrong with GitHub issues?

Can be followed easily, are not a resource hog
and do on.

(Maybe I am unusual that I use Slack rarely
and most of others are usually on Slack)

12 Dec 2019, 17:36 by dev@openstreetmap.org:

> Hi all,
>
> I've now set up a Slack Workplace for further discussion and work. Ask me and 
> I will invite you.
>
> Cheers
>
> Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
>
>
>  Original Message ----
> Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and 
> using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
> From: Sören Reinecke via dev 
> To: dev@openstreetmap.org
> CC: 
>
>
>
>> Hi Gerd,
>>
>> nice to hear your heartbeat for tagtransform. Take a look at the GitHub 
>> issue >> 
>> https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/issues/3>>  where 
>> I wrote down the infrastructure I'm planning. There I mention also the use 
>> of bot script to automatically collect rules from various validators and 
>> rule databases and to convert these to the format tagtransform uses to unify 
>> data from different sources. This allows the modification and the convert 
>> back to all the other formats used by different programs. This way we create 
>> a sustainable and good ecosystem of validation rules.
>>
>> The way the team I want to set up communicates and exchanges is GitHub and 
>> Slack. On GitHub we will first work in my repository, later on we can create 
>> an organisation and move the repo. In Slack I need to create a workplace and 
>> figure out how moderation in Slack works.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
>>
>>
>> PS: This content is of public interest that's why this e-mail belongs to 
>> this list.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From>> : Gerd Petermann <>> gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com 
>> <mailto:gerd%20petermann%20%3cgpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com%3e>>> >
>> To>> : >> dev@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject>> : Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and 
>> using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
>> Date>> : Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:38:02 -0700 (MST)
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What could be the user interface for such a collection of rules?
>> I can think of a preprocessor like osmfilter or some kind of wiki tool which
>> could add hints to wiki pages.
>> Or maybe a rule generator which could create rules for a target program like
>> mkgmap?
>>
>> Gerd
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: 
>> http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Developer-Discussion-f5233107.html
>>
>>
>> ___
>> dev mailing list
>> dev@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>>
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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

Hi all,I've now set up a Slack Workplace for further discussion and work. Ask me and I will invite you.CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Sören Reinecke via dev To: dev@openstreetmap.orgCC: Hi Gerd,nice to hear your heartbeat for tagtransform. Take a look at the GitHub issue https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/issues/3 where I wrote down the infrastructure I'm planning. There I mention also the use of bot script to automatically collect rules from various validators and rule databases and to convert these to the format tagtransform uses to unify data from different sources. This allows the modification and the convert back to all the other formats used by different programs. This way we create a sustainable and good ecosystem of validation rules.The way the team I want to set up communicates and exchanges is GitHub and Slack. On GitHub we will first work in my repository, later on we can create an organisation and move the repo. In Slack I need to create a workplace and figure out how moderation in Slack works.CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor NaramPS: This content is of public interest that's why this e-mail belongs to this list.-Original Message-From: Gerd Petermann To: dev@openstreetmap.orgSubject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherDate: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:38:02 -0700 (MST)Hi all,What could be the user interface for such a collection of rules?I can think of a preprocessor like osmfilter or some kind of wiki tool whichcould add hints to wiki pages.Or maybe a rule generator which could create rules for a target program likemkgmap?Gerd--Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Developer-Discussion-f5233107.html___dev mailing listdev@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

Hi Gerd,

nice to hear your heartbeat for tagtransform. Take a look at the GitHub
issue 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/issues/3
where I wrote down the infrastructure I'm planning. There I mention also the 
use of bot script to automatically collect rules from various validators and 
rule databases and to convert these to the format tagtransform uses to unify 
data from different sources. This allows the modification and the convert back 
to all the other formats used by different programs. This way we create a 
sustainable and good ecosystem of validation rules.

The way the team I want to set up communicates and exchanges is GitHub
and Slack. On GitHub we will first work in my repository, later on we
can create an organisation and move the repo. In Slack I need to create
a workplace and figure out how moderation in Slack works.

Cheers

Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram


PS: This content is of public interest that's why this e-mail belongs
to this list.

-Original Message-
From: Gerd Petermann 
To: dev@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and
using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:38:02 -0700 (MST)

Hi all,
What could be the user interface for such a collection of rules?I can
think of a preprocessor like osmfilter or some kind of wiki tool
whichcould add hints to wiki pages.Or maybe a rule generator which
could create rules for a target program likemkgmap?
Gerd


--Sent from: 
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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Gerd Petermann]

Hi all,

What could be the user interface for such a collection of rules?
I can think of a preprocessor like osmfilter or some kind of wiki tool which
could add hints to wiki pages.
Or maybe a rule generator which could create rules for a target program like
mkgmap?

