Re: Anything I could do to help?

[Marko Rodriguez]

Yo,

> I agree that the PMC is not about management in the sense you are speaking,
> but nor is it a technical body...

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Robot, for explaining.

>> it seems you are doing little to attract talented contributors
> 
> That's a point we've not discussed enough. You've mentioned a number of
> reasons why you think we haven't attracted fresh talent. I'd wonder if
> there are others to consider as well.

So if in the last 3 years no one new and exciting has come along, why in the 
hell would you witch hunt me — especially for something so stopid as a 
picture of my chicken wearing a WW2 outfit? Are you people this weak minded 
that you find something this 'off the wall' ridiculous to be “hurtful” and 
“shameful”? You think that sort of mindset yields a fountain of creative 
thinking? Where do you think my ideas have come from all these years — acting 
like everyone else? Jesus man, grow up and smell the roses, you turn a blind 
eye at the meat factory.

> Do we have a clear direction for the
> future that new people can find a connection to and be excited about? Is
> the code base approachable for someone who is looking at it for the first
> time? Have the long maintenance cycles on release lines of recent years
> helped users but not excited nor enticed potential contributors hoping to
> be more on the forefront of bigger changes?

Over the last 3 years, I've seen GremlinServer connection 
pool/threading/configuration stuff and test suite refactoring as the big 
majors. Yes, getting your GremlinServer code dope is important for users, but 
test suites — users don’t care. What they want to see is “what is next?” How 
does graph take over as the predominate data structure ESPECIALLY against the 
pressure to abandon NoSQL as BigData falls to the wayside and competition in 
the market dries up. If I’m a user, I’m thinking: MySQL. Why deal with headache 
of a technology space where the alpha dogs got fed up and left, the monopolies 
are sitting on a heap of code they can’t find free labor to maintain/advance, 
and OSS organizations like Apache are twiddling their thumbs talking about 
‘racism’ and ’sexism’ instead of making Apache a breeding ground for novelty 
and intellectual excellence.

There is so much to be done on TinkerPop and much of those ideas were advanced 
in mm-ADT: dynamic runtime parameterization of pipeline arguments, a bytecode 
that can be reasoned on, a VM architecture that can support a wide swathe of 
execution engines (not just the outdated OLAP/OLTP distinction of TP3), a 
unification of the graph data structure processes with other data structures 
such as list, map, etc., a compiler that isn’t as fickle as (though wonderful 
for its time) strategies, …

Maintaining code is super important and I thank you for handling it while I was 
on sabbatical and developing these ideas in mm-ADT, but now the project is 
stagnating, idle, with an ominous “we seek and destroy ‘racists’!!!”-vibe 
hovering over it. No intelligent human being with a creative spirit will be 
inclined to support TinkerPop and that is why you are left adding “career men” 
to the PMC thinking more about their resume than actually doing real work. And 
that is a vicious downward spiral  — a whole bunch of chiefs and not enough 
Indians. <— OH NO! RACISM! AAAH!
 
Outz,
Marko.

> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 1:18 PM Marko Rodriguez  >
> wrote:
> 
>> Understood. However, it seems you are doing little (if not in willful
>> opposition) to attract talented contributors. The PMC has replaced
>> non-corporate (those unbridled by common thought) with corporate minded
>> individuals who boast about contributing but don’t or have contributed in
>> the past but have aged out of performing at that level. Now you may argue
>> that the PMC is about “management,” but can you really say that with an
>> honest face given how little the PMC actually did for all those years
>> (meaning private@ has maybe 5 non-VOTE email conversations on it)? Next,
>> when it is publicly known that Apache TinkerPop kicks off PMC members who
>> don’t live according to “corporate norms” (completely separate from their
>> role at TinkerPop), can you honestly say that this inspires potential
>> talent to risk contributing their time and energy only to be judge for who
>> they are and how they act in a world ruled by this inane concept of
>> ‘canceling’ that even your own PMC members (Josh) speak of nonchalantly as
>> if its a natural state of the human condition and not some aberration of
>> the fear and despair people feel as competition is being killed out of our
>> dying industry by ‘inclusive and diverse' organizations like Apache who
>> have forced you to enact mental gymnastics in order to demonize your own
>> teammates? Do you honestly believe talent is found in this world you have
>> positioned yourself in? Talent lives in the young, fresh faced rebels who
>> created our industry in the first place and 

Re: Anything I could do to help?