Gerd



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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Andy Townsend]

On 06/12/2019 14:08, Jean Marie Falisse wrote:


1.  Is all this written in java?


Taking the examples from 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/391484 :


 * osmosis is written in Java
 * osmium is I believe C++
 * osm2pgsql's lua interface (obviously) calls things written in lua
 * mkgmap is Java, and uses a style definition in its own format
 * OsmAnd (Android) is Android Java, but the style definitions (which
   can do tag transforms) are just XML files
 * osmfilter is C
 * Valhalla appears to be C++




2.  Is there anything going on in Haskell? I’d love to be involved in 
something using Haskell.


I'm not aware of anything, but most of those examples are to some extent 
stand-alone - if you wanted to write something in Haskell to do the same 
or a different standalone job you could.


For example, suppose you wanted to write something that you wanted to 
maintain a personal list of tags that you as a data consumer wanted to 
be treated as if they were another tag.  It'd be able to generate from 
this list:


 * lua for use by the "generic" lua call from osm2pgsql
 * Java called by mkgmap, or a style definition that can be used by it
 * XML style definitions for OsmAnd

You could write the code to generate the above in anything you like, 
even COBOL*.


Best Regards,

Andy

* not just a joke - I did do something very like this in a COBOL-based 
language in the 1980s on a long-defunct minicomputer platform.




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Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

> Probably we need a "Metadata Working Group" to collect this type of informations,> and store the information  in the "central metadata repository"(?) .. ( with a good license ) Yes, you're right. We need a group of people working on a specification and on tools to make it easier to validate and to use data for both mappers and developers. But we need people with knowleadge. Maybe we can create a seperate mailing list?CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Imre Samu To: Sören Reinecke CC: OSM-Dev Openstreetmap > There are some available options I see: > What do you prefer or do you have another options to addIMHO:it is a hard problem ..    ( we need more use cases ...  for find the global optimum )on the other hand -  I am interested in your Proof of Concept solutions.  Probably we need a "Metadata Working Group" to collect this type of informations,and store the information  in the "central metadata repository"(?) .. ( with a good license ) related - with this discussions:  https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/391484Sharing some use cases :iD Editor - tag-transformation metadata The iD editor has a lot of metadata , probably we can analyze ..the tag transformation metadata is very simple, and it has ~302 transformation rules.Data license :  ISCexample:{   "old": {"aerialway": "canopy"},    "replace": {"aerialway": "zip_line"}},{   "old": {"aeroway": "aerobridge"},    "replace": {"aeroway": "jet_bridge", "highway": "corridor"}},{ "old": {"access": "public"},  "replace": {"access": "yes"}},or a little more complex:{ "old": {"building:type": "*"},    "replace": {"building": "$1"}},LINK  https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/master/data/deprecated.jsonDeprecated tags OSM wiki : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Deprecated_featuresiD Editor - Discarded tagshttps://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/master/data/discarded.json  ( ~ 46 tags )see other discardable tags (JOSM,Potlach, ) https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Discardable_tagsImposm3 has a special tag transformation typestags exclude: exclude: [created_by, source, "tiger:*"]and has some special "data mapping"[1] rules:- bool / direction / enumerate /categorize / https://imposm.org/docs/imposm3/latest/mapping.html#column-types[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_mapping and I would like to add the"COALESCE()" transformations to the transformation rules..example:   "name" =  coalesce("name","name:en","name:de","name:fr")giggls/mapnik-german-l10n repo has a streetname abbreviation ruleshttps://github.com/giggls/mapnik-german-l10n/blob/master/plpgsql/street_abbrv.sqlexample:  abbrev=regexp_replace(abbrev,'(?  abbrev=regexp_replace(abbrev,'(?!^)Boulevard\M','Blvd.');  abbrev=regexp_replace(abbrev,'Crescent\M','Cres.');  abbrev=regexp_replace(abbrev,'Court\M','Ct');  abbrev=regexp_replace(abbrev,'Drive\M','Dr.');  abbrev=regexp_replace(abbrev,'Lane\M','Ln.');QA ToolsAnd we can collaborate with QA tools ..  for validating "values"https://github.com/osm-fr/osmose-backend/blob/master/plugins/Website.pylike ...  URL type values ..  If not valid RFC URL ..  we can safely drop .."contact:webcam""contact:website""facebook""url""website:mobile" "website:stock""website"other QA tools:  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quality_assuranceon the other hand - the validation is hard ( https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/    https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187=en )OSRM ( routing) LUA transformations- https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/master/profiles/bicycle.lua- https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/master/profiles/car.lua- https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/master/profiles/foot.luaPostgreSQLSometimes the tag transformation is in SQLhttps://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/project.mmlfor example - the oneway is not so simple:           CASE              WHEN oneway IN ('yes', '-1') THEN oneway              WHEN junction IN ('roundabout') AND (oneway IS NULL OR NOT oneway IN ('no', 'reversible')) THEN 'yes'              ELSE NULL            END AS oneway,or  size of the telescope: CASE  WHEN man_made IN ('telescope') THEN  CASE    WHEN tags->'telescope:diameter' ~ '^-?\d{1,4}(\.\d+)?$' THEN (tags->'telescope:diameter')::NUMERIC    ELSE NULL  END ELSE NULLEND AS "telescope:diameter",if we can move this type of transformation to the osm2pgsql  side ..   the rendering will be faster We need some Unicode cleaning rulesLike my favorite problems with different apostrophes : https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ImreSamu/diary/34905There are some "trap" tags .. detecting bad imports  ( latitude, longitude, lat, lon  ) - https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=latitude- https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/LATWe can easily drop this tags ..   or create a QA list  

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Imre Samu]

OSM_tags_for_routing/Maxspeed )
-   injecting 3rd party data  ( for example Wikidata labels , driving side
, country admin code  )
-   validating 3rd party links ( wikipedia links  ,  wikidata id-s; website
urls , facebook links  )
-   validating osm "values" from the lookup tables / regexp   (  example:
"building:color" )
-   removing nested relations ( role=subarea)
https://github.com/osmcode/osmium-tool/issues/169


For an *ad-hoc transformation* ( osm.pbf -> osm.pbf ) we can use
- https://osmcode.org/opl-file-format/
- osm xml format
   osmium cat  input.osm.pbf -f xml --no-progress  -o -  |   sed ...  |
osmium cat - --input-format xml  -o output.osm.pbf
- https://osmcode.org/pyosmium/  ( python )
- https://github.com/osmcode/node-osmium ( Javascript )
- ( osm.pbf ) Golang libs  ...
- 

Regards,
 Imre


Sören Reinecke  ezt írta (időpont: 2019. dec. 6.,
P, 13:33):

> There are some available options I see:
> a) Not working on this further.
> b) Using `tagtransform for OSM` to create an own transformation
> specification.
> c) Writing converters which convert from a format to the format of
> `tagtransform for OSM` and writing converters to convert from the format of
> `tagtransform for OSM` to another format programs can work with. Using my
> specification which needs to be extended to create conpactibility among
> different formats while ensuring that my spec can be used on its own.
>
> What do you prefer or do you have another options to add?
>
> Cheers
>
> Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and
> using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
> From: Imre Samu
> To: Sören Reinecke
> CC: OSM-Dev Openstreetmap
>
>
> > I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap
> to make life of data customers easier.
>
> imho:  we can import some good ideas from
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/TagTransform schema ..
> *"The tag transform Osmosis plugin allows arbitrary tag transforms to be
> applied to OSM data as a preprocessing step before using other tools. This
> allows other tools to concentrate on doing what ever they do, without
> having to handle numerous different tagging schemes and error corrections."*
> imho:   regexp is useful.
>
> probably the "lua" is good glue/meta language - for writing "business
> rules".
> some examples:
> Valhalla (routing)  admin.lua (
> https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/admin.lua )
> Valhalla (routing) graph.lua (
> https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/graph.lua )
>
> osm2gsql - openstreetmap-carto.lua
>
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.lua
>
> Regards,
>  Imre
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sören Reinecke via dev  ezt írta (időpont: 2019.
> dec. 5., Cs, 15:59):
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap
>> to make life of data customers easier. Different tagging schemes have
>> emerged since the existence of OpenStreetMap, same are existing in parallel
>> and a newer one deprecated an old one. Data customers without knowing the
>> OSM community much get lost. This project aims to help developers who want
>> to take advantage of the OpenStreetMap great database which is by the way a
>> brilliant project. This project can also help to make tagging in OSM more
>> orthogonal and more hassle free.
>>
>> I saw conflicting interests between OSM community, OSM developers like
>> the iD developers and data customers. A renderer might need data in another
>> way as the community contributes. The community might need another tagging
>> scheme than a renderer. I thought how we can resolve this, how we can get
>> all sites on "one table" and that is the idea I had come up with:
>>
>> A more readable version can be found here:
>> https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md
>> and the principles can be found at
>> https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.md
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Example 1: They want to have the phone number of a POI. There are some
>> problems with this:
>>
>> 1. They need to know both contact:phone and phone to get them all.
>> 2. They need to support them both.
>> 3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI.
>> This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2.
>>
>> Example 2: They want to know how many POI's have changin