[Stephen Mallette]

> Now you may argue that the PMC is about “management,” but can you really
say that with an honest face given how little the PMC actually did for all
those years

I agree that the PMC is not about management in the sense you are speaking,
but nor is it a technical body. It serves a small handful of functions, the
primary of which is releasing code. Without three active members who take
the time to vote, no release can go out the door and the project becomes
fodder for the attic. The PMC should be having few conversations within
itself and those conversations that occur typically restrict themselves to
security issues, brand management and nominating new contributors. As those
are generally rare events as a whole, the PMC life of management is a quiet
one as you describe.

> it seems you are doing little to attract talented contributors

That's a point we've not discussed enough. You've mentioned a number of
reasons why you think we haven't attracted fresh talent. I'd wonder if
there are others to consider as well. Do we have a clear direction for the
future that new people can find a connection to and be excited about? Is
the code base approachable for someone who is looking at it for the first
time? Have the long maintenance cycles on release lines of recent years
helped users but not excited nor enticed potential contributors hoping to
be more on the forefront of bigger changes?



On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 1:18 PM Marko Rodriguez 
wrote:

> Understood. However, it seems you are doing little (if not in willful
> opposition) to attract talented contributors. The PMC has replaced
> non-corporate (those unbridled by common thought) with corporate minded
> individuals who boast about contributing but don’t or have contributed in
> the past but have aged out of performing at that level. Now you may argue
> that the PMC is about “management,” but can you really say that with an
> honest face given how little the PMC actually did for all those years
> (meaning private@ has maybe 5 non-VOTE email conversations on it)? Next,
> when it is publicly known that Apache TinkerPop kicks off PMC members who
> don’t live according to “corporate norms” (completely separate from their
> role at TinkerPop), can you honestly say that this inspires potential
> talent to risk contributing their time and energy only to be judge for who
> they are and how they act in a world ruled by this inane concept of
> ‘canceling’ that even your own PMC members (Josh) speak of nonchalantly as
> if its a natural state of the human condition and not some aberration of
> the fear and despair people feel as competition is being killed out of our
> dying industry by ‘inclusive and diverse' organizations like Apache who
> have forced you to enact mental gymnastics in order to demonize your own
> teammates? Do you honestly believe talent is found in this world you have
> positioned yourself in? Talent lives in the young, fresh faced rebels who
> created our industry in the first place and without the quirky blog posts,
> the thought provoking technological advances, and the triumph of beauty
> over conformity, you will not find talent, only the droning on of the
> nothingness that has becomes this once great project. A project within an
> organization that has gone completely against the doctrines of Apache by
> being exclusive, desirous of a monoculture meant to halt innovation and
> stagnate progress much like what such thinking did to the automobile
> industry of the olden generation...
>
> Thoughts?,
> Marko.
>
> > On Sep 10, 2021, at 4:01 PM, Stephen Mallette 
> wrote:
> >
> > Marko, I agree with your assertion that the project needs innovation and
> > talented contributors to continue to thrive. It needs that as much as it
> > needs stability and reliability for the users who depend on it today.
> > Obviously, things can't quite be as they were, but perhaps they can
> become
> > something new.
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 6:34 PM Marko Rodriguez  > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi guys/gals,
> >>
> >> Looks like it’s just been Stephen nick-nacking away again as it’s been
> the
> >> last few years. Given the recent big turnover in management, I was
> hoping
> >> to eat my own words and see some performance out of Josh, but
> unfortunately
> >> as given the last 15+ years, 'talk and walk’ (which is even worse than
> >> ‘commit and split’). Given that Amazon Neptune is including openCypher
> in
> >> their distribution and with Neo4j just took in a whomping $300+ million
> in
> >> a Series , seems Apache TinkerPop will be falling to the
> >> wayside unless some real innovation happens.
> >>
> >> As such, perhaps I could offer a helping hand given my intimate
> knowledge
> >> of the codebase and my master of the theory and history of graph
> computing
> >> that I helped formulate over the last 15 years. With that said, I
> >> completely understand if y’all need to hold to the narrative that I’m a
> >> “Nazi racist” and thus, 

Re: Anything I could do to help?