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

Hello Jean Marie,> 1. Is all this written in java?The specification itself is written in JSON. The programs which parse the spec and use it can be written in the language of your desire. I personally will write one for python3 and one for _javascript_.> Is there anything going on in Haskell? I’d love to be involved in something using HaskellThere are no plans to do so because I did not write any code yet. As I said programs who use the spec can be written in any language. Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Jean Marie Falisse To: Sören Reinecke ,dev@openstreetmap.orgCC: Hi,Sorry for my, probably stupid, questions.1.  Is all this written in java?2.  Is there anything going on in Haskell? I’d love to be involved in something using Haskell.Thanks for your answer.
Jean Marie FalisseBerensheide, 3B 1170 Watermael-BoitsfortBelgique+32 2 673 32 22+32 479 509899jmfali...@acm.orghttp://member.acm.org/~jmfalisse

Le 6 déc. 2019 à 13:33, Sören Reinecke via dev  a écrit :There are some available options I see:a) Not working on this further.b) Using `tagtransform for OSM` to create an own transformation specification.c) Writing converters which convert from a format to the format of `tagtransform for OSM` and writing converters to convert from the format of `tagtransform for OSM` to another format programs can work with. Using my specification which needs to be extended to create conpactibility among different formats while ensuring that my spec can be used on its own.What do you prefer or do you have another options to add?CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Imre Samu To: Sören Reinecke CC: OSM-Dev Openstreetmap > I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. imho:  we can import some good ideas from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/TagTransform schema .."The tag transform Osmosis plugin allows arbitrary tag transforms to be applied to OSM data as a preprocessing step before using other tools. This allows other tools to concentrate on doing what ever they do, without having to handle numerous different tagging schemes and error corrections."imho:   regexp is useful.probably the "lua" is good glue/meta language - for writing "business rules". some examples:Valhalla (routing)  admin.lua ( https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/admin.lua )Valhalla (routing) graph.lua ( https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/graph.lua )osm2gsql - openstreetmap-carto.luahttps://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.luaRegards, ImreSören Reinecke via dev  ezt írta (időpont: 2019. dec. 5., Cs, 15:59):Hey all,I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. Different tagging schemes have emerged since the existence of OpenStreetMap, same are existing in parallel and a newer one deprecated an old one. Data customers without knowing the OSM community much get lost. This project aims to help developers who want to take advantage of the OpenStreetMap great database which is by the way a brilliant project. This project can also help to make tagging in OSM more orthogonal and more hassle free.I saw conflicting interests between OSM community, OSM developers like the iD developers and data customers. A renderer might need data in another way as the community contributes. The community might need another tagging scheme than a renderer. I thought how we can resolve this, how we can get all sites on "one table" and that is the idea I had come up with:A more readable version can be found here: https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md and the principles can be found at https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.mdExample 1: They want to have the phone number of a POI. There are some problems with this:1. They need to know both contact:phone and phone to get them all.2. They need to support them both.3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2.Example 2: They want to know how many POI's have changing tables (general: facilities for changing a nappy of a baby). There are some problems with this too:1. They need to know both changing_table and the deprecated diaper to get them all.2. They need to support them both. Difficult because they're highly different tagging schemes.3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI5.Example 3: They want to develop a 

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Jean Marie Falisse]

Hi,

Sorry for my, probably stupid, questions.

1.  Is all this written in java?

2.  Is there anything going on in Haskell? I’d love to be involved in something 
using Haskell.

Thanks for your answer.


Jean Marie Falisse
Berensheide, 3
B 1170 Watermael-Boitsfort
Belgique
+32 2 673 32 22
+32 479 509899
jmfali...@acm.org
http://member.acm.org/~jmfalisse

> Le 6 déc. 2019 à 13:33, Sören Reinecke via dev  a 
> écrit :
> 
> There are some available options I see:
> a) Not working on this further.
> b) Using `tagtransform for OSM` to create an own transformation specification.
> c) Writing converters which convert from a format to the format of 
> `tagtransform for OSM` and writing converters to convert from the format of 
> `tagtransform for OSM` to another format programs can work with. Using my 
> specification which needs to be extended to create conpactibility among 
> different formats while ensuring that my spec can be used on its own.
> 
> What do you prefer or do you have another options to add?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
> 
> 
>  Original Message ----
> Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using 
> OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
> From: Imre Samu 
> To: Sören Reinecke 
> CC: OSM-Dev Openstreetmap 
> 
> 
> > I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to 
> > make life of data customers easier. 
> 
> imho:  we can import some good ideas from 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/TagTransform 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/TagTransform> schema ..
> "The tag transform Osmosis plugin allows arbitrary tag transforms to be 
> applied to OSM data as a preprocessing step before using other tools. This 
> allows other tools to concentrate on doing what ever they do, without having 
> to handle numerous different tagging schemes and error corrections."
> imho:   regexp is useful.
> 
> probably the "lua" is good glue/meta language - for writing "business rules". 
> some examples:
> Valhalla (routing)  admin.lua ( 
> https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/admin.lua 
> <https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/admin.lua> )
> Valhalla (routing) graph.lua ( 
> https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/graph.lua 
> <https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/graph.lua> )
> 
> osm2gsql - openstreetmap-carto.lua
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.lua
>  
> <https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.lua>
> 
> Regards,
>  Imre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sören Reinecke via dev mailto:dev@openstreetmap.org>> 
> ezt írta (időpont: 2019. dec. 5., Cs, 15:59):
> Hey all,
> 
> I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to 
> make life of data customers easier. Different tagging schemes have emerged 
> since the existence of OpenStreetMap, same are existing in parallel and a 
> newer one deprecated an old one. Data customers without knowing the OSM 
> community much get lost. This project aims to help developers who want to 
> take advantage of the OpenStreetMap great database which is by the way a 
> brilliant project. This project can also help to make tagging in OSM more 
> orthogonal and more hassle free.
> 
> I saw conflicting interests between OSM community, OSM developers like the iD 
> developers and data customers. A renderer might need data in another way as 
> the community contributes. The community might need another tagging scheme 
> than a renderer. I thought how we can resolve this, how we can get all sites 
> on "one table" and that is the idea I had come up with:
> 
> A more readable version can be found here: 
> https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md
>  
> <https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md>
>  and the principles can be found at 
> https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.md
>  
> <https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.md>
> 
> 
> 
> Example 1: They want to have the phone number of a POI. There are some 
> problems with this:
> 
> 1. They need to know both contact:phone and phone to get them all.
> 2. They need to support them both.
> 3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This 
> really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2 
> <http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2>.
> 
> Example 2: They want to k

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - An effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

There are some available options I see:a) Not working on this further.b) Using `tagtransform for OSM` to create an own transformation specification.c) Writing converters which convert from a format to the format of `tagtransform for OSM` and writing converters to convert from the format of `tagtransform for OSM` to another format programs can work with. Using my specification which needs to be extended to create conpactibility among different formats while ensuring that my spec can be used on its own.What do you prefer or do you have another options to add?CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Imre Samu To: Sören Reinecke CC: OSM-Dev Openstreetmap > I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. imho:  we can import some good ideas from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/TagTransform schema .."The tag transform Osmosis plugin allows arbitrary tag transforms to be applied to OSM data as a preprocessing step before using other tools. This allows other tools to concentrate on doing what ever they do, without having to handle numerous different tagging schemes and error corrections."imho:   regexp is useful.probably the "lua" is good glue/meta language - for writing "business rules". some examples:Valhalla (routing)  admin.lua ( https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/admin.lua )Valhalla (routing) graph.lua ( https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/graph.lua )osm2gsql - openstreetmap-carto.luahttps://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.luaRegards, ImreSören Reinecke via dev  ezt írta (időpont: 2019. dec. 5., Cs, 15:59):Hey all,I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. Different tagging schemes have emerged since the existence of OpenStreetMap, same are existing in parallel and a newer one deprecated an old one. Data customers without knowing the OSM community much get lost. This project aims to help developers who want to take advantage of the OpenStreetMap great database which is by the way a brilliant project. This project can also help to make tagging in OSM more orthogonal and more hassle free.I saw conflicting interests between OSM community, OSM developers like the iD developers and data customers. A renderer might need data in another way as the community contributes. The community might need another tagging scheme than a renderer. I thought how we can resolve this, how we can get all sites on "one table" and that is the idea I had come up with:A more readable version can be found here: https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md and the principles can be found at https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.mdExample 1: They want to have the phone number of a POI. There are some problems with this:1. They need to know both contact:phone and phone to get them all.2. They need to support them both.3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2.Example 2: They want to know how many POI's have changing tables (general: facilities for changing a nappy of a baby). There are some problems with this too:1. They need to know both changing_table and the deprecated diaper to get them all.2. They need to support them both. Difficult because they're highly different tagging schemes.3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI5.Example 3: They want to develop a mapping tool and want to correct wrong typed in tags. There are some problems with that:1. They need to know all possible tagging schemes existing for one purpose (e.g. mapping facilities for changing the nappy of a baby).2. They need to know the right/approved/more logical scheme.3. They need to know how to convert:diaper=yesdiaper:female=yesbecomes after the transformation:changing_table=yeschanging_table:location=female_toiletBasically it bridges the OSM community and developers together, it might even resolve the conflict between iD developers and the community.The project bridges different worlds and is therefore a bridge. As bridge this project should not just connect different worlds together and by ensuring peace between those but also support exchange between those to develop a social economy of  "send and receive" This project should support the "come together" of (OSM) developers and mappers.I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to shame to ask questions. My answers will be part of the clarification of the project "tagtransform for 