[Marko Rodriguez]

Understood. However, it seems you are doing little (if not in willful 
opposition) to attract talented contributors. The PMC has replaced 
non-corporate (those unbridled by common thought) with corporate minded 
individuals who boast about contributing but don’t or have contributed in the 
past but have aged out of performing at that level. Now you may argue that the 
PMC is about “management,” but can you really say that with an honest face 
given how little the PMC actually did for all those years (meaning private@ has 
maybe 5 non-VOTE email conversations on it)? Next, when it is publicly known 
that Apache TinkerPop kicks off PMC members who don’t live according to 
“corporate norms” (completely separate from their role at TinkerPop), can you 
honestly say that this inspires potential talent to risk contributing their 
time and energy only to be judge for who they are and how they act in a world 
ruled by this inane concept of ‘canceling’ that even your own PMC members 
(Josh) speak of nonchalantly as if its a natural state of the human condition 
and not some aberration of the fear and despair people feel as competition is 
being killed out of our dying industry by ‘inclusive and diverse' organizations 
like Apache who have forced you to enact mental gymnastics in order to demonize 
your own teammates? Do you honestly believe talent is found in this world you 
have positioned yourself in? Talent lives in the young, fresh faced rebels who 
created our industry in the first place and without the quirky blog posts, the 
thought provoking technological advances, and the triumph of beauty over 
conformity, you will not find talent, only the droning on of the nothingness 
that has becomes this once great project. A project within an organization that 
has gone completely against the doctrines of Apache by being exclusive, 
desirous of a monoculture meant to halt innovation and stagnate progress much 
like what such thinking did to the automobile industry of the olden 
generation... 

Thoughts?,
Marko.

> On Sep 10, 2021, at 4:01 PM, Stephen Mallette  wrote:
> 
> Marko, I agree with your assertion that the project needs innovation and
> talented contributors to continue to thrive. It needs that as much as it
> needs stability and reliability for the users who depend on it today.
> Obviously, things can't quite be as they were, but perhaps they can become
> something new.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 6:34 PM Marko Rodriguez  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi guys/gals,
>> 
>> Looks like it’s just been Stephen nick-nacking away again as it’s been the
>> last few years. Given the recent big turnover in management, I was hoping
>> to eat my own words and see some performance out of Josh, but unfortunately
>> as given the last 15+ years, 'talk and walk’ (which is even worse than
>> ‘commit and split’). Given that Amazon Neptune is including openCypher in
>> their distribution and with Neo4j just took in a whomping $300+ million in
>> a Series , seems Apache TinkerPop will be falling to the
>> wayside unless some real innovation happens.
>> 
>> As such, perhaps I could offer a helping hand given my intimate knowledge
>> of the codebase and my master of the theory and history of graph computing
>> that I helped formulate over the last 15 years. With that said, I
>> completely understand if y’all need to hold to the narrative that I’m a
>> “Nazi racist” and thus, unworthy of contributing (after all, the "Nazi
>> code" I wrote over a decade has proven how detrimental ‘racism’ has been to
>> the integrity of the software). However, on the other hand, if y’all have
>> moved past such trivial concepts of ‘good and evil’, perhaps we can get
>> TinkerPop movin' again.
>> 
>> Take care mein comrades,
>> Marko.
>> 
>> http://markorodriguez.com  
>> >

Re: Anything I could do to help?