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Imre Samu]

> I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap
to make life of data customers easier.

imho:  we can import some good ideas from
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/TagTransform schema ..
*"The tag transform Osmosis plugin allows arbitrary tag transforms to be
applied to OSM data as a preprocessing step before using other tools. This
allows other tools to concentrate on doing what ever they do, without
having to handle numerous different tagging schemes and error corrections."*
imho:   regexp is useful.

probably the "lua" is good glue/meta language - for writing "business
rules".
some examples:
Valhalla (routing)  admin.lua (
https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/admin.lua )
Valhalla (routing) graph.lua (
https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/graph.lua )

osm2gsql - openstreetmap-carto.lua
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.lua

Regards,
 Imre







Sören Reinecke via dev  ezt írta (időpont: 2019.
dec. 5., Cs, 15:59):

> Hey all,
>
> I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to
> make life of data customers easier. Different tagging schemes have emerged
> since the existence of OpenStreetMap, same are existing in parallel and a
> newer one deprecated an old one. Data customers without knowing the OSM
> community much get lost. This project aims to help developers who want to
> take advantage of the OpenStreetMap great database which is by the way a
> brilliant project. This project can also help to make tagging in OSM more
> orthogonal and more hassle free.
>
> I saw conflicting interests between OSM community, OSM developers like the
> iD developers and data customers. A renderer might need data in another way
> as the community contributes. The community might need another tagging
> scheme than a renderer. I thought how we can resolve this, how we can get
> all sites on "one table" and that is the idea I had come up with:
>
> A more readable version can be found here:
> https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md
> and the principles can be found at
> https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.md
>
>
> --
>
> Example 1: They want to have the phone number of a POI. There are some
> problems with this:
>
> 1. They need to know both contact:phone and phone to get them all.
> 2. They need to support them both.
> 3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI.
> This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2.
>
> Example 2: They want to know how many POI's have changing tables (general:
> facilities for changing a nappy of a baby). There are some problems with
> this too:
>
> 1. They need to know both changing_table and the deprecated diaper to
> get them all.
> 2. They need to support them both. Difficult because they're highly
> different tagging schemes.
> 3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI.
> This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI5.
>
> Example 3: They want to develop a mapping tool and want to correct wrong
> typed in tags. There are some problems with that:
>
> 1. They need to know all possible tagging schemes existing for one
> purpose (e.g. mapping facilities for changing the nappy of a baby).
> 2. They need to know the right/approved/more logical scheme.
> 3. They need to know how to convert:
>
>  diaper=yes
>  diaper:female=yes
>
> becomes after the transformation:
>
> changing_table=yes
> changing_table:location=female_toilet
>
>
> --
>
> Basically it bridges the OSM community and developers together, it might
> even resolve the conflict between iD developers and the community.
>
> The project bridges different worlds and is therefore a bridge. As bridge
> this project should not just connect different worlds together and by
> ensuring peace between those but also support exchange between those to
> develop a social economy of  "send and receive" This project should support
> the "come together" of (OSM) developers and mappers.
>
>
> *I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to shame to ask
> questions. My answers will be part of the clarification of the project
> "tagtransform for OSM".*
>
> Cheers
>
> Sören Reinecke alias ValorNaram
>
> ___
> dev mailing list
> dev@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
___
dev mailing list
dev@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

> what issue was it that you hit that led you to conclude that (initially) tag homogenisation for specific tags was a goal worth pursuing, followed by the initiative to create a "master list of "tag X means the same as Y"? The situation of that I needed to support both `diaper` and `changing_table` led me to that idea.> That's a shame.Oh sorry, that's not currently my goal but it can be to build an universal specification to convert between different formattings. See also my latest answer of the quote I was answering to, where I draw the options which are available to me. Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Andy Townsend To: Sören Reinecke ,dev@openstreetmap.orgCC: On 05/12/2019 19:24, Sören Reinecke wrote:>> > Are you planning to make something that can be integrated directly > into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).?>> No, this is not my aim.>That's a shame.  It looks like you're trying to solve the part of the problem that isn't really much of  a problem (see Richard's most recent email on the tagging list, amongst others) but not addressing the bit that actually doesn't have a good solution right now.Turning the question round slightly, while still trying to keep it relevant for the dev list - what issue was it that you hit that led you to conclude that (initially) tag homogenisation for specific tags was a goal worth pursuing, followed by the initiative to create a "master list of "tag X means the same as Y"?Best Regards,Andy___
dev mailing list
dev@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Andy Townsend]

On 05/12/2019 19:24, Sören Reinecke wrote:


> Are you planning to make something that can be integrated directly 
into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).?


No, this is not my aim.

That's a shame.  It looks like you're trying to solve the part of the 
problem that isn't really much of  a problem (see Richard's most recent 
email on the tagging list, amongst others) but not addressing the bit 
that actually doesn't have a good solution right now.


Turning the question round slightly, while still trying to keep it 
relevant for the dev list - what issue was it that you hit that led you 
to conclude that (initially) tag homogenisation for specific tags was a 
goal worth pursuing, followed by the initiative to create a "master list 
of "tag X means the same as Y"?


Best Regards,

Andy


___
dev mailing list
dev@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

> At your github repository it looks like you're planning to store an explicit list of "tag X means the same as tag Y".  Is this going to be stored project by project so that you can say "project A thinks that tag X means the same as tag Y but project B does not"?Yes but I didn't resolve the question about how to find out which JSON file to take. This is currently a problem I have to solve. But the idea is that to influence tagging and to preprocess data for customers and to differentiate between groups.> Are you planning to make something that can be integrated directly into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).?No, this is not my aim.> What would be really useful, actually, would be a way to re-use the same tag transformation definition used in one place in others as well*.Is possible by using so-called reference ids.>  I might render a whole series of shops exactly the same but think that guest houses and bed-and-breakfast places ought to have different representations, but someone else might do the opposite.The specification allows the use of an own specification JSON.> I'd actually like to be able to do the same generic transformations from mkgmap as well.With scripts it is possible to convert to my specification and than from my specification to others. But this needs knowleadge in how the other formattings are interpreted.> The technicalities of how to invoke a tag transformation between one set of values and another in, say, osm2pgsql, mkgmap or osmand.This is what is good for data developers. I want also to simplify mapping by making it possible to handle short version of keys: `phone` --> `contact:phone`. Building a bridge that almost all sites find useful is my goal.> So that's the big question really - what are you planning to do to integrate what you're doing here with the existing toolchains?I wasn't aware of such bunch of tools that might be hard to maintain. To maintain compactibility to them we can do convertions. We can of course first start with writing compactibility layers to translate between those. The easiest way to do that would be to develop an universal specification (using and extending the specification I wrote)'CheersSören Reinecke Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Andy Townsend To: dev@openstreetmap.orgCC: 
  
  
On 05/12/2019 14:50, Sören Reinecke via
  dev wrote:


  
  I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in
OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. 

Firstly, thanks for trying to make the lives of people trying to
  do things with OSM data easier!
Obviously there are two bits to this:

  The technicalities of how to invoke a tag transformation
between one set of values and another in, say, osm2pgsql, mkgmap
or osmand.
  
  The actual set of values to be used in a particular case.

I can think of lots of examples of (1) - among the most
  well-known is the lua interface from osm2pgsql.  Are you planning
  to make something that can be integrated directly into that (or
  mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).?
What a particular data consumer would use for (2) will likely
  vary case by case.  For example, I might render a whole series of
  shops exactly the same but think that guest houses and
  bed-and-breakfast places ought to have different representations,
  but someone else might do the opposite.
At your github repository it looks like you're planning to store
  an explicit list of "tag X means the same as tag Y".  Is this
  going to be stored project by project so that you can say "project
  A thinks that tag X means the same as tag Y but project B does
  not"?



  
  
  I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to
  shame to ask questions. My answers will be part of the
  clarification of the project "tagtransform for OSM".
  
  
  

What would be really useful, actually, would be a way to re-use
  the same tag transformation definition used in one place in others
  as well*.  

For example over at
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L49
  I have a lump of lua code that does generic tag transforms.  It's
  called from a couple of other places in there which are called in
  turn from osm2pgsql - the documentation for that is at
  https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/blob/master/docs/lua.md
  . 

 I'd actually like to be able to do the same generic
  transformations from mkgmap as well.  Currently mkgmap's
  transformations are handled by files such as

Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Andy Townsend]

On 05/12/2019 14:50, Sören Reinecke via dev wrote:
I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in 
OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier.


Firstly, thanks for trying to make the lives of people trying to do 
things with OSM data easier!