[Stephen Mallette]

Marko, I agree with your assertion that the project needs innovation and
talented contributors to continue to thrive. It needs that as much as it
needs stability and reliability for the users who depend on it today.
Obviously, things can't quite be as they were, but perhaps they can become
something new.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 6:34 PM Marko Rodriguez  wrote:

> Hi guys/gals,
>
> Looks like it’s just been Stephen nick-nacking away again as it’s been the
> last few years. Given the recent big turnover in management, I was hoping
> to eat my own words and see some performance out of Josh, but unfortunately
> as given the last 15+ years, 'talk and walk’ (which is even worse than
> ‘commit and split’). Given that Amazon Neptune is including openCypher in
> their distribution and with Neo4j just took in a whomping $300+ million in
> a Series , seems Apache TinkerPop will be falling to the
> wayside unless some real innovation happens.
>
> As such, perhaps I could offer a helping hand given my intimate knowledge
> of the codebase and my master of the theory and history of graph computing
> that I helped formulate over the last 15 years. With that said, I
> completely understand if y’all need to hold to the narrative that I’m a
> “Nazi racist” and thus, unworthy of contributing (after all, the "Nazi
> code" I wrote over a decade has proven how detrimental ‘racism’ has been to
> the integrity of the software). However, on the other hand, if y’all have
> moved past such trivial concepts of ‘good and evil’, perhaps we can get
> TinkerPop movin' again.
>
> Take care mein comrades,
> Marko.
>
> http://markorodriguez.com 
>
>
>

Re: Anything I could do to help?

[Marko Rodriguez]

Self-cancel? What does that mean. I was going about my business and Apache gave 
some fellow ‘danielfb' access to our private@tinkerpop mailing list. He said he 
was offended by a picture I posted on Twitter where I dressed up one of my 
chickens in WW2 paraphernalia. What that had to do with Apache, I don’t know. 
However Stephen didn’t seem to stand up for his long time collaborator and just 
acted as if everything would go away (Stephen has always had a ‘ostrich head in 
the sand’-type of approach to life for as long as I’ve known him). Continuing, 
it then happened that ‘danielfb’ wasn’t able to get support for getting me 
kicked off from TinkerPop (no one on the PMC cared about some random goofy 
Twitter picture), so Apache decided to say “well if Marko’s colleagues aren’t 
going to say he is a Nazi racist, then we are!” and they decided to step over 
TinkerPop and have me removed from the project. Next, notice that the TinkerPop 
PMC has gone completely quiet. Where is Kuppitz? Where is The Baptist? … It’s 
just become Stephen idling about on the codebase that hasn’t seen any major 
innovation in years… Where is any of his help?

So, not self-cancel, but Apache-cancel.
And ‘crazy’ is how you want to call it, cause arguably you are the craziest one 
of us all with the life choices you’ve made that constantly leave you high and 
dry (Aspergers in a son-of-a-gun especially in this highly social world), but I 
digress — the danielfb situation seems crazy.

Since you are now on the TinkerPop PMC, could you inquire as to who this 
‘danielfb’ fellow is and why he was given access to our private mailing list? 
Moreover, can you inquire as to why a picture I posted on Twitter had anything 
to do with Apache? I asked these questions but I was ignored by the Apache 
Board. They were quick to remove my email address from all the internal mailing 
lists.

Getting to the bottom of these problems would be beneficial as there are some 
dangling issues that should be resolved to determine whether Apache is a 
legitimate OSS organization or a “committee by whim” pushing ideologies and 
making sure people behave according to some unwritten agendas. There was a 
fellow on gremlin-users@ that hinted at such failings of Apache.

I appreciate your time. Hope you will get around to accomplishing good work for 
TinkerPop,
Marko.