Obviously there are two bits to this:

1. The technicalities of how to invoke a tag transformation between one
   set of values and another in, say, osm2pgsql, mkgmap or osmand.
2. The actual set of values to be used in a particular case.

I can think of lots of examples of (1) - among the most well-known is 
the lua interface from osm2pgsql.  Are you planning to make something 
that can be integrated directly into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).?


What a particular data consumer would use for (2) will likely vary case 
by case.  For example, I might render a whole series of shops exactly 
the same but think that guest houses and bed-and-breakfast places ought 
to have different representations, but someone else might do the opposite.


At your github repository it looks like you're planning to store an 
explicit list of "tag X means the same as tag Y".  Is this going to be 
stored project by project so that you can say "project A thinks that tag 
X means the same as tag Y but project B does not"?





*I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to shame to 
ask questions. My answers will be part of the clarification of the 
project "tagtransform for OSM".*



What would be really useful, actually, would be a way to re-use the same 
tag transformation definition used in one place in others as well*.


For example over at 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L49 
I have a lump of lua code that does generic tag transforms.  It's called 
from a couple of other places in there which are called in turn from 
osm2pgsql - the documentation for that is at 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/blob/master/docs/lua.md .


I'd actually like to be able to do the same generic transformations from 
mkgmap as well.  Currently mkgmap's transformations are handled by files 
such as 
http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=mkgmap=%2Ftrunk%2Fresources%2Fstyles%2Fdefault%2Fpoints=4384 
- in there you can see OSM tags and values and the Garmin symbols that 
they get turned into.  What this would technically need is a way of 
calling lua from java (stackoverflow suggests that various options 
exist, but "some assembly would be needed") and then document the 
calling interface so that it'd be easy for people to modify their 
existing lua tag transforms to work from there too.


Osmand's a bit more complicated - the equivalent tag transform 
definition is 
https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd-resources/blob/master/obf_creation/rendering_types.xml 
(see http://osmand.net/help/docs/Custom_Rendering_How-To.htm for a bit 
more information), but that file is a bit of a monster and seems to 
handle several jobs at the same time.  Another option would be call out 
to a lua tag transform before throwing the result at 
"rendering_types.xml" and the display style "default.render.xml".


So that's the big question really - what are you planning to do to 
integrate what you're doing here with the existing toolchains?


Best Regards,

Andy


* not in any way an original idea by me.

** three example just off the top of my head.  Other data consumers will 
be able to think of others in other toolchains.


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[OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together

[Sören Reinecke via dev]

Hey all,
I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap
to make life of data customers easier. Different tagging schemes have
emerged since the existence of OpenStreetMap, same are existing in
parallel and a newer one deprecated an old one. Data customers without
knowing the OSM community much get lost. This project aims to help
developers who want to take advantage of the OpenStreetMap great
database which is by the way a brilliant project. This project can also
help to make tagging in OSM more orthogonal and more hassle free.
I saw conflicting interests between OSM community, OSM developers like
the iD developers and data customers. A renderer might need data in
another way as the community contributes. The community might need
another tagging scheme than a renderer. I thought how we can resolve
this, how we can get all sites on "one table" and that is the idea I
had come up with:
A more readable version can be found here: 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md
and the principles can be found at 
https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.md

Example 1: They want to have the phone number of a POI. There are some
problems with this:
1. They need to know both contact:phone and phone to get them
all.2. They need to support them both.3. They need to remove
one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This really happens, see 
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2.
Example 2: They want to know how many POI's have changing tables
(general: facilities for changing a nappy of a baby). There are some
problems with this too:
1. They need to know both changing_table and the deprecated diaper
to get them all.2. They need to support them both. Difficult
because they're highly different tagging schemes.3. They need to
remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This really
happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI5.
Example 3: They want to develop a mapping tool and want to correct
wrong typed in tags. There are some problems with that:
1. They need to know all possible tagging schemes existing for one
purpose (e.g. mapping facilities for changing the nappy of a
baby).2. They need to know the right/approved/more logical
scheme.3. They need to know how to convert:
diaper=yesdiaper:female=yes
becomes after the transformation:
changing_table=yeschanging_table:location=female_toilet


Basically it bridges the OSM community and developers together, it
might even resolve the conflict between iD developers and the
community.
> The project bridges different worlds and is therefore a bridge.
> As bridge this project should not just connect different worlds
> together and by ensuring peace between those but also support
> exchange between those to develop a social economy of  "send and
> receive" This project should support the "come together" of (OSM)
> developers and mappers.

I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to shame to ask
questions. My answers will be part of the clarification of the project
"tagtransform for OSM".
Cheers
S??ren Reinecke alias ValorNaram

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