http://markorodriguez.com 






> On Sep 7, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Joshua Shinavier  wrote:
> 
> Marko, I doubt anyone thinks you're actually a Nazi racist. Why you chose
> to self-cancel like that, the world may never know, but you might have
> shown more consideration toward those who wanted to support you in spite of
> all the craziness. I don't see us working together so soon after these
> weird rants on the dev list, but I won't speak for anyone else. You're
> still a TinkerPop contributor. Go ahead and do something.
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 3:34 PM Marko Rodriguez  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi guys/gals,
>> 
>> Looks like it’s just been Stephen nick-nacking away again as it’s been the
>> last few years. Given the recent big turnover in management, I was hoping
>> to eat my own words and see some performance out of Josh, but unfortunately
>> as given the last 15+ years, 'talk and walk’ (which is even worse than
>> ‘commit and split’). Given that Amazon Neptune is including openCypher in
>> their distribution and with Neo4j just took in a whomping $300+ million in
>> a Series , seems Apache TinkerPop will be falling to the
>> wayside unless some real innovation happens.
>> 
>> As such, perhaps I could offer a helping hand given my intimate knowledge
>> of the codebase and my master of the theory and history of graph computing
>> that I helped formulate over the last 15 years. With that said, I
>> completely understand if y’all need to hold to the narrative that I’m a
>> “Nazi racist” and thus, unworthy of contributing (after all, the "Nazi
>> code" I wrote over a decade has proven how detrimental ‘racism’ has been to
>> the integrity of the software). However, on the other hand, if y’all have
>> moved past such trivial concepts of ‘good and evil’, perhaps we can get
>> TinkerPop movin' again.
>> 
>> Take care mein comrades,
>> Marko.
>> 
>> http://markorodriguez.com  
>> >

Re: Anything I could do to help?

[Joshua Shinavier]

Marko, I doubt anyone thinks you're actually a Nazi racist. Why you chose
to self-cancel like that, the world may never know, but you might have
shown more consideration toward those who wanted to support you in spite of
all the craziness. I don't see us working together so soon after these
weird rants on the dev list, but I won't speak for anyone else. You're
still a TinkerPop contributor. Go ahead and do something.

Josh





On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 3:34 PM Marko Rodriguez  wrote:

> Hi guys/gals,
>
> Looks like it’s just been Stephen nick-nacking away again as it’s been the
> last few years. Given the recent big turnover in management, I was hoping
> to eat my own words and see some performance out of Josh, but unfortunately
> as given the last 15+ years, 'talk and walk’ (which is even worse than
> ‘commit and split’). Given that Amazon Neptune is including openCypher in
> their distribution and with Neo4j just took in a whomping $300+ million in
> a Series , seems Apache TinkerPop will be falling to the
> wayside unless some real innovation happens.
>
> As such, perhaps I could offer a helping hand given my intimate knowledge
> of the codebase and my master of the theory and history of graph computing
> that I helped formulate over the last 15 years. With that said, I
> completely understand if y’all need to hold to the narrative that I’m a
> “Nazi racist” and thus, unworthy of contributing (after all, the "Nazi
> code" I wrote over a decade has proven how detrimental ‘racism’ has been to
> the integrity of the software). However, on the other hand, if y’all have
> moved past such trivial concepts of ‘good and evil’, perhaps we can get
> TinkerPop movin' again.
>
> Take care mein comrades,
> Marko.
>
> http://markorodriguez.com 
>
>
>

Anything I could do to help?

[Marko Rodriguez]

Hi guys/gals,

Looks like it’s just been Stephen nick-nacking away again as it’s been the last 
few years. Given the recent big turnover in management, I was hoping to eat my 
own words and see some performance out of Josh, but unfortunately as given the 
last 15+ years, 'talk and walk’ (which is even worse than ‘commit and split’). 
Given that Amazon Neptune is including openCypher in their distribution and 
with Neo4j just took in a whomping $300+ million in a Series , 
seems Apache TinkerPop will be falling to the wayside unless some real 
innovation happens.

As such, perhaps I could offer a helping hand given my intimate knowledge of 
the codebase and my master of the theory and history of graph computing that I 
helped formulate over the last 15 years. With that said, I completely 
understand if y’all need to hold to the narrative that I’m a “Nazi racist” and 
thus, unworthy of contributing (after all, the "Nazi code" I wrote over a 
decade has proven how detrimental ‘racism’ has been to the integrity of the 
software). However, on the other hand, if y’all have moved past such trivial 
concepts of ‘good and evil’, perhaps we can get TinkerPop movin' again.

Take care mein comrades,
Marko.

http://markorodriguez.